Thanks couta1, will look into it.
Anyone have any idea on when I will receive confirmation of the number of shares I have been allocated? Will I need to wait until the allotment date?
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Thanks couta1, will look into it.
Anyone have any idea on when I will receive confirmation of the number of shares I have been allocated? Will I need to wait until the allotment date?
There is internal scaling and external scaling. Brokers have been allocated shares and they can allocate them as they see fit - ASB are saying they are 50% scaled. The allocation they get can now be scaled by 20%.
DB appears to have taken a different approach and only allocated those that it has, not needing to scale internally so they are only subject to the external 20 scaling.
Gidday
I rang them and asked how many shares they allocated to me. I had a firm order with them.
Cheers
Yes it has caused me a lot of frustration, you spend a lot of time researching these IPO,s so you can make a purchase of shares to the qty your analysis says is appropriate.
( For my style of investing I need a minimum amount of shares to make it worthwhile cause im sacraficing other opportunities for the investment )
So I have to weigh up. is knowing a definite quantity of shares I can purchase from an existing investment better than hoping I can get a required qty of shares in an IPO
Broker Firm Offer:
New*Zealand
Applicants who
are offered a firm
allocation by an NZX
Firm or a selected
trading bank
The minimum
Application
amount is
$1,000. Your
broker will
inform you
of your firm
allocation.
It will be a matter for the NZX Firm or selected
trading bank to decide how they make allocations
amongst their eligible retail clients and whether your
Application will be scaled back.
If the Crown exercises its right to scale back Broker
Firm Offer allocations following the close of the
General Offer, retail client Applications under
the Broker Firm Offer will be scaled back at the
Crown’s discretion. There is no minimum guaranteed
allocation under the Broker Firm Offer. Accordingly,
final individual allocations under the Broker Firm
Offer may be lower than the minimum Application
amount of $1,000.
But the broker firm allocations can only be scaled back by a maximum of 20%.
This is how I understand it.
1. Everyone told their broker how many they wanted.
2. Broker aggregated these and applied for and got an allocation
3.Broker allocated these (at their discretion) to individual clients as a firm allocation. ( which was in some cases, 30% or less than what was asked for)
4. After the general offer closes, the government may scale this firm allocation by a maximum of 20%
I've also read the 20% scaling by govt from ANZ page on the genesis IPO.
From http://www.anzshareandbondtrading.co...il.aspx?id=362, 4th paragraph, section 4.Quote:
The Crown will be retaining the right to scale back applications in the Broker Firm Offer on a fixed percentage basis, by up to 20%. Scaling of Broker Firm Offer applications, if required, will be determined after the issue closes but before listing.
interesting, just searched the Investment Stmt and Prospectus and there is no mention of the 20% limit - surely this would have to be disclosed? Maybe that was 'indicative' and the brokers are touting it as factual ?
Well i got nothing, i applied the other day through DB website click on banner and say how much you want etc didnt hear anything back so rang them and they said i should have applied on the phone as they arent giving out any if you didnt ring and ask. What a crock that is, why have it online to apply if they going to ignore it. Have probably spent couple of thousand in brokers fees with DB over the year and this is what they do.
A fair question PT. I need to explain some more background here to give a full answer.
'Huntly' is probably better described as 'a collection of power stations operating on one site' rather than 'a power station'. Originally Huntly consisted of four what is termed "Rankine Units" rated at 250MW each and can operate on natural gas or coal. These were commissioned over the 1982 to 1985 period. As of today only two of these original units are operational. Number four has been fully decommissioned. Number three was put into storage at the end of 2013.
In 2007 what is termed 'Unit 5' a 400MW unit was commissioned at Huntly. This is a combined gas cycle gas turbine that only runs on natural gas. There is also a much smaller 50.8MW 'Unit 6' commissioned in 2004 that runs on gas and diesel.
There are two other gas powered stations well sited to serve the Auckland market. These are "Otahuhu B", commissioned in 1999 and owned by Contact Energy, with a total generating capacity of 380MW and "Southdown", commissioned in 1996 and owned by Mighty River Power with a total generatinng capacity of 175MW.
When I said "if Huntly had to close", I more correctly should have said "If part of Huntly had to close", because as I said before Huntly is really 2 1/2 power stations on the one site. The bit I was referring to that might have to close are the two older Rankine units. I believe this is likely because one of them has already closed and another is in storage. Also they are by far the oldest of the thermal power stations remaining in the upper North Island. So simply from a wear and tear perspective it makes sense to me that these two would be most likely to shut down first because:
1/ They have done the most work.
2/ They have the oldest technology, are not as efficient as 'Unit 5' and probably not as efficient as "Otahuhu B" or "Southdown" either.
