Very true - Balance I almost feel pity for you - it must be hard being so horrible on this site (and weird too)
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Spare me your pitiful sympathies and keep it for the beneficiaries being bred by Comrade Cindy & her bunch of incompetents if Labour gets another term.
They are going to go deeper into that hole dug for them while those of us who know how the game is played will continue to do very well, thank you.
Mate get a life - if you really are doing so well at the moment why do you complain incessantly about the current bunch in power - the petty put downs and insults really are stepping up from those pale old males on right on queue.
You and your pms perhaps you and mike Hosking can remain in the Same echo chamber.
Sad angry bitter old men trying to be relevant in a world which will quickly forget them, something I’m not sure won’t happen to Comrade Cindy .....
That’s the best you can do, boomer?
Pathetic you lot really are - so woke pixie dusted you cannot even have a view of your own?
Regurgitating the same garbage & excuses one Labourite after another - like Hitler’s faithful followers used to do.
Popular does not = good for the country.
If we are all so pathetic Balance why waste your time brow beating us with your rants and personal abuse?
And you are stooping pretty low even for you to start comparing Labour supporters with Hitler. Seriously man what is your problem cos you certainly have one.
Welcome to my ignore list :t_up: oh and you are the only one on it :D
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12352646
Water only policy by Greens in sports club - that’s Labour partner in generating woke pixie dust.
Matter of time before they will start introducing policies like Helengrad’s policy on the type & size of shower heads you can use in the house.
Tim23 did not say “Employers topping up the wage subsidy are beneficiaries.”
He said “Employers who claimed the wage subsidy are beneficiaries too aren't they?”
You have misquoted him which says more about your state of mind. You refuse to be hoodwinked by facts preferring your own fantasy.
It is your story that is made of pixie dust. Your comments reflect your feelings but you project them onto others. You are the cynical one not Jacinda.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12352492
'Compassionate': Jacinda Ardern ranked world's most eloquent leader.
Professional development coaches compiled a list of the world's most eloquent leaders and Ardern topped the list after being praised for her empathy.
"Jacinda Ardern employs an empathetic leadership style. She challenges the common perception that emotional communication shows weakness, instead choosing to approach the public with softer touch," the Development Academy wrote.
"She has a measured and authoritative sincerity about her – she is kind and compassionate, without shying away from tough issues."
Three of the leaders named in the top five are women, with German Chancellor Angela Merkel named as the second most eloquent leader, ahead of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in third place and Canada's Justin Trudeau, who was ranked fourth.
Scotland's Prime Minister Nicola Sturgeon was ranked fifth, with praise for her response to the Covid-19 pandemic as well as her humour.
"Jacinda Ardern for example, is a sincere and compassionate speaker, while Nicola Sturgeon is very engaging while demonstrating empathy."
Although there are only around 10% of women in leadership roles worldwide, female leaders make up 50% of the top communicators."
Have a look who completed that survey? This "Development Academy? wtf, has only been around for about a year or so. What are they? Who are they?
Jacinda eloquent? With her possidivvidy....
The real question should be, why are the Herald even publishing this BS? Big loss of credibility for the Herald.
Less than 12 months - good catch, blackcap on the insidious forces at work out there - the woke pixie dusted crowd pushing the style over substance narrative out there right along as per usual.
The giveaway of the hidden agenda is Modi who has been encouraging Hindu nationalism & divisiveness to the detriment of minorities in India.
Stand aside, moka and let tim23 explain his comment 'Employers who claimed the wage subsidy are beneficiaries too aren't they?'
I am sure he is capable of explaining his comment without you twisting and turning ever each way and tying him up in knots. You are not doing him any favors.
He doesn't need anyone to do him any favours. His comment is correct. Any payment made to anyone by MSD is a social welfare payment ie: a benefit of some kind.
Moka has tried to help you find a different perspective to the tunnel visioned view you are obsessed with. Moka has way more patience than I do. If you could actually discuss rationally, without total reliance on repetitive catch phrases or name calling out downs, we might all actually be able to have an adult debate. Everyone has given you the opportunity to do that, but all we ever get is more of the same Trump Twitter like ranting. Ad infinitum. Surely you can find an alternative place/forum to hang out with like minded people that would better serve your political agenda, and need for validation, than this one?
See this is what you do. Never actually respond in a mature way. You simply deflect. There is no substance to your posts or to your replies to others. Baiting people seems to be your "go to" when you have nothing of any significance to say. Which is why you always end up back on ignore.
