The nerds must be happy as getting a benefit of $300m so they have fun taking their ideas to the world - worst kind of corporate welfare
If the ideas are so brilliant you’d think that private investors would be queuing up to get rich
Printable View
The nerds must be happy as getting a benefit of $300m so they have fun taking their ideas to the world - worst kind of corporate welfare
If the ideas are so brilliant you’d think that private investors would be queuing up to get rich
Very disappointing that NZ'ers health wellbeing is undermined by Labour. Pharmac funding not keeping up with cost of living inflation, let alone drug inflation. Trains more important than people.
Not so sure BaaBaa. I think the opposite. There is nothing in this Budget for anyone except those that are already hardcore Labour voters. A typical employed working/middle class , swinging voter family gets nothing.
Hopefully now we can move on from this none event Budget and see a resignation or a vote of no confidence in the disgraceful bully that is Parliament's Speaker.
Regarding the $1.9b vote for mental health services, did the Inquiry which reported recently find out why NZ's mental health is worse than other comparable Western countries? Shouldn't we know this to decide where to spend the money?
If the parliament speaker is a bully, Bridges is a monster.Most childish , venomish, dictatorial, ugly , bitter person who thinks he's the showman prosecutor in acourtroom and out for a bonus if he can convict an innocent party. He has displayed the worst ina politician and is an embarrassment to his country and party.Digging a deeper hole .
Labour down 6 in the polls . Nats still need a mate to go with . But it looks like the severe lack of delivery has started to hurt Labour .
But they are delivering: They are destroying jobs (mining and oil exploration), they increased income taxes, they increased the fuel tax, RUC is going up again next month and the country is tormented by more strikes (justice, teachers, nurses, doctors) than ever before. The unions want to get their cut for supporting Labour ...
Strikes and taxes - this is what Labour stands for. Didn't Winston realise this when he elected them on behalf of the NZ electorate? Maybe time to show Winston the red card ...
Not what I'm seeing tonight.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...ship-coup.html
Yep. National played dirty and it backfired on them.
They certainly weren't helped in the public's perception by the Labour ministers who repeatedly claimed it was a "Hack" when they knew it wasn't. Most transparent government ever? All I'm seeing is transparent incompetence.
What happened to Mallard's rape claims by the way?
So you are one of those people who believe it is the Opposition party's job to oppose everything the government says or does? That line of thinking is part of the problem with NZ politics. That is the true "dumbing down." An effective Opposition party does not simply oppose everything the government says and does. They should be looking at what the government does with an open mind, not blatantly disagreeing with every just because they are the opposition. And they most definitely should not be playing games to score points, which is what they did over the budget. They just made themselves look like dicks.
I want an opposition party with balls. One that will recognize and appreciate good government policy and decision making, and support that. Yes, I also expect them to oppose things at times but they need to do it responsibly, with legitimate cause, not just because it's "their job to oppose."
Sadly Mallard's unfounded and ridiculous claims have destroyed a man's career and made him and his family very vulnerable. All without any evidence whatsoever. Mallard should be gone but of course we should not expect any honourable decisions from him. The guy is totally unsuitable as a Speaker.
What was it 2000 attempts getting at unauthorised material over a day or so, thats a hack to me.Releasing budget material by anyone other than the Govt is unauthorised and bridges falls again into the unethical prosecute by any means necessary callous bitter power hungry monster that he is. Have a look at his performance in parliament as it unfolded.His conduct was as bad as it gets, his kids would run screaming if they saw it. Taking his party down with him which is not what we want.
Cough cough cough
You are probably correct that it wasn’t hacking, but the fact remains that National obtained or gained access to, confidential information without authorisation. They then read that information, again, without authorisation.
If I find a pile of confidential documents lying on the road, I did not willingly obtain them. But if I read them, I have willingly accessed the information, which is an offence. So regardless of how National got access to the budget, they committed an offence by reading that information, and probably committed a second offence by distributing it.
