Those countries were heavily indebted before the GFC NZ was not.
Maybe you should take off those neo right blinkers ?
westerly
Printable View
Not so sure about that westerly but numbers can be easily manipulated to suit one's argument, like we so often see on here.
Here are some numbers that came up in quick search on PUBLIC DEBT for 2007 and 2012 as a percentage of GDP:
UK 44% 89%
US 36% 92%
Spain 36% 84%
Australia 15% 32%
NZ 21% 38%
Greece 90% 157%
Iceland 28% 132%
Ireland 25% 118%
Canada 64% 82%
Hard to find a country that has come better out of the GFC than NZ, based on these numbers. But of course there are many other metrics/numbers to take into account. I think NZ and New Zealanders have come out of it better than most though !
Iceman, the figures in this link are more like:
Australia 15%, 29%
NZ 26%, 51%
Australia also improved its position in gross debt % amongst the OECD, where NZ went higher up the table. Both countries are in the bottom quartile, sure.
https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...percentage-gdp
A new article from Werewolf about Mr Fixit, Steven Joyce. Very interesting, I'll remember this next time he's in the news.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2015/03/the-myth-of-steven-joyce/
A second poll reinforces the one earlier this week. National are going to lose up north.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/3...ad-peters-poll
Here are the actual polling results.
http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/index...r-brunton-poll
Mathew Hooton, NBR today.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/sabin-c...ps-ticking-key
If Winnie wins, do we still get our bridges Mr Bridges?
Yes, I guess that could be true. But maybe they didn't use Crosby-Textor until it was too late. I still think Winston saw the opportunity early on, was just pretending he was thinking about it, until he had all the gear and the slogans ready. A great flying start, integrity in communication, that worked, and so it gives hope to all the other parties for 2017, particularly Labour (if they can just get organised).
ipredict puts the boot in as well, today.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO150...aw-emerges.htm
Black Peter, do you even believe the stuff you right? Blaming Labour for National's incurred debt after they have been in power 7 years! Give me break. Yes we had the GFC and yes the tax take was down but that doesn't explain $40Bln ! In fact it doesn't even explain $10Bln! Since then thanks to China we have had the biggest export boom this country has ever seen in dairy and debt is still growing and it has every year under National. Yes NZ as did Australia get through the GFC relatively unscathed but that had very little to with either country's government and far more to do with China than anything else. So all we are seeing is an explosion of government debt that there is no plan to start paying down. If we carry on borrowing like we have we are heading in the same place Japan, Europe & the US is with governments that have mass debt burdens with no way to pay off. We are long way from that yet, but that's the direction under National. I am not pro Labour, but they cannot be blamed for debt being incurred 7 years after they left office. Open the other eye!
Hey so Craic, has gone pretty quiet. Do you know where he lives El Zorro so you can collect your $500? I must admit I thought you were crazy to take that bet at straight odds, but looks like its going to pay!
I just had a beer in one of the locals & Mark Osbourne was there with his team looking pretty somber. I feel sorry for the bloke as I think he handled himself reasonably well for a first timer, but just got sold a lemon.
Daytr - even if you are right, I am $500 in the black in my bets with el Z or don't you remember the bet of $,1000 on the last election? Anyway, the reason for my silence is that I am waiting for The Fat Lady to sing - and that doesn't happen "till tomorrow or Sunday and if its a close call against WP then court cases could go for months. Meanwhile I have a lot of wood to split but first, I must go to the TAB and pick my winners for tomorrow. And, I regret to say, they will not include the Black Caps.
So you will lose two bets this weekend ? The look on Mark Osborne's face in the pub was not one of a winner.
I think it was close until Labour asked their supporters to vote for Peters.
But you are right, fat lady and all that, but my pick is Peters will win by around 3k votes or more.
EZ I think we should be careful posting about the Northland by-election today. We dont want to be in breach of the Electoral Act. Some people were done after the General Election for what they thought were innocent comments. Just a friendly reminder !
Hi daytr,
Yes "I do believe the stuff I right". Lol. I even believe the stuff I write. Must be one of these Freudian slips - deep in your unconscious you know that I am right, but you don't want to admit it. See - I think that you are a reasonable intelligent gal / guy, but unfortunately somewhat ideological blind folded.
