New leader Luxon prob
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New leader Luxon prob
Judy's out, Luxon in now
In this PC world of diversity, which female will be deputy?
Luxon is not now, they may think he is, imho however he is not relatable to the middle they need to win regardless of his ability.
Ring ring.
Good afternoon, David Seymour speaking.
David, its the National party here, hey, we're in a spot of bother, Jude has fallen on her sword, and a few others are dropping their bundle, could you help out?
What, you mean they are filming another series of Dancing with the stars?
Er, not quite, but what say you dust off your Cv, and throw your hat into the ring?
I'll see what I can do...
Collins has confirmed on Twitter she's no longer the Leader. Mitchell & Luxon the frontrunners !!
Luxon with Nicola Willis as deputy or Mark Mitchell, we know who John Key will be backing, foregone conclusion.
Judith 'Dirty' Collins is gone! :)
Former National Party speaker and senior minister David Carter says it is "wonderful news" Judith Collins has gone.
David Carter pushed to become party president at the last annual conference but was not successful. He says it is "wonderful news" Collins is no longer leader - and National can win the next election if they get in behind a new leader.
"Judith sounds like she's gone. That's wonderful news for me. I wouldn't trust her after the way I was let down at annual conference," Carter said.
"She's attempted to rule by fear, and that doesn't work. Leadership is about gaining respect and admiration, you don't do it like that."
6 minutes ago
Breaking: Here is a statement from Jacqui Dean, who made the allegation that started this all. She confirms the statement was not about her and Bridges apologised at the time.
"About five years ago, Simon Bridges made remarks that upset me at the time. They were not about me, but they were inappropriate and not something I wanted to hear, National MP for Waitaki Jacqui Dean says.
“At the time there was an apology, but subsequently it has continued to play on my mind and with the recent reviews that have occurred in Parliament the feelings have been brought back up.
“What matters to me is that all of us have a clear understanding of what behaviour we should expect in a modern workplace environment.
“Simon and I have spoken a number of times over the past few hours and he has reiterated his apology.
“As I’m sure can be appreciated, the publicity around this has been upsetting and I ask that my privacy is respected on this.”
Actually - it was a quite effective method to get rid of Judith Collins ...
Judith took the bait and - hey - all good!
Clearly most of us (well, at least me) overestimated Judith's intelligence. While I didn't like her, I never would have thought that she is that dumb to bite.
Bring back Bill....
Firstly, as far as offensive comments go I would have thought his comments about Maureen Pugh would have been more offensive to most people, not least Maureen Pugh.
Secondly, I'm suprised we didn't hear Soimons copulation comments ages ago via one of Jamie-Lee's secret recordings. Clearly JRL must have concluded they were innocuous.
Thirdly, maybe Jacqui saw this as her best chance of making headlines, as flying under the radar is her default setting. If she likes to get offended at the drop of a hat then she may consider gravitating towards the political Left as they are past masters at it.
People are saying the shambles continues.
After weeks of rumblings and caucus meeting for 3 hours this morning, they are too scared to pick the wrong person as next leader & going to take several days to decide!
Not because they've got such brilliant candidates to choose between, but the opposite, there's no convincing standout leader & caucus is not confident anyone will be up to the task & stuff it up again.
IMO they, and any political party, should take as long as it takes, for the good of NZ, not just match any media deadline or the expectation of those who want to throw a rock from the sidelines.
Decide a strategy, who believes in the strategy, only choose from those who believe, and if you dont , either shut up, or get out of the way.
But everyone's known Collins was going to be rolled for several weeks.
It's been discussed in the media very day.
Surely caucus must have had time to formulate & coalesce around her replacement, just unsure of the timing pre or post Christmas.
Now the leaky ship National is looking rudderless, going in circles with no one in charge & the crew are all arguing with each other.
Typical Collins...
Collins, speaking to reporters while rushing to a taxi outside Parliament’s doors on Thursday afternoon, said she felt “very good, actually".
"It's a really hard job, and I've done everything I possibly could, and I just wish everyone well,” she said.
Asked if she regretted issuing a statement about demoting Simon Bridges last night, she said: "Never."
Shane Reti to lead nats.
Why even bother turning up to parliament with this depth of talent.