Furthermore on the demand side, while Genesis has 26.8% of the NZ electricity market (p16 investment statement) they only have 19% of the Auckland market. Their relatively low market share in the largest market (Auckland) leads me to belive that they would still be able to supply all of their customers (they claim unit 5 alone and the hydro can do this already) and don't really need an old inefficent power generator (the rankine units) as backup when the overall market is well supplied with power.
SNOOPY
But they also have a take or pay on gas so even if more expensive, the marginal cost of that electricity may be cheaper???
The take or pay contract from Kupe is a double edged sword for Genesis. The contract secures more than enough gas to keep running Unit 5 at Huntly, and presumably gives certainty to Genesis on the cost of that gas. (According to the investment statement, Genesis actually has so much gas under contract it is negatively affecting their profitability.)
But it also means that in times of low power prices, the margins at Genesis will be squeezed as the marginal cost of producing incrementally more substitutable renewable hydro energy is close to zero. With low power demand and increasing supply (both Mighty River and Contact have brought new geothermal stations on line over the last year) gas and coal fired thermal stations are looking very unattractive over the medium term.
SNOOPY
Re the Huntly stations, the Woodward Partners research paper has a particularly good evaluation of their place in the NZ power generating scene. In fact, I found their research to be the most comprehensive and useful of the multitude of words written on this subject in recent days!
Disc: Not employed by Woodward Partners!
Agree Unit 5 is what Huntly is all about these days.
As for the rest I'm confident Pink Floyd will reform and the power station(with unit 5 hidden behind) with its magnificent "colonial chimneys" will be an ideal album cover. Suggested album title is "sheepies":)
From p7 of the Woodward report
"Market expectation has been that Genesis will retire its two remaining active Rankine units over the next few
years, however this will ultimately depend on market conditions including how the Tiwai Point situation unfolds and
the willingness of other retailers to contract dry year reserve hedge cover to support their continued availability."
SNOOPY
Rats, I'm probably the same then skid. Clicked the banner on DB site, indicated how much. I received an email yesterday telling me they'd send out the offer docs but also provided a link to downloaded the application form. Will call then tomorrow for sure
I have been notified of my allocation by Craigs.I have received 38.75% of what I ordered.
My firm [firmish] allocation has been just about halved.
Wife received the same.
We are now "well positioned!"
That is better. A world of difference between closing Huntly completely and retiring the old units.
For those of you interested in the NZ electricity market you can get a snapshot here at:
http://www.electricityinfo.co.nz/
and
http://www.em6live.co.nz/ (prettier)
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
dear Tumeric you are 100 % correct..cheers
So has ASB run out of shares to allocate? I applied on Monday, they still haven't contacted me or taken my money...
I applied through ASB on Sunday, they took my all money out yesterday but haven't contacted me with my allocation yet.
So is there any reason not to apply on the last day of the general share offer, if this means that one may be able to secure more funds to make a larger order?
Also, I called ASB yesterday and they told me they had no more shares to allocate.
Looks like I am going to have to go through the general pool then ha...
Damn well going to put a big red line thru DB stamp on my applic given the way they dealt with their allocation.
Highly brassed off
Well I had a different experience to some of you. Direct/ASB Emailed me on the the 31st notifying me of the firm allocation allotted which was only slightly less than what I applied for. ( subject to scaling to a max of 20% )
I have just gone through the public pool application. 1 joint name, 2 my name. It was going to be just one but I read my email after the fact where apparently the fastsaver a/c can't be used for direct debit so I applied again using another a/c. Checked this morning and the money has been taken out of all a/c's! $2000.00 each time so will be interesting to see what I get.
It will be - unfortunately, it's shoot first, ask questions later, i.e. have your money now, then cross check CSN, addresses etc to cull out multiples/budgies/cats and dogs
let us know what happens!!
Hang on - is it the case that applying though the public pool and identifying that I do have a broker (DB :mad ;:) will take me out of the Public Pool allocation and pass me to DB where the larder is empty? Wonder if I can amend the order and remove the broker reference?
After getting scaled back in the firm allocation (only 1/3 of what I asked for), I applied to the public pool as well. Given that brokers have a degree of discretion when it comes to allocating shares in offers generally, I deliberately routed the application form and old fashioned cheque through my broker. It's a gesture that costs me nothing (except a tiny fraction of a cent as a taxpayer) but may (or may not) be remembered by the broker at some point in the future. Some possible upside and no downside is the way I see it.
I believe that out of the 49% for sale, 40% have been allocated to instos and the lead brokers. So that just leaves 9% for the rest of us including the mommas and the poppas.
The average retail investor only invests about $10k
The IPO is raising $736m, so the 9% will allow 13,518 M&D investors to apply.
MRP attracted a total of 113,000 individual investors and the Meridian Energy float attracted just 62,000 investors.
So is 13,500 allocations for M&D investors enough?