O.K. - lets look at the numbers. If we believe the numbers from treasury (http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2011/execsumm/11.htm), than Working for families (one of Helens more expensive bribes) does cost the New Zealand tax payer roughly 2.75 billion per year since 2009. Multiply that with 6 years - and here you've got already 16.5 Billion we otherwise wouldn't have had to take debts on.
Now, lets look at the interest free student loans: according to interest.co.nz (http://www.interest.co.nz/personal-f...billion-intere) did this one of Helens election bribes cost the NZ tax payer already roughly 1.6 billion dollars in 2011 - tendency: rising. So lets assume that these 1.6 billion annually are the median from 2009 to 2014, than we add another 10 billion dollars to the state debt caused by labour's election bribes.
Makes already 26.5 billion dollars.
Add the cost for the Christchurch Earthquake - and we are pretty much covered.
Question: Given that these numbers probably disagree with the teachings of your left/green religion: How do your political priests explain the rise of the national debt? Haven't yet heard a good explanation (or any) coming from your side.
I'm posting a link.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11424231
EZ
I was looking at I- Predict today. I noted that the probability of "John Key departing as leader of National in 2017 "has had a sharp increase at 14%, now costs 53 cents. When I made this prediction some time ago, it was flicked off by the likes of MVT etc as wishful thinking. Personally I think he will go before the next election for a variety of reasons , both political and personal.
I'm not sure where you went to school, however a system that already costs $1Bln and then cost $2.75Bln over 7 years of National equates to circa $11Bln increase, so you are only out by a mere $15Bln. National have been in power for 7 years & they have had the numbers to change policy if they wanted, yet they have chosen not to, so they have accepted the policy & it is now their policy. So I'm sorry you can blame Labor all you like but the fact that haven't changed it suggests they agree or even like the policy. I'm not saying its a good policy or not, but I don't accept you can blame a previous government that hasn't been in office for over two terms! Where has the money from the asset sales gone? We still have $20Bln unaccounted for and I'm sure that's spent on whatever as well. My main point is National is getting this country into hock & its no one else's fault but theirs.
You mistakenly think I am some sort of lefty, haha, another bad assumption. If it was Labor doing similarly bad things, I'd be sticking it to them also.
Blackpeter: fascinating facts there, but you missed out on some other ones. Labour posted a very healthy surplus every year they were in office, which means that whatever "bribes" you think they used to get into office, they obviously were balanced out by a good tax take, so they'd grown the economy.
National upped the GST to 15%, what did that bring in? Labour brought out WFF in 2004 to balance higher costs for families. It wasn't a bribe, it was meant to be a rebalance. National has increased the WFF rates twice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_for_Families
Similarly, the state paid for almost all of my tertiary education. Now students pay about 40% of the costs. At least they should have an interest free loan in the meantime. Govt borrowing costs are minimal after all.
The problem for the budget surplus, as I see it, is that National has trouble growing the economy. Labour were actually very good at it.
There was high advance voting in Northland, which means there should be a great turnout. Voting closes at 7pm, preliminary results should be known by 10.30 pm.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-in-byelection
with 26% counted its all Winnie
Handy lesd over the Nat guy with 52.6% of vote
with 55% polling booth counted and Winnie leading my 2,232
Now has 53.0% of vote
Hope this is the bginning of Keys downfall
Wow looks like a trouncing. Winnie all the way! Woohoo !
looks like pretty strong turnout , esp for a by-electiom
Winnie now 3,400 in front
The populous have spoken ..... they are pissed off with current leadership
90 0f 98 booths
Winnie know 3,626 in front - just under 54% of votes
somebody posted here if Winnie wins with a huge margin Key will call an early election
Doubt it but hope so
Yes, who would have guessed that? Mind you, the pro-National bets on ipredict did start disappearing below the 50% mark fairly quickly. They were just bluffing it out, even then. I'm going to repost what I wrote earlier, the by-election has closed.
So the day is here at last, when we see that National is likely to be ousted in 2017, rather than go on to hold power for four terms. A win for "Not National" in Northland will really boost the confidence of the other parties, in the belief that the normal "three-terms in, three terms out" cycle will prevail. Based on the data left behind so far, theLabour Coalition has a very proud legacy from their nine years in office, National not so good, from over six years.
