We all get to the end.
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Hi Bjauck.
Perhaps some misunderstanding of that post.
I meant going the distance in debate, not any race having a finite end ,I didnt even use the word end, and no inference of "final solutions" or the like.
I've since amended the post to include the word discussion.
Obviously, All races have a right to debate.
Thanks for the refinement. If they can't go the distance, presumably you have set them a specific length of time (and forcefulness of the expression of their argument?) over they need to maintain the discussion to meet your standard? I am still curious which races have met your standard?
Perhaps you may have meant culture or nationality rather than race? Argument and publicly expressing disagreement (especially with strangers) may have cultural taboos, especially with respect to women.
After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance in such discussion.
No limit or standard inferred by me.
I agree with your taboo statement, which reinforces my point.
Enough of skirting around on the periphery, do you wish to address my question; what is it that European have that Maori cannot have?
Some observers may wish to contribute what Maori have, that European can not have.
I was just trying to clarify and understand your statement with respect to races and their ability to engage in discussion. I understand now that "stamina to go the distance" has no quantifiable meaning, and so is meaningless.
I do not wish to engage with you on your subsequent question.
Obviously not.
The woke leftist indoctrinated Cindy devotees love to set the agenda to suit themselves - with cries of racism, sexism and elitism to cancel & shut down any hard & searching discussions & questions on just how incompetent & racist this Labour government is.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...oint-5-billion
Another $2.5 billion of debt so far because of this lockdown, one which could have been prevented if MIQ facilities are properly managed and the red zone flights from Sydney were not undertaken.
Think of what the $2.5 billion could have built by way of proper MIQ facilities. Something that was recommended but rejected by this incompetent government.
Then there’s the billions of dollars lost by businesses butchered by yet another long lockdown - businesses which received bugger all help from this government with its focus on breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters.
I was not attempting to cancel Getty’s wish to open up a discussion on the question posed. I was just stating that I did not wish to engage with Getty in discussing it. Other posters are at liberty to engage with him on that question. As far as I am aware, it is not compulsory to answer questions posted on the thread.
Getty had not answered my question about which races had failed his enigmatic discussion stamina test. That is Getty’s prerogative.
Has the Govts media bribe run out or something?
Many negative articles in today's Herald and Sunday Star Times.
If they are controlling the media they aren't doing a very good job of it!
Yes and the $10b data centre announced two days ago, is in tiny font and story number 50.
Quite possibly it has.
Ardern is now in a horrible bind with the media. She will have to keep throwing the lollies.
Also the Media have come into some heat from the a few journalists of integrity highlighting the bribe.
Remember whose money it is they're using to do it.
Some in the media keeping an eye on the polls, and seeing a trend? That trend being money hose turned off or down to a trickle? Jobs on the line? Thinking ahead.
I don't actually think it was a bribe. Not as such anyway. I think it was support for struggling mainstream media. Trouble is, it was a lot of money and we have other businesses falling over daily. Not all small either. It would be natural for recipients of largesse to support right back. And they have, until recently.
Did you not see the question mark?
Did you assume that it was a statement?
Learn to read and not just spit out words.
That the money is a bribe is conjecture on your part - it is not a fact no matter how many times you say it is.
If it was a bribe then it wasn't set up well - far to many negative articles and opinions in the MSM.
Maybe they failed in the bribe department also?
For the bribe to be successful it only needed to sway voting numbers a few points which is easily done by not asking tough questions, or giving glowing reviews of government performance, or idolising the Dear Leader, all of which occurred.
As for failing....long term it will always come back and bite them. When the money stops, or the heat comes on the recipient, the dynamic will change. How can Ardern complain? She can hardly come out and say "Oi, you aren't honouring the bribe!"
I think the current government usually means well but is prone to making decisions because they fit the ideology. It is what governments do, but if the delivery goes off the rails then governments have to wear the consequences. Eventually. In summary, I am saying the government is more incompetent than malicious.
Agreed. Although that is reason enough not to tolerate having them strip you of your Civil Liberties with a Domestic Passport. Something you can guarantee we will never get rid of....and the authoritarian creep will continue....one incompetent government after another.
