........a star performer.
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........a star performer.
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Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
It might be good sport and entertaining reading, but I can't see the point in over dramatising or prolonging the 'either/or' discussion Snoops.
These guys are savvy investors andexpert traders as well (kudos to them), they'll be out at the first whiff of their exit signals, whatever they might be. In the meantime, we can enjoy their enthusiasm and optimism for the future. It's also nice to see a NZX success story and clever investors riding the wave. We can all learn from their forthright and at times strident disclosures.
Fortunately they're so honest and open as well, I fully expect that when (if?) the circumstances change, unlikely as that may seem presently, they will broadcast that, albeit after the fact of their exit.
Sure percy ... HBL is a good share. Personally I think SKL is a good share as well, but with a different characteristic - it is cyclical. Comparing a cyclical share with non cyclical share based or somewhat arbitrary time windows does not make that much sense if it is a fair comparison you are after.
I remember times when SKL was at 47 cents - and look where they are now!
What I don't understand is ... why do you want to convince everybody to join into the HBL CR? It just means that everybody gets less shares due to increased scaling - or are you concerned that they have not enough applications to distribute the full allocation?
Discl: hold SKL and HBL (roughly same amounts ...)
To be honest I wouldn't call it a bargain at the current price but a good hold.
Well said Percy. No comparison between the two companies. One is growing EPS consistently, the other has been a classic cyclical going nowhere, in fact for the last decade ! Maybe the directors and management of SKL have that Talking Heads song on their car radio's in a constant repeat loop ? :D The two companies are as different as chalk and cheese...very surprised the other hound can't see that.
Investment is about allocation of capital.I look for sectors with tail winds,ie,retirement,health,tourism,and digital banking.I avoid sectors such as retail [yes hold a few HLG and LOV asx] and manufacturing in NZ.The likes of CAV,MGL,MVN,SCT,and SKL I think are dead ducks.I do not hold any of them.I try to invest in companies whose share price will double in 5 years.
HBL SPP>I am not trying to convince anyone,just stating what I intend to do.I have posted that I hold far too many HBL and even at $1.46 it will increase my average holding cost.I have also said I am just going to use our rainy day spare cash and take the dividend in cash .At $1.46 cum divie, I see a nice margin,as that works out at $1.425 and I think the sp will settle at over $1.50.Margin could be 5.2% in under a month.!!!!
Going forward I think the market is waking up to HBL's growth prospects.As you are well aware, the directors' speechs at the agm were very much,we have done the ground work,and have the products,now let the fun start.We are "well positioned."I do see HBL's share price at $2.Maybe in a year's time,or could be 2 years time. I don't mind which, as in the meantime I expect the fully imputed dividend will increase.
Only a matter of time before this stock pushes through resistance at 1.60,it's banging it's head again this morning. Then a nice slow meander to 1.80 would be nice.
Hounds usually run in packs so its curious how the other hound's always been way off trail from the hunt with this one.
I like running with tailwinds so previously enjoyed a marvelous run from mid 80 cent mark just after the credit rating upgrade in early 2014 to low 130's in early 2015 when dairy risks starting looking ominous.
Now I sense we're in a period of tailwinds again and maybe even a further credit rating upgrade is possible so am happy to be snapping up juicy dividends and capital gains again :)
Disc: Tail up and wagging, holding and applying for full $15K of shares under SPP and full participation in the dividend reinvestment scheme.
Does spp shares entitle for dividend as recorded date is 23rd march..the shares are issued before that...thanks.
So I have sold down a few HBL to make up the available cash to apply for the full $15K.
Add whatever I get in the SPP to all I can get in the DRP and I would be back to being overweight in HBL.
The cash back on the SPP will go into something else with, hopefully, even higher future returns. :t_up:
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Btw does anyone know when the unused money after scaling will be refunded?
3 to 4 days usually.
