Dont you mean,
Jesse Livermore - Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator
Printable View
Well officially it is Lefevre. But IIRC after the publication Livermore said that he wrote it and Lefevre edited it, which makes sense since given the way it is written, it would be far easier for the actual person to write it like that than some third party.
Gold stocks will probably be hit for 6 next week, with the fallout from the Goldman Sachs charges. Sounds all a bit tenuous, with Paulson being a big holder of golds ETFs and shares such as Anglo Gold. A few more Silver Lake (SLR) or Papillon (PIR) could be on my shopping list come Monday, if they take a hit.
Right makes sense will setup a watchlist see how your picks go over the next 6months------
Gold down dollar up
"Jim Sinclair's Commentary
If you think that Goldman's problems are not shared by the entire derivative market, you are bonkers.
If you see the Goldman situation as negative to gold you are a total fool.
If you see the Goldman situation as being bullish to the dollar, you are hopeless."
At http://jsmineset.com
looking forward to seeing this movie
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwGgcCdNkU
Won't be long before you'll be using that 50kgs of silver of yours as an anchor JB.
On Monday NAV = Nil Asset Value and NAVO = Net Asset Value Zero. LOL
Note the bit that says "out of riskier assets like gold and into safer assets like the USD".
Has the bell rung?
Goldman Sachs Sinks Gold Prices
By Alix Steel 04/16/10 - 03:06 PM EDT
.
Add CommentStock quotes in this article: ABX , NEM , KGC , GG , AUY , FCX , GLD NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Gold prices Friday were dropping steeply as investors traded out of riskier assets like gold and into the U.S. dollar.
Gold Prices Nose Dive
Barrick Gold Corporation| ABX DOWNKinross Gold Corporation| KGC DOWNSPDR Gold| GLD DOWNGold for June delivery was slipping $22.10 to $1,138.20 an ounce at the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The gold price Friday has traded as high as $1,161.20 and $1,130 after settling just above $1,160 on Thursday. The U.S. dollar index was adding 0.44% to $80.79 as the euro fell 0.67% against the dollar. The spot gold price Friday was falling over $20, according to Kitco's gold index.
The news that the SEC charged Goldman Sachs with fraud was killing gold prices as investors rotated out of riskier commodities and into safer assets like the U.S. dollar. The gold price had been finding support around $1,150 an ounce after better-than-expected earnings from big U.S. companies. But gold couldn't hold that level and is now retesting the $1,135 area as momentum buying erodes.
A bit of argy bargy on CNBC regarding the Goldman situation:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnbc-gues...goldman-sachs/
If you were to hold gold. Would you physically own it or own it through and ETF?
Neither, owning physical gold is very risky and owning ETF's is extremely risky.
I'll bet there's some very scared punters out there at the moment.
I wonder how many of them will have their finger hovering over the sell button at the open on Monday?
Or maybe the "buy US Dollar" button.
If you check other websites it's someone elses fault. "The usual mob" hammering gold. "Happened on a Friday". "Audit Fort Knox". LOL
Conspiracy theorists heaven.
"A false bull market in gold."
As of the end of 2009, Paulson & Co. was the largest institutional holder of the SPDR Gold Trust (GLD)--the world's largest physically backed gold exchange-traded fund--with 31.5 million shares valued at $3.38 billion.
Revelations of the hedge fund's involvement in the dispute between Goldman Sachs and the SEC raise questions about a factor that's helped drive gold to record-high prices above $1,200 an ounce--Paulson's high-profile bets.
"The bull market might be a false bull market in gold," said Keith Springer, president of Capital Financial Advisory Services in Sacramento, Calif.
Fraud? manipulation? In the gold market? I don't believe it, I'm scandalized, it's outrageous I say!
Any guesses what the POG will be 7 days hence?
My guess $850
[QUOTE=Skol;301275]Won't be long before you'll be using that 50kgs of silver of yours as an anchor JB.
On Monday NAV = Nil Asset Value and NAVO = Net Asset Value Zero. LOL
Note the bit that says "out of riskier assets like gold and into safer assets like the USD".
