Only if you think the government “attempts” have been comprehensive, material and sufficient. And that is also assuming that policy over recent decades has not actually exacerbated inequality of opportunity.
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Just an idealistic socialist dream that has been attempted many times, that will never succeed unless the go getters are nobbled, which in many ways they are already.
Think back to your school days.
30 kids in a class, were they all equal in academic and sports performance?
No, some excelled at one or the other, and plenty of all rounders.
That continues into adulthood and society, and no amount of govt fiddling will change it, unless we go to communism, which removes incentive to do well, then we will all be low performers, as I have witnessed in many communist countries I have been in.
So am I Bjauck, and its our contentment that matters, not having someone from govt looking over our shoulder telling us we should be better, or you & I comparing ourselves to our peers, and unnecessarily frustrating ourselves.
As fungus wrote, as long as the opportunity is there, it is up to us what we do with it.
I know a chap who lived in the streets, and was happy, took pride in his ability to survive, now motelled, and immersed in all the social problems that go with his peers.
Hard to start a business when you're worried about rent and high power prices from a rentier class of NZers.
No it's not. Plenty of enterprising people with a bit of energy and a healthy attitude do it every day. Most of them are very grateful that there are other enterprising types who lease them the necessary premises. Both parties benefit from these structures. It's how the world works. There is no need to worry about a business provided you have done your homework and don't have a personality that frightens customers away. Commerce is just simple algebra.
Energy and healthy attitudes don't pay the business expenses here sadly. :sleep:
About equality. Here is an anecdote from within my family. Small sample but telling all the same. Ours did a trades foundation course, no fees and a bit of travel allowance, no other government funding. More than 20 arrived on day 1. Some dropped out within the week and at the end only 4 graduated and went on to apprenticeships. Most attendees were required to be there to retain their benefits, so ours said.
Opportunity yes. Outcome not so much.
And there in a nutshell ....
Interesting read from an Ardern supporter. Anyone smell the coffee brewing?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation...de-me-critical
Since its relevant to your display name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CvAS1KZ9Q
This bumbling idiot is a disgrace - 10 mins late after 4.5 weeks of a brutal lockdown only to waffle on before cutting to the chase.
We're going to the dogs, lead by a horse.
You get some free cash in terms of a wage subsidy though.
Despite many businesses not needing it and it being optional to pay back.
Fair enough davflaws. She says she "was a supporter for the last 4 years", which takes in the last election as well.
Now she has woken up to Ardern. I suspect she is not alone. Ardern wouldn't know how to deliver a pizza (she worked in a fish and chippie, get it), let alone policy.
Reflecting upon it, I reckon Ardern is like those people you meet down the pub....you know, the type that say "if i was in charge..." and have no clue how to deliver it. That's our Cindy. All talk and no delivery. Wasn't one of her 4 years in charge the year of delivery? I don't know which one....cos she's awfully short on delivery.
Leave out the personal - there are lots of people who are currently unsuited to self employment , lots that are currently unsuited to employment, and lots that are unsuited to education as it is presently configured.
This hurts us all. We are starting to address these issues. Progress is slower than it would have been if the right were not so willing to scream "separatism!!" when governments of either stripe have moved to empower minorities.
Progress would be very very fast if the brown population of NZ embrace education, education & more education rather than hold sportsmen like the ABs as their ideal role models.
Brain rather than brawn.
Proof? Look at the Asian population in NZ and how they embrace education (freely available to all) to improve themselves one generation to the next generation.
Let’s be blunt - brawn needs far less overall effort, commitment & dedication than brain to succeed in a very limited field in sports or manual work.
Empowering minorities, Cindy style, actually mean holding them back by emboldening them to follow inferior ways - like separate justice, health & education system. Excuses, excuses & more excuses to fail.
Maybe Cindy needs to send more ministers to embrace the Mongrel Mob & Black Power as ideal role models for Maori kids by legitimizing them with visits & koha?
