and the biggest one is right in front of your nose--the sharemarket
Printable View
You're forgetting something corran. Stocks represent companies that make and do things.
You think that will stop them from getting hammered when the bubble pops?
Attachment 5138Here's a problem for you to solve skid.
Spot the bubble.
Tapering will hit Gold simply because everyone expects it to--but in the last six months alot have either gotten tired of the bad news ,or truly believe that things are on the mend(even though the elephant is still in the room) and because there has been easy money around,it has gone into the share market and IMO has become very overbought. There are starting to be more who are uncomfortable with the warning signs,but not the mainstream.
I believe the fear will return when the right catalyst comes along as there are alot of things wrong out there.
Theres not much ''back up''--the structure that holds the whole thing up is got some serious rot.
Id rather see gold tank and my other assets keep motoring on,but Im concerned enough to keep physical gold as insurance.
so back to your question--the simple answer is the masses are thinking that things are ''sweet'' so why bother with gold, and as long as things stay ''sweet''(on the surface) they will be right....but will things stay sweet when there is no more prop ups?(QE)
And when some economic crises (or political) comes along (or just no more QE3)and the basic economic structure is not strong enough to keep it stable, then that fear may come back with a vengeance.----or we may cruise for another x years and our kids will have the nightmare.-----thays my take at least
I'm not seeing any incentive for the US Fed to taper - why would they? The downside for the Big Banks and other Corporate boys far outweighs any upside. They've tapered twice before (down to zero!) and look where that led - to a much larger QE (i.e. buying back $85b of US bonds per month via QE3 - i.e. money printing).
Like cocaine, those making it very rich are too addicted to cheap credit and the corporate profits it brings to let Bernanke, Yellen or anyone else blow away the smokescreen. Even if real inflation starts to become a problem (not yet since purchasing power and consumer demand is barely rising) or employment dramatically improves (not likely short-term), the Fed and other power brokers will find it very difficult (i.e. it will be a career limiting move) to stop digging our economies into the very large black hole that's gaping wider each month with an uncertain future, many surprises and unforseen effects (this hasn't successfully been done before - massive borrowing and bond buying - it runs against tried and true economic practice).
Don't be swept up by the rhetoric, where's the evidence that this is fiscally sustainable?
in my view, as we get more and more accepting of QE, a more likely scenario is that QE is increased in size beyond the current $85b/month. If some is good, more is better - yes?
Yeah, right.
I dont think any sane economist really believes its fiscally sustainable (some probably prefer to just look the other way)
Most know it will eventually hit the fan(but those in control know better than to talk about it)
Its really more an issue of WHEN--So far they have decided its better to postpone it as long as possible and let the kids pay.(Not their kids of course-The everyday workers Kids)
Here's an interesting article re why the Germans and others demanding physical gold, and the Americans scurrying around to find it has not led to higher PoG. Fort Knox I would say has very little bullion that is still owned by Americans.
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/conte...0618&sn=Detail
Short-dominated Gold Futures, the convenience of ETFs (since traders no longer have to analyse the fair value of various PM stocks), lazyness, gullibility of the masses thanks to mainstream media promoting the political rhetoric of vested interests (in taking the price of PMs lower for future profit) and over confidence in world peace and economic improvement are all factors. We have been misled. Last night's spike to 1250USD is a sign that people are starting to get wind of this.
It will be interesting with the AUD 5% lower over the past 10 days to see how Aussie digger stock prices lift today.
BC
Hi from Sydney all,
Blackcap, I think you are missing the point. (perhaps not) With QE commodities were the first to benefit & then the share market started to bubble. Gold has been flogged because shares have gone ballistic. So the same punters that are driving equities higher through the shift in QE stimulus are either selling their ETF holdings or shorting gold. Hence in my view tapering will mean less stimulus will be available to be directed into shares & the current trade of long equities / short gold will come to an end. If the share market suffers gold will benefit imo.
Nice bounce overnight, be great to see gold back over 1250 to trigger some more short covering.
