OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[ValueNZ]

Oceania deduct the float when they calculate the Embedded Value

Embedded Value is about 71 cents prt share

Embedded Value is a figure used to show built up unrealised resale gains + accrued DMF.

Of course you'd deduct the float when calculating that figure. What's your point?

[ValueNZ]

3M and it's recent spin off.

Ok, I have a project for you ValueNZ and something I want you to ask your professors.

Look at the trading prices of 3M before and after it spun off its healthcare business which was around 30% of its income and huge part of its revenue. Look at the market value of the shares you got in the spin off the day it spun and the market value of the remaining shares of 3M.

Remember Mistatea has told us how even the NZ market is hyper efficient let alone the US and one of the largest most followed companies in the world.

Nice! What's that, like a 25-30% return in 2 months? EMH is a joke.

I won't be asking my professor that, I decided part way through last year that I wasn't going to argue/debate with teachers about topics they were teaching. It never goes anywhere productive. My economics teacher was a green party voting socialist so that was difficult for me haha.

[Daytr]

Deleted as duped

[Daytr]

OTM? This isn't an option bud

Ya see this is when you should learn to keep your mouth shut.
You understand I traded derivatives for a living right?
So what are you trying to tell me kid?

You said you haven't learnt anything from your lectures.
Perhaps you should be paying more attention.

[ValueNZ]

Ya see this is when you should learn to keep your mouth shut.
You understand I traded derivatives for a living right?
So what are you trying to tell me kid?

You said you haven't learnt anything from your lectures.
Perhaps you should be paying more attention.

That Oceania shares are not a derivative, there is no "out of the money". There isn't a strike price, or an expiration date.

If you bought shares at 80c and a year later the market values them at 52c, who gives a shít, you're not betting on some price movement to make a profit.

[Baa_Baa]

That Oceania shares are not a derivative, there is no "out of the money". There isn't a strike price, or an expiration date.

If you bought shares at 80c and a year later the market values them at 52c, who gives a shít, you're not betting on some price movement to make a profit.

I was confused by this term of phrase, "out of the money" because it applies to derivatives, not equities, stock or shares.

ChatGPT gave this answer to the question:

Can an equity, stock, or share, be "out of the money"?

(after explaining what a call and put option was), it said ...

Summary

• Options can be "out of the money" based on the relationship between the strike price and the current market price of the underlying asset.
• Equities (stocks or shares) cannot be "out of the money" because they are not derivatives and do not have strike prices.

In summary, the term "out of the money" is relevant to options trading and not applicable to regular stock ownership.

[ValueNZ]

I was confused by this term of phrase, "out of the money" because it applies to derivatives, not equities, stock or shares.

ChatGPT gave this answer to the question:

Can an equity, stock, or share, be "out of the money"?

(after explaining what a call and put option was), it said ...

Summary

• Options can be "out of the money" based on the relationship between the strike price and the current market price of the underlying asset.
• Equities (stocks or shares) cannot be "out of the money" because they are not derivatives and do not have strike prices.

In summary, the term "out of the money" is relevant to options trading and not applicable to regular stock ownership.

Exactly.

Daytr I think you need to do a little more research on options before telling me to pay more attention in uni lectures (level 100 papers don't even look at derivatives).

[Baa_Baa]

He's a very interesting character that is for sure.

I'll tell you what Baa_Baa, it's a bloody sight easier getting hold of a bunch of OCA shares when they're low 50's eh.

Buying same volumes I was last year but paying way less.

Something any 5 year old would easily understand.

But for a lot of people here it's a massive struggle.

Yeah, because there's no five year olds here, even though some act like it.

Thing is, most people seem to focus on the share price, hoping to buy low, then sell high. Fair enough, but most of them don't know what low or high is, because they don't know or think they know, what the company is worth (value) now, or into the future and rely on the market to tell them. And the market imo is a terrible indicator of current or future company value. Nevertheless, the market does 'price' it. We can use that to our advantage in the right situations, or we can freak out and kill our capital.

For the market price followers, it's all about making a capital gain, preferably quickly, on the share price, they're all hovering around seeing this share price sh1t itself wondering, is this the low, no wait, it might go higher and miss a few cents, no wait, it might go lower and lose a few cents, no wait I haven't any idea what the heck is happening. All because they don't know, or don't have the skills or inclination to try and figure out what a company is actually worth, like what is its value now and what will it's value be in the future. It's like flying blind, informed only by the share price which is notoriously unreliable.

Value investors on the other hand spend most of their investing lives waiting for opportunity, because they put in the effort to decide what the company is actually worth now and into the future, and whether the asset they're buying now is a decent risk reward, and whether the market has completely mispriced it, giving an outstanding long term investment return. Of course they're vilified and ridiculed because, essentially they're contrary investors, they see something others don't and buy what appears to be a dog because the share price has been gutted, but in fact will (or most likely will) pay off handsomely for them in the future.

We the value investors and the traders, are here right now because of the same thing, the share price is ridiculously low compared to embedded and future value. We only differ as to our rationale as to when to get some, or some more.

[Baa_Baa]

Exactly.

Daytr I think you need to do a little more research on options before telling me to pay more attention in uni lectures (level 100 papers don't even look at derivatives).

As far as I can tell, there's no options chain on OCA.NZ or OCA.AX

[ValueNZ]

As far as I can tell, there's no options chain on OCA.NZ or OCA.AX

Even if there were, Daytr was referring to SailorRob's shares being out of the money which makes no sense