-You don't really have a clue or any understanding of real assets do ya SKOL--silver doesn't grow in the ground, it isn't man made, it's not even easy to find
It's rare and that's why like GOLD,PLAT it's classed as a precious metal...
Yet you can buy it for $30-$34oz
Has the bell rung? For the USD not yet back it will soon
Yeah yeah don't get your hopes up SKOL --NAV sell their gold in AUD--If you precious USD increase in value the AUD gold price will rise
As for 850 gold LOL
I don't think the USD will be "safer"
From all the info I've been reading lately, in a depression the safest currencies/banks are in Switzerland, Singapore, NZ and Australia.
It doesn't matter what small punters do, it's what the institutions do and my gut feeling is they will unload anything to do with gold.
Doesn't matter if you lose your own money but it matters a lot if it's someone elses.
An Overdue Technical Correction
Typically, when market confidence is shaken by events such as the SEC Goldman suit, it should spell bullish for gold -- an independent store of value. However, even before the Goldman news, gold, which rallied to a four-month high of $1,170.70 on April 12, was poised for a technical correction. So, the Goldman news most likely just triggered an exit opportunity for short-term traders to lock in profits from recent gains.
http://www.benzinga.com/229057/gold-...-goldman-sachs
I will not be averaging down on this one HC.
If history's anything to go by gold will descend to its CPI adjusted level.
Wow isn't gold just crashing It's only a matter of time to the mass of world investor pick-up on the single best safest investment GOLD for the rich SILVER for the common man
while it's still easy available in any size--As David Morgan recently said in a interview anyone of the many large institutions that what to take a real physical position in SILVER of even 20% of their funds available would drive the price so far north as they would be buying 70%-80% of available Above ground stockpiles which took many years of hard high cost to sales mining to produce..
Anyone that thinks holding paper USD long term hasn't a clue
Early days yet JB but you can't have missed the fact that the USD has strengthened half a cent today.
Till the next day the USD is in huge trouble it's not if but when it falls to new all time lows an in time to 0
fact-there's only 2 pure silver miners in the world that make any profit (from many doz producers) -so basically you can buy it for round cost how can it fall below cost?
Never in the history of modern man has Gold or silver fell to nil value -many Fiat currency's have become worthless in the history
The Song Dynasty in China was the first to issue true paper money, Jiaozi, around the 10th century C.E. Although the notes were valued at a certain exchange rate for gold, silver, or silk, conversion was never allowed in practice. The notes were initially to be redeemed after three year's service, to be replaced by new notes for a 3% service charge, but, as more of them were printed without notes being retired, inflation became evident. The government made several attempts to support the paper by demanding taxes partly in currency and making other laws, but the damage had been done, and the notes fell out of favour
Fiat Money -More Recent Times
In recent times, fiat failures have become more common occurrences. For the sake of time, I won’t go into extensive details of all these examples of paper money failures, because there are SO many. But here you have it:
In 1932, Argentina had the eighth largest economy in the world before its currency collapsed. In 1992, Finland, Italy, and Norway had currency shocks that spread through Europe.
In 1994, Mexico went through the infamous “Tequila Hangover,” which sent the peso tumbling and spread economic hardships throughout Latin America.
In 1997, the Thai baht fell through the floor and the effects spread to Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and South Korea.
The Russian ruble was not the currency you wanted your investments denominated in in 1998, after its devaluation brought on economic recession. In the early 21st century, we have seen the Turkish lira experience strokes of hyperinflation similar to that of the mark of Weimar Germany.
In present times, we have Zimbabwe, which was once considered the breadbasket of Africa and was one of the wealthiest countries on the continent. Now Mugabe’s attempts at price controls, combined with hyperinflation, have the nation unable to supply the most basic essentials such as bread and clean water
Nice history lesson JB but in 1994 and 1997 when these crises took place the gold price was between $300 and $400 and actually descended between those dates.
I expect the POG to revert to the mean and stay there until the next generation decide there's going to be hyperinflation and a USD crisis.
Today when I got up, the first thing I saw on TV while I was half a sleep was an Ad about some people setting up little stalls in supermarkets asking people to sell them their gold. (physical gold).
