Sounds like a good plan but would mean that they would have little chance of getting in Jamie Whyte, the Party President.
Or will National take back Epsom but hand over Southland?
Printable View
On the back of this good news too. Primary sector exports at record levels
NZ is really humming right now, that's for sure. Don Nicolson could do well down there, interesting!!!
Hey Cuzzie - why not just lynch him? You seem to be the right man to do the job!
Seriously - why are you so full of hate? Or are you just full of fear he could uncover still more embarrassing actions of NZ authorities and / or government?
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Lynch him - not a problem, I'll do the job.
Seriously why am I so full of hate - Why wouldn't you be!!! No fear, just what he has done to NZ politics. Think about it, are you happy Fats is on your side? You can't buy everything if you're super rich, unless you have votes Labour need. Labour will sell their soul, their sons & daughters, sell what the poor want to hear, sell anything to get into power and you and me, the taxpayers, will fund it for them.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? He has already been found guilty multiple times. Feed him to the yanks and get him out of our lives. As much as I don't think David Cunliffe is not the right man for the job, I do feel sorry for him and Labour. Just look who he needs to get into bed with. Once Fats gets in there is not much room for anybody else, problem is he[David Cunliffe] has many bed mates - too many - far too many. He doesn't want to, but knows he must.
So given that, my question to you B.P is, 'are you happy with what Fats brings to the left'?
J.K does not have to shear his bed & I'm happy about that, you B.P?:)
I see John Key is contemplating sacrificing one of his loyal MPs to accommodate the Conservative Party.
Belg
Do you remember that the leader of the Conservative Party apparently refused to discount the possibility that vapour trails from jets may contain chemicals to subdue the masses. Perhaps as part of the National Party/ Conservative Party support agreement we shall see the following
1. National agrees that a bill will be introduced to declare that the earth is flat, and that the moon landing in 1969 never happened.
2 National agrees to reintroduce slavery as its abolition in England in 1833 has lead to the current nanny state with far too many people on benefits.
3. National agrees that chemical additives to vapour trails will only be used when Aircraft are flying over Labour electorates.
4 .National agrees to set up a special Police Unit who will be tasked with identifying and prosecuting Witches
Hi Cuzzie,
I don't think that I can speak for the left - I voted in my life much more often for parties like National and ACT (and Liberals), than I did for Green (however the current bunch of Greenies is too left wing for my taste). Never ever in my life did I vote for Labour or any other left wing party.
As well - I don't particularly like DotCom, and if anybody would have asked me at the time he applied for permanent residency (for some funny reason nobody did), I would have recommended to keep him out of the country.
However - I understand that he openly disclosed his criminal history, and NZ Immigration put his money over the character requirements and granted him permanent residency. I think that a country needs to stand to its word as well I would expect a (wo-)man to (except if they are so called "honourables", of course).
See - we (NZ) gave DotCom permanent residency, and it doesn't matter whether the two of us like this decision - and I think it would be unacceptable to break our (New Zealand's) promise to him, unless it is proven that he broke the law again AFTER him being granted residency. Allegations from quite self-serving companies (entertainment industry) and governments formed by so called "honourables" are certainly not enough in my view to convict anybody without judge or jury.
As well - if he did anything wrong, than he should be put to court either here in New Zealand (his place of residency) or in Germany (his home country). I don't see any acceptable cause to hand him over to a corrupt justice system like the US system is, just because they feel it is easier to prosecute somebody from a third world country like NZ than one of their own DotCom's.
Now - how do you hold it with your and your countries honour? If you don't care, than just keep lynching people ....
B.P
Dot.Com has broken laws that have probable international covariance. That's what is getting sorted out now though our court system & that's why he is still here. Interesting enough, it's the U.N which has has much to do with such laws and it would be fitting that he falls under their governance. NZ, being a first world country holds treaties with other first world countries. More than likely the ruling will come under a treaty that we have with the USA rather than a U.N protocol. There are few borders with piracy, nor should there be. There is in Russia though, just look at the GameOver Zeus Malware Bug. Another Dot.Com but a way bigger rip off merchant. Check that out here, unbelievable story for sure.
Our countries honour is to honour international laws and hand him over. Don't forget even China is having a go at Dot.Com too. Hong Kong Customs froze more than 300 million Hong Kong dollars (US$39 million) in assets belonging to the Megaupload - that's China of all counties. Maybe they didn't like the competition.
He has made money that was other peoples work whether it be music or film. My wifes cousin has an incredible library of CD's and DVD's all downloaded from Megaupload, all done for pennies - that's not right. I have a much smaller library and I have paid the full whack.
The FBI seeks extradition of internet 'pirate' Kim Dot.Com and the chargers are racketeering and money laundering. The yanks take this stuff very seriously, make no bones about it and they will get their man. The extradition trial is set down for next month, needless to say that it should be interesting.
B.P, it's not over till the Fat Man sings & if I was a betting man I'll say he will be singing, "I fought the Law & the Law won", in the very near future.