What strange sort of logic have you come up with today? It takes no effort at all to receive low wages; or to have low life expectancy. And as far as more occupational health and safety risks - it all sounds like the life of a hedgehog to me. They are bone idle creatures, expending little effort to crawl from one piece of something to nibble on, to the next bit.
Don't waste your precious time responding to a Labour Party plant & nincompoop in the same vein as Cindy and her team of incompetents.
I have him on Ignore and unfortunately I still read some of his postings (via responses by others to the nincompoop) but they reaffirm the reason why he is on permanent Ignore - Nincompoopism.
Story for & message to the do-gooders like davlaws from a contact* of mine who owns and runs a chain of stores in NZ :
"I have over the years, especially in my initial years, gone out of my way to hire young Pacific Islanders and Maoris, especially in my Auckland & North Island stores. The ones who bothered to apply and I hired tend to be well mannered, eager and motivated - initially.
Within a few months of being hired and getting trained, they start giving me and my other staff stress and problems by being absent from work without good reasons - usually on Mondays & Saturdays. If they turned up to work after being given their third warnings, they were pretty much useless because they were hung over from whatever substances they had consumed the night before - obviously as a result of parties or gatherings.
Reliability & punctuality are absolutely critical in my business as we interact with customers and have to provide a consistently good service & product. I cannot run my business with lovely but unreliable staff so I do not employ them anymore, much as I want to.'
Is it any wonder that many businesses in the service & hospitality industries prefer to employ Asian workers, especially Indians, who not only work hard but are extremely reliable?
Question to the do-gooders : What have you actually done to improve the work ethic of the underprivileged?
Until and unless there is an acknowledgement & acceptance of why there is such a problem with the ‘underprivileged’, nothing is going to change and will get worse with separate justice, health & education systems.
NZ has an increasing wealth gap problem and crying racism without confronting head on & tackling a basic root cause (could be but a perception even) properly is not going to solve the problem. It will only get bigger with separatism.
* Before any of the do-gooders scream 'racism' & all manner of excuses, my contact and his family are staunch practicing Christians with a very high awareness of social responsibility.
Yes when things get tough let some third world people in. Rather than have high turnover, raise the wages.
Yes they may be good christians whatever that means, but they would be the first to complain if taxes went up or house price down. Even though the population is aging so we need to pay both health and super rather soon.
Great result after the misguided gun buyback:
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/cr...AsOcYCiYR2xi7g
Being Christian and having an awareness of social responsibility? It may depend on what you call “social responsibility”. Didn’t many of the Ku Klux Klan, with its burning Christian Cross, profess Christianity? How many Christian denominational wars in Europe were waged without regard for social welfare?
Must be profoundly sobering for you to know that you identify with all the wrong Christians?
There are those who practice Christianity in its simplest form - be good and do good to your fellow beings.
Don’t insult those who do good by referencing them with those who use religion to commit atrocities and evil. You do not know them & the good deeds that they do so you are not qualified to make the nasty comments as you just did.
Shame on you.
Why does being a "staunch practising Christian" somehow make the person less racist? Accepting the Christ sacrifice for one's sins makes a Christian? "Social responsibility" as a way of living has various interpretations.
The range of good to horrific have been committed in the name of religions. That is not to say there have not been or are not outwardly practising Christians who have a deep sense of pastoral or "social" responsibility, according to the standards of the times.
Because the current climate is that anyone who dares to comment frankly on the inadequacies of the brown population of NZ is labelled a ‘racist’.
The example I gave is one of a staunch Christian who tried to do the right Christian thing to improve the lot of the underprivileged but gave up as explained.
Shame on you for referencing the good he tried to do as a Christian with those who commit atrocities using religion. That’s what you did.
You must really care about the Maori and Poly boys the amount of post you write about them, you almost seem obsessed by them which is very unhealthy especially the way the world is moving.
You should be like me , I worry about myself, my own and my networth..its much more positive and fun.
But I'm a liberal capitalist so if you want to be obsessed over brown boys I'm not judging.
He's a bit obsessed with breeding on welfare too.
