Maybe you could use it as a signature.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
YESTERDAYS MAN.[:o)]macdunk
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Maybe you could use it as a signature.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
YESTERDAYS MAN.[:o)]macdunk
There was no hindsight at the time or now or perhaps you have misunderstood my post? They could not afford the combination of Eagle Boys, Real Estate and dividends. It seems only the 10 cent dividend was considered a certainty? Perhaps they had already decided that the dividend was the only factor supporting the share price? Is so, they should have considered the bigger picture of "why"?Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
"Hindsight" is obviously a valuable thing. Though property values seem to have increased since the decision to sell and lease back was taken they could not have certain at the time that this would happen. Indeed property values may have fallen. On the eve of launching a risky venture into Australia it was probably good risk management to pass the property risk over to someone else.
There aren't many CEO positions where the honeymoon period would extend beyond 12 months. That Jim Collier couldn't get the company firing is not a good enough reason for Vicky Salmon to also fail. The strategic decisions that have tripped them up like acquisitions and dividends are set at board level in any case, so Vicki Salmon had as much input in this regard as Jim Collier.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
You mention Vicky Salmon "falling on her sword". However Ms Salmon was not CEO at the time these decisions were taken, and the former CEO, Craig whatsisname, has left.
hiawatha
Now RBD find themselves in the position where to get the KFC stores firing, they have to spend $800,000 per unit - the "Radical transformation". The radical transformation doesn't include a rethink of capital management - where dividends must be paid for from the 88 KFC stores, an average of $110,000 after tax ($164,000 pretax) per store per annum. It is not clear to me (nor the market, quite obviously) that they are or will earn a return on this transformation. Higher profits are not enough if the store must be revamped again in 8 years. The profits must exceed the cost and life of investment and be sustainable too. An $800,000 investment doesn't fix fundamental issues like inadequate service and a core product that is 3 decades too late. Numerous competitors have taken advantage of this already as RBD's takeout market share continues on its moribund way.
...although KFC have undoubtedly been under-invested-in over the last few years thanks to low profits and high dividends, why does "radical transformation" cost $800,000? This is an aggregate $70m across the KFC stores. For each $100,000 saved off the cost of "radical transformation", shareholders would be saved $8.8m - close to a whole years dividend. It smacks of the old property developer solution to problems - build your way out of it. I wonder if they tested a less radical $500,000 or $300,000 fix, if results would be materially different?
The problem is to remain current, stores need regular reinvestment. When I was involved in such things, the accepted standard in the USA where this is a science, is typically around 7 years in most FMCG categories (Ranging from Fast Food to Supermarkets). So that $800k needs to be paid back very quickly before its "Yesterday once more".
WELL you better get down there first thing tomorrow and drop all your non shares on the NZX front door step.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
There was no hindsight at the time or now or perhaps you have misunderstood my post? They could not afford the combination of Eagle Boys, Real Estate and dividends. It seems only the 10 cent dividend was considered a certainty? Perhaps they had already decided that the dividend was the only factor supporting the share price? Is so, they should have considered the bigger picture of "why"?Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
"Hindsight" is obviously a valuable thing. Though property values seem to have increased since the decision to sell and lease back was taken they could not have certain at the time that this would happen. Indeed property values may have fallen. On the eve of launching a risky venture into Australia it was probably good risk management to pass the property risk over to someone else.
There aren't many CEO positions where the honeymoon period would extend beyond 12 months. That Jim Collier couldn't get the company firing is not a good enough reason for Vicky Salmon to also fail. The strategic decisions that have tripped them up like acquisitions and dividends are set at board level in any case, so Vicki Salmon had as much input in this regard as Jim Collier.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
You mention Vicky Salmon "falling on her sword". However Ms Salmon was not CEO at the time these decisions were taken, and the former CEO, Craig whatsisname, has left.
hiawatha
Now RBD find themselves in the position where to get the KFC stores firing, they have to spend $800,000 per unit - the "Radical transformation". The radical transformation doesn't include a rethink of capital management - where dividends must be paid for from the 88 KFC stores, an average of $110,000 after tax ($164,000 pretax) per store per annum. It is not clear to me (nor the market, quite obviously) that they are or will earn a return on this transformation. Higher profits are not enough if the store must be revamped again in 8 years. The profits must exceed the cost and life of investment and be sustainable too. An $800,000 investment doesn't fix fundamental issues like inadequate service and a core product that is 3 decades too late. Numerous competitors have taken advantage of this already as RBD's takeout market share continues on its moribund way.
The 'transformed' Kent Tce Wgtn one is really rocking though
There is a song about that one as well. DOWN THE OLD KENT ROAD.[:o)][:o)]:D:D Sorry bricks and HIAWATHA your sense of humour must be at an all time low by now. macdunkQuote:
quote:Originally posted by winner69
The 'transformed' Kent Tce Wgtn one is really rocking though
Isn't OLD KENT RD one of the cheapo sites in Monolopy ...... maybe an omen
Better to ask bricks he would be up on that sort of thing.:D:DmacdunkQuote:
quote:Originally posted by winner69
Isn't OLD KENT RD one of the cheapo sites in Monolopy ...... maybe an omen
Mind you commercial properties in that part of Wellington have gone up 50% plus in the last 2 years
JUST GREAT.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Deev8
Maybe you could use it as a signature.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
YESTERDAYS MAN.[:o)]macdrunk
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
[quote
In an ideal world, all profits would be paid as dividends, and additional capital needed, raised in the capital markets.
