As always here's Bruce with a great analysis of the thing: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4109984a1865.html
pretty much my thoughts, I mean sure I'd like to see more companies come to market, but this one to me is quite speculative...
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As always here's Bruce with a great analysis of the thing: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4109984a1865.html
pretty much my thoughts, I mean sure I'd like to see more companies come to market, but this one to me is quite speculative...
Its laughable really but stranger things have happened, but I won't be riding this wave.Good luck to anyone investing in this, it all reminds me of the days of tulips everyone is getting in on the sharemarket.
well at this stage the ipo does look like a bit of a pipe dream but hey you never know look what happened to 42 below . In saying that i wouldnt think of puting money into them at this stage ill leave it up to those silly enough and or brave enough to be convinced by a 30 second ad to put money into a business with little financial information(look at the prospectus for a start). In saying that i wish those well who put there money where there mouth is
I just saw the ad on TV now.... Wouldn't touch this coy with a barge pole if they have to resort to these sorts of things to attract investors (not to mention how much money they're draining in promoting it...)Quote:
quote:Originally posted by coge
The TV campaign is pitch to those with no experience in the NZSE, so alarm bells are sounding to me. Simple, eh?
Absolut can ya give me ya friends phone number I've got an old bicycle frame I want to sell.
LOL @ Scuffer :D:D:DQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
Absolut can ya give me ya friends phone number I've got an old bicycle frame I want to sell.
Maybe you could float it on the NZAX, Mark Weldon will do a write up for the papers welcoming you to the NZ stockmarket! ;)
I could what a good idea its the perfect colour GREEN:D:D:D
You just to secure a supplier to dredge out the bikes in the Amsterdam ****s & you have a more feasible business than a burger chain!Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
I could what a good idea its the perfect colour GREEN:D:D:D
For advertising I suggest you get one of the successful riders in le Tour de France to wear a green jersey.
What a good idea I would need a good rider because the wheels fell off years ago.:D:D:D
Shane Cameron can have the company logo tattooed on his back, for exposure in the States!
Hey Shasta love ya ideas I crack up laughing, they will be a few on the ADY thread wondering if we are complete nutters, well bud gotta go out going to watch Transformers gonna see if there is any way to turn an old bike frame into a gourmet burger,catch ya later.:D:D:D
Maybe you can raise $250k so you can bring the bike to the guys at American Choppers to pimp it for ya. Get Grant Sammy to put a value of $500k after the American Chopper dudes have build the bike. :DQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Scuffer
Hey Shasta love ya ideas I crack up laughing, they will be a few on the ADY thread wondering if we are complete nutters, well bud gotta go out going to watch Transformers gonna see if there is any way to turn an old bike frame into a gourmet burger,catch ya later.:D:D:D
Quite a lot of money being spent on that. The following was from an article in The Herald a couple of days ago:Quote:
quote:Originally posted by trackers
... not to mention how much money they're draining in promoting it
Has anyone told that bloke on the telly rustling horses and selling vacuum cleaners to get his $1000 worth of Burger Fuel shares how much of his hard-earned cash will be used just to get the thing listed?
The prospectus estimates the IPO will cost Burger Fuel $1.2 million - that's 8 per cent of the $15 million being raised. A pretty hefty whack, even for a company that believes it is worth $60 million.
Brokerage fees for the float are 3 per cent of the money raised - plus a 1 per cent success fee. That's $600,000. So give or take $30,000 of independent directors fees, it looks like more than $500,000 is being spent on marketing.
Last throw of the dice for the shareholders involved. If they can't get the IPO off the ground it will go under. One way to get the vendor finance back.
I'm in for GBI. I can see it becoming the framework of NZX's new carbon trading exchange
I have just read the advert and prospectus and I agree with sentiment on this thread. My max investment, some time in the furure, will only be $9.00 in a 1/3 burger with Brei and salad! Let's hope they are still a float when I pass one of their stores, LOL.
Looks like despite all odds that this one is going to list!
Reading between the lines, it seems that they must have been not to short of the $8mill. Hence why they are only extending by a week and the founding s/holders will "make up" any difference.
