As I've said before I've got an old bike frame they can have, going cheap cheap chippity cheap cheap.
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As I've said before I've got an old bike frame they can have, going cheap cheap chippity cheap cheap.
How much money did they spend on promoting the IPO? Wouldnt get much change from $1 million?
Yup your right and all this does is scare away genuine first time would be investors
When will this share reach the price it deserves?
when the directors develop a brain or a fair valuation whichever is first i presume
when current shareholders are smart enough to sell down..down, down, down down...
They will find it hard to raise anymore capital, especially so at around 10 cents.
Here's a newbie question:
Are there no rules on the NZX revolving around honesty to shareholders. My angle here is that everyone could clearly see the $60M valuation done by the BFW team was an order of magnitude out, yet they still went ahead. Anyone?
Johnny5
The market sets the valuation, not the NZX.
If the directors had a questionable record then the NZX would have not allowed them to list. Example, Bridgecorp tried and failed several times to list on the NZX.
As for the BFW float valuation, 20 cps would have been a more reasonable valuation to list at. The market thought as much, hence the float was a massive failure and the management had to cough up to make it work.
Who said it is working ?
I suppose a measure of success is the fact that I can visit www.nzx.com, type in BFW and see that they are indeed listed.
RELINT: BFW: Disclosure of Directors and Officers Relevant Interests
Emm, directors selling down stock within 12 months of a new listing. Its not a good look.
If this stock was more liquid then one would be led to believe that the diretors 'sell down' would be some what larger.
The question is who is stupid enugh to buy it? There's another 22 million shares if anyone wants it... LOL
Dude,
I suggest you read the disclosure doc's a bit more closely!
Both of the two Directors noted are actually the key s/holders (via various trusts etc). Hence the transactions are just moving the chairs around on the deck, including some "gifting". I think from memory the owners also put in place a lockout out period of at least 12 months for selling any shares.
Admitedly these NZX disclosure doc's are a nightmare to read at times!
You're generous the only reason it hasn't fallen further is a lot of the numpties who bought are hoping like hell they can get it back to a dollar or they would all be out on a stop loss don't get knocked over as they all shuffle out of the cellar door.
I dont know how many investors are people who often buy their burgers. But as the trend is likely to continue many will feel duped and stop going to burger fuel as a protest.
I would be very surprised if any one of the sharetrafers here own this stock. If they do i believe that they would be too embaressed to admit it.
Make that 9c the company through its deal with Yellow Fever (Wellington Phoenix supporters) provides for free chips on any burger purchased!
And..to add to that its on Courtney Place directly across the road from the Electric Avenue Bar (another Yellow Fever/Wellington Phoenix sponsor/supporter).
The Phoenix are playing tonight & after a few brews at the Backbencher the fans will likely follow the team to the Bar afterwards.
Now free chips doesnt sound like much, but i would have thought the fast food industry's margins werent that large to accommodate that in the first place!
Pity we cant short this stock!
Meanwhile Mr Chips is selling and can not make enough to keep up with demand why would you want to give them away.. ??
Nita:
I dont know how many investors are people who often buy their burgers. But as the trend is likely to continue many will feel duped and stop going to burger fuel as a protest.
I would be very surprised if any one of the sharetrafers here own this stock. If they do i believe that they would be too embaressed to admit it.
I think someone mentioned this before IPO and perhaps we didn't think seriously enough about it but the inexperienced investor who now won't buy burgers as a result of poor share performance, creating a vicious cycle could be a major influence. Runing into the second point, there probably aren't too many experenced investors on the register so the number of 1000 share holding customers could be significant. Pity really I honestly would have bought in to BFW if it had floated at a realistic price.
In another life I worked in the bar/restaurant game and there certainly is excellent margin in the fries and drinks (although Burgerfuel tend to use bottled drinks so less margin than McD's postmix cups). That's why it makes no sense to give the fries away: you're giving away your major producer of gross profit. I'd say they make reasonable GP on the burgers but the labour costs are much higher so if they're giving away free fries they had better be selling a shtruckload of burgers.
The whole issue was a joke. NZX should never have allowed such a high listing price- it leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouth.
haw haw haw!
Quote:
The directors of BurgerFuel Worldwide Limited (BFW) today reported an un-audited loss of $1.35 million for the three-and-a-half month period to 30 September 2007, of which $991,000 represented costs associated with the company's Initial Public Offering (IPO).
..
hey say continued losses of $50,000 per month are anticipated, but expect these will progressively reduce as additional stores are opened.
What a joke. Like to know what the costs were. Costs to advertise their own company for sale.