Hi everyone, I'm a first time poster but long time watcher of this thread. I am a kiwi living in Australia whose sons have a joint shareholding in HBL. We are wondering if anyone knows the best way to sell shares from in Australia? We were back in NZ a year or so ago and tried to sell them but they said as we were living in Australia we had to sell them here. Finding it difficult to locate a broker who will deal with NZ shares. Any suggestions?
I think my reasons for not investing in Heartland have been well docmented. I have had a good holding in banking shares for years, mainly ANZ and WBC in my 'Ozzie' portfolio. I don't particularly want to be invested in three Australasian banks. So if I was to invest in Heartland, one of these would have to go. My WBC analysis is yet to come. But my snapshot comnparison with ANZ bank tells the story:
ANZ Heartland Return on shareholder Equity FY2016 11.8% 10.7% Net Profit Margin (Sustainable Profit/Gross Interest Revenue) FY2016 22.8% 20.1% Average NZ Gross Dividend (FY2013 to FY2017) = 7.66cps / 0.72 = 10.6cps Average Aus Gross Dividend (FY2013 to FY2017) 7.66cps Average NZ Gross Dividend (FY2012 to FY2016) $A1.524ps Average Aus Gross Dividend (FY2012 to FY2016) $A1.986ps Share Price 02-03-2017 $A31.32 $1.59 Average Gross NZ Yield 02-03-2017 4.87% 6.66% Average Gross Aus Yield 02-03-2017 6.34% 4.82%
On the two operational measures that most matter, ANZ wins. The gross yield, thanks to NZ imputation credits is favourable for Heartland. However, if you reverse the perspective and look at what an Australian investor would see, ANZ offers the better yield (due to Aussie franking credits the Australians can access, while being unable to access our NZ imputation credits for Heartland). The value of ANZ shares is largely determined by Australian investors, and the value of HBL shares is largely determined by NZ investors. Looking at the home market yield comparison (Heartland 6.66% vs ANZ 6.34%) there is very little difference.
Heartland is getting better with time, this is true. But Heartland does not generate nearly as much cash as ANZ. Since formation Heartland has only paid a net 30% of their earnings as dividends (if you remove the capital value of the new shares issued from the total divdends declared). This isin't unusual for a growth company. But the return on all this new equity at Heartland is not that flash. Given that Heartland has been running with tailwinds since 2013, what happens to these 'not so flash' returns if the tailwind starts to lose its puff?
I'll keep watching Heartland for sure. But from an investment perspective going forwards, I think that I will get a better return by continuing to hold ANZ shares. At $1.59, the investment case for Heartland does not stack up for this bargain hunter.
SNOOPY
PS My previous comparison with SKL was somewhat spurious given HBL and SKL are in quite different business areas. But both shares had share prices in the $150s and both paid similar levels of dividends. So the comparison caught my eye.
Hi there. My suggestion would be to approach whichever bank you deal with and ask them about their share trading facilities. ANZ, for instance, runs a platform called ANZ Securities. This should definitely be available in Australia. Should be cheaper than a full service broker too.
https://shareinvesting.anz.com/Inves...s/Default.aspx
I'm not from ANZ if that helps...
Not much time at the minute Snoopy but please remind me again how EPS has grown comparing ANZ with HBL over the last five years.
As an aside I don't invest in Australian companies because this hound absolutely detests paying tax twice. The fact that N.Z. residents cannot claim Australian franking credits makes a complete mockery of so called closer economic relations.
Somebody pointed out to me that Heartland are getting $20m from shareholders this month and then a week or two paying a dividend worth $18m to shareholders. Seems stupid he said
I told him 'it's not stupid mate - that's how clever big businesses operate'. Don't think he was convinced
(Probably one less shareholder taking up the offer - good eh
No no no .....not Snoopy
The guy who thinks the cap raising is stupid said if they need $20m why don't they just can the divie this time around and keep the cash. Would save a lot of paperwork and bother
Still haven't convinced him about that's how clever businesses work bit .....doubt whether he ever will.
I guess clever engineers are a bit like those "investors", who drive to Wall Street in a Rolls Royce, to be advised by "advisors" who caught the subway to work.
