Does anyone know when direct takes over from ANZ Some months ago, there was great urgency to register and get details in order but we havn"t heard any more
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Does anyone know when direct takes over from ANZ Some months ago, there was great urgency to register and get details in order but we havn"t heard any more
Placed a buy order at about 10.09 this morning. Account says placed at 10.11. It is now 10.51 and has yet to appear on depth page. Some shares traded at 10.14 at my bid and the buy price queue has grown with my order yet to show. Emailed them for explanation. Yet to receive a reply.
A market is when all bids and offers are shown. If not shown then it is not a market.
Left the order in for an hour. No change so cancelled it.
Replaced the order. It took 5 minutes before it showed on the depth page. This did not matter in this case but in a quick moving market I would have been annoyed at the delay in placing and showing in the market.
this is a common issue with brokers in nz , there is no such thing as direct to market order on the nzx for retail clients. they will first check to see if they can match your order in house then they will check to make sure your order will not distort the market then they may place your order. in a fast moving market crash most people will not be able to exit quickly.
Hi 777, I had the virtually the same experience yesterday, with processing an order which show up as placed on the screen but not showing in the market depth for some time so I rang one of their traders. It turns out that there is a manual component involved at their end to put an order through to the markets. They were short staffed yesterday due to January holidays and were struggling to keep up with the amount of orders.
Hence if there is ever a rush for the exits, we are no show to get an order in the queue.
Is CHI-X no longer quoted in the depth and sales?
(Answer yes it does but not until market open it would seem)
I was asked to complete a survey on improvements to the platform before the sale went through,by first nz capital,none of the improvements for traders ever happened,the only difference they added shareclarity which I couldn't care about anyway.
So same old same old I'm afraid,it takes forever to to see your order go to depth,even if you buy or sell at bid or ask it takes ages to go through.
I sent an email and told them I was totally unimpressed with it. My main hope was that the data would go live,but no such luck.
It's straight out hopeless for trading. The data is live. Your orders simply aren't placed until the broker is back from their coffee/toilet break. Took them 41 minutes to place a market sell once. I now only use them for my looooong term investments where it's unlikely that I'll need to take hasty action.
I find the way they use their discretion with my orders extremely irksome and slowness to market is often very problematic.
Maybe ASB securities is better now days, it wouldn't be hard to be lol
Only improvement is the call account interest rate of 2% for over $50K which is nice. Share clarity is completely useless in my opinion.
Aaron McGrath
Client Experience Manager
Aaron joined FNZC in 2018 as Client Experience Manager in the Direct Wealth division as part of the Direct Broking acquisition (originally ANZ Securities). He is responsible for ensuring our Direct Broking clients have a seamless and world class experience from account opening (on-boarding) through to client queries and trade executions.
Prior to joining FNZC, Aaron worked in various roles at ANZ Bank. Starting in 2001, he worked in Institutional Operations leading International Payments and Market Operations teams. He was part of the integration of ANZ NZ Securities (formerly Direct Broking Limited) into ANZ Market Operations in 2013 and most recently has been Operations Manager of ANZ NZ Securities covering equity and fixed interest settlements, Client On-boarding (account opening) and the Client Service Team.
Outside of work, Aaron enjoys restoring classic cars and will jump at any opportunity to head out on the water in summer.
I was a dedicated long-term fan of ASB Securities, but completely left them about a year ago.
Direct Broking are yet to prove themselves inept (if they in fact are) but I eventually found ASB Securities hopeless to deal with. It took a great deal of work and 5 months to get myself out from under the Margin Lending stranglehold they had on me. I feel so relieved to have done so. So far I've had no problems with ANZSecurities/Direct Broking.. fingers crossed.
DB used to get orders to market within 1 or 2 minutes. Now at times it can take the best part of an hour.
I even have had an Buy order partly filled, and the balance of the order not showing up on the debt. Subsequent transactions were lower than my buy order which was being ignored, then the price jumped and I had to increase the buy offer to get it filled.
I suspect that they tried to fill the order in house.
On top of that it seems returning e-mails is not a priority, still waiting for an answer of an e-mail send in December.
Yesterday and today I tried to get hold of Aaron McGrath, the Client Experience Manager by phone no luck.
I am not impressed.
Sad sad way how direct broking seem to be loosing the plot. :(
Send all the principal's a link to this thread.
They probably do not care. No money in the traditional retail client side of things anyway. So they can ignore you and hope you go away. And if they do they go great, that's another customer that makes us no money that we do not have to worry about. Maybe a bit cynical or sarcastic maybe, but I wonder if there is any money in making $30 a trade with NZ retail punters with all the costs involved. Real money to be made elsewhere of course.