They had no right to do that and no need either. They acted irresponsibly and dishonestly. They might be the Opposition party. But my expectation as a NZ citizen and voter, is that they behave morally and respectfully. If they choose to play games like this, they lose credibility and my respect.
i think it was unethical unauthorised hacking, low level, but hacking, systematically done for incredibly self serving purposes an attempt to undermine the first well being budget ,esp for mental health and also totally mute the teachers issues. What an incredible stuff up and poor judgement on Nationals part. I can see instructive videos being made of his parliament vitriolic poisonous rant to teach humans how not to behave.
He came across as a dictator, true colours shining through.
You are right - there was no need for them to obtain and publish these documents, and anybody with a shred of respectability in their body would have just told the political opponent that they might want to check the safety of their systems. There was clearly no public need to see these documents a couple of days in advance ...
Bridges stunt was just an attempt of cheap and childish political point scoring.
On the other hand - the reaction of the government was not much better - wasn't it? Talking about "hacking" and alleging crimes while they have been aware that nothing unlawful has happened is just - well, appalling. Clearly gross incompetence, but it might be worse.
There are clearly too many politicians in our parliament who behave as if they still compete for the top position as kindergarten bully. Their behaviour is a disgrace, and these people unfortunately come from all political corners ...
I don't feel represented by this kindergarten.
Yes both sides are woeful ,,, sorry state of politics
Agree BP. Petty and ugly politics on both sides. Bridges should not have gone public with the info they gained from searching Treasury's website. They should have quietly used it to prepare themselves to respond to the Budget. But the reaction from Treasury and the Finance Minister is equally appalling. Of course Winnie also said HE KNEW who HACKED the website but we're so used to him making up stuff, that nobody bothers to even correct him anymore. A sad state of affairs on all sides.
I think the government could could be forgiven for reacting “emotionally” when they first found out about the leak. People jump to conclusions in situations like this, so their initial claims of hacking were probably just that. I’m not saying it was an appropriate response but kind of understandable. So yes, faults on both sides. BUT, I am not as convinced as you that “nothing unlawful” happened. As I said in my previous post, if confidential information comes into your hands, by whatever means, you are obligated to report it and return the information to the rightful owner of that information. Especially if it is government information. Any document you ever receive from a government department, via snail mail or email, has that clearly noted at the bottom of the communication. If you willingly choose to access information that is not yours, you commit an offence and I dare say you could be prosecuted.
I suspect this is the case here. If the government wanted to make an example of Bridges/National, they could bring a prosecution against them. If somebody intentionally accessed your confidential government information (IRD, WINZ, Health Records or whatever) wouldn’t you expect some consequences?
How was I to know that the information is not mine? I mean if I go to a govt website and search for info, I presume (and rightly so) that that info is there for public consumption. I go to many govt websites and enter items in the search category. I NEVER think that what I am receiving is illegal or that I need to report it. Why would I?
I think most most of us visiting a government website, would quickly realise if a specific piece of information had been posted there by mistake. Pretty sure if I saw a document labelled “2019 Budget” (or whatever it might have been named) before the publicised release date, I would be questioning it. I would most probably contact them to let them know, out of courtesy. That would be the ethical thing to do. I would certainly expect the opposition party to do exactly that (I would expect Labour to do the same were the roles reversed.)
Would you not do the same? it’s not even about politics. It’s about being mature and honest and not taking advantage of someone’s mistake, a system failure, or whatever. It’s about human decency. But maybe I’m just old and hanging on to ideals and morals that no longer actually exist.
Depends in which capacity I was operating. If I saw a document titled 2019 budget on the Treasury website, I would presume that this document was available for public consumption. (Treasury is after all a huge public department with huge budget, many IT workers and would have all the necessary checks and balances in place to ensure that all info they want out there is out there and info they do not want out is not out).
Then again if I were Simon, well maybe I should be expected to know better and a common courtesy call with a leak to the media about how slack Labour and Treasury are would be a better method of embarrassing opposition.
