Remember this JB, It's here, the end of November any share you like to bet against NAVO, very lucky you didn't bet a bottle on this one.
I bet RCR.
NAVO up 42%.
RCR up 52%.
I declare myself the winner.
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yes lost that one do you hold RCR---still holding NAV sp not moving much still making good EBIT with gold at $1420ozAUD costs should be in the 800's for this Qtr all going to plan to top 100koz for the 10/11 -- Cummins Range REE listing allocations soon
JB,
What's with the obsession over manipulation? 2 lawsuits have been filed and you can bet HSBC and JP Morgan will front up with armies of lawyers.
Manipulation will be difficult to prove and only once in its history has the CFTC successfully sued. Commodities like silver and gold are speculative, only the big boys should play.
As soon as gold and silver prices take a hit it's back to beating the manipulation drum, goldbugs who think it should be $5000/oz.
I'd say given how rigged the legal game is in the States that Skol is correct on the manipulation front. Any lawsuit will probably be unsuccessful.
but..
When they (JP Morgan and HSBC), decide the future fundamentals will mean losses for their current trade, they will simply jump on the other side of the trade..
If the big shorters like JP morgan etc do jump on the other side they'll cause a massive spike esp. in the Silver price having 200moz+ short just to close out the position the small silver market would rocket
-I did believev JPM have good sized shareholding in many silver focused miners so maybe they see the writing on the wall for the silver price to stay low for much longer
yeah i know a spike is likely.. didnt want to climb into prediction territory :-)
How about those gold and silver prices just now? The MoneyChanger had this to say:
Quote:
Something's not right in the world. Silver and gold are simply ignoring the US dollar and climbing right along, thank you very much, right in the face of dollar strength against every other currency alternative. Remember that silver and gold are also alternative monies, offering the only hard alternative to every unbacked fiat money in the world. You are watching the de-coupling now, the world-wide revulsion against central-bank-created money out of thin air. Trouble is brewing, world-wide.
Headlines in the FT. Another sign of a bubble.
HK gold market hit by sophisticated scam
By Robert Cookson in Hong Kong
Published: December 2 2010 03:59 | Last updated: December 2 2010 03:59
Hong Kong goldsmiths have been sold hundreds of ounces of fake gold this year in one of the most sophisticated scams to hit the Chinese territory’s gold market in decades.
Industry executives say the scam – while not massive and hitting only the retail sector – uncloaks the increasingly elaborate gold swindles perpetrated by criminals in Asia as bullion prices soar to record highs of $1,400 a troy ounce.
.The counterfeits have shocked Hong Kong’s gold community not because of the amount involved, but because of their sophistication.
“It’s a very good fake,” said Haywood Cheung, president of the Chinese Gold & Silver Exchange Society, Hong Kong’s century-old gold exchange, highlighting how criminals are developing new techniques to commit an age-old fraud.
Mr Cheung said he was aware of at least 200 ounces – worth $280,000 – of the fake gold that had been discovered by jewellers and pawn shops. But he estimated that ten times that amount might have infiltrated the retail market. In comparison, the large gold bars held by central banks weigh 400 ounces and are worth nearly $560,000 each.
In one case, executives discovered a pure gold coating that masked a complex alloy with similar properties to gold. The fake gold included a significant amount of bullion – about 51 per cent of the total – alloyed with seven other metals: osmium, iridium, ruthenium, copper, nickel, iron, and rhodium.
The complex nature of the fakes suggest they were produced by a metalsmith with sophisticated equipment and extensive knowledge of metallurgical engineering.
Even Luk Fook Group, one of Hong Kong’s biggest jewellers, was tricked into buying $11,500 worth of fake gold this summer before putting its stores on alert. “This was the biggest hit ever,” said Paul Law, executive director of the firm.
In the past, counterfeit gold in Hong Kong and the rest of Asia was either rough and easy to detect, even to the naked eye, or involved gold-plated tungsten, a metal with a similar density to gold, but which traders and jewellers can easily identify.
The complexity of the latest batch of fake gold would have reduced the profitability of the scam, since it used a significant amount of bullion, and because iridium and osmium are expensive.
The fakes are extremely hard to detect by sight and touch alone. In most cases, they passed basic scrutiny, only to be revealed later by more sophisticated tests involving high temperatures and chemicals.
Industry executives stressed that the scam targeted the street-level sale of scrap gold to jewellers. Mr Cheung said none of the fake gold had infiltrated the much more bigger market for gold bars, which as is protected by more rigorous controls
Skol, I'm not too worried about this scam, won't affect me if I buy certified bullion. The street buyers might get pinged however, and that is part of the reason for their lower offer I suppose. I'm real keen on getting some bullion soon, before it goes over US$1400/oz for the last time..(he said, looking for a reaction).
But you didn't comment on my post from the Moneychanger: how did gold and the US$ go up together? Who's kidding who?
Gold an alternative money? Not for me it's not, it's a piece of metal, like lead or copper, but they're actually useful.
I'll stick with shares in a basket of currencies and considerable exposure to natural resources.
There's been rumours about fake gold for a while but this is the first concrete evidence I've seen of such a sophisticated rip-off.
I wonder how big this is?