Yes, National had the GFC and the Earthquakes to contend with, but where is the detailed policy that has been worked on since, to ensure NZ moves up the OECD rankings, not down? Why is it so hard to balance the govt budget, long after the GFC? Why are our exports mostly commodity-based still? Where would we be if we couldn't borrow heavily from offshore to shore up our overspending ways, on assets that are usually not truly productive?
Any time I see an expensive new car on the road, a house being purchased as a rental, a farm being idly used as a safe deposit and capital gain vehicle, I think of the smart businesses that didn't get started and sustained with that capital. Businesses that employ people, pay taxes along the way, export niche value-added goods offshore. If the government of the day doesn't actively promote those ideas, they have to go.
Nearly all over and Peters will win by more than 4.000
EZ - you be very happy tonight eh
Think Nat Gvt need to be in a law banning over 70 year olds to stand in elections.
Hope somebody else packs sad or ha been naughty so we can another by-election. They good fun at the moment. Nats would lose wherever it would be
My apologies to Mr Peters ....he is a few weeks off 70
Still a great effort by the old bugger
Possibly this is good for national. Winston will now prove over the next few years if that change was good for NZ. How's that worked with Winston historically? Goldcard good, the rest???
So it is clear Winston First (only) won this by-election. But I think Labour are the real losers alongside National. Winston wil now become the real Leader of the Opposition and silly Andrew Little is a goner. Dunne ,ACT,Maori Party are up., Labour down the gurgler.
I reckon Key should put the hard word on Dunne on the RMA and a couple of other bills or simply call a general election and let people decide
Slimwin, how on earth can you spin this positively for National. There is nothing, absolutely no positive in this for National. A hell of a lot of people were voting against National not voting for Peters & says it all. Agree re Labour, although difficult to say with them backing Peters. In the GE Prime reduced the margin & she would have substantially here if Peters hadn't stood, but very unlikely she would have won it. Early days for Little & so far I think he has done an ok job and is gathering an increasing amount if respect. However he has inherited a party that has been in disarray for some time, so its not going to happen overnight. Basically the jury is still out on Little.
Sorry Iceman, no the biggest loser is by far National. Take the blinkers off.
Many people up here were openly apologizing for not voting Labour as they wanted to vote strategically to get rid of National.
Prime was a very popular candidate.
Congratulations to Ria Bond, the likely new Southland list MP of NZ First. She is the next on the NZ First list with Winston having now his own electorate (though we don't know yet, whether she will accept the new job)! If she does, I am sure she will be highly committed to the people of Northland who brought her into office.
Actually, I am wondering whether the people currently rejoicing with this election result will really turn out to be the ultimate winners of this election?
So lets see:
The people of Northland get the candidate they voted for. Did they win though? Actually, I don't know, but I can't remember Winston doing a lot for his previous constituencies (Tauranga), so why should it be different this time? On the other hand - never before this election heard of the National candidate, and at the end it probably doesn't really matter whether Osborne from Northland or Bond from Southland (Invercargill) are now drawing a MP's salary (remember - nothing changes for Peters, he is already a sitting MP, just slipping from List-MP to directly elected).
The people of New Zealand - actually, I do see some winners here. National stopped to listen to the people (same as Helen in her third term). This election might act as a warning shot in front of their bow - and who knows, maybe the current government starts to consider again the wishes of the people (ever the optimist ...).
The Green / Left: They are rejoicing the most ... and I am not quite sure whether they really won. Winston is clearly neither Green nor Left - and the past shows that he is very happy to work with the people offering him the bigger baubles ...
National: Will be interesting to see how they are playing it, but this event very well might be a healing shock for a party which slowly stopped to listen to the people. If they get the message (Thanks Winston) than this might be the key event helping them to get their act again together, restart to listen and continue their reign come 2017. Two and a half years should be plenty to regroup and improve.
I guess time will tell - but nothing better than a lost election to keep politicians on their toes.
It's a wake up call along way out from an election Daytr. The ball is in their court to be better now. This can be that call, or the start of the rot. I still don't see who can govern NZ better at the moment and the polls for ALL of NZ reflect the same. It's not all about Northland, as much as Northlanders wish it could be.
No blinkers daytr. National lost like I said but there is no win here for Labour. It will be very difficult for Winston to keep this conservative seat at the general election if voters up there think that will assist in forming a Labour lead Government ! But for now he will be busy getting the promised rail link and the promised new port
Craic, I have a link here for donations to Maungatautari, the local ecological reserve. I had a visit there before Christmas, still looks like a worthy cause to me.
http://www.maungatrust.org/Donate_Online.cfm
Nice touch ez.
