Yeah but everyone wants to be a Winner ;)
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My strategy is two fold: if
a) the price rises to punch through what I've just sold at (i.e. 149c), then I buy on the up, otherwise if
b) the price continues to fall as it is now, I buy in again where it looks like support is confirmed...in a few days time (after this report is more publically digested and no more news for a week or so brings with it less interest and hype).
BC
Following on from my "private sales" comment...
You have 70k new bladder cancer patients a year. In the time the lab was open that is about 10k patients diagnosed with bladder cancer... say one in ten actually did some research on the internet about their condition and found CxBladder (it would be hard to miss). Say only 1 in 10 went and ordered a test... that would still be ~100 tests and 50k in revenue. But I just saw - page 6 - two sold in the US. Hmmmm....
1/1000 is probably more accurate and look, that's about what we have. It's not like buying a pregnancy test and even then someone that thought they were pregnant would go to a doctor to get a proper check. Until it's offered and fully endorsed by doctors sales won't move dramatically. Consumers aren't self informed to that degree when it comes to medical care. If they were, everybody would be buying testing kits the minute any kind of self diagnosable issue arose instead of simply talking to their doctor and then (and this is key) taking their advice, not the internet.
First commercial sales in the USA were only announced in mid October. So nothing was ever going to appear in this report
I liked that the share price didn't go crazy after the announcement. So it seems what was reported was largely expected. However, I will closely monitor the trend of the SP as smart money will decide how to interpret the report and forward looking statements. Will keep a tight stop-loss at $1.38.
For those of you who havent already come across this on the DIL site....
Pretty solid day considering the predictably unspectacular report. I'm guessing most people knew what the report would show, knew that any action so far was from October onwards, and realised the story hasn't changed from this morning.
Bodes well for next week and beyond but it may depend on how long people will wait for anotehr announcment before the next figures are released. Might be a little more scrutiny on sales figures for the next quarterly than before.
Those that dont really buy into the potential might present some good top up opps over the coming week, but I dont see it dropping too far, if at all, as the potential is the story and that seems to be nicely on track, so I suspect a few more buyers (me included) ready to snap up a few more. Maybe Dec 4 will be a mini test of investor confidence.
Actually thats not true, personally I didnt think there had been any sales yet. Three is a comical number, in some ways none sounds better, but I'm not sure people were expecting much more? End of September, nothing sales wise going on before that. Could be wrong and can only speak for myself.
The idea of people selling out on the news doesnt make sense either. I would be surprised if people bought this stock for the pre September sales volumes, I believe they bought for the potential of future sales, which is untouched by this report.
Lets help our friend Moosie calibrate: Were people honestly surprised at the lack of sales to the end of September?
Monday's normally more of a buyer's day than a holder/seller's - i.e. prices tend to drift lower.
I've sold not so much on fundamentals, which I agree are strong, but on:
a) chart technicals -- today's high of 153 is lower than yesterday's 160 which could be trending down from last month's 164 (adjusted). If Monday we have a lower high (i.e. less than 153) and a lower low (i.e. less than 143), then that would confirm for me a downward trend (probably short-term?).
b) market sentiment following the half year report which although not unexpected by many on this thread, still reads poorly financially.
I hope I'm wrong for the sake of those still holding, but my guess (which I'm trading to) is that bears will be in control until the next announcement.
Remember also that over the next few weeks (one, two or three) we are likely to see a significant correction to Equity markets as Hedge Funds, etc take profits and begin to close accounts for the year.
When that happens, biotechs will be vulnerable given their risk profile.
BC
Yes, next report is 6 months away.
I bet you, next announcement with a provider won't be 6 months away.
If the announcement is with medicare, you would want to be in huh?
8.6 million people increased the SP by 18% intraday high, imagine what 150 million would do? :)
Why be out for now? who knows when the next provider is signed up?
ACP was signed up 2 days after fedmed...
So who knows huh?
And like many people have said, if PEB can signed 2, they can get the third (which they have). If they can sign 3, can they do 4,5 or 8?
I'll rather be in than out.
Yes, next report is 6 months away.
I bet you, next announcement with a provider won't be 6 months away.
Even 1month, 2 months is too long for a trader, so totally understand!
If the announcement is with medicare, you would want to be in huh?
