I thought Muller handled some rigorous questioning well. He's not the most charismatic bloke, but I'll take competence and honesty over Cindy's Cabinet of Incompetents any day.
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Not only incompetents but consummate CYA practitioners as well - see the way that Comrade Cindy & David Clark shifted the blame very quickly today in unison for the quarantine stuff up to Dr Bloomfield?
They referred on numerous occasions to the assurances of testing by the Director General of Health - when of course Dr Bloomfield himself relied upon his staff on the ground & their assurances to carry out instructions, just as the government relied upon Dr Bloomfield.
Dr Bloomfield has accepted responsibility but not David Clark or Comrade Cindy.
Why do you think they should take 'blame'?
They asked all the right questions and got the answers that satisfied them.
They'd be to blame if they hadn't asked the questions.
Or should they have gone up to Auckland to manage all this themselves - be in many places at the same time?
Yes, it should be easy to find a sacrificial lamb or two - not a minister, of course!Quote:
So at worst a staff or few could be sacked. Great the army coming in to put some discipline into lockdown.
;)
Well someone made the call thinking they were doing the right thing being kind and breaking the protocols to allow these people to go( under strict conditions luckily). the buck stops wit them. Hopefully we will hear the full story and said person/s will be given another chance unless they have history of rule breaking.
Same as Dr Bloomfield, right?
Is he expected to go up to Auckland to manage all this himself? Surely he should be able to rely on the Auckland staff as well.
He accepted responsibility for his staff but Comrade Cindy & David Clark (who breached lockdown conditions twice) are not prepared to accept ultimate responsibility being the two highest up in charge. They cannot bring themselves to be responsible for Dr Bloomfield but were very very happy to bask in his success when things were going well?
Jonu is one mixed up dude ehh. Aah well heres hoping he gets a hospital pass so to speak, one day and learns a few life lessons and then gets back up again.Lifes been a silver spoon by the looks of it.
No threat to you FP, think irrelevant ,stale ,biased. Your complete lack of knowledge about RNZ says it all.
Good to see you back to your favourite ways JT, personally attacking posters you don´t agree with (and you don´t know at all) ike your last 2 posts. Shameful.
Sadly you might have to get used to it or put him on ignore, as we go into an election, history shows how some members here will treat anything contrary to their party line. The abuses and intolerance of any dissenting opinion will be Vilified as will the poster, especially after G&T time.
There we go again baabaa.I disagree with you,put yourself on ignore by all means.Nobody goes in my ignore bin,have to hold them to account.
Yes it is very different. We are on here to debate politics and politicians and "motley crew" for example, can hardly be called a personal attack by any stretch of the imagination.. John Key was called many worse names than what you refer to here about the current PM., which is just a short version nickname of her first name A bit like former PM William was called Bill !!
Constantly attacking posters with personal slurs is in a totally different league and is totally unnecessary on here and shows a complete lack of tolerance for different views, which I though was the whole reason we all obviously like to visit this site.
With the election nearing it would be nice if we all refrain from it. It makes the discussions more interesting.
Well tell your mates to stop doing it then, are you blind? Unbelievable how much blind bias is here.Some extremely offensive posters on here who i will always hold to account.;) They know who they are and its been going on a long time.
I will spell it out for you JT. Its ok for posters here to call politicians nick names and "attack" other politicians. (as you seem to do regularly) It is not ok for posters to attack other posters. (as you also seem to do from time to time) Got it? Clear enough for you?
You can debate each other to Kingdom come but I'm blaming the current gov't re latest CoVid-19 fiasco. And I'm not going to watch Bloomfield's noontime show anymore as almost everything said before got lies in them.
Whatever.This is a political thread and on here i will give as good as i get, get it?
National Radio today some great interviews show Quarantine has been way too lax with intermingling, tests not being done etc. Also AIR NZ crew can fly home domestically after an international flight! Lots of tweaking required right now! In NZ we seem to naively trust people to do the right thing but there are too many temptations especially when you see other bubble groups mingling. In Aus and China (on Radio NZ) you dont get given a key you're in your room the whole time.
So Comrade Cindy has admitted she has a bunch of incompetents as she needs to bring in the army to manage the quarantine regime.
What the freaking hell does she have a Minister of Health then for?
Oh I forgot - she was going to fire him, remember but realized that he is probably the best she has got in her bunch of non-performers.