Who would have thought eh!
NZX Regulation Decision
BurgerFuel Worldwide Limited ("BFW")
Application for Waiver from NZAX Listing Rule 7.12.2
Background
1. BurgerFuel Worldwide Limited ("BFW") is currently undergoing an initial public offer of ordinary shares and options which are intended to be listed on the NZAX market. BFW is seeking up to $15 million with a minimum subscription level of $8 million. The offer opened on 18 June 2007.
2. The offer timetable outlined in BFW's prospectus is as follows:
- Offer Opening Date - 18 June 2007
- Offer Closing Date - 16 July 2007
- Anticipated allotment of shares and options - 23 July 2007
- Expected quotation and trading on NZX - 25 July 2007
3. BFW reserved the right to vary the offer opening and closing date subject to NZX requirements.
4. As of today's date, BFW has not received the minimum subscription level of $8 million.
5. The Board of BFW has decided, if allowed by NZX Regulation ("NZXR"), to amend the offer period by extending the Offer Closing date to 23 July 2007. As a result of this change, the likely allotment and quotation date of shares and options would be 27 July 2007.
Application
6. BFW has requested a waiver from Listing Rule 7.12.2 in order to allow the closing date to be extended to 23 July 2007.
7. In support of the application, BFW has submitted that:
a. The founding shareholders of BFW have decided to subscribe for any shortfall in the public offer to ensure that the minimum level of $8 million is achieved. BFW believes that this is information is significant to the investing public and that the offer period should be extended in light of this announcement.
b. Early subscribers to the offer are not significantly affected by the extension of the offer period as the anticipated quotation date has only moved out by 2 days.
c. The prospectus clearly states that BFW reserved the right to vary the offer closing date.
Listing Rule 7.12.2
8. Listing Rule 7.12.2 provides that:
Extension of Closing Date: An NZAX Issuer shall not extend the closing date for applications to subscribe for new Securities unless, at least five Business Days prior to the original closing date, the NZAX Issuer has notified NZX of the extension, and of the new closing date. An NZAX Issuer shall not, without the prior consent of NZX, extend a closing date more than once.
Decision
9. On the basis that the information provided to NZXR is full and accurate in all material respects, NZXR has decided to grant BFW a waiver from NZAX Listing Rule 7.12.2 to allow BFW to extend the closing date of the offer by one week until Monday 23 July 2007.
10. This waiver was granted on the conditions that:
a. BFW must immediately announce to the market, upon approval by the NZX of that announcement, that the closing date for the offer is being extended by a period of one week;
b. The announcement shall contain information relating to the founding shareholders' announcement and the new timetable.
Reasons
11. In coming to the decision to grant BFW a waiver from NZAX Listing Rule 7.12.2, NZXR has considered the following matters:
a. The announcement by the founding shareholders to pick up any shortfall means that the minimum subscription level will be achieved and BFW shares and options will proceed to quotation. NZXR is satisfied that this is important information to prospective investors in BFW.
b. Early subscribers of BFW shares and options are not significantly disadvantaged by having the quotation date extended by 2 days.
c. The prospectus outlined that BFW reserved the right to amend the offer closing date as is common in prospectuses.
d. There is a precedent for extensions of closing dates and in terms of the quotation date, this extens
NO surprises here then!
5:00AM Tuesday July 17, 2007
By Christopher Niesche
Photo / Martin Sykes
Burger Fuel's initial public offering has failed to raise the minimum $8 million it needed to float on the share market but will still go ahead after its founding shareholders said they would make up the difference.
The offer, which was due to close yesterday, has been extended for a week. It has been promoted on TV and through Burger Fuel stores.
The company had aimed to raise $15 million, with a minimum subscription of $8 million.
Director Josef Roberts said yesterday he could not reveal how big the shortfall was but said he and founder Chris Mason would make up the difference.
"The founding shareholders of [Burger Fuel] have decided to subscribe for any shortfall in the public offer to ensure that the minimum level of $8 million is achieved," the company said in its application to the NZX for an extension.