Stand well clear. No wonder the IPO failed.... No transperency as I pointed out ages ago.
Cost $1 million to do an IPO?? WOW! That is staggering for a firm that size. Oh well, at least the CEO didnt spend all the funds on a ferrari or call girls on his boat. LOL
Those floatation costs would have been half acceptable if it had raised the full 15 million...but given it didnt even reach the 8 million (around 5.75mill to my memory?) represents a very high floatation cost %.
0.991/5.75 = 17%...thats crazy...
Any sp/market cap predictions by this time next year?
Ed. Did reach 8 million but 5.75 was from public and other from founders... still about 12.4% costs.
It shows that they were willing to sell off their shares at any cost to the company
the only reason the directors bought into the float was to get the dog to market, the IPO costs should have been worn by the founders not the suckers that bought in, this was just a good way for these guys to exit in the future thanks to the public who gave them all the $ they required to keep building this firm. I would be peaved if i got invited as a VIB member or what ever they called it to fork out my hard earned cash at $1 a share only to loose 40% within a short period of time.
Can not believe they were trying to value this firm at $60 million given the fact they owned one possibly two stores outright and clipped the ticket on all the buns and mayo that went through head office.
Good luck to ya flame grilled money getting chargrilled by the owners.
PS: their burgers are yummy
How come Below 42 (ftb) managed to value their company at $50 million and got the IPO off the ground while these guys couldnt? Both IPO was way over valued.
I can't believe that the costs of the IPO have been worn by the new shareholders - does any one know the legalities of this.....
Valuations are pretty damn subjective, as Snoopy and Grant Samuel will tell you.
Different people. Different market. Different time. Different context.
In fact, Dr. Who, the hog would be interested in what the two companies had in common (realistically-speaking) - can't see much myself.
So there would be nothing stopping them spending half the money that they want to raise in promoting their company so they can in effect pocket the rest for their current shares ie I want to raise 30 million in an IPO of a company I value at 60 million and 100% own. I will spend a fortune promoting it and then pocket the remainder when I sell down the shares.
Buyer beware I say....
Based on the above comments the time is almost here for me to put together my new business plan for a chain of fish and chip shops.
Who wants to be a director.
And i'll need an accountant, lawyer, IPO manager, kitchen cooks, someone who knows about leasing property, someone to select the music for our state of the art sound systems and a whole lot of beautiful girls.
Target market for IPO. Well Burger Fuel took out the students so I'm going to aim for the beneficiaries market.
Names..... emm, what about 'Something fishy'.
Both were listed on the NZX. Both are NZ companies. Both have a "brand component".
Come on - these are pretty shallow comparisons. FTB and BF are quite different. One is a brand, the other is a branded franchise. Different people. Different time.
Xero didn't go through any PE stage, is not currently making a profit and some say overvalued at IPO. Xero as a company has bugger all in common with either BF or FTB.
Also, who said that companies should go through any prescribed stages before listing anyway?
Private equity generally get involved in turnarounds, restructuring, rebranding and so-forth. If there is any "usual" path to listing it would be founders > angel investment > venture capital > listing. To suggest that high-risk businesses should go through a private equity stage before listing is demonstrating that you don't know what you're talking about.
I wanted to open a load of cheap open all hours curry houses like they have in Bradford it would be a hit, have ya tried to get a curry in NZ after midnight,no chance they are either making too much money or Kiwis are still having their palates fire proofed, personally I moved off meat an two veg years ago I went travelling.Anyone want to back me maybe I should ring the NZX or BFW and ask them if they want to help.
There is definately a market here in NZ for that now. One of the local Indians has opened up several Indian takeaways in the food courts around Tauranga and by the looks of things makes loads of cash.
I'm not too sure who you would use for the advertising though as its not really the style for second rate x All Blacks or League players. Then again, maybe Brent Todd would fit the bill..... a curry on the run.
Both are high risk = yes
PE = No, HOG explained
Profit = BF no, FTB could have made profit but opted for further growth.
IPO = BF yes, FTB = no, as the shareprice almost doubled after IPO, and was subsquently a takeover which gave the shareholders at thirty something % premium to previous days close, and an annualised return of something pretty tasty aswell.
I had bought in 2 weeks before takeover...but took a long time before the monies was paid out :(
THE NICKY WATSON AWARD FOR OVER-INFLATED ASSETS
Burger Fuel, which spent more than $1 million promoting a float - including a slick media campaign aimed at its customers. Its listing price of $1 valued the company at $53 million - a figure which drew a great deal of scepticism from brokers and media. Its shares closed yesterday at 58c. Would you like to downsize that order, sir?
