Labour introduced the requirement for all organisations wanting government funding to embrace and adopt te reo Maori & incorporate Maori culture.
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C'mon, if you think our economy is in that dire a state, explain to us how it's ok to give tax cuts which there is no plan on how to fund apart from borrowing.
You think that's responsible fiscal management?
If Labour had said we're giving $14 billion in tax cut's & rebates and we're going to find the funding from a bit here and a bit there & somehow we'll cobble it together but we don't actually know yet & cant give you any definite figures yet, you'ld rightly be all over them!
Cutting back wasteful spending and stopping more parasites and beneficiaries from being bred - plenty to fund reduction in taxes from hard working NZers.
Woke leftists like BS only appreciate wasteful spending with zero accountability.
Live and learn from the new government over the next 12 years+.
Smokefree NZ is about as “aspirational” as COVID free NZ.
We’re now down to something like 7-8% of the youth are smoking, a great achievement but leaves the hardcore still doing it. Better to buy them legally and collect the tax than drive it all into the black market ?
So the question that I have to ask is and this is from someone who has never and will never vote Labour, HAVE WE REPLACED THE LABOUR IDOTS WITH A NEW BUNCH, imo a really sad day for N Z, its health system and the people who struggle to do the right thing and stop smoking !!!! IDOTS, IDOTS, IDOTS,
Show me one benefit from smoking ?
Show me one benefit from Vaping
Show me one benefit from Meth and other illicit stuff
Sounds like Govt is waking to the fact there are far worse out there, that generate little or no tax revenue
but produce greater harm. Labour threw a bundle of notes at some of the actors in the various games, hoping it would go away, then ignored it when the game prospered instead
One benefit - we lose a bunch of expensive self centred tail chasing bureaucratic underperforming shufflers, when there are far greater & more worthy targets that should be chased instead ;)
Keeping the captive bureaucratic zonks onboard preaching to the stubborn unconverted at a high cost, while ignoring other vices is .. well wasteful & poorly focused administration - at what increasing cost each year ?
and of course smoking keeps a decreasing band of unfortunates off other equally or more harmful vices ;)
Hate to say it .. but Smokefree has done it's dash .. and 2025 approaches .. so what's been achieved, what of the bunch still with the said vice then ? No answers from the feel good posturing earlier Politicians who sold & inflicted it .. The country has had a guts full of Ardern style restrictions & red tape. It had to go, as with the largely poorly patronaged cycleways in many parts now put on backburner :)
Sorry JK - new broom & some very old legacy grandstanding projects' past useby date garbage warrant a clean up :)
Personal choices now over the former Nanny State dictating ? ;)
The new Govt didn't really want to p!ss a fresh bunch off, so soon after landing in Power .. Peter's had a word or two on this some years back too
Smoke-free was about more than just health.
Who can remember going to a bar or restaurant prior to Smoke-free and coming home with clothes reeking of a smoke house.
No wonder Winston's favorite haunt, the Green Parrot is for sale.
They couldn't face a return to the old days.
Deleted....
Looks like they found where he ditched his boat:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-...seum/103142700
'New evidence' found in mystery of where Captain Cook's HMB Endeavour shipwreck lies, National Maritime Museum says
Probably more there after almost 250 years than will remain of Labour's failed 6 years after a further 6 years ahead ;)
As a fair minded man, l'm prepared to strike a deal with any smoker.
You can smoke and exhale into my personal space.
As a drinker, l will drink and urinate into your personal space.
You can be pissed on and pissed off at the same time!
Brilliant, so clever, so easy, why didn't I think of that!
Oh I see, the Coalition are literally going to find the funding for $14 billion of Tax cuts & Rebates, by cobbling together money by "cutting back wasteful spending & stopping more parasites & beneficiaries from being bred."
Hope you've shared the plan with Nicolla Willis.
Not sure how they'll implement it, but presume you've got that sorted too.
All governments waste money, National has been no exception in the past, and its an illusion to think this Coalition are going to find any think like meaningful funding for policies like tax cuts from wasteful spending.
Besides, they cut numbers in the Public Service by freezing vacant posts, resulting in increasing numbers of outside Consultants contracted at 3 x the rate, to enable work to be done.
The figures were public knowledge & actually $14.6 Billion over 4 years as reported on RNZ, Newshub, TV1 News etc
NB I agree there has been wasteful spending under Labour, plenty of it, just that its an illusion to think the National coalition can fund these kind of big tax cuts & Rebates from cutting wasteful spending.