Read the voices of Labour & Green now - how they wished the deeply unpopular and judgement impaired Judith could have lasted until the next election.
No disrespect to Shane, he's clearly only there in a caretaker roll now & gone on Tuesday.
Even ex National MP John Carter said this afternoon, it would have been much better if caucus had sorted out the new leader today.
Instead, the dysfunction & divisiveness will only continue.
Never good optics to have an organisation leaderless because they're incapable of deciding who to choose. esp when you're wanting to project you're capable of running the country.
The next several days are going to be filled with speculation & rumour in the media, a lot of it not helpful to the party. e.g., did the board really unanimously condone Judith demoting Bridges last night & if so why? Should Goodfellow go now ? Who is this Jaquie Dean no one had heard of until now? Is Luxon too conservative & out of step with diverse modern NZ, too middle aged, too bald, too white, too 1950's ?
Similarly with Mark Mitchell & how will his private for profit Military & Security Contracting business which made millions off the Iraq war go down with middle NZ?
etc.
I agree, they need to bring the "centre" back to "centre-right".
But hey - this is only, if they want to have a fighting chance to win the next elections. About that I am not so sure anymore :) - I guess they really seem to enjoy to shrink their base and with that the polls.
No wonder she was gone burger.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...-press-release
Does Grant Robertson do it for you? :t_up:
Or are you more inclined towards Poto Williams?
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/...iction-policy/
Don’t be shy - both are right up your tree.
All good relevant comment, and questions that show you have more than a superficial interest in politics.
However, I take into account that unlike an employee giving 2 weeks notice, or a professional or company board member giving 1 months notice, Judith Collins was only rolled after 9 am this morn, and so those who decide on replacement need to give due consideration to all options, not just who shouts the loudest on the day.
The fact is they have more than 1 option, and more than 1 combination to consider, no ad hoc decision or band aid necessary.
In the eyes of the electorate, focus quickly shifts from how the new leader took the pass, and how long it took to get there, to how they play the ball once they have it.
In my view, succession planning was much easier under first past the post.
Under MMP, in opposition, they may give more consideration to who the main opponent is.
No doubt Don Brash would have an opinion on that.
At least NZ's Centre-right party knows when its leader has finally jumped the shark!
Boris Johnson has jumped the shark many times and still the UK's Hard Right Party hangs on to him for fear their house of cards will come tumbling down.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/uk/300...usiness-speech
Former Aussie PM Malcom Turnbull lambasts Morrison .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9SC9ON9gNA
The fact that Jacinda and her mob have left this woman in her portfolio is hard to believe. She is totally incapble of applying common sense because she doesn't appear to have any. Many will remember her demonstration of stupidity when she suggested removing the presumption of innocence afforded to alleged perpetrators of sexual assault. That was unbelievable.
Her appointment shows the problem within Labour. i.e. a shortage of competent mps.
Then, there's
- Kris Faafoi (hiding these days from scrutiny),
- Kelvin Davis (Maori criminals are misunderstood and must be protected from punishment so it's ok for corrections officers to be assaulted) and
- Megan Woods (Housing disaster and hiding behind the nincompoop Poto-loo Williams over the KO mess).
The Maori cabal in Cindy's government are meanwhile pushing ahead with divisive racist policies to gain power (3 Waters and Health already in the bag).
Well who'd have thought!
In this mornings Newshub poll, Shame Reti is absolutely miles ahead as preferred 'who should be the next leader of the National party' on 51%.
Way back in 2nd is Luxon on 31%, followed by Bridges 12% and then Mitchell 7%.
Not scientific but still over 12,000 votes.
Considering in the media Reti often gets dismissed as a potential leader as un-relatable, might shake the race up a bit.
Perhaps some decency is what people want in their leaders after all.
He comes across as a very intelligent and thoroughly decent person. Not sure he has got what it takes to lead though and get the votes needed, but who knows ? At the end of the day the Leader is chosen by caucus and I don't think Reti would have done himself any favours by being involved with Collins in the ridiculous and ill considered attempt to take down Bridges, that so spectacularly backfired.
It really is time for a bold change in the leadership and front bench with strong positions for young liberal leaning MPs, mixed with some of the younger conservative members of the caucus.
