Remember he who laughs last laughs longest.
I tried to block winner69 ......not allowed to block yourself :):eek2:;):p
Mentality, I have you all on ignore.
Share price forming some nasty pattern called a downtrend :(. But remember that all good downtrends come to an uptrend
However the dividend yield is already in an uptrend :).
I am fairly confident I predicted all this in a prior post (this one) but feel free to ignore me too.
https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...ack-nevitt.jpg
I think the importance of dividends is too often overlooked by people concentating on the share price of companies.
For example if you had invested US $40 into a single share of Coca Cola in 1919 during the IPO ,your investment would be worth US $394,350 today,and if you had reinvested dividends,your investment would be worth US $9.8 million.
Dividends sure can make a difference - enhance your wealth and mitigate your losses.
For example if you had bought 1,000 Turners shares two years ago they would have cost you $3,720. Today they are worth $2,360
If you had reinvested the dividends you’d have 1,113 shares now worth $2,626
So less worse off by reinvesting the dividends
Percy, do you reinvest your Turners divies buy buying more Turners shares
think my numbers are right ...maybe not as using yahoo data and a calculator on the phone
I confess I used to use them to buy more PAZ as well.In fact my PAZ shares have increased in value, to more than my TRA shareholding,ie 10 cps on millions of shares.
Not sure what I will do with the 18th July TRA divie.
However, I am considering buying a few more TRA, just to take my holding up to an even amount, before they go ex divie on 8th July.
Be 7,944 , should I go ahead.
ps.Had DRP with EBO for over 25 years.
You are absolutely right.
Say somebody purchased some TRA shares in May 2017 for $ 3.97, than he would have lost (given today's SP of $ $2.36) $1.61 per share - or 40.5% of his/ her capital. Given that we talk a 2 year timeframe, this would be a loss of 18.5% per year.
However - given that Turners paid during this time a juicy dividend (a total of 32 cents per share) any proud TRA shareholder would have lost only $1.29 per share (or 32.5 % over two years) which would have come down to a much less hurting loss of only 15% per year.
The dividends make a real difference indeed!
I don't dare to extrapolate this calculation to 2117 ... but I hope that there might be better ways to make money - or at least more fun ways to lose it ;);
PS: I know - the chosen 2 year time frame is not flattering for TRA, but it is hard to find time windows (ending today) which are. The only sort of ok-ish proposition would have been for somebody buying 3 months ago at this local dip around $2.20 and riding the dead cat bounce over the last 3 months, but I suppose the traders left again.
PPS: percy, I wish you well, but it sort of feels you are flogging with TRA a dead horse ... time to review, reflect and rebalance? Yes, it used to be a good story, but they changed the story, and I am not sure the numbers ever added up ....
Edit: just noticed winner did beat me to the response (not good to start a post, than do something else, return and not check whether somebody else responded already). Anyway - I will leave it, maybe it adds a bit of colour ;);
[QUOTE=BlackPeter;762685].
PPS: percy, I wish you well, but it sort of feels you are flogging with TRA a dead horse ... time to review, reflect and rebalance? Yes, it used to be a good story, but they changed the story, and I am not sure the numbers ever added up ....
Funny enough I received my wife's and my own portolio updates last night from Craigs.
Not including dividends, our combined portfolios are up 21% since 26th February this year.
And that increase was a considerable amount of money.
Two very big milestones were reached.[both I doubted we would ever achieve].
The bench mark I use is aaml.co.nz.Certainly have outperformed them over the years.
Therefore our portfolios remain "well positioned" to deliver good growth, and excellent dividends.
I am retaining TRA ,and infact am considering adding a few more before they go ex divie.
[QUOTE=percy;762691]And it would have been even more if TRA wasnt in your portfolio.
TRA remains in mine because stop loss hasn't been reached. I'm currently down 5.6%. But this loss in capital is partially made up from the dividends which reduces my net loss to around 2.5%
A loss at this level causes me no concern. Most of my portfolio sits in minor loss territory but it balanced out by some stand out performers. You cant win them all (or at least I cant) so I am happy enough to carry the risk for the mean time. Time in the market , rather than timing the market seems to work well enough for me.
This is second time around for me and they continue to disappoint. Stop loss has consequently been reset for 10%
[QUOTE=minimoke;762693]Kept TRA & MOA on watchlist after making very good money investing in 42 Below & Trilogy.
Not tempted to invest in TRA (or Moa) as I believe the Baker Boys Modus Operandi of brand building (42 Below) and scale building (Trilogy) before flicking to an acquirer has run its course:
Moa is surviving on capital raising year after year. While the brewery is building up volume and market presence, the craft beer market is getting ever more crowded with little scope that one of the big boys will acquire Moa.
