Annoying when a DRP is at a premium to market. Issue price: $1.32
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Annoying when a DRP is at a premium to market. Issue price: $1.32
I look at the DRP as compulsory savings. I don't need the dividend to live on so would probably have spent it on some spurious item so by the saving scheme benefit of the DRP scheme I'm actually miles ahead...and in case anyone was wondering that's what us bean counters call creative accounting :lol:
Is there a discount on the shares issued under DRP?
Well the wife's dividend is in OUR account.!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerof If you read the explanation carefully, you should be able to determine that Heartland HER Holdings held these in escrow under the lock-up agreement for Seniors. They came out of escrow today, therefore are no longer held by Heartland HER, and have passed to Seniors. So Heartland HER Holdings have declared they no longer have an interest or control over the shares. Doubtless, in due course Seniors will declare a holding of 43m. They have 7 days to make such announcement IMMSMR
percy has the goss on an orderly placement
Can I suggest $1.18 as a disposal price percy????
Despite any rumours to the contrary, Janner is not Xerof, and to completely dispel any further rumours, Xerof is not Janner (although I think we share similar musical tastes/genres, and are therefore probably about the same age)Quote:
Originally posted by Cool Bear Thanks Janner.
And $1.18 would be a great buy!
:D:D:D
Me: Billy Swan's version of 'don't be cruel'
Billy Bragg's album Workers Playtime
Good track is Waiting for the Great Leap Forward
To more serious matters..
As said when the really large jump in share price came..
I expected it to stall..
With the overhang always there.
That is out of the way..
Still think it will Hover..
Long term ?? Try and find better..
Short term.. There are better opportunities IMHO..
Disc. Holding.. ( Well enough positioned ) Not buying..
I did not want to say too much at the time,but I knew you were asking for trouble with this Zumba business you are into!!!!
Rocks the brain,gives early stages of dementia.First stage is not knowing a Xerof from a Janner.!!!
You can redeem your wicked ways by buying me a beer at our next get together.!!! lol.
Spent some of the recent dividend cash from assorted companies on a few more HNZ shares.
I am getting seriously overweight*
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
*and yes, I have a lot of HNZ shares too.
I sold all of my HNZ today for a tidy short term profit. Having read back through my recent posts, I realise that I do have a conflict and would rather not be owning a small bank working on fringe products, for the meantime, perhaps not even major banks but we'll see about that in due course. Ethics and investing is loaded with dilemma. I'm happy to take their 4.5% on call deposit rate though, I can't see why not. HNZ has had a nice run though they have yet to post successes from their various edgier investments and seem happy to go to riskier places where larger banks are equally happy to avoid. All the best to holders and accumulators.
BAA
Overhang gone as HER vendor sell out at 1.27. Great result
https://www.nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/262903
Quadrant Private Equity the buyer. Interesting. Any speculation of what their intentions are?
It does't affect the business, just the price. The vendors of the HER business had an escrow so that couldn't sell their shares until April 1. They had flagged that they were going to sell. I think the recent price weakness was partly due to this happening because big buyers were holding off hoping to get an allocation at a discounted price. Now this overhang is gone, those big buyers will need to re-enter the market,
Nice result. Many of you will be aware that Quadrant are pretty active shareholders and are in to make a buck. They had that sizeable stake they bought in SUM quite cheap, subsequently sold and did handsomely well.
Excellent result to get this very sizeable overhang done and dusted at $1.27. SP looks like a one-way bet from here :t_up:
Good news
Quadrant like winning and generally want more than steady returns. The good news is that they will drive Heartland harder than what it is now. With Quadrant on board I am more confident of my forecasts (the ones you guys think are too bullish). Quadrant will not sit back with steady as she goes attitude.
Overhang gone? Maybe not as Quadrant do exit investments on a regular basis. One thing though they don't usually stuff the price when they o exit.
Go Quadrant, rev Heartland management up. Now you have see the potential make sure it happens.
