I read somewhere the chinese had problems with visas. The local union said gib fixers got paid more than that offered to Chinese workers so they objected to the issuing of visas. Presume that got resolved somehow.
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Minimum holdings
Might depend on what the price is when you buy so currently 50 shares:)
Price Minimum shares < $0.25 2,000 shares $0.251 - $0.50 1,000 shares $0.501 - $1.00 500 shares $1.001 - $2.00 200 shares $2.001 - $5.00 100 shares $5.001 - $10.00 50 shares $10.001 + 25 shares
I know I'm not the market but I used to have a couple of trade accounts with PLacemaker. Not any more. Mitre 10 has superior product range, much better customer experience and price is OK. I wouldnt be investing anything into Placemakers and the sooner we allow easier entry of product like Gib the better.
50 shares times $6 = $300 plus $30 brokerage $330...almost worth the price of admission to watch the fireworks at the next annual meeting and who knows you might even get net half your money back after the meeting. Could be the best corporate entertainment this year for about $150 lol
Please excuse my fascination with train wrecks...this arguably one of the very biggest in the last 20 years or so.
I absolutely love a good train wreck me. Only as long as I'm not part owner - as have owned some train wrecks in my time - not so much fun.
On a more serious side, I was very surprised at the time of the recent trading halt that it didn't slide more than it did on re-opening. I think a few posters here were thankful at the levels they could get out at. But usually such an issue isn't the end of it, and slow/expensive to turn such a large ship around, especially with existing heavy forward contractual obligations.
Don't the Germans have a word for this?Quote:
Please excuse my fascination with train wrecks...this arguably one of the very biggest in the last 20 years or so.
I'm just grateful that I was able to avoid the worst of it.
:mellow:
Based on the investor call sounded like the recent profit downgrade took into aco**** most of their current project being delayed and incurred late payment fees
still confident buying in the low $6, close your eyes and wait 2-3 years
Jeez - if I held FBU I wouldn't be able to sleep. Would always be wondering when the next lot of bad news would come up and more on my capital destroyed.
Bottom line is construction has for the past 7 years been in what can only be described as the Very Best of times. Earthquakes, infrastructure and population growth. You would have to be a fool not to make money under such conditions. Those times, while still good arent anywhere as rosy now. Head winds ahead.
It absolutely beggars belief doesn't it ! Took Mrs B out for an overdue lunch seeing as its such a nice day and we got a window seat at Fortuna buffet looking directly onto the greatest construction cost fiasco we'll probably ever see in our lifetimes. Fascinating to watch this going up. I think this will stretch into 2020 and come close to $1,000m against an original contract of ~ $440m. Mrs B asked how it could possibly go that badly wrong. I just shook my head and said, you tell me lol.
I just saw a major broker saying to avoid the rights. Quite a strong thing to say ...
I can think of something better to do than not take up the rights.
I still had a small holding in FBU so I simply sold the same amount of shares that I was offered in the rights issue, and took up the rights offer ... this way my average price per share was reduced :)
FBU has always been a huge disappointing waiting game for me ... yet again so many regrets investing in this lemon.
I took up all rights and will hold.It will take 2-3 years but will come right.
buy now close your eyes for 2 years and she'll be right
No mate the boom days are still here for now. FBU still has vast numbers of projects on their books to complete over the next few years, the vast majority of which are probably fixed priced contracts using the same "world class" quoting methodology they've used on the international convention center lol.
Plenty more skeletons in the closet for FBU. (Fast Becoming Undone)
Amazing that shareholders just gave them a mandate to continue their wrecking ball approach to shareholder capital without a comprehensive clean out of the board many of whom are directly accountable for not ensuring the previous CEO had proper checks and balances.
Post-mortem of Carillion's collapse in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/business...slammed-by-mps
All resemblance to FBU of course completely coincidental.
I took up the rights and according to the book, I am supposed to get them today and can trade them on Monday. So far I haven't seen any receipt for my money paid through ANZ or any sign of the shares. Maybe they will sneak them in tonight at closing?
Today, after opening, not a sign anywhere that I existed r had invested over $8000 in this issue. Nothing in my portfolio. Finally I phoned ANZ who were able to tell me that I "had" 1794 shares. not an email or an entry anywhere from anyone. Sold them immediately for to buy stuff that I understand.
My updated holdings were on Computershare yesterday when I looked. I had noticed via the bank that the money had been taken from my account. I hedged my bets a bit taking up about two thirds of the entitlements I could have. I see that the institutions took up 98% of their entitlements but retail investors just 58% of theirs. The shares were trading at 6.49 yesterday which is somewhat positive!
I see Fisher Funds has taken a stake in Fletchers and have written up their reasons. Basically - new management, several core businesses that dominate their markets, selling overseas businesses and focusing on NZ and Australia, restructuring.