I never heard back from you on this bet, Skol. Did you not want to put your money where your mouth is?
The price of Gold over the past 12 hours has lifted $30.
Troy (TRY.ASX) yesterday and today tested support at its bottom of 99c. Now lifting. Did you buy some as suggested? Get in matey before this reversing tide starts pulling many others along.
BC
Technically, the Bears' downward trend line was busted overnight at 1,240USD, and since then Gold has touched 1,250USD. Bulls’ next upside price breakout objective is to produce a close above solid technical resistance at last week’s high of 1,258USD. Bears' next near-term downside breakout price objective is closing prices below solid technical support at 1,200USD, which is now looking less likely.
The positive jobs data released last night (ADP nonfarm employment lift of 215k against expectations of only 173k) did very little damage to Gold, and the bottom feeder bulls stepped in soon after to spike Gold up $20 in just one hour.
I'm biased towards another lift tonight once US GDP data is released but more important US economic data is released tomorrow night - nonfarm payrolls and unemployment rate. Gold's response to that data will IMO set its course for the rest of this month.
BC
I won't be buying anything gold or silver thanks, I like being solvent.
TRY looks deader than a dead dingos donger, but thanks for the offer.
Every rise in gold will probably be sold off by speculators anxious to get their money out of the gold millstone before the final capitulation.
SPDR Gold Trust is now down 600 tonnes from it's peak holdings.
US$23,919,600,000 worth of gold.
Looking at the paper gold ETFs for yesterday shows clearly that all the major ETFs are now purchasing, including Skol's favourite (SPDR Gold Trust, which is up 1.7% on the previous day):
http://etfdb.com/type/commodity/prec...tals/gold-etf/
Long may it continue.
Re TRY, there is a seller who for the past three weeks has been selling down to a limit of $1. Once he's done, sure as the sun rises tomorrow morning, this stock price will rise. I'm guessing it will be over $1.10 sometime next week.
Do you want to put a beer on it, Skol?
BC
Daytr,
"it's Thursday, rally night".
lol
Price of Gold was supported off a higher low last night at 1,219USD.
Observe on tab 2 (Gold2) the rising trade volume and low but rising RSI.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-12-05/template_jimw.htm
DJIA and S&P500 also still tracking down further overnight from last week's 16,000+ and 1800+ highs.
China's territory grab with its recently declared East China Sea Air Defense Identification zone is worrying not only Japan, Taiwan and Sth Korea but also the US who senses it may be drawn into the affair militarily.
Tonight's US nonfarm payroll jobs data if lower than expectation may well provide the catalyst required to ignite a bullish run in Gold.
Meanwhile however today's PM trading on the ASX is likely to be flat or slightly down as traders close positions for the weekend.
I'm getting a few buy signals. OGC for example is a quality company with a low forecasted PE and good buying interest from Bearing Point. It was down 7% in Toronto last night and so will provide a buying opportunity today when it likewise drops (into the 150s?) on the ASX.
BC
Read the quote, Skol. The bet was on TRY getting to $1.10 sometime next week. You're a bit ahead of yourself. I'm still confident it will be...provided US employment data tonight has very little shine to it and Equities continue to drift, etc. Let's see. My wager stands but you need to accept or decline by midnight tonight, otherwise it lapses.
BTW, I forget how to embed a graph like you've just done - please remind me.
I said by midnight, Skol, but instead you waited until US employment and Manufacturing Index data were released, saw how positive they were, and only then took up my bet. That's a bit indecorous. You missed the deadline - offer is lapsed.
BTW, it's interesting that with all that upbeat data, the price of Gold is unaffected. This could mean it's found a support base.
Bobcat
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------------------------------
Dow up 198, gold indices down, more of this for you next week bobcat.