It's often the christians who pop out kids they can't afford though. It's nice that some are socially responsible for the resulting problem of restricting birth control, contraception and abortion.
Why ?
How would you think David Seymour for example would be treated by media if he were to describe maori in the same way as as the Maori Party co-leader describes "pakeha" ? All hell would break loose. We are heading down an increasingly divisive path which is regrettable and frightening.
A good example of the divisive and racist policies from this Government is the so called "3 waters". I have seldom seen more anger than I am seeing here in Nelson now with that theft. Our great assets are proposed to be dumped into a new authority, covering 21 current councils. This new authority will cover top of the south, Wellington and up the Wairarapa. Nelson would have about 6% of the total assets dumped into that pot. A board of 12 to be appointed of which 6 come from councils, so Nelson unlikely to get any, or in a best case scenario we may get 1. But half the Board, 6 in total, goes to iwi.
How is that not divisive ?
I cannot comment on that as I don't know the co-leader's speech to which you refer, in which was mentioned the "inadequacies of the white population." Have you got a link?
Is "pakeha" a racial term? Does pakeha refer to British NZers? Are Chinese and Indians "brown" ?
Maybe Cindy needs to send more ministers to embrace the Mongrel Mob & Black Power as ideal role models for Maori kids by legitimizing them with visits & koha?[/QUOTE]
Yes that will be Little Red Robbing Hood's next move, appoint a Minister of Gangs, you know, one who can hand out money to rehabilitate these 'poor' people, the one's that the state forces illegal drugs down their throat.
A few more $2.75M handouts.
A bit more activism to increase their benefits.
Meantime their black economy of drug trade will continue unabated & untaxed, with the odd lucky catch by police of a car full of KFC & $100,000 of cash.
Here is a recent article in the Herald which starts with the confrontational "Hey coloniser" https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/indi...MEB2VMZV65OBY/.
She uses the word "pakeha" regularly in interviews, as do many others in interviews and articles. I have no idea what they mean by their constant use of the word "pakeha" !! It is meaningless to me.
Well, if that is 'racist', then the brown race in NZ is doomed to be an inferior race forever because confronting and addressing inadequacies (brawn vs brain) is the first real big step towards progress.
I for one have never had any problem with anyone pointing out my inadequacies at work, especially from those who mean well.
Interesting the self-labelled do-gooders on this site have been noticeably quiet about what they have done to address the inadequate work ethic of the underprivileged?
'Teach a person how to fish vs giving the person a fish.'
Very noticeable in certain brown areas that in supermarkets, there is a profound glaring lack of brown workers. Instead we see plenty of Asians (especially Indians, and increasingly Filipinos) working alongside pakeha. Ever wonder why?
Last night I was speaking with a group of men - pretty diverse. Some tree hugging do gooders like me, some rednecks.
I was sharing my frustration at some of the things that get posted on this and some other forums by people whose deep dislike of the left and whose (IMO) limited understanding of the realities of life at the bottom of the heap make them (again IMO) "part of the problem".
One of the guys aked me to "get specific", and I shared my dillema about whether to respond to Balance's racism and his (probably rhetorical) invitation to "do gooders" to specify what they have actually done to improve the lives of those on the bottom.
"So why not tell him?" - "Cos he gets his jollies from sharing a platform with John Key and Lee Kuan Yew talking about making people accountable and I get mine from sitting in a room with a guy covered in boob tats doing just that in a way that changes his behavior, or sitting in a room with other people who have real ife experience at the "pain face" to develop policy that actually works to change people's lives.
"So why not tell him that?" - "cos he doesn't really want to know - and nor do lotsa the other posters"
"So why do you hang out there?" - "cos I want to (blush) change hearts and minds"
"You still want to change the world don't you?" - "oh **** - that again ! (slightly tearful blush)
"So you hang out on an online forum with a bunch of old white male capitalists and get bent out of shape cos you can't enlighten them? - serves you right"
Then one of the guys really surprised me, cos I disagree with his politics lots. He asked about the attitudes of the young people I know and someone else made acrack that from my age, anyone under 50 is barely old enough to be considered "grown up".