They put some numbers out there - $1bill from selling Formica and Roof Tiles, other cost savings and initiatives adding $30-$50 mill to earnings.
The article is here -
https://fisherfunds.co.nz/newsroom
yeh they put a good story together , and were quite convincing.
BUT, I always go back to the thinking (same as CVT) why buy/hold a company that keeps mucking you round. The story will be much more believable after they've actually achieved some positive results. And the risk is of course that they still continue to screw things up - after all its easier for a trend to continue in the same direction than it is for it to change.
Massive execution risk as they try and turn the Titanic around...who's too say they don't hit another iceberg and why would anyone give the board the benefit of the doubt, the majority of which are the same board who have presided over such an incredible amount of shareholder wealth destruction in the past ?
Fisher funds have a very poor record lately and I don't think this decision will in any way be a catalyst to change that.
A bit more bad news Fletchers could do without https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...ing-subsidiary
Hmm another dud for Tony Carter. “After five years at the helm, Blues chairman Tony Carter will leave the club at the end of the 2018 season.”
http://nzh.tw/12064207
But wait there's more...investigation pending into the price of building products.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12062945
Another potential issue for FBU.....
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12066750
Doesn't stop pouring.
Fancy leaving the bathroom pods out in the rain so they went mouldy
Mind you architect not too clever forgetting to include a boiler room. Suppose can’t blame Fletcher’s for that bungle
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...-airport-hotel
Looks all honky dory going forward
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...718/281438.pdf
Only 15% market share in NZ ...hardly monopolistic
Better not tell Phil that
Forward looking statements from FBU should be read with the deep level of skepticism that the company deserves, in my opinion.
For what its worth I think the fact that the CEO is deeply disappointed about the job cuts indicates there's still a systemic cultural issue within the company.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12074926
Hope that Director Carter realises he has done a pathetic job and steps down
There is a lot of info in their presentation and if you are a shareholder it would be an investment filled with hope rather than confidence. For things to turn around, they have to do many things right. Expect their to be more hiccups.
If you ignore the share price, this is not the time to take a punt. We have seen similar presentations over the years from PPL, Rakon etc. The time to buy is when there is some evidence that they have started to do things right in all business units.
I prefer my profitable not so little dairy company (SML) with 2 sites that is almost half the value of fletchers and one day is likely to be worth more.
pretty sure you are being sarcy here w69. even if the correct phrase is hunky dory.
Attachment 9753
...but used in context of honky dory
Urban dictionary-
Originated by post WW II US Sailors on liberty in Yokosuka, Japan. The strip right outside the main gate to the US Naval Base was called (and still is) Honcho Dori (means book district street in Japanese). Times were wild and there was no better sailor port in the world at the time. This was bastardized to Honky Dory by the sailors and it came to mean if you came from Honky Dory then everything had to be good or 'honky dory'.
Hunky isn’t nicest of words either
Hunky is an ethnic slur used in the United States to refer to a laborer from Central Europe. It originated in the coal regions of Pennsylvania and West Virginia, where Poles and other immigrants from Central Europe (Hungarians (Magyar), Rusyns, Slovaks) came to perform hard manual labor on the mines.
But hunky might be more appropriate to FBU if you use the proper meaning -
A hunky company is sexy and attractive to value investors and usually big and strong:
But honky sounds better
Seems odd to me as a novice in the stock market that the share price has recovered so well. I think there are still outstanding compensations to be paid on contracts that have not been delivered on time? Doesn't appear to be a company out of the woods yet - or altogether dory.
wonder if fletchers rising tide might help metro glass and others pick up?
I think they're lucky to have Rob McDonald, (former CFO at AIR) on the board, not so sure about the other AIR guy there.
I do believe there's a lot of skeletons in the closet though. You can see evidence of this in the ~ $90m restructuring cost to save ~$30m in annual operating cost. Must be some really lucrative redundancy clauses in those employment agreements. New CEO getting all teary eyed about making a few people redundant, for goodness sake man grow a pair and really take the knife to the huge amount of corporate fat imbedded in the system.
Good they have a five year plan, and I'm expecting the road ahead to have some extremely large pot holes.
I'm with you Beagle. Likely more skeletons to come. In these cases there are usually more dead bodies buried than they originally think.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...r-ralph-norris
agree dont think much of the new board
So Norris joined the Board in 2014 when share price was around $9.20. He leaves with it around $6.83. Not bad destruction of shareholder wealth to his record. And the new people Barbara Chapman and Robert Mcdoanld have learnt off him. Doesnt inspire me I'm afraid - all a bit cosy and without expertise
They put their hand up for Govt support, that's not going under. He wasn't the architect of the ill fated Ansett acquisition nor did anyone foresee some fanatical extremists doing Sept 11.
