Wow - you really have lost it.
You know this isn't good for your mental health.
Printable View
Calling out tim23 is giving me great satisfaction.
And seeing the likes of you and westerly (birds of feather) attempting to deflect from tim23's cowardly silence to a bet to call him out gives me more satisfaction.:t_up:
So typical of you lot - ganging together and trying to spin your way out of mistruths and outright lies.
So don't you worry about me but worry for your children and your children's children future under Cindy.
What do people think of National's Border Policy?
Seems that they want to privatise the border isolation. They'll make some rules and standards and then let people go at it.
Sounds great on paper but what happens when the inevitable happens - the virus leaks from a facility?
Who get the blame, and bill, for having to lock down a city?
So when it leaks, and it will, how pays the cost?
The private outfit says 'oops, sorry' and the Govt (us) still pay the cost?
Brownlee, when asked about the scheme, kept harping on that the current scheme was already private. He seemed to imply there was little change but there was a big, game changing, change.
Just like when the current "govt" scheme leaks who pays? Yeah the government. So its a great idea. Build in some KPI's with targets. If it leaks there are penalties. That should deter leaks. Unlike the current government run scheme when there are leaks there are no penalties and no one is held to account.
Just like corrections really. Serco was held to account and the media were all over their indiscretions but when the same sort of stuff happens at Rimutaka or a govt run premise... crickets.
Tim23 made repeated comments which I am happy to call him out on with a bet. The rest of you Labourites gang up and attempt as per usual to deflect and spin your way out - 'Birds of a Feather'.
Where's the bullying? Calling somebody out with a bet is bullying?
You should be encouraging him to be a man, take the bet or apologize. It's that simple, RB - but like Cindy, who is back to wearing the hijab today to support the oppression of Muslim women in certain countries, it's all spin, bluff and bluster with you lot.
So if the Govt screws up they (we) pay.
If private enterprise screws up the Govt (we) pay.
I can imagine some lodge getting, and paying, a multi $100mil bill for a lockdown - not!
Serco is a good example - set all the standards you like but issues still happen.
The impact of an issue at the prison is quite different to an Isolation issue.
The term bullying is like the term racist these days. Both are formed in the eye and opinion of the speaker. Designed not to inform or educate but to shut down the person on the receiving end. So prevalent now that the term cancel culture has been coined and is gaining currency fast.
Heh, I just googled it 5.5 million hits. Tell me that doesn't indicate something.
Considering your last stance(s) on mental health when the lockdowns were announced , you should have more respect and allow people to have good mental health when reading your posts rather than berating them and using cheap terms like "cindy" and "team of incompetents".
repeating something doesn't make something any more useful or truthful.
What makes Cindy a cheap name?
Looking back through previous P.Ms you'll find John for Johnathon.
Bill for William.
Jenny for Jennifer.
Jim for James
Mike for Michael.
Rob for Robert,
and the inexplicable one, Bill for Wallace.
So Cindy can't be too far off, although I believe she is better known as Cinda
Debate and discussion is healthy, but so much of the comments here are just name-calling and attacking the person and not discussing the actual issues. And I call that bullying, and that should be shut down. It would be great if you could discuss the issues and not put down people. There is not much on these election threads that is informative. As for being racist, I think it is not whether you are racist or not but how racist, because racism in an unconscious bias.
People can call me what they like - I have been called worse here on ST (refer NZOG, PEB, Pike River, Snakk & Plus SMS but to name a few). Call me great grandfather for all I care 😊
But if someone like tim23 wants to challenge me time & again after I have gently refuted his assertion, I reserve the right to call him out - my prerogative.
He has the right to refute my assertion of him as a grasshopper - and challenge me to a bet if he do wishes.
In any case, tim23 has been in hiding the whole day with his pathetic tail between his shrunken balls - so let’s leave him to whimper in the corner.
Well said Artemis. When posters and others in society start using the term "shutting down" I get very afraid. Very often it does not mean shut down "all bad speech" but generally speech or other events they do not like. One's they do like that are also hateful they do not seem to want to shut down.
It's a political debate, but even if not, lets be for robust discussion with a bit of name calling if you like. Don't like it, go cry a river somewhere.
Of course it matters to me - I (the tax payer) pay the bill, along with the affected businesses.
The model, as it is now, works well - modified by need and learning.