..... and if this happened in the case of RBD what returns would the providers of the additional capital get? Zilch .....as all the profits have gone to pay a divie to the existing shareholders
Profits paid dividends and nothing was left for the stores that generated those profits. Now RBD borrows to relicense the fried chicken rights. Borrows to refit the stores. Borrows to expand the coffee shop foot print.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
But if there is it is certainly not due to "low profits and high dividends". The profits earned have obviously been sufficient to cover the dividends.
Its about sustainability and a road map to their future...
Reported profits since 1997: $96.5m
Dividends Paid since 1997: $81m (84% of profits)
Net Retentions since 1997: $15.5m (16% of Profits)
"Growth" Capex (in excess of depreciation): $38.9m
Additional Acquisitions: $43m
Funded by: Selling real estate, reduced working capital and increased borrowings
How do they keep funding this? At what point are these investments, so far an extra $82m not counting the opportunity cost, going to contribute to increased profits? RBD's absolute profit is lower yet their asset base in ever higher. Profits are lower whichever metric you use - return on equity, return on assets, dollars, EBIT margins. Australia is not their only problem.
That must be in the financial rulebook chapter entitled: "Dilution, the road to riches".Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
And where in the financing rulebook does it say that new investment must be met out of profits? The opposite is true I would have thought. In an ideal world, all profits would be paid as dividends, and additional capital needed, raised in the capital markets. Shareholders who wanted their share of profits "ploughed back" could subscribe to a drip scheme.
There is a very simple set of rules that covers borrowing, profits, cash flow, timing and flexibility. It is called math. So far it's something like Math 10, RBD Nil. Buffet's weighing machine has spoken.
Really?Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
Everyone agrees that their entrance into the Australian pizza market was a bad move and that it has damaged the company. But to conclude from that that their financing methods are at fault is non sequitur.
hiawatha
So what reserves are they calling on to ensure the completion of the 50 store expansion of the coffee chain? The "radical transformation" of the chicken stores? The turnaround of the pizza business? Dividends have had as big a part to play in the "radical rundown" of this company as their inability to pick the competitive vacuum created by Eagle Boys, their inability to read the Victorian pizza market, their inability to lift the share price, their inability to sustain return on equity, their inability to sustain return on assets, their inability to do anything to sustain anything a rational investor might look for when risking their hard earned capital.
This is TEL all over again, proving the lie that modern capital "efficiency" models fail to address that anyone else could with common sense physics and hands on business nous. While RBD fanboys defend the indefensible, this company continues to gobble shareholder wealth in the same manner the RBD's competitors have gobbled their market share. Without honest criticism, how does this fix itself? The rationale for RBD has been defended on this forum for literally years while the company itself proves its detractors and other rationalists right with frightening monotony.
The new chairman at leasts presents a glimmer of hope but RBD has delivered many glimmers wit
So you agree with halebop then ..... that paragraph of yours is wxactly what halebop has been saying ..... and in RBDs case the should has never happenedQuote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
If additional capital is raised for investment there would, or should, be an increase in profits out of which extra dividends could be paid. Otherwise there is no point in raising capital and investing it.Quote:
quote:..... and if this happened in the case of RBD what returns would the providers of the additional capital get? Zilch .....as all the profits have gone to pay a divie to the existing shareholders
[quote]quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
No. I was linking the shortcomings of strategy (Board) with the shortcomings operations (Management). There were a litany of disasters recorded in my post(s), not all of which can be attributed to the CEO(s). Dividends are however a very controllable factor with a very predictable cost. They have been costing this company strategically and operationally for quite some time. I'd accept the argument that the saving grace of dividends is at least shareholders get to spend them instead of management. Not a great rationale to prompt investment though.Quote:
This is not at all what halebop has been saying. halebop seems to be blaming all of RBD's problems on the paying out of most of its profits as dividends. But what have dividends got to do with the misreading of Eagle Boys situation and the misreading of the Victoria pizza market?
hiawatha
One certainity is that YUM! and Starbucks Inc get their $20M odd every year ..... but YUM! might be a bit worried their bit is not increasing
I totally agree with all you doomsday preachers of KFC. And yes it is a dog run by a bunch of useless board of directors who should ultimately be responsible for RBDs failures in the past and present.
It is time for the board to do the right thing and let RBD go to the highest bidder.
No more looking at fundamentals, lets geton with the sale! FFS!
Even Pizza Huts name is out of date.... One Red Dog, Hell Pizza. What about some fresh ideas? Maybe like celebrity pizza's. Or maybe take the easy way and sell.
KIWI`s do not like pizza`s that much so with any/many competition makes a big chain with overheads that's large would be better out so they should SELL to small operators and move on with the parts that do PAY.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by manuka
Even Pizza Huts name is out of date.... One Red Dog, Hell Pizza. What about some fresh ideas? Maybe like celebrity pizza's. Or maybe take the easy way and sell.