I like his good common sense low key approach and he'll be an asset on the board. That said FBU have a long and potentially very stormy voyage ahead of them and just because you fit slight bigger and potentially more effective rudders on the Titanic that doesn't guarantee success does it !
It is a disappointment that there is not a NZ director with hands on commercial experience. Does not inspire me to buy any more.
Budget 2018 by the govt plans to build 6000 state houses in the next 4 years, and then we have Kiwibuild which will be into the 1000s (I think it will take the govt years to get anywhere close but they will eventually). Not bidding on any new construction projects and going all into housing on a large scale is going to be difficult to bring average costs down initially.
The pre-fabrication process has its pros and cons. The huge con being down the line and how mass producing these houses will look in years to come especially if the incentive is to build as quickly and as cheap as possible. A lot of the homes built in the early 2000s using cheap plaster and untreated timber were a result of this and I can tell you not all of them were cowboys operating.
As long as the new Chairman seamlessly pontificates high standards in catalysts for change Fletcher’s should be OK
And shareprice will head back to 12 bucks plus
There is
Might be better to better to pull it down and start again (with another builder)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...hotel-disaster
"fletchers should be OK"...are you taking the mickey....I have tenant who worked on the Justice building in chch...the stories he had to tell....One may "pontificate seamlessly" till the cows come home...in my opinion FB ...is and will be a monumental CF....for some time...cheers troy
This hotel construction in Christchurch airport looks like a perfect storm of incompetence, dishonesty and sheer bad luck... Now Fletcher has to pay 40k a day on top of everything else!
its too hard to tell though, something I've suggested to winner previously. I wouldn't have thought 'should be ok' is a sarcastic statement, certainly its not obvious in the written format unless there is other context. esp with the following $12 forecast. I think winner posts so much that flippancy is becoming the norm.
Hey thats been the norm for ever its just w69s style ala on the fence commenting on to all passersby.I visualised two winners some time ago both sitting on the pavement outside the shops one a bit further past the other with shades on. both have signs and upturned hats with a $5 note in . One sign says "I Am Blind" , one says "I can See Quite Clearly". Celebrate the diversity on here and one w69 has some great knowledge and opinions to share and one suggests you look deeper yourself and debate , smile,or trade the stock discussed.
BOT
FBU
NOT
FBU is a sideshow to me now.
Leave it alone mate.
Discl. (No position, either way)
We don’t seem to build things very well in NZ do we
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/102...ato-expressway
https://milfordasset.com/insights/bring-greater-diversity-to-the-boardroom
Bring greater diversity to the boardroom
The Aussies love to have a dig at our business practices and the CBD column was a perfect example of this. Under the sardonic heading “Nothing constructive about board”, it began: “Kiwi construction giant Fletcher Building lost a fortune amid the biggest construction boom in the country’s history. “If there was one lesson that Sir Ralph Norris’ board was meant to learn from the disaster it was that it needed more people with experience in its core business — building materials and construction.” But no. The column pointed out that two new directors, Barbara Chapman and Rob McDonald, had close connections with Norris. Chapman had been CEO of ASB, Norris’ former bank, and McDonald was appointed Air New Zealand’s CFO in 2004 when Norris was the airline’s chief executive.”
Reidy was ‘nabbed’ from Kiwirail so must be a coup for Fletcher’s
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/8...n-businesshtml
Previously COO at Downers, and also been at FBU before.
Must be more fun than being at Kiwirail......
Just wondering - how much is a stock with a current (and big) loss due to management ineptness, a (3 year) forward PE of 23 vs a trailing (10 yr) PE of 20, no growth what so ever and a history of incompetent management and board decisions really worth?
Would a PE of 10 sound fair? I probably would think twice about that but 23? Really?
Just wondering what I am missing for not investing into this company? I guess even if they manage to magically replace over night not just all the dead wood in management but as well the inept and overpaid board - how long would the company need to work to at least be worth their current price?
What is the investment proposition?
What you're missing is this thing "dogging" your portfolio returns lol. Anyone without it in their portfolio has been very happy in recent years and I fully expect that position to continue in the years ahead. New Captain rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic...a ship that's systemically flawed is how I see it. No growth PE of 8.5 might be okay if anyone had any confidence left that they knew how to avoid future icebergs lol Widespread derision towards this company, its directors and management at the last two annual Auckland ST get-togethers I organized. Safe bet there will be a very similar sentiment at next year's meeting.