You know, ear rings, rings, chains, whatever.
Not exactly sure what they were called, something like We Buy Your Gold or there abouts.
Now what does this tell me, selling gold is one thing ie: retailers, markets etc etc, but when people setup companies just to get the public to sell their physical gold then to me that obviously means the price will rebound and go "Higher" IMO.
1 ton of recycled cellphones = 3.5kg .999 silver for ever 3 ton 200 grams of gold
how many cellphones have you had I've had over 7 (lost a few)
The yanks throw out over 3 million tons of electronic goods per year-very little is recycled
I expect the POG to revert to the mean and stay there until the next generation decide there's going to be hyperinflation and a USD crisis.
-The next generation will look back on these times as the reason why Fiat money system failed yet again an on how stupid investors had been not to have loaded up on the most precious of metals while they traded at near cost to replace with new mines of production-just like this generation looks back on the cost of fuel esp in the US when they paid what 10c litre etc
From the HSBC gold analyst:
"Further bullion liquidation likely as risk sentiment may drop more in the wake of the Goldman news. In the near term, we expect the developments surrounding Goldman to overshadow all other issues that previously dominated gold trading. Near-term market sentiment looks bearish, and further losses are likely, in our opinion."
Well if there's actually any real gold going come up for sale from the Fiasco watch the Large USD debt holders come out keen to take up any cheap sales going ,even though the Goldmans beat up looks more of a chest beating by the Obama admin to show that even though his adim- is full of ex-Goldman staff an the fact his run for president was well funded by the Goldmans,JP Morgan etc he is out to inforce all this bad wall streeters LOL nothing much will come of this it would have been well planned in advance...
---the investigators will come up with what their told to come up with...
GOLDMAN SACHS, the world’s biggest investment bank that is now assailed by accusations of fraud, is poised to reignite controversy over bankers’ bonuses by paying its staff more than £3.5 billion for just three months’ work.
The bumper payouts will equate to about £110,000 a head for the firm’s 32,500 employees worldwide, with a handful of top traders expected to be in line for multi-million-pound bonuses.
Close to £600m is expected to be paid to the group’s 5,500 London-based staff for the first three months of this year. This is on a par with their remuneration in 2007, the last year of the boom.
The revelation of the enormous pay deals comes as Goldman prepares for a legal battle with the US government. The group was sued on Friday by the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Wall Street regulator, over claims it defrauded investors of $1 billion. Goldman denies the charges.
Related Links
FSA probe into Goldman ‘fraud’
Is this God’s dirty work?
Fabrice Tourre, 31, a vice-president at the bank who works in its London office, is also being sued for allegedly helping to create a mortgage-backed product doomed to fail because it was deliberately filled with risky loans to poor people.
Royal Bank of Scotland, which is 84% owned by the UK taxpayer, appears to have been one of the biggest losers from the alleged fraud. The bank is this weekend considering legal action against Goldman.
The charges relate to a mortgage bond issued by the bank. The American regulators claim Goldman designed the bond so it would drop in value.
Goldman Sachs last year paid £10 billion in bonuses
worth a read so many scandals in government, banking and financial institutions
http://adask.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/taking-delivery/
I've pulled up a chart of Gold ETF and it's been in a downtrend since November.
really not like the GOLD price then which is looking very bullish currently up 1137 will be hitting a new high before the years out
Hi Skol,
One could argue that down trend ended at the end of March and Gold has been in an uptrend since early Feb.
Short term I dunno. The recent double top looks ominous though Mondays ( yesterday ) candle looks positive for a possible turn up.
Whats the price right now?
Here's something from Noriel Roubini who has foreseen several economic crises in the past. Note the comment about 'herd behaviour'.
Better get your guns, canned food and head for the log cabin. LOL
This is from the end of 2009, so the bubble is now bigger.
The Gold Bubble and the Gold Bugs
Nouriel Roubini
NEW YORK – Gold prices have been rising sharply, breaching the $1,000 barrier and in recent weeks rising towards $1,200 an ounce and above. Today’s “gold bugs” argue that the price could top $2,000. But the recent price surge looks suspiciously like a bubble, with the increase only partly justified by economic fundamentals.