You are contributing to the game playing with your suggestion for “a better method of embarrassing” the government. National has made plenty of mistakes themselves in the past, with “accidental” breaches of confidentiality and privacy from various government departments. None of this is ideal or what we want from our government of the day, but no government has been 100% perfect in this area. So it’s pretty damned hypocritical of National to pull a dirty trick like this, just to embarrass the government. Do they think we are all idiots who have no memory of mistakes they have made in the past? Do they seriously believe we will be impressed by their immature game playing?
A good opposition would have noticed the mistake and done the responsible thing. Do you seriously believe Labour would have handled it this way had they been in opposition? Jacinda would not have supported this action had the roles been reversed. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
What did we learn
- not a lot about the budget. All important stuff had been pre released.
- a lot about government agencies IT systems and how slack they are.
- A lot about the ethics of our Government department CEOs. And hopefully Ireland is keeping up with this saga
- a lot about the approach taken by a "neutral" Speaker
- a lot about an opposition who works tirelessly at a task.
Do you not remember the lies she told during the Clare Curran / Derek Handely affair. There was her fudging of details over the Karl Shrubek one as well. She has not released details of the Labour Camp sexual assaults. The list goes on.
And when a report is done you have the Speaker coming out and decalring "rape" when no such thing happened. Or a CGA recommendation and nothing happens.
Ok, I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree. I am not a loyal party follower type voter. I vote for whichever party I feel has a leader with integrity and vision, the best policies for me as an individual, and for the majority of New Zealanders. I voted Labour at the last election for these reasons. Unless something changes between now and the next election, I will probably vote Labour again, for the same reasons.
NZ politics needs a major shake up. We will never have more than two major parties. That’s the reality. So we need a government and an opposition that can work for the good of the country. What we have been doing for the last 38 years (since my first vote) hasn’t worked. We go around in circles getting nowhere. We need to think outside the square and find ways to do things differently and better. Labour isn’t perfect, but they are starting to understand that the status quo isn’t working. They have vision and the balls to step out of their comfort zone to try new things. So far, I am happy enough with what they have done/are doing. Of course I don’t agree with everything, but I am willing to give them time to see things through. National has done nothing over their past however many terms, that had any positive affect on my life. Demographically, someone like me is not their focus. Never have been. Never will be. Labour is the better choice for me.
Unauthorised intrusion also unethical and immoral , two days of it, def hacking low level maybe.
Comparing what great detective work Nicky Hagar did uncovering Dirty politics and what National have done is sensible.Whale Oil and National are in the same dirty boat.Ask Judith Collins for one, John Key for another, dont ask bridges, after all he is a prosecutor.
Says it all really when you describe a well known "HACK" and stealing of personal information as "great investigative work" but a simple search of a website as "hack".
Don't waste time on JT. He has what is commonly called National Derangement Syndrome or NDS. On top of that it is observed that in the past he suffered from Key Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include slavish support of Labour who can do no wrong contrary to facts and National able to do no right, and praising Jacinda as the anointed one.
Truth hurts does it . Think about it. And you should be ashamed of yourself and review your one eyed attitude, maybe go to a dictatorial country and see what its like to be restricted/repressed/kept silent. Read dirty politics and inform yourself. Honesty is such a lonely word in politics ehh.Can be pretty divisive for sure. You have an ignore button btw.
I suggest you all find the truth and it will set u free read Dirty Politics by Nicky hagar.
BTW people have in the past been banned for what you just said FP, think about that too. Unacceptable attempt to moderate and influence..
Come on people. Let’s not do this. We are all adults here and everyone is entitled to their opinions. We don’t have to agree with each other but surely we can respect each other and just agree to disagree on subjects like this one. Let’s focus on the reasons we come here and just let the rest go.
..........
..........
Good.Lets get back to debating.
"The CCP excludes all the world's best papers and websites, so Newsroom can take being banned as a badge of honour."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/06/1...s-newsroomconz
While Ardern, Bridges et al remain silent on such issues
Not good. Awkward when they are our largest trading partner.. Police in HK say only 150,000 protestors but im hearing one seventh of the population (about 1 million)
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co...rotest_part_2/
"The Prime Minister tells us that at 7pm Tuesday 28 May, she was advised her @nztreasury was under cyber attack by persons unknown. Yet, despite this, no one called a meeting of #OCDESC. Or implemented IT contingency plans. Why? Because they all knew the hack claim was invented."
https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/...70813017485312
Didnt realise that when she said "..the most open and transparent government.." she was talking about access to sensitive government economic data using a simple search bar.