I would dump my holding on the market if the directors decide to keep the operations and not sell. The board is a bunch of useless idiots. Time for them to go also.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
I don't think selling the lot is a good idea (unless they get a good price, of course). However, if they could somehow flick off Pizza Hut and keep the rest, they might be getting somewhere. Otherwise I think PH needs some serious thought.Quote:
quote:I totally agree with all you doomsday preachers of KFC. And yes it is a dog run by a bunch of useless board of directors who should ultimately be responsible for RBDs failures in the past and present.
It is time for the board to do the right thing and let RBD go to the highest bidder.
No more looking at fundamentals, lets geton with the sale! FFS!
hiawatha
O NO Bling not the whole 100 shares , Go KFC for dinner.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling
I would dump my holding on the market if the directors decide to keep the operations and not sell. The board is a bunch of useless idiots. Time for them to go also.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
I don't think selling the lot is a good idea (unless they get a good price, of course). However, if they could somehow flick off Pizza Hut and keep the rest, they might be getting somewhere. Otherwise I think PH needs some serious thought.Quote:
quote:I totally agree with all you doomsday preachers of KFC. And yes it is a dog run by a bunch of useless board of directors who should ultimately be responsible for RBDs failures in the past and present.
It is time for the board to do the right thing and let RBD go to the highest bidder.
No more looking at fundamentals, lets geton with the sale! FFS!
hiawatha
Hey BRICKs wake up boy, you been having a wet dream. You've been watching too many of those rap videos and fantasing about the huge portfolio you've got with the discount brokers. :D
You lot had better lay off my mate BRICKS.[:I]. He went on a buying spree today, and shoved the price up 7.8pc so far today. Good on you bricks money where the mouth is EH. Its not a dog after all its a dead cat bouncing.:D:D:Dmacdunk
Ha Haa keep it up macdrunk & Bling we all know your got 200 shares.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
JUST GREAT.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Deev8
Maybe you could use it as a signature.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
YESTERDAYS MAN.[:o)]macdrunk
2 days of peace and quite the knockers are on holidays or just hiding in the bushes like the communist use to do so they can counter attack with the left out rubbish at KFC.. [8D]
Sorry was out of action, looking at the graph since my last posting suggest that RBD price will continue to fall. Maybe my 75cents prediction might be a bit off but buy order at 85cents is my best bet.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
DO you have any to SELL will BUY them @ 75 if you have make sense LAD,Quote:
quote:Originally posted by lager
Bling Bling, 90cents is too high.
I would say 75cents best bet.
Bling all the negative talk has WON even 69 said they wont go to 90 cents and bugger me he was wrong the clown Scott has yet to play his record again and again, this is the bottom of pit take your life in your its a BUY one word of takeover and off it will go like a AIR 777 JET.. [8D]
Bling will buy more if it comes to 85 cents :). I am happy to buy and hold.
Detailed final results released today.
- Total sales for New Zealand operations up 1.7% to $293.6 million
- Store EBITDA down 18% to $37.0 million
- Group Net Profit after Tax (excluding non-trading items) down 47% to $6.5 million
- Final dividend 3.0c down from 5.5c a year ago
Restaurant Brands Report to Shareholders for the Year ended 28 February 2007
Shares down 1c to 91 following the announcement today.
Went to my local refurbished KFC today. No wonder RBD struggles staff quite openly handing out excess change to friends. Give them $10 get a meal and get $20 change what a joke. Where were the managers - sitting in the outdoor area chatting. I was in shock destined for failure.
Perhaps it was you that got it wrong ONTHEMONEY. RBD has a new policy to pay the rifraf to eat the stuff to raise their over the counter figures. I feel sure BRICKS must be behind this somewhere. [:o)][:o)][:I]MacdunkQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Onthemoney
Went to my local refurbished KFC today. No wonder RBD struggles staff quite openly handing out excess change to friends. Give them $10 get a meal and get $20 change what a joke. Where were the managers - sitting in the outdoor area chatting. I was in shock destined for failure.
SHAME on you Onthemoney you where witness to theft and you did nothing about it so why bother to tell US.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Onthemoney
Went to my local refurbished KFC today. No wonder RBD struggles staff quite openly handing out excess change to friends. Give them $10 get a meal and get $20 change what a joke. Where were the managers - sitting in the outdoor area chatting. I was in shock destined for failure.
I have given up telling other businesses downfalls in their businesses. I would only tell the owners direct in this case the shareholders some people who manage businesses don't want to know.
I used to work in retail over 20 years ago and pointed out shop lifters numerous times - no manager would do anything.
I have caught a shoplifter leaving a bookshop with a jacket full of magazines pulled him back into the shop and the employees didn't know what to do or want to do anything, the manager said just let him go.
Saw a woman walk right out of a Briscoes store with a vacuum not paid for - pointed this out to staff they said did she? They stood there and let her go. When the manager came down he said too late and didn't want to know either.
Again it seems to be that people don't care or give you any thanks so why point it out. I have given up unless I can talk directly to the owner of the business and not the axle grinders.
See Tower Funds Management selling, notified they were going under 5% just 4.8% of the company to go!
most times when my partner gets late nite munchies and order 2 thigh pieces but get charged only $2.
Is this correct?