Why aren't people more demanding of their government to boost the Health system rather than take the easy route and strip us of our Civil Liberties? I'll tell you why....18 months of propaganda driven fear.
I saw in his opinion piece from today (see link below) that he recommends only vaccinated to be able to enter licensed premises, (which I don't agree with) other than that he is saying the opposite. Stop with the fear mongering and stripping of Civil Liberties.
I don't know if he is speaking for the Nats. I see he did name check Seymour. He actually speaks against mandatory vaccination.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...DOOHWLKFBVK74/
I saw more common sense in that article than I have seen from Ardern in 18 months of lolly throwing, media bribery and general fear mongering. He even mentions boosting the Health system to cope! Who'd a thunk? Not Ardern that's for sure.
For the record....I've never thought much of John Key.
Or this where he supports mandatory Covid vaccination in workplaces
https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6274245948001
Wow - where did that understanding come from?
Not at all what I asserted.
JK supports restricting access to stuff (including work) for unvaccinated people.
He can support that but he doesn't have to think about the implications of that (like people becoming unemployable as jonu suggested).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne...-water-reforms
As loud and as clear a message to Grubby Cindy to lay off the 3 Waters of Christchurch.
Bravo!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/paul-h...DTCCS6ZSCMBV4/
paywalled
A good summary of where NZ is at :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"After all, this was the world's Covid-free paradise. How on earth did we do so well? Everyone wanted to find out!
What the world did not know then - but has since found out - is New Zealand had moved into phase two of its unofficial Covid strategy, to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
We went hard and fast on borrowing. And borrowing is fine as long as you borrow to invest. But not us.
Did we use our hard-won, Covid-free months - almost a year - to invest in health infrastructure, both hardware and staffing?
No.
Did we vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate?
No.
Did we invest in money-making initiatives that exploited our Covid-free status?
No.
We wondered aloud about a cycleway over the Auckland Harbour Bridge.
We have squandered our leading edge for the lack of a plan. And having lost the lead we undoubtedly had, we are now racing to the back of the pack.
Our economic policy is akin to a reverse mortgage, as we live quite well whilst building debt. Unfortunately, in order to be sound, reverse mortgages require that you die quite soon."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clueless Cindy witrh her bunch of incompetents - messing up NZ for future generations with her one trick pony lockdown show.
What has she delivered except messes & disasters - housing, health, education, immigration, crime and child poverty.
Meanwhile, she is playing the racist game of favoring Maoris in everywhere possible to corner their votes (pakehas having split their votes down the middle) to stay in power and cover up the messes.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...D4UGDIBMG5KPY/
paywalled
Excerpts :
"This Government is running out of fingers to plug the holes in the dyke. Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static. It's as though the stable door's been ripped off its hinges and the horse is nowhere in sight. Everyone's being caught by surprise, with the Government being about as transparent as a brick wall."
"Expect Jacinda Ardern to head off overseas in November as well. A tip-off to the up-coming travel was checked out with her office with a spokesperson saying "no travel has been confirmed and would be dependent on the domestic situation with Covid. They're political weasel words which we have to listen to daily. Ardern will be hoping the dyke will withstand the pressure between now and then."
It might be more productive and useful to encourage vaccinations, rather than turn it into an unrelated issue.
We shouldn't become like the US, or australia.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...d-unfit-agency
The Government has directed Oranga Tamariki to devolve some of its decision-making and resources to community and Māori organisations, after yet another report criticises the troubled child protection agency.
Children's Minister Kelvin Davis on Wednesday made public a report from a ministerial advisory board he asked in February to inspect Oranga Tamariki's relationships with whānau, iwi and Māori, and its social work practices and organisational culture.
The board, which included some of the agency’s hardline critics, said Oranga Tamariki was "self-centred and constantly looks to itself for answers", and made a series of recommendations that have been accepted wholesale by Davis.
The report is yet another black mark on the record of Oranga Tamariki, which has routinely faced scandal as it has struggled to reform itself after it replaced its predecessor, the Child Youth and Family Agency, in 2017.
99% of opinion (or any other content for that matter) on the NZ Herald is rubbish, and it's all paywalled. Opinions are like the proverbial. Why you would pay to read that kind of low content garbage is anyone's guess. It is all part of the continuous dumbing down process that is going on in New Zealand.