Im waiting for Bridges and co to be arrested for hacking and accessing unauthorised info. Also the moral and ethical people of nz have voted sometime ago about his quality and judgement as a leader. Digging a bigger hole.Down trend is fixed
Journalists left a select committee hearing today when the chair closed it for a non-public hearing .......
.......they then watched it live on the select committee's facebook page.
Suppose the journalists could be accused of ‘hacking’ as well.
Is Twyford worried about not being in the job by 24th ?? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12239852
Back from self imposed wilderness 777, good hope you did some thinking out there:scared:.. If you cant see that bridges judgement is so wrong and callous and dictatorial(watch him in parliament attempting to order people to hari-kari) maybe go back out agin, use the self ignore button again.
Duncan Garner reckons that he has never seen a more incompetent Government in his 25 years of covering politics in NZ. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-25-years.html
I suspect more and more will come to this realisation before the next election. Winston is already in re-election mode, having himself thrown out of Parliament today so he could tell the journalists that he got thrown our for looking after the teachers, even though he was saying no such thing. He went outside with his team of followers walking behind him and pre announcing an (expected) agreement with the teachers and stealing Labour's thunder (and a few tens or hundreds of millions extra), just like he does the Greens, such as their 1.2 Billion trees election policy before the last election. Come next election, voters will only relate tree planting to NZF but I will be surprised if this motley crew lasts that long.
Immigration was one thing Labour couldn’t stop talking about pre-election
Even though the numbers aren’t really going down and we are not too far off ‘peak immigration’ of 2016 not a word these days from Labour
..........
Unfortunately Garner and Hosings are so fearful and sooo national biased. Its hilarious watching them trying to outdo each other(for about 3 secs:) for some bottom feeding ratings.
Wow, this transparent Government really is doing well. Just some of the headlines today:
Winston blindsiding Andrew Little and his own Minister Tracy Martin on abortion law.
Phil Twyford in the poo with yet another one of his portfolios, CAA this time where he has lied about receiving info last year about cultural problems in the organisation
Barry Soper claiming allegations of rape and serious sexual misconduct inside Labour Party ignored by hierachy and not properly investigated, leading to an exodus from the party
Ombudsman launching an investigation into a letter from Minister Genter to (yes you guessed it) Twyford that they deny to release.
Media shine now wearing off the PM that is increasingly looking like she is way out of her depth and now avoiding media scrutiny, preferring Facebook feeds where she can control what is put out, like the Education Minister.
And now with the economy gridning to a halt, will this motley lot last the term ?
Throw in Nationals fake news , abortion up to birth.
Haven't seen anything in the legislation to prevent it. Little was disingenuous in the answer I saw him give on this, saying no, but basically just placing it back on the shoulders of the practitioners.
Always amazed how the rights of one human being tread all over the rights of another on this issue. Abortion stops a beating heart. That's why it is in the Crimes Act.
Barry Soper on Labour's shameful behaviour https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12256255
Ardern is the ultimate hypocrite. Campaigning on transparency and "wellbeing" and then turns a blind eye when things get difficult. I think her hypocracy on the transparency will be her undoing. Nothing worse than claiming the high moral ground while actively undermining it. It is cynical and despicable.
Yeah but she has a BABY :)
Looney Left is going run the train right off the track in this GFC2.0 that's coming down the line like a freight-train with nop brakes
there is no IF and more just when its going hit .. last two weeks Negative bonds grew another 2 trillion from 12
Bottom line imo is its always a womans right to choose and looks like an easy win here as it should be.
Abortion reform has the numbers
Strange how abortion is supposedly OK, and yet everyone agrees there are too many. Supposedly OK but they struggle to get staff to do the slaughtering. Suppposedly OK and done on mental health grounds and yet many women are mentally scarred for life by the life they have lost.
