A (upto) seven year loan with the interest accumulating!
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
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Yes I noticed that too PT. It appears nothing was learned from the GFC. One of the main issues in regard to finance companies coming unstuck was what you're alluding too, capitalising interest, (usually on property development loans). This coming in a week when the Reserve bank expressed concern with the additional $3.5 billion of new farm loans raised this year.
This strikes me as a quasi home equity release type product, perhaps some sort of veiled acknowledgement the HER division has underperformed expectations ?
One would hope the LVR limits have been set at a far more conservative level than the rest of their rural book at 61% otherwise with capitalising interest and declining farm prices it won't take long for Mr and Mrs Farmer to be underwater.
https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/a...g-2-2-mln.html
"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."
Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/a...g-2-2-mln.html
"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."
Looks like its on move up slowly.....don't wanna jinx anybody though. Some big player might come and change it all over.
https://nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/269858
Chris Mace (Director) buying on market 713k shares. not bad.
Not surprised... Heartland's trading at a huge discount, directors/management see this, amazing Mr Market doesn't (similar to ARV)...
What is surprising is that Aussie banks are all doing very well today and heartland's barely keeping in the green...
This makes no sense to me, according to todays, above announcement, Chris Mace had no beneficial ordinary shares in HNZ before purchasing the 713k shares.
However on the 30 June 2014 according to the annual report of HNZ he had over 12mil shares in this class. I could not find any NZX announcements of Chris Mace having traded in the period between 30 June 2014 and today so unless I missed something we should expect a correction soon.
Thanks PT, comprehension was never a strength of mine.
Were I stopped reading and obviously still missing something is at the beginning of the announcement.
Summary of acquisition or disposal of relevant interest (excluding specified derivatives). It then talks about ordinary shares. And numbers held in class before acquisition or disposal being zero.
Would you like to explain this further, cheers forest
Thanks Harvey, now I understand. :)
While Chris Mace has bought 713k shares, institutional holders continue to offload. Nearly 10m last month.
It has been an interesting past month for transactions. Institutional off-loading compared with three insider purchases.
Maybe there has been an outflow from managed funds - retail investors being spooked or whatever and withdrawing their investments. Maybe some Kiwisavers have been transferring their funds from growth units to balanced or conservative units. There has been/ still is a risk-off environment. Management/directors are in tune (hopefully) with the actual business environment for the company.
One of the other directors bought 5 million shares a few months back at $1.30 when the private equity guys sold out. Director buying in decent volume isn't always a sign that the SP will head north.
Big buy orders coming thro' at $1.15 and $1.14 now.
Maybe Mr Market has realised what I (and a few others) have been saying these past weeks?
Trying to jump on the band waggon before Heartland begins jumping into the 1.20's and 1.30's
yes could be... for me I think I will participate in the DRP this time, to cheap to miss...
Big volumes through today around $1.16 mark.
Significant.??
Annual meeting put off for 5 weeks from Friday 6th November to 11th December.??!!!!! ??????????????????
"Something in the air"?
Last time they did this was when they thought they would have the banking licence by the later date.
The thirsty ones will be disappointed by the early 1.30 pm start.May be lucky to get a cup of tea.
Where are all these sell orders at $1.16 coming from??
And what does everyone think of delaying the shareholders meeting? (good or bad?)
The sell orders are coming from people in the know,realising Heartland must be facing very difficult times,if it comes to moving the time of the meeting from 4pm to 1.30pm.It is a give away.They can't afford the booze bill!!!
What is the point of owning HNZ shares if there is no booze up?
A cup of tea and a scone.!!
Moving the meeting closer to Xmas is again a give away.People are too busy in December to go to a "dry" meeting.! lol.
[QUOTE=nextbigthing;590805]The sell orders are coming from people and institutions that want to sell.
Some Kiwisaver funds will have clients will shifting from growth/equity to more conservative funds as the "market" has received a bunch of negative media recently.
Some will have to sell down to balance their portfolios.
I apologise folks. Clearly big Rodge drank them dry last year. Poor move on their part. Too long from date of profit announcement till date of ASM..plenty more will be known about dairy delinquencies by then and a possible Fitch downgrade. The least HNZ could have done is have a booze up so shareholders can drown their sorrows. This is a cost saving measure, clearly times are tough at HNZ.
You only reset if you have a good reason . I am a substantial holder and this a good company with a very good management team . I look forward to the meeting
Keeping well clear of Melbourne Cup and Show Weeks....
Here's one for all the Worry Warts on here ......................some in the stock market for the wrong reasons.
Specifically for this company though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
Bobby Mcferrin has it nailed!!:t_up:
Any chartists out there want to comment about the $1.16 price today? A breakout or a blip?
Isee that TURNERS are making a bid for 20% of MTF.
Weren't HNZ at one stage trying to buy MTF.
Yes they were last year.