Agree with that. Great to see Quadrant take a sizeable holding. They will keep pressure on Jeff to continue reaching the goals and possibly push for the goals to be a bit more bullish. I regard Quadrant buying in as a great vote of confidence in HNZ's already announced step change towards more bullish growth.
Bought more at $1.29. I'm very bullish !!
Didn't Quadrant own most of Seniors when they sold out to Heartland?
Made heaps on that deal ..... and now coming back for more. I like it
Free lunch on offer at $1.29...best one way bet on the NZX by miles. All those insto's that missed out on a placement will be annoyed and have to buy on market.
In Specie Distribution generally means no cash changed hands
I think Quadrant owned nearly 70% of Seniors in the first instance so most of the shares issued by Heartland were theirs anyway .... is this just distributing them (what they already had anyway) amongst the funds they operate
I only jumped in again last week at $1.29..
Would be seriously overweight if I got amongst it again..
So the $1.27 wasn't a real price agreed by a willing buyer and a happy seller. Just the market price the day the paperwork done.
Irrespective of what all this really means I hope quadrant give Jeff and his team a rev up.
I am happy to have bought more at $1.29 notwithstanding the in specie nature of this transaction. Great value at that price :)
What does it really mean in regards to the overhang, are we any the wiser? On the face of it there seems to be a transfer to a more active entity. Doesn't that increase the risks to smaller holders?
Mate you're not allowed to turn into a black sheep now you've sold :)
Fact is SUM did quite well while Quadrant were on board as shareholders, not so well since. As W69 is alluding too, a significant holder of their size can be good for revving up management AKA cracking the whip :D
I have reservations about quadrant has well. Sold out. Will see from sidelines.
I think it is interesting watching the share register;who is coming,who is going,which director is buying ,which director is selling.Always interesting.With HNZ we have seen George Kerr sell out,George Gould sell down,Greg Tomlinson buy more,etc.
Being a shareholder [over 23 years] in EBO I have seen a lot of changes on their register too.
Although always interesting,I think it is of greater importance to watch the actual business;are they doing the right things,are they growing and improving the business,are they watching they have enough capital,are dividends increasing etc.Ultimately improving fundamentals will drive the share price.
IPOs are a lot different; there you must watch who the organising broker was,and where the shares went,because often they do not go to a "happy home."!!!!!!.
Some pressure on banks profits, albeit still strong, according to this article. Heartland and Co-op leading in profit growth http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11430266
We are well positioned :)
Interesting article
http://www.smh.com.au/business/banki...10-1mha28.html
At least Heartland are on the inside when P2P really takes off as its bound to if the blinkered thinking of this analyst is anything to go by - Macquarie analyst Mike Wiblin is sceptical of the long-term potential for peer-to-peer lending to be the "game changer" that proponents claim.
P2P gaining traction because people don't trust banks and bankers any more. I'm in that as greedy bankers, Heartland included, are slowly destroying te world.
...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.
Some might say that with excessive interest margins (ones even Shylock would be proud of) nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.
Yes I guess it is like a lot of things in life.Three or more sides to every story.
I would think your view on banks would vary depending on whether you are a depositor,borrower,or an owner.
I am reminded of the chap who told his friends, at the bowling club, he was taking his money out of his bank and putting it with a finance company, to get a higher interest rate.Then told his friends his son far was having to work a lot of extra overtime to pay his mortgage,as the bank was charging him too higher an interest rate.....
What is your old saying,"the more things change,the more they remain the same."??!!
I've been wondering about this - is the higher interest margin here the sign of a well run business, or is it purely related to a higher proportion of risky loans? Are they getting cheaper funding (presumably not with the new market beating savings account), are customers willingly paying higher interest or are they taking business that no-one else will touch?
I have no axe to grind here, just curious to see what peoples interpretation of this is? Is it an asset or a warning sign?
Welcome mfd,and Winner69 is our resident axe grinder!!!! lol..