8.6 million people increased the SP by 18% intraday high, imagine what 150 million would do? :)
Why be out for now? who knows when the next provider is signed up?
ACP was signed up 2 days after fedmed...
So who knows huh?
And like many people have said, if PEB signed 2 up, they can get the third (which they have). If they can sign 3, can they do 4,5 or 8?
I'll rather be in than out.
Churrrrr
Today's announcement of the conversion of preference shares to ordinary shares worried me when I saw the percentage of total class issued 2.5%.
Luckily someone can not use a calculator and the result is nearer to 0.25%.
Meanwhile there was another announcement today which was even less exciting.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
I personally think the shares will drift lower - maybe closer to the 1.40 mark next week. Not because the report said anything inherently bad but mainly because it didn't say anything amazing and there'll be a few people out there who enjoyed the activity while it lasted and will now move on to something new. My impression is that people trade on news and no news is not good news for them so they'll pull out and find a new stream to play in. Personally, I like the look of the product. I would like to get in but not at the current price and I'll be watching on regulation of LDTs. I'd like to know how Cxbladder stacks up in terms of the rigor put into the product testing by PEB. I assume it's pretty good but would be nice to know to hear some commentary from them on possible regulation and how they feel they'd negotiate any possible barriers in the future. N'est-ce pas?
Will always be the case, Hancocks, that short term traders will be attracted by uptrending volatile stocks.
Makes them feel like masters of the stock trading universe, buying in and selling out for 10% odd gain.
Then talking up or talking down the stock to fit their trading position.
Meanwhile, those who patiently invest and sit on the stock makes several hundred %tage gains - like PEB from 28 cents to $1.40 (400%).
The short term traders make their 25% and good on them.
So come one, come all - it's all in perspective.
One thing for sure, those of us who have followed your postings know we owe you big for being so patient and your willingness to share your analysis and knowledge.
Cheers and wishing you a good weekend!
Let's enjoy the fact that PEB is post its capital raising and is sitting close to its all time high.
Perhaps you all can check my understanding of the cxbladder loop with this example, not having a background in insurance myself;
Say Chuck is a machine operator in Ohio who has just had another routine random drug test, no drugs were discovered as usual, but the drug test lab noted blood present in the urine sample. Quite worried, Chuck appropriately takes the afternoon off work, goes to his trusted GP who for caution refers him onto a specialist. (Aside, this scenario happened to a former colleague of mine when he visited Tiwai Point).
The specialist urologist pops a cxbladder test kit out of his draw and while Chuck is in the next room peeing in a jar for the second time in a week the urologist fills out the accompanying form with all Chuck’s important insurance and policy number details. Chuck does not have medicare coverage but does have a plan with ACME insurance which is provided through his employer.
PEDusa receives Chucks sample, processes it, and returns the test results within six days. The urologist explains to Chuck that there is no cancer, must have been last week’s spicy meatloaf, but come back for a follow up test in six months to be sure.
PEDusa note from their database that ACME insurance are a registered client of one of the PPO’s with whom PEDusa have a contract to deliver tests at a special price of $550. PEDusa thus invoice ACME directly at this special rate and duly receive payment within the next accounting cycle.
Chuck gives up meatloaf, continues to produce widgets in the factory, and lives happily ever after satisfied knowing he was neither probed nor charged a cent.
So, between the signed up PPO’s that PEB now have on the books, FedMed, ACPN, and Stratose there are presently 60 million potential Chuck’s with standing insurance policies, ready and waiting if a cxbladder test is required. Have I got this right ?
Haha, Hancocks, even saints have limits to their patience and I don't think you would want to be considered a saint!
The ones I find most amusing (and maybe most annoying) are those who do bugger all analysis, have missed the boat and ruefully watch from the shore, jumping up and down at every small wave pronouncing that the small wave is going to capsize the super liner!
What to do but throw them a few sympathy glances once a while?