"[Burger Fuel] believes that this information is significant to the investing public and that the offer period should be extended in light of this announcement."
Advertisement
AdvertisementThe NZX agreed to extend the offer to July 23 and to push back the listing date by two days to July 27.
The burger chain, which has international ambitions, said in its prospectus that total sales in the March year rose 54 per cent to $16.4 million.
Looks like these guys are going to "fund' a company that they already own, hoping for a exit somehow!!!
1600 buyers from all that advertising. Hope their A&P spend is more productive.
I think they have just confirmed to the market that this is a dog.
It wouldnt be a dog if they priced it right and gave a more realistic business plan and strategy. AT $60 million and have BF stores dotted around the world is selling a dream, not reality.
I dont think dream gives them the right credit i think pipe dream might be more realistic reality especially given what they thought the company was worth:D
I'm still rolling around the floor laughing about these guys.
Selling shares from a burger joint to a target market of students.
Right, back to flipping burgers.
Yes, no doubt the extra they buy will be drip fed onto the market over coming monhts, further undermining its price.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by whatsup
Looks like these guys are going to "fund' a company that they already own, hoping for a exit somehow!!!
Will they be taking a loan from the company they owned to the company they partially own, then bought shares in the company they owned by borrowing funds from the company they now partly own.
Do you think they will be silly enough to try list this share a premium?
Picks for opening/closing?
6 Months time?
If they only got 1600 investors that would hardly cover the advertising campaign.
So they've still got to cough up $6.4M themselves, and they've got 1600 shareholders who (I would imagine) don't know much about holding shares, that need to be managed.
If I had $6.4M I can think of better investments than a burger chain start-up.
Actually, it's pretty hard to come up with worse ones. But maybe that's what they said about Maccas.
How easy is it to go short with a NZX stock? I'd like to with this one.
Well, if you can list this company at a premium then the boys at Burgerfuel will reward you handsomely.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by upside_umop
Do you think they will be silly enough to try list this share a premium?
However, the old hog suspects that you can't, and neither can Burgerfuel's advisors.
If you want a slice of Burgerfuel, wait patiently.
Good point, you can short sell NZX stocks by using CFDsQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Caesius
How easy is it to go short with a NZX stock? I'd like to with this one.
Get ya old bicycle frames here two for the price of one.[}:)]
What is CFD?Quote:
quote:Originally posted by trackers
Good point, you can short sell NZX stocks by using CFDsQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Caesius
How easy is it to go short with a NZX stock? I'd like to with this one.
I know that you can only short sell if you can get your hands on some stock. Burgerfuel wont have many shareholders, so will be hard to get stock to short, unless the promoters wants to lend you their stock so you can short it...LOL :D
Contract For Difference. You're just winning - or losing - with the margins. Like most derivatives, CFDs are highly-leveraged. Only one local player in NZ AFAIK (there are others if you include buying on margin) and that's CMC Markets.
You can effectively go short by using a CFD, and never touch the stock/share from which the CFD derives its value.
Contracts for Difference Bling
The definition of a Contract for Difference is an agreement (made between two parties) to exchange, at the closing of the contract, the difference between the opening and closing prices, multiplied by the number of shares detailed in the contract.
I doubt very much you'll be able to short Burger Fuel with CMC Markets though...
Last time I looked you could only trade the top 50 (or so) NZX stocks and BurgerFuel is not even on the NZX... it's listing on NZAX...
Hi Warthog,
I think you will find OMF do NZ CFD's too. DMA (Direct Market Access) as opposed to being market written, which CMC do.
Regardless though, I couldn't see any one doing CFD's on BF for the forseable future. As already mentioned, insufficient script and not on the NZX.
Burgerfuel list on NZAX 27th july watch these dive from the dollar down.[V]
When does GBI list?
They should go straight to the main board!
Scuffer - Have you sorted the minimum entitlement out yet?
These Burgerfuel type IPO's usually indicate the market is about to turn bearish...
I'm expecting a few more of these "flog off to the public" type companies coming to the market.
i found an old coffee machine the other day, & might give Mark Weldon a call...