Yet some very good CEOs have an engineering degree.!
Just as well you and I know HBL are doing the right thing,although it would need me to do a Snoopy book to explain it.And I do not do Snoopy books,or sell them.!
Simply put,HBL understand their shareholders,and act at all times to grow the business. and pay growing fully imputated dividends,while making sure their capital ratios remain capable to fund their growth,without having lazy excess capital.
Always trying to be the best bank.rather than the biggest.
And they are succeeding.
esp if they didn't pay such high divies
If they reinvested divies and consistently made 12% ROE todays shareholder equity of $529m would be $5.1 billion in 20 years time ..... with a market cap of say over $8.0 billion ....share price $16 ....and a big bank
Just mathematics - nothing clever in that - and miles away from reality eh
Maybe we should get Snoops to do one his famous Buffett type tables as to see what generates greater return for shareholders over the years assuming a consistent ROE but with different payout ratios.
Think you are best to send him a PM .!!!!.....lol.
In reality investors must decide where to allocate their capital.
We have companies such as HBL and RYM.Both have ROE of over 10% and yet have very different dividend payout ratios.
Each company retains a certain % of profit to reinvest in their business.
It is very doubtful that investors could earn more than those companies', over 10%,so investors would be better to take no dividends from either company.
Yet the directors of both companies realise that in NZ ,very few investors would invest in them should they pay no dividend,
Over the past few years were have seen the market gravitate to high yielding stocks,to the point we have seen some posters on sharetrader, compare HBL with the Australian banks, solely on yield.I would think the directors of HBL are fully aware of this,and decide of dividend payout ratios taking that in mind,as well as their desire to grow the business.
Softness????????????????
I have been surprised by the share price strength.!!!!!!!!!!!!
Got down to $1.56 in the last few days at one point I think Percy. Strength is relative...has been hovering around $1.50 for many, many months so the recent spurt up to $1.60 was probably overdue.
$1.59-$1.60 feels about right to me...for now :) Onward and upward... $1.80 by Christmas !
Just filled in the maximum shares of 15k application
[
percy, have you asked how much SPP money is sitting in the holding account? - if it's >100m, I'll scream, we'll scream, we all like ice cream[/QUOTE]
I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
I wonder how many people sold a few a couple of weeks ago, and brought 500 shares for each of their children,so they could apply for a multiple number of applications in the SPP.?
Wisely I think it is no longer possible to apply for your cats' and dogs' names,which will affect people like Roger .
Our rainy day fund has been under pressure lately [daughters],so I had only enough funds to apply for $7,500 for my wife,and the same amount for myself.
I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
I wonder how many people sold a few a couple of weeks ago, and brought 500 shares for each of their children,so they could apply for a multiple number of applications in the SPP.?
Wisely I think it is no longer possible to apply for your cats' and dogs' names,which will affect people like Roger .
Our rainy day fund has been under pressure lately [daughters],so I had only enough funds to apply for $7,500 for my wife,and the same amount for myself.[/QUOTE]
I hope your daughter appreciates that you've given up extra HBL shares for her Percy! :)
Life is funny.I spent years following the markets with no capital to invest,and worrying about retirement.Slowly found a little bit of capital,buying a few hundred dollars of shares,and the rest is as they say history.
The wife and I do not have a family trust.We now find we have more capital than we need.The daughters in the meantime are struggling,so we decided to give them a good bit of their inheritance now.
ps.Still are over weighted in HBL.
percy, my scream was more about the degree of scaling, not the interest being earnedQuote:
I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
Attachment 8731
and good on you for doing what you are doing for your daughters
I have declared my 16 budgies as passed away to the IRD, and filed final returns for them (not)
God's honest truth Percy, I simply couldn't be bothered with all the paperwork splitting my holding up into different entities including my dogs. Only applied for $15K in my name. Rest assured although my dogs aren't HBL sharehoilders I can still afford to give Basil and Skippy their full allocation of dog food :)
Sorry to go off topic yet again,but on one of the Australian threads a few years ago, one poster admitted he held 1 share in hundreds of companies,so he could take part in any SPP if they had one.