News driven by AI would be nice (no need for $100m subsidies).
Google news can deliever copy and pasted stuff to my device of choice.
That article is not actually paywalled. Agree that opinions in the MSM are let us say variable, but there are some columnists worth listening to, even if only to disagree! And IMO Barry Soper is one of them - simply because he has been in the political journalist role for a very very long time. Very different experience to the 20-somethings who seem to write most of the regular columns. No problem to disagree, but I'll bet all the politicians read his columns.
Exactly.
One can choose to who to read and not to read.
To be aware of what is being discussed out there rather than be blissfully unaware.
Barry Soper's article today really is about how Cindy, after promising open and transparent government, is anything but. And the secrecy now extends to even ministers taking overseas trips after the backlash over the hypocrisy of James Shaw flying himself & 8 others half way around the globe to attend a conference where NZ does not even get to address the conference!
Is the racist Labour government sending a dog-whistle message that child abuse is an exclusively Maori issue? I take great umbrage at that idea. I would have though that it was a ‘human’ issue. Europeans, Pacific Islanders, Asians all have these issues as well.
Was Damian's trip secret or did the media never think to ask?
As for the PM travelling - sounds like gossip but should she say, at the earliest stage, that she is thinking of travelling sometime, maybe?
Unfortunately, Barry is a good reporter but not so good when he becomes a gossip columnist.
No JA at the preso today. I wonder why....
9 minutes ago
Breaking: There are 45 new community cases, all are in Auckland.
9 minutes ago
Hipkins and Bloomfield have arrived.
Protect the Queen!
#CovidFiasco
The hermits in this kingdom have no long covid and are in rather good health currently.
How many have died in NZ of this dreadful disease since the current Delta outbreak began??
Release the death toll, the people have a right to know!!
It's not so bad being a hermit, when the world is full of "unkind" people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng
NZ doesn't exist in world affairs, and we should keep it that way I think.
Of course, that has nothing to do with the inference that we are being kept in the dark over covid deaths - LNF did say "of this dreadful disease".
As for dying of other diseases (or issues) due to delayed treatment etc - the 'excess death rate' gives a good indication.
A lagging indicator but not is the "we will never know" category.
And, I suspect, not accurate.
He says
"Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static."
Not sure when he was looking but in Q&A she had her mask off from start to finish.
"Faafoi, who doesn't have a legal bone in his body, is making changes to property law, "
Does he need to be a lawyer? The 120 MPs make law but few are (or were) lawyers.
That's why they have a Ministry!
Barry should stick to reporting the news rather than trying to make it.
Sisters are doing it for themselves!
Why does Clarke need to come wading in? He's soneone's husband an a fishing show personality. Surely Cindy has 'got this', does she need her man running in on her behalf? Is it the 1950's?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...disinformation
Covid-19: Clarke Gayford criticises Sir John Key's 'name slinging' and use of 'disinformation'
15:56, Sep 29 2021
Clarke Gayford has accused former prime minister Sir John Key of “name slinging” and using of “disinformation” to criticise the Government’s Covid-19 response.
Gayford weighed in on the conversation around Key’s comments on Wednesday. In a seven-part Twitter thread, the prime minister’s fiance called out Key for “name slinging” and using “disinformation”.
“It was such a shame that the name slinging [and] use of disinformation divided his contribution into partisan politics.”
That's a low blow.
Would you prefer he wasn't allowed to express his opinion ? That's a bit weird. Why ?
The point he was making was Sir John Key as an ex PM, could have chosen to use his platform to support & encourage vaccination in this public emergency.
Unfortunately his comments didn't offer anything which hasn't already been discussed many times over, i.e. new, & many think undermine the work being done to get to 90 or 95% vaccination rate.
Would be good to have a TV campaign involving ex PM's, famous All Blacks, Burling & other sports people, musicians, actors, writers etc all pushing a consistent message of get vaccinated.
Everyone agrees, it's the fastest, safest & best way out of this.
Btw, Clarke's an impressive fisherman.
Will Bishop Brian do his bit, and encourage his followers to get vaccinated?