Note from Sydney. I caught up with a few market players, share brokers & gold traders. Most were overall quiet bullish on the sector as they think it well oversold & that anything that is so unloved & one sided is likely to bounce back strongly, but not just yet if you take my drift. One of the guys who is head of metals at one of the bigger desks in Sydney & traded for 20 years, thinks there has to be some blood before we see a bottom & I tend to agree with him. We both agreed that both NCM & KCN were the most vulnerable & that the hedgefunds are shorting NCM particularly but also the Barricks etc. His view is they are likely to have another crack at gold to break below the $1180 lows & try & force a trigger on the lending covenants. Brokers which I must admit I don't have as much time for their views generally think that the undervaluation of many of the producers, some valued well below asset backing are great buys, but you may need to put up with some volatility. My view is that a break of $1180 certainly can't be ruled out, however gold isn't sustainable much below that, so even if it does break & head towards $1000, its unlikely to be there for long & would bounce back sharply. Gold is being to a degree forced lower by shorting & that at a point needs to be covered. One other thing that is likely is there will be more hedging by producers but most are looking for $100-200 higher, so if we see that a rally could be capped by producers locking in forward prices. Amasing when you think they refused to hedge at $1600, $1700, $1800 & even $1900 & now the will look to hedge $4-500/toz lower!
Another selloff in SPDR Gold Trust, down another 3 tonnes in 3 days.
Yes, and I'm winning Lotto this week. Daytr thinks he's psychic, like Jim Rickards, Jim Sinclair, Peter Schiff, Mike Maloney and all the other clairvoyants.
A post with absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever, except gold might go up. It might not either, not much in the way of analysis from a gold 'expert'.
Is nobody else surprised that with all the bearish commentary this month, the corresponding nose dive in many miner stocks, and last Friday's better than expected US jobs and consumer data (increasing the likelihood of tapering), the price of gold has for three days now found solid support in the low 1200s?
In fact, if you look at the graph for last week, its lowest price for 5 months (1,212USD) was followed by a higher low at 1,220USD which was tested Friday night and easily held firm. PoG now 1,230USD. If it keeps above 1,225USD at least for 24 hours, this will confirm IMO solid support.
The US Debt ceiling negotiations are not far off, Hedge Funds and others will start to take Equity profits later this week (ahead of Christmas) to make their end-of-year results look good, and China does not look to be backing away from enforcing its new Airspace Identification process for the East China Sea which is creating increasing political and military tensions in Japan, Korea and the USA.
As I posted last week, I'm expecting the price of Gold and Silver to consolidate this week.
ETF trades will adjust accordingly. I'm of the view that ETFs are the cart and not the horse in this regard. The signals will come from elsewhere. At most, ETF holdings merely reflect shifting demand for COMEX and other futures. Their physical backing is dubious and so they merely confirm changing patterns in paper Gold trading - nothing more.
Buy PM stocks - many have been oversold. Get in now and then don't be surprised if Christmas comes early.
BC
Buy PM stocks and lose your fingers catching the falling knife.
From Bloomberg Dec 7th:
-----
Hedge funds and other money managers reduced their bets on price gains for five straight weeks and are the least-bullish since June 2007, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission data showed today. The net-long position was 26,774 New York futures and options contracts by Dec. 3, CFTC data show. Short bets rose for a fifth week to 79,631, near the record in July.
Anybody remember Greenspan?
"Uncertainty now represents the biggest problem plaguing the economy, says former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. "The first and most important issue to recognize in the United States — and it's a problem to an extent in other countries as well — is that the level of uncertainty about the very long-term future is far greater than at any time I particularly remember," Greenspan said.
While the Fed's massive easing program has stabilized much of the economy, "the issue goes beyond that, because, even though we have very major expansion of the balance sheets, it has not essentially spilled over in lending by commercial banks into the usual pattern that one sees when reserves go up," he told CNN's "GPS" program.
So why aren't banks lending more?
It would seem that rather than invest in business and home buying, they'd rather hang onto the stimulus money for more speculative, selfish, derivative plays. This of course simply feeds another derivative bubble. Watch out.
http://www.newsmax.com/StreetTalk/Gr...2/08/id/540682
With the US FOMC meeting in a week's time to decide, amongst other things, whether or not to taper, the uncertainty that Greenspan speaks of can only be increasing. Uncertainty leads to fear - fear boosts the price of precious metals.
