Unless you got a broker allocation, then it's zero.
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Well....not completely a waste of time.
Yes...I want to purchase more as well. The question is when...and at what price ?
And how....I generally use Direct Broking....but would a broker do a better job here ?
And of course I need my money back to be able to buy on market.
Much to ponder.
There will many millions of dollars to be refunded to investors who were allocated only a fraction of the shares they applied for.
They owe me about $34k - I wonder how long it will take to get that back?
Applied for $30,000 over three identities, got $3470 each (6717 shares in total).
According to the message on the Genesis Energy Shares helpline the refunds will be processed from tomorrow (17th)
let's hope so... :)
No announcement from the government or NZX yet.
Freaking disgrace really when you consider it is sensitive market infor in a way.
They seem to have applied a $5k or 3226 share limit. A waste of time.
How many shares did overseas institutions get to day trade while us longer term punters get screwed as normal?
The whole asset sales process, a flagship policy of the National Party has been horribly run and in anything but the national interest. What a joke the clowns won't be getting my vote.
yea think ill vote for winston peters
Well done everyone.
I can't even log into Computer share.Sent user name,then temp password only find a/c locked,try again later.!!
........yep ditto same waste of time, applied for 50000 got 3226!!.........hardly worth the effort. Only blame myself tho, shouldve got off the mark earlier and spoken directly with broker....lesson learnt!
Nice one, National. Crumbs for mums and dads, new Mazeratis all round at Goldman Sachs.
What a wastage of time! Received less than 6.5%.
well it makes for a very interesting day tomorrow
IMO, the Labour/Green coalition acted shamefully in this whole process as well. For maximum machievellian political impact, they waited for the last minute to announce their power policy thereby lowering the price achievable. They then claimed MRP was sold off too cheaply! Although they have been quiet on that front recently...
Overall, the whole sorry process has done nothing to encourage NZ Mums and Dads back into the share market and politics on all sides has shown us why Kiwis will continue to invest in rental real estate as overwhelmingly their main investment.
There's something not right here. At $1.55 the shares were always going to be sought after. It appears Mum and Dad (and me) were last in line.
A bit of false advertising on the govt's part. I'd be keen to know how the people that went through brokers got on.
Fair enough. Mum and Dad did have a function - a hedge against instituions not being interested. Congrats to those who have a goog relationsship with a good broker.
I've just checked via the NZX site what my broker firm allocation was scaled by and it was exactly 20%.
Wonder if this was universal?
Couldn't see there what I got from the Public Pool when checking earlier today!
You guys should think positively - think how many bonus shares the government has saved by denying the mums and dads investors.
God you people moan and cry a lot.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I thought I was the only one who spied value and now I can't get rich quick.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa this is the government's fault waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I'm so upset because I'm a mum and/or dad and now I can't stag as much as I wanted so I'll pretend I wanted to hold long term to stop shares being sold overseas.
Robbo24, some of us were completely opposed to the sale of the SOEs in the first place. I voted against it at the general election and the referendum. I feel aggrieved at the whole process.
The result is the govt is selling part of Genesis to 'balance the govt books' and look good in the eyes of the offshore credit agencies. But who owns most of the shares from the partial float? That's the sore point.
I guess people like you assume everybody else is only concerned about their private gain too.
New Zealanders love to borrow (now 120% of GDP or over $100 billion) from overseas to fund an unaffordable lifestyle and standard of living - overseas holidays, cars, TVs, smartphones and above all, holiday baches and second rental properties.
Something have to give or else an increase of 1% in interest rates will blow over $1 billion in extra interest payments a year.
What would you suggest NZ government do?
The entire program was based on the premise to allow 'mum and dad' to invest - this float doesn't really show it. No doubt a large number of Kiwisaver funds have purchases shares so indirectly we have ownership without control.
Looking back should they completed the public offer first then the balance the remaining shares to institution investors?
Genesis to list with third-largest share register
Genesis Energy will have the third-largest New Zealand share register on the NZX when it lists tomorrow, Finance Minister Bill English and State Owned Enterprises Minister Tony Ryall say.
More than 68,000 retail investors have been allocated shares in the energy company’s initial public offering – the final IPO in the Government’s share offer programme.
The sale of 49 per cent of Genesis has raised $733 million for the Future Investment Fund, bringing the total proceeds from the share offer programme to $4.7 billion. That money is being spent on other public assets and infrastructure, particularly schools and hospitals, without the need to borrow overseas.
Keen interest in the Genesis offer means scaling has been required across all investor groups including institutions. A progressive scaling policy has been applied to the general offer as part of the Government’s commitment to put New Zealanders at the front of the queue for shares.
“This will see larger applications scaled more significantly than smaller applications,” Mr English says.
“The scaling policy effectively places a cap of approximately $5,000 on all general offer applications.”