The party is not over yet. Keep watching this space. ;)
OH no Bling your going to BUY another 100 shares can`t stand the PACE.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling
The party is not over yet. Keep watching this space. ;)
Thats 90 shares more than your portfolio... lol:DQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
OH no Bling your going to BUY another 100 shares can`t stand the PACE.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling
The party is not over yet. Keep watching this space. ;)
Solid start to the new RBD year with pretty good sales growth
Even Pizza Hut seems to be showing signs of improvement
With the fast food / takeways sector still recording double digit growth ..... and no matter what happens to the economy this will continue ..... RBD should see this growth continue
Snoopy / Bricks et all ...... time to load up ..... don't think the price (of RBD shares that is) will ever get any lower than today
And Bling Bling .... why not make it 200 shares this time around
VERY good news, come and join us 69.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by winner69
Solid start to the new RBD year with pretty good sales growth
Even Pizza Hut seems to be showing signs of improvement
With the fast food / takeways sector still recording double digit growth ..... and no matter what happens to the economy this will continue ..... RBD should see this growth continue
Snoopy / Bricks et all ...... time to load up ..... don't think the price (of RBD shares that is) will ever get any lower than today
And Bling Bling .... why not make it 200 shares this time around
What's more shareholders can enjoy their complementary toasted twister while they absorb the good news on sales growth.
PH improvement - not sure whether we are reading the same report....
HOW is the crime stoppers GOING.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Onthemoney
PH improvement - not sure whether we are reading the same report....
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by winner69
And Bling Bling .... why not make it 200 shares this time around
210 shares to be exact.. LOL
ITS great McDuck is GONE..??.. [8D]
You are not that thick that you think that i would be a shareholder are you BRICKS?.:D:D:DYOUR old mate MACDUNKQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
ITS great McDuck is GONE..??.. [8D]
BUGGER.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
You are not that thick that you think that i would be a shareholder are you BRICKS?.:D:D:DYOUR old mate MACDUNKQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
ITS great McDuck is GONE..??.. [8D]
The KFC top line result was good. However, the numbers don't yet allow a clear determination that increased sales will actually pay back those "new concept" fit outs (and then some for shareholders) over their limited economic life. Even if successful, I'm dubious that an operational turnaround really required $500,000 to $800,000 per store and wonder if they couldn't have come up with a more creative solution to reign in capex?
Pizza Hut is not showing any sign of turnaround despite semantics to the contrary. An 8% sales drop is a continued implosion, not a stabilization. Perhaps too late / problematic now but they could consider reinstating Pizza Haven at the discount end to help spoil Dominos expansion. With only 3 Pizza Chains of any scale (and Hell and Dominos are really only "half" pizza chains), RBD have made a real mess of their pizza strategy.
Starbucks managed a 2% same store rise. Less than the rate of inflation, less than the rate of wage inflation. The outcome over time can only be lower profitability unless they manage to lift sales growth by a couple of factors. They had previously mooted another 50 stores. Let's hope they lift the profitability of the existing ones before tipping any more capital in.
NOW give us your CONCLUSIONS.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
The KFC top line result was good. However, the numbers don't yet allow a clear determination that increased sales will actually pay back those "new concept" fit outs (and then some for shareholders) over their limited economic life. Even if successful, I'm dubious that an operational turnaround really required $500,000 to $800,000 per store and wonder if they couldn't have come up with a more creative solution to reign in capex?
Pizza Hut is not showing any sign of turnaround despite semantics to the contrary. An 8% sales drop is a continued implosion, not a stabilization. Perhaps too late / problematic now but they could consider reinstating Pizza Haven at the discount end to help spoil Dominos expansion. With only 3 Pizza Chains of any scale (and Hell and Dominos are really only "half" pizza chains), RBD have made a real mess of their pizza strategy.
Starbucks managed a 2% same store rise. Less than the rate of inflation, less than the rate of wage inflation. The outcome over time can only be lower profitability unless they manage to lift sales growth by a couple of factors. They had previously mooted another 50 stores. Let's hope they lift the profitability of the existing ones before tipping any more capital in.
The conclusion BRICKS my old mate is they are in dire need of a new secret recipe.[:o)]:D:Dmacdunk
Dominoes Pizza discount to kill off Pizza Hut cant go on forever. It must be hurting their franchisee's bottom line. It will take alot of capital to turn pizza hut around. Best to let it go at a discount.
WE have one YOU.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
The conclusion BRICKS my old mate is they are in dire need of a new secret recipe.[:o)]:D:Dmacdunk
Barks like a dog.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
NOW give us your CONCLUSIONS.. [8D]
SO we gather you don't like it and you don't own it so why should we WORRY.. to listen to YOU.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
Barks like a dog.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
NOW give us your CONCLUSIONS.. [8D]
You should stop spending so much effort on "not listening" :DQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
SO we gather you don't like it and you don't own it so why should we WORRY.. to listen to YOU.. [8D]
WE are listening but your saying NOTHING.. at all.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
You should stop spending so much effort on "not listening" :DQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
SO we gather you don't like it and you don't own it so why should we WORRY.. to listen to YOU.. [8D]
DittoQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
WE are listening but your saying NOTHING.. at all.. [8D]
Sounds like two dummies having an arguement.[:o)][:o)]:D:D
Only joking guys dont take it to heart. Macdunk
SORRY DILL.. [8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
DittoQuote:
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS
WE are listening but your saying NOTHING.. at all.. [8D]
Someone bought a nice WEE parcel today, it might be a few people are starting to see RBD as a better buy than Burgerfuel they appear to be getting mopped up at 88cents, they have to be a buy at that, even a takeover target.