LOL - who is feeding you with this BS (international covariance ...) - or did you make the story up yourself? I understand that there is an allegation that he knowingly benefited (and potentially encouraged) IP violations while running Megaupload. I don't condone this (if it is true - and agreed, it might be true), but than - there are millions of people around the globe who are doing the same thing. Doesn't make it right, but you wonder, why it makes DotCom to the villain number 1?
As well - if your wife's cousin is breaking the law - why does this mean that we need to lynch DotCom (obviously unless DotCom is your wife's cousin ... but even than I wouldn't condone lynch justice)?
Can't see any reference in the link you published to DotCom - why do you think it is material to this discussion?
Again - I don't want to stand here defending DotCom (there are other people being paid for doing this), but I stand for the right of everybody to be treated in a fair and equitable manner. I stand for "innocent until proven guilty" - and I stand for "pacta sunt servanda" (i.e. agreements must be kept). No matter whether the accused is called DotCom or Cuzzie or any other name.
What do you stand for - Cuzzie?
I agree Belg
John Key has had a rather disturbing tendency since the start of his political career of being, shall we say," economical with the truth"
B.P, sorry I didn't realise you had difficulty with words. Let me explain - International means outside N.Z. Covariance in the manner I used it explains at least two dodgy asserts that work side by side. In other words Megauploads music and video ripoffs that work together and is controlled by Dot.Com international. I can't make up words B.P, but I can use them in the manner intended, if you can't understand that then that's your problem, not mine.
Dot.Com is not villian number one, he has been caught breaking copyright laws - Just like a murderer caught in the act . If you think he should get away with copyright infringements that roll into the millions in profit, then maybe you should revisit your line of thinking.
My wifes cousin may or maynot of been breaking the law, Megaupload was for sure. I would say that Megauploads customers have broken laws somewhere. Personally when I first found out about it, I thought it was illegal and stayed well clear.
The link to the GameOver Zeus Malware Bug was used in reference to my comments on Dot.Com, please read thoroughly before complaining next time.
Your thoughts towards innocent until proven guilty are fair and just. They are your thoughts, not everybody's. I stand for no nonsense or do gooders interfering with justice. In Dot.Coms case, he has not got a leg to stand on. Hollywoods best lawyers are gunning for him & they will not fail. He has broken the law, clear as the water out of a tap. In Dot.Coms case he is guilty and will be proven so.
Yeah Cunliffe isn't creepy at all. No.
Attachment 5931
You want to hear creepy, then like Rodney Hide said.
When it comes to politics clearly I always wear the blue coat, however belg, EZ and if there is any other left wingers in Share Trader land (is there?) I do not do it by default - I have standards - mainly just for me to uphold foremost. If National breech what I foresee as my standards, I have no problem in voicing those. Here is my breech, yep you guessed it - the friging U.N. What the hell is National trying to do here? This is far left wing s**t & National has no place in romancing such a fastercil as the U.N are. This article in the NZ Herald pissers me off no end. Leave that NWO s**t to the far left & get on with running the country.
This is Helen Clarks baby, why is National even going there? I'm not far from center, but maybe I've just been pushed that way!!! Nah, bugger that, come on Key, it's just freaky flucking around with Clark's heros. Drop it like a lead footy ball and move on.
Lucifer Publishing renamed the Lucis Trust is the start, runnings and up to date of the U.N westerly, that should put fear into you by itself. The link is: Helen Clarke's homome's Please do feel free to indulge us why the U.N, Helen Clarks U.N is not left wing. You said it now prove it. Stone a Crow, this would get Helen steaming: Throw rocks at those queers. The world has had enough of this pc B.S from the left, Go hard out the tea party, they would get my vote if I lived in the US.
Meanwhile on the front page of the Herald today: Under fire donor gave to Labour too. Funny how when asked about this, every single Labour M.P that was involved with Donghua Liu can't remember. Funny that, real funny. Hypocrisy on steroids from the loonie left again, what else would you expect.
Don't burst a blood vessel belg. I'm laughing at you laughing. How could you get it so wrong? Wait, I think I know, assumptions - somewhat of a tool for the Left. Saying stuff with proof isn't a goal, but could turn into an own goal. Like I said, I'm not far from the center, that's on the right side of the ledger. The center left is not too bad, however Cunliffe's far Left circus of misfits is beyond a joke. So to use your word belg, I think most NZers are Guffaw at the left right now.:D
Google fastercil -you may get a shock. As for the the rubbish put out by bibliotecapleyades whoever they may be, you must be joking?
There is just as many left governments as there are right wing governments amongst the countries who make up the UN membership. Your endorsement of the Tea Party says it all.
westerly
You've got me on a spelling mistake whoop whoop. What are you going to do, write me up a ticket?