“Due to demand in the general offer, the broker firm offer was reduced by 20 per cent, with these shares re-allocated to the general offer.”
At the time of listing, Genesis will be 88 per cent New Zealand-owned.
“After loyalty bonus share allocations, the Crown will retain a 51 per cent shareholding, New Zealand retail investors will hold 26.7 per cent of the company, New Zealand institutions 10 per cent, offshore institutions 12 per cent, and participating iwi will hold 0.3 per cent.
Mr Ryall says the share offer programme has met all of the Government’s objectives.
“Firstly, it has raised billions of dollars that we can spend on assets New Zealanders want, without having to borrow overseas.
“Secondly, through each of the four share offers we have achieved more than 85 per cent New Zealand ownership.
“Thirdly, the share offers have deepened and strengthened our capital markets, with the Mighty River Power, Meridian and Genesis Energy IPOs together adding more than $8.85 billion in capitalisation to the NZX main board.
“Fourthly, 111,000 common shareholder numbers have been issued during the share offer programme, indicating that tens of thousands of New Zealanders have become shareholders for the first time.
“Finally, mixed ownership will be good for the companies themselves, giving them extra scrutiny and accountability, and additional sources of capital.”
Genesis will list on the NZX main board at 1pm tomorrow.
Mr Ryall says retail investors and institutions that did not receive all the shares they applied for will have the opportunity to buy additional shares once Genesis is listed.
Genesis will have the third-largest share register of all listed New Zealand companies, behind Mighty River Power and Contact Energy. Meridian has the fourth largest number of shareholders.
What you applied for What you will receive (rounded down to the nearest share) Up to $2,500 (up to 1,613 shares) The full amount you applied for
From $2,500.15 (1,613 shares) to $5,000.30 (3,226 shares) $2,500.15 (1,613 shares) plus 28.75% of what you asked for beyond $2,500.15
From $5,000.30 (3,226 shares) to $40,650.30 (26,226 shares) $3,217.80 (2,076 shares) plus 5% of what you asked for beyond $5,000.30
$40,650.30 (26,226 shares) and above $5,000.30 (3,226 shares)
Shall we have a sweepstake for the open price and close price tomorrow?
I'll start.
open - $1.73
close - $1.80
Winner receives glory, and.... something else.
Hmm, the announcement above doesn't seem to match the allocated numbers we've seen on ST. e.g. $10k should only get 2239 allocated, but ST posters have said they got 2414??
Confused....
I get this error on the nzx website when trying to complete the Balance Enquiry.
"Shareholder balance enquiry is currently unavailable" Anyone else getting this?
Open $1.83
Close $1.65
Whatever happened to Kiwis being at the front of the queue?? Why sell 12% offshore when there was overwhelming demand from NZ investors?
Say what you like about the Labour/Greens NZ Power policy but they came out with their policy before anyone had invested any money and have stuck with it. National have tried 4 different approaches during the asset sales program and consistently scaled NZ investors to sell to overseas interests that have generally just dumped them on market within a day or two.
Despite being paid insane amounts by NZ taxpayers to ensure the best outcome for NZ inc the brokers have clearly controlled the process for their own interests. A strong after-market will benefit them greatly via increased trading and thus commissions.
Omega - you must be right - can you show your workings for $10k? I should have said 2237, not 2239 btw. As below:
Allocated amount in $ = $3217.80 + ($10k -$5k)*0.05 = $3467.78
In shares = 2237 rounding down.
Open $1.85
Close $1.78
This scaling is ludicrous ($5,000 cap!!). I should have bought through my broker - I'm whinging because I am only getting a fraction of the shares I applied for.
Sorry - answer to Balance's #605
The answer might be the exact opposite. I.e., for the govt to start spending. However, this only works if you spend money wisely (on future revenue streams). During the great govt jobs summit the only real thing that came up was a cycle way.
You are right about the total debt. But I think also the reliance on dairy must be seen as making the NZ economy somewhat brittle. I don't really have the answers, but most of the exciting R&D in NZ seems to be done in spite of the govt rather than with the govt. There are a few exceptions like the Americas Cup but on the whole the NZ dollar is strong and the tax break for R&D was scrapped under the current govt.
The long term answer I guess is the NZ economy needs to grow. But since dairy has a resource limit we must diversify.
As a broker, when I send out an email to those on my email list with a reply date to participate in an IPO, the smart ones actually respond with amounts they want, before the date we need to submit our figures. Those that come in after tend to end up well down the list, or miss out altogether, and have to try via the public pool.
What a waste of time that turned out to be.
When the stock rises , the govt will cliam their privatisations a big success , forgetting to mention that most people ended up with many Mighty river power shares and hardfy any Genesis
Question now is , either try and build a bigger holding , or flick off the small parcel recieved.
I'm with you Goldstein. 100 %. We should never have sold these power stations. Never.
And yes, I've bought more or less as much as I could of all of them.