Skippy.? Basil? Fine names.
Some dates.
SPP. closes 5pm 10th March.
.....shares allotted 15th March.
....15th March spp shares will commence trading.
.....Holding statements despatched 5 days after allotment date.
Dividend.
23rd March ex dividend.
7th April dividend payable.
So JeremyALD if you sold after the ex dividend date,you would also receive the divie.
Then againif you sell you will miss out on the celebrations when the shares hit $2.00....lol.
If everyshareholder applies for 15k, how many shares would we get? I can't find the total number of shareholders.
Got a reminder email last nite so hopefully uptake is low ;I'm mean why would you tie your funds up just to then get most of it back; no brainer.
Yeah I applied for the max . looks like i will get $13000 plus back. Will treat myself to a rare lotto ticket then not check the numbers lol
I wouldn't be that pessimistic ... Not every holder can put up the full 15k - and many might not bother. Personally I expect to get more something like 5k worth in shares (i.e. 2/3 scaling) ... and my broker even thought it might be up to 10k (i.e. only 1/3 scaling ... but hey - he is an optimist :)).
I'm philosophical about it..whatever I get is what I get. I pulled funds from an account earning a "whopping" 1.5% per annum less resident withholding tax so if I get most of my money back and only a small handful of shares at $1.46 I'll still be well ahead and it took me a whopping 3 minutes to go online and complete the form. (Don't start me on the BNZ charging me $5 for a new direct debit authority though to facilitate electronic payment).
Better submit your application on the latest day possible especially if you're on the margin lending account as the moment my application reached my broker, he whacked $15K right away from that account of mine. As there's no guarantee of getting the maximum shares, that debited amount is contributing to the big hole on my account :scared:
So that is $15,000 gone from the Cash Management Account with a transaction description of 'So long, and thanks for all the fish'.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Was thinking the same thing driving home tonight; wheres the checks and lock symbols etc; how do they have permission to just take the dough out without signing auto payment authority forms etc?First time I've done it this way. Greed is gullible ehh:ohmy:
Posted our SPP forms last Thursday.
Was a little concerned they may get held up in the post.
Just checked my bank a/c and see the money was withdrawn last night,so as usual I find myself "well positioned".
WMP down 12% in dairy auction overnight
Just as well there is no relationship between WMP price and Heartland share price eh Roger .....things have changed eh
Not sure I would call that a "great outcome". While it might happen - what would be great about us selling all of our best companies to foreign investors? I'd prefer to keep them listed and in NZ hands.
A great outcome for me would be HBL merging with Kiwibank and TSB to form NZ's greatest bank with many happy shareholders. Make New Zealand great again!
Hear hear. Who'd be crazy enough to want sell their soul(&heart) to the devil, in a manner of speaking; Avarice maybe?
It may help but I wouldn't think that that alone would make the merged entity one of NZ's biggest banks, nor would it automatically provide the funding, both equity and debt, that big, growing banks constantly need. Good for Kiwibank perhaps but less so for Heartland, I would think.
I hope that it becomes a target of an Australian Bank like Bendigo& Adelaide looking to jump the ditch.
avaricious - the desire to have lots of big bird cages.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Agree Roger.
Merger with Kiwbiank, takeover by a Chinese or Aussie Bank ? No thanks.
We are doing fine by focusing on growth in niche areas such as reverse mortgages and digital platform lending. Lets stay focused on that and continue growing this great little business.
Continue buying parts or all of businesses that enhance that strategy ? Yes please.
Foreign ownership nears 50% If you want to hollow out and shaft your own country for a short term gain; well listening to this on national radio or reading it here will inform one thats its not a good idea for Heartland and other NZ businesses or NZ.
You can support them here
Only want $20 pa
http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/c...oin-cafca.html
Or if you are really concerned how about gifting your Heartland shares in your will
http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/c...AFCA/will.html
Good on you mate; glad your after shave isn't O De Dollars:D