Recent developments with TRA (unsuccessful sale of business overseas and director selling shares, albeit small but still very telling given the extremely bullish comments of undervaluation & share buyback) suggest that TRA has a lot of work ahead to become a sustainable business entity.
Agree with W69 that we had a lucky escape with Trilogy! Not going to try my luck again - need it for a couple of stragglers in my portfolio.
[QUOTE=Balance;762699]As you know The Business Bakery shared out their holdings in MOA and TRA.
MOA is Ross's project while TRA is Baker's.
I do not follow MOA so can not comment.
TRA I do follow, and my research tells me they will turn out an excellent investment.I have always backed myself .
Their divies help to make up our dividend income, which is helped by HGH,GNE,MEL,PGW,SPK,and now SKL. .
Someone seems to be buying loads today and selling loads today
Maybe Paul Byrnes is selling enough to buy a unit at OCA's "The Sands,"..?
I note Carsales.com in Australia are selling their 50.1% in Stratton Finance.
[QUOTE=Balance;762845]Been dug up a long time ago.ie you are flogging a dead horse.
As The Chairman of NZ's largest second hand car retailer he is a "motorhead" who had arranged to attend a Ferrari do overseas.
The board altered the date of the agm,ie held it a different week than normal.
As a shareholder I am really happy having a "petrol head" as chairman,and only wish I was invited to a Ferrari do.Would not miss it for all the tea in China.!
Perhaps you should avail yourself of the opportunity to make a worthwhile current contribution to this thread,by going out to Archers Road on the North Shore, and reporting on the progress being made of Turners new site.From early photos I have seen it looks impressive.
How convenient that the AGM dates were altered so Baker couldn't attend, was there not a huge directors fee increase to boot. After watching podcast of that meeting left me with the view of watching a gloomy funeral. My impressions that this company was un-investable still stands.
Drive past Turners development site in Archers Road,and become enthused.
Almost everything is investable at a price unless it is a complete basket case, like Snakk, Wynyard or Cannasouth.
With the likes of Milford getting the hell out of TRA, the sp has got to have a $1 in front of it before it is investable imo.
One thing for sure - never fall in love with a stock as that’s the surest way of losing objectivity and perspective. That’s when one is prone to make all kinds of excuses for the directors, management and the company, for inexcusable things.
A Ferrari do being more important than chairing an AGM when the sp was in freefall - Now that is not being very objective in my book!:t_down:
Can you put threads on ignore ? Or just contributors ?
The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.
Is thsi the site here?
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...oiowCnoECAsQBg
Oh Gosh! if I block you Percy I may only see about 30% of posts and mostly negative, horrible thought as we need balance ..............
No wonder Turners need to do something to fix their business
ROIC for F19 slumped below 6% which is way below their cost of capital - another year of decline.
Probably that’s why the market values Turners at about its Book Value
Turners done a 'strategic review'
Not many 'strategic reviews' seem to end well, esp transformational ones
Hope Turners are an exception
Did Paul Byrnes lose a bet to Todd Hunter? Trying to figure this one out..
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...177/301827.pdf
I said this when it opened. The have many battered ex lease cars, but make absolutely no attempt to tidy them up, stonechips scratches etc. Walk down the road and signature classs cars for a little bit more. And Turners imports are mainy old European cars.....asking for trouble with those
Yep, interesting, even Todd told us in last years roadshow that elder European cars are much more expensive to repair and more likely to break down (bad business for their insurance) than the Japs. You wonder why they sell so many of the Europeans. Hopefully (for shareholders) without Motorsure ... or at least with a high risk premium ...
Byrnes to Hunter - I’ve had a guts full of this and don’t like the way we’re going. I’m going to dump more shares on the market
Hunter - NO NO mate - that’ll make the share price collapse. Cant do that
Byrnes — I’m doing it anyway
Hunter - i’ll do the decent thing for the company and take them off your hands. Just transfer them to me.
I see the name Graham Leaming on that disclosure of Todd Turner
Is that the same Graham Leaming that’s the CFO of Skellerup?
Afternoon all...a few comments from me which might be helpful.
Paul Byrnes is selling down some of his shares to settle on a property and fund a new restaurant he is an investor in. I am happy to purchase more shares because I believe in the company and the strategy.
The shares have been purchased in the name of my family trust...trustees are my wife, myself and Graham Leaming (yes he is the CFO @ Skellerup)
I am definitely not travelling around the country in elite cars owned by Turners...and I don't have a wine collection worth storing. I do drive the odd Turners car from Palmerston North to Levin where we have an Oxford office...I certainly wouldn't describe these as "elite" vehicles...more "value for money" vehicles.