:D
I would say this one has had its chips.
Well done upside whatever - 42 below was in a slightly more attractive sector I think - this stock is a dud
Investors would have fared better if they'd pooled their funds and bought MacDonald's franchises. Burger Fuel are nice "sometimes", "pricey", but hardly a mainstream household name or an embedded component of NZ culture like MD's.
One Burger Fuel shop flame-grilled
Damage to the ground floor tenants Burger Fuel and Cubita cafe, was extensive
Bad news as they will miss out on the large Courtney Place crowds for New Years eve...
The burgers are so expensive
How can they not make a profit?
Down to 42 cents today:eek:
I love that quote from Brook, essentially explaining how "lack of supply drives down prices". How could anyone buy shares in a company with a chairman who comes out with that?
At least it explains the business strategy of opening lots of new burger stores.... as an increase in supply will drive up prices :p
I noticed on findata they now have options exercisable at $1.00 2009 Feb. Who wants to be the first to pass the parcel?:D
A raging uptrend!!Up another 10% today!! This must be the buy of the year!!
Oh wait, still down 45% for the year.
This stock was a crap IPO and we all knew it...
how about change name to 'burger mule'....
:cool:
.^sc
Passed BurgerFuel New Lynn this afternoon at about 1.15pm. I would have thought a prime selling time. Plenty of traffic and people about.
Number of customers..........0.
Ditto Lower Hutt when ever i drive past it max customers seem to be about 3 or nil.Must try one someday.:eek:
I think their main selling time is dinner time til after pub and club closing time,so you are probably seeing them at their quietest time.
Have had them numerous times and the burgers are real good,go for the bastard burger with wedges yum. Pricey but worth it,considering what you would pay in a restaurant for a full meal,these fill you up,and if you don't believe me try going through two burgers.
It's a niche market,the punters whom buy their products would be employed,not housewives,(not that housewives aren't employed)but I suppose they must pick up enough trade over the quiet period to justify being open,or I guess they wouldn't be.
But yes the ideal would be to have a more even flow of customers through the day.
Not a shareholder,as they would have to be the Michael Hill of fast food for that to happen.
Burger Fuel seems to be an attempt to cater for the younger market, instead of say Burger Wisconsin, whose target market is more the family orientated/gourmet burger range.
I wonder how the new McDonald's "make fresh" campaign is hurting them?
I also see Burger King has a new range of cheaper burgers/combos.
Burger Fuel was a good idea, although IMO not a sound business one.
Perhaps the owners saw the Hell's Pizza franchises sold off to a bigger competitor & hoped for the same?
Am waiting for the rights issue @ 25c (with free burger voucher :D)
Disc: Never touched BFW
World Domination here they come.........................
BurgerFuel signs deal to enter Dubai
New 5:58PM Monday May 05, 2008
Fast food company BurgerFuel has signed a deal expanding its franchise into Dubai.
It is the first master franchise agreement signed by BurgerFuel Worldwide, and will see the company's gourmet burgers on sale in the Arab Emirates state before the end of the year.
The company says it chose Dubai for its first store outside Australasia because of the city's rapid economic development and high profile.
The first BurgerFuel store will open in Dubai's 1,300-acre Festival City, one of the region's top retail destinations.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/...ectid=10508075
good on them for giving it a go. I was one of the first to slag this company and i will be one of the first if they can turn this lemon into an international successful fast food outlet
How much cash do they have left in the accounts? Wont be cheap going global. Not many NZ firms can make it globally without burning cash like wild fire. One would have thought they would concentrate on putting together a good foundation in NZ and Aussie before venturing off into the woods.
A few trips to Dubai coming up that will burn a bit of cash...
Looking forward to the Camel-Flavoured Pork pie they are going to introduce in Dubai.
Has the Wellington store re-opened following the fire?
BFW
09/10/2008
DIRECTOR
REL: 0910 HRS Burger Fuel Worldwide Limited
DIRECTOR: BFW: Burger Veteran Joins BurgerFuel Worldwide
With the appointment of its new director, Alan Dunn, BurgerFuel Worldwide
will access his 30 plus years of international and Australasian business
experience with the global food giant, McDonalds.
Starting at age 25 his career spanned every facet of the business until his
retirement from McDonalds in March last year. He helped found the company's
New Zealand operations and held the role of McDonald's Chairman and Chief
Executive Officer here from 1993 to 2004.
Following this he transferred overseas as Vice President Operations at the
company's head office in Chicago and subsequently held the position of
Regional Vice President and Managing Director, Nordic Region, with
responsibility for around 500 McDonalds restaurants across Sweden, Finland,
Iceland, Denmark and Norway.