Just a point if anyone can help. They say there have been three sales. Does this mean there have been three actual cases processed through the lab in Hershey, accounts have been sent and payment received. Presumably there is a bit of the old " 20th of the month following" which gives a lead time of about six weeks in some cases. So in real terms the sales figure could possibly only reflect July to Mid August and possibly none of September at all
Perhaps it would be more revealing to know how many kits are going out the door rather than in.:)
I believe your pretty close, but missing the key piece of the puzzle. ACME (as an inurance provider) still has to approve CX-bladder as a product that they will re-imburse. The economic evaluation of a product will be decided by those that pay the money (the insurance companies), so we must wait until they are satisifed that using Cx-bladder is worth more to them than the status quo! These PPO's that have been signed, really do act as middle men and payment processors. One of the benfits for a small insurer is to hook into these networks as the networks become large and they ca push on price by buying on bulk. If you go and have a look at the largest health insurers in america (Kaiser, Wellpoint, United Health, Aetna, BSBC) they have coverage of ~ 10m + lives, and because of this will have extensive networks of their own (as Frank lucas famously put it, "go direct to the manufacturer, cut out all the middlemen"). I must admit I am quite astonished at how the market has priced these PPO deals, they dont allow someone to be reimbursed for using CX-bladder, and in fact their business model relies on having every medical product available on earth on their books so they can clip the ticket as often as possible.. Lets hope thenext signing is an insurance provider, allthough I wouldnt really be expecting that until at least March - June next year...
And that’s entirely fair isn’t it Intel, why should an insurer pay until they have already pre-approved cxbladder as one of their policy diagnostic tests. I guess the good thing about getting the PPO’s on board, as a first step, is that they may also assist PEB in endorsing and possibly pushing the 30% reduction in work up cost message to the insurers.
But, it is a five year plan not a five day plan after all, and the initial thrust may well be getting the PPO’s on board, gaining insurer approvals as they go, and GP’s and urologists progressively giving it a go once they know the patients don’t have to pay. I suspect though we will never know when insurers have pre-approved, or how many, this might be a good question for the next AGM in Dunedin.
In terms of SP valuation, I reckon bringing the PPO’s on board and having price points contractually set is good progress and PEB have recently affirmed that they are on track in meeting the five year $100M revenue goal.
My FA suggests PEB is fairly priced at present at $1.50, undervalued if you hold with the view that the $20.5M capital raising and the earlier engagement of the 19 sales staff will bring forward the proposed revenue stream.
i guessed 3 sales based on us revenue on NZ$2k. That is revenue so would mean invoice issue, not necessarily paid. They may have received a few more pots of piss but not invoiced yet - it depends on their revenue recognition policy (refer DIL for complications companies face).
I also point out that guess is based on revenue. They may have done lots of free tests as part of user trials, new customer sign ups etc. I don't think the testers would have been doing nothing, waiting for the mail each day.
Here's the present sales status from the recent capital raising presentation for those who didn't participate. It does seem that the first significant sales fell just outside the HY reporting period, shame really, but it equally seems all a bit academic within a five year plan.
Attachment 5121
Ok thanks everyone.
Now what I get out of all that is the kits are sold for x dollars and the processing comes later at x dollars.
A bit like film processing back in the days when they did such things.
Do you get a free kit thrown in with your process results?:)
not convinced yet.., director are selling shares..take profit..indicating price is high enough
Capital raisings dust, lot’s to look forward to in 2014 when you pick through recent releases;
Announcements ahead, prospectively for Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Association, Kaiser Permanente, Intermountain and perhaps other big insurers, probably a continuation of PPO’s coming on board too.
New markets, Europe through Oryzon in early 2014, Asia also, perhaps insurer agreements here too.
New products, Cxbladder (triage) scheduled to be ready in Q2, and Cxbladder (predict) in Q4.
There’s the $20.5M cash injection, sales team increasing from 4 to 20, initiating the 19 US sales territories.
Several US user programmes now complete should turn into ongoing orders, and the insurers may probably start demanding the anticipated clinical and economic benefits by prodding GP’s and urologists.
Hopefully some progress on the product pipeline, and that Queensland user programme to assess cxbladder as a replacement for ultrasound in a clinical setting.
A busy enough year ahead for PEB and investors both!
does anyone know what date we find out how many shares in total we were successful in obtaining in the recent rights issue?
and what date rights become tradable?
......so what has happened to NZ sales?, have they actually had any yet? (cant be many,if any, with total sales per week currently sitting at about $650!)
trading the rights has been and gone, i think we get allocated our shares on the 4th from memory, then you can trade the actual shares, i presume the rights may be removed from DB/ASB automatically but more likely you'll just have to delete them and update your holding with the number you have been granted/obtained
Bumping my own post here, hoping that someone can help.