And so it is not surpising that Gold has bounced off three higher lows since last Friday's low of 1212: - 1220 (twice) - 1225 - 1227 - and is now holding well at just above 1230. I'm not expecting a repeat of the downward spike in the last week of last June. The PoG has been easing down for several weeks now and so will not take much to trigger a spike upward.
Consolidating this week IMO.
BC
Discl: I've been buying OGC today.
I,ll be a happy trader if this double bottom is in ... Hundreds millions of paper shorts....India elections coming up mid next year local population unhappy with the massive black market margins on gold should be election issue..many major producers hitting the wall mass lay-offs ....average joe being able to buy PM under costs to produce ...overall 2013 been a shockingly bad year for the PM ...how often do we see a metal having a shocking year to turn round the next
I have just been reading all bearish news in Gold from massive exodus from Gold ETF,long /short skew slanting towards bearish side etc etc. And with the Non Farm Payroll showing strength which should have guided Fed to early trimming, gold still bob higher . I think something from left field might just push gold higher over the next few days with unrest in Thailand ( 1997 Asian Crisis) even in Singapore the had a riot! I will be watching this metal closely over the next few days.
Haha staying at these levels or lower and there won,t be much of a PM sector within couple years let alone 20yrs,,,
What I hope happens and what I think will be forced to happens would be a bottom to form here with move higher early 2014 but just us likely
a spike much lower thanks to funny money kings paper shorting mutiables of yearly PM produced overnight
I,m sure we all remember during the GFC the governing bodies of the markets stopping all shorting of the banking
Sector ... These massive hedge/finance/retirement just love to gang up and munipulate sectors to there favour
Interesting thoughts JB. I made a call just after we bounced of the $1180 lows last time that we had seen the lows & I still stick by that, however as Moosie says pays to be cautious on these things. Debt ceiling is probably first cab off the rank in regards events that could effect gold. I see specs now have the biggest short position since June 2007, so there is an opportunity here for a massive short covering rally just need something to spark it. The Indian election I agree could be massive for gold next year.
Global financial uncertainty, sub-continent unrest, China / Sth Korea / Japan territorial disputes, Equity profit-taking, 2nd hand gold being bought at a $900/oz premium in India, physical demand now outstripping supply, etc, etc all provide increasing support for gold.
It's no wonder that without any defineable spark that the prices of gold and silver are gradually recovering (PoG up $15 overnight). The tinder is very dry and any spark will create a firestorm (at least initially to the downward trendline sitting at ~1300). Bottom feeders will be arriving on masse when the ASX opens later today. Today is not the day to sell PM digger stocks - it's the time to buy and hold.
BC
Edit: PoG now up $20 but with confirmed resistance at 1,243USD. It's established another higher low (new support) at 1,234USD. Each spike off new support (1220, 1228, 1234) has been more aggressve than the previous one, which is encouraging.
Nothing at all to do with Gold, Moosie, but yes interesting nonetheless - guilty by distant association, Paladin (PDN) is also getting dragged down by the negative sentiment now surrounding Australian uranium diggers. Both however have great medium-long term value IMO (China is building many reactors).
Discl: was holding ERA until I sold last week (thank-G) but still holding PDN.
Bobcat,
TRY .92.
What happened to $1.10?