Alan Dunn says he is excited by the potential he sees in BurgerFuel and the
opportunities and challenges it faces in the global gourmet burger market.
"This is about the opportunity to help internationalise a successful kiwi
hamburger brand, which in my view has the potential to be a global success.
I'm looking forward to making a contribution from my many years of hands-on
experience with the practical and strategic demands of growing an
international fast-food brand."
Chairman of the NZAX-listed gourmet burger chain, Peter Brook, says that Alan
Dunn will bring a wide range of international skills to the business at a
time when the company is beginning its international expansion programme,
with the first BurgerFuel outlet planned for Dubai and further expansion
anticipated in the GCC region.
"It is particularly exciting when a person of his experience identifies the
global potential and uniqueness of BurgerFuel and endorses it by committing
to the challenges required for us to scale-up our operations and take our
concept to the world."
Peter Brook says that in addition to his strategic and governance skills,
Alan Dunn will work closely with BurgerFuel's CEO Chris Mason and executive
director Josef Roberts, in areas such as international franchising, operating
systems, supply chain management and the refining of store formats for
international roll-out.
Chris Mason, Burger Fuel's CEO says "after 13 years at the coal face of this
challenging industry it is amazing to have a man like Al on board. He knows
what it takes to build a global company and has an eye for the details like
consistency, robust systems, and the foresight to meet ever changing customer
needs and expectations. Al believes in BurgerFuel and what it stands for,
along with our ability to be a leader in the industry both nationally and
internationally, which is a significant statement from a man with such
enormous knowledge in this business"
Josef Roberts says that he is enjoying working with Al "He's a great guy with
a personality that fits our brand, our board and our team which are essential
criteria. We are really delighted to have him join us".
BurgerFuel now has 25 stores operating in New Zealand, as well as two in
Sydney. It recently launched its new flagship store on the lakefront in Taupo
and has also just opened in Johnsonville. More stores are due to open in the
coming months, including Windsor Park in Auckland.
For further information:
Josef Roberts
Executive Director
Burger Fuel Limited
P O Box 14 7320
Ponsonby
Auckland
New Zealand
T: +64 9 376 6007
F: +64 9 376 6026
M: +64 21 444 786
www.burgerfuel.com
End CA:00171247 For:BFW Type:DIRECTOR Time:2008-10-09:09:10:35
Stores in Dubai due to open by the end of the year.
Launching pad for the rest of the World perhaps :rolleyes:
I wonder how you say Ring Burner, Bastard Burger or Slick Chick in Arabic
The Buzzard Bourghinis should be popular though :D
Why would you buy a whole lot of cultural food issues in the current climate ! Halal burgers ?
BFW
02/04/2009
GENERAL
REL: 1700 HRS Burger Fuel Worldwide Limited
GENERAL: BFW: BFW - BurgerFuel puts pipeline into Saudi Arabia & Bahrain
BurgerFuel has announced today that it has signed its second international
master licensing agreement outside of Australasia, in the Middle East. The
deal is for the two countries of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
The agreement has been signed with the Abdulla Fouad Group, a major Saudi
Arabian corporation, based in the eastern province of Dammam, in the Kingdom
of Saudi Arabia.
BurgerFuel Chairman Peter Brook said that the deal is significant for
BurgerFuel for many reasons, but especially because of the high reputation of
the corporation and its founder.
"The Abdulla Fouad Group is ranked within the top 100 companies in Saudi
Arabia. The company has major connections and it holds the agencies for many
large international brands in Saudi. They also have diverse interests in real
estate, oil, telecommunications and numerous other industries. They are well
respected as one of the most prominent families in the eastern province of
Saudi Arabia" says Mr. Brook.
The deal will involve the construction of BurgerFuel stores in Saudi Arabia
and Bahrain. The outlets will be operated under master license to BurgerFuel
Worldwide (BFW) the NZAX listed company. As master franchisee Abdulla Fouad
Group will fully fund store construction and operational costs. Through its
licensing agreement BFW will support the brand and earn up-front territory
fees and on-going royalties based on store turnover.
BurgerFuel Executive Director Josef Roberts said that a strong relationship
had been formed with the principals of the Abdulla Fouad Group. "There is a
lot of respect both ways for making this deal work and we think if we get
this right, we will have a strong partner that could lead to other
opportunities". He said that "Saudi should be a good market for BurgerFuel -
it has a population of around 28 million, with a large majority of young
people, who want western concepts. Convenience food has become a large part
of their culture".