Gold prices rise sharply only in two situations: when inflation is high and rising, gold becomes a hedge against inflation; and when there is a risk of a near depression and investors fear for the security of their bank deposits, gold becomes a safe haven.
The last two years fit this pattern. Gold prices started to rise sharply in the first half of 2008, when emerging markets were overheating, commodity prices were rising, and there was concern about rising inflation in high-growth emerging markets. Even that rise was partly a bubble, which collapsed in the second half of 2008, when – after oil reached $145, killing global growth –the world economy fell into recession. As concerns about deflation replaced fear of inflation, gold prices started to fall with the correction in commodity prices.
The second price spike occurred when Lehman Brothers collapsed, leaving investors scared about the safety of their financial assets – including bank deposits. That scare was contained when the G-7 committed to increase guarantees of bank deposits and to backstop the financial system. With panic subsiding towards the end of 2008, gold prices resumed their downward movement. By that time, with the global economy spinning into near-depression, commercial and industrial gold use, and even luxury demand, took a further dive.
Gold rose above $1,000 again in February-March 2009, when it looked like most of the financial system in the United States and Europe might be near insolvency, and that many governments could not guarantee deposits and backstop the financial system, because banks that were too big to fail were also too big to be saved.
That panic subsided – and gold prices started to drift down again – after US banks were subjected to “stress tests,” America’s Troubled Asset Relief Program further backstopped the financial system by removing bad assets from banks’ balance sheets, and the global economy gradually bottomed out.
So, with no near-term risk of inflation or depression, why have gold prices started to rise sharply again in the last few months?
There are several reasons why gold prices are rising, but they suggest a gradual rise with significant risks of a downward correction, rather than a rapid rise towards $2,000, as today’s gold bugs claim.
First, while we are still in a world of global deflation, large, monetized fiscal deficits are fueling concerns over medium-term inflation. Second, a massive wave of liquidity, via easy monetary policy, is chasing assets, including commodities, which may eventually stoke inflation further. Third, dollar-funded carry trades are pushing the US dollar sharply down, and there is an inverse relation between the value of the dollar and the dollar price of commodities: the lower the dollar, the higher the dollar price of oil, energy, and other commodities – including gold.
Fourth, the global supply of gold – both existing and newly produced – is limited, and demand is rising faster than it can be met. Some of this demand is coming from central banks, such as those of India, China, and South Korea. And some of it is coming from private investors, who are using gold as a hedge against what remain low-probability “tail” risks (high inflation and another near-depression caused by a double-dip recession). Indeed, investors increasingly want to hedge against such risks early on. Given the inelastic supply of gold, even a small shift in the portfolios of central banks and private investors towards gold increases its price significantly.
Finally, sovereign risk is rising – consider the troubles faced by investors in Dubai, Greece, and other emerging markets and advanced economies. This has revived concerns that governments may be unable to backstop a too-big-to-save financial system.
But, since gold has no intrinsic value, there are significant risks of a downward correction. Eventually, central banks will need to exit quantitative easing and zero-interest rates, putting downward pressure on risky assets, including commodities. Or the global recovery may turn out to be fragile and anemic, leading to a rise in bearish sentiment on commodities – and in bullishness about the US dollar.
Another downside risk is that the dollar-funded carry trade may unravel, crashing the global asset bubble that it, together with the wave of monetary liquidity, has caused. And, since the carry trade and the wave of liquidity are causing a global asset bubble, some of gold’s recent rise is also bubble-driven, with herding behavior and “momentum trading” by investors pushing gold higher and higher. But all bubbles eventually burst. The bigger the bubble, the greater the collapse.
The recent rise in gold prices is only partially justified by fundamentals. Nor is it clear why investors should stock up on gold if the global economy dips into recession again and concerns about a near depression and rampant deflation rise sharply. If you truly fear a global economic meltdown, you should stock up on guns, canned food, and other commodities that you can actually use in your log cabin.
Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2009.
www.project-syndicate.org
For a podcast of this commentary in English, please use this link: http://media.blubrry.com/ps/media.li.../roubini20.mp3
You might also like to read
Well you talk the talk SKOL how about walking the walk an short selling some Gold stocks ,or take some Bear Warrants ,futures etc
Nope, don't do that stuff, just don't own it. If the POO is anything to go by the smart money will exit first showing a fall in share and ETF prices etc., leaving the suckers owning physical gold and krugerrands.
Who knows what will happen, but the bigger the boom the bigger the bust.
The price of gold is going up because _ _ _ the price of gold is going up.
You only have to look at Hot Copper to see the conspiracy mentality, Fort Knox is empty, unseen forces are manipulating the gold price, Geithner knows thing the goldbugs don't and it's his fault the POG isn't through the roof, etc. It's absurd.
Why is gold considered an investment? Is it just because it holds its value against inflation?
It pays no dividend or rent so isn't it just gambling?
It's ultimate money hard currency accepted worldwide as money for many Centuries has a will aways have value that increases on the increase of papers of tender of exhange which only causes inflation you can go to your local bank an if your a sound investment it will create money for you at interest
-If say you wanted to buy some rare GOLD now that has to be explored for then feasibility studied with masses of money raised to pay all though the many years of painstaking work to hopefully one day produce gold for a profit which alot of times isn't all the much -One of the world's largest Gold miners think it was GOLD FIELDS- MD stated in a forward report of future gold production stated if his company had to go out again looking to replace their 50moz+ resource today he believe it would cost well north of $1000 an even as high as $1500poz in costs to replace in Exploration,Fes study ,etc etc
An thats why we will see more NCM LGL takeovers over the next 5yrs+ t
Good post JBMurc, gold strength has been increasing this week:
http://www.kitco.com/images/live/gold.gif
Why do all the "die hard" gold investors prefer to buy actual gold and silver as opposed to an ETF. I've compared the spot price of actual gold in $AUS and then the GOLD etf price in $ASD and they are roughly the same. It saves the hassle of holding it, physically buying it with the margins involved, etc.
Why not just pay $30 odd dollars to buy the share and then another $30 odd to sell it almost instantly without the mucking around?
I'm curious to know this question.
If it's the same price how does it differ?
ETF will be so many $ per kg and the physicaly gold will also be so many $ per kg?
Yes, but the ETF relies on you being able to enforce it.
Fine in a normal situation. If the exchange system breaks down or the provider doesnt have the gold to deliver to you, then you're screwed.
Put it this way - if there was a nuclear war, how useful do you think your ETF would be?
But why would they deliver the gold to me? I'm just buying a share like I would in any share on the market. If telecom went bust they wouldn't send me a desk chair from their office.
Well if there was nuclear war then my ETF dollar amount in $NZD would be just as much as your physical gold in $NZD.
Can you please clarify in SIMPLE words and your way of thinking? I'm very confused. Thanks.
Ahh right. I see now. Thanks for clarifying that.
How come the ETF wouldn't own all the gold. ie. If they issued $1,000,000 shares at $1 each. They would have $1,000,000 dollars. They buy $1,000,000 of gold.
Why would they not hold $1,000,000 of gold and why would they ever need to sell it? Aren't the buyers on the stock exhcange just buying off each other? They don't need to pay out dividends or anything and their management fee (I think it's 0.4% p/a) should cover the security, rent, electricity, wages, etc of the staff where they hold it.
Guys all good points, In the 1980's Ray Smith I think ran a outfit called Goldcorp that sold lots of "investors" the same amount of gold on condition that he stored it in safe keeping for them, only problem was dozens and dozens of people bought the same piece of gold!!!
In theory yes they do own the gold.
But you should always factor in the possibility of fraud or "run on the ETF". You dont know if they are running leverage or what - it is regulated but you never know.
And as for the nuclear war comment, most people see gold as a safe haven asset. From that point of view you want to be able to stash it under the bed. Redeeming your gold ETF would be impossible in a nuclear war because all the xchanges would be piles of rubble. But your gold in the closet would still be there.
