The similarity is that neither is good for shareholders; please show me if I'm incorrect here.
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Gee - a reasonable day again on okay volume any theories see average broker valuation 76c (only 2 brokers though), anyway maybe people seeing value.
Hi team,
just received my "information pack" asking for shareholders approval to allow the proposed share buy back. I noticed that some people in this thread have quite strong opinions on this subject, however personally I haven't yet made up my mind. So lets list the pro's and con's of the proposal as I see them:
So - what speaks for the proposal?
* Share buybacks can be an effective method to stabilise a lagging the share price. For example NPX is currently running a share buyback schema, and brought the SP onto a nice upwards pointing trajectory ...
* If the share is undervalued at buy back time, than buying it back by the company is obviously a great method to increase value for all remaining shareholders. Question - is it currently undervalued? Analyst consensus view seems to suggest so:
http://markets.ft.com/research/Marke...asts?s=NZO:NZC.
* the market seems to react really positively to the proposed share buyback. SP rising, and just noticed that median SP forecast moved overnight up by a notch from 75cts to 85 cts (see link above).
What speaks against the proposal?
* share buybacks sometimes have a funny way to act out - remember e.g. IFT's big share buyback and the SP dropped afterwards like a stone ...
* ZETA is likely to increase its corner stone position by stealth above 20% without paying a premium (actually - without paying anything);
* an admission that directors might be clueless to find in the current target rich environment no better way to increase the companies value than by buying its own shares (but than - what harm in letting the truth come out ;)).
* less liquidity of NZX shares after completion of the buyback program (and stock liquidity isn't really flash at current)
So, yes - I do see pros and cons, but still can't see a huge tilt towards either side. I would be interested to hear why some of you strongly oppose the proposal.
Seems this whole waste of money getting shareholder approval is solely due to ZETAs major holding.
Then again it also benefits the huge number of shares in the employee share scheme!
I see in the quarterly report that Kaheru drilling has been quietly dropped as well, better to spend the money on the buyback?
They also make no mention of the other great achievement this quarter, getting dropped from the NZX50
Mate, I'm for it,
Don't like Dividends, Mr Tax Man likes them far too much. (but each to their own)
I believe it would bad play from any company whom believes their stock is greatly undervalued to pay out a divi compared to a buy back.
I do agree that the Zeta situation could be of concern. Who would know what they have planned.
New to this company, jumped in at 62 and again at 58, Hopefully I've got this one right. but an Mcap of 200m for a company with +100m revenue and plenty of fat to be trimmed if things got tight.
Good Luck For Your Decision Making!
Hi all
NZO meeting cancelled? Not all above board? Comments.
-dodgy (owner/shareholder)
Ah well - comes a bit late - I seconded the decision already to NZSA (as proxy), but as it now looks like, they don't need to step up.
Looking at the bigger picture ... it appears NZO do have some governance issues - a squeaky clean board would not run into problems like that. Still believe that their SP has some growth potential (with the recovering price of oil) - but they might not be one of these shares I hang on for many years to come ...
Yes dogy,
commented precisely on this about 6-7 months ago with the summary, this co. might not be around in 12 months time.
And yes not to the advantage of S/Hs with possible many losers.
This co. has such a long negative Track-record with Investors hard to see price moving much, even with O/P rising.
Wish & Hope against all odds, this to be not so but there it goes.
The beauty of the share market is to expect the unexpected - if a takeover/mega merger occurs for NZO then there will be a whole heap of posts saying that they saw it coming including the pessimists!
Nothing wrong with wishful thinking, but hey bring it on.Quote:
Originally Posted by tim23;572011-A
However Promise, will not saying saw it coming.
Can't say having seen much evidence in the last 10 odd years of that lot trying.
Was all handed to them at the time in spades, by previous management.
Yes still hoping since, how's that for misguided optimism????
Have a look at announcement by PPP today to sell Tui asset.
NZO to buy and spend some of their cash?
Also note change of Chairman.
Large capital loss on the bargain basement sale of all the PPP shares held......
I do not know what sort of cosy arrangement Zeta and NZO have and if it is in the best interest of all shareholders. It is not good enought to say [Crackity] that NZO lost on the PPP sale. It is an arrangement as Zeta lost on the CUE sale to NZO.
some sort of merger of these companies is hoped for but what? It was good that the exchange cancelled the buy back as it clearly was to the benifit of ZETA helping them over the 20% bar limit without a takeover.