Read your rant on HC daytr on hedging ... I have to agree pure madness to hedge round these levels .. Poor old PM producers are getting stiffed ,,,one side you have the major bear paper traders screwing the price in their favour of their positions --- on the other side you have the Major PM Bulls buying the real metal like never before ,,,major refiners are working
24/7 to fill orders with Asian , Russian , Germany pop. the biggest importers (India of course on the black market) ,,,,
It,s time the Major PM producers got together and formed a OPEC type body to work In their favour ...just go look at the 10 yr oil price major traders drove it to 140 then down to 40 in a blink of a eye not on fundamentals but paper trading least the Oil producers had OPEC to stand up and tell the traders to piss off quick smart by reducing production ...A gold cartel could do the same price gets under certain margin gold production could be reduced
Free market capitalism is long gone ,,if you don,t have some teeth
Your get walked all over just look at the masters of new phony capitalism
JP Morgan they get fined 10,000,000,000+ for their trading actions but as they
Made way more in profits ,,, its a profit .. No one goes to jail
Like I stated before your never see the ASIC/markets stop the shorting of PM producers like they did With the financial sector(the 80s PM crash come about with the stopping of long orders )or bail out if tens of thousands of jobs are on the line same for every sector really outside the auto/wall street type guys
What could give the international PM sector some teeth would be a OPEC type body,,,,, otherwise we could well see it hard to come by
The PM anywhere near spot prices ....as production hits the wall ..we will be told no one wants it that's why it hard to come by bollocks from the media ... Even see governments try stopping the sale of bullion like their doing in India ...yeah real free market capitalism
JB,
Despite the endless carping of the goldbugs that the financial world is ending, you should be more positive, otherwise there could be consequenses. Bad ones.
------------
A team of psychologists from Yale University discovered positive thinkers live 7.5 years longer than pessimists. Constant worrying puts a burden on the heart and dramatically increases the negative effects of stress.
I'm positive about the rise in the price of gold and silver over the past three days - now trading at 1243 and tracking upward in anticipation of the Fed meeting on the 18th (amongst other things).
Are you positive about that, Skol?
I'm also positive about the way that the recent and fearful sell off of PM stocks has created opportunities for people viewing this thread to buy in very low before the POG's turnaround becomes more obvious to the cynics, and upward momentum lifts stock prices.
I have no idea how much higher the PoG will go this week, but higher it will go. It's double bottom has been confirmed and what's bullish is that it was higher than June's 1180 bottom, producing an inverse head and shoulders. Its consolidation is underway.
BC
Discl: still buying as funds permit (now only 10% cashed up). OGC today in the 160's (1.50AUD) was tasty.
JB,
2 problems with your weird cartel theory. Gold isn't consumed and no one actually needs it the way you need oil.
As an aside: 23 December 2013 is the US Fed's 100th year anniversary in power. Significant?
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a Bank; give a man a Bank and he can rob the community; give a man a consortium of Bankers and he can rob the world."
By the way..a bit of topic ,but did you read about what Warren Buffet said about investing in Airlines?
You had your chance to buy TRY at 92c yesterday, Skol, to sell above $1 within a week (perhaps as early as today)..but because of your cynicism, you chose instead to ridicule those accuratley forecasting a bounce-back, and so now you are out of the money.
$1.10 by the weekend is very much still a possibility.
Meanwhile, I see you favourite barometer SPDR Gold Trust is no longer selling gold (835.71 is unchanged from last week) - why would that be do you think ?
BC
I know all about Warren Buffett and I know all about airlines, currently the most profitable investment on the planet with one or 2 exceptions.
Chart: gold vs airlines. lol
Discretionary spending, but for how long? We all have to remember that the world is on the brink of financial collapse, right?
You're incorrigable, Skol. My gold stocks are up between 5% and a whopping 14% today...and you think this spike is an aberration?
End of debate. Gold has bounced of its bottom in such a convincing way that IMO its good to go all the way to hit 1,300USD sometime next week.
Before today, an average of 12% since October (up 5% this year). After 4 hrs into today, now only ~4% since October. Yes, today they've spiked that much (and you don't see that as bullish?!). At this rate, I'll be back into good profit with my gold stocks by the weekend. Some already are, and if my selling strategy holds up well, I can recover most if not all of my past 6 week's losses by early next week.
In hindsight, I should've seen from the charts that the low of 1260 on 15 Oct was a lower low than the 1280 low early August, and that soon after its rise to 1360 the Bears would again regain control...for a month or two anyhow.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-12-10/template_jimw.htm
Gold is now consolidating...which was to be expected -- it's done so before after a meteoric rise and several months of retrenchment. Check out its history over the past 40 years.