Comments on Wellington City operation - we sell a mixture of makes and models, and a mix of consignment and owned stock. The consignment stock will definitely have little or no reconditioning spend on the vehicle, but should be priced accordingly compared to the alternatives further down Cambridge Terrace. Consignment vendors typically want to spend as little as possible on their cars. We lease the site off Transit NZ and was only ever designed to be temporary in nature (IE less than 5 years) which is why we have used the container setup. We have received a lot of positive comments about how this looks but I understand aesthetically not everyone will think we have aced this. The value for us was in very visible profile of the site for branding, and to help customers understand we "retail" cars as well as auction cars...we are averaging 30 sale per month from this yard. The photos give you a sense for the location, and the stock on the yard which was taken in the last 7 days...definitely not all European cars.
Attachment 10625Attachment 10626Attachment 10627
Todd,
Thank you for your comments.
Unfortunately the attachment did not work for me.
ps
Investment news publication "The Headliner", has a positve article on Turners, according to a friend.He is dropping it off next week for me to read.
.
Looks like there are supposed to be three attachments - I can't open any of them I'm afraid.
I will try again...hopefully that works Austen.
Attachment 10630
Attachment 10629
Attachment 10628
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...288/301966.pdf
So Paul has sold 703,000 shares on market so far.
Go back a page and find out why.
Hope the others who have skin in the game haven’t decided that property (and restaurants) are a better bet...and decided that enough is enough and are moving on
First come, best dressed! Paul has taken some of his money out by selling some of the horrendously undervalued shares before others do?
Restaurant trade? The late Anthony Bourdain wrote this :
"TO WANT TO OWN a restaurant can be a strange and terrible affliction.
What causes such a destructive urge in so many otherwise sensible people?
Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash
down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry?
Why venture into an industry with enormous fixed expenses (rent, electricity, gas, water, linen, maintenance, insurance,
license fees, trash removal, etc.), with a notoriously transient and unstable workforce, and highly
perishable inventory of assets?
The chances of ever seeing a return on your investment are about one in five.
What insidious spongiform bacteria so riddles the brains of men and women that they stand there on the tracks, watching the lights of the oncoming locomotive, knowing full
well it will eventually run them over?
After all these years in the business, I still don't know."
Agreed the site is well placed with good visibility by the public. Being on "car alley" is also good for tyre kickers. Everything else is just aesthetics and as you say a matter of opinion. The people going to a fancy Porsche or Jaguar showroom down the road are not going to come this Turners yard anyway and the people who do come are more likely to avoid a fancy place because they know it just results in high prices.
Suppose selling one car a day (on average) at the Wellington site is a pretty good effort
Would have to think there are quite a few really quiet days with no sales being made.
Wasn’t being sarcastic, just seemed that one sale a day wasn’t that many
Don’t know what a good stockturn is for used car yards but taking 50 to 70 days on average to move a car along seems a long time. All I know is a dealer told me a year or so ago he got a bit worried if a car didn’t sell in a month.
It only takes 30 days to sell a house in Wellington
Hi SilverBack, done a bit of googling and the average number of sales a car sales consultant does seemed to be 10 a month.
On Turners website it shows 2 people working at the Wellington car yard, according to Tod the yard sells 30 cars a month. If they indeed only employ 2 people at this branch then the sales numbers are impressive.
Wellington Turners car yard branch
Derek Barnes - Operations Manager - 0274 438 689
John Burroughs - Sales Consultant - 027 403 4621
Surely the amount of cars sold has to be linked to the price, age and make of the vechicle.Can't imagine a luxury car yard selling 30 cars a month out of a stock of 70 units!
OK ....That site looks like it is performing well.
That’s good news
Thanks for doing the hard yards Forest. Probably need to cut Todd's comment in two to get close to the reality (he runs a cars sales company after all) but seems even so to be a reasonable level of activity.
A few decades ago, I knew a guy who was used car sales manager for a franchise in the Wellington region. It was a a significant franchise. He became very depressed one year when they only sold 4 cars in a month. His worst result ever. This was in a Government induced recession. I think this acts as a lower bound. I cannot tell you how many sales staff he had.
Interesting comments re Aussie house sales declines and new car sales and car finance declines in this article.
Of course it won't happen here and won't effect TNR....... or will it?
Full Annual Report out - that will keep snoopy busy this weekend to see how much normalised profit grew by
I await Snoopy’s view on Note 32
Baker only missed 1 Board meeting this year ..much better performance by him
Lease obligations $32m ..that seems a lot but then again they are in retail
milford sold a lot of shares recently obviously into the buy back
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336827