Nats need to be brave and try something new and fresh
Andrew Bayley that type of guy - seems to be pretty smart
Climber many mountains in his life
True ... but I still hope National gets eventually through its Game of Thrones phase.
It would feel really good to have for a change an opposition doing what they are supposed to do (constructively monitoring and appraising the government and being ready to take over the reign if required) instead of playing internal power games and forgetting on that way the interests of the people who voted for them and who pay for their salaries.
The political discussion yesterday shouldn't have been about Judiths callousness but about some unfit laws Labour pushed through under urgency.
Its bad enough to have a bad government, but a bad government in combination with an inept opposition is sheer terror.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nation...IQOTN5LXDWN2A/
National in turmoil as Judith Collins forced from power
26 Nov, 2021 07:50 AM
The MP at the centre of the Simon Bridges crude-comment saga says she's surprised and disappointed Judith Collins used it to demote Bridges - a move that's sparked yet more turmoil within the party and the demise of Collins' leadership.
Jacqui Dean says she raised Bridges' comments from 2017 with Collins several weeks ago in the context of the Francis review into Parliamentary behaviour.
Collins told Newstalk ZB's Mike Hosking today that she "felt between a rock and hard place" when she was told about the comment. She did not believe it had been properly dealt with at the time.
But many commentators believe Collins used the comment as a means to try to prevent Bridges' own aspirations and internal momentum to become party leader again - a move that backfired spectacularly when she was ousted yesterday.
Jacqui Dean raised Bridges comments with Collins several weeks ago, then no doubt after consultation with the toxic large marine mammal she waited for what she thought was the perfect time to dump her dirt.
She needs to retire and get out of parliament, and then maybe we can shut the book on the flithy and malignant 'Dirty Politics' saga that these 2 scumbags have been perpetrating for years.
And that shows a lack of politiical judgement. That rare gift that gives the ability to mind-read the hoi-polloi. Add to that his seeming lack of humour and I don't think he's quite the next P.M. Besides - he's boring. Keep looking National - there is an answer in your ranks.
He probably would need a bit more exposure .... but I agree - he feels like a decent man as well as competent in his field. Have not yet seen him trying to herd cats - i.e. don't know whether he would be a good party leader.
But hey - anybody would be an improvement compared to Judith!
Judith came to Dr Reti with a so-called 'serious allegation' that -
a) Had been dealt with internally 5 years ago.
b) She had been sitting on for several weeks i.e. it hadn't just that moment been revealed to her.
It looks like Dr Reti has backed her to deal with it the way she did, and he was going to be one of the 3 people fronting up at the press conference at 10 am - the others being Collins and Dean - to complete the hit job on Bridges.
Therefore IMO Dr Reti is far too weak of an individual to take on the leadership full time. Imagine allowing yourself to be complicit and to provide a veneer of respectability to a nasty political hit-job being pulled by the 'Dirty Politics' crew. Dr Reti should have seen Collins' stunt for exactly what it was and refused to support it.
My guess is that Simon Bridges will be re instated as Leader.
He WANTS the job, in his own words older and wiser now, and knows the territory, was rolled by a clumsy coup, many involved with that are no longer there.
Importantly in MMP, he does not rule out other parties who he could work with.
Who else would you want as your deputy, but a capable non threatening person who knows what teamwork means?
Shane Reti.
Luxon with matt doocey as deputy.
Wouldn't that make for a good photo.
No doubt Simon Bridges wants the job. However, the more important question is - do the NZ people want him as PM? I do have my doubts on that.
Just depends on whether National wants to stick for some more terms in opposition or whether they are ready to take on the government ...
Good point.
Attachment 13249
Attachment 13250
Attachment 13251
Soimon? The guy with the mangled way of speaking who has been embroiled firstly in the Jamie-Lee Ross saga & now in the Collins hit-job. Neither Ross or Collins would have had anything to work with if foot-in-mouth Bridges hadn't provided them with the raw materials. Bridges is seen as one of a string of failed leaders who have been unpopular with the public & moreover the view of the majority is that they would have seen us with 'open borders' and COVID maruading through the land if they had their way. Rightly or wrongly, the perception of the majority is that Jacinda kept us safe (or as safe as possible) while National would have overseen a debacle.