If you took time to read the website I gave you westerly, you would find out the The Lucis Trust is the U.N, no joke. Alice Bailey started this particular New Age movement back in 1922 which the U.N is today. I don't know why they call it "New Age" as it is a throwback to pre-modern Europe. It was based on Helena Blavatsky & The Theosophical Society, Google that. Here is a copy & paste from that website: "In an Alice Bailey book called "Education for a New Age"; she suggests that in the new age "World Citizenship should be the goal of the enlightened, with a world federation and a world brain." In other words - a One World Government New World Order." The U.N is part of the NWO & little old Helen Clark could be running the show in a few years. Maybe that's why Key is backing her, you know, keep your enemies close.
Yes, left and right wing Governments are part of the U.N, all first world Govts. are. No right wing leader will ever run the U.N though. Labour and most certainly the Greens have got into bed with the devil, but hey westerly that can't be a bad thing aye, if you think bad is good!!!
Labour could learn a lot from the Tea Party as they mirror what National as done in the last two terms and will carry on with their third term, reduce debt, not create it.
So today's Herald-Digi poll shows only Laila Hairre may coat tail in with Hone from the DotCommunist party. Neither Sykes or Minto would make it. And their support comes from the Greens. Surprise surprise.
Meanwhile National could govern alone according to the poll (this is unlikely in reality) and Winston First doesn't make it.
Interesting. Oh forgot. There is one more minor party to be mentioned, Labour on 30 odd percent :t_up:
No your wrong on this occasion belg, because you are perfectly correct with your call on the SC, they are basically just the news reader. The real power in amongst their ranks and higher above. The top of the triangle one might say. Maybe you slipped towards the center just a bit whilst typing your post.
Just to put that in perspective, I support the National Party who is just right of center and on the odd occasion will venture over to left of center. They are a right of center political party who currently enjoys more than one in every two NZ voters backing them.
You support a left of center party, Labour who have been pulled towards the far left by the Greens, Mana and the Fat man. Peters tries to tug back but there is too much weight in the fat man and can not be budged. Peters has faded and Labour continue their move to the far left. Tell me I'm wrong. These fractured left wing parties can muster up a bit of support here and there, mainly robbing votes from each other.70% of voters won't vote for Labour at this election belg, 70%.Conclusion - I support a right of center political party - National.
belg you support a left wing political party, Labour that's moved from left of center towards the far left.
That been said, I think you are seeing things that are not there.;)
Morning Iceman
Yes I have just finished reading the article on the Poll in the Herald. Yes its great news for National. OR is it?????
Indulge me for a scenario
NEW YEARS DAY 2016
John Key wakes up, I can't wait to go to Hawaii he thinks. It been an " annis horribilis" for the government. He is angry with Treasury, how come their forecasting was so wrong. The chairman of Fonterra warned him in December that the plumeting dairy prices show no sign of recovering, its quite possible by the middle of 2016 hat the payout could be as low as 3.10 per kg milk solid. The banks are not showing any sign of being kind to highly indebted dairy farmers, mortgagee sales are sharply increasing. The residential housing sector has been a disaster zone, with floating rates now at 12.75%, the unhappy land of negative equity has been well and truly reached, especially in Auckland, mortgagee sales are spiking .
He reflects that the signs were ominous even back in mid 2014, the dismemberment of Iraq with the ISIS Sunni rebels entering Bagdhad and the conflict escalating with Iran confronting them destabilised the Middle East had set the ball rolling.
There are also "issues" within the National Party which, he thinks, he can really do without. He is starting to feel somewhat isolated.Some of the younger, ambitious MPs are becoming increasingly restless. They know there is no prospect of a fourth term and are strategically thinking of their own aspirations. Paula Benett and Michael Woodhouse now have established a real powerbase whom younger MPs are attracted to, their rational is that there is absolutely no chance of victory in 2017 and they must think strategically in the long term and what the future may hold.
At home away from politics Bronagh is fed up with a public life"Wouldn't it be great if we lived in London and you were the High Commissioner, after all its about time Lockwood Smith retired". John ponders this, and will revisit it many times as the political and economic enivironment gets increasingly fraught. If Paula wants the top job she can have it ,he resolves I have secured my legacy
Can I just weigh in with an article on wealth distribution in NZ. I think the Gini chart for NZ will be redrawn with new data soon, too.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-f...ectid=11274603
There are many polls and indicators for the election, and a Labour coalition is by no means ruled out at this stage. It's all a matter of perception, is it not?
Labour MP Phil Twyford has a good writeup.
G'day Sgt Pepper.
More than happy to indulge you. Enjoy your posts.
I am happy to say i don't share your pessimistic view of where we will be in a couple of years but do share a great concern about the craziness happening in the Middle East and also the ongoing tension between Russia and Ukraine.
But should things play out even half as badly as you've outlined, we will be well served and better prepared by having a 3rd term National lead Government.
As for the younger yet experienced National MPs being keen on promotions in a couple of years and watching the eventuality that Key will leave politics with hope of greater responsibility for themselves, is a healthy thing. I am glad also that we can straight away think of worthy future Leaders in the National caucus, something that is hard to see in the Labour caucus.
The main 2 talked about there are Jacinda Ardern and Little but sadly for them, on current polling neither may make it into Parliament next term.