I know that this publication is very widely read amongst the medical community in NZ, so I think it would be well worthwhile to know whether they are presenting articles on Bladder Cancer and if/how CxBladder is represented there.
Ta
Have now sold all of my PEB, except of course the rights shares.
Whilst there could be a announcement anytime, I suspect as the rights shares are allocated the temptation for profit taking could cause a steady decline in Share Price.
Still a believer and will buy back in. either when the prices has eroded somewhat, or on the back of the next ( positive ) announcement.
Regards.
"Two User Programmes in New Zealand – a combined study of 178 patients with macro-haematuria (blood in urine) has found that Cxbladderdetect outperforms cytology and saw 90% of all tumours. The full results are being prepared for publication."
Due to be published in the new year, March I think.
Carrying free at present but will watch the price
Why flak..... ?
this is a open forum, ( called " Sharetrader " ) my view is that the S/P will weaken from the $1.46 which I got at open this morning. ( ps I sold my other PEB shares in the last couple of weeks ).
But yes a bird in the hand.... describes my strategy very well... also don't forget the millions of PEB shares the Masfens unloaded a couple of months ago... the new owners of them are sitting on over 100% gain.
They may also wish to lock in some of that Landslide profit
Look's like next year will be interesting. What I don't like is having a information vacuum regarding sales and revenue for another six months.
It's hard to make an informed decision to increase my holding unless we regular updates on money coming in and out.
When DD said we want to make sure there is upside for our investors, reporting sales every three months would good upside as far as i'm concerd.
Agree, I’m not sure what PEB’s view might be on quarterly reporting, perhaps something for the next AGM ?.
Like us PEB I think have a challenge in trying to estimate the early part of the curve, it seems to me that it takes a wee kick start of momentum amongst health professionals to really get things moving, but when this type of technology takes, boom, they’ll all want to use it.
The best metric may just remain the rate of PPO, DHB and large insurer sign up announcements for now. There’re are hundreds of insurers in the US and I don’t think we will see them announced, only the big players that are not PPO affiliated, so quarterly reports would provide better information.
Regular updates? They announced a new contract, then they announced another new contract, then they announced first commercial sale, then they announced another new contract. Somewhere in there, I think they also announced a contract with a DHB.
I'd call that pretty regular considering that is all in the past two months.
I would guess the accountant would have to keep up with that sort of stuff anyway(if they are worth their salt)--just be a matter of sharing the info.
Real sales are the missing ingredient now and Im starting to sense that people are starting to get hungry for something they can get their teeth into in that area.
Up till now its been rather Wham-Bam----would anyone really object to slow steady growth?
After all -this is not the latest new electronic craze--things sometimes take time
An extra amount of rigor is required if you are going to disclose to the market, even if unaudited.
I assume they could be more similar to XRO in disclosing the number of tests done (or paying entities in XRO cases) but even XRO doesn't announce this as often as some people would like.
Or at least give us a dictionary with definitions for expressions like 'gangbusters'.
http://blog.xero.com/2013/04/heres-t...und-the-world/
5 months later Xero had a combined 16600 customers in their ROW + USA market. For instance, I would have never guessed that gangbusters = 16600 - total customers in USA - ROW customers that signed up between 23th of April and 30th of September.
The XRO and PEB threads seem attract the same kind of people and some want to draw parallels. I think comparing these two is invalid. There are reasons to scratch your head and wonder if PEB deserves its valuation. But you don't buy anything by more reporting when the company says they don't and won't have much to show for at this stage. I have no reason to doubt that a diagnostic company had $15000 worth of sales in 6 months.
Forgive me ,but Im still a bit confused on these PPO signings--Has the SP gone up 300% because PEB has signed up middle men to promote their product along with all the other products they have on their books--a bit like a mortgage broker?
Are the future sales going to be a result on how good a job these guys do?
Hi Skid, I’ve resolved it this way;
The SP has jumped because it was so absolutely undervalued at 61 cents for all that time, the FedMed announcement wasn’t just a catalyst, but seemed to have initiated the step up toward fundamental value.
The three PPO’s signed up thus far offer a packaged network of healthcare providers including PED to the hundreds of insurers in the US to utilise. As Intel points out each insurer still needs to approve for themselves, although I don’t see this as a hurdle and insurers will progressively come on board over time.