Soldier in every hallway with fixed bayonets to prod the sociable humans back in.Gotta get alot tougher, no key given, food delivered, removes temptation for humans to socialise.
No way get fcuked with that idea. I would not want to live in such a society, irrespective of our overlords being of the right or left wing persuasion. This covid thing is not that dangerous for a country to lock up the majority of its populace and enforce draconian authoritarian rule.
Yes we need authoritarian in this case, and they need to be locked in their rooms (with ensuite). Humans are gregarious, if they find a way to socialise they will justify breaking their bubbles and do it. To err is to be human.
Otherwise we could end up with the cruise ship petri dish experience.
Yeah politicians are fair game. But posters are not was my inference. I will not attack you personally westerly even though I may find your comments abhorrent. (as an example). But politicians are in the public spotlight and are fair game. But frowny face is hardly an attack is it :)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12340991
Comrade Cindy is not going to like the current negative international media attention on the quarantine fiasco & bungle.
Shows up the bunch of incompetents she has no choice but to keep as ministers because there are no others.
And they want to manage NZ economy out of the recession?
It seems unfair that you can attack someone who is not here to defend themselves, like politicians. Name-calling of politicians is bullying and online bullying is not okay. I don’t think politicians are fair game just because they are in the public spotlight. It would be great if you attacked the issue rather than the person. Many of the comments are too emotional and lack any substance. It would be better if people did their venting in private rather than in a public forum.
The reason I don't like her is the continuous stream of virtue signaling BS that emanates from her most times she speaks. I don't like being patronised. I'm not in Primary School now.
She was noticeably absent from standing alongside Dr Bloomfield today. Interestingly, he made it clear that it was the All of Government committee that was responsible for the quarantine cockups. A buck that would ultimately stop with virtue signaling Cindy. Hence her absence.
Lack of accountability has been a hallmark of her government. This breeds contempt for your superiors and no doubt contributed to the failings in quarantine. People feel they can BS their way through stuff without consequence. Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.
Dirty attempt at a stitchup here from David Clark and Chris Hipkins. Trying desperately to muddy the waters. Read to the end of the article and their dirty cynical attempt is patently shown up.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...o-have-covid19
Despicable
No probs , i have contempt for your contempt. It seems some around here have trust issues.That could be great growth edge to work on. Seriously, we've only got one life here in this form imo, although im open to reincarnation.;)
Cindy's mindset laid bare for all to see right here. At least Winston gets it.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...da-ardern-says
The best one of all Jong Kee, qutie a crackup.
https://imgur.com/a/4w2Oa
TV1 tonight - impression of a government under siege after enjoying the adulation of all & sundry.
The quarantine fiasco shows how nasty & incompetent Comrade Cindy’s government really is - shifting blame & looking hopelessly out of control.
Kiwibuild, CGT, light rail, child poverty, Pike River etc and now Quarantine - what a joke of a government! All talk and no substance.
bring Simon back please. this todd guy will leave it up to god to sort out.
Chris Bishop advocated for the two women and the women were economical with the truth imo
https://youtu.be/_IGbc9nfr10
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...-border-bungle
Comrade Cindy showing her true colours - happy to take all the credit & bask in the accolades but no responsibility for the quarantine fiasco.
Cindy, your other name is Grubby.
Which shows how utterly ridiculous it is to even consider "compassionate release". Simply should be 14 days mandatory quarantine, stop the 5 star BS at $6,200 a pop and put people into cheaper motels, no exceptions from the rules and testing + confirmed negative before release. Current rules and compliance are pathetic.
Agree .kiwis trust too much.Locked in their units i reckon.
Your name should be Unbalanced
The cause of the recent border problems would be this court decision.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12329451
Puts the authorities on the back foot.
westerly
Garbage - the breach resulted from the two women being released without testing. Basic and totally irresponsible.
And all the examples of lax quarantine measures? Nothing to do with the court decision but the government & MOH taking their attention away from the job, so awashed were they with the accolades of the wonderful job they did with the lockdown.
Excellent move, solid dependable reliable.
Megan Woods to oversee managed isolation and quarantine facilities
I posted this four days ago. Here is a summary of replies I had from Coalition supporters.
POST 4585...Panda-NZ deflects to Nats list. No defence.
POST 4587...tim23 supports Panda's deflection
POST 4597...joshuatree confuses Twyford's incompetence with David Clark.