Why wouldn't they own the same amount of gold in $ terms as the amount of shares that they issued?
Where did the rest of the money go. And how sure are you that this is what is happening with the ASX commodity ETF's?
So if you buy physical gold and you want to get out of the market quickly. Who do you sell it to? Are there gauranteed buyers to get out of the market quickly.
This is the only benefit of the ETF that I'm afraid physically holding it doesn't have.
Also is there any real difference in 1kg bars or small coins other than in terms of weight/price.
Hey ENP
You're wasting your time trying to fathom the dudes who horde gold or silver. I've never worked it out. Gold has no intrinsic value, it costs to store it, it can be stolen, burned, there's no interest on it and you can't eat it.
In the event of some catastrophe no one would want it anyway, the items of value then would be things you could use like cows, sheep, petrol, clothing etc., things that would be useful.
I'm just trying to get educated on these things as I like to know.
I've just been doing some research and it seems there isn't any real places to both buy and sell apart from trade me/sella and some mints that have rip off prices.
There are various ways to own physical gold but lots of people seem to like coins. Depending on the actual type of coin there is a premium you have pay, but you're right there's no liquidity and to sell it you can put it on Trademe and let people know you've got it or sell it through a dealer which means getting in the car and driving there.
Selling through a dealer. So when you go there, they have no choice but to buy it or can they turn you down?
And they must take their commission on top of it when you sell it, i.e. you won't get the spot price will you?
Hey JB,
Just watching a TA guy on CNBC says gold weakness is on the cards and is going to retest lows, around $1045. I can taste that red wine already.
LOL it a long way yet where not even half-way I see you've been on HC Skol getting more friends on Gold
As for holding it personal I wouldn't hold gold bullion not that I don't like it just silver bullion is so much better and has such a bigger future
there are more patents registered worldwide each year for new uses of silver than for all other metals combined
Silver is the future metal man-kind will need more an more of yet it's going the first major metal element to be total used up land based reserves
Yea but who do you sell it to when you want to get rid of it?
I've only sold a 1kg an some smaller amounts on trade-me got the going rate at the time as Trade-me is NZ current free market place for Bullion you should check it out
As for larger sales most of the major sellers also buy of course not expect to get much better than spot price to 10% below it all depend on demand I'm believe the demand esp in silver will make it easy to sell many years into the future as worldwide demand outstrips production by round 200moz per ann.
What other ways are there to prodtect against inflation/hyper inflation/weakening dollar other than gold/silver?
I can't exactly put barrells of oil or tanks of natural gas under my bed.
Only you skol... only you could talk about not holding any airline stocks then a couple days later start bragging about how one airline stock is rising... VBA back to where it began the year, and significantly less than where it was just one month ago... Who cares mate
I bought VBA a couple of days ago. Have cash because the market's too high. AIR's a good one too by the way. LOL
If you have a look at tricha's blow up in your face airline thread you will see quite clearly that I sold VBA and intended to buy them back when the price dropped.
But this is the gold thread, right?
No Skol, but tell you what, Ive already a small position in NAV though VBA sure did have a nice bounce off support and does seem set to run so I think I may just take you up on that one Skol, lets see how global markets pan out though and what tormorrow brings.
Actually, on my 5 minute Intraday its showing convergence of the MA's and should they present favourably tomorrow then I could very well be a holder. (ps: for maybe an hour? lol)
Till then~!
Dunno about that Lego. I reckon all you have is talking piece for the mantle or the makings of some very pretty fishing sinkers.
One can hardly carry it around any more than one can shave off a slither to buy some milk and fags.
One would be far better off with a back yard full of Veg, a safe full of guns and a water tank full of gasoline if the **** really did hit the fan.