So why did FNZC purchase Direct Broking off ANZ? Probably for the database of clients to be able to sell their IPO's and other products to. And after a year when brokerage may go up, plenty may leave and try ASB out for size. Not sure if I even am correct here but that is how I see it.
If there was real money to be made in NZ selling brokerage at $30 a pop there would be more operators out there. But there are not. Access could not do it back in the day and went under and Direct back in the day was not a cash cow. It did ok but that was about it.
Thats simply because CHI-X don't run pre-open and close auction processes
I had always found ANZ SEC order processing appalling, but it seems it's got even worse. I have never had a problem with ASB, as they use Straight through Order Processes, but their exchange rates are usurious
I think there are a lot on here that maybe havn't paid $30 for a trade for a long time,myself included,because they trade bigger quantities,I actually tried to get my brokerage dropped without any luck, because I did think with the antiquated system they have,and with the extra pain of not knowing for ages whether your trade has gone through or not,it was just such easy money for them.And lets remember that's in and out, of a trade.
How is that double clipping the ticket? There is a buy order, yours, and a sell order someone else's. If they match you both off in house its $30 bucks a pop or $60. If they buy yours on market and sell the other order on market its still $30 each. So not really double clipping is it.
Your assuming that both buyer and seller are DB clients yet a lot of the time they are only gaining the $30 from one side of the transaction unless both buyer and seller are DB clients.They have a far wider matching ability now with FNZC on tap and a much bigger pool of easily accessible clients for matching orders.
You right Couta and that I think works in DB clients disadvantage.
It seems when a order is placed that FNZC is trying to trade the order in house, this can give time delays maybe an hour or so.
They are creating 2 problems with that, firstly the market can move agains you. But of even more concern is the extra time spend wondering if the order has been actioned on and /if the order is completed or needs adjusting.
no disagree. FNZC owns DB (DB is FNZC) so still no double clipping as you had put it. Sorry but the only reason I can think of for matching in house is to get better outcomes for both sets (or at least one) of clients.
Ie you say sell my TRA down to 2.28 for an order or 100k. FNZC know they also have a buyer wanting to buy x amount that day at all sorts of prices ranging from 2.30 to 2.33. They might then fill your sell order at 2.31 with the client so that you get a better deal and the client picks up some at a good price too.
Fair enough.
What I am not happy about with DB is the amount of time it takes to get the order to market. And there are no excuses for that whatsoever.
When I used to work for DB as a broker (long time ago now) when an order came in you were supposed to get it to market within 30 seconds. See the order, check if there are other DB orders it could be matched with, if so, do the match, if not, execute the order on screen.
I am guessing that since most FNZC orders will not be on the screen to start with it can be a complicated mess asking all the other brokers "do you have a buyer for xxx" or does anyone have a seller for "xxx". Especially if said broker is out to lunch or on a call.
At DB we did have institutional brokers but they usually told us what they were looking for to buy or sell so you had a pretty good idea of what could be in house matched. Sometimes I did put something on the screen (executed a trade) to have a broker angrily come and say "i had a client who wanted those" but generally it worked fine.
It is very concerning. I am also deeply concerned with the cultural difference between how ANZ securities ran the business and FCNZ.
FCNZ take an extremely liberal approach to using their market discretion. Let me post a good example. The other day I placed a small top up order for 1500 Synlait with a $9.68 limit. There were several thousand on offer at that price. It did not appear to be processed for about 10 minutes so I phoned to find out what was going on.
Best bid was $9.62 and the previous days close was $9.56 (down 32 cps). I was told the didn't want to hit the bid at $9.68 because that would involve an untoward movement in the share price.
They want stability and order in the market, or words to that effect. This seems bizarre given the previous days share price decline. I hardly think a trade that adds 12 cents to the share price after a 32 cents per share decline the day before is disorderly or inappropriate in any way.
My response. Well if the share price runs away north I expect you have a legal obligation to fill my order at $9.68 and I'll be looking to enforce that obligation. As long as its clear the risk is on FCNZ that's fine. The order was filled at $9.65 about 2 hours later but the point is I placed an order at a price limit for immediate execution and they delayed it for reasons that I think are unreasonable.
This discretion thing they have and use is really getting on my nerves.
Frustrating, if the same happens with a sell order than your funds are locked up for this extra time, that can easily prevent you from timely putting the next buy order in.