Until the result of the court case appeal is known,no-one knows what the actual liability is,so TNR are game.
Most of the owner dealers of MTF are Turner's competitors,so TNR's increasing their holding to near 20% will most probably work against the other MTF shareholders interest.
It will stop someone like HNZ taking over MTF.Had HNZ taken over MTF it would have been a good bolt on for HNZ, and the MTF dealers would have had a bank financing their deals.
In the meantime, Chris Mace (Director) increases his holding to 1ml shares through latest purchase.
I am a believer that a log price axis is the only true price axis to have on a chart and thus in my book HNZ really busted it's uptrend a while ago and I should not be holding the vast holding that I do indeed hold.
But looking at this google finance chart with added green line:
Attachment 7601
well I wonder if you all are linearists and are happily keeping that (false) trend intact for a while longer. :rolleyes:
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Disc: HNZ still #1 in the Tiger Pawfolio.
Ex dividend and already going up again, wouldn't be surprising to see this back at $1.16 by the end of the week (I mean it should really be well above this already...)
As I am a new investor to heartland, how does the price for the DRP get determined? (at such low prices, I have elected for the DRP over cash dividend)
Below is the extract from company's results announcement statement issued recently.
Hope this helps.
"The Dividend Reinvestment Plan (DRP) will be available and a discount of 1% will apply (that is, the strike price under the DRP will be 99% of the volume weighted average sale price of Heartland shares over the 5 trading days following the Record Date)."
No arguments from me with your HNZ chart post...Log scale would be better than your linear chart example shown above because the price has moved rapidly and constantly (~x3) over the 3 year period...but remember PT there are reasons why some charts are drawn in a linear scale and there are other reasons why some charts are drawn on a log scale....that is why there are 2 formats for us chartists to use... logarithmic and linear.....We are given a choice depending on what we want to do with the chart...try drawing BB and S+R lines and show a the Linear distinct H&S pattern on a 6 year log chart for DIL ..The H&S pattern is not noticeable using the log scale
All my HNZ charts are linear because I haven't drawn in a long term trend line and being a chart pattern chartist linear charts suits me better ......Long term Trend lines are only one indicator and as indicators go they are over-rated and often they break and have to be adjusted..as the saying goes .."one should never rely on a single indicator"..Also primary trendlines are usually late to signal as was the case for HNZ.
Refering to my 17th June 2015 post#5267 HNZ chart many TA indicators fired sell signals back in February at $1.35,,because of the rapid rise the EMA's were late to fire..The failure of the next rally to break $1.37 resistance forming a lower high in March was a confirmation sell signal and a later lower low of $1.27 saw a forming of a descending channel...
2 months later in May the continuing descending channel saw the breaking of the EMA's... firing more sell signals
The log primary trend line broke on 23rd June at $1.20...4 months into the downtrend..This is the example why I'm not a great fan of primary trendlines being used as sell signals ditto for EMA200...so often its around this area that a correction ends and you've waited and watched the descent then sold only to see the share price reverse back up into a new uptrend.
Some TA investors would have exited in February and the rest would've waved the white flag after the failed rally in May Red dotted line on my chart..
Now for the better news.....some TA indicators have fired off buy signals last week for the first time this year..early days yet but there's faint signs of promise emerging..
Hoop.
As always thank you for your comments.
Is there a correlation between these TA indicators firing up buy signals,and the return of Paper Tiger to HNZ thread.?
100 day MA is currently $1.21.
We must also remember the longer the time frame,the more reliable the indicator is.
The 500 day EMA for HNZ is $1.087,which confirms the long term uptrend remains intact.
Forget all the Technical Analysis Rubbish...
The Tiger Still Likes Heartland - that is all you need to know.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
This post has been scanned for traces of sarcasm - the result is off the scale
HNZ still interested in MTF according to announcement today.
A very clear announcement,that spells out the issues very simply.
Didn't the directors just buy some more? Gee, I wonder why that could be?
Yep...
MA200 is sometimes recognised as a confirmation point for a new cyclic bear or bull tide....As an bear tide confirming indicator it can be too late but it is handy as a confirmation for a bull tide as it seems to be early enough...When a stock is bottoming out with a double or triple bottom pattern the MA200 can make a very useful variable S&R line...
The MA200 number can be different to say using 250 because 200 being commonly used it will have a trading effect therefore act as a S&R line.
The MA200 is a great hindsight indicator:)....It's used in textbooks illustrating cyclic reversals to a bear market + the later capitulation with great effect ..Unfortunately in practice that MA200 illustration is useless because of the too late lagging effect and also sometime the MA200 break happens just before a price rally indicating an end of a bull market correction......... ..Traders would use leading indicators and other more sensitive indicators and would "out" before the MA200 fires the sell signal..
As a chartist I find the MA200 usefulness comes into play less often than other indicators...I find the trend of the MA200 can be as useful...