Previously debated on the first float. MRP.
Allotments are out on genesis web site it seems.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/genesis...ed-back-154942
Looks loike NZ retail investors got 55% of shares allotted.
Function of number of investors applying - 68,000 so average of $5,900 per investor (retail).
I wonder how long it will take to get the balance of our money put back in the account that it came from.
They are beginning the refund process tomorrow
Remember everyone who got scaled you can always "top up" when the listing price drops below 1.44 and not "miss out" on the value of the bonus shares.
Good luck to all holders. My feeling on this one is that it's going to spend some time below issue price, as scaled back holders dump their unwanted tiny parcels.
Time will tell . :)
Remember everyone who got scaled you can always "top up" when the listing price drops below 1.44 and not "miss out" on the value of the bonus shares.
Good luck to all holders. My feeling on this one is that it's going to spend some time below issue price, as scaled back holders dump their unwanted tiny parcels.
Time will tell . :)
Confirmed that if you had a Firm allocation, and applied in the retail offer, you got scaled 20% on Firm, and 100% on retail, (same IRD, CSN numbers)
this is despite them inviting us to apply in both pools.....amazing how this one has turned out.
correct, and both are recorded as 'successful', so its not a technical red card
just in from my broker
Quote:
De-duping of applicants that applied in both the Broker Firm Offer and General Offer
Please also be advised that the Crown has exercised its discretion noted in clause 6 of the Broker Procedures Manual and page 46 of the Investment Statement to treat Applicants that applied in both the Broker Firm Offer and General Offer differently.
In general, applicants in the Broker Firm Offer who applied for more than 4,033 shares ($6,251) have had their General Offer applications scaled to 0.
Through the public pool I got 26% of what I applied for.
Will be interesting to see what % my wife gets through our broker-she had been scaled about 55% on firm, which of course could then be down another 20%.
Repayments of money 22nd~23rd according to the website tonight......
Grrr feels like I've been kicked in the teeth ... I went out on a limb and applied for a pretty large chunk after reading that Mum and Dad investors will get everything they ask for ... they took the money from me straight away, and now the offer has been scaled back the money won't be back for another 2 weeks or so? The interest I could've earned, or the gains I could've gotten by investing that money somewhere else :( The allocations to mum and dad investors are tiny ... how is anyone supposed to make a decent gain, or a decent dividend on such a small amount?!!?
Where does it say on the website that we will be refunded on the 22-23rd?
T
Seems like there's a lot of unhappy would-be stags out there today. Given that there was a finite number of shares available, who appears to have been most satisfied/favoured?
Disc: I got a few but had to expect to be heavily scaled in a popular float.
:cool:
Pretty brutal scaling. Expected it though and applied for way more than i wanted :)
Looks like there will be a lot of retail investors looking for somewhere to put those refunds next week :t_up:
Just checked email - Scrappy is correct.
Confusing as before on the Genesis website I read tomorrow as the refunds beginning. Seems they have removed this
So how many retail people are going to buy today? When they wont get their refunds till next week
Got this in an email.
Refunds for scaled applications
If your application was scaled, the difference between what you applied for and what you received will be refunded to you, if the difference is more than $1.55. Refunds will be paid between 22 and 23 April 2014 in the manner in which you elected to receive any future dividend payments
Application Size ($) Application Size (Shares) Allocation ($) Allocation (Shares)
$999.75 645 $999.75 645
$2,001.05 1,291 $2,001.05 1,291
$3,000.80 1,936 $2,642.75 1,705
$4,000.55 2,581 $2,931.05 1,891
$5,000.30 3,226 $3,217.80 2,076
$10,000.60 6,452 $3,467.35 2,237
This is what was in the ''congratulations email''from genesis
Those expecting 2414 may be disappointed
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11239490
I wonder if they would have printed my name as Harvey?:
I think I have just outed my alias to a reporterQuote:
One investor, who had his application for $10,000 in shares through the public pool scaled back to $3,500, said: "My concern is that when it was originally proposed, the idea was to get as many mum and dad investors involved. I don't know whether many mum and dad investors would have gone through the brokers." A scaling-free $2,500 allocation was so small, it was "hardly worth holding", he said.
Buyers 5,000,000 @ 1.70,1.73,1.75,and 1.76 . Looks like won't be getting any at $1.56 then:(
open 10am?
A tempting stag at above $1.85 but the question is with it being underpriced on issue is whether or not it will ever get back to $1.55 or below,hmmm toss a few coins:cool:
It is freaking wrong that the Government sells 24.5% of the available share allocation to overseas institutions when scaling is so ridiculously high for retail investors. Now have a look at the depth charts, no doubt the big seller with 500,000 shares @ $1.80 is one of these overseas institutions selling ti back to us with a grin. So essentially, they have bought our state assets on the cheap, and are selling it back to us at a 16% premium. Absolutely disgusting.