Just up on their Website!!
Attachment 8806
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Just up on their Website!!
Attachment 8806
Finally got my first auto-invest with less than 1% available funds
I had around 4% available funds, have not had an auto lend since 17th December. I topped up, which took me to over 10% available funds, auto lend then kicked in, which was great, but it kept going until I was under 2%. Very surprised.
some of the monthly incomes seem dodgy
a 20-29 year old in Rotorua earning $5.5k / month AFTER tax?
Thats a $87k per year, which is really good for that age group in Rotorua...
Attachment 8811
LAI*00094753 this one worries me repayments 50% of income and paying a mortgage on top of that and grade B2 and a rewrite with principal more than doubling?
Hi, I have just signed up with Harmoney & just about to deposit some spare funds to invest. Just dipping my toes in at this stage but is anyone able to give advice to a newbie?
Cheers
Hi Brut,
Diversify by only investing 1 note per loan. I would try and have at least 200+ notes across seperate loans. Log in regularly as many loans are repaid/rewritten early and or setup auto investment. This helps minimise the amount of money sitting idle in your account. I personally now avoid the grade A, E and F loans due to my risk/return preferences. and expect to get write offs.
Diversify within each grade you choose to invest. Don't be fooled into trying just a few of the riskier grades as it is very much a case of safety in numbers. The higher the risk the more you should diversify so say at least 100 for A's but more like 300 for E's and F's. I have found sticking to A to D gives me a return of 14% which is slightly better than the whole platform so I don't see any benefit of going with E's and F's. I also filter out business loans and any over $35k. Using auto invest is much easier and almost essential to build a portfolio now. Good luck!
Look at the interest-default graph posted by Myles on 20 April. It gives a good pointer for where the optimum net returns are, if defaults in your portfolio align with Harmoney's expectations. Be prepared for defaults to align to expectations and don't be emotional about them - this is a business. Personally, $25 a loan is too small and the only way it makes sense is to just play percentages - in which case you should receive a net return in accordance with Myles' graph - if you want a net return of 16.51% then you can always invest just in C3 loans; or spread equal amounts across B2 to D4
Thanks for taking the time to respond & for the helpful tips, much appreciated!
Its not as simple as that, the chance to default is per year, and each individual loan has an average length of time before it defaults, where you would receive none or some of the interest payments until that point.
Also when you model what would happen if default rates spiked, the value point shifts from the DEF end to the ABC end.
I have done extensive modelling on this.. I did find that the sweet point is in the E for the current market conditions, should the economy tank and default rates spike, then you would want more ABC's.
I do think most A's suck the interest rate is too low and they are often paid back early. Likewise a lot of the F's - 12% expected annual default rate? no thanks Jeff.
Fwiw this is my distribution, I have 800+ loans, average loan value probably $90 (ie 4 notes most of the time, sometimes 2 or 3)
Attachment 8818
Take some of your points, but I think the graph is a good indicator based on what Harmoney expect/model. (Interest rate is yearly as is default rate, per loan or across all loans). I'd like to know what the average actual loan length is for 36 and 60mth loans.
If there were a sudden increase in job losses then this would effect default rates across all risk grades, potentially high income earners could be effected more (e.g. IT workers in the past).
There is a bit of data out there of what happened with Lending Club in and around 2008, p2p in general fared very well.
My Risk Grades graph is looking more like yours already, and suspect that's about where it will end up. B5 are just to good to pass up and I really need to be across a fair set of ranges to keep up with the turnover.
What are your thoughts on what would happen to p2p lending if the Housing market took a big hit (lots of noise in Australia at the moment that his might be close, maybe not a tank, but a significant slow drop)? Could it happen here, it would hurt an awful lot of NZ'ers?
Two links that might be useful to consider for grade selection:
http://www.lendingmemo.com/p2p-lendi...n-performance/
Some of the comments don't actually match the grade block comparison numbers (D's are on top, not A's in 2009). The summary at the end holds a very important point.
http://www.lendingmemo.com/risk-grad...-club-prosper/
Risk tolerance isn't the same for everyone...