MA200 is best used as data for specific purposes...
e.g...I use it as it is a component (NYA200r) in my sentiment indicator set up (seen on the S&P500 thread) to predict a bull market correction or a cyclic reversal
As far as HNZ goes..
MA200 was hopelessly inaccurate up to April 2012 until due to the restructure..
In June 2015 it was too late as a sell signal.. but it did signal HNZ change to Bear market status as it confirmed the log primary trendline break at $1.20..This change of status theoretically meant that investors would now swap their investing strategies from Bull market sailing strategies (e.g Buy and hold) to the more active Bear market rowing strategies (e.g buy at support sell at resistance)...
After many years of inaction the MA200 role will be more useful, more important as it will be:
1...a lot quicker to confirm a cyclic reversal to create a new primary uptrend (change of status back to Bull market)
2...or...act as a resistance area in a continuing bear market status
Often it pays to use a different EMA for different companies.
Back testing will give you the best EMA to use for each company.
Yes....also true for TA indicators..the default setting is only the combined best fit overall for medium term investing..
I'm basically lazy so near enough is good enough...however some TA badily behaved stocks have motivated me to fiddle around with the settings...But mostly I can't bothered and I simply leave these TA naughty stocks well alone................plenty of other well behaved fish in the sea
Thanks Hoop. Clear break up through the 200 day MA will be required to reignite my interest in HNZ.
P.S. WOW who smashed out all the buyers and dropped a whole bundle to smack it down at close at $1.09 ?
Nah, can't be Percy he's still happy because apparently the 500 day MA is $1.087. Will he be using the 1000 day MA next week, that's the question ?
I guess you could make that argument since when they first listed in 2011 they were mid 80's so if our friend want to go to the moving average max there's definitely an increase of a "whopping" 28% in four years. Interestingly I just had a look at how that hardly spectacular increase over 4 years compares with ANZ, NAB, WBC and BEN..all those banks have been pretty lacklustre performers in recent years.
Financials no longer flavour of the decade in a post GFC environment ?
Promising start to the day for HNZ, but we'll see what happens this PM .Go's to show what an overreaction friday's selldown was . Seems to happen whenever an announcement is made by the company whether good, bad or otherwise!
Announcement today from MTF regarding the Turners offer and the HNZ letter in my opinion appeared to favour HNZ.Now i could be completly wrong having spent 2 years in the fifth form but thats how i have read it.Maybe somebody better educated could offer their opinion.
Now we've had 3 positive increases in the GDT auction price its taken some of the heat out of the prospect for a severe effect on bad debtors in their dairy loan book but I think the complete lack of extra general provisioning in this area of their balance sheet was a very interesting call for the directors to make at balance date. I am not as bearish as I was when dairy was completely in / "down" ? the toilet but where not out of the woods yet by any stretch of the imagination and this is definitely not a "back the truck up situation".
All the banks in Australasia have come under pressure lately as nobody believes their bad and doubtful debt provisioning is adequate and serious questions remain over the veracity of their provisioning assumptions. HNZ are still vulnerable to a Fitch downgrade in my opinion all the more so since S&P downgraded so many other banks and they've warned on dairy before. Shareholders will be keenly hoping the GDT prices keep going north and the worst is already behind us. I think HNZ are only fair value at present with little prospect of any SP appreciation unless dairy recovers significantly. If dairy stops going up or Fitch downgrades we could easily see $1.00 IMO.
Big volumes thro today, almost 5ml shares so far, thoughts?
The wife's dividend is in "OUR" account.....lol.
Just under 20% of divi taken as drip @ $1.11
Can anyone tell me when the dividend,paid yesterday should be seen to be in an account?
Much abliged for any help.
Mine was paid just after 4pm yesterday.
Yeah I have changed address so maybe things don't tie up,I tried to sell a parcel of shares and because my addy wasn't changed they refused to accept the order,after the fact though,not as I was doing it so i would know haha.
I go away for a month and come back to find that the downtrend is still in place
Probably still be 110-115 this Christmas
I highly doubt they delayed the meeting because of bad news...
[QUOTE=ziggy415;593052]should know the reason for the change of date for the agm by then ...will the reason be good news or bad....tier two capital raising maybe for buy back...exciting times ahead[/QUOTE
The Surpreme Court liability judgement about MTF's Sportzone loans is due late November. HNZ can not make an offer for MTF until that liability is known, as they've said in recent announcement. This could be the reason for delayed AGM
Quite right, them getting to 20% is not an absolute given but I would have thought with the unresolved Sportzone matter and the decision by the High Court currently standing against them some MTF shareholders will be keen to cash in their chips. I am surprised by the High Court's stance and I am sure some shareholders in MTF are too. Turners have first mover advantage over HNZ but I think given the legal proceedings their offer looks a little reckless in the circumstances.
Futures indicating some more relief coming in the next GDT auction result...maybe some more dairy farmers might scrape their way through...