When I thought about it, I realised that most of the people I know under 40 won't have a bar of racism or sexism or homophobia. Their social attitudes are not determined by their underlying political inclinations to nearly the same extent as for older people (me included).
There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!
I came home feeling much better. I may lurk occassionally, but I probably won't post for quite a while.
There you go then.
Just proves the old pale, male, & stale HAVE provided an environment for everyone to flourish, even if they dont realise it.
Goodness knows what will happen when the far left have run out of cheques and overdraft, and the PMS cant be bothered helping anymore...
Great post , thanks for sharing.
"There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!"
But there will always be a few Balances around being divisive , racist, hateful, egos out of control.choosing vehicles where they can be a big fish (piranha) in a small bowl. They often eliminate themselves sooner or later by being banned or becoming repetitive irrelevant or over bleached.... back down their own rabbit hole.
The indoctrinated Cindy devotees are out in force, crying their crocodile tears while putting their hands out for more welfare money, some to the underprivileged but most for themselves & their associated services.
Another $3m for teaching gangs how to peddle drugs safely?
Anything but answer the question of how and what they are doing to improve the work ethics of the underprivileged, mostly brown population.
Seriously, davflaws, do you not think sometimes that your method of helping the underprivileged is actually making their situation worse by sapping their work ethics & desire to get ahead via hard work, education & more education?
One thing for sure, Cindy's policies are designed to breed ever more beneficiaries and hence, dependents & voters for Labour.
Looks like Britain caught on to our Jacinda last year portraying her as "Mary Poppin's"
'Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' called 'Super-Kiwi-socialistic-empire-of-Jacinda'.
They twigged on sooner than most Kiwis.
I am not sure what the “brown race” is and if you are actually referring to culture, race or a type of eugenics now.
As for any superiority or inferiority I think environmental sustainability should be top of the measure. Because the effect current materialism has on Mother Earth, it will see the doom of us all?
Pretty sick series of posts.
Sure, there are Maoris committing crime and being lazy, but so are Pakeha's committing crime and being lazy.
There are as well some intelligent and high performing Maori and so are there some intelligent and high performing Pakeha's
It is not the colour of the skin which selects the good from the bad. Quite sick to cr*p on some people just because their skin colour is different to yours.
There are people who call themselves Christians and they are committing crimes (sometimes even in Jesus name) and some of them are lazy as well. There are however as well some people who call themselves Christians and they are really good and decent people. The same is true for followers of Budha, for Moslems and probably for followers of all religions. Some of the people following any religion are good people and some are bad people.
It is not the religion which selects the good from the bad. Quite inappropriate and wrong to call some people "good" just because they claim to follow some particular religion. They might be good people, but if they are it has nothing to do with their religion. Christians murdered in gods name innocent people throughout the centuries. If any religion makes people good, it is clearly not Christianity.
Humans are humans, and some are good, some are bad, some are dumb and some are lazy. Some of them even commit crimes in the name of the god they made up.
Do you see how dumb and offensive your racist and religious rants are?
So WHY is this government so fixated on being racist?
Because Cindy believes the pakeha vote is split down the middle, and as long as she can capture the brown vote, she & her team of incompetents will stay in power to continue spinning but without having to deliver anything.
That’s why she is bending every which way to please her Maori caucus - giving them anything they want.
She does not care how she bends as future generations of NZers are the ones getting screwed, not her.
Meanwhile, disasters are unfolding in housing, crime, education, immigration and debts are piling up she spends, spends and spends without any accountability & transparency.
Unfortunately, although the delivery problems are very real, there is no realistic alternative government. Come next election, if there is still no alternative, we can suffer a third Labour term. Simple as that. No amount of raging against the machine will change that awkward truth.
To be clear, I'm not leaning towards your 'brown' racist rhetoric which I find disgusting, moreso the litany of issues with failure to deliver. There is no alternative government currently, the opposition are muppets.