Rod Petricevic wants me to list it & do a backlisting onto the NZX with his latest "idea".
NB, This is for amusement purposes only!
Ok, fess up who is buying Burgerfuel today!
I will buy if they give me a 100% guarantee that I will make more than inflation, go for it with the coffee machine it will be a big seller in the morning and at smoko, you would be able to day trade easy money, buy just before ten and sell at ten morning smoko sorted.:D Forgot to ask ya do ya want one of my old bike frames.[}:)]
Burgerfuel float raises a third of target
5:00AM Friday July 27, 2007
By John Drinnan
Burger and fries from Burger Fuel.
Burger Fuel majority owners Josef Roberts and Chris Mason have had to take a bigger bite of the fast-food chain after its share float raised a little over one-third of the original target.
The company had aimed to raise up to $15 million, with a minimum of $8 million, to take a place on to the NZAX.
Yesterday company chairman Peter Brook said total applications from 2380 shareholders had reached just $5.25 million.
This means Roberts and Burger Fuel founder Mason will chip in with $2.75 million to reach the $8 million threshold after splitting the remaining shares in the public pool.
Roberts says that he is "wiser now" after the float.
"It was a new experience and we know better how it works," he said.
The Burger Fuel stock will start trading on the NZAX today. The IPO (initial public offering) closed on Monday, having been extended by a week.
The company had a minimum subscription of just 1000 $1 shares, which it offered to customers at Burger Fuel.
The chain has 19 franchises and two outlets.
Roberts said the lower-than-expected outcome was due in part to negative media coverage but he acknowledged the company had overestimated the likely degree of support from brokers for such a small float.
It had sought customers as shareholders but the advertising, which included a TV campaign, aimed to promote the Burger Fuel brand as well as the float, he said.
That advertising - which was heavy for such a small float - had boosted sales at the chain.
At the proposed $15 million, that public float would have represented 25 per cent of shares, valuing the company at $60 million.
Roberts stood by the valuation, which he said represented the future expansion plans for the company.
But with Roberts and Mason forced to top up, independent shareholders have just 8.75 per cent of Burger Fuel.
The outcome means the two men own 90 per cent, with 34 per cent of the portion traded on the NZAX.
Brook said yesterday that the reaction to the float might have been affected by the emphasis on marketing Burger Fuel shares to customers.
The company was using the money to expand the chain in New Zealand and Australia and had looked at different options depending on the outcomes.
It would use the new capital to secure prime locations and undertake preliminary fit-out work.
Roberts said that with a lesser amount of capital the company was likely to move some new branches directly to franchises rather than holding them in company ownership at the start.
The franchise approach meant that the capital could be recycled and invested in new sites and fit-outs.
In Australia, where Burger Fuel already has one franchised store, the company would use the same franchise model as in New Zealand to expand.
Negative media coverage? Some of the coverage was irresponsibly positive about this shambolic overvalued IPO. Many people called a spade a spade yes, I'd love it if Roberts said the same: 'commentators got wise to how little the company was worth and told the public, undermining our sneaky stubstanceless advertising which cost most of what the IPO eventually raised.
Damn I wish I had a CFD account so that I could short these this morning...
I feel sorry though for the probably naive young investors for whom this will likely be their first experience of investing in the sharemarket. It may put them off forever.
It will teach these kids a valuable lesson.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!. I keep yelling this to my two teenage boys...do they listen...NO.
Oh well... such is life
what time do they start trading?
11 to midnight 7 days a week.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by peterb
what time do they start trading?
Offer at 1.02????????????
Haha, on the NZAX mateQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Toddy
11 to midnight 7 days a week.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by peterb
what time do they start trading?
Offer at 1.00. What, no buyers... 5c anyone [:0]
Tried that!
"Order is too far from market"
Where are you guys seeing the quotes? DB site does not have them showing that I can find.
Found it. Was using GBI as mentioned further up this page.
lol, I tried GBI too :P
...so whats da code??