Meanwhile, the bears are hiding...
From Bloomberg about contrarian bets in 2014:
Not every beaten-up sector is attractive to contrarians. The price of gold has fallen 25 percent this year to $1,246 an ounce. Gold mining stocks are down 50 percent. Manager Rudolph Riad-Younes of RSQ International Equity Fund (RSQVX) isn't interested. He says the price of gold historically has traded between 10 percent to 15 percent above its cost of production, but today it is closer to 20 percent. Worse, Riad-Younes expects the cost of producing gold to decline in the next five years, further driving down prices.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...to-copper.html
Well as we can see from the start of the thread skol after three years of being wrong you finally got it in 2013 (even though you won last year on my massive call to see silver close higher than $50)....
2014 the final $100 bet you still walk the talk or think its best to run while you've finally got gold to finish lower than the start of the year ?
No chance TRY will hit $1.10 by the weekend unless there's a nuclear war. Has to go up 16% and the HUI, GDX, XAU and GDXJ all down 3 - 4%.
Did you notice the SPDR Gold Trust is down another 2 tonnes to 833? No one's buying gold, except maybe the 'very smart chinese'. lol
Yes one mass kick of the can down the road...
Interesting to see equities start to struggle now that tapering is closer to a reality. Massive stimulus which has been largely directed at the equity markets if withdrawn the reality starting to sink in. Opposite should be seen for gold as the massive short position will need to be closed. God I hope they taper & fast!
Looks like another day of accumulating those incredibly cheap goldies JB, US gold indices down 1-2%.
A few goldbugs will be spewing today after backing the truck up thinking 'the bottom's in', gold's got a long way down to go yet to catch up to the HUI.
If it did, gold woud be US$918.
SPDR Gold Trust down another 6 tonnes in the last 24 hours, now 827 tonnes.
Was 969 tonnes on 1/7, 142 tonnes, that's one sh*tload of gold looking for somewhere to go.
Dropping on average 30,000 oz/day.
Barring a panic, SPDR Gold Trust will be empty about May 2016 if it continues depletion at its current rate.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-...ing-2013-11-12
this ones for skol
I've seen that, you could probably include the properties where I live, up 26.3% in the last 12 months. One of my neighbours sold his house a few months ago for $2.6m. The new owner has completely gutted it and spent another million. Seems like a good guy, says it's his 'weekend' house.
Properties are consistently heading up where we are as well(housing shortage in Auckland)--but not in the 26% category--thats a pretty big leap.
Sometimes I think about cashing up on one of the rentals--but it always comes back to what would I do with the money?
Properties are consistently heading up where we are as well(housing shortage in Auckland)--but not in the 26% category--thats a pretty big leap.
Sometimes I think about cashing up on one of the rentals--but it always comes back to what would I do with the money?
It's reported that North Korea may be in some economic strife and is selling gold to China. More gold flooding the world market. The North Koreans may have up to 2,000 tonnes, but the real amount is secret.
-------
As Zhu Feng, professor of international relations at Peking University, told the New York Times, Jang was “the man China counted on to move the economy in North Korea. This [Jang's dismissal] is a very ominous signal.” Chinese media have also relayed reports from South Korea that the North Korean leadership has begun exporting gold reserves to China. According to the reports, this could be a sign that North Korea is facing its most serious economic crisis since the country’s founding. While speculative, the reports do indicate a concern within China that there may be a crisis on the horizon in North Korea.
---------
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nort...04100315F.html
Read my offer, Moosie. I would if Skol won it but the bet was conditional on him accepting my offer before the US nonfarm employment data was published last week, and he missed the deadline. But yes, TRY has not yet lifted as I expected it would. Directors have been buying quite a bit at these levels which is always a good sign - it won't stay here for long. I'm expecting a SSH to be announced soon.