Heartland Bank is not low margin home mortgage driven,as is the case with the "major" banks.
Heartland Bank has a wide spread of more profitable,usually shorter term loans.The spread include Resverse equity loans on houses,Motor Vehicle, and equipment loans,Rural loans often on livestock,and seasonal loans.
So the makeup of Heartland Bank's lending is in the more profitable areas.
Any investor in banks, or finance companies, needs to keep an eye on the spread of loans,ie not too many eggs in one basket,and the level of bad loans.Heartland Bank has a good spread of loans and impairements [bad loans] are at acceptable levels.
Nice summary.
Some of the left leaning socialist views expressed on this page are quite surprising from one that clearly knows the basics of capitalism 101 extremely well, not you mate this is directed at someone else.
Some could be forgiven for thinking a certain poster sold down their position and is trying to jawbone the SP down.
Hopefully this post turns the page...as much of this one simply isn't worth reading, opps did I really say that out loud lol
Damm it didn't. Okay... best I post some more content then.
I watched HNZ's elongated new reverse equity mortgage television advertisement this morning.
Leaving aside the issue of whether this makes a quick and punchy / cost effective campaign or not...
It certainly makes an emotional argument about helping older folks stay where they belong in their own homes where they feel most comfortable.
A left leaning anti capitalist would of course try and make the argument that such loans to old folks are a scandal seeing they're at greater margins that for regular bank loans and seeing as potentially they could make quite a significant impact on the next generations inheritance.
On the other hand a right thinking capitalist would make the case that they're providing a profoundly valuable service helping our seniors stay in their homes and enjoy a quality lifestyle or much needed medical services or whatever other thing an older client might like.
Remind me again who's equity in who's home is it and who's right is it to make their own decisions about spending some of it ?
Its all about one's perspective...
I think with all due respect to our friends apparently new found social conscience, references to shylock type lending rates are best directed at the pay day lenders charging exorbitant interest rates.
I wouldn't invest in one of those payday lending operations as a matter of principle and I would venture to suggest many shareholders in HNZ would find the suggestion that their bank is a shylock operation quite offensive.
Have we turned the page yet ?
No Okay...what else.
Well many will be somewhat perplexed by this weeks turn of events with Quadrant private equity's apparent placement of the stake it already had from its ownership of Seniors limited when their stake of 43m shares vested, came out of escrow.
A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.
Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications.
So what to make of this peculiar arrangement ?
We see its been placed in two of quadrants funds which possibly suggests either:-
1. Its been placed there to stay more permanently than would have been suggested by the previous press release saying they were going to sell their stake
2. Quadrant don't think this is the opportune time to sell.
3. Both of the above.
It seems to me that the market was extremely well informed of their intention to sell down as expressed many months ago
To my mind its extremely rare for a major shareholder to signal their intent so many months in advance and the market very clearly anticipated a placement of some sort with most major institutions withdrawing their bids in recent weeks.
The subsequent effect on the SP was plain for all to see.
Seeing as the market was so primed for a placement and one didn't occur what do we make of this ?
Its appears to me Quadrant simply aren't prepared to sell into a placement that would probably have had to be made in the low $1.20 range to get the volume away and done and dusted.
At the minimum we can draw the conclusion reading between the lines, (those of us interested in such capitalist ramblings and theories that is), that Quadrant as an activist private equity fund with a long and well established and reputation, see value in HNZ at the current level..so maybe the silly old accountant who thought the overhang had gone and bought anyway, wasn't so silly after all :)
Surely this elongated post turns the page of some strange previous left wing ramblings.
No okay its time for an update and some fundamental analysis then.
Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2015 are 10.2 cents per share. This puts them on a 2015 PE at $1.29 of 12.64 which in my view is very cheap for a bank growing EPS at a very healthy rate.
Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2016 are 11.0 cents per share.
Prospective Dividend Yield 2015.