Balance said:
I think that statement clearly implies a comparison of Jacinda to Hitler. Which was ridiculous, so you got that bit right.Quote:
Regurgitating the same garbage & excuses one Labourite after another - like Hitler’s faithful followers used to do.
Perspective doesn't come into it. It's a clear unambiguous statement. An average level of comprehension is all that is required to understand it. I'm not sure how it could be interpreted differently.
N.B. Just in case you are talking about a different post, here is the unambiguous comment I am talking about.
"Regurgitating the same garbage & excuses one Labourite after another - like Hitler’s faithful followers used to do."
Bringing Hitler into the equation in the first place shows a serious lack of judgement IMO. I find any comparison to Hitler and/or Hitlers followers extremely distasteful. This thread has certainly become very toxic and a platform for what is quite frankly bullying behaviour from some posters. I dont need to read this crap and will no longer be following this thread.
Awesome, you are exercising your right not to follow this thread. Simple isn't it. Nothing wrong with bringing Hitler into the equation though. If you can't bring Hitler in, you cant bring Stalin in, neither Mao, or Che, or Obama. Does not really make sense to me.
I agree. There would be far more post-mortem responses to your posts than to any other poster given your subject material.
As for your esoteric knowledge of Hoskings big toe and my financial position -that is weird.
I only bet on horses, an honest animal.
westerly
Well so much for me not following this thread :rolleyes:
Just thought I should clarify what I meant about bringing Hitler into the equation.
I have no issue with discussions about Hitler, or Stalin or whatever regime, quite the contrary I think it is extremely important we do discuss these things. Lest We Forget. I have spent quite some time studying the Nazi regime and I have also spent time at the Auschwitz Birkenau concentration camps. An experience I will never forget not should I. My issue with Balances post is he COMPARED Labour supporters to Hitler followers. That comparison is distasteful IMO.
And now I really am out of here. :D
Shocking reporting from the NZ Herald that cannot even copy correctly from the original article. Scotland does not have a Prime Minister as it is not a sovereign state. Scotland’s First Minister is equivalent to an Australian State Premier. So I question the validity of this list of “world” leaders that mixes a local leader with national leaders. This is a British interests centric list with Germany playing a particularly pivotal role for the UK at the moment as it completes its retreat from the EU.
I agree with RupertBear that the comparison with Hitler is distasteful. It is also lazy, and not relevant.
Mike Godwin, for his part, has asserted that Hitler comparisons tend to be lazy in a debate. “I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.” That said, Godwin stipulates that he doesn’t think Hitler comparisons should always be off the table, just that their relevance should be considered carefully. He wrote, “If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/
Some words of wisdom about having conversations with people you disagree with. Bring on the intellectual debate.
https://www.maxim.org.nz/justice-open-debate/
We need to be brave enough to agree with the ideas of people we regularly disagree with on other issues. We could even learn to have conversations about the issues we disagree on. The conversation will likely end with both people holding their original position and that’s okay. What’s important is that everyone leaves with a deeper understanding of the person they disagree with and why they disagreed in the first place.
While that’s easier said than done, it’s incredibly important for the functioning of society. In fact, without healthy disagreements, strong societal divisions are much more likely to arise. The Coddling of the American Mind, by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, confronts this very issue. They suggest that having conversations with people you disagree with are essential for building resilience and learning to adapt and grow. Of course, this doesn’t mean that anything goes. Bullying is never okay. But there’s a difference between bullying and thorough intellectual debate.
Comrade Cindy’s hypocrisy on full display :
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...cebook-account
“But she won’t be deleting her account because it wouldn’t be expedient, especially in an election year.“
As cynical as you can get from a ‘leader’.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ical-poll?rm=a
A good chart in this article that shows how the four political parties have fared in Newshub/Reid Research polls since 2008. It clearly shows how Labour’s popularity increased three years ago when Jacinda became leader of the Labour Party.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122310902/election-2020-how-do-you-run-against-elimination
Since the late 1990s political purists in New Zealand have bemoaned the fact that the two major political parties are too similar. Both have bought into the “neo-liberalism” of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson and have just been making adjustments in one direction or another, so the rather boring arguments went.
Now, for the first time in almost three decades, there will be a stark ideological choice at this election around the role of the state. Labour, on the one hand, is battling to retain its basically technocratic and fiscally prudent formula of the Clark years. However, it appears ready and willing to seriously crank up the overall level of government spending and activity.