If RBD sp comes down anymore, it would be a very tasty target for potential hostile T/O target. :)Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
Someone bought a nice WEE parcel today, it might be a few people are starting to see RBD as a better buy than Burgerfuel they appear to be getting mopped up at 88cents, they have to be a buy at that, even a takeover target.
Someone is mopping up is it you Bling, or it could be Bricks I think he likes this stock.
Halebop's fading memory is testment as to why 'Pizza Hut' selling Pizzas under a different brand would fail. The 'Pizza Haven' franchise for New Zealand that Halebop refers to was purchased by Dominos. It is hardly likely that Dominos would have bought the chain out in New Zealand if Pizza Haven could immediately open up again under the wing of Domino's biggest competitor! It was 'Eagle Boys' that was bought up by RBD and 'integrated' (that is business speak for closed down) to allow Pizza Hut to expand very rapidly into the takeaway end of the market.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
Would their contract with yum allow them to sell pizzas under a different brand name? Does anyone know?Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
Pizza Hut is not showing any sign of turnaround despite semantics to the contrary. An 8% sales drop is a continued implosion, not a stabilization. Perhaps too late / problematic now but they could consider reinstating Pizza Haven at the discount end to help spoil Dominos expansion. With only 3 Pizza Chains of any scale (and Hell and Dominos are really only "half" pizza chains), RBD have made a real mess of their pizza strategy.
hiawatha
At the bottom end of the market, the Pizza business is 'deal driven', not 'brand driven'. Branding is so strong (sic) at the bottom that Halebop, who IIRC has done some consulting work in this industry, couldn't even remember what brands went where! And you can bet most kiwis won't have the memory that Halebop has.
In the interest of 'research' I picked up a couple of Dominos Pizzas today, cashing in one of my mailbox coupons. I asked the girl behind the counter whether many people bothered to bring in the coupons.
"Oh yes, she said. Because the coupon's make the Pizzas sooo cheap."
Pizza Hut are already matching Dominos here in Christchurch 'dollar for dollar' with their 'Unlimited Large Favourites' for $6.90 and three large favourites for $19.90. That means on price PH is covered.
So even if RBD was allowed to set up a competing Pizza Chain to Pizza Hut, why would they? The last thing RBD needs is another layer of head office administration costs.
SNOOPY
discl: hold RBD
My failing memory is obviously matched by their ability to imprint brand on my psyche. If I buy a mass market pizza I'd typically shop from Hell, so I'm one part of the ends of the market that has already been carved off PH.
However, if you think there is no correlation between deal and brand you should go work for RBD, you'd probably fit right in. Not so long ago Briscoes conceded that all their "deals" had damaged the "brand". But they were probably just making crazy talk.
In terms of parallel brands I've worked for 1 organisation (3 distinct brands) and consulted to 2 who have this very strategy. When you operate multiple brands you do not need to add "another layer" of administration costs. (By the way, "another layer" sounds scary but I'm not clear on why it would take "another layer" to implement). Corporate services like purchasing, HR, credit control, finance, property, strategy, marketing etc would see very few changes other than branding. The entire organization might conceivably gain a 1 or 2 staff members to oversee branding (if it makes you feel better they can name the role "Deal" manager). I'm more sure still that enough fat could be found to replace 1 or 2 roles were it to come down to that.
But the real benefit of multiple brands is that you get to operate in different heads paces. Market for cheap pizza? Use the cheap pizza brand. Market for gourmet pizzas? Use the gourmet pizza strategy. But sell cheap pizza and gourmet side by side? Goodbye market share.
...or they can do nothing & keep getting chopped at both ends. By why mince with words in debate? The sum total of fundamental and share price performance more clearly demonstrates the shape of their strategy than my single suggestion.
It is too late for PH to set up another cheaper brand to compete with Dominos. They should have done that before Dom came into the market. RBD needs to flick off the lost making PH and admit defeat and concentrate on growing and perfecting KFC and STarbucks. Just need to bring in a CEO that has passion, vision and energy to grow the existing brand and maybe bring in a new brand to NZ.
WELL said BLING..[8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling
It is too late for PH to set up another cheaper brand to compete with Dominos. They should have done that before Dom came into the market. RBD needs to flick off the lost making PH and admit defeat and concentrate on growing and perfecting KFC and STarbucks. Just need to bring in a CEO that has passion, vision and energy to grow the existing brand and maybe bring in a new brand to NZ.
The Dominos strategy is to drive volume and clip the ticket on each pizza sold, with the Franchisee worrying about profitbality on a store level.
RBD has to worry about profitabilty throughout the entire value chain and unless they can operate vey efficient stores [unlikely IMO with the low paid and unmotivated managers they employ] they will struggle.
Fast food is a volume game and Dominos seem to have the advantage.
With Dominos at the bottom and Hell at the top it leaves PH to occupy the unenviable stuck in the middle position, trying to defend both ends of its market segment.
Dom's discounting can only go on for so long, before the franchisees start to question the franchise's strategy. At the end of the day, the franshisees cannot afford to make a lost long term. If the franchisees are not profitable, they will find it hard to expand and grow.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hairdresser
The Dominos strategy is to drive volume and clip the ticket on each pizza sold, with the Franchisee worrying about profitbality on a store level.