[Probably mentioned in there somewhere but if it's not: Small investments are typically much more risky/volatile than larger, diverse investments.]
yeah even though i looked into quite a bit I came to the same conclusion you did - that D/E's are the sweet spot
That lending club article is one that i reference a lot when I explain to people it (harmoney) should be reasonably safe in a recession - it shows whats kinda obvious the higher risk loans are fine when the economy is good and defaults are low, but if conditions where to change and defaults increase then in theory those will go first. Thats why I haven't gone all out on C - F's. I am cutting back on B's, but like you said B5's do represent a lot of value.
Hmm should the housing market crash?
I guess then that would coincide with interest rates going up, so people may not be able to afford their mortgages, and would prioritize a mortgage over a p2p debt, so I guess we would see defaults increase.
For those without ties to the property market who have p2p lending, I guess they would suffer too, housing crash probably = less economic confidence, higher unemployment, some p2p loan holders default
Overall housing market crash = not good, would probably have a negative effect on p2p lending
Analyzing your graph, in my experience of 1000+ loans, Your B,C,D proportions are great very similar to mine.
But I am getting rid of all A,E,F grades over the next few months and place all the repayments into B,C,D so my spread will look B35, C40, D25. B+C=75% B+D=60% C+D=65%. Expect a RAR of about 17%.
My current default number from 1000+ all time loans is (15) A-D 2/15; E+F 13/15 ouch!!
Yeah, not good :(
One thing I see a lot of people say that they include in their auto-lend (and manual selection I suspect) is 'Owned/Paying Mortgage' - thinking if the borrower can pay a Mortgage they can pay an additional loan. I started out that way, but have now come to the conclusion that a good spread into Rentals is a good choice, exactly because of this reason - if the Housing market drops, my thinking is the 'Owned/Paying Mortgage' group would likely be the higher defaulters, whilst rent would likely drop making the 'Renting' group less likely to default and hence a good diversification choice in this situation?
At the end of the day, I guess the bigger spread you have across most/all types of criteria the more stable your return will be, not necessarily the best return though, if you have the time to ride out any major dips, leaning towards higher risk will give much higher returns.
I think mortgage holders will do all they can not to default. I feel that the repayment to income ratio is important and I generally base my lending on ratios between 5-17% and a max of $25,000.
I do choose renters as well but no "Boarders" or" Living with Parents" or "Other".
I'm at <20%
I don't bother with this as Harmoney set a max for each Risk Grade which I'm happy with.
Same, but I pick up the occasional manual loan with these if other criteria look good.
I've been going back and forth with these three Residental Status options: "Boarding", "Supplied by Employer", "Living with Parents". I personally feel that "Supplied by Employer" is potentially the riskiest option since the borrower could change their job which doesn't supply accommodation and a result their living expenses will go up. "Living with Parents" could be that the borrower is trying to save money for a house deposit, lots of people do it in Auckland. "Boarding" I have no idea what it means exactly. Has anyone done any analysis on the risk of the Residental Status options?
interdasting
I am only 7 months in so don't have a long enough time frame to judge, but most of my ones in arrears are E's, I think they are still under repped for how many E's I have * expected default rate
yeah might just go to bcd like you have, although 35% + interest < 5% default rate E's always look good
I didn't mention the amounts but here they are; 95% of my loans are A_D grade with only 5% E and F. The maximum numbers of loans held in E,F grades was 10%.
It certainly is OUCH!! I have lost 12% of my Gross Interest through E and F Defaults.
Out of an all time total of 95 E and F grades loans, about half have been Paid-off; 13 Defaults, 6 In Arrears the rest are current and to date I have just about broken even from these grades.
Not questioning your numbers, but I'll put a quick example together that you might be able to poke holes in - a lot of assumptions I know:
95 loans at E and F - lets say on average 25% interest annually and $100 on each loan for simplicity.
Total investment 95 x $100 = $9500
13 defaults - lets ignore interest gained prior to the default, which could be significant:
13 x $100 = $1300 principal lost
Assume average payout is only 2 years - could be significantly more or less?
95 - 13 = 82 loans
82 loans at @25% per year for 2 years = (82 * $100) * 25% * 2 yrs = $4100 interest
Less lost principal from above = $4100 - $1300 = $2800 gain over 2 years
$2800 gain over 2 years from initial investment of $9500 = $2800/$9500/2 = 14.7% return (ignoring fees and tax)
Not an ouch? I must be missing something fundamental?
Although if he didn't have the E&F loans his return would have increased to 21%.
I am hovering mid 14% Rar investing in only A,B & C and have changed recently to solely Autolend.