Fiscal prudence and high levels of spending can co-exist, but they require high taxes that tend to drag on economic growth. Labour definitely has faith that, in a post-Covid era, the state can be put back into the centre of economic co-ordination. Not a command economy, mind you, but one where Labour thinks that ‘’market failures’’ can be comfortably corrected.
National, on the other hand, is developing a full-throated centre-right agenda of lower taxes, deregulation, and a plan to let the animal spirits of economic growth unleash to kick-start the economy. That will be backed up by massive infrastructure spending on road, bus lanes and rail, mostly in the north from Hamilton to Auckland and its surrounds, and various sorts of Covid business support.
There is a real choice. And, as with the first Labour Government under Michael Joseph Savage elected during the Depression, on current polling there will likely be an opportunity for this Labour Government to institute its vision. Make no mistake, Labour is on track to win a clear majority.
I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.
As a swinging voter, I look for/need both. Policy I believe in, that aligns with my personal values, and a party leader I like and trust (as much as one can ever trust any politician). National has not been able to provide me with any of that, for at least the last 10 years. Labour has not been perfect (who is?) but in a two party system, they have been the better option, for me.
I am always open to change, but at this point in time I see nothing in National’s policy or leadership that would earn my vote.
There but for the vigilance of NZers, the whistle blowers, Woodhouse and the grace of whichever religion you may or not follow, NZ would have gone the same way as Victoria due to the first 2 months of disgracefully incompetent & uncontrolled quarantine shambles & mess in NZ.
https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...54350f4388397a
Excerpt : "Victoria’s descent into a new wave of infections started amid a scandal over quarantine and security breaches in a series of Melbourne hotels.
Last month, Melbourne’s quarantine hotels were identified as a key source behind the virus’s terrifying escalation throughout the state."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rest-home...abd9f-97843407
Rest homes proactively taking steps to protect their residents rebuked by Ministry of Health.
This is NZ today under Comrade Cindy’s bunch of incompetents - Nanny state knows best so just you listen and obey the incompetents.
We know the rest homes were right and Comrade Cindy & her incompetents with the MOH could not even run a quarantine system properly without endangering all NZers through their gross incompetence.
Agree and think it is quite sad that we are not seeing any real policy debates so far and Labour seems hellbent on avoiding it, which makes sense for them politically. Not so much for NZ. Have to say though that Minister Sepuloni and National's Louise Upston debating social welfare policy on weekend TV was refreshing and showed clear differences. But as you say, I don't think people are tuned in at the moment.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12353102
A government without any major policies to announce for this election - because those without myopic glasses know that Comrade Cindy cannot point out any major policy successes from the huge promises made last election to hoodwink voters.
Well, NZers are going to find out the devastating way that their future generations are going to pay big time for the current generation of society’s losers being led towards the cliff and towards doom.
Those of us in the know will do very well from the free spending underway - just make sure you maximise whatever you can make for your own future generations.
Deleted.......
I thought he left because of his judgement errors during lockdown and he 'had a go' at Ashley.
He resigned because the braying from media was becoming a distraction for all.
Maybe you have some inside knowledge or hope to make things up to suit your narrative (not for the 1st time).
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/02...alth-minister/
Read and learn.
Good boy! You can be taught! 🤓
Now read this :
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12345138
Did I even mention the sequence of events?
But I would have thought it was more like
Lockdown = you harp on that we should follow Aussie (they now have twice the death rate and similar economic impact)
Quarantine mess = disaster in Victoria
Lockdown mistakes = we learn from our failures quickly (but can't find the elusive homeless man = wasted time and effort looking)
Media noise = David Clark resigns.
If you have evidence that Clark was fired (and opinion pieces never were evidence) please share.
Please take care of your mental health. Maybe lay off the posting for a while.
Same regurgitated garbage from the bull dust PR bull horn of Comrade Cindy.
Only a truth denier & brainwashed donkey would believe David Clark resigned. 🤣
And yes, but for their quarantine debacle (well documented) Australia was doing much better than NZ. You obviously have not heard of WA, NT, SA & Queensland as well?
But for Woodhouse blowing the quarantine mess and disaster here, NZ would be where Victoria is now. Again, well documented fortunately.
So quickly the Labourites want to rewrite history. Imagine if they are not fact checked!
Breaking News : Kiwibuild achieved milestone promised by Comrade Cindy. 400 homes built - far in excess of the 160 promised by Phil Twyford. 🤣
dobby41 I don’t think that you feed the troll. Your posts have a moderating influence. Ignoring the troll is not always a good strategy.
It is a lie that trolling is harmless.