Really? Having an “awareness of social responsibility” is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. Although there are Christians with such an awareness. Indeed there are some Christians who act in a socially responsible way too.
Thre are some Christians who follow the approach of liberation theology, in which they seek to liberate those people who are oppressed. Popular perhaps amongst those oppressed by colonisers?
Teach a person how to fish vs give the person a fish.
Would not expect an indoctrinated Cindy devotee to understand. Too busy breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters to actually really care about their well being.
You fool no one, save your own kind.
But, are you okay? You sound rather emotionally stressed?
No surprises that not everyone is comfortable with discussing subjects of race.
After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance in such discussion.
Apart from any other occasion, @ 20 years ago, I was in a Forum with a Maori chap, who was trying to make points of inequality.
After he had his delivery, I asked him; What is it that I have got, that you cant have?
He looked like a stunned opossum in the headlights, but @ 20 others present felt too uncomfortable, and sought to abandon the meeting.
The question never gets adequately answered, and I invite anyone here to do so.
People who discuss racism, are not necessarily racist.
Before shooting messengers who make the bold statements, ask yourself, are they the instigators of a govt determined to go down a separatist aparthied path?
When you answer that, you may point your gun in a different direction.
But if you want to see plenty of racist comments go unchallenged, watch Tv3's The Hui, or to a lesser extent Marae on TV1.
If a European made similar widespread racist comments on a documentary that went to air, there would be an outrage.
If you analyse the statements and excuses made by Maori leaders over many decades, you may well get the impression Maori are an inferior race.
Decades of being in the wrong end of statistics reinforces this.
However, if you meet the average Maori in the street, for want of a better term, all of this is completely irrelevant to them, they just want to get on with their lives, and not be used as a political football, nor do they want it assumed that they all speak with one voice.
Not everyone will embrace my terminology, but everyone is born with a finger and an anus.
Not everyone manages to keep the 2 separated.
If they are happy, so be it.
Colonisation, that's for another time.
It's not political,it's your hatred ,racism, sexism ,offensiveness on a NUMBER of threads.Its all pervasive,it's deeply offensive to kiwis,it's obsessive,it's obnoxious,it's attempted pale stale old school dinosaur male dictatorial ,childish ego out of control ranting.It 8s ruining Sharetrader.
There's a way to ask confronting but perfectly reasonable questions, that engage the audience and invites constructive discussion without recrimination. Then there is the ****ing in your face approach that alienates supporters who don't want to associate with the added rhetoric, then it's left to the devotees to slug it out in the gutter ad infinitum, achieving nothing.
Nothing "reasonable" about making broad racist statements. The word you are looking for is "revolting".
While it is absolutely ok and sensible to point out mistakes and faults of an individuum to give them a chance to improve ... it is just disgusting and wrong to tarnish a whole group of people for the flaws some of their members (as well as many other humans not belonging to this group) might have, particularly if the group members have absolutely no chance to do anything about their membership to this group. People might be able to change e.g. their membership to a religious or e.g. a criminal organisation, but nobody can change their race.
If I say white people are racist, than this would be a racist (as well as wrong) statement and does not help anybody to improve.
If I say some white people are racist, than this is clearly true, but it is as well true for most other races I am aware of. Some humans unfortunately are racists. Still - this hardly helps anybody to improve.
If I say however that you are making racist statements, than this is true (as we all can see above), and it might help you to to learn and improve. Lets hope it does.
I remember times when some of your contributions helped to improve the forum and the dialogue ... any chance we could go back to these times?
The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the new separatist Māori Health Authority.
separatist
/ˈsɛp(ə)rətɪst/
noun
a person who supports the separation of a particular group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...bers-announced
New Health New Zealand and Maori Health Authority board members announced
Bridie Witton
08:39, Sep 23 2021
The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority.
The Government announced it would abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care, in November.
The interim board will members will help create the structure of the new entities with the new system to start on July 1.