And it's fiscally irresponsible to confirm tax cuts will go ahead based solely on some vague ideas of where they might find the money from.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496895/national-s-tax-plan-and-costings-what-you-need-to-know
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/30/n...nded-revealed/
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...r-changes.html
... deleted ...
BB, from what I've seen there's been mixed controls on spending in different areas in the Public Service with some having had extremely tight control on budgets while others seemed quite lax.
Grant Robertson tightened budgets again earlier this year but at that stage Labour/Greens were ahead in the polls, Hipkins was popular, Luxon deeply unpopular, they expected to win the election & it was just in response to the cost of living crisis, inflation & debt levels.
You seem to have focused on just one area & the infrastructure work you refer to above & now contracted out used to be done by our old 'Ministry of Works'.
But that is only one area & there are many other govt departments where the work is predominately done by employees or Public Servants.
Sorry I don't understand, could you be specific what stuff have I made up but presented as fact ?
Let me know if I'm mistaken or significantly misrepresented something. Happy to be corrected.
I'm not that angry about the result, disappointed yes though I was also disappointed in Labour, - but the focus has switched from Labour in govt to this coalition govt and just as Labour was held to account, now this govt will be held to account & the same level of scrutiny.
What I am furious about is repealing the Smokefree 2025 legislation, that is going to be devastating, thousand of lives will be lost, strokes, amputations, carcinomas of the tongue & mouth, blindness, billions in healthcare costs for the next generation who take up smoking, all preventable.
There's 2 parts to this, helping hard core smokers quit, PLUS- stopping the next generation of young people starting smoking in the first place & becoming addicted.
In my view, next Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti should resign if his govt goes ahead with repealing Smokefree2025.
You are getting worse BS. Meds not working?
The huge challenge in front of the new government to reverse the retardation of our education system, brought about by the introduction of woke and decisive racist policies and requirements into the school curriculum.
A curse on Ardern, Hipkins and Labour for the huge damage they have done to students with their brainwashing garbage.
It’s no wonder that more and more parents are prepared to make the sacrifice and send their children to private schools where learning and becoming educated in the basics to pursue a successful and fulfilling vocation are paramount.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/edu...g-our-students
The Education Act provides for the Minister to issue a statement of National Education and Learning Priorities and the current version runs to five pages. Literacy is referenced five times and never as a primary driver. Te Reo get 22 mentions, and English, well, not a single reference. Nor science, as it happens.
There are eight objectives; mostly inclusive language about tikanga, culture and reducing barriers. One did stand out, to “Enhance the contribution of research and mātauranga Māori in addressing local and global challenges”.
While myself and others are disappointed to see the Smoke-free legislation scrapped, l don't think we need to get too emotive about it.
It's not as if the new coalition is going to say thou shall smoke, and hold a gun to your head if you don't.
The price of fags alone should be a deterrent.
And what do you see when you go to open your packet?
A sign that says smoking kills!
Backed up by a photo of rotten gums.
Maybe it's an intelligence test?
Whilst BS & other pink/red party supporters continue to hold on to the severely corrupted premise that State is the fixer of all society's problems (including their own), it shouldn't be surprising that they, therefore, become excessively emotive on these sorts of discussions.
Sadly, whilst maintaining this corrupted thinking, a natural psychological defense mechanism for this type of character is to act & communicate irrationally toward anything & anyone who they see as encouraging individual responsibility & reducing the marauding powers of a Nanny State.
The only true, long-lasting, solution to our problems is for the respective individual, family & community to take responsibility for their own actions (or lack of) and therefore outcomes.
Many will remember buying cigarettes in the pub - smuggled in illegally on the boats to avoid customs. One occasion I remember was customs in Dunedin finding hollowed out ships-masts stuffed with huge quantities of fags - cigarette cartons. There was an extremely active black market back in the sixties. That's the sort of thing to be avoided, and other black market activities. There are other and better ways of getting people to change behaviour other than banning by age.
What's worse? Cut and paste of an insightful document, or the **** you post here BS.
It doesn't seem to be working for the widespread Meth & other illicit stuff through all our communities though.
Obviously Labour have handed out large rolls of bills to gangs - here boys, go train yourselves .. tax yourselves .. dont let us see you and we'll try to keep both eyes closed. There is no problem .. Yeah right.
God only knows how the Green's favoured carnation for all stance was likely to work, or be taxed if that ever got across the line too .. :)
A relatively small issue is smoking, cigarettes etc when compared to other things - vapes, the illegal stuff, green carnation are considered.