E&F have too high default rates plus the risk of an global economic slowdown has me running a less risky portfolio.
Where did that come from???
Clearly my example was very 'worst case', since the average interest for E+F is more likely to be around 35% or more (not the 25% I used), there would be a return of probably 1/3rd of the 'lost principal' from interest gained prior to defaulting as well.
Using likely numbers the return would be in the 23-27% range probably more, so a gain on overall rate of return not a loss...
13 defaults from 95 over 2 years is 6.8%, which is pretty much where Harmoney say it will be? (Was this only over 2 years, I suspect it was more?)
I get the Risk aspect of it, but based on the current Harmoney numbers you aren't loosing money being in E or F's instead of lower Risk Grades, you are making money (significant money especially if you re-invest)? BUT there is a RISK, as you say.
What am I missing?
WOW ... today got my first autolend since 14 December !!!
thats pretty much it.
I got a spreadsheet that had expected returns for each of the 6 risk grades, based on all the available stats for each (annual default rates, avg time to default, paid off early rate, avg time to pay off early etc) and modeled returns on each one.
It came out D/E was best return - which we already discussed.
I then ran recession scenarios, ie default rates increase by X % over Y period of time, to find out what would happen to expected returns. I found there is a lot of room to move. On portfolio similar to mine (actually the target I had in mind, it was something like 10% / 20% / 20% / 17.5% / 17.5% / 5%, I would need default rates to increase 5 fold, for my EV = 0.
Granted, thats saying they all just increase by 5 fold. Which when the average default rate of an A is 0.17%, increasing this 5 fold is still not even 1%. So still f all. Realistically in a recessions default rates might be more of an (default rate x 3) + 5% type thing.
Would need some more research on modeling how default rates react to recession scenarios.
Also thought about tracking lead indicators that a recession could be coming, ie unemployment rates etc
Does your spreadsheet take into account tax and fees ? Does it take into account early repayments and the effects of having to invest in lots of $25 in order to take avantage of continuous interest earnings ? You would almost need to write a program todo all that ? Paying tax/fees as you earn it - has a huge effect on your earnings at the end.
I think your calculation at the end for returns over years - is not the same as compounding interest.
I think its incorrect to come in at 85 loans at the start and 85 loans at the end - as you would be over time you would be reinvesting in new loans as payback happens etc. The interest you earn would be put into new loans - new loans risk profiles.
Food for thought.
The tax and harmoney fees are very easy to do.
The only thing that gets complex is reinvesting. So i don't have that in the model. You can't really add re invested loans to existing loans as payment periods are different etc, has to be a new line in excel and then this in turn has its own stuff reinvested the next period. Kind of like compound interest, except the compound is its own loans with variable characteristic (interest / default rate, % early payback etc etc).
Though I have modeled the scenario that all payments coming out of harmoney go into a managed fund at 8%.
For simplicity i assume investing in chunks of $100
To be more specific I use IRR, ie goal seek on a particular portfolio balance what default rate multiplier (ie simulation of a recession) makes my IRR go to zero.
I pretty sure I have everything exact, i can download a csv from harmoney, feed it into my model, and on my summary page it spits out a (pretty much to the nearest cent) a reconciliation with my harmoney dashboard.
Attached calculation. Maybe its wrong though. You may wish to go for your managed fund at 8% as you will get more. Does not take into account you would be reinvesting the returned amounts.
What interest rate have you used?
25% on 8200 as per www.bankrate.com amortization calculator type tool.
%15 harm fee.
17.5 Tax.
Roughly a new loan can be undertaken every 10 days. So you lose some interest on those days while you wait.
I should have used 20% for harmony fees structure which would bring it down to 5.37% after tax.
So a critcial part of your spreadsheet is the calculations of reinvestment amounts as they come in - without it it wont be very good.
Somewhere in the forum is a modeling tool which tries to do it more correctly.
Yeah, nah...
The discussion was about E and F loans so you should have used at least 35%...
You've assumed the defaults are from day one which is not reality - perhaps 1/2 on day one and 1/2 at the start of year 2 - Harmoney state avg default time is 18mths...
What about taking tax of the 8%...got to compare apples with apples...
You've assumed loans end at 2 years, again, not reality. Plug in 35% and even without the other details you'll see that 8% won't come near it...
I was just using your numbers and assumptions from your previous post.