The core intent of trolling is not just to provoke, but to run away from the responsibility of the comment itself.
Defenders of trolling insist it’s all just a joke, but if trolling is inherently designed to get a rise out of someone, then that’s what it really is. Whether you believe what you are saying or not is often immaterial because the impact is the same — and you are responsible for it, regardless of how funny you think it is.
Ignoring harassment does not stop it. The harasser keeps pushing and pushing to get the reaction they want with even more tenacity and intensity. It’s the same pattern with abusers and stalkers, both online and off, they escalate to more dangerous and threatening behaviour when they feel like they are being ignored. In many cases, ignoring a troll can carry just as dear a price as provocation.
Ignoring trolls functions as a kind of tacit permission, and it also ignores the inherent threat of the troll’s true intent.
What the troll, the stalker, and the abuser really want out of the situation is to feel powerful and in control. And they will not stop until they feel it.
“Don’t feed the trolls” also ignores an obvious method for addressing online abuse: skilled moderation and the willingness to kick people off platforms for violating rules about abuse.
People troll because deep down they know it’s serious, and that’s exactly why it makes them feel powerful.
Ultimately, if we care about abuse, we have to care more about the people they hurt.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ng-party-lines
Polarisation of opinions.
The article shows that just like here on Sharetrader whether you think the government has done a good job with Covid-19 depends more on which political party you support than on objectively assessing the response.
Survey shows powerful polarisation along party lines.
The survey showed political leanings were influencing attitudes about doctors’ handling of Covid-19.
Asked how good a job medical professions have done in controlling the spread of the disease, responses showed there was a difference depending on party preference.
Amongst Labour supporters, 96 per cent agreed medical professionals have done a good job. But for National supporters, the figure was 69 per cent.
The difference was even starker when asked if the Government’s overall response was successful.
Almost 98 per cent of Labour supporters said the response was successful, but for National supporters it was only 40 per cent.
Which is why Balance has not responded to my “ridiculous” post.
There is no power to be gained by having a respectful, mature discussion and responding to my questions. He gets more power from winding people up, creating drama, and frustrating people to the point where they choose to leave ST for their own well-being, than he ever will by fronting up and telling me what he actually wants from government.
My post wasn’t ridiculous. It proved my point.
At the risk of being labelled a troll for not towing the Party Line....have a read of the following. You might see why the likes of Balance and myself are so suspicious of what agenda Ardern maybe sitting on or be railroaded into. Her recent declaration saying don't expect too much in the way of Policy, says two things.
Either they are bereft of ideas....or they will pull a David Lange and come in with a hidden agenda and foist it on the population post election.
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/08/0...ing-something/
Yes, I appreciate it is by Martyn Bradbury who is left of left, but get ready for "Woke Central" if Cindy is re-elected.
It’s pleasing to hear people are thinking about the substantive issues, and not just the fluff that gets jammed down our throat 24x7.
The NZ political scene has, at least in my view, been rendered very centrist over the last few decades, and rather boring compared to other democracies. That latter point may be a good thing!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122344543/sketch-by-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-to-raise-money-for-charity-up-for-auction
WOW up to $14,000 already! Thats awesome :)
It's now official from the Auditor General that the PGF is nothing but a political slush fund. In most countries this would be called corruption:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...a-fund-to-task
Yep. It should be renamed as the Shameless PBF - Pork Barrel Fund
https://cup.columbia.edu/book/pork-b.../9780231193597
It has been suggested by many that Labour is installing fear of covid to get them across the line.
It seems that Dr Skegg agrees that we should be less complacent.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...e-experts-warn
Quote:
A large Covid-19 outbreak would overwhelm contact tracing systems and force the country into lockdown, experts warn.
Epidemiologist Sir David Skegg says it is “almost inevitable” Covid-19 will reappear in the community, while a failure to act quickly could see New Zealand in the same situation as the Australian state of Victoria.
What I was saying was Labour pointing out that there is still a pandemic out there isn't trying to campaign on fear - it is a reality.
And, yes, there are more issues out there but the main one, for the moment, is our economic recovery.
Unemployment down to 4.0%?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122...n-june-quarter
This bit may be closer to the mark (and the subsidies haven't all come off yet)
Quote:
Stats NZ estimated unemployment had risen to 6.2 per cent during the final week of June, but it said that weekly figure was based on a small interview sample of just 500 people.
The drop in official unemployment for the quarter also resulted from a larger decline in the number of New Zealanders looking for work.