We are experience investors/traders, we are the market and we should decide if share prices are flat lining, go up or down slow or fast. We do not want baby sitting by our broker, full stop.
I would be surprised if it was NZX rules causing such extreme delays. Trades used to go to market within seconds. Read blackcap post, he is an ex DB broker employee.
Exactly Forest. What on earth is wrong with a 12 cents share price rise on a $9.56 share, only a little over 1% when ATM the same morning was up 50 cents per share.
Do they realise that these two companies fortunes are inextricably linked or don't they care about timely execution of orders ?
Maybe its time to revisit the idea of dealing with ASB securities even though their brokerage rates are a bit higher...
Agree with your last post too. Oder execution is extremely slow...not enough staff. They fully deserve to lose a significant amount of business if they continue to conduct themselves in this manner. No point emailing Fiona McKenzie their so called head of operations because she never replies or returns phone calls.
https://www.fnzc.co.nz/direct-broking-team/
In ensuring their trading conduct promotes and helps maintain an orderly market, NZXParticipants consider a range of circumstances relevant to the current conditions of the marketfor any financial product. Accordingly, in allowing each Order to proceed through to the market,NZX Participants must first determine (among other things): Whether the execution of that Order is consistent with the recent trading activity in therelevant financial product; andGUIDANCE NOTE – TRADING CONDUCT – MARCH 2018 6 of 32 Whether the execution of that Order will materially affect the price or market for therelevant financial product.1
https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ch_2018%29.pdf
silly nzx rules discourage trading
I havn't had this but this mornings trade,should have been electronically instant,they do come up with BS excuses,last time I enquired why it took so long for orders to even appear I was told that they had to check my csn no. now common(anz sec)in this digitally enhanced age.
I am starting to think that what happened to you was more not ruffling FNZC managed clients holdings,I don't know just a thought.
Thanks for posting the link. Section 3 "Orderly Markets" On a quick review I note the examples they give refer to a 20% price increase and a 14% price decrease respectively. The example I gave above refers to a 1.25% price increase on Synlait and was well within the scope of the price the shares traded at during the previous days trading range. I would therefore conclude that Direct Broking wrongly used their discretion in the example I posted above and are in breech of their fiduciary obligation to put their clients best interests first. I felt that at the time which is why I warned them, (all calls are recorded) that if the order wasn't filled at $9.68 the risk was on them and I would expect them to honour my buy order at that price.
I think there is a MAJOR cultural difference between FCNZ trading as Direct Broking and the former ANZ securities and I find it very annoying.
Time for another online broker to appear.
if you dont think they are implementing the rules satisfactory i think there is a disapline panel you can complain to who will investigate.
i got sick and tired of this silly rules ruining my trading on nzx and after all my complaints to broker where just we follow the rules etc i decided oh well more money for overseas brokers
In the past I have used Etrade on the ASX {but not for some time}. Trades were lightning fast. Orders were filled in no time. and contract notes followed very quickly.
NZX rules do state you have to ensure an orderly market and cannot place bids offers that are too far removed from market etc. Not set in stone as such but some brokers adhere to these guidelines more strictly than others. Say the bid is 20 cents and offer is 50 cents and last trade was at 22 cents. Most brokers would not execute an order to buy at 50 cents.
Best bid $9.62 but broker won't execute a buy order at $9.68 just 6 cents more suggests to me that the wheels have well and truly come off at so called "Direct" Broking. Just 0.6% higher when the share moved in a 32 cent range the previous day...for goodness sake...what they did was actionable and I would have done exactly that if my order didn't get filled at $9.68 or under.
Not the first time either, the previous day I placed an order for some HLG shares at $4.34 to ensure in the opening match process I got a fill.
They dialed the order back to $4.30 of their own volition and I didn't get a fill. Some barking ensued later that morning and I demanded they give me a fill at the opening match price of $4.31.
Sure there was a jump on the opening bid but they had just issued a trading update !
direct broking, asb just as bad each other. pitiful state of broking and nzx rules in nz. look at the pitiful volumes on such a big news day
this is very concerning to me. i have had similarly disquieting experiences as the Beagle hasnhadbwith FNZC. They swear they are using discretion to do the best they can but I don’t feel comfortable with it, because i know i am small fry and i know they will always look after the big guys first.
however, i was told “if you want DMA and instant satisfaction etc, use Direct Broking when we buy them”, which I was considering doing for my active trading, at least. But not if this is how it works.
In addition, IIRC, the NZX is concerned about the growing % of off-market crossings and if DB orders are sucked into the FNZC pool, that % is going to grow even higher.