We have 3.0 cents fully imputed in the bank as we know. I'm expecting 4.5 cents fully imputed for the final divvy so that's 7.5 cents fully imputed for the year. 7.5 / 0.72 = 10.417 cents gross or a gross divvy yield of 8.07%.
Prospective Dividend Yield 2016
The company has a good record of growing dividends so for those that think a minimum of one year ahead, (the writer included), we could estimate dividends next year at 8.5 cps fully imputed or 11.81 cents gross. This puts HNZ on a prospective 2016 gross dividend yield of 9.16%.
Obviously this is vastly higher than what you'll get out of any of the Australian owned banks, one or two of which only offer partial imputation with their more meagre dividends.
9.16% divvy yield and with the prospect of growing steadily in subsequent years is enough to get any dividend hound with any kind of vague idea of sniffing for a big steady feed absolutely salivating with delight.
It seems I need some help to turn the page so would some else please chime in with some worthy insights.
More content on how banks actually help their clients grow their business and help our older folks enjoy staying in their homes would be most welcome :)
Crikey this turned into a very long page, probably not helped by this post lol
Still we have yet to turn the page so its time for more debate...Are Banks Evil ?
Well that depends, banks are a necessary Evil but they don't have to be EVIL.
So what makes a bank Evil ?Quote:
Are Banks Actually Evil, or Does It Just Seem That Way?
By John Maxfield | More Articles
January 25, 2015 | Comments (18)
It has been more than six years since the nation's biggest financial institutions crashed the global economy and had to be bailed out by U.S. taxpayers. However, this shouldn't be interpreted to mean Wall Street financiers are now on the straight and narrow.
Last week, the country's four largest banks by assets reported earnings for the final three months of 2014. Aside from Wells Fargo, it was an altogether dismal affair.
In addition to the widely publicized impact of lower trading revenue, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, and Citigroup all suffered from larger than expected legal expenses that weighed on their bottom lines.
The expenses weren't related to the behaviors that caused the financial crisis, which, it's worth pointing out, cost the banks tens of billions of dollars in legal fees and expenses over the last few years. They stemmed instead from new allegations of malfeasance, such as rigging foreign-exchange markets.
With this in mind, you'd be excused for wondering if the banks learned anything from the reputational damage they suffered during and after the crisis. And you'd also be excused for wondering, as I do in the presentation below, whether our biggest banks are actually evil, or if it just seems that way.
Bank of America + Apple? This device makes it possible.
Apple recently recruited a secret-development "dream team" to guarantee its newest smart device was kept hidden from the public for as long as possible. But the secret is out, and some early viewers are claiming it's destined to change everything from banking to health care. In fact, ABI Research predicts 485 million of this type of device will be sold per year. But one small company makes Apple's gadget possible. And its stock price has nearly unlimited room to run for early in-the-know investors. To be one of them, and see Apple's newest smart gizmo, just click here!
Some perspective. Do we see HNZ leveraging themselves by a factor of 800 in the derivative markets and making what amounted to a one-way bet on the derivative market such that if the bet failed there was no choice but to socialise the losses like a certain American bank did ?
Do we see HNZ packing up bunches of extremely dodgy loans and securitising them and encouraging Standard and Poors to rate there CDO's as AAA and sell them to an unsuspecting public that didn't understand those investments like another American Bank did and Forsyth Barr did with their Credit Sails CDO's they sold to unsuspecting elderly clients as a safe and sound fixed interest product !!
No we see fair and reasonable interest rates for the risks involved.
Hmm, well I was wondering what to do with my GNE dividends...will give it further thought before 16 April.
On weekends (and other times) I return to my socialist roots. All I want is a caring and compassionate world which is fair and equal to all. Sadly corporatocracy and the relentless pursuit of growth and ever increasing profits is not working towards this.
I still have my pile of Heartland shares. As mentioned before I am severely compromised morally and ethically by doing so, and in pushing them to do even better. However an accidental 'capitalist' has to do something with his riches eh. It will probably all end up be given away anyway.