777
Go on to your DB site and type BFW in the quick quote box. This is operating now
I assume that BFW will be showing up on the NZAX board as soon as it starts trading (NB... allow for the stupid 20 min delay )
BFW.NZX - Burger Fuel Worldwide Limited Ordinary Shares
Depth as at 11.35am
[u]Sellers</u>
100cents 1 25,000
102cents 1 9,600
[u]No Buyers</u>
Thanks Hoop. I could not find it in the NZAX list and of course GBI did not work.
Can't see how the 5c offer by FTG can be turned down as there is no market yet. And the fact that it would be the highest until I came in at 6c of course.
QOH,Quote:
quote:QOH-I feel sorry though for the probably naive young investors for whom this will likely be their first experience of investing in the sharemarket. It may put them off forever.
that is so true... I know of people that were scared off shares forever because of one bad beat...
I cannot be bothered reading all the 8 pages of this thread... why so much posting for a stock not worth talking about?
has anyone here admited buying into the IPO?
will anyone here be buying Burgerfuel shares ever?
This stock has disaster written all over it...
[8D]
.^sc
1000 shares traded at a $1 !!! [:0][:0][:0]
And there I was wondering whether to follow you 777 with a 6c bid
Utterly, utterly, hilarious. This thread is almost as much fun as the plus sms one!
It was probably one BFW insider selling to another to give semblance of respectability. Hey these guys have about $48000000 worth of shares to play with anyway.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Hoop
1000 shares traded at a $1 !!! [:0][:0][:0]
And there I was wondering whether to follow you 777 with a 6c bid
"IPO is too far from market"
so $1000 worth of shares traded in its first two hours as a listed co????
is this because all buyers are "too far from market"????
What does "too far from the market actually mean? As in the bids (0) are an infinite distance away from the offers?
classic
Seems to have really taken off now .... up to 1100 traded. Who would buy 100?.....
Would this IPO be classified as the most embarrassing event of 2007?
Cant be worst than Plus SMS... LOLQuote:
quote:Originally posted by 777
Would this IPO be classified as the most embarrassing event of 2007?
Paul NZ.
welcome to the thread...
this stock is an absolute disaster, Im picking it will fall 50-60cents when it bottoms out... many posters here have said this will be a disaster float, (including myself) ...with not one buyer on the bid side is something I have never seen for a first day IPO...
The advertisement was relentless from burgerfuel... I even saw a recent advert on the stocknessmonster site...
This company new analysts would dump this stock so managment had to attract/ and fool the public by any means neccessary...
[8D]
.^sc
Probably a student. Probably using their parents eftpos card too.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by paul_nz
Seems to have really taken off now .... up to 1100 traded. Who would buy 100?.....
They will be maxed out now so BF will miss out on a customer tonight.
They might have used there interest free student loan to buy the shares hoping at the end to be able to buy a burger with the profit, take out the capital and pay the loan off before interest kicks in.
Sounds a winner, wonder if they got fries with there shares.
If this was to fall to 50-60c are there any potential buyers here? I posted before the IPO that I love the burgers and I'm definitely a potential buyer but only at the right price. Unfortunately, like most here, my right price is a long way 'from market' right now.
No bids though could be brokers refusing to enter those that they think are too low. This would of course be manipulation of the market. All bids should be entered so the market can decide the value.
Etrader,Quote:
quote:etrader-take out the capital and pay the loan off before interest kicks in.
Interest only kicks in if I leave the country and work overseas...
[8D]
.^sc
I wonder who pays for the advertsing. Probably racked up on 20th of the month accounts won't be much left of the funds from the IPO as Burger Fuel Ltd pays for it. What a joke.
These guys will still treat this company like they own 100% of it. Watch this company take a dive.
Unless he means that he reckons Nats will get rid of it, if they get in (which they will)Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Shrewd Crude
Etrader,Quote:
quote:etrader-take out the capital and pay the loan off before interest kicks in.
Interest only kicks in if I leave the country and work overseas...
[8D]
.^sc
Trackers what the nats do around student loans is out of our control/ and unconfirmed at this stage?... you are a speculator Trackers...
the interest free situation is a big question for me to stay or go...
EG not only is it the interest I save by staying, it is also the return I can get by not paying it off... its a double whammy...
trackers, vote Labour... do it for your buddy shrewd...