Whose "everyone", churches i guess, religion hiding behind it as has been found in the euthanasia issue
Slaughtering as in abattoirs , sensational , emotive stuff there.
Mentally scarred? It should be a womans choice every time. .
The vast majority of women who have an abortion do so very early way prior to the 20 week stage .
Absolutely support the womans choice. Relgion has a lot to answer to in things like Euthanasia and Womens rights, its callous and totally uncaring in these situs. Bible needs updating imo, compassion missing.
The argument about it being a "woman´s choice" each time is ridiculous. While abortions are justifiable in some circumstances, making them too freely available reduces this serious and sad decisión to the level of birth control. We have birth control freely available in NZ already (even day after pills) and time people take responsibility for their actions.
So women are ridiculous and should have no say over their bodies. I hope you can see how ridiculous and extremely sexist this attitude is.
Jonu getting offensive already in the new sharetrader. That didnt last long did it.!:( Come on mate please try to be nicer, seriously.
94 to 23 on the first stage of updating the redundant 40 year old abortion bill.Concsience ahead of politics and religion:)
Still no answers to the rebuttal of your fallacious arguments and false accusations. Tell me JT, does abortion stop a beating heart? How does your conscience sit with that? I worry about the state of our country's well being at a level that Little and Ardern seem unable to comprehend. The most vulnerable are expendable in their view, their lives to be snuffed out and from their "mother's womb untimely ripped".
Yes its very emotive for some i understand that.It was great to see lots of hugging going on across the house in the debates yesterday.My conscience is clean and looking forward to this bill going through albeit with much discussion to come and probably a few tweaks. You need to find the answers and solutions within jonu, thats up to you, your journey.
I have those answers. How you can have a clean conscience about supporting taking the lives of others is beyond me...but perhaps that is why you avoid answering tough questions and instead raise fallacious arguments and accuse me of being offensive. I suggest an underlying unease on your part that you won't confront, but will instead see it to be easier to raise smokescreens and attack others to placate yourself. It is not uncommon behaviour.
Out of interest Jonu, are you vegan?
Interesting , it was brought up again today the religious beliefs hiding behind the anti abortion lobby, its there alright just like it was hiding in the background pushing hard in the anti euthanasia lobby, very disappointing and all it does push people away from religions.
Still no answers to hard questions JT? Just more attacks on religion which was certainly never raised by me.
Do you accept that abortion after 6 weeks gestation stops a beating heart? Most doctors don't want to have anything to do with abortion. They understand, more than most, exactly what is involved and the lengths to which abortionists will go to extinguish the life of a human being. Cutting up in utero, crushing the head so it can be sucked out and other horrific acts. Unpalatable to hear and think about, which sadly is why most people willfully turn a blind eye and say it's a woman's choice. A woman's choice whose mental wellbeing is supposedly at risk. How is that responsible?
No I was just thinking about your post the other day...
...and wondering, for someone like yourself so dead set against abortion, is it the killing of any living thing (stopping a beating heart), or do you set an intelligence distinction, or....?
FWIW I think there is definitely a need for availability of abortions for very specific instances, but I don't think they should be freely available for no reason. I haven't actually looked at the details of the bill to see exactly what they're proposing.
Do you hold the same position on euthanasia? ie take no lives.
There will always be difficult , heart wrenching exceptions but the vast majority are not. And i believe its the womans right to choose. It sounds like you have personal story to tell and if so i can understand your depth of feeling here.
As a species we have long set a distinction between human life and others. This isn't exactly new.
As for Euthanasia...The arguments are different, but yes I am against it. The major difference is of course with Euthanasia the recipient presumably requests it without coercion. I don't think too many babies put their hand up to be aborted.
Then there is the new movement, folks choosing to have few or no children due to global warming.Thats such a gift and a sacrifice!
And the folks who desperately want children and go to fertility clinics(disclose im invested in one), an up cycle happening there i think.
And the folks that will choose to adopt children, is there awaiting list? Throw these in and its a complex situ alright.