It is quite dunder-headed of the National cauces and National party supporters to continue to gravitate towards people who the majority either loathe or view as laughing stocks. For rusted-on National supporters the 'Crusher' was seen as 'tough', 'experienced', and 'smart', while everyone else viewed her as a stupid, nasty, vicious buffoon. So now National supporters need to look at Bridges with clear eyes as well, because he has just as many flaws & while it may be a neat redemption story if he gets the leadership back, IMO National will just be lurching from the frying pan to the fire.
Collins said in the press release that the decision had been made with the consent of National’s out-of-Parliament board.
“This evening, with unanimous support of the board of the National Party, Simon Bridges, Member for Tauranga, has been demoted and relieved of his portfolio responsibilities,” Collins said.
But National sources immediately disputed this with Stuff, and Goodfellow painted a very different picture in an email to members on Thursday afternoon.
“Yesterday, an allegation was raised with the Board of Directors regarding the conduct of a National Member of Parliament. As with all sensitive matters such as this, we must take them very seriously when they are raised,” Goodfellow wrote.
“In considering the matter, the Board unanimously supported a first step in seeking further information from the parties involved, and ensure that the Member of Parliament who was the subject of the allegations was given the opportunity to provide a considered response before any conclusions were drawn.”
“No specific penalties or actions were discussed, agreed, or endorsed by the Board at its meeting yesterday, beyond our support for an investigation in line with due process. It was not and is not a role of the Board to give approval to demote Caucus members or to take similar action.”
I'm sure there are a ton of NZ'ers of the 'I have always voted Labour,,,,,' variety or 'Our family have always been National supporters' types who didn't even notice Muldoon dragged national into the economic left until Lange/Douglas took it to the economic right. Looking at the electorates at the time the voters followed 'their party' - totally overlooking the policies. IOW the astute voter had to become a swinging voter.
To illustrate my point about voting against the unwanted party:
In 1984 the once popular Muldoon was dumped at the election - not because Nat voters stayed home. They voted Labour to keep Muldoon out.
Just a few thoughts.
Party's need to avoid giving voters reasons not to vote for them, just as much as reasons to vote for them, it shrinks the pool of potential supporters.
The glaring problem National face with Luxon is in modern liberal urban NZ, there's a lot of women, younger voters, urban liberal voters, etc,
who won't vote for National if Luxon is leader, because of his anti abortion, anti euthanasia, anti gay marriage, anti- drug reform (marijuana) stances.
For a lot on Kiwi's in 2021, regardless of his capabilities, that's not something they will accept in a prime minister.
Separating his evangelical Christianity beliefs from politics might work as a backbencher, but not as the leader in terms of the public.
Of course the conservatives in caucus (& there's a few of them, strongly religious etc) are not going to see this as a problem.
"As about exciting as the Taihape Public toilets." Pundits brutal assessment of Nats leader candidates.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/national-leadership-pundits-brutal-assessments-of-candidates-shock-at-judith-collins-attempt-to-destroy-simon-bridges.html
Described as "absolutely unproven" and "as about as exciting as the Taihape public toilets", Christopher Luxon still has a way to go to prove he could be a successful National leader, two political commentators say.
We don't know how competent National will be with so many changes since they last governed.
We do know Labour are totally incompetent.
None of the minor parties are likely to gain enough to be a major influence in the next term.
So your only hope is to take a punt on National.
Possibly an incoming National govts new set of priorities:
Introducing new christian sharia laws.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhnRZsv4Q4
Ha, brutal quote from ex ACT staffer & right wing commentator Trish Sherson, on National's candidate selection under Peter Goodfellow & leadership crisis,
'the party really needs to have a good look at itself. The leader really is the cherry on top of this cake, and at the moment there is no icing and no cake."
As a "swinging voter" I 100% disagree with your analysis. I know exactly what my views and opinions are, and what I am personally looking for in a government. I vote for whichever party I believe will do the best job for NZ, and for me as an individual, at the time. As yet, National has never received my vote, but that does not mean they never will. When the next election comes around I will look at what all parties have to offer, and will base my decision on that.