Slimwin, sure agree, whether Key takes any notice is another thing & I agree its far more reaching than Northland, although I think the majority of the swing can be put down to people thinking locally first, nationally second. There is perhaps a slight win for Labour in regards such a large swing against National but that's probably a bit tenuous. But there is no comparison what this means to National vs what it means for Labour. One got knocked out on the first round & one retired before the fight. Yeah the next election will be interesting, however I would suggest a lot of people voted for him because they are sick of being taken for granted & I would suggest they wont be in future, so mission accomplished.
Great result for the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party candidate getting more votes (85) than the ACT party candidate (66 votes). Both parties about as relevant as each other.
"A governing party, polling in the high 40s, should not have to pull out all the campaigning stops to hold the ground it took more-or-less effortlessly at the preceding seven elections. When fleets of ministerial cars are forced to cruise the backroads of a safe National seat, disgorging dripping barrels of reeking political pork at every stop, just to beat back a man on the cusp of turning 70, then something’s gone very seriously wrong."
Chris Trotter sums it up. Even Whale oil has picked himself up from the floor and is criticizing the National Party.
westerly
David vs Goliath that's for sure & history repeated
ElZ if you want me to forward the money to that trust, I will do so or if you email me some numbers, I will send it direct to you. Ironically, I have just opened a letter from Link with details of a dividend of $921 for Contact shares that I thought I had sold before the record date but it must been after the record date. So "The Lord Giveth and the Lord taketh away" but I am not so sure that that will work for Northland.
PS I was once a fully paid up member of WP's party.
ironically
Hello Craic, very good, just send direct to MEIT as though it's from you, they are always needing funds, it'll help feed the Kakas.
I thought my bet was safe when Winston turned up with a big signwritten bus, a slogan and a sound track. They were all inspired. Couple that with some newfound understanding from regional voters, and National were history up North.
Nice one Craic. Its a bit hard to take away what you have never received. That was a lot of people's comment. Well we can't be any worse off!
You are so one eyed, you should become a pirate. Tauranga is booming and Peters has to be given some credit for that, like him or not.
Northland now has Winston Peters as its MP not someone from Southland, so we now have a high profile MP rather than a novice that no one had heard of representing a party that abandoned Northland long ago. We had nothing to lose. And something does change which you fail to recognize through your one eye & its fundamental. Winston Peters represents Northland & he is the leader of his party. Northland is actually on the map purely because he stood. We used to get one day of publicity a year, Waitangi day, now that will change to & we will start getting a fair share of funding & attention.
I just updated a chart of employee and enterprise numbers. You can see the brisk rate of improvement under Labour, the drop back and slow recovery under National. So now, we're back to where we were in 2008. Except there's been a population increase meanwhile.
Nats got more votes at some booths
http://northland-byelection.newsapps.nz/#/
Interesting too look back at last 2 elections
Daytr, I wish you well. I remember that Winston used to compare himself some days ago with Konrad Adenauer (first chancellor of West Germany after WWII). I give him that he is now reaching the age when Adenauer first took his post as chancellor (well, still 4 years to go - Adenauer started with age 73), but I sincerely wish for Northland that Winston will as well reach Adenauer's political format. Still somewhat lacking at current, I'd say. But than - with people like you as his constituents, nobody will notice anyway. You seem to be easy to please :p. I hope you enjoy every day of Winston being your personal MP. If you want to do the rest of NZ a favour - please keep him!
Black Peter, words fail me, the lunacy of some of your posts. Complete waste of time.
Just a quick note on soaring government debt under National. There is a misconception that Government income via tax etc plummeted during the GFC.
They did level off & dip slightly for a couple of years but since then have soared & yet government debt continues to grow & they have also sold billions of dollars of assets. Anyone can borrow money to fund a program, the test is can you re-pay it & and this point there is no indication from National that this is even close to be the case.
NZ Government income since 2000 to 2014.
Year Tax receipts 2000 36,001 2001 38,002 2002 41,199 2003 44,040 2004 48,015 2005 52,626 2006 55,198 2007 59,323 2008 57,673 2009 55,388 2010 56,397 2011 58,327 2012 62,217 2013 66,347 2014 70,609
Northland - I'd be worried if I was Labour.