[8D]
.^sc
At 50 cents, the company has a value of $30M, which is still way over valued in my books. Maybe 10 cents is a price Bling may look at it. Only look, NOT buy.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FarmerGeorge
If this was to fall to 50-60c are there any potential buyers here? I posted before the IPO that I love the burgers and I'm definitely a potential buyer but only at the right price. Unfortunately, like most here, my right price is a long way 'from market' right now.
A PE of 3 is the highest. I would go. Equates to bearly $500,000 for the whole company. So it should be in the penny dreadful stakes.....
Why OTM you stingy bugger..lol :D There is some value in those hills with the branding and existing stores.
I put BFW on my watch list just for fun. :D
bids at 80c...
although only for 175 shares i now notice...???
175 shares at 80c plus brokerage of a minimum of 29.90 costs just over 97c per share. Why would you do it.
And I always take into account buy and sell brokerage so that makes it $1.14 breakeven. Not something I would do.Quote:
quote:Originally posted by 777
175 shares at 80c plus brokerage of a minimum of 29.90 costs just over 97c per share. Why would you do it.
Cheers Bling, a 'look' at 10c is very generous of you! The disappointing thing here is that the product is actually good, but now management/governance/owners look both greedy AND foolish which I think means we have to discount the company even further than before the IPO.
Onthemoney.
$500,000 - now that's a bit cruel!
Let's say we took over BF and just wanted to lie on the beach! Hence we built no more stores.
22 current stores @ an average of $1m sales each - taking 6% royalty = $1.32M
Take out say $500K for Head Office functions: GM, marketing person, a couple of admin and a couple of op's people. That leaves us with $820K. But then we also own a couple stores ourselves so lets add a conservative $250K for that. So that takes us back over $1M EBITDA pa.
So even with your PE of 3 we would be paying quite a bit more than $500K!
In regards to the "too far away from market" I wonder if we each stacked bid orders behind the 85c order, and then subsequently each other, if we could then get to a 10c bid? THEN those above 10C remove their order - would the 10c order be permitted to remain?
FTG my thoughts were based on the current situation....
OTM.
Yep that's the way I took it.
If you took the current situation there wouldn't be much that needs changing - other than a lot of bluesky spending on trying to grow the business quickly. I would imagine the HO infrastructure I mention above is already in place.
Shrewd Crewd has posted 4 times on this topic today despite earler saying it was not worth posting on - duh
A lot of the current stores are being propped up by the vendors.
Really!?
How do you know that?
Ask the franchisees. Check and see if they are happy?
Why can't they pay back the vendor finance?
As per the prospectus the AVERAGE franchise ebitda is over $100K. So unless there is misrepresentation in the prospectus I would suggest that struggling sites would be well in the minority. As it happens, I know a couple franchises well. Overall they say morale within the franchise group is very good.
Perhaps you need to be just a little careful with broadstroke comments OTM. :-)
disc - NOT a BFW s/holder
I suppose misrepresentation will be to the forefront when the franchisor rolls - what will the poor franchisees do then?
As I have said before this was a huge throw of the dice for the franchisors and time will tell.
Interesting clash between FTG and onthemoney here .... wonder whose right? .... onthemoney has proved his worth in the past ..... so lets see what eventuates over time
One thing the franchisees should be doing OK from all that advertising paid for by the punters .... one way of paying the advertising bill .... pretend to do an IPO
Sounds very complicatedQuote:
quote:Originally posted by etrader
Will they be taking a loan from the company they owned to the company they partially own, then bought shares in the company they owned by borrowing funds from the company they now partly own.
Have to agree winner great pubicity, all publicity is good don't they say.
Well I have never been to Burger Fuel but will no doubt give it a try now.
A report back to fellow sharetraders would be great.
The thing is I am probably like a lot of people in that I don't even know where the closest shop is. Probably one of the reasons not many invested in it.
Yes exactly.... If you wanted a bottle of 42 below you can get it. If you wanted a burger you need to wait till they have an outlet (built at considerable expense).