The example of Serco in the prisons was given - prisons worked well but Serco, for all the 'standards' they had, managed to botch that.
Private enterprise has a primary driver - money. You don't see a conflict of interest?
I read that manifesto. There was nothing in there that would even give a censor cause for concern. Maybe a PG rating, but there was no call to kill or anything like that. That leftist manifesto would pass most "hate speech" laws that are passed to this day.
There is plenty more turgid stuff freely available on the internet right now that is a lot worse.
An interesting debate.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...finance-debate
Paul lacks credibility and experience.
This is not a discussion about the issues of free speech and hate speech. It is an attack against Andrew Little, who you say is a dangerous man.
It could be stated neutrally as Andrew Little wants to further restrict free speech and ban hate speech. And then there could be a discussion about whether or why that is dangerous.
And another comment that puts Andrew Little down and undermines his credibility, one that is intended to create prejudice. To put it simply Andrew Little is a bad person, and we shouldn’t trust him. Why? We don’t need to say why because we all know why.........
Is this hate speech?
The term hate speech is understood as any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality ...
The Chief Censor disagrees withh you as he did ban the manifesto.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mosque-shooter
New Zealand’s chief censor has banned a document shared by the man allegedly responsible for killing 50 people in two Christchurch mosques.
David Shanks, the chief censor, officially classed the so-called manifesto as “objectionable” and told anyone in possession of it to destroy it.
“There is an important distinction to be made between ‘hate speech,’ which may be rejected by many right-thinking people, but which is legal to express, and this type of publication, which is deliberately constructed to inspire further murder and terrorism,” Shanks said in making his decision.
He said the document “crosses the line” by promoting, encouraging and justifying acts of murder and terrorist violence against identified groups of people.
Meanwhile National's polling doesn't get better.
Well, it does get better than the 'rogue' poll but not nearly good enough.
On current polling Goldsmith wouldn't be back - maybe a good thing, they could replace him with someone who can add.
You mean like with Twyford who obviously can add according to you then but could not even deliver 5% of the Kiwibuild homes promised?
And that's after planning and budgeting since 2012 and he can be out by 95%!
Now that is the Mother of all budget screw ups & blow-outs!
And Twyford is still #4 on Cindy's ranking and Kiwibuild was one of Cindy’s main Electoral planks & big promises in the 2017 election too!
Great team Cindy has got!
Are you serious ? Clearly you are in the Little camp that wants to change the law to restrict everyone speaking out that has a different view to themselves. We have perfectly good laws already and no need to change them further to limit free speech. Andrew Little is hellbent on pushing this through and is a danger to free speech.
Well, I am not in the Little camp ... and I haven't even seen the recent proposals (I assume there are some, are they?). However - free speech without limitations is more dangerous than any weapon of mass destruction. A nuclear bomb kills maybe some hundred thousands, the free speech used by hate preachers, racists, pick you color supremacists and conspiracy theorists can (and sometimes does) kill millions and can create wide spread misery for centuries or millennia (just look at what most of the big religions did to humanity and its continuous conflicts). People still kill in the name of Mohammad or Jesus or whoever else - despite these people being dead for more than one millenium. Hitler did (to the best of my knowledge) not kill a single jew personally - however his words killed many millions.
Unimpeded free speech is a dangerous thing. Now, obviously I realise that there are already restrictions (and I feel comfortable with them in a democratic society), but a discussion on this subject is clearly legitimate and not a justification to put people down just because you don't like their views.
People spreading hate are dangerous and inciting violence. Other people die because of this "free speech".
Antivaxxers spreading their lies are dangerous and their message does kill innocent people (mainly children).
Racists spreading their fear and stupidity are dangerous - and inflaming conflicts and generating genocides.
A president dividing his people is dangerous and destroying the base his people need to thrive long term.
So many other examples ....
I think that a people as well as humanity are better off if they do have some sensible rules how to use our most dangerous weapon - the word.
Of cause - no free speech at all is as bad as all free speech, but you do need some sort of golden middle in between. Discussing where this optimum is should be sensible and allowed.
BTW - I do see some irony in a promotor of free speech calling somebody who is using this right of free speech to propose some limitations "a dangerous man". Don't you?
Now it seems that the tax cut won't be as good as it seems.