Harmony has a graph which you can use to predict defaults - most defaults acording to them happen near the 3 month point and then tail downward
its at the bottom of this page
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors/investment-risks
called the hazard curve down the bottom.
Which maps to the below array values - which you can use in your spreadsheet.
2.00, 2.30, 4.00, 5.00, 5.80, 5.70, 5.60, 6.00, 5.70, 5.20, 5.80, 5.00, 4.70, 4.00, 3.60, 3.15, 3.00, 2.70, 2.10, 2.15, 2.00, 1.90, 1.60, 1.40, 1.60, 1.00, 1.20, 1.00, 0.90, 0.80, 0.60, 0.55, 0.50, 0.50, 0.60, 0.15, 0.05, 0.05, 0.05, 0.05, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Cheers
That example was for a completely different and specific purpose and if you read the followup you'll see why...
You are misreading the graph - you need to consider the area under the graph (only around 10% at 3rd month)?, and that would no doubt be very bias toward the F5 loans which have a default rate of 15.38%.
You are really confusing the discussion - try the given values for say an E3 loan at 35.33% annual interest and an annual default rate of 4.11% per year...and subtract the tax from 8%...then compare (still not a fair comparison as you have principal and interest to re-invest which is significant)...
I'll do a version 2
The US article that has been linked around here on how p2p lending goes during a recession is reassuring that we should be ok too, reasonably ok.
Ultimately over time, the ultimate measurement is actualls.. a simple XIRR on a timeline of all your deposits vs all your withdrawals..
I'm pretty sure that XIRR is after tax too, as what I have sitting in my account and have had (withdrawals) already has the tax on it.
(i know, I know, I can't get the whole 80k out right now)
Attachment 8825
Yes, i agree the “outstanding principal” has tax paid. And the other good news is you could perhaps add back the harmony fees – as they should be tax deductable.
Good luck claiming any defaults though – other people have ideas on that.
One word of caution is you yet to have defaults as they are roughly 180+ days outstanding and you have only been in the game
for 260 days – so they will take a chink on your 14% - once they start to come through – however you can predict that
with your arrears balance somewhat.
Cheers
yeah I know I can claim the fees back as an expense, and that my portfolio is not mature so obviously a zero default rate (what it is thusfar) is totally unrealistic.
Seems like I have lucked out a bit, some of the best value loans i found (35% interest, <5% default rate E's) I invested 8 notes in... well 3 of those are in arrears. Really bad strike rate!
Just a clarification please - is this % the Harmoney payments to income? Because we don't see any other commitments in the borrower details and if they have a mortgage the odds are that will account for perhaps 40% of pretax income? Makin a hellish debt commitment if Harmoney takes 17% of aftertax?
That is correct, I have written about this in much earlier posts, some financial commentators state that individuals paying more than 35% of their after tax income on a mortgage loan could be deemed to be in financial stress. So an additional secondary loan could push some people to 40-50% of their income.
One wonders why these individuals don't apply to their bank for an extra loan top-up instead of the secondary market?
I have trawled through my own statistics of 1100 loans taken in the last 2 years. Here are some facts:
- 642/1100 loans were with a mortgage and only 2 of these have defaulted
- 348/1100 loans were to renters and a total of 5 defaults
- 33/1100 loans were owned no mortgage, supplied by employer and 0 defaults
- 77/1100 loans were living with parents, boarding and other, with a total of 9 defaults
Those numbers aren't really meaningful without taking into account the grades that they come from though. e.g. potentially more Renters in higher risk grades?
I suspect you'd only see the real trend if/when the economy/housing marking shifts significantly downward and there would be a lag (maybe 6-12 months after)? (If you study the Lending Club data you can clearly see a lag.)
I see quite a few borrowers listing Boarding as their Residential Status. What's the difference between Boarding and Renting? Would borrowers who board be a higher risk of defaulting than borrowers who rent?
Stats like these should be a guide to all those lenders who dislike seeing defaults in their book. It is possible to minimise default risk by cherry picking loans but that may come at a cost in terms of net return. The alternative is to just try for the Harmoney average per grade invested in (D & E are highest net) and don't bother thinking about defaults - perform like the Harmoney portfolio in C, D & E and you are doing well. We should all be thankful, as am I, that our money isn't in the banks.Quote:
Originally Posted by permutation;
[LIST
Generally Boarders are people that rent a room from either a Home owner or a Boarding House for a fixed amount per week which could include a bed and other furniture and sometimes a meal may be provided.