Should current polling turn into reality at the election, Labour will be finished as the dominant party on the Left and will be fighting hard for that spot with the Greens.
Interesting times !
I have no problem showing you where Labour has changed it's policies as long as you show me where I said that. I said Labour are getting pulled to the far Left and they are, that is the only place they can breath right now and where they belong. Nobody can deny that. Clearly you are seeing things that are not there as I made no mention of policy changers by Labour.
More blindness by Labour this morning. Even after a photo is produced showing Donghua Liu's partner collecting the fundraising signed book that cost $15000.00 & a bottle of wine from Labour. That still can't get Labours memory banks into action. I think it's high time for another winebox inquiry.;) Convenient how Labour always use a fading memory when put under the heat, but act like pit bull terriers when they think they are onto something. Oh yeah, the photo. Red Faced Labour MP's - again!!! belg, Labour caught in the act again. Not a good look, but in saying that the damage is already done. No harm done aye!
Cunliffe must be feeling like Caesar at the moment, but who playing Brute?
I'm not that jaundiced that I can't see this is a set-up, but I guess if ABC want him gone, it's got to happen by the weekend apparently
Not sure you're seeing this for what it is Belg - I suspect this is coming from inside his own party. Might be wrong, but don't think so.....
don't fret over the politics of it all - what else would you expect anyway
I agree Belgarion, there is a lot of right-wing chatter that is belted out, as per the recipe from those Aussie cheerleaders, and most people seem to believe it, eventually. It's far from the truth. I've written once or twice to MPs and received much the same sort of banal reply, form letters. These would be from staffers.
in the mean time....... the true red labour voters...... who generally are more concerned with the state of their benefits or "redistributed" tax credits and wff and all the other credits they vote for, have no idea or even understand what is going on here with this current affair.
the center voters... ie the swing voters...... ie working class folks who sort of understand what is going on...... generally......will be paying attention with limited knowledge and judge what is happening by the "20 second sound bite" news. this is where the nats will score more points and the labs will lose points.
and the blue nat voters generally the "rich prieks" aka mana quote... folks who pay the most tax are voting with their pockets ..... and ..... a better understanding of what is happening in NZ as they generally read more political stuff.
end of the day..... there are 3 types of voters..... the loyalist..... the left loyalists are generally on the tax distribution receiving end, while the right loyalist are generally on the paying end.
then there are the ..... whats best for me and my family voters....... the left offers tax distribution for those not so wealthy, and the right offers tax breaks for middle class workers and above.
then there is the 3rd group...... these a middle class income tradys, small business folks, or folks concerned about the state of the nation (green stuff, welbeing, fairness) and listen and think about current politics by way of general media.
this third group is swayed by the 6 month lead up to the election.
so far the nats are collecting votes.
the working class is the ultimate "kingmaker" and the nats are simply playing a better game this time around.
Disc..... I helped vote Helen in, then helped vote her out....... I dont vote from my pocket, I vote by conscience.
Yep, silly stuff alright. To think Cunliffe wouldn't make as much a deal about it if was Keys "mistake" is idiotic. It's pure politics and in this election lead up Labour started it first.
In your book belg - in your book. Me, I'm smoking a Montecristo No. 2 - a Cuban Montecristo No. 2 and so is National. BTW, a Montecristo No. 2 is the finest (in my book) cigar a man can smoke.
belg, no where in any rule book does it say your policies must change to move left, right or even up or down - there is no rule book. A move to the left or the right can be by partnership, or a relationship between one or more parties. If you enter into an agreement then you are pulled towards the other parties way of thinking. That is whether either party or their supporters (you) like it. So no policy changers necessarily, however open arms for the other parties policies. That will pull you to the far left, right or up and down - understand? Good.
No mindless drivel, but common sense.
BTW, if you really think my source of information comes from a fairly dubious source. name which ones and I will defend them one X one.
Finally, well -well -well. You know this really does sadden me. I've said all along that National needs a strong opposition to get the best out of them. Sadly, the whole left of center is straight out of a Monty Python gig. Man I feel for the likes of E.Z, belg and westerly and I really do mean that. We all must know what they are going through right now knowing full well that their side is just a pathetic joke. I too would still be talking them up - somehow if I was in their shoes. My advice for Labour is run with David Cunliffe as this election is gone for them now. No point in promoting another Labour leader now. Then shortly after, elect somebody in their ranks that actually has talent. I'm thinking Jacinda Ardern and not for her good looks, or that gay feller, what's his name Graham or Grant Robertson. At least his sexiaty fits in. He will get the odd dig from bloggers like me, but I think he would do a far better job than D.C. The new leader has to disassociate themselves from Peters, the Greens, Mana and the Internet party right from the start and get confidence from their really support, the center left. The only way they can win in 2017 is to get back their true colours and belg that means center left and center left only. Please let this happen, forget the little parties, get back to two strong parties and that will be the tool needed to guide our country into the 2020s & beyond. Just to finish, EZ read what neopoleII has written just above. It's a bloody good summing up of how it is and for that very reason your theory on 3 or 4 terms goes right out the back door. Unless Labour revisits their ground roots or finds new ones, National could be in power for a generation.