And be in no doubt, a broker loves it when they get both sides of the trade. fees and info.
This is all very concerning, thanks for sharing, I really had no idea that they could play god like this. When you add the off-market transactions to this picture...well..do we really have a market at all ? Does anyone know how this compares with the ASX ?
The market is changing significantly and the NZX will/should be worried - not that some of their employees seemed concerned last year when I talked to them about it. The FNZ have the breadth of the market now ~ 50% market share (retail, advisory, wealth, insto). FNZ are now a market themselves really. The market that you see displayed by the NZX now is a very opaque looking market. Craigs will hold orders to fill inhouse, For Barrs will do the same as they're both obviously competing with FNZC for flow and so the only broker now showing orders to market in any real fashion is ASB Sec. Also, the NZX looked to install some new broker rules last year around the restriction of crossings. After lobbying from brokers the NZX implemented a watered down version which restricts crossings under $50k in value - this in effect stopped ANZ securities and ASB securities doing crossings as most of their flow is smaller than $50k but FNZC, Craigs and For Barrs just bundle the orders up over time and cross when larger than $50k - hence the slow time to market.
Mm, thanks ordop your post explains the following. I had an order filled with direct broking but no combination in the recent trades column would combine to the number of shares I had purchased. The trade was slow so it is likely it was held up for the reason your outlined.
Is this allowed by the NZX rules?
All my bad experiences have been with ASBSec so far, and I have plenty of examples. Only joined ANZ Sec about Oct last year and cut all ties with ASBSec.
My worst experience was when ASBSec refused outright to carry out my instruction to purchase a $10k share parcel for a price 0.2c/share higher than the previous day's close, but 0.2c/share lower then the previous days intra-day high.... nothing short of pathetic.
Direct Broking and ASBSec are as bad as each other by the looks but Direct Broking hasn't let me down yet.
Just when did these brokering companies stop performing brokerage services to become puppets of the NZX? Rather than looking after their customers, they are now focussed on policing trade activities and seem hell bent on opposing market forces in the interest of 'stability'.
Too often, like now, an unexpected error has happened.
I thought it was just me not knowing how to play the game.
I have on a number of occaisions thought that if (as ASB imlied) the pocket money I am playing with is enough to manipulate or break the NZSX then I probably shouldn't have any money in it!
Just missed scooping up a share parcel that was dropped on market 10% lower than last trade due to DB not processing order requests. 25 min and counting. The next sell parcel is 25% higher than that dropped parcel. WTF is wrong with these muppets
40 minutes...
60 minutes...
1hr 20 minutes...
2hrs...
4hrs and finally the request was processed!
Oop, my mistake, it was actually 5hrs...
It's been a hopeless week for any trading with a data delay of 10 mins or more on the NZX all week.
looks like the brokers are creaming the spread on you db clients lol or slippage bit here and there adds up too many millions over time
I just rang the DB trading desk to enquire about a sell order sitting there for about an hour. There is a problem with their Aussie provider UBS so no trading is possible and there is no end in sight.
Something pretty strange happened to me on Direct Broking today too. I received a contract note for a buy order that was partly filled. I thought this was strange as I didn't think the share price dropped to my buy price all day. I checked the market depth and it says that no trades went through at my buy price - the lowest trade of the day was 1c higher. Looked at my portfolio and it includes the same amount of shares from the contract note but when I look at my orders it says the completed quantity is zero, as I would expect it to be. I'm not sure if I own these shares or not now. I'm certainly not going to pay for them until someone can verify if it's a mistake or a legitimate purchase.
The following is on the website now trying to justify their interference in actioning what orders we place.
I don't want their so called expertise. I just want my orders actioned when I place them.
Latest Update - Placing a high volume or complex order?
For significant orders, either in terms of size or complexity, the Direct Broking trading team leverage’s FNZC’s extensive market depth and coverage to achieve the best possible outcome for our clients. This means it may take a little longer to process these orders, but we believe our capital markets expertise will give you the best outcome for your portfolio. close
This is a problem of a full service brokerage getting involved with an online brokerage. The reason I started using an online one is simply because I did want anything to do with a full service one. They forget that we are the market and the system is not for their benefit to manipulate.
I have emailed them to tell them that I don't think they should play with clients orders in this way.
Well I just spoke with one of the team at Direct Broking and you guys were right. It was a legitimate purchase but the guy I spoke to could not explain how they were able to fill some of my order at a buy price that was about 3% lower than the lowest price these shares supposedly traded for on Friday.