For the sake of this thread I will leave it that. I won't share my experiences of Occupy camps or anti-trade agreement marches but will still share my fundamental insights on Heartland.
However one last thought - if somebody offered you a 12% to 15%pa guaranteed return forever you all as wise people would ask 'what's the catch'
We're all good mate, I'm sure you already know I value your input on here...just thought some of your more left leaning implications merited a fulsome response.
I just thought I'd fill in a boring afternoon with some counter points and musings.
I don't feel conflicted with HNZ. People need banks and its a natural part of the process that there's multiple stakeholders involved, shareholders, depositors, lenders, employees.
The way HNZ operates seems fair and reasonable to me.
If you feel guilty about the side of you that doesn't mind making a profit from your capital, or like many others want an effective way of doing good for the needy and hungry perhaps investing some social capital in this might be a good way to make you feel better and balance the ledger a little. I like the fact that one's donation of kindness is not a hand-out per se, but its a way that your donation is recycled over and over again as previously dependent people get on their feet with their own micro enterprise and pay their loan back. 98% loan repayment rate is pretty impressive for micro enterprise in the developing world, wouldn't you agree !
What about putting a small portion of each HNZ dividend into Microenterprise ?
http://www.tearfund.org.nz/micro-ent...-it-works.html
I didn't read the announcement at first. I was sucked in by reading the posts on this thread. I forgot that those who love a company only read and take on board what they want. They saw a SSH for one entity and the magical $1.27. Great news that was, overhang gone in one foul swoop and a good price as well. Must be right I assumed.Quote:
Quote Roger - A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.
Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications
Lesson for the week, check the facts for oneself when apparent igood news is posted here. I was sucked in when I shouldn't been.
Paris to Roubaix race was bloody exciting. Best for years with the strongest guy winning .....and Sixer Southee hit a last ball FOUR to get his team home in the IPL ....and it's started to pour again
So we read the announcement wrong.
We were wrong for approx. 3 hours !!
Yet it just shows the depth of talent here on sharetrader, that the full understanding of "in specie" distribution was picked up.
I therefore think our "social" network is working just fine,delivering us a platform to share information,views and ultimately, to make better informed investment decisions..
Well, HNZ now my largest holding after last weeks opportune ? purchase. Maybe I could get a loan from HNZ to rebalance my portfolio. Would that be "in specie" :)
Only joking...actually sitting on 13% cash in my portfolio and I need to see my portfolio / the market heading north again before Im prepared to consider any more deployment.
I sold some HNZ over the past two weeks to redeploy capital into the ASX (with the NZD being so strong!). Still very happy with HNZ and will be investing further as capital permits :)
I must admit I am in agreement with HSBC economist Paul Bloxham,who said;
"The NZ economy is out performing every other OECD economy.It was the fastest growing of 34 OECD economies in the last year.And we think that situation's going to continue this year as well.
The Australian economy,in contrast,is at the end of a mining boom.Mining investment is falling,and the rest of the economy is 'so-so'."
With fully imputed dividends, and a strengthen NZ dollar, I am happy to be over weighted with both Heartland and other NZ shares,
The share price is stagnant as ...not good
Jeff needs to make some sort of announcement .....about anything but mention the words few million something's. or tell Forbar something so they can do another paper.
They need to keep the momentum going or else the share price will slowly die.
C'mon Jeff do something, that's what you paid for
Hopefully it gathers some momentum! Bought in again at 1.29. Very overweight :p
Fundamentally Its a very cheap growth stock paying a prospective fully imputed gross yield of 9% for 2016, i.e. you're being paid very handsomely while you get your growth...such a stock is a very rare beast on the NZX.
Some silly bugger called it fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February and suggested gains would be much harder to come by in the next 3 months....but I'm calling it as undervalued now having ostensibly done nothing and tracked sideways for 3 months. Sitting right on the maximum 20% allocation in my portfolio...we are well positioned :)
Yes used my gne dividend (receive it tomorrow) to buy more at 1.29.