If I was RBD, I would look at doing a deal with Dom. PH and Dom do fit in nicely and can control the mid-low end market and maybe even start a new brand and take on Hell.
Hiawatha, here is what RBD management said as a prelude to the 2003 AGM, on page five of the AGM notice.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
I asked the question about operating a different brand because a few months ago a journalist crticised their decision not to retain the Eagle Boys brand name and said that it reflected bad judgment on the part of RBD management. I wondered at the time whether their contract with YUM would have allowed them to. After all, RBD outlets don't sell Coca Cola.
hiawatha
"The company has considered the possibilities for independent brand development often, in the context of its strategic planning and monitoring. However any new brands would be in addition to, not instead of the existing franchised brands."
"If (franchise agreements) were terminated following their expiry in 2007, the company will be restrained from participating in the market for a period of twelve months."
"In addition to the legal consequences, termination would result in an immediate loss of business. The company would be unable to to sell products similar to those of its former franchises. We could not, for example, sell 'Original Recipe' chicken or anything legally close to it."
My interpretation of the above is that Restaurant Brands would be restrained from operating another Pizza Chain or any chain that was broadly in the same market as either KFC or Pizza Hut. Retaining 'Eagle Boys' as a seperate brand would have bought a legal fight with YUM. IOW the journalist who suggested retaining 'Eagle Boys' hadn't done their homework.
SNOOPY
RBD could open a chain of Indian takeaways/ restaurants that stay open until about 5am these places always do well nobody appears to have a chain of Indian restaurants on a national scale,I for one would give them my dollars for a good curry after copious amounts of alcohol.
Tandoori palace do a better job than RBD ever could.
I agree but are they open at 5am and all over the country.
Thats what kebab shops and 2 4's are for.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
I agree but are they open at 5am and all over the country.
nah that doesn't work for me a good curry after a night on the beer thats the bomb
not much mopping up today scufferQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
Someone is mopping up is it you Bling, or it could be Bricks I think he likes this stock.
everybody lost interest again ..... even though the recent volumes weren't all THAT high
Does anyone have the info on hand when they complete the renewals of the rest of their franchise licenses... Or at least when the dates come up etc.
yuor right winnere69 but I still think they have got to be a good deal at these prices, it will just be a bit of a wait they will come back up.
come on snoopy .... you must have gone .... tell us all about it
teh words were so positive .... quick count of +ve words v's -ve words is 90%+ positive
must have been a exhilarating performance and worth the entry money in itself
Yeah I tramped along to the AGM at the Rydges Hotel (the old Noahs I think), Winner. I suspect that after a bad year the directors thought they would hold the meeting in a quiet southern location to take some of the heat off. Boy were they wrong! Van Arkel was on the receiving end of a bollocking from all over the floor - particularly over the line he used 'growing shareholder wealth'. Someone had calculated that from listing ten years ago RBD had destroyed on average $200,000 worth of shareholder capital every week since. And while the meeting hotted up, the after meeting eats in the next room got cold!Quote:
quote:Originally posted by winner69
come on Snoopy .... you must have gone .... tell us all about it
the words were so positive .... quick count of +ve words v's -ve words is 90%+ positive
must have been a exhilarating performance and worth the entry money in itself
No radical announcements. Indeed I had to check my Annual Report to confirm that Van Arkel was not reading from it word for word. Profit guidance was reiterated for FY2008 at $9m to $10m net of one offs 'in accordance with market expectations', helped by the closure of another six red roof Pizza Hut Restaurants and the transformation of a further 8 KFC stores.
Management was asked whether they were able to benchmark their performance against the other eight privately owned KFC restaurants in New Zealand (87 RBD owned plus 8 privately owned means a total of 95 KFC outlets operate throughput New Zealand). They replied 'no' because these operators had a direct relationship with YUM, and RBD only dealt with them as customers for their own logistics arm. Danny Diab piped up and said that the RBD KFC operations benchmarked well compared to anything that was happening in Australia (he knew most of the Australian operators personally).
We learned that RBD headquaters have moved to a new single floor open plan location in Auckland which will save rent in future years. We learned that Vicki wasn't sacked but retired from her position after being burnt out with all the problems, particularly the close down in Australia, and that she no longer had the zest to carry on after ten years in the game. The agreement on the need for new blood was mutual with the board. That was Ted's tale anyway. More importantly when one shareholder was 'baying for names' to be accountable, we learned that Rod de Vreis had been given the task of turning around the Pizza Hut New Zealand side of things but we got warned not to expect any tangible results until FY2009. This I regard as good because Rod was the driving force behind the successful expansion of Pizza Hut in the Eagle Boys acquisition years. And finally we learned that the KFC renewal of license agreement (the other half of it) was due to be signed with YUM any day.
Sue Suckling came across as quite a fiesty new director. She had already made it known that she did not consider the Starbucks experience acceptable - the restauants were not clean enough and the chairs were uncomfortable for starters. It was disclosed that Starbucks management had been out from the USA and given RBD a rev up along similar lines.
During lunch, the directors and senior staff did make a particular attempt to circulate amongst the shareholders afterwards rather than huddling together in a defensive formation. I must say I was impressed at the freebies on offer. As much as you could eat - or was that as much as you could stomach - of Pizza Hut and KFC product(there was plenty left at the end even though the turnout of shareholders was good). I reckon I consumed about twenty bucks worth of stuff including a couple of Starbucks fruit frapppachinos. Then we got a take home pack of Starbucks 'fair trade' ground coffee and a free Starbucks drink voucher to boot.