The wokester in charge at Te Pūtea Matua in full flow -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1xxzMz1bLo
Well, lets face it - it was a Labour government (Helen Clark) introducing 20 years ago the wasteful and inefficient system of 20 independent district health boards running 20 different health systems in little NZ. An incredible waste of everybody's time, money and resources. Reinventing the wheels 20 times over instead of using our tax payer money for something which would be beneficial.
Our current system is clearly broken - so, we can't blame the government to try to fix it, can we?
However - not holding my breath that the outcome of the new system will be any better, looking at the achievements of the current government in delivering anything. Delivery is unfortunately not one of their strengths ...
In the long term streamlining the delivery of healthcare may be more effective than the current establishment. However is now the right time - during the pandemic where resources could be spent rather on increasing our pitiful ICU capacity and purchasing treatments. Otherwise it seems to be a case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
The bare bones state of the Health system will require NZ to either have a higher vaccination level than many other OECD countries, or to continue imposing lockdowns.
After the reorganisation, there will still need to be a boost in funding. Elective procedures will have fallen further behind, on top of their usual rationing. As Ardern has ruled out a general CGT, that tax burden will fall on income earners and GST. Will a higher trust tax rate, inheritance or estate duty be contemplated?
I do not set the tone - Cindy, her government & the Maori politicians do. Everything they do now is race based and racist to the core.
Latest is that it does not matter if NZ reaches 90% vaccination rate with everyone doing their part - Maoris must be vaccinated to 90% before NZers can enjoy freedom other countries are starting to enjoy with 80% vaccination rate.
So we are all to be held hostage to the backwardness & unwillingness of a minority of Maori to get vaccinated?
What kind of fxxk up racist government have NZ got?
Do not attempt to preach to me, BP - you will lose yourself in confusion every time because you have a racist government in power.
I do agree that a number of current government policies and actions are race based. In some cases this might be justified in trying to remedy some wrongs from the past, sometimes it probably is not - but in any case it is unhelpful.
I agree as well that some of this governments actions clearly demonstrated a mix out of racism and xenophobie, which is highly regrettable.
However - even if our government is behaving racist, this does not justify you or anybody else to make plain racist statements against a group of fellow citizens, does it? If it is the government behaving wrong, than flog them and not some innocent bystanders.
Yes we have a democracy so that will ensure Maori voices are heard without the need for any structural seperation.
Whanau should be listened to along with many other NZers in proportion to their population share.
If anyone thinks that this - 3 Waters - is not about so-called 'co-governance', think again.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne...-says#comments
Government's water reforms 'not right for Christchurch', mayor says
Tina Law
18:50, Sep 22 2021
In a letter sent to Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta last week, Dalziel said if Cabinet was to mandate the reforms there would be a significant loss of trust, especially after Mahuta previously said councils could opt out after consulting with communities.
“There are other ways of bringing about meaningful change and introducing co-governance,” Dalziel wrote.
The council had acted in good faith from the outset, and it expected that good faith to be honoured, she told Mahuta.
Council staff appear to hold similar views to Dalziel.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ers-look-ropey
Suspend the Three Waters reforms. The numbers look ropey
Mike Yardley
05:00, Sep 21 2021
By any measure, public support and confidence in the Government’s sweeping Three Waters reform agenda is tanking.
The multimillion-dollar advertising blitz, which would have you believe that sludge is pouring out of your taps, is emblematic of the Government’s abysmal attempt to spruik the merits of reform. The sales job has been sensationalist, demeaning and misleading.
At last count, only six of our 67 district and city councils have indicated a desire to opt in to the reform programme, relinquishing control of their water infrastructure to four mega-regional entities.
The Government hasn’t indicated any willingness to pull in the reins, despite the towering wall of scepticism it’s up against.
The Waimakariri District Council has been fearlessly assertive in confronting the reform programme, actively canvassing public feedback ahead of its special council meeting, on September 28.
With 95 per cent of Waimakariri residents imploring the council to “opt out” of the reforms, that now looks inevitable.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ter-protesters
Good on the protestors - groundswell anger emerging over Cindy’s racist & fascist attempt to rob the people of NZ from the water resource & infrastructure they have paid for and built up over the decades.
