Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Panda-NZ-]

5/ There have demonstrably been wealthy people throughout human history, and for thousands of years before Marx came up with his bonkers theories of ‘class warfare’.

7/ The man who grew extra grain and sold it at a profit was the worlds first entrepreneur. The man who grew less grain and attacked his neighbour out of envy was the world’s first communist.

The tribune of the plebs was powerful in ancient rome. Emperors came up with free bread and entertainment (bread and circuses)..

The wealthy had alot of privilege, including owning slaves. But they were often killed off if they became a threat or an emperor simply needed their money to replenish the roman (or their own) treasury so it wasn't as safe as it is today.

[Daytr]

The Left are running riot in this thread, posting chapter and verse about ‘neoliberalism’ as if the sheer weight of words can drown out basic reason and logic. I’ll answer their vast outpouring of posts with a few simple truths restated -

1/ Humans are by their nature competitive.
2/ ‘Neoliberalism’ simply means less regulation / less state control / less state ownership of businesses.
3/ ‘Fairness’ is impossible to define, as one persons ‘fair’ is another persons ‘unfair’.
4/ ‘Social justice’ is impossible to define, and moreover appears manifestly unjust from any rational perspective: there is nothing ‘just’ about taking from the productive, or those who staked their own capital on a venture when the eventual outcome was unknown, and giving to the indolent and the unproductive.
5/ There have demonstrably been wealthy people throughout human history, and for thousands of years before Marx came up with his bonkers theories of ‘class warfare’.
6/ ‘Trickle down’ should simply mean than a more affluent society will have higher living standards than a poorer one.
7/ The man who grew extra grain and sold it at a profit was the worlds first entrepreneur. The man who grew less grain and attacked his neighbour out of envy was the world’s first communist.
8/ There has never been a successful communist state in human history, and they have all become totalitarian.
9/ You can vote your way into socialism, but - as the people of Venezuela have discovered - you have to shoot your way out of it.
10/ Leftism is predicated on unrealistic idealism and utopian fantasies.

What an over simplification of a complex issue.
As Bjauck points out Logen Ninefingers fails to mentions the revolutions throughout the world in the 19th & early 20th centuries. Perhaps he has forgotten the line "let them eat cake" which I bet Marie-Antionette regretted when facing the guillotine.

Neoliberalism has seen state owned assets sold for a discounted value to line the pockets of the already wealthy.

I find it incredible that the coalition government is now complaining about the power generation and retailers when National went against the results of a referendum and sold half what was tax payer owned.

Neoliberalism has also seen the under funding of infrastructure, health and education for decades and then the previous National & current Government want to partly privatize some of these services, which again only the already well off will be able to afford.

Speaking of cake, Mark Mitchell took it when arguing for a public / private partnership gor a police station in Auckland CBD.
What's next mercenaries patrolling the streets?

[iceman]

I find it incredible that the coalition government is now complaining about the power generation and retailers when National went against the results of a referendum and sold half what was tax payer owned.

Interesting. Are you saying it was a bad decision, decided by a vote of the population, to sell 49% of those assets ? If so, please explain how you have come to that conclusion ?

[Panda-NZ-]

Speaking of cake, Mark Mitchell took it when arguing for a public / private partnership gor a police station in Auckland CBD.
What's next mercenaries patrolling the streets?

Luxon gets all giddy when talking about public private partnerships.

Hopefully there's effective auditing and a second viewpoint sought on these ideas.

[Panda-NZ-]

I find it incredible that the coalition government is now complaining about the power generation and retailers when National went against the results of a referendum and sold half what was tax payer owned.

Interesting set of circumstances that are relevant here.

Devestation, two mills close with hundreds of jobs on the line.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3503...reds-jobs-line

Isn't the marginal cost for hydro only 3c/kwh.. that was certainly on offer to Rio Tinto.

[Bjauck]

Interesting. Are you saying it was a bad decision, decided by a vote of the population, to sell 49% of those assets ? If so, please explain how you have come to that conclusion ?

The result of the referendum was 67% of voters were against the sale of 49% of those state assets.

However John Key had said he would ignore the result of the referendum. Despite that, the turnout was still 45%. Key was determined to sell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_N...les_referendum

[Balance]

The result of the referendum was 67% of voters were against the sale of 49% of those state assets.

However John Key had said he would ignore the result of the referendum. Despite that, the turnout was still 45%. Key was determined to sell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_N...les_referendum

That’s what leadership is about.

Compared to ‘Policing by consent’, remember?

[dobby41]

Interesting. Are you saying it was a bad decision, decided by a vote of the population, to sell 49% of those assets ? If so, please explain how you have come to that conclusion ?

Ultimately - yes.
The isn't so much the sale but the rules they then run by.
1/ they are allowed a maximum ROI so they revalued straight away and could then put up prices.
2/ they all get paid the rate of the most expensive producer. There is little incentive for the lowest cost producer (hydro) to push production high as when the speaker kicks in they'll get paid more for their cheap hydro.
What should be done is the speaker gets paid based on their cost+ and the result is averaged to the consumer (or wholesale price).
3/ Gentailers - push the cost of your power up (the wholesale rate) but discount to your retail arm making it hard for any retail competitors.

[dobby41]

That’s what leadership is about.

Compared to ‘Policing by consent’, remember?

That isn't leadership!
That's ignoring the voters (or ignoring democracy).

[dobby41]

So we get a new Ministry for Regulation to cut costs.
Seymour then staffs it with 91 people (so much for cutting the public service) and pay them an average of over $150k/year.
"Seymour confirmed the median and mean salary of fixed-term and permanent Ministry employees is $154,500 and $152,034"

That makes the median ministry salary 82% higher than that of the average public servant, which is $84,000.