I did wonder about them just doing it to clip the ticket and pick up the brokerage, but then I thought they could have given me a much smaller parcel of shares and still done this. In the end it wasn't an insignificant amount that I received.
I'm also still a bit confused as to why it doesn't show up that they partly filled my order when I look at my outstanding orders. Usually they show. Oh well :confused:.
I phoned them a few weeks ago about my internet order not showing in the depth yet there being a seller willing to sell at the price I was prepared to pay. They
told me they were bundling my order with others to try and get me a lower price thru. a wholesale buy. I replied that they were not my instructions and that
I expected them to put thru. my orders as submitted. I gave them till the end of the day to secure my order at cheaper than my bid price to which they agreed
but soon after speaking with them my buy offer turned up in the depth as per my original order. It seemed a bit shonky at the time but I did not lay a complaint
and it has not happened on a subsequent purchase of shares in the same company. Not actioning my original order probably cost me what would have been a good buy as the
price moved up in the period that my order was not submitted.
Honestly it's a shonky platform,I really thought they were going to move it ahead when they bought the company, today my trading view platform has the correct price whereas direct broking even after refreshing several times is 1 cent behind,very very poor in my opinion.
Has been good with me. Updating quickly, I put a buy order in for SPK this morning, it showed in the Bids in less than a minute, 5 minutes later the trade was complete & 15 minutes after that my contract note arrived in my Email.
Placing orders on ASX is abysmal and it seems that a Limit Order status is returned when their ASX broker accepts the order but this is before the order has actually been placed on the ASX. This is shonky and deceptive.
I would very much like to open an account with an Aussie broker and also need an Aussie bank account for this. I used to have a bank account but it was closed by nthe bank when the anti-money laundering rules came in. I have not yet found how I can get a new account since I am not Aussie resident. Can anyone give advice on this?
silverback, like a lot of others I suspect, i use CBA and CommSec. no problems joining both as an NZ resident, they've been good to deal with, and no issues. the only thing I don't like is they off-market matching of your orders - not always thru the exchange, but does happen quickly.
Thanks jg, I will check it out. Others I looked only accept AU residents.
yes, I use commsec too, also no issues
Do you deal directly with commsec? Or via ASB Securities?
ASB Securities sign you up with a Commsec account too. Their web site says:
Quote:
If you buy Australian shares through us, your shares will be held by Commonwealth Securities in your name and registered to your Holder Identification Number (HIN). This is known as a CHESS-sponsored holding. If you have share trading accounts with different Australian brokers, you’ll have a HIN for each broker. When you join ASB Securities, we also register you with Commonwealth Securities so you can trade on Australian markets
ASB use Commsec but charge their own fees, etc. What voltage and I are suggesting (and doing) is bypasssing the middleman and using Commsec direct. I suspect there are quite a few people in that category.
I have a Commsec account (CDIA - Commsec Direct Investment A/c I think it stands for), and a bank account at CBA. I can log onto CBA or COmmsec, and access all accounts etc and broking thru that one log-in. I pay no bank or account fees, and get minimal interest (~2% pap), and get pretty reasonable broker rates.
yes i have 2 brokerage a/c's in aus by passing nz brokers and brokerage is great .1% commissions on asx trades
I deal with commsec direct. You need a CBA bank account. Did this on a trip to Australia. I may be wrong but you may need a physical address, I use a relative over there for this. Commsec is not the cheapest but the cheapest is not always the best as indicated by couta1.
The issue is not their financial security although FNZC has a lower credit rating than ANZ Securities which had ANZ Bank behind it. The issue is the adverse effect of having an Aussie broker between the NZ broker and the ASX. Under ANZ Securities these impacts were noticeable in terms of delays in getting orders posted but these have worsened under FNZC and there have been other issues whereby access to the ASX quotes/depth has been lost or delayed. I have lost deals becasue of these issues and as a result have lost tolerance with DirectBroking.
I only trade NZX stocks and although some are dual listed and I could use a different broker for them the whole currency conversion thing comes into play so just not worth going elsewhere.The reason the brokerage fees are higher apart from the lack of competition is due to the fee gouging by NZX themselves. PS-I agree the problems have been a real pain in the rear end.PPS-Just had a detailed look at the Commsec fee structure and as always the devil is in the detail eg they charge a platform data fee and $1.95 for a posted contract note for a start(Yes I'm old school and like all my contract notes sent out in paper form)
Speed to market should materially improve for the next two and a bit weeks. A really prolific trader I know has gone on holiday.
DB running a survey to find out what they can do better. Open util 25 March. Good opportunity to voice the concerns raised on this forum guys and gals