It won't just be the government who sanction access to the unvaccinated, in fact they will probably lag behind businesses that cannot tolerate the potential harm of allowing unvaccinated carriers into their buildings exposing staff or customers.
It's happening now, and will expand exponentially imo. The unvaccinated will unfortunately become a minority excluded from many aspects of society that we all may have previously considered as rights.
As the unvaccinated percentage of the population falls, they become the vector of the disease. Risk on, risk off.
You're missing the point imo, let's break it down:
"You might be right, human nature being what it is, but it's hardly logical" - well yes human nature puts survival as it's top priority, so it's reasonable I think to say the response is entirely logical, to protect oneself and alienate the percentage of the population that are more likely to carry the virus.
"What are the vaccinated worried about again?" - again I think you've missed the point, the vaccinated can still catch the disease, it's just a lot less likely that they will be hospitalised or die, than the unvaccinated. But some of them will catch it and depending on co-morbidity they may or may not get over it, have to go to hospital, or die. Even Vaccinated people are at risk, that's why they don't want a large community of people who breed the virus around them.
" Catching something they have been vaccinated against?" I think I covered that above.
"Oh. that's right, they've been subjected to 18 months of fear." That's where you lose your audience, right there. Surprised though that you didn't conspiracy it with reference to Jacinda. Anyway, the point that I think you're missing is that this disease is worthy of being feared, it kills people, lots of them if it's uncontrolled, which for unvaccinated folks it is.
So putting politics aside if you can, there is a simple and free alternative to exposing oneself to the full potential of this virus, whether or not you end up not getting it, recovering from it, being forever compromised by it, or dying from it, and that's taking the vaccine.
Good friend in Australia lost 3 members of his extended family to Covid this year.
He was not going to get the vaccine, especially AZ which is the only vaccine available there to over 60s.
He not only got vaccinated but is now actively involved in urging & begging people to get the vaccine.
It should not need deaths to wake people up to how deadly Covid is.
Where Cindy is leading us. (Bill Maher is a leftie BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BerWhJAMc9E
Lets be clear,
The vaccinated are rightly worried that Delta will spin off new more lethal variants in the unvaccinated population, variants which may easily find pathways through current vaccines.
The vaccinated are also extremely concerned about the friends, family, & others who vaccines won't work for.
- those on or facing chemo, or living with one of the many immunosuppressed suppressed conditions like multiple sclerosis.
e.g. Cancer can strike anybody at any age & chemo suppresses your immune system meaning your immune system probably won't produce a strong enough antibody reaction to the vaccine to give you protection & you'll be unable to fight an infection.
Many people, children & adults survive cancer these days & go on to lead full rich productive lives and they don't want to die of Covid.
We can help them by getting vaccinated ourselves.
And vaccinated people are worried outbreaks & serious illness in the unvaccinated is going to keep us in repeated lockdowns.
The indisputable fact is if we get too many Kiwis not getting vaccinated, we are going to be stuck with more restrictions, more frequent lockdowns, less freedom.
No one disputes this, a very high vaccination rate is the only way out of this.
You can choose to help.
Those arguments would be a lot more persuasive if the vaccinated couldn't contract Covid and infect others. But they can, and will. Because of this, Covid will mutate amongst ALL populations.
People continually make the wrong assumption that I am anti the jab. I'm not.
I'm anti the fear and control propaganda campaign.
I'm anti the eagerness to strip us of civil Liberties to cover government incompetency in preparing the health system.
I'm anti a Domestic Passport that once in use will never be gotten rid of.
I'm anti our government giving 105 million in bribes to the media to ensure a soft ride.
There is no need to be anti-jab to be anti domestic Passport. Everyone should be scared witless by what our government is proposing. A government that has shown it is incapable of delivering a pizza finds it easier to strip its citizens of Civil Liberties than actually do its job.
There used to be a popular quote amongst defenders of democracy, it went something like...."I don't agree with what you say. but I will defend your right to say it".