My rating... AVOID like the plague.
very wise words roger
limited upside (except potential asset/division sell-offs) and plenty of downside and management risk - likely to underperform
can only assume the insto's consider this as one of those 'fancy blue-chips' as to the reason why it's assigned such a high PE
agree that it should really be on something around the 9 to 11 mark
BP .....three things -
1 - sum of the parts is probably a lot more than the current share price
2 - The Bible has F19 eps at over 50 cents so not that expensive at the moment
3 - Recommendations like AVOID are often quite emotive and biased
No growth cyclical building company that's probably structurally systemically flawed with questionable ability to manage its way out of a decade long fiasco and you reckon this is not that expensive ??
You really think all the skeletons are out of the closet ? This time its different and they really are coming right....LOL good comedy mate.
The best thing about this company is its corporate entertainment value...that corporate B.S. tool gets such a thorough workout its more fun reading their creative musings than attending the local circus lol
1) Possible. So, you are saying holders wait for a restructure and sell out / potential take over? If this is the strategy, than I am however wondering,whether the sum of the parts could potentially bought cheaper after the next bear market ... or would you expect a substantial restructure soon (like this year)?
2) I never look into just one year to determine EPS ... and lets put it that way - no analyst predicted the last blow out either, as well as the Christchurch Airport Fiasco (I think this is the most recent big loss maker I have heard of). Not even sure, whether they are already captured in the predictions;
Average EPS (over the last 8 years) was 31 cents. Will they really make 52 cents in 2019? Who knows, but than - they are losing 11 cents this year.
I really don't think it is possible to justify their SP based on earnings and growth alone ...
3) Sure - but than - all recommendations are subjective (i.e. capturing emotion).
Just wondering - are you holding?
BP ..yes at the moment as nice rise from a month or so ago. As long as all the big money needs to keep buying FBU just as much as they need to buy A2 or Ryman and others should be OK ....nice to have so much cash to play with eh
Day to day proposition though ....doubt if I’ll be in the lead up to the announcement in August
Fond memories of FBU ....was a 4 bagger once.
Perhaps it's not a big item in FBU's P and L but the company will be "sharing" in the cost of remedial work for the leaky Kapiti Expressway.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/new...-after-opening
While this is wandering off into the weeds let me tell you about the road outside the Munroe Mansion.
Our council decided to upgrade the base and reseal the road. It was split into two contracts.
One part was done by a chap with several employees and the other was done by a "playa" well known nationwide in the civil works and infrastructure sphere.
The "playa's" part has been and is still beset by seal lift and pot holes, nothing has needed to be done to the chaps section.
Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Here’s one fundie who didn’t take the AVOID recommendation
Done quite well after waiting and waiting and then pouncing
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/1...paying-offhtml
Headline a bit misleading ...they haven’t taken a 3% stake in FBU ...just 3% of the Fund invested in FBU
the "recently presented strategic plan is logical".
logical is hardly inspiring though.
its a matter of trust ultimately, and sure WWB and some of the others may be good core businesses, but imagine what others might have done with them, or even say how they might react when a strong competitor asserts itself.
and if giving your money back is all they can think of to do then it shows they're not even backing themselves.
Just discovered another FB pricing cockup today - fortunately for them they don't hold the contract at that price, however, there are a lot of other people out of pocket based on their estimation of the project costing.
I can see their kitset housing solution to all their woes being fraught with issues as they set up, iron out teething issues, then discover net immigration is now net migration.
Looks like Fletcherisation is becoming contageous. The apartment block Rymans started building in Johnsonville in January was to have been ready for occupation this November. After 6 months work the occupation date has been pushed out by 6 months to May next year.
Heard a pretty ugly rumour regarding the Greymouth hospital build yesterday. The hospitals already 6-18 months behind schedule depending on who you listen to. I sure hope the story proves unfounded.
It saddens me to say this....but why cant folk just admit the bleeding obvious....so called "tradies'...no longer exist....a couple of examples...a plumber mate...his son is now a plumber....he will not replace a washer...A tenant of mine worked at that cluster F..... justice precinct in chch..he is a sparky.....he was shocked by the ineptitude of almost all the sparkies....stuff was being nicked...tools....,etc...Lets not talk about the CHCH hotel debacle....
Further more ..who on earth would buy a new house now.....one would have to be nuts...
In fact...it gets even worse....I've been told the ...re precinct...in the original planning.....did not include electrical plans......at all......can someone in the industry confirm or deny....again let's not mention the Airport debacle...cheers
fascinating how seriously badly the building and construction sector is performing. Mainzeal, Hawkins, Orange H, Fletchers .... (and suppliers of building product (STU, MPG)
now Ebert goes under owing tens of millions
so many failures, so much negativity. "deep problems creating a perfect storm" was one quote I saw this morning, "razor thin margins" another. Might these collapses be the catalyst for more realistic (and risk-averse) pricing? And there is a lot of work out there (and in east Coast Australia). Could the last players standing be about to start enjoying a coming period with stronger tailwinds (even if they have a poor track record of managing and looking after capital)?
just wondering