There a also a few large insurers that operate outside the PPO networks as they are big enough to have their own healthcare provider networks, PEB are also targeting these organisations also, and from the capital raising information we know they have some presently under negotiation.
Shareprice getting a beating today, and the new shares arnt available to sell yet.
Yep of the 30 on my nzx watchlist only chorus and moa are up.. lol
My research has shown that the sign ups of these "providers" in reality means little. They are just organisations that provide payment facilities by covering insurers. They sign up anyone and everyone as far as I can see. Look for sign ups from insurers for real promise.
It does show you how utterly wasteful the US health system is though. You have all these middle men before you get to the actual healthcare, payment providers, insurers... All in the name of "efficiency" but it seems more like they are all making a healthy profit along the way... No wonder Obama wants to dismantle it, it's a mess that looks after execs and accountants, not aimed at looking after patients.
Just like any other stock Snapiti. e.g if there is terrorist attack, airport and airline shares are affected. this is one stock in NZX will mimic xero.
Couldn’t disagree more, if you go back on the thread a few months you will find most long term holders regarded PEB as grossly undervalued, someone described it as a coiled spring waiting and ready for someone to tickle a hair trigger, as it turned out that someone was FedMed.
We should expect sales growth to accrue at a rate commensurate with the strategic commercial plan PEB have provided us with, it’s a five year plan and they tell us it will take that long to get the existing lab up to 4000 tests per year, $100M in revenues and 10% of market share.
My FA provides me with a valuation range, for the US cxbladder revenue stream only, of $1.40 through $2.30, based on a goal range of six months late through one year early.
I’m looking forward to the new year to perhaps receive a little more information from PEB on the Europe and Asia markets and revenue streams, it would be nice to include those in assessing valuations.
Biotechs have an average sales multiple of 6x.
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~%20adamo...le/psdata.html
Current PEB market cap is roughly 4x of sales 5 years out. I can't see any discount at these levels.
That’s interesting Casino thanks for that, there are a couple of things to consider, sectors evaluations include a range of companies not just growth stocks like PEB but mature biotech’s too, also you can't really compare market caps vs sales and achieve a meaningful outcome as growth companies are discounted to different extents representatively for unique risks.
Have a go at a DCF on that revenue stream, let us know how you get on.
Just heard CxBladder advert on radio for first time an hour or so ago.
Goes along lines of 'Bladder cancer is more common than people think - 1 in 4. Blood in urine is a common symptom and now with one simple test etc .'
Good to see the publicity now cranking up.
4-6x multiples are really really generous. My alarm bells go off when people throw around 10x multiples let alone 100X multiples. Here's a link that I a had already posted on the XRO thread but I see no harm in posting/reading it twice: http://abovethecrowd.com/2011/05/24/...-revenue-club/
Are there additional blue skies that we can secretly hope for? I believe so. That's why I hold despite feeling that it has gone up too quick for the wrong reasons (I have reduced recently). Here is how I roughly estimate sales to build up:
Nov 2014: 1M or less
Nov 2015: 5M or less
Nov 2016: 15M or less
Nov 2017: 50M and cashflow positive
Nov 2018: 100M
All of this assumes CMS coverage, which is likely but not certain. I find it impossible to estimate how roll-out of the other Cx products will impact on cashflows. Any thoughts are appreciated.
I'm in PEB for the long term Snapiti, what traders do in the short term really concerns me not, I perform FA based on company released objectives and associated revenue targets, it serves me well, and you're welcome to disagree.
Growths stocks often have leaps and jumps as risk falls away allowing them to approach ever closer to fundamental value, and PEB has de-risked an enormous amount over the last year.
I can understand how some would see a big SP jump in isolation as exceptional, but equally this stock has enormous potential for an NZX listed company and I would not be at all surprised to see PEB as a $5 stock in a just a few years time.
Jump in and out as you may please, I see more risk in doing that than just holding and keeping PEB in the bottom draw, each to their own.
Traders add noise to the discussions, and liquidity.
But as I have written before, they buy at 52c and flick out at 57c, $1.25 and flick out at $1.35, believe they are doing very well and I say, good on them.
What they miss out of course is the real movement from 52c to $1.35.