Its all about being diverse for some reason some people think cause you can't eat it ,burn it etc it will become worthless wake-up an stop repeating the same anti-PGM rubbish !!!
do some history study has their been any time in the history of modern man than gold has been worthless ,Dark ages,fall of rome,wars
It hasn't been accepted for a medium of exchange an a great store of wealth for thousands of years if it didn't have value
I'll be more than happy if someone out their will give me silver or gold bullion for my vegies LOL I'm planning on making a very large produce garden for next summer -----If the world did fall into some kind of doomsday anti paper exchange any item will be barted ,food,land,services etc
Gold silver etc would take head place in many exchanges for the many reasons stated
Faber comments:
"Gold is holding steady as we write, around $1,137. If someone is rich, they should buy a ton every month, Faber says." Paper money (will go) down relative to precious metals. So in that environment, I think you... should all accumulate some gold."
Fabers outlook for the paper money known as the dollar goes like this: As far as the eye can see, interest rates under Bernanke will stay at zero and below." Below? He points to the new Fed vice chairwoman, "Janet Yellen, another totally ignorant economist removed from any reality, said herself six months ago, if I could implement interest rates below zero, I would do it. So now you know what the policy in the U.S. will be.
Faber also has a few things to say about the relentless swirl of rumors about how shadowy powers are suppressing the gold price. Namely, that if the rumors are true, thats just one more argument to accumulate metal.
"If you have manipulation to keep the price down, it eventually goes ballistic. So all the people that are bitching about the manipulation of silver and gold should be happy that it is manipulated, because it still gives them an opportunity to buy it at a depressed price.
Geeze JB. I promise to never repent again. :D
Thats pretty condecending and agressive. Why do some here become aggravated when confronted with a 2nd opinion. Theres really no need for it nor is there any need for all the heart and ego on sleeve stuff.
It was a passing flippant comment not a personal attack.
nor should you see it as a personal attack Strat the majority of people of the western world would agree with you without any facts too back their view..thats what drives me nuts I've read the same comment a hundred times its like old wifes tale that one reads an takes for fact------If the world's currency's exchanges lost all value real gold & silver would be worthless medium of exchange---
If that was the case it would be the first time in modern man history it did.
Gold up $8 to a 2010 high of $1,170....
I know that the USA has been essentially creating money out of thin air but has the NZ government too?
Zimbabwe had hyper inflation in recent years but that didn't cause our paper money to become worthless however. With 6 month TD's at 5% it's not a bad deal.
Look forward to your thoughts.
ENP
Gold is up but_ _ _
Bernanke says interest rates will stay low for an extended period;
The XGD is level pegging;
The USD is up;
No hyperinflation;
So why is gold going up?
Lots of gullible punters chasing a finite amount of gold-thats why.
I was reading in the WSJ this morning that some big investment houses are parking cash in gold at the moment.
Has it occurred to you guys that they might be pushing gold higher then drop it like a hot brick?
Why did the gold price essentially not change in value from 1982-2003?
That's 21 years and the price was roughly the same. Over that 20 years, how much did inflation change? How much more money did the Federal Reserve/USA print?
I don't understand why the gold price has jumped so much since 2003 because there was inflation between 1982 and 2003 not just the last 7 years.
Explain please.
It's a bit like the '87 sharemarket crash, once bitten twice shy. So many suckers got their fingers burnt in the 1980 gold crash that it has taken 30 years for a new breed of suckers to buy the hyperinflation/worthless USD story.
JB Murc will have another explanation though.
Everybody has a theory ENP.
Here is mine, basically its a combination of psychology and definition of real and surreal.
You see, back then in the time of the "enter the computer main stage" things were alot more simple, honest (compared to these days) and a company seemed to be a company.
These days, or building up to these day, Gold is something that "still" remains real, it was real before, it was real not so long ago, and it is very real now.
As the world seems to replace a new technological phone or computer, TV, whatever consumable every 3 months, it has to continually compete and have prices reflect the time of life of that product. As in to make it, sell it fast and then super-seed it, or its a loser. The market, people and the psychology gets thrown into the waiste paper basket.
Now Gold on the other hand IMO demonstrates that it has put an emphasis on psychology to worth, value, something that will last and wont just go away.
With regards to the price of it, well the cost of getting it becomes more, in line with a current world psychology, IMO
I had a punch line in my head to finish on but since I have written the above, I have forgotten it...LOL
Anyway, if I remember I will edit this, but thats just another one of the million theories out there. :P
Expected inflation
Its all about expected inflation, isnt it?