Labour - Willow-Jean Prime 1,315. One of their better candidates.
If someone wants to protest they will now vote NZ First. Not only will Labour drop 1% in polls because of Northland lots of other Labour voters will switch to NZ First in polls.
Little turned chicken, Chicken Little.
And now Winston says he may not replace the NZ First list place which means the National majority stays the same and Little gave away the Labour votes for nothing.
And Winston has no power to implement any of his $400 million of promises. Heh heh heh. New port? New railway? New fast train?
MVT, I think you & BlackPeter should form a comedy duo. Your posts are obviously satirical right? They have little bearing on reality so I can only assume that is the case. ;-) Only one eyed National supporters could spin this result that its worse for Labour than National. It was a massive black eye for Key & National, there is no other way of putting it. Labour in the end openly endorsed Peters & that is why the victory was so big & it would have been a close run thing without that endorsement. It was only after that endorsement that the polls for Peters surged to a 20 point lead from a small lead prior. But according to some here, people say one thing & vote another. Well that didn't happen. And when there is a massive reduction in National support of over 5k votes from memory, somehow its worse for Labour than National. Don't get me wrong this result was no endorsement for Labour, but it was a vote of no confidence in National.
In regards the parliamentary numbers actually it makes no difference having the additional member in regards who National would need to support a bill, otherwise I assure you Peters wouldn't be considering not bringing in the extra MP. Its consistent with their policy of a smaller parliament. Personally I think they should bring in the additional MP as you never know what can happen between now & the next election.
Jeez, what's happened to EZ? He and Daytr really must be the same person.....
Major
As usual you never fail to make the best of a bad political outcome for National.
NATIONAL WAS DEFEATED. I recall your hero John Key proclaiming that Winston " had absolutely no chance" in Northland.
I don't resile from my longstanding predictions in these posts.
1) John Key is in the " legacy mode" of his career. He will not contest the 2017 General election if he has any perception that his government will be defeated.
2. John Key very much wants to be the next High Commissioner to London / or ambassador in Washington.
3. Michael Woodhouse or Paula Bennett are plotting already to push him out.
4.The expensive $26 million flag referendum farce will be spectacular defeat for John Key.
5. Major Von Tempsky will disagree with all of the above
Not sure, whether this assumption is fair to EZ. EZ is normally polite and comes across as honest. I even have seen him admitting mistakes.
Not sure I made so far the same observations with daytr (hey, just try to be honest as well ...), so they clearly behave differently but who knows - maybe they are a Jekyll - Hyde personality? And maybe Daytr is just going through a difficult phase in life ... ?
MVT & Black Peter, in their own little imaginary world. Write a novel perhaps, unless what we have seen to date is the start of that ?
BlackPeter, your post implies that I have been dishonest.
Any evidence of this? Of course not, because its just a nasty little snipe without foundation.
How about continuing your honesty & admit your justification for National getting this country into hock was
1) an elementary mistake in math to the tune of circa $15Bln!
2) that you cannot blame Labour a party that hasn't been in government for seven years for the debt that National is racking up.
But no I suspect you are happy to live in your little world and no matter what happens its someone else's fault.
Anyone but National or John Key's fault anyway.
I suppose that makes sense as John Key sets the example by taking no responsibility for his actions.
From your almighty leaders own mouth. Get some guts !
Sgt Pepper, If your No3, proved correct pity help National if Paula Bennett became leader. She was Winston's best campaigner in the by-election! LOL
3. Michael Woodhouse or Paula Bennett are plotting already to push him out.
Incorrect - I just made some complimentary comments about some other poster who has been compared to you.
I finished with stating that I haven't yet noticed the same positive attributes in your posts (and maybe I should confine this to this thread).
On the other hand - I must admit, that the way you occasionally tend to express yourself in your posts (and in some cases the apparent lack of reflection before you post whatever you do) is quite unique for a self-claimed "professional".
BlackPeter, you object to people that have a different view to yourself. I have seen this over and over again on the stock threads when I have shorted stocks & it obviously gets up your nose. I don't proclaim to be anything, another figment of a very fertile imagination.
So no comment in regards the National debt & your argument to justify it that was picked apart in about 30 seconds or your ludicrous attempts to blame Labour for the hock that National & John Key is getting this country in.
Perhaps reflect on that.
You need to lift your game, as you are looking very desperate in your attempt to smear people, just because they make your very light weight arguments look quite silly.