And so on and so forth.
Next major announcement will take the stock to $2.00 so let the traders talk the stock down in the meantime.
The likelihood is that the next major announcement will be before Christmas - based upon logic and historical observations.
My estimates are based on these here:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-walls/4/71a/500
You could be right Casino. But then again Harbour could also be right. It will certainly be interesting.
http://www.harbourasset.co.nz/wp-con...ry-website.pdf
No worries. Has anyone read/access to the articles listed here, particularly 'coding for utility'?
http://www.biocentury.com/products/certndx
found it and it's very informative! Looks like you could have made a lot of money with dodgy science in the past. Now, medicare contractors (MAC) are given some discretion and only the robust stuff gets through.
http://media.drugwonks.com/media/att...pdf?1374059870
Interesting excerpts:
According to Cassigneul, the CGS medical director informed Predictive that to receive coverage the company “would
have to do a randomized prospective clinical
utility study which would have to be
published in the NEJM or JAMA, and the
test should be written into the clinical
guidelines” for the MAC to consider coverage.
Cassigneul said it would take 18-24
months to complete such a story, several
months to get it published, and the wait
could be further extended for an unpredictable
period because clinical guidelines
are updated every three to five years.
Even if Predictive invested the resources
to produce the requested data,
there is no assurance that the goalposts
will remain fixed, according to Cassigneul.
Moreover, he added, if Predictive managed
to secure coverage, Medicare reimbursement
would not increase to compensate
for the cost of the trials, and
would not reflect either its medical value
or the expense required to demonstrate
its utility.
...
CGS declined to discuss its coverage
decision for CertNDx, but spokesperson
Adam Myrick suggested the Medicare contractor
doesn’t agree with Cassigneul’s
characterization of the requirements for
coverage.
“We don’t recommend or require studies
or clinical trials as a means of providing
evidence of clinical utility,” said Myrick.
He added: “The process for determining
coverage is fluid. If more evidence is
made available or developed, then we’ll
review and reassess.”
Myrick noted the non-coverage decision
was made possible by the new coding
system. “No specific codes for molecular
pathology existed prior to Jan. 1, 2013.
Now each test has been assigned a code.
Each code is priced and coverage decisions
are made test by test,” he said.
...
To obtain coverage under MolDx, the
applicant “has to show that [the test] in
fact makes a difference, that it improves
patient outcomes and/or changes physician
behavior for the management of the
patient,” Jeter told BioCentury.
Palmetto only accepts data from peerreviewed,
published studies.
Palmetto’s preference is for “at least
two well-controlled and designed studies,”
Jeter said. “They don’t have to be
randomized controlled trials. They could
be cohort, observational or case controlled
studies.”
Retrospective studies are acceptable,
she added.
Jeter obtains technology assessments
from subject matter experts at universities
and in industry.
Same story in Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgot...l-the-effects/
Oh, sounds like you've learnt the hard way too Snapiti? I really know your words (above) are the truth. Don't want to divert the thread (but it is before breakfast I guess...) but in one personal experience my lawyer was openly discussing with my opposition's lawyer (right in front of me!!) who was going to win and who was going to make the most fees between the two of them. They're a special breed ... sorry, I'm outta here...NOW!!!
I'm just relieved to see that they go case by case and that there is some flexibility so good products go through. I think there is little risk for a doctor to order in a non-invasive lab test. Look at how many lab test were used under the old rules, which had basically no clinical utility. The certndx story is a very fishy example and shows that you need a moat against such entrants.
Has any one been advised on how many extra shares they picked up in the rights issue ??
Cheers
[QUOTE=barney;446833]You could be right Casino. But then again Harbour could also be right. It will certainly be interesting.
http://www.harbourasset.co.nz/wp-con...ry-website.pdf [/QUOTE]
Crumbs if PEB were to achieve 80% gross margins on that, all that free cash might just clear the product pipeline and suck the University of Otago dry of ideas.
Hey guys, when do we get our rights loaded to our portfolio? Cheers!
The over subscription was scaled back to 11% I think, if any were going to sell their original entitlement shares they would have probably just sold those rights a couple of weeks back.
Is today the day that PEB investors get their $8.4M in unallocated cash returned to them to play with or is that tomorrow ?
For anyone else whose with asb, it gets loaded on the 8th of December.