See you all at the AGM next year?
SN
Good post Snoop. You eating all our profits at the AGM mate? LOL [:p]:D
I agree Starbucks is messy and dirty. Need not only good middle management but a new and passionate CEO to save this puppy. But then if the price is right, I am sure a predator will come and have a sniff for a possible meal. There are no major shareholders to hold them back from a hostile T/O. The RBD SP at these levels and lower is cheaper then Dominos coupon pizzas. :D
Why are chronically underperforming stocks so widely and deeply discussed? I've never been able to understand the attraction.
This one is even worse than TEL!
http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/RBD628.gif
PHAEDRUS, I feel happy about people averaging down in dog companies like RBD, and TEL. I am happy to see the new CEO of TEL having a salary of 3,5 million a year in a company in a downtrend. I would hate it if these clown investors start to wise up, and be a threat in the real investing world. Some of those companies require mug investors, otherwise they would fold. Who the hell is going to buy my shares when the market turns?, so please dont educate to many of them, they are worth their weight in gold. Macdunk
What goes up must come down and vice versa as long as they don't go bust thats when the preverbial hits the fan. I think they will make a comeback but when?
HIAWATHA it certainly looks like it dont you think?. Who in their right mind would hold on to RBD averaging down making excuses for the company. We need people like that in the market other wise the market would collapse. MACDUNK.Quote:
quote:[i]Originally posted by hiawatha/quote]
"Real investing world"? You reckon that's the world you inhabit?
Oh please!!
hiawatha
MacdunkQuote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
HIAWATHA it certainly looks like it dont you think?. Who in their right mind would hold on to RBD averaging down making excuses for the company. We need people like that in the market other wise the market would collapse. MACDUNK.Quote:
quote:[i]Originally posted by hiawatha/quote]
"Real investing world"? You reckon that's the world you inhabit?
Oh please!!
hiawatha
The NZX needs investors to buy into the likes of RBD, Burgerfuel etc
Makes my decision to buy into ASX stocks while the $ is high all the better. ;)
I think its a lot more morbid to own RBD than to post about it. [:p]
...it's strange that in a forum dedicated to discussion about investing in specific securities, those with a positive view on a security often seem quite put out about the views of those who think otherwise. There is some irony in the insecurity accusation leveled at Phaedrus. Particularly as his post just states the obvious - the shares have diminished in value across numerous time frames. But then owning these securities might well expose my insecurities too.
I disagree I think these guys are just indulging in an inate desire to help their fellow man its a nurturing sort of thing a bit like teaching a kid about the stranger danger.
I have often wondered what motivates Mr P . Whenever a stock goes into a downtrend then he is sure to pop up with a chart telling us where he would of bought and sold (see sealegs thread, or charlies or almost any other for that matter).
My own theory is that he works for one of the software companies, with metastock at around a 1000 dollars including data this is a fertile hunting ground for new recruits
Posted - 03/07/2002 : 6:29:18 PM
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I bought this stock a year or two back at 1.00, was a good bargain. Now i would say its fairly priced, if it goes to 1.60 i will too be thinkin about it
ratkin
I did sell out soon after for a nice profit, the stock hasnt been all bad.
My bargain radar is once again starting to point in the direction of RBD havent held for five years now but the time may be arriving to go in again , my instinct tells me something going to happen soon (within months)
I am a value investor. Short term trend doesnt affect me at all. More an opportunity to accumulate more shares. :) If you follow the trend all the time than you too can miss out on such stocks like WHS when the market got it so so wrong. The WHS drifted downwards for a long period of time around $3-4 and then BANG! T/O came the the SP hit as high as over $7... yes Bling did own a very small bit of WHS.. thank you! :)
Bling is happy to buy more RBD if it does come down to 80 cents.:D:D
So was I :)Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
Why?
I was referring to mental attitudes, not the ownership or non ownership of shares.
I cannot understand the fixation that someone needs to own a share to comment about it. If you want to invite comment from holders only, you will get an ownership bias - obviously on some level holders are optimistic or positive about the company. To restrict input to optimists only is not balanced and does not serve holders nor potential holders of the share. Criticism and debate are healthy for everyone (even if RBD holders must suffer the "I told you so" smugness of non holders).Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
I cannot understand why the likes of MacDunk and Phaedrus keep rabitting on about shares that they don't own.
I see precisely the opposite. If you are questioning the validity of someone's contribution (rather than their contribution itself) just because it does not match your own position, the insecurity does not rest with them.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
It seems to me to be evidence of a need for reassurance.
I think that would more logically need to be closet non owners wanting to drive down the price before purchasing. But like any argument I can reverse it. Perhaps the RBD optimists are just trying to give their under-performing investment a boost with positive commentary? ...but irrespective it would be better to focus on the message than the messenger. It sharpens your own logic and decision making to analyse opposing views and determine their merit. The group think of "me too" fan boys (and girls) is asking to be punished by the market.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
Unless of course they are in fact "closet" owners hoping to drive the price down so that they can purchase more.