Unemployment rate is only part of the statistics, held down by wage subsidies and some other statistics. Here are some seriously worrying numbers from the Stats NZ figures:
Hours worked were down by over 10% – another record.
The number of people classified as "not in the labour force" rose 37,000
And the number of employed people fell 11,000.
The employment rate fell to 66.9% from 67.5%.
The labour force participation rate fell to 69.7% from a revised 70.5%.
John Key has just told the conference in Auckland that about a quarter of ANZ's customers have had 20% or more reduction in their incomes and 10% have had their income reduced to zero. Scary numbers.
The Auditor General did not say it was a slush fund.
The article said “This has led political opponents of the fund to label it a “slush fund” designed to buy NZ First votes in the regions.”
It is not working as a slush fund to buy NZ First votes judging by the polls, so the NZ public are not as gullible as some make out. Lots of good small projects in the provinces have been supported by the PGF rather than the usual spending focused on the large cities and smaller centres miss out.
Very good speech from Clare Curran, not easy being an MP. Iceman please note that she thanked Trevor Mallard and said he could do better with practicing kindness and consistency.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...litical-system
Outgoing Labour MP Clare Curran described the political system as “sick” in her final speech to Parliament, and directly criticised the media.
The former broadcasting minister said politicians deserved to be held to account but not treated as “prey” by reporters who acted as if they were unaccountable themselves.
“You are not unaccountable though you act like you are. You are neither judge nor jury. To be credible you must turn the mirror on yourself.”
She said that at one point during her fall from power in 2018 she felt suicidal, but instead sought mental health support.
Curran’s speech acknowledged that she had made some mistakes over her 12 years in Parliament, which had seen her “demoted and promoted too many times to count.”
”Mine has not been an easy ride...I made mistakes, I paid a price, I was targeted.”
Curran said the wider political system was “sick” and suggested the news media had a large role to play in this.
Our political system is sick, and we all know it,” Curran said.
”Politicians and the news media focus on conflict. The objective is to catch people out and take them down.”
Yes the ghastly way she was targeted & treated by the opposition & in particular Melissa Lee was despicable.
As JLR said, they set out to destroy her personally (not her policies or arguments ) & when everyone could see she was down & in an extremely fragile state & vulnerable, instead of easing up Melissa Lee kept right on putting the boot in.
It was awful to watch & I think a man would not have been treated with the same level of nastiness, certainly Todd Muller wasn't thank goodness.
I could never have any respect for Melissa Lee after that.
There was also the National MP who had the affair with JLR, who was treated appallingly by the media.
I think Parliament and all political parties, the media and the public, should really take a good hard look at ourselves. There has been a common thread in many of the valedictory speeches about a bullying and unforgiving culture. It has clearly taken a terrible toll personally on many of those MPs and their families.
Clearly the system needs a change and the media in my view has a lot to answer for.
JLR? Hypocrisy & deceit on a grand scale for this predator to express any kind of concern for anyone. And a proven pathological liar & manipulator.
And get your facts right - who is Sandra Lee?
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/questions-left-unanswered-curran-no-show
Question - why was Clare Curran sacked from cabinet?
Labour’s plan is to win the election at all costs by politicising the border and keeping New Zealanders in a state of fear.
It’s putting politics above people by locking the border and wrecking the economy and ramping up Covid-19 propaganda to keep New Zealanders in a state of fear until September 19.
Meanwhile, two former Prime Ministers have backed ACT’s plan to safely reconnect with the world.
John Key and Helen Clark have called on the Government to allow students and skilled workers into the country, expand managed isolation and quarantine facilities by setting clear rules for the private sector, and establish travel bubbles with Covid-free countries.
Clark acknowledged the reason why we’re not having an honest conversation about the border: it’s election year and politicians are paralysed.
Key and Clark are no longer trying to get elected, so they’re saying what only ACT has had the courage to say in the political arena: the current strategy may be comfortable, but it is not sustainable. We can’t continue to hose money at businesses while we slowly go broke.
The Government wants New Zealanders believe that there are only two options: dead or dead broke. But there are more options than locking down the border and slowly going broke, or open slather and people dying. We must find the intelligent space in between.
Now that we’ve worked out how to separate passengers coming from different countries at the airport, there’s no reason why we can’t establish travel bubbles with Covid-free countries.
If we can safely quarantine New Zealand citizens, why not students and skilled workers?
A smart, innovative government would set up a regulatory framework for the private provision of managed isolation.
The world has changed, but the Government has failed to change with it. We risk wrecking the economy unless the Government begins safely reconnecting with the world.