Another thing picked up from your leader perhaps?
Look Daytr, are you sure you are not mixing things up?
Yes, we might have in some areas different political views, but I don't think this is an excuse for you to harass other posters. I experience your posts not just as as rude and offensive - you make as well things up. Propose you start focussing on playing the ball and not the player ...
Really. For not the first time you make accusations or snide remarks without anything to back them up, whilst accusing me of getting personal.
You can't see the irony in you own posts?
To suggests someone's argument is ludicrous or silly maybe difficult to hear, I get that.
Best remedy, don't post the silly argument in the first place.
Cheers Daytr.
so i have been reading this thread and it seemed like i was reading this thread from a year ago and then.....
daytr gets banned....... is it because of what he said or who he is?
belg comes to mind...... and if so...... the post count from 2 handles are really up there.
its seems some folks have too much time on their hands.
anyway..... interesting times ahead with winston winning.....
look forward to the next couple of years.
as some others have said..... winston winning now could be a very timely wake up call for national.
im sure all NZers will be looking at this result and asking a few questions and watching more closely
what national does from now till the next election.
and for that matter...... what the other parties do from now till then.
IMHO national got a punch in the face and a standing 3 count.
the voters got a full view of weakness and are now paying attention.
national is still the favourite..... but the game is far more interesting now.
and where is mr little?
winston is taking the fight to national on his own ..... full well knowing he cant be prime minister.
maybe depute prime minister....... under ??
winston is known for being the kingmaker.......
who shall he choose?
key or little
key tried too hard to whoo the northland vote and failed.....
little encouraged his support voters to betray their party.......
what will winston do?
Winston should look to a party that is keen on small business and in developing the regions, along with urban areas. A party that has demonstrated they know how to grow the pie for everyone, not just pretend that they are doing something. This party will also have some ideas for bringing along those with the least resources, because we all know that jobs and opportunities are empowering. That would really be sending National a message.
Thanks napoleoll. Like you, I don't doubt for one minute that daytr is belgarion returned in disguise but apparently he has moved to Northland and become an ex know it all. I feel sorry for him and EZ ,the gullible supporter !!!
?? I am an informed supporter, I have the stats behind me, Iceman.
I don't think Daytr is Belgarian, although they both have occasional spelling/typo issues. Belgarian had a lot more of the facts taken on board already. Why you guys think there could only be a couple of lefties in all of NZ, is beyond me. Think grey, not black and white :)
Here is an extract from a BBC report on the French elections where the Socialists are getting a very big beating from the right wing UMP.
"The French left, like the left everywhere, has always been prone to subdivision.
Now the rebellious faction of the Socialists is joining with the radical Left Front of Jean-Luc Melenchon to call for an end to Mr Hollande's mildly pro-market reforms.
We lost because we stopped being true to our left-wing selves, is the argument. "
This a very illogical reaction from left wings everywhere. They don't lose because they aren't left wing enough, they lose because they are too left wing. If they react by becoming more left wing then they are going to lose by even more next time.
Morons.
Major
There is always a deafening silence from you regarding Social Democrat governments. I can understand this as socially and economically successful left of centre governments I guess pose a bit of an ideological dilemma for you. I know it must be difficult reconciling how such economic basket cases, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway Sweden and Finland who consistently elect social democrat administrations can develop such advanced multinational companies. I work in the health sector, Novo Nordisk is the largest insulin producer, profit last year : 25 billion One of many examples. Those social democrat lefties must be doing something right!!
Yes, they are doing several things right....
(a) they allow democracy
(b) they allow the rule of law
(c) they allow a free Press and media
(d) they allow free enterprise and no longer nationalize firms but in fact have been privatizing them
(e) they allow themselves to be replaced as the government by free enterprise governments from time to time.
In fact it was my impression that in recent years this had been happening more and more, in fact I clearly remember when it happened in Sweden....
Sweden has only just gone back to a left wing govt. And the the foreign minister has just picked a fight with one of their biggest paymasters.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/...ncerns-us-all/
Finland have done very well on basically one company. How's that for diversification.
http://www.economist.com/node/21560867
And Norway has the oil of course.
Without looking into too much, last I heard was Netherlands politics are a basket case and the economy not so flash either.