They based it on an 'average' earner of $64k but the median is really $55k giving only $1800 not the $3k
Further, the article says
Ms Honey recommended using the latest Household Economic Survey data which showed the average income for all those aged 15 and over was $47,048 and the median income was $33,280.
Using this measure, both those on the average and the median income would receive $560 under National's tax cuts.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-earners.html
National seriously need to learn how numbers work. I hope this is a mistake rather than then trying to hoodwink the electors.
So how does it work out using the latest Quarterly Employment Survey - average FTE weekly earnings seasonally adjusted? Produced by Stats NZ and that National used.
There may indeed be other measures and combinations that produce different results, and certainly there are dozens of options. But that does not mean people are hoodwinked. It just means there are different bases on which to calculate results.
In addition, the tax cut measure announced does not include government (taxpayer) transfers. They may or may not be taxable but they certainly bump up income in many households.
Lol
Asked whether Twyford was an asset or a liability, Ardern said he was in her Cabinet so an asset while Collins said "well he's my asset" - speaking about her former rival.
Really unnecessary, your propensity to reduce debate to a bet is only reflecting on your inability to sustain a debate.
You’re the loser balance, you have no ability to debate rationally without demeaning your argument with trivial nonsense.
Not that you have the aptitude or propensity to realise that. You are our Trump.
Yawn. Do you even know what the bet is?
The 4 legs good, 2 legs better brigade herd up again - only know how to spend other people’s money.
Unlike you losers, I back up my assertion with substance and if necessary, my $$$. Can’t help it if you lot are all talk and zero substance.
Ironic he is so anti trump but acts like a bully on this thread.
Tell that to the 63 million people that voted for Trump last election. I too would vote Trump this election if I were in the US. Does not mean that I am a Trump supporter though. It means I like the calibre of conservatives he is appointing to the SC and also the majority of foreign policy he is engaging in amoungst a whole other lot of issues. I also do not like Biden or the Democrats. For me its more a case of voting for a party I least hate, rather than a party I like most.
Calling a supporter of any political party or party leader sick is quite twisted. I have a good mate, he is a rabid greenie, I hate his politics. But I do not think he is sick.
The WH Fornicator has no politics - thought you would know that by now. Lives in a TV reality world where he lies incessantly and baits race, religion, culture and gender issues for his own purposes and satisfaction.
The debate yesterday is a prime example of what kind of a demented clown is in the WH - a complete disgrace - contemptible disregard for any decency and the dignity of the office of President and election process. Fact free with nothing to offer by way of information for the electorates.
If you are okay with that, that’s for you to decide. I call it as I see it.
Yes the attention seeking Balance just loves your attention, makes stuff on people or anything will do😊
National's policy is to keep Tiwai Point running for 5 years or so, and my CEN shares were wallowing at $6.30-ish.
Then on 28 Sept Labour announced a similar policy, and my CEN shares immediately shot up to $7.07 and are still climbing. Is this an indication that sharetraders are expecting Labour to win the election?
National creaking under the strain.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-election.html
Gerry abusing reporters, members feeling all is lost.
Judith channeling her inner bully.
Desperate Judith trying to play the christian card - WT... (She then lies that she didn't know the media pack were going to follow when her minders asked church officials if it was OK for them to do so.)
Trouble adding up.
Judiths MP hopefulls may be standing behind her but a lot of knives out to stab her in the back.
A shambles.
""Desperate Judith trying to play the christian card""
wonder if Adern gets into the doggy style position when she prays 3 times a day with her veil?
Wow - that is so over the top. Is that how you really think?
For someone who wasn't happy that Vance etc allowed comments on
"fornicators, bimbos, fart perfumes etc day after day after day after week after month after"
you seem to have joined the low brigade.
PS - why 3 times a day not 5? Shows how much you can think.
Very nasty statement. You are not just degrading one of the world's big religions for no good reason, you are as well spreading fake news.
Adern is not Muslim, but she did wear a handful of times a headscarf (as sign of respect for the muslim community).
Many Christian nuns are wearing a headscarf as well. Are you degrading them as well for praying?
Taking aim at someone's private devotions is quite astonishing. Spin that anyway you like but it is crass in the extreme, especially when ascribing motivation. Unbelievable really.
Post#1476
Perhaps it was not intended, but that short post came across as crude, ignorant, bigoted and misogynistic.