Inflation was overpredicted in 1980 (as evidenced by gold price staying flat for so long). Now, people think inflation will return with a vengence. Whether it will or not is upto the individuals opinions. Gold is believed to be a store of value, therefore should move with relative pricing of goods, ie inflation.
Productive use?
Gold may have been worth something back in the day, but its productive use is very limited. (One productive thing I can think of is:Didnt they use gold as a core for Hiroshima bomb?) But because its not overly productive, and just a 'believe,' I believe we will slowly move away from gold, as evidenced by its peak back in 1500's and never really recovering.
Gold standard vs Current Monetary system
A memorable quote that I heard, here on sharetrader I think was "why would you want the money supply controlled by geological factors?"
Thats basically what would happen if we were to bring gold in as the standard. The current monetary system is much better than the gold standard for this reason alone. The only thing holding back the monetary system we have now is its inequality thats it created...it needs a framework that doesnt provide distortions. Distortions are evident given the rapid rise in debt and the passing on of this debt to the next generation (along with plenty more, but to me this is a main concern).
A few other things to consider are:
-Markets are highly inefficient in the short term (momentum effect, herd mentality etc)
-Markets are highly efficient in the long term (mean reversion to fundamentals etc)
Still got the NAVs trackers?
Where I am at the moment there's an ad on TV that should help you out.
If you call 1-800-296-1428 there's a prayer for you. in addition there's some miracle spring water and an annointed faith tool. (whatever that is)
Wonderful things happen apparently, gets people out of debt, money turns up in the mail etc.
gold is breaking out on the upside - the bubble continues.... even George Soros said if you see a bubble buy it.
It's got a few years to run yet IMHO funny how the most negative towards gold silver have been saying the same thing over an over again an will continue too while Gold increasing further reminds me of when OIL when through $40bbl so many investors said it was in a bubble an no way could it go any higher as the world markets would crash an burn now it's $80bbl+ an no one really cares an in fact oil producers need it that high to make enough profits for the increasing exploration bills same will happen to gold at $2000oz yet I do think it will spike higher for a time
Sure do Skol, they hold assets and are about to generate revenues well in excess of their market cap, which is always a good thing (regardless of what they actually produce) - Not sure why you've sent me some religious advice, you should know by now that I operate on fact/evidence only
Hi,
Can someone explain to me why gold/silver prices crashed about 30-50% in 2008? That's in USD.
Im understand why in NZD it crashed in 2009 due to the exchange rate of the USD being very strong in early 2009 but not sure why the USD crash in 2008?
Thanks.
ENP
everyone was deleveraging , so all assets get sold. in some ways gold but especially silver operate like other assets or commodities. yes gold has an air of quality that can make it rise during a flight to safety fearful period but when debt must be repaid gold can be sold like any other security. silver seems to operate even more than gold as as an industrial commodity in that if the economy shrinks less of it will be used so the price falls.
in that sense there is some correlation between the precious metals and the stock markets.
Oh ok. Thanks.
So much for it being a "safe haven" when the stock market is going down then? Guess it goes back to what I've read before that If you have $10,000 of gold coins and you need to put food on your families table because you lost your job, the gold has to go doesn't it?
U r so right Skol money is on the way out, actually being a gambling man, I bought back into a gold stock last week.
I based it on the concept everything is not right in the world and it's a little like life insurance, except if it happens, you might get to enjoy the windfill. Then I read this and it reinforces it, gold might >>>>>
How Gold Could Climb to $6,500/oz
By Greg McCoach | Thursday, April 29th, 2010
As I travel around to different parts of the world, one of the questions I keep hearing lately and with a sense of urgency is this:
What should I do with my money?
It seems a new block of investors has suddenly realized — and are worried — that they could lose purchasing power of their savings by keeping their money in banks or having invested in T-bills offering zero or negative return.
And it seems the options for investors in a world fiat currency nightmare are diminishing quickly; one can hear the concern in their voices.
Where can one turn for safety? they ask, knowing little or nothing related to the history of fiat currencies...
I bought back into a gold stock last week.
Which goldie T?