Clinton: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Cunliffe: I have not lied
What do these statements have in common?
I thought I should post here before you run a record series of posts Cuzzie, and Neopole has spent a fair bit of time putting this post together.
Neopole is correct, National often win the sound bites challenge, but don't forget it's the serious money they have spent with Crosby Textor that is guiding them here. It's an unfair contest, but Russel Norman gives them a go from the left when he's given a chance.
I'm very loyal to Labour, but that doesn't mean I'm a bludger. I've met some people who are helping out in Labour's campaign, and these voters are not bludgers either. The common thread to most of these people is that they are keen observers of what is going on around them. They have taken the time to do some reading, they look past the sound bites, they even research statistics sometimes. I've posted some of them up, and like the Greens, who also do their homework, they are on safe ground when they say that NZ (as a whole) would be better off under Labour. Some special interests would disagree, but they are the privileged few.
David Cunliffe is in no trouble at all over the latest 11 year old form letter. The fact that it's all over the press and everyone is talking about it, is all due to Crosby Textor pressing the GO buttons on anything that could be useful. Labour don't have their response quite as organised, they want to run a straight election on the issues. My advice is not to let National hide those issues, because they are real, and National's record from the last few years is in most cases very poor.
Here's a late 2013 article about the right-leaning Fairfax Media, who have a major piece of the action in all our news feeds in NZ. Sure, there are some leftish commentators too, but the important 'reporters' are involved in the leading stories. Stuff.co.nz is the Fairfax site that makes these stories widely available. I'd noted Tracy Watkins too. Not very balanced reporting at all. Fairfax have all the main provincial papers, and the advert revenue that goes with that. Apparently they're not too keen on paying for lots of in-depth reporting.
http://fearfactsexposed.wordpress.co...ational-party/
Absolutely on the button slimwin. I think this 11 year old letter is neither here nor there. But what this has achieved is that now Labour will look even more hypocritical each time they call National corrupt, for exactly the same practices. This was going to be Labour's major theme in the election campaign and it has been neutered.
I suggest so have Labour's chances. They are in complete disarray. Xerof is most likely right that this is a job on Cunliffe from within Labour. Recent polls suggest noone below David Parker on the party list may make it to Parliament. That creates lots of unhappy campers !
I wholeheartedly agreed that Maurice Williamson's interference with a police matter was wrong and Key was right to demand his resignation.
Now a letter has come out from former Labour MP David Carter's office putting pressure on Immigration NZ about the same guy, while his immigration application was being processed and he explicitly asked them to hurry it through the process. It is equally wrong.
But it shows that this sort of "lobbying" is undertaken by all political parties, be they left or right.
Labour need to get rid of Cunliffe and fast. He is a bit liability and seeing Shearer last night on Paul Henry they must be kicking themselves that they replaced him. Shearer is intelligent and articulate and I can relate to him as a person as well. Latest Poll in Stuff puts Labour on 23% and National on 55%. Disaster.
This has been a classic play by Crosby-Textor, no doubt about it. John Key knew about this ancient form letter 2 weeks ago. It's no coincidence that while he's apparently doing statesmanlike things overseas, the details were released about David Cunliffe's signature over here. And the stuff.co.nz poll showing low figures came out about the same time. The IPSOS poll always seems to rate Labour lower than on other polls. If you think about it, you just have to screen the people to call. Not hard to take a guess on their voting direction, from some of the data available to anyone.
Can we get back to real issues before the election? Crosby-Textor and National don't want that.
I know it is convenient and you like to blame everything on Crosby-Textor, but this time surely even you EZ can see that Cunliffe has not got any support apart from Sue Moroney within his own caucus. He is turning out to be a complete disaster along with the experiment that is the presidential style Leader vote.
My prediction is that if they stay with Cunliffe until the election, the haemorrhaging will be so severe that Labour will become a shadow of its former self and remain so for 2-3 elections. Possibly ending up as a junior partner in a Greens lead Government in 2020 or 2023 !!!
I can't see Greens passing Labour until they drop this silly co-leader stuff. They shouldn't expect to lead a govt. when the voters do not know which one would be Prime Minister, or do they really think people will vote in co-Prime ministers? If they sorted this out now they'd start to erode Labour even further.
So low - 77 voters in every 100 will not vote for Labour. 77 in every 100. EZ, keep on blaming everybody else, I like that. Head in the sand will lose even more votes. Look at the real issue here, your leader. Pathetic in a word. He will be doing well to hold onto 23%.
Anybody want to take EZ up on his wager still, or is that closed. EZ?:D
Oh dear - more to come & the link is Labour's crisis
I agree with EZ, talking about a useless Labour is ho-hum. Lets talk about the next Labour leader or something. This is kind of like comparing the All Blacks to Bangladesh in a Rugby game. Labour has downgraded itself as a political force and is in the middle of full on imploding
Uh no, you are wrong Belg.