I am also a value investor and short term does affect me greatly. If I am lining up a long term investment in the fast food industry, which is my better entry - $2.50 or 87 cents? But to look at RBD and call the current share price a short term outcome is to not give the company it's due credit. They have been diligent at earning this particular share price re-rating and it his not been "short" in the making.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling
I am a value investor. Short term trend doesnt affect me at all.
Hiawatha and Ratkin, your replies are perfect examples of Argumentum ad Hominem. Briefly, this is defined as
"An attempt to prove someone wrong by trying to discredit his person, instead of arguing against his ideas. Generally used by people who disagree with someone but cannot find anything logically wrong with their statements.
A debater commits the Ad Hominem Fallacy when he introduces irrelevant personal premisses about his opponent, in the hope that such red herrings may successfully distract the opponent or the audience from the topic of the debate."
The topic here is RBD. The posted chart graphically demonstrates that this stock is a long-term destroyer of value. It also clearly shows the current downtrend. Given the fact that it is not hard to find fundamentally and technically sound NZ stocks, I am genuinely puzzled as to why stocks such as TEL and RBD generate such high levels of interest.
First time you have admitted holding this dog HIAWATHA. Nice to see you fronting up after hiding in the closet for all those years. This must be one of the worst investments an Indian could make on the cowboy exchange.:D:D:D MacdunkQuote:
quote:Originally posted by hiawatha
But they don't actually contribute anything. All they do is pat themselves on the back for not being holders, and jeer at the rest of us for holding. They can hardly be surprised if we jeer right back.
hiawatha
Phaedrus has a good point come on as long as both sides of the coin are discussed then its a balanced thread i mean hiawatha if u want a thread about how great RBD is going to be then do it but as long as people back up there arguments you have no right to complain about other peoples views on the stock. You dont have to hold a stock to have strong views about it and how lame would the thread be if only those with RBD wrote on it im not sure how you could be positive about the share price after Phaedrus graphics.
well if they are both egging each other on its guna continue so just stick with the facts peoples
hey mac .... one of your best comments yet ..... made me laugh .... really did mateQuote:
quote:Originally posted by duncan macgregor
This must be one of the worst investments an Indian could make on the cowboy exchange.:D:D:D Macdunk
I too do not disagree with what Phaedrus is saying , its his motivation i question.
Any five year old can see that RBD has been in a downtrend , is there any need to have it pointed out in such a smug and superior sounding manner?.
Hardly suprising that holders will be a little antagonised.
I wouldnt object quite so much if he pointed out the buy and sell points in real time, but he often makes his first appearance on a thread once the action is over, usually accompanied by a chart which points out where he would of bought and sold , when he has in reality done neither.
YOUR right rat he is yesterdays chart man but not tomorrow's MAN..[8D]Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ratkin
I too do not disagree with what Phaedrus is saying , its his motivation i question.
Any five year old can see that RBD has been in a downtrend , is there any need to have it pointed out in such a smug and superior sounding manner?.
Hardly suprising that holders will be a little antagonised.
I wouldnt object quite so much if he pointed out the buy and sell points in real time, but he often makes his first appearance on a thread once the action is over, usually accompanied by a chart which points out where he would of bought and sold , when he has in reality done neither.
"I wouldnt object quite so much if he pointed out the buy and sell points in real time"
Ratkin, I post plenty of charts giving buy or sell signals in real time. For example, [u]just this week</u> I posted a breakout from a trading range 'Buy' signal on NZO - on the actual day of the breakout. How could I possibly do any better than that?
"He often makes his first appearance on a thread once the action is over, usually accompanied by a chart which points out where he would of bought and sold , when he has in reality done neither."
What I myself do is totally irrelevant. Whether I bought, sold, held or did nothing, the chart would be exactly the same. Did I personally follow the buy and sell signals as shown on the NZO chart? Well, yes I did, actually. Not that it is any of your business.
Ratkin, many of the charts I post are to show the current status of individual stocks and therefore may not feature any recent signals. These generally take the form of :-
(1) AIR is in a steady uptrend - why would you want to sell? Why not wait until......etc.
or (2) RBD is in a downtrend - why would you want to buy? Why not wait for......etc.
You must surely realise that it would be a huge job for me to post every buy and every sell signal on every NZX stock! Why would I? Just so some twit like you can question my motivation?
Bricks, if you could give me the name of someone that could post tomorrow's chart, I would be forever in your debt. I should perhaps point out that Ratkin in fact agrees with what I say, he just doesn't like the way I say it. He's a bit sensitive like that.
:D
Wow Phaedrus, you could have saved so much angst by just posting next weeks chart. This is all your fault after all. Years of posting historical trend lines wasted when all it would have taken was a single space-time-continuum hopping post. The logic is compelling after all - who wants to waste time on probability enhancing trend analysis when we can just go straight to the next weeks / months / years price?
PHAEDRUS, Pay no attention to some of these clowns they are either playing silly buggers or will end up going broke. Its almost as frustrating as trying to teach an eight year old dummy kid the nine times table. I sometimes wonder if they really are as stupid as they pretend, and if they are, how the hell have they got the money to invest in the share market. It really boils down to the fact that it gives me a great deal of confidence having them compete with me in the market. I thought i was pretty lucky being over 100% up in six months, but reading what some of these clowns say, i think luck has nothing to do with it. Keep your charts, and comments coming some of us appreciate them. Macdunk