I would rather be a responsible swinging voter than someone who blindly votes one party, simply because that's what they have always done (or what their parents always did).
and as logen ninefingers puts it:
"I vote for parties that believe in private property rights, individual freedoms, the maintenance of law and order, and the limiting of state intrusion in peoples lives.
"I cannot in good conscience vote for parties that believe in ever increasing socialism and state control & the undermining of the current system, as that eventually leads to revolution, anarchy, and the implementation of totalitarian regimes."
In my case and IMHO:
I believe in the rule of law, our Courts, and Appeal processes Justice and fairness.
Regardless of who I vote for:
All governments should respect private property rights.
We worked hard for what we have now.
Govt should not claim the Resource Management Act (RMA), or proposed changes to it, allows City Councils, eg Wellington City Council (WCC) and the Greater Wellington District Council (GRDC), to take property as Significant Natural Areas (SNA).
It does not.
And especially, without valid consultation, compensation to legal owners with title (at independent market rates) or a cadastral survey.
Willing buyer and willing seller are fundamental.
There is no explicit legal authority in the existing RMA to take land as SNA.
So the Govt proposes to change the RMA and councils pursue SNA.
Current SNA proposals and the WCC GWRC actions to take land as SNA without payment are inequitable and unfair.
Minorities are clearly being victimised and will suffer loss by the bullying Govt, WCC and GRC actions and tactics.
And the Draft District plan is a non statutory document without any legal authority and the proposed rules have no effect as yet.
Since 2017 the WCC SNA proposals have tormented those affected.
If the RMA and SNA changes are not opposed, then up to 1700 landowners in Wellington lose their property rights.
In our case 51% of our section.
In some cases up to 100%.
Imagine, if it was you affected, how would you react?
As things stand, there are no appeals eg to Courts if these RMA/SNA proposals are carried through.
There is no meaningful discussion with affected stakeholders, no discussion or scaling back of the % of property claimed.
Civil servants and politicians should be able to conclude, in the blink of an eye, that the current RMA/SNA proposals are unjust and reject them, if they have integrity.
How would they react if 51% of their land was taken without compensation on flimsy justifications?
With no appeal to any higher authority.
The RMA/SNA is in the Parliamentary select committee stages prior to a third reading.
An irony is that while the Govt is pushing for 3x3 housing, more buildings; the SNA in perpetuity prevents any use at all by title holders of land designated as SNA. Confusing and contradictory.
As one directly affected landowner puts it "all we can do of SNA becomes law is watch the trees grow".
I understand for most people this is a non issue. 250,000 Wellington ratepayers are not affected. Some of the 1700 who are and whose enjoyment and use of the land is compromised do object and strongly. We appear to have no rights of appeal under the current process.
Darroch Valuers, the WCC Council appointed valuers, assess loss of land value from SNA as up to 22% in the few cases they reviewed.
Significant.
What do you think?
IMO Mr Luxon has come from a background where people down the pyramid show you subservience.
Politics is not like that.
Someone from the other side, who you may regard as vastly intellectually inferior, and less accomplished, can give you a damn good whipping, and there is not much you can do about it.
Not everyone can handle that.
Parliament is not known as the bear pit for no reason.
Simon Bridges has been though that, and appears to want more, hence me picking him over some others.
National cant afford another Todd Muller debacle between now and the next election.
Mr Luxon needs more time to prove he is battle hardened to the political environment.
Maybe step up into next term.
Have you ever voted for the Act Party Justakiwi ?
I may be wrong, but you don't strike me as someone who has or would.
If not, then with respect, you probably shouldn't call yourself a true "swinging voter", as there wouldn't really be a wide arch to your "swing"?
Unfortunately, there are too many men who do vote to keep out the party they dislike the most, and that is a problem, because they have a negative fear-based focus, instead of a positive vision of how they want New Zealand to be. I call it the stale pale male attitude, negative, based on fear, and focused on the past not the future.
Think of how much better New Zealand could be if these people had a positive future-focused vision of how NZ could be. Because we are all are part of NZ society. Many here are running businesses or employed in businesses. How do you contribute to society? The focus on these threads is how useless, incompetent the government is. All most people do is complain about how bad things are and few have a concept of to make NZ better.