This is from the letter sent to Immigration NZ from Chris Carter's office in October 2002 (highlights are mine) :
"Therefore they have requested that this office approach Immigration New Zealand in order to expedite the application process which will enable this business venture to proceed in a timely fashion," wrote the electorate agent.
Mr Liu has already invested over $3 million in the ASB in Auckland and is keen to purchase this particular building for redevelopment.
I would be grateful for any consideration that could be given to expediting this application."
I don't agree that National often win the soundbite challenge, though it is a subjective measure of course. I would have said the Opposition win much more often. Partly because the Government is responding rather than initiating a lot of the time, which is the Opposition doing a good job. But also because the Government parties tend to be more measured, less colourful, even rather boring. Which I suppose is their job.
Certainly that doesn't make you a bludger, and you do provide useful balance in this thread.
But..... I live in Wellington Central and know a fair few lefties of various stripes, including quite a few academics. Off hand I can't think of any who are not being partly or fully funded by the public purse one way or another. That doesn't make them bludgers, of course. It does mean they have a serious interest in maintaining taxpayer subsidies or other inputs to their lives.
Most people who are active in politics are keen observers of life, the universe and everything.
Actually Belg, that letter is a pretty clear endorsement of the application even though it is not expressly written. "Expediting" the application would only have the desired effect of "enabling the business venture to proceed in a timely fashion", if the application was APPROVED quickly. DECLINING the application quickly wouldn't help. The clear inference to be drawn is that the writer believes it is inevitable but just a matter of time before the application will be approved. If that ain't endorsement, what is?
Belg - In my opinion, it is a carefully drafted letter that infers but does not state, get it done and get it done quickly.
Add that to the fact that there seems to be pay-off to Labour, in the form of donations before the next election, it doesn't look good.
And yes, it looks just as bad for National in relation to the citizenship as it does for Labour for the residency, but then National wasn't trying to claim the moral high ground.
It will be interesting to see if any new allegations come out in question time (ie. cant be sued). The rumour is the bottle of wine cost $100k - Thank you very much for the residency.
NO one can publish that though as there is no proof - helped by the fact that Labour appear to have breached electoral law by not disclosing (at least in relation to the $15k book).
Why would it damage their brands if the majority of the public agree? And in that majority a lot of people with money to spend.
HELL NO, we want David Cunliffe. Once this rogue poll can be put behind us he can continue to talk about the real issues and just watch the silent majority carry him to victory in September. It's gonna be a Labour Landslide!
We probably won't even need Hone, Lailla, Russell and Winston.
January 1st 2015
Dear Mr Key
Naturally we are delighted at you success in achieving a third term for national in the election in September. However we are mindful that the chance of attaining the treasury benches in 2017 are very low indeed. Consequently we believe it is best to make the most of the political capital we have been delivered.
As we have consistently supported your government since 2008, it is timely to remind you there is some disquiet that much has not been achieved that aligns with our economic views. Specifically we expect the following to be progressed and embedded during the third term.
Privatisation of ACC to enable the insurance industry to participate fully.
Selling off of further state assets, especially Kiwibank
Labour market reform, with reintroduction of Employment Contracts Act, although naturally it would have to labelled differently.
Reduction of Corporate tax to 25%
Reintroduction of interest on student loans
Reversing entitlements under working for families.
We look forward to your views
Yours sincerely
National Party Donors
Yeah, that would be nice but the reality is you will get the same old centre left policies that they have been peddling for the last two terms. Look forward to more parental leave entitlements, free doctors visits, no change to super, free school meals, massive funding for decile 1, and other welfare - dressed up as fighting child poverty where possible.
One way or another, those on low pay or without jobs pay a fair bit towards the economy. While things may appear tough in America, in the middle states at least, you can buy petrol, food and beer for about 50% -66% of what it costs here, wages might start at US$8/hr and hospitality lower, but with tips. The rental on a rural house is $200 (A MONTH). So you see here that our GST, excise taxes and high rentals exact a heavy toll on the lower paid.
So I disagree with JR Ewing and FP. Let's wait and see what happens to the GINI index on the next report. And like Belgarian, I can't believe the press that has been organised on an old letter that showed to be completely above board, in what it expressed.
Belgarian, do you have any knowledge on whether Crosby-Textor are still employed by National in the lead-up to this election? Looking at the way National have run this country for the last few years, I don't think it's possible that they have engineered this broadside themselves.
You obviously have spent little time in the states. Each state sets its own sales tax along with all sorts of other taxes. Workers get 2 weeks annual leave and often work long hours. There is little point in quoting rural rentals - it's the same the world over. Rents are high where people want to live - low where there is little demand. That's pretty much the way the world works with everything. Most people seem to know that although Labour politicians don't seem to know it. While I hate to state something so obvious, prices always exact a high toll on the lower paid.
P.S. You will be delighted to know I have set a photo of D Cunliffe as my desktop picture. follow this link
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/
and scroll through photos to 'Mike's editorial' and you can share in my delight.