Renting is mostly an unfurnished house that one or more people pay a Landlord and the renters themselves provide all the necessities of everyday living.
Many young people over 18 may board with their parents or other relatives for a time, because renting could be a prohibitive cost to them starting out into adult life.
It's hard to judge the risk between renters and boarders in the lower E and F grades, but only 2 from 16 of my loan defaults to date were mortgage holders in the B grade.
Not sure if these have come up here before - a very interesting set of graphs from Lending Club:
https://www.lendingclub.com/info/dem...profile.action
Clearly you can't compare directly as there are many differences.
The 'Historical Returns by Grade' and 'Net Annualized Return by Vintage' are particularly interesting.
I haven't read this thread for a while, just skimmed the last 2 pages and can't see any mention: I've noticed over the last week or two my auto-lend is now working right down to $0.00. I'm assuming this change has been applied to all?
Certainly beats logging in each day and selecting loans. Thumbs up from me.
Autolend for the week has been going flat out. My account has picked up heaps of loans automatically and is now nearly at zero $.
well the plan is to get this 100k in then sit back and have a 36 month auto lend going, anything that doesnt get allocated at the end of the week will go through to my bank via a auto deposit.
pretty sure that loan dist graph is by count not value, i think by value it would be more skewed C,D,E
Attachment 8843
I see you haven't been investing for long. From my experience 60 month loans are often repaid/rewritten early. So you don't really need to focus on 36 month loans to achieve your aim. Well over 50% of the loans I invested in in December 2014 have been repaid/rewritten.
I did quite a lot of research, I inquired with Harmoney and they informed me about 3% of your loan portfolio gets repaid / re written each month. So as I have modelled it, if you are doing auto withdrawal+ ~3% early repayments per month you get about 50% of your capital back in the first year.
I didn't realise (although I can probably confirm) that there was more of a skew with early repayments from the 60 month loans.
Will have to crunch the numbers on that one.
Can this borrower's monthly income be for real? If so, why would someone earning over $18k a month need to borrow $25k?
Attachment 8844
Some people earn big and spend big. Remember how Kim Dotcom used to live in the Coatesville mansion?
Best to be guided by the credit ranking. D4 is a high risk and big earners can over spend big too.
In my view there seems to be too many eyebrow raising after tax figures ... move the decimal points would be more like it...
If you have a repay/income rate set below 4.37% you won't get many auto-lend loans?
My guess is that there is another large loan/investment involved elsewhere.
With a repayment history and if you believe the income, this could be a good investment for 28.7% interest. Will probably be paid back early but who knows...
Purpose of 'Debt Consolidation', which is what the original loan was probably for, has now changed to include 'upgrade accommodation', the borrower has only bumped the loan from 21,487 to 25,500, so I'm guessing just cash strapped at the moment?
Not that long ago i was invested fairly heavily in property. Mostly sold now and converted to shares/ P2P/ funds, however when i was invested i sometimes had to fill in forms that stated my income; several times i was embarrassed because the monthly income figure was ridiculously high but was in fact correct. The other side of the paper of course contained outgoings which evened things up somewhat. This guy could be in the same boat and could easily be in a position of wanting a few extra $ on short term basis - something like Harmony would be cheaper than refinancing with the bank and wouldn't have the same regulatory scrutiny.
Thanks Fisherking, good explanation. It's easy to forget we see only one side of the balance sheet, as you say.
I wonder though, on a loan application is it gross income or net the lender really wants to see? (Hmm... answered my own question http://finance.zacks.com/mortgage-le...come-5903.html).
Auto withdrawal suggestion:
Today I emailed Harmoney the following suggestion to add for Auto withdrawal existing feature.
Suggestion 1:
Minimum account funds available level
Proposed- The $25 level is adjustable in $5 increments and works as a minimum level you want left in account.
Suggestion 2:
Customer can choose between A or B
A- As per existing where funds are withdrawn completely ( although now only down to minimum level set above)
or
B- An option to remove a fixed amount each week which would leave rest available to invest if required
These suggestions enhance existing Harmoney feature but allow quite a bit of flexibility for investors. example: Some one who wants to retire and say have $300 per week to live off can do so whilst remaining money stays in funds available being reinvested by auto lend.