Forget all that - I need some general advice. My daughter has recently forsaken Labour and joined the Green Party. What should I do? :eek2:
Blame yourself. :)
She may grow out of it. I was a fully paid up and active member of greenpeace once. I consider it a terrorist organisation now.
Oh yeah, thanks Slimwin, I'll tell her that, it should work?
There were quite a few Labour people around here who were thinking of joining the Greens, after having to work too hard trying to tow the party line. With the Greens, you just need a ukulele I think.
BTW I'm not really anti-greens, but I'm starting to get more focussed about it after my daughter's change of heart. At least they're on the leftie side.
My eldest brother and his son have done the same. I would have thought they were more puritanical.
I don't know about the Greens, but there are quite a few greying Christians in the Labour party, if that's what you mean :). Maybe I'm one?
Bill English getting cagey about the surplus again. The low milk payout is not going to help, that's for sure. It's not taxes from farmers that will be missed, that's usually sorted out by a range of methods. But it's their external expenditure, of which some ends up as taxes, that will be reduced a lot in the quarters ahead.
http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/7478...y+1+April+2015
You should point out to her that Communism has been tried and failed, that the Berlin Wall fell.
One of my daughters voted for Colin Craig's Conservatives. Yecchhh! I hope she recovers her enquiring mind soon.
Once upon a time when I was contemplating the impossible,a friendly barber urged me on. "I wouldn't get a contractor in NZ to carry it out" was met with "garth Mc Vicar - he'll do it" Now, twenty years later, I"m sitting in a house on the top of a hill up an almost impassable driveway writing this from the house that Garth Mc Vicar moved.My wife and I voted for him this election. I had quite a lot of dealings with him in and around the Napier Court.
Mc vicar is a fundamentalist and will only ever be popular for a brief time. Same as Craig and the left equivalents.
Untold kiwi families have a lot to thank Mr McVicar for in bringing a whole lot more justice to these shores where ALL the politicians failed by only paying lip service to dealing with the scum and vermin who think its their right to kill,rape and injure ordinary citizens.
Quite right FP, I meant 'toe the party line'. In the Energy newsletter today, someone commented it's a good thing that Winston got in, now the hawkish side of the National Party won't be able to make fundamental, possibly poorly planned and short-term changes to the RMA. Developers will still have to do the right thing, correct?
Good question - the cynics in me would say that she didn't change her political views at all - all the same, but if we ignore the cynics in me for a moment: Children tend to have a phase where they grow up and try to be just different from their parents. You could join the Greens as well, maybe this would cure her? But I guess the more important question is what do you want to achieve? If it is a healthy family life and a good relationship to your daughter, than maybe you should do nothing - and look forward to more interesting political discussions in the circle of your family.
Look at it from the bright side - what would you do if she would have joined The Conservatives, ACT or National instead?
Not sure, whether it is so easy ... Yes, there are some really bad people out there who better belong for long times behind bars.
Unfortunately its not always easy to distinguish between the real bad ones and the ones who have just been at the wrong time at the wrong place - and to distinguish these from the ones who have just been framed by a sometimes corrupt and / or out of their depth police force and justice system.
Did you notice that the punishment tends to get harsher if the system is not really sure, whether the convicted person was really at fault?
As well - McVicar and some of the supportive lynch mob don't seem to accept that people can change over time. Admittedly not everybody, but some do.
Yes - it is terrible to be the innocent victim of a crime. It is however as well terrible to be innocently locked up (and this is something which takes much longer to suffer - can you imagine how you would feel to be without guilt for decades behind bars)?
Personally I think New Zealand would be a better (and more humane) place without McVicar and this self-righteous mob.
Thanks for the advice BlackPeter. I'm pleased she's showing some independent thought, and if I didn't back Labour, the Greens would be next for me. I think the people involved will be more in her tribe than Labour's. Yes, I'd be mortified if she voted National, ACT or Conservative, but there's not much chance of that, she's done her research :)
Craic, great to hear about your donation to Maungatautari. It's a place well worth a visit if you're travelling through the lower Waikato sometime.
"With the Greens, you just need a ukulele I think."
Love it! Love it!
How very apt and accurate.
I have a lot of time for Metiria Turei, she seems to be full of fun, and she's smart too.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11301085
More on ukuleles and other things.
http://www.metromag.co.nz/current-af...n-diary-day-3/
Who is Belg? Imaginations run wild on this thread.
The sun is shining in Winnie country. ;-)