I note an Internet poll on MSN NZ is running heavily in favour of Cunliffe should resign :-)
The old confusion above between infer and imply.
I imply something in a statement and you infer something from my statement.
Get it right for goodness sakes....
You can be sure Paul Holmes would have been much worse and a lot more irritating...
Yeah, even the Herald favors the Nats over Labour now belg. They must all be scabs now. Put the word out to all the comrades not to buy the Herald because they speak the truth. Nobody likes losers. About time the Herald weren't so one eyed towards Labour. So now every reporter is a right wing shill and they are all wrong. Nope my friend it is you that is wrong. Labour and Cunliffe are hopelessly out of the touch with reality - stuck in the 90s still and there they will remain until they step up. To emphasize this and in the theme of words you have been using today, they are flucked. Completely and utterly flucked. Labour has done this to themselves and National continues to recover from the dark bad Helen Clarks days.
I feel good right now about how this election is going to unfold.
BTW, here is the direct link to the D.C photo fungus pudding was talking about. Cunliffe caught fibbing.
Cuzzie, DC was simply left in the dark about a form letter he signed 11 years ago. The reasons for this were perfectly reasonable. Whoever wrote the letter got the person's name in the title correct, but spelt his surname incorrectly, twice, in the document. This meant it was filed in the wrong order. As the letter was not corrected before it was sent, the implication is that David Cunliffe had a very brief encounter with that page, probably signing it along with other documents as part of his electorate duties.
Now we can also look at other comparisons with Maurice Williamson's situation. Mr Liu was in David Cunliffe's electorate, but not in Mr Williamson's. At the time of DC's involvement, Mr Liu was not the subject of a Police enquiry, and DC did not contact the Police about him. Mr Liu doesn't have a holiday home adjacent to the Labour MP. DC's letter was also fully within the laws of this country, it is what an MP's office does. It advocates, within the rules, for constituents.
As the Immigration office knew about this letter early in May, but didn't pass on the details to David Cunliffe (they passed it on to the National Party via govt), a trap has been set for DC, and it will have taken a week or so to get that ready.
NZ Resources has an item.
Note that any donations from Mr Liu appear four years into the future from the Cunliffe letter.Quote:
Test of Cunliffe’s leadership hold
By Dene Mackenzie
New Zealand Labour Party leader David Cunliffe will from today face the toughest test yet of his leadership following revelations he advocated on behalf of wealthy Chinese businessman Donghua Liu.
As it has transpired, Liu has donated significant sums to both Labour and National and MPs on both sides of the spectrum have advocated on his behalf.
National Party MP Maurice Williamson resigned as a minister after it emerged he had contacted police to ask about the progress of a case of assaulting a woman with intent to injure after an incident at an Auckland hotel.
It also emerged Williamson and Liu were neighbours at a Coromandel holiday area, despite Williamson feigning innocence about any friendship.
Cunliffe, as the MP for New Lynn, wrote a letter in 2003 advocating for Mr Liu after he was “approached my constituent Donghua Lui who is concerned at the time it is taking to process his Investment Category application.”
Cunliffe this week denied any involvement with Liu's residency bid after the New Zealand Herald revealed the property developer paid $15,000 at a Labour Party fundraiser for a book signed by former Prime Minister Helen Clark in 2007.
Liu was granted residency under the Investor Category in 2005 by Labour's associate immigration minister Damien O'Connor - against official advice.
Labour has hurled insults at National about “cash for access'' to ministers, when it now appears Labour has done exactly the same thing.
The level of distaste and public cynicism surrounding the coming election is rising quickly.
Why this is important to Cunliffe is that from today Labour MPs can change their leader without resorting to the tortuous process of consulting the membership and the powerful trade union lobby - the two parts of the party which supported Cunliffe. He failed to win caucus support.
Taking over as Labour leader now would almost certainly be a losing battle for this election. However, Clark took three campaigns to win power and then went on to be one of New Zealand's highest-regarded leaders and now is the third-highest ranked official at the UN. She is also being touted as a possible UN secretary-general.
A Labour MP, with support from his or her colleagues, could survive an election loss and take the party into power in 2017. But Labour has developed a habit of dumping leaders quickly in the search for the next big thing. If this continues, someone not yet elected may become the next Labour prime minister.
*Dene Mackenzie is political editor of the Otago Daily Times.
Belgarion, I see another poll has Labour at a more sensible 28%. It's weird that of the 1000-odd people contacted by IPSOS in the normal way, only 23% +/- 3.1% supported Labour. I looked at the IPSOS rules for choosing voters, it looked sensible. But 1000 is not a big sample of 4500000 people.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/another...w-30-ck-157976
I suggest you take a statistics course. NCEA level 3 will suffice. :) A sample size of 1000 if the sample is done correctly is more than adequate and that is why they do have the margins of error with these polls. As the sample size increases.... so does the margin of error decrease.