Great suggestion. I also suggested to have multiple filters work on the Autolend .
E.g
Filter 1 - 36 month loans , b- d grade
Filter 2 - 60 month loans a grade
filter 3 - 36 & 60 months, e & f grade, debt to income ratio 0 - 15%
All of them running looking for loans to invest in
I can't understand why it takes so long to get monthly statements out.
that is a great idea, I have both auto lend and auto withdrawal going, the idea being each week I get money reinvested and whatevers left over gets paid out to my bank account on a Monday. obviously this amount is variable depending on how many auto loans get filled. Would rather have a set minimum to get paid out to my bank acc.
Now that the tax certificates are out I can do my tax return. It's my first year for putting P2P in my tax return.
1) I assume you all claim the lending fees as expenses in your tax returns?
2) Which box do you put them in?
For me the non-resident online help says I can't claim expenses against non-resident passive income, i.e. interest.
After further investigation, looks like residents and non-residents are treated slightly differently. Residents could claim it in box 26 "Other expenses and deductions". Non-residents have a similar box, but as before can't claim expenses against passive income. P2P lending. Not fair.
My Tax Statement shows an incorrect address for me - anybody else have this problem?
Two Months in: Have managed to double up and then some, switching to 4 notes per loan for most loans.
Invested: $54,229.89
Loans: 635
Avg. Loan Size: $85.31
Auto-Lends: 190
Avg. Interest: 22.79% (Weighted)
Avg. Exp. Return: 15.73% (Weighted less Default+Fees+Tax)
Expected Monthly Return to deal with: $1,471.20 (Principal + Interest : excludes payoffs)
XIRR.: 19.23% (starting to stabilise now)
Interest Paid to date: $302.96
After doing some calculations of my own I've settled on a Risk Grade spread from B3 to E3, which I feel will give me a good return with enough loans to keep up with the total investment I'm aiming for - I'll most likely narrow this spread as time goes on and I get a better feel for Grade defaults and timing, and other variations over time.
Loan Term Graph:
Attachment 8854
Risk Grade Graph:
Attachment 8855
Risk Grade Detailed Graph:
Attachment 8856
Like I have mentioned before myles, after 2 years, I was shocked by the number of E an F grade defaults 13/16 to be exact. As I have not been taking any new E and F grade loans for a number of months, I now have one quarter left of the originals through default or repayment that will all come due between now and November 2018. My statistics show a NIL or Negative return once all these loans terminate.
I'm thinkin why turnover this money when the end result will be Zilch!
I strongly agree with B2 to D4: should I be charging fees for my opinions through experience!!
I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't pay for your advice. From what you've said, I've either missed something completely or you don't get the whole risk vs default thing.
You've indicated before that you have had 95 E and F loans, 13 of which have defaulted (in 2 years?) - this sounds completely normal to me - this is very close to what Harmoney suggest will happen. You are getting 30-40% interest on these loans, defaults are to be expected.
Calculate how much interest you've gained from the other 80 loans that didn't default - if they were paid out early, you need to consider reinvestment, otherwise you are not looking at the whole picture - that money was freed up to earn further interest (and some defaults no doubt)?
As a very simple example to get 'Zilch':
If you had 100 of these E+F loans ($1 each = $100 invested) at say 35% interest and if you were to assume 50% of interest lost as tax+fees, this works out at 85 paid out in one year ($85 principal returned + $30 interest - $15 tax+fees = $100) and 15 defaults from day one ($0) to get 'Zilch' - anything above that is profit? You should be able to claim some tax back from this as well, which means it's still not 'Zilch'.
Clearly you would expect to get some significant return in the following years from at least some of these loans that continue past year 1 and the money that would be reinvested from those paid back early.
Note that the 15% default rate used in the example is the maximum expected for an F5 loan!
Or do I have my numbers wrong?
If you want to pay for my advice instead LOLLoan defaults start to kick in from month 9 or 10. Which is inline with Harmoneys stats.There is another graph somewhere a user here posted that takes into account Harmoney stats. It showed actual returns for each grade vs actual defaults.Using that data it showed returns were low if you invested in E and F. In fact returns were higher using D grades.
[QUOTE=myles;666932]I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't pay for your advice.....
QUOTE]
Let's be clear, I said: "...should I be charging fees for my opinions through experience!!", I don't give advice.