Well, if they hear the same crock that I'm hearing, then they may well do so. Once again, locals warehousing huge parcels for offshore buyers, who will, once again, just dump it after listing. Benefits: two lots of brokerage for the brokers doing the warehousing. And we'll sit here wondering, with so much demand, how come it didn't go up......
It's the Bill and Phil show isn't it?
A further question of the prospectus. When I try and cut and paste from the prospectus, as eventually found on the official Genesis float website, the cut and pasting doesn't work. Tried the same thing on someone elses computer and got the same non result. Is this just something to do with the way the pdf has been set up?
SNOOPY
I think that the custard will hit the political fan if there are any "mums and dads" who don't get their token amount. Given that it likely to be very popular with every man and his dog saying what a good deal it is.
So is 13,500 allocations for M&D investors enough? I doubt it.
Dear Airedale.I know that at times I tend to disagree with most folk.
What I do find ..again ...it somewhat strange that why when the gumment decides to sell a share of a state asset that the investors should naturally accept to make a killing...now im no socailaist by anymeans....as you have noticed the gumment sold a few assets at what appears to be very good prices...for the tax payers at least.....and yet the investment industry deemed that these floats were a failure...Honestly I do not get it really...
What I am sure of is that if folk who are somewhat suspicious of the SM...I can understand why....cheers...
Well this old guy did his apprenticeship in the NZED in the 1970's and helped build one of these power stations. My computer is just about as old. Can not down load application form, so phoned up a foreign bank (ASB) and talked to a foreigner, and they said go to genesis web site and down load the form, because they had run out of forms. So rang up another foreign bank (ANZ) , same thing, talked to another foreigner, and they had no forms. I wonder how many peeved off kiwi people will vote labour out of spite, I won't , but will try again tonight when there is not too many people on line. It should take about two hours to down load hopefully. Still on dail up, but will have to look into changing that one day:confused:
I went in to my local ANZ bank and there was a pile of prospectuses/prospecti on the counter.
well see weed the Bradford reforms of the 90's are a complete failure . prices are so high that the growth is negative in volume, and I know. Be very careful about genesis. I built power stations too
Just search Genesis share offer and complete online - no need to print anything.
https://www.genesisenergyshares.govt...Fc1YpQodOB4AJg
Select apply now.
Another unhappy Direct Broking client here, after reading the posts on here, thought I'd check to see if I had a firm allocation from them, last email from them gave me a reference and said they would send documentation
when it arrived, discover no I don't have an allocation, it's not so much missing out that is annoying, but the fact they don't even tell you.
If I had been told we would have applied for more for my husband through the public pool.
......MY STORY. ANZ client. Applied on line about 2weeks ago giving an indicative uptake/request for 25000 shares. Never heard a thing back........still waiting. Rang them Tuesday just gone (4 days ago).......they said it's in the post.........just checked .......nope, still not here. Rang them again just now.........."apparantly" NZ Post dont really deliver big parcels during the week??!!!..........so I should get it tomorrow!! Can you believe this.......what a load of bulldust, I smell a big rat and Im left wondering they're maybe up to tricks by delaying this to somehow satisfy their BIG traders first, once they've established a good demand is there??
I have no troubles with Direct Broking at all applied 3 days before the cut off for $55k received $52k worth of Genesis shares. The booklet and forms was sent promptly. Good work Direct Broking!
Yup , that is the issue HS. The DB site invited you to register interest with a click. You received confirmation and a ref number by email. All looked good.
If it were not for the chatter here you'd be cheerfully sending in a chq and applic form for $50k or whatever you applied for and would not have known they had nothing to give you other than what was available from the public pool. The banner is still current on the site.
Nowhere did DB say you must call us. What, they couldn't send an email to clients telling them that they needed to call? They claim they shared their allotment as "fairly" as they could. BS, it's an old boy network and it stinks particularly given that they knew interest would be very keen..
Its actually worse than that psychic. Must stress that we are with ANZ but believe it is same as DB anyway. Like you said the email gave a reference number linking back to the online application from their website, but then clearly state that you should action your application as soon as possible and all application need to be received by 10 April. We mailed our application immediately to no avail. Very poor service.
I was told that an expression of interest was an indication of your interest level but not a fiurm allocation or commitment on either party. one needed to then ring and request a firm allocation once the investment statement had been registered sometime last week. and that allocations went to people who had done this up until they had none left? Public pool me thinks..... a couple of applications for me, you, you and me and bobs your uncle hopefully.
Interesting EBITDAF comparison of major NZ Power companies - published on the IFT investor day.
Go to https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/192074.pdf and check out slide 4.
Obviously Trustpower is top (otherwise they wouldn't have showed the comparison), but more interesting is how the other generators feature - Genesis is long term trailing the pack!