I don't understand the hang-up over scarfs/veils. Many different cultures have veils and hair scarfs.
Despicable and repugnant comment.
What is wrong with anyone showing their faith openly and appealing to their Christian faith value voters?
Seems like Labourites like you are eager to shout down Christian values but will happily keep your mouth shut about hypocritical values like Cindy (courting Muslim votes) wearing the hijab to support oppression of Muslim women in Iran etc.
Here's a history for you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf
I have seen this via TV in period drama from the late 1800's.
Also Hilda Ogden on Coro St - always wore a scarf.
Nothing wrong with showing faith openly - as a political move it was transparent (one of her minders reportedly asked a church leader if the media could come in).
Just like she has played the Samoan card with Hubby in the 2nd debate and again last night saying Jacinda was 'disrespecting' Samoa when she called out Judith's lie.
We have had a discussion on Hijab's before and you still won't admit you were wrong.
And that wasn't a good look, either!Quote:
Also Hilda Ogden on Coro St - always wore a scarf.
;)
I remember Hilda Ogden from the 80’s. Didn’t she wear curlers and a scarf?
I have seen photos from the 60’s and 70’s with lots of women wearing head scarves. Who could forget Tippi driving her Aston Martin in The Birds!
So scarves must have been reasonably popular from the glamorous to the gritty.
Be that as it may, it was worn in Western societies for an entirely different reason than as is imposed on Muslim women in certain countries like Iran, Afghanistan and even UK.
And Cindy is aware of how repressive the hijab is as a symbol but she shamelessly and cynically wears it to court Muslim votes.
Despicable and repugnant.
Judith spent lots on buying FaceBook 'likes'.
Now, in Ponsonby Road, they rake supporters in to create a show.
Seems to be worried about not having enough admirers.
Media spending their time asking if she'll step down if (when) National lose.
Displays of disunity.
Bad debate performance.
Not a good couple of days for Judith - the poor wee thing.
Can’t answer that. How customs and mores were/are enforced varies according to place and time. I am pretty sure in the medieval West death was punishment for all manner of reasons, real or fabricated. Then Europe imposed their cultural expectations around the globe. In certain periods even to the C20th, the sky was the limit and you could be murdered/gassed for failing to do or wear certain things.
...To get votes or to show solidarity with and following the customs of a terrorised groups of people in NZ?
Certainly the arranged adoring Ponsonby "locals" laying down the figurative palm fronds in front of Collins seemed to have been following a lesson from the Trump playbook.
However I agree the arranged photo ops from all sides are sometimes sickening.
Your blind hate against Adern seems to block out any rational judgement.
Firstly, I haven't seen her wearing a hijab, just a headscarf. Different things.
The hijab is used in some autocratic muslim countries as means to oppress women - this is correct. However - many muslim women see it just as symbol of faith and empowerment, and in most countries of the world there is anyway no legal requirement for them to wear it, if they don't like it.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americ...-of-oppression
We also should not forget, that women covering their hair is not just usual in muslim countries, but it was the same thing in the Christian culture ... and still today you will see in many mediterranean countries women wearing a headscarf - and don't forget about Christian nuns. Are they as well wearing their "hijab" as symbol of the oppression through dirty old white man?
Funny you are so focussed on the oppression that you are not able to see the whole picture, isn't it?
Look - it is absolutely legitimate not to like Adern or not to support her. There are as well many legitimate reasons to question her competence and ability to deliver. While she did in my view quite well in crisis management (n.b. I said quite well, not perfect), Labor under her rule had as well a number of quite spectacular mishaps and failings - as you love to remind us. I didn't like many of the decisions of the Labor / NZ First government and they often felt short with delivering on their promises.
If you really want to support the opposition, than I propose you focus on Labors failings (Kiwibuild & Co) and at the same time give us a good and credible idea why you think a National-led government would do a better job. This way you could enrich the discussion (if you manage to cut out endless repetitions of the same argument, this is).
Adern did wear a headscarf as a symbol of respect towards a group of our population which suffered terribly under the murderous hand of some extreme rightwing nutcase, and your litanies in that regard are just tasteless ...; If anything - they will put people off from following your otherwise often (not always :) ) worthwhile posts. Sort of contra-productive if you want to achieve something with your posts, isn't it?