Was Road to Zero another paper bag over the head high cost campaign flicked over the way of the bods who were on the Smoke Free job - for a repeat instalment of more brilliance ? ;)
Civilisations are based on intricate webs of interlinked social responsibilities from families to the UN; otherwise chaos and annihilation. So finding a balance, between individual and communal or social responsibility, so that as many people as possible can thrive is the key.
I think Labour is now out of office as “the voters” considered they had pushed certain currently unwanted (including co-governance) social obligations too far.
I guess that explains why we have French words like ‘rendezvous’, ‘aperitif’, ‘avant-garde’, ‘cliche’, ‘cul-de-sac’, ‘dossier’, ‘menu’, ‘omelette’, ‘reservoir’, ‘ricochet’, ‘souffle’ etc etc etc in English. Only it doesn’t. According to you, words have to be changed if they are becoming part of another language.
You have widened the discussion to include foreign language loan words as well as words of foreign language origin. Both have a part to play in English, and other languages. Anyway you have kinda destroyed any complaint against Te Reo for doing the same whether they change the spelling of the foreign language word to fit in with pronunciation or spelling patterns or not, or whether they use an existing word but give it a new meaning, because English has done it all. Of course both Māori and English continue to change.
English was in the position of Māori today. It was under threat from a coloniser’s language (French and before that Norse Danish.) So it adopted words sometimes with spelling changes sometimes not, and it adapted grammar and simplified inflexions. With language development and survival, anything goes…
One can still be a rabid rightie, appreciate Māori, encourage its survival and yet not want its use forced upon people unwillingly or for political purposes. Winston Peters could have made his point about Māori names for government departments without his “boat on the road” comment. Just as English words have recently changed or added meanings, so too have Māori words. He did not need to express a failure to understand linguistic development.
Derogatory comments don't prove an argument.
No because why should some Government schools be different to others?
And despite your claims I'm not a rabid lefty. Quite centrist actually, and that's why I quite like some of the changes the new Government will implement.
Not just all of them as I have an open mind...
Charter schools is a way around union membership and lets them reduce the average conditions for teachers.
I'm not sure how any of their changes will prevent, rather than accelerate, people moving to Australia.. which is why I believe they will soon make a move on the recent Aussie citizenship changes to trap people in NZ.
Primitive language with no conception of how to evolve into fit for purpose in the modern world - that’s the Maori language today as the elitist Māoris & woke pakeha want it.
Meanwhile, they have been forcing our education system to go backwards by de-emphasising the basics (reading, maths, science) and forcing woke topics like tikanga etc etc BS into the school curriculum.
Go to any kindergarten and childcare centres which receive government funding and you will see it in action. Retard everyone back to the primitive past - that’s Ardern, Hipkins and Labour government in action.
Back to the future.
Same bankrupt logic & woke leftist mindset which says that only Māoris can decide and have any day as to whether they continued with cannibalism and trade in slaves.
Not when the Maori language is being forced down the throats of NZers, especially the young and impressionable.
Kiss my arse, Daytr.
I am not sure if you are being serious now. I can only conclude that it seems to me that you just don’t like Te Reo Māori.
I can’t say whether those people would have liked their English names, or their French or any Māori names for that matter. Maybe they would have thought of them as “daft”. Unfortunately they never got to live to find out. I am Thinking Alexander Or rather Ἀλέξανδρος was tolerant of different languages and the local language names they called him (perhaps provided they were not derogatory in meaning) as intermarriage was encouraged to knit his various territories together. The Romans were quite successful in leaving Latin linguistic remnants behind in the languages that took over in their former territories.
Edit: The various Māori transliterations for in turn the English transliteration of Alexander for the name Ἀλέξανδρος seem to be:
Arekanara
Arekaharana
Arehanara
Araketenara
Maori does not use the letter “L” sound.
Never forget, " the left is a lie " !!
The speakers and users of a language determine how a language evolves. Whether concerted efforts to preserve and foster it are successful remain to be seen. Te kohanga Reo immersion has been relatively successful I think. However it is unlikely that there will be a Māori Empire to give the language a global reach.
Which other languages do you consider “primitive”. Others in the Malayo-Polynesian group? What makes a language primitive for you?
Hark at the Left: NZ citizens should have no say in, or even an interest in, the naming conventions regarding government departments and notable New Zealand entities. Likewise an interest in languages is also verboten. The Left’s attitude can best be summarised as: “shut up, we will do whatever we like and you’ll get no say”.