Don't ignore the POG spike last week - yes, there are still some very big shorts out there but it was a momentum shift. I see it's crept up again over the past 12 hours - from a 1,220USD bottom back to 1,240USD. Bears would need to take it down through 1,210USD before I start to get nervous about my holdings...and in spite of media hype getting pretty thick on hedging, next plunge, etc, etc (which has to be a good sign for Gold!), I'm picking a gradual recovery through the FOMC meeting Wednesday and beyond. Gold and Silver IMO are definitely consolidating.
BC
Bobcat,
Actually I did accept your offer many hours earlier and while instructing you on how to post a chart or picture I put a picture of myself hard at work in 1971. I got up early in the morning and removed it because it wasn't really relevant to gold and rehashed the post.
I'm good for my word, Skol, but it seems you may not be:
Your post #6274 declined my offer.
Then 50mins after the US employment data was released on 7th Dec you posted #6280 accepting my offer, but not meeting the single condition attached to it - namely that you accepted or otherwise by midnight that evening. You were 2hrs 50mins too late. The reason I set that condition was to counter precisely what you attempted - to ride on the back of a very positive US economic announcement that would take more gloss off gold and drive TRY lower.
If now you'd like to counter with your own offer (again one beer could be the stake) then feel free to do so. e.g. Gold under $1000??? Let me know where you're confidence lies.
Meanwhile my own confidence leads me to believe that Gold will more likely be >$1350 by February.
BC
JIm Rogers ( not that I've got much time for him because his gold buy/sell recommendations change with the wind) said the other day that it's not normal for a commodity to rise for 12 years.
He said it is normal for a commodity to fall by 50%, so it's very likely gold could fall to around US$960.
Repent gentlemen, the end is nigh. Marc Faber says the US will collapse before the end of 2013. Hahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7kTHuNNN4
Gold Funds See Unprecedented 31% Slump as World Loses Faith
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...ing-faith.html
Gold seems to be getting tired to me & I don't mean that its going to go lower in fact perhaps we are about to see a correction. We have been trading around the same levels for about a month now & something has to give or the shorts will close out. Perhaps that means lower & the shorts remain & increase, however unless we see the $1180 lows broken soon I think they cover. The short position is pretty large from what has been reported out of COMEX so could mean quite a move if it comes off. I have always said tapering will be positive for gold, could be the catalyst.
Yep, the Fed could deliver a nice Christmas present for us Moosie. Proof in the Christmas puddin !
Yes bring on the TAPER get rid of the lot(been saying it for awhile now) ....see how long these Massive PM shorters can hold when the DOW plunges 1000points in a week ....they will be forced to close out the PM shorts to cover other margin position's ...the lead in PM prices will attract the sideline crowd waiting for the bottom to form before Buying..
Listening to some US bull on CNBC rates going up in US 1%+ LOL rates up Taper down >>>just love to see how that will payout with all the DEBT costs also going up ..
Trouble at Mill.
SPDR Gold Trust down 9 tonnes overnight.
Gold's toxic.
http://www.theaureport.com/pub/na/15...l+12%2D16%2D13
There are oil and potash cartels; the gold industry should come up with something similar.
TGR: Most cartels, like the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) are privately held businesses. This makes it easier to get consensus. How would that work with publicly held companies?
SB: Public companies are part of the American and Russian potash cartels. A gold cartel would work like the potash market. Mining companies should collectively refrain from selling into the market at spot prices but should instead find buyers themselves, as there are definitely investors worldwide—especially from Asia, as well as the Middle and Far East—that would pay high premiums on the spot price to get their hands on physical bullion.
What is there left to lose for the deeply depressed mining industry but to take revolutionary steps and to fight back smartly? I hate to see the miners just waiting and hoping for better times, getting increasingly beaten up, defenseless. Now is the time to get their act together before the banks force them to hedge and sell forward their business for peanuts, rendering them incapable of benefiting from rising prices in the future.
You think the hedge funds and ETF speculators are going to care about a cartel? Besides it's probably illegal, there's such things as Anti-Trust laws.