Really the only poll that counts is on election day, as nearly anything could happen between now and then to swing the vote in either direction
Curia blogs all the polls and in the top right corner, aggregates them into a poll of polls:
http://curiablog.wordpress.com/
It's intended purpose as a poll predicting a population result with a reasonable margin of error which the pollsters also state. Yes sampling is important and that is why I qualified my initial statement that it needs to be done correctly. Yes I know its not linear belg... how big a sample would you use for a political poll?
What is interesting to me though is that even with all the noise and sampling error and other errors, Labour seems to be averaging about 30% and National around the 48% mark. Good enough for me.
NCEA level 3 was suggested because from distant memory, 7th form stats was enough to understand sampling and how it relates to population. Quantitative studies at Uni off course go a little more in depth.
I don,t like witch hunts, whether ancient or modern as to the current sanctimonious drivel being peddled by John Key, Well I have great faith in the laws of the Universe and we know what goes around comes around.I await his eventual political come uppance
:)
Couldn't do much worse of a job than the majority of them.
As Belg says the result can depend on the question asked. I did see one not that long ago (Can't recall what the subject/question was) that if the question was asked in a different way, there would have been a very different result. The question was asked in a way to get the result wanted.
Hi Belg - wasn't it Labour who took Shane Jones out in the first place, when they picked David Cunliffe against the wishes of their own caucus and against the wishes of the general population? Is it really Nationals fault that David is much better in demonstrating his arrogance than in connecting to the people?
Look - I do understand your pain and frustration, and personally I would love to see in NZ politics at least a credible alternative from the left. However - I don't think that Labour has any chance to govern again unless they start to sort out the source of their own misery. Maybe, just maybe its not National's fault, and maybe it is not even the people's fault that they don't love Labour anymore. Just a thought - maybe Labour should have a good look into the mirror to identify the culprit.
The NBR poll quoted surveyed by telephone 845 people 5% of whom did not name a party. This is not a cross section of the public because not every one has a land line these days and many do not have a phone.at all.
The Fairfax poll if you read the fine print said 777 respondents were decided on who they would vote for. The 237 undecided voters were disregarded in the results.
Also not mentioned is how many were asked but refused to take part.
The Fairfax poll shows bias in the way the results were interpreted and reported favouring the right. The 23% of undecided voters were ignored in other words
Belgarion, you seem to think everyone can be brought. If so how much would I have to pay you to vote for national at the next election?
Brilliant analysis of someone you do not know. It's rubbish of course. Furthermore it makes no sense. If you are making profits by selling properties you will be paying income tax on that amount. If you want to pay more that's fine with me. The Salvation Army is my favourite charity, not that I believe one word of the god-bothering crap they believe in, but they do an excellent job of assisting the needy. You could give a chunk of your profits to them.
Hi Belg, I agree with your quality assessment of the NZ media, we might however disagree on the cause. With very few exceptions (National radio?) you can describe what they deliver only by using one of these unspeakable four letter words (and I don't mean hope ...). Little research, journalists focussing on tactics and personal stuff instead of on substance and issues. If anything happens they prefer to interview a huge bunch of accidental bystanders, neighbours and the quota of clueless children instead of focussing on the issues. But hey, this sort of **** is just much cheaper and easier to produce than well researched journalism. Some people might consider it as well as entertaining - and hey, it is hard to fill one hour with good quality journalism.
Looking however at the cause of the problem - not sure, whether I agree with you. Have seen over the last two decades hardly any good NZ TV and well researched newspaper articles are few and far between. National radio is not too bad, but can only excel given that there is nothing else worthwhile listening to (nothing wrong with Concert FM - I mean political analysis).
Why do you blame National for this situation? Labour had quite a lengthy reign during this time. Yes, Labour managed to get a number of their cronies into well paid positions (tax payer footing the bill) - and still seem to do so under National (Taurima affair), but other than that - just remind me, how they changed the quality of our media?
Belg, you're frothing round the edges there a tad. Govt stats site tells me that in 2013 there were 472,601 businesses in NZ with 1,941,000 employees. These are businesses from 1-5 up to 100 plus employees. So are you suggesting that all those scurrilous, selfish employers don't have a very important role in the economy by directly starting and running said business and providing employment for said individuals. Owners and self employed individuals pay taxes just the same as all the rest of us. if it wasn't for small business...well there is no country in the world that doesn't have small business so its a bit pointless really. What's the alternative...have the Govt turn into an even bigger employer than it is now? Whoops..been there done that. All business entities pay tax as well so they don't "escape" tax at all. So maybe you want to increase the tax on business?...ok well the unfortunate fact of that is this means less money available in the kitty for the workers. Socialism taken to its extremes doesn't work as evidenced by Russia etc. The best system is the one that encourages and rewards entrepreneurial hard work and provides incentives to its citizens get off their backsides. The Govt. role is to provide the framework for this to happen, collect a % as its "due" and use those funds for infrastructure to support growth. NZ does this pretty well actually and this is readily apparent whenever I visit other countries. So "selfish and scurrilous" is just a ridiculous description. Personally I found that I made more money when I had fewer employees so if I use that as an example, it would seem that those business owners should be congratulated and thanked. Not that everybody understands that of course.