POST 4609...westerly tells me it's not my decision...deflects to Muller
POST 4610...joshuatree calls me "one mixed up dude" and in need of a hospital pass. Also apparently life has been a silver spoon.
It is clear, that even to the regular defenders of the Ardern Cabinet, Twyford's promotion is mystifying. Not one coherent defense of Phil Twyford even attempted.
I'll ask the question again? Has he got dirt on someone? Has he pulled strings in the party? Has he earned his promotion in the List on merit?
Thanks for the reply Panda. Finally someone at least trying to respond to the question. What has Mr Twyford done? I think the problem lies in what he has NOT done.
Kiwibuild abject failure was absolutely nothing to do with apprentices. I have personal experience which I won't bore you with.
Then we can start on Auckland Light Rail....which is more than Twyford has.
Then Transmission Gully, the biggest job on his books....turning it to a complete cockup and he hadn't even visited it. Not that far from his Wellington office is it?
I believe these issues have all been canvassed well outside the "National media bubble". Perhaps those in the "Labour media bubble" shut it out.
Anyone else care to mount a defense for Mr Twyford and his promotion up the list to No.4?
Kiwibuild was Labour policy since 2012, flagship policy in 2 elections. Mostly the responsibility of Mr Twyford. Plenty of time to put a workable plan together. Didn't happen.
Obviously.
There are hundreds of Kiwibuild homes ready to buy but unsold. Last report 11 were sold in April.
Mr Twyford is widely regarded as incompetent in relation to Kiwibuild, including by his boss. Do you disagree?
It was the concept and so many barriers,RMA etc which made it a hospital pass.The aspiration was admirable but the execution unachievable. I dont judge him incompetent for that. How does one learn to be an expert in their field, learn from any mistakes and under promise next time or be more realistic.
Disagree. Several points of failure but the main problem IMO was not understanding the - and their - market. Wrong locations, wrong density, wrong rules, and in some cases way wrong mix of social, Kiwibuild and private market. And that is just scratching the surface of the issues.
The Unitec development plan for example is for roughly a third social housing. Private buyers, Kiwibuild or not, will run a mile if they have any sense.
Almost all of the above rests firmly on one incompetent head.
Yup - Kainga Ora (rebadged housing department to try & hide Kiwibuild disaster) has been trying very very hard to push & persuade developers to build 60/40 split state/Kiwibuild/private developments of apartments, terrace housings & attached housing.
Vision of utopia - State tenants & private home buyers living side by side in blissful harmony, lots of kindness and consideration. 😁
Zero success as one developer too many have got burnt in the past - stuck with unsold units which they ended up selling to Housing NZ at a discount.
How about being in charge of Kiwibuild for several years, talking to the industry players involved and setting up a detailed and costed plan to deliver? And being the very well paid boss to do that.
That might actually work.
Feel you are trying to justify lack of preparation, planning and frankly intelligence as just making a few mistakes.
Transmission Gully seems to be a National party cockup ? https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/05/0...smission-gully
westerly
Good factual posts artemis to shut down the myth they are trying here that Kiwibuild was just a small mistake to learn from. What utter nonsense, as you have pointed out. It was clearly pointed out to them before the elections that it was destined to fail as it immediately did due to all the things you have pointed out. The PM gave Twyford a vote of no confidence by removing him from that portfolio but here she is a few months later promoting him. Her decisions make no sense.
............
The project seemed to be running reasonably satisfactorily after being established by the Nats. Covid has derailed it and Twyford was no where to be seen. They could have kept critical staff/teams going under essential workers etc.
Twyford as overseeing Minister needed to be a clear and decisive link between the government's Covid Response and the project. Given the Government's team was effectively Ardern and Robertson, what the hell was Twyford doing for 8 weeks as his biggest project fell apart? Earning a promotion?
Try as you might, you cannot blame him for this one.https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07...folly-of-ppps/
westerly
Because government delivered projects have such a compelling track record? This is not a binary choice of PPP's = bad Government controlled = good. The devil is in the detail of management, and what risk each entity is prepared to accept.
Perhaps you should include punctuation in your comments.
e.g. how tim23 manages to make one sentence out of the following is puzzling to me,
'Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.'
I don't claim to be perfect in my use of the language. What I do find enlightening, is the continual deflection and personal stuff being thrown about since Ardern's motley crew have finally come under some serious scrutiny.
The blind adherence to the Cult of Cindy is staggering, even when confronted with the most obvious cockups!