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United States antitrust law is a collection of federal and state government laws, which regulates the conduct and organization of business corporations, generally to promote fair competition for the benefit of consumers. The main statutes are the Sherman Act 1890, the Clayton Act 1914 and the Federal Trade Commission Act 1914. These Acts, first, restrict the formation of cartels and prohibit other collusive practices regarded as being in restraint of trade. Second, they restrict the mergers and acquisitions of organizations which could substantially lessen competition. Third, they prohibit the creation of a monopoly and the abuse of monopoly power.
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OPEC is a cartel which was moderately successful extorting the West in the 70 and 80's but the boot's on the other foot now. The USA is set to overtake Saudi Arabia as the world's 2nd biggest oil producer and several OPEC countries are in a state of chaos or marginalised by sanctions or dictatorial regimes.
OPEC is not subject to Anti-Trust laws because they are countries rather than companies, how many countries are going to start extorting other countries for gold? Lots of countries have more gold than they need and others like NZ also have massive gold resources that just need exploiting.
No one needs gold. Only goldbugs, or deranged (university qualified of course) central banksters that have collectively lost US$550 billion.
Watch how fast all that shale oil production drops off in the USA,but no problem,those dictatorial regimes are easily replaced by the good ole CIA--Even Saudi Arabia has been under their thumb for ages (someones gotta protect that black gold)
Maybe if society collapses and we go back to bartering no one will need Gold..or paper money.
Meanwhile--what if they dont taper this week ---wont that be anticlimactic--no one will see whether gold tanks --the share market tanks ---or maybe nothing will tank----Maybe they just dont have the BALLS for the next social economic experiment
I'm enjoying seeing these despotic regimes getting what's coming to them, with any sort of luck I'll be getting begging brochures in the mail pleading for donations for the poor starving arabs. They're gonna be out of luck, loads of oil to go around with new technology and the arabs will be selling their gold to make ends meet. lol
Where oil goes, gold goes, and with unsophisticated OPEC backwaters like Venezuela, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Libya and Nigeria pumping lots of oil to make ends meet, and lots of new technology, we can look forward to cheap oil and gold for many years to come if not forever.
Heard the latest buzzword? 'Peak cars', which means cheaper oil and therefore cheaper gold. Mexico is opening up it's oilfields to competiton, lots more oil there. Can't wait.
ETF's are dumping gold like hot bricks, it's not going higher, it's going much, much, lower.
Cheap oil from when Skol???? the 'new' technology is not that new anymore.
How do you define cheap? I'm not that old but can remember when $30 oil was the norm. Do you think we're going to get back there again?
Anyway, I'm getting off topic here so won't post anymore about it. Always happy to continue the debate on the peak oil thread though :-)
Yeah I'm sure the Arabs a fair shaking in their sandals selling their cheap Oil for $110bbl while the yanks crow about the high cost shale....
Short term the Yanks are shouting from the roof tops on all their massive Oil & Gas shales ...another decade or so and it all will be forgotten as the decline curve on shales is very steep ...for one if say Oil did go to $50-$60bbl how great will those shales be then
Articles like this one bring out the Contrarian in me.
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/conte...1870&sn=Detail
No end in sight atm.
HUI -.47%
GDX -.9%
XAU -.41%
GDXJ -2%
Skid, I don't think they will taper this week, I just wish they would! All things staying the same I still think March. The market however will always front run the event so now or March doesn't make a lot of difference as long as the market does have a firm view it is coming sooner rather than later. I have no firm view on gold at the moment. I think we could have one more attempt at $1180 lows & see gold break through 10% lower, but I could also see that we have seen the lows & we rebound from here. All that matters in my view is that I think over time & I mean over the next few months I think we will see gold start to track higher & again I favour March for a turn around. But that's just the view I have held for some time & I still stick by it until I see something to alter that view.
SPDR Gold Trust down another 2 tonnes overnight, there's no letup.
Yes 10 billion reduction so only 900 billion per year to keep the rates at zero till unemployment goes much lower
Gold moves higher
Hey JB are you saying gold would move higher on this news, or when unemployment drops