BurgerFuel is currently working to establish itself in Dubai and within the
UAE and signing the additional neighbouring countries of Saudi Arabia and
Bahrain "will add economies of scale to its expansion within the Middle East"
says Roberts.
"Its hard work in every country right now, but things are happening and we
just have to keep focused and stick to our objectives. In the end we are not
in luxury goods, consumer goods, property or cars - we are in food - well
priced, high quality food and people have to eat every day. If we can get
some runs on the board in this market, then in my view we have every chance
of one day reaching our goals of becoming a global brand" says Roberts.
BurgerFuel has 26 outlets in NZ and 2 in Australia. It is due to open its
first outlet in Dubai this year under a master license agreement with the
Alphamed Group. Roberts said that "they have had difficulty finding quality
locations in Dubai and have not been prepared to compromise." He said that
"real estate in Dubai is now freeing up and becoming far more realistic on
rental price" but that in Saudi "their partners owned the shopping mall where
the first site has already been selected." He said that the first Saudi
outlet would open this year.
Contact
Josef Roberts
Executive Director
021 444786
BFW Spread up 50%.
4736 0.45 0.6 1000
1650 0.32 0.65 2520
Obviously the liquidity is very very small, but this price shift is very bullish from 6 months ago when the spread was more like:
10,000 0.12 0.32 50000
An announcement about Dubai developments coming soon maybe.
BURGERFUEL STRIKES OIL IN SAUDI ARABIA!!!
https://www.i-search.nzx.com/blobs/N...BFW-114021.pdf
Haha great title :)
Can't fault the guys at the company for getting on with the job despite a lot of negativity.
Good on them.
Let's hope they succeed.
Tried one of their burger combo recently and thought they deserve to succeed - quality and quantity, great taste as well.
[ried one of their burger combo recently and thought they deserve to succeed - quality and quantity, great taste as well.[/QUOTE]
Balance.
This must truely add new meaning to a gut feeling for a share.
follow your guts.
Currently no sellers!
8000 0.42
1000 0.41
5000 0.41
1200 0.38
2000 0.3
2000 0.21
All buyers on the orderbook.
Missed this article from May 3rd, but thought I would post it up:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/smal...r-Kiwi-burgers
Not sure if many people follow BFW, but this is both positive and negative. First they potentially don't have enough cash to pay directors etc, but the positive is that directors are buying shares at these levels, albeit indirectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Announcement
If we don't see any director & officer relevant interest notices of them selling as they are required to do, this becomes a more positive sign, along with Dubai, which looks to be developing well.
http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZAX/BFW/...losure-Notices
Very positive, all director/ officer notices filed , with directors now holding gold size parcels. With 5 store now in the middle east, this is starting to look better in terms of risk/ reward.
Burger Fuel invades Iraq?
I get that using this as the title of todays press release is an attempt at humour, but....really?
What is next, a promotion where they drop halal burgers at sea?
Saw this yesterday, they (Carls Jr) look to be targeting the same market as burger fuel. US based company, expanding into the Middle East and are looking at putting 50 stores (franchises) throughout NZ over the next 10 years.
http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/big-...-4309748/video
From what I have heard, Carl Jrs are targeting the McDonalds/burger King market, not the more upmarket Burgerfuel market. Burger Fuel should be more concerned with Burger Wisconsin which are on a par and are apparently looking for new franchises. I dont think they have the same profile as BF though.
Arguablely they are the same market but Burger Fule tries to distinguish itself to gain the hgher price point.
I dont really see Carl Jrs taking off. It is interesting where their first store is - not suprising that they target that demographic considering the burgers are meant to be high in fat and salt.
The difference in taste, flavour & size versus price is huge, a lot of burgerfuel burgers are just under $10, where majority of burger wis is over $10. If I compare ring burner at 9.5 versus a mcdonalds angus at 7.5 no contest, easily pay the extra $2. Although burger wis garlic mayo vs burgerfuel aioli, burger wis everytime! ;)
On fundamentals Burgerfuel NZ store sales are 27m vs middle east at 4m to full year March, with only 2 stores. With 7 new stores planned by March 2012, Middle East sales could hit 20m.
If you look at the royaties and franchise revenues driven by Middle East over NZ, this is where the profits lie. They made about 1m of revenue from 2 stores, out of their 8m, so if they have 9 by March 2012 could be 4.5m, so almost a third of revenue, if they hit about 15m.
The didn't put too much detail around their expenses side in their results, will be interesting to look at Annual report, have not seen it yet. Overall a checkered listing history with an illiquid shareholder base, and a high risk/ reward future.
Burgerfuel into Libya. Interesting