Have we seen any other partner of any ex-PM enter the political fray to defend their partner? Cindy is a grown woman, as cynical and manipulative as they come so she or her numerous Spin team (paid by taxpayers) most probably drafted the Gayford's comments.
Impressive fisherman? Take me to any of the spots he gets taken to (by locals & experienced fishermen, paid for by TVNZ or the media) and I am an even more impressive fisherman.
Clarke can catch them and Jacinda can deep fry them and serve them up with chips. That’s her forte.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...NWPTRWPAGFIGM/
And just like that, NZ & Cindy are not the poster children of the pandemic success story anymore.
A one-off residence pathway visa will be offered to the roughly 165,000 migrant workers and their families stranded here through the pandemic.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/immigr...EPG5NQBHMKVCY/
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, whether a husband, an angler, or an non-executive board member of the NZ subsidiary of a big Australian company.
I guess you can tell media outlets what they should be allowed to publish?
Obviously it is up to you how much weight you give a fisherman's opinion on public health and politics, and that of a former National Party PM working for a big Australian Bank on the performance of a NZ Labour Party PM.
But of course they are - just as John Key is.
Gayford though is the partner of the PM (Cynical Spinmistress Cindy) and it is such a pathetic look for him to jump to the defence of his poor ‘helpless’ partner.
None of us would expect or indeed, want our partners to do so if we have a work issue. But maybe the likes of Bjauck & Dobby41 do?
Clearly The PM is not helpless. I don't think see how this is a work issue as Key is speaking just as an outside commentator. I guess it may take a 1950's mindset to think of this as about a "helpless" partner?
However for an Ex National Party Leader on the payroll of an Australian Bank I guess a current Labour PM, in the midst an evolving epidemic, is an easy target for the picking.
Fine print said they need to have stayed in NZ for at least 3 years to qualify. That will cut out lots of applicants and seems a ridiculous hindrance rather than applying to everyone that is here already on a short term visa and has an ongoing job. Why can they not do anything properly ?
Couldn't agree less. Labour has Ardern, who is undeniably popular but the rest of the dismal crowd don't help at all. Think Jackson, Henare, Parker, Twyford, Mahuta, Davis, Clark, Faafoi, O'Connor - there are others who are permanently below the radar. Unbelievable these people have risen through their party to make it to the ballot paper, and that really says a lot about the party and its membership; whereas National does have some competent members, (albeit with a couple of duds) but needs to attend to its broken rudder - pronto. If they don't they deserve everything that's coming.
You're forgetting Gayford has always had a huge following on social media in his own right, in fact he has several thousand more followers on Twitter than the current leader of the National party or any currant National MP !
So naturally when he comments, media sit up & take notice.
Bronnie, Mary English & other partners certainly made comments in their time, but apart from the odd occasion, no one took much notice. (e.g. Mary English expressed v strong personal opinions at Select Committee level)
Suggesting his Tweets make Adern look weak, is grasping at straws. Did Mary make Bill look weak?
He's a young man with a young daughter, concerned about the future & the pandemic, of course he's going to have strong opinions of his own.
You may not be aware, Clarke Gayford is into Freedive Spearfishing, miles out in the ocean in 100's of meters of water.
Holding your breath while fighting a fish half your weight, on the end of a spear line, 30 meters down, with just mask & flippers, with sharks nosing around is not for the faint hearted.
It's an extreme sport, for very few, only the fittest & experienced, at 90 feet you are on the limit.
Btw its the most sustainable & purest form of fishing.
"....and that was a political broadcast from the Labour Party; authorised by Blue Skies & fellow Labour Party devotees"
LOL!
Perhaps is there bit of a internal conflict with your communications strategy BS? Maybe you should change your name to Red Skies. :cool:
Well something we can agree on is, I too hope some good comes of Key's comments & they put some pressure & urgency on the govt's delivery & performance.
Apart from problems like housing crisis, the vaccine roll out has been far too slow, MIQ is a mess & losing valuable doctors & nurses because of held up residency applications inexcusable.
We too have NZ relatives stuck overseas with no hope of coming home in the current system & while only around 52% of the Maori population have currently had at least 1 jab.
And there needs to be some urgency around very strong incentives put in place to get the complacent (esp under 35's) & hesitant minority vaccinated immediately & not slowly over the next 3 or 4 months.