New Zealanders do get a say however, via the electoral process & in the case of ‘Hato Hone St John’, via the donations (or otherwise) that they make to that organisation.
I guess we can look forward to: ‘Whakaoranga Ope Tua Salvation Army’ in due course.
‘Hoki Mai Nga Hoia Hononga Returned Services Association’ will be a bit of a mouthful.
White people wanting a say on how the Maori language evolves. What self entitled BS & arrogance.
And I haven't referred to Labour's renaming of every department, just the evolution of Te Reo, but this the attack dog mentality on these threads is just poor rhetoric.
Do any of you ever debate without hurling, quite unfounded I might add, insults?
It certainly doesn't win the argument.
It looks defensive, I.e I have nothing better to say than name calling and grandiose lefty generalizations that have no foundations and or are hugely exaggerated.
Seriously is this the best you can do?
And then there's Balance's fixation with his own arse.
That is one demented sick puppy there.
‘Vladimir Putin’ becomes ‘Wakamere Putene’. On it goes. ‘Russia’ is ‘Ruhia’, apparently.
@Logen
You persist I'm making Daytr's point, whether you realise it or not.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/smokef...8X&&ref=topbox
Smokefree legislation would have driven cigarette black market - Christopher Luxon
Quote:
“To say that actually, you can concentrate all that distribution in a few shops and you have one smoke shop in one small town in New Zealand, you can’t not tell me that will be a massive target for ram raids and crime; there will be an increased black market - an untaxed black market - for [cigarettes],” he said.
Another one potentially for Labour's Gangland supporters & 'Go Easy on the poor Ram Raiding disadvantaged kids' to prosper & profit from if left unchanged etc.. ? ;)
Sounds like the new Govt is far more awake than the last dozy mob of incompetents ;)
They also voted to keep cannabis illegal despite having less medical risks than alcohol let alone tobacco.
If a Pakeha and a Maori have a baby, is the baby….
A) Pakeha
B) Maori
Let me know the answer.
It’s a bit on the nose for you to tell ‘Pakeha’ that they should have no say in their own country, simply because of their genetic heritage.
Would you also tell ‘Maori’ people like David Seymour and Winston Peters that they should have no say as well?
I am married to a Maori lady and I feel that even some Maori don't want to push language down anyones throats. In fact they Maori are more upset when Maori don't want to learn their own language. If you asked any person in NZ to be open with their opinion you might be surprised. I for one love the Maori culture but understand, when it is not their heritage to not want to speak it or learn it. PS I voted for one of the three in charge
Not condoning the proposed change to smoke free, but aside from all the other drugs on the "black market", I'm not sure how many would know that the tobacco black market is thriving already, and has been for years since the government has continually been making it more difficult or impossible for smokers to afford their ciggies. Tobacco grows like a weed as well, almost as well as Marijuana. Governments can't eliminate legal drug consumption, by continually raising tax on the product. It just doesn't and isn't working on the 'tail' population who still use. Making them illegal doesn't work either.
Tuku ‘Underpants’ Morgan (a Welsh surname indicating Welsh heritage) says that (part)Maori will fight “this government” “in the courts, in the streets, and on social media”. In doing so they will be fighting the people of New Zealand, because this government is an expression of the democratic will of the people of New Zealand.
All this talk of fighting and unrest by the likes of Willie Jackson and Tuku Morgan….it seems we are looking at violence and worse if (part)Maori do not get ‘their way’.
Maori vote overwhelming for Labour (and now Te Pati Maori) in order to get special ‘delivering for Maori’ policies….and then get stroppy when more broad-based political parties take power and aim to govern for all New Zealanders.
It's for no one else to judge what heritage they prefer to identify as & perhaps it's both .
Only a non Maori would ask such a question.
They are two people within a race & they aren't arguing how the language evolves, they are arguing its use as the pre-eminent language for branding & signage. Two quite different things.
Seriously what are you afraid of?
That te reo evolves as a language?
Take a look at yourself and your motivations for such questions.
‘Te Reo’ is evolving as a language? You could have fooled me. Won’t admit new letters that would create new sounds, so where is the evolution? It seems the language is still stuck in the 1800’s, and renaming ‘Saint John’ as ‘Hato Hone’ is evidence enough. What you claim is evidence of a language evolving is actually the exact opposite. Logic is not your strong suit.
The problem with the Maori language is that the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was forcing it down the throats of NZers along with all the other divisive racist policies - and by stealth with no mandate from NZers.
If the language is so shxt hot, why did the government have to bribe, threaten and force its usage?