Did it say anywhere you were applying for a firm commitment. It appears they website was poorly done as you were only applying for the public pool, but were under the impresson you were applying under the broker pool - confusing since they are a broker.
Note: they are rebranding to ANZ soon so DB will be no more.
Have sent in my form for firm allocation with DB for 50k worth plus applying for another 10k worth under the public pool so if 20% scaling applied will still get enough to get max bonus shares,ive found DB to be great to deal with and with allocation promised to me,but i expect nothing less as ive spent a scary amount of money in brokerage with them over the last year
No it didn't HS and I am sure this is all because we had no firm allocation. My point is that subsequent communications made us feel we had firm allocations and when I contacted them on Tuesday, they say as you didn't contact us on Monday to confirm, they couldn't do it. Yet I can not find any reference anywhere to the need of contacting them on Monday, the very day we received the email from them. Anyway, done and dusted now but I think lots of dissatisfied customers with this extremely poor service.
No we just need to see what we'll get from the public pool and have put in applications in 2 names just in case of heavy scaling...
couta 1, please let us know how your application with DB will be dealt with, just out of interest !
My question was obviously not explianed well enough FP. I don't want to alter the Genesis prospectus. I want to copy text from the prospectus pdf using 'Ctrl A' (select) and 'Ctrl C' (copy) for my own reference into my own word file. That works on every pdf I have tried it with before. But not this time. I wondered if there was a work around.
SNOOPY
Looks like ill have to try for 1% threw the public pool lol at least I have a 100 different names haha
I use PDF24. In the editor, open document, save document without the copy protection and your away.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
My experience with DB was very poor.
I filled in the expression of interest form from their website stating the $ amount of my interest.
I followed up on the 28Th,before the book build & advised that $25k in my expression of interest was a firm request.
I rang back on the 31st to find out my allocation to be told it was Zero as I did not ask for a firm allocation.
Absolute rubbish as I followed their instructions absolutely.
While I know that $25k is small change to them there is clearly something wrong with this process.
All these unsatisfied expressions of interest bode well for the SP on listing. Unless, of course, the interest was purely of a stagging nature!
There may also be plenty for sale as I have no doubt many insiders will stag given they have been given more than they can or would want to hold... ?
macduffy and psychic...I acknowledge my opinions appeal to very few...but this staging ...whats this about.... like I have said in the past ..if folk continue to treat the SM as a casino/Tab....what hope is there.....have folk lost the appreciation of wealth appreciation ???...I could go on here....
Yes, but we are going to flog off State assets at a discount (and Genesis clearly is) the offer should have been managed so that it was fairly available to all - not a select few. Pigs at the trough, brokers and staggers alike.
Bummer http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...hor/jamie2.pngJamie Gray
Jamie Gray is a business reporter for the New Zealand Herald and APNZ wire agency
Investors flock to Genesis sell-off
4:15 AM Saturday Apr 5, 2014
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http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...U1_300x200.jpgInvestors are rushing to buy Genesis shares.
Intense investor interest in the upcoming float of Genesis Energy is forcing a heavy scaling back of broker and institutional share allocations well before the April 14 deadline.
One financial market source said broker firm allocations for Genesis had been reduced, with brokers receiving just under half the number of shares they had applied for on behalf of clients.
Bids from institutions were also understood to be heavily scaled back.
The general offer, open to members of the public, closes on April 11.
Investors will find out their allocations on April 16 and the stock is expected to list on the NZX and ASX on April 17.
A fund manager, who requested anonymity, said there had been a change of heart over Genesis, which was earlier seen as less attractive than the other power generators put up for partial sale by the Government.
"The broker pool is still open but if you ring up a broker now he will tell you it's too late," the fund manager said.
"On the institutional side, there are some pretty unhappy people," he said. "Clearly people were keen to get access to this issue."
Broking sources said the Labour-Green plan to do away with the wholesale electricity market had become less of a concern than was the case with Meridian and Mighty River Power as the National-led Government continued to poll strongly before September's general election.
Genesis is also offering a high implied dividend yield of 10.8 per cent to 13.2 per cent for 2014, plus a bonus share component.
"Also if you look at the portfolio, it's the most flexible of all the generators to deal with potential changes in the generation industry, so if you have another dry period, Genesis is in the box seat," the fund manager said.
Bummmer looks like we will get less than half subscribed for; hopefully by applying for heaps i will still do ok, good luck all.
I received the prospectus today from Direct Broking for Genesis Energy. Seriously what was the point when they have told me I 'm not allowed a firm allocation.
I guess they hope I will apply to the public pool using their form with their stamp so they can claim commission.
Generally I have great service from DB, just annoyed this time that they didn't take the time to tell their clients who thought that they were applying for a firm allocation that they had missed out.
Bonus shares. Just the same pie divided into smaller pieces. Share price will adjust to reflect their issue.