Why shift the focus of the school curriculum towards Maorification (including the language) and de-emphasize the sciences, technology, maths and English?
Why do kindergarten have to show Maori language & cultural proficiency and teaching to receive government funding? (And don't debate this one with me as I have asked our local kindergarten about all the Maorification and why they are forcing it down the throats of 2 years old).
Why do you think that private schools are booming and parents are making sacrifices to send their children there (at cost of $25k to $45k a year)?
I am going to afford you the courtesy of answering. Please do so as I have answered your question.
I am wondering where and when you studied English. There are plenty of sounds in other languages that English also does not have
With respect to the alphabet and just keeping the comparisons to Europe, Slovak has an extended Latin alphabet with 46 letters, including four diacritics. C’mon England pull your finger out ;) and admit more letters to your alphabet.
Back in NZ, Māori has vowel sounds not found in English. All languages will transliterate some names and some words from other languages to fit with native phonology and alphabets.
Oh boy!
This is Winston not only overshadowing the second of Chris Luxon's biggest ceremonial moments, but as predicted quickly establishing himself (with the media) as the centre of attention in this coalition govt.
Im not alone in saying Luxon's going to have to find some way of establishing he's in charge or risk the perception Winston's running the show.
Remember Luxon, Willis & Bishop all said please please please don't make us have to work with Winston.
Winston doesn't forget.
What does everyone else think?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...deputy-pm.html
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...deputy-pm.html
Good on Winston! 3 cheers to him adding the steel to National’s spine.
I for one think it is the best thing to happen for NZ.
Winston is spot on given the $105 million in bribes Ardern gave out to MSM. The first tranche leading into the 2020 election!. Journos are being exposed as activists on a daily basis, wetting themselves at a return to normalcy, In recent days, Forbes, DeBoni and Campbell have laid bare their activist leanings. Now add Lynch to the list. They aren't journalists. They are mouthpieces for the Marxist agenda, whether they realise it or not. They think they need to spread their doctrine to the public.
Well it's wake up time. Who would have thought the woke would be made to wake up!
You obviously have not heard of good cop, bad cop.
You go, Winston. It is high time the msm & TVNZ/state broadcasters are reined in with their woke & leftist tendencies.
TVNZ & RNZ are absolute disgraces to the term ‘media independence’ given how pro-Labour and how woke they have been in the last 6 years.
We will not and must not forget how TVNZ never properly covered the Charlotte Bellis scandal and the Northland prostitute incident - incidences used by Hipkins & Ardern and the Labour Party to shut down challenges to & hard questions about the shambolic lockdown & quarantine regime so loved by communist minded Ardern.
Exactly.
Ardern & the Labour Party were all about communicating from the ‘one source of truth’ which we now know was a facade to cover up the dysfunctional inner workings of an incompetent government.
Remember Dr Sharma? And we now have revelations of multiple instances of bullying in the Labour Party - Kiri Allan and Ginny Andersen well & truly let that cat out if the bag.
What you describe has nothing to do with te reo being freely spoken.
You have not answered my question at all, I have clearly stated I am not discussing what Labours policies were in regards the utilization of te reo.
My question wasn't to you either it was to Logen Ninefingers on what his problem is with te reo as a language?
And as far as I am concerned it's a beautiful language.
We are already seeing the ugliness of electing a Far Right government. And the obvious racism is on display here for all to see.
Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgusting but that's par for the course from you.
You asked what is the problem with te reo Maori.
I gave you a fulsome reply and you had to go away and think hard with an answer - which is no answer!
As I have stated before, Te reo is a primitive language fit for a primitive culture which had no grounding in the sciences, maths, technology and the modern world. It is beautiful to you but ugly to others.
You want beautiful - try French or Mandarin. You want ugly - try German and te reo.
And te reo is especially ugly when it is used with little relevancy to reality. Try Waka Kotahi - WTF is that? Everyone in NZ understands NZTA and its role whileas Waka Kotahi will forever be remembered for potholes and transport deficiencies. As for te Whatu Ora (the Living Eye), WTF has that got to do with Health NZ? Now Te Whatu Ora will always be associated with the failed health system implemented by this Labour government.
We also have a government forcing te reo down the throats of NZers - to appease its Maori cabal and to cement in Maori votes - at the expense of all other NZers.
If you cannot see how that is so destructive to the future of NZ and NZers, then you are indeed indoctrinated beyond redemption.
There is none as blind as those with eyes but will not see and ears but will not hear. You, Daytr, is an outstanding example of that!