I clearly will have to keep an eye on this one as now I believe ZETA has too much say in NZO. TAP on the ASX also has a 20% holder that wanted to run the company and the company opposed. They did this by ringing all shareholders and emailing. Maybe we all should talk this one out. ideas
I do not know what sort of cosy arrangement Zeta and NZO have and if it is in the best interest of all shareholders. It is not good enought to say [Crackity] that NZO lost on the PPP sale. It is an arrangement as Zeta lost on the CUE sale to NZO.
some sort of merger of these companies is hoped for but what? It was good that the exchange cancelled the buy back as it clearly was to the benifit of ZETA helping them over the 20% bar limit without a takeover.
I clearly will have to keep an eye on this one as now I believe ZETA has too much say in NZO. TAP on the ASX also has a 20% holder that wanted to run the company and the company opposed. They did this by ringing all shareholders and emailing. Maybe we all should talk this one out. ideas
Clearly the Zeta tail is wagging.....not much hope for the rest of the shareholders if such sweetheart deals are done between nzo and zeta on ppp. the ppp directors think it is worth more, but whatever the independent directors of nzo think, it is now zeta calling all the shots.
shareholders should be asking why not let ppp sell the tui asset and return the capital to all the shareholder including nzo at 7.5-12c shares, so the cosy and frankly cheap 5c nz that nzo sold them to zeta.
remember that strategic purchase of ppp by nzo several years was at a much higher price, so another savy move by the nzo board....not
these guys appear to be sleep walking into a takeover
Digger
It sounds to me that you are finally waking to reality after sleep-walking your large investment. I guess directors and management have added very little or anything to your and my gross worth except for platitudes, hopes , dreams, propaganda and cheap sausage rolls. However I think it is now too late to shut the stable door - all things considered a sad investment in our cases.
Regards
-dodgy (owner/shareholder - dismayed participant.)
Hi Digger
it does seem to me that there is an undisclosed quid pro quo here - I was surprised zeta accepted the cue on market bid and delivered control of that company to NZOG. Likewise I am surprised NZOG has accepted the Zeta PPP bid. From memory NZOG paid over 30 cents per PPP share - granted since then there has been a 5 cents per share capital return. However there still has been a large capital loss as per my initial statement even before you account for the time value of money and holding costs. In my opinion PPP at 5 cents is a bargain basement price - an orderly sale process of assets should realise more and maybe substantially more.
So far Notie has been on the money with his exceedingly critical posts for the last few years.....
In AU the 5c capital return came with substantial tax credits - hard to put a value on the tax credits as each shareholder has there're own taxation position. For me it was worth say 2c au per share.
What tax credits applied to NZ shareholders I do not know - but if similar to AU then it was worth more than the 5c face value
The value of PPP took a bit hit when the holes around Tui were uncommercial, with the loss only now being realised with the sale of the PPP 14.9999%
[I no longer hold ppp]
M
The 30 c price is irrelevant, the only relevant pricing is forward looking, Knight said it in the paper last week, how much do you think you will get back by holding your shares. less than 5c then sell, if you think you're going to get more than 5c hold.
the value destruction by these guys is the game of why you all invest, if Oi had come in you would have thought they were hero's. it's exploration people, get over it and stop the bleating. if you don't like it sell and put your money in the bank.
Always thought S/H stood for Shareholder, Turns out to be === SAND HEAD.
Looks like Allan Tattersfield reads this thread, he is now a seller.
Rather than recouping at least some benefit from the sell-down of the PPP assets, NOG's pathetic bunch of incompetent directors sold out Nog's PPP stake at a giveaway price. This betrayal causes other dominoes to fall - Alan Tattersfield sells.................
Any talk of collusion, for Zeta to gain the lot at bargain prices really hits the nail on the head, and describes a disgusting betrayal of both NZO and PPP shareholders.
Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies.
Hi Pietrade
I think we all agree with you. Bella52 suggests that exploration is risky and get over it. Maybe the methods he/she has for investing are bomb proof. I invested based on trust, assumed integrity, and a degree of expertise by the manager and governance at that time. PPP has demonstrated none , the best example of over risking was the all or nothing Oi watering hole and subsequent demise of that company. I warned months ago of Zetas agenda and are now of the belief that they will wrap up NZO for a song - not even sung well.
Where to from here.
Regards
-dodgy (owner/shareholder/mug.)
In short its called Shafting the S/Hs.
Hear hear Dodgy - I sold all my PPP the day the Oi craziness was announced - it seemed like a fools bet to me and was such a huge gamble compared to the size of the company and cash reserves at the time....
I don't understand how come fabs and pie trade have thumbs down for their comments - please point me in the right direction to give them a thumbs up!
Trying to find some information on Zeta Resources Limited, the major shareholder. The Companies office only has a struck of company under that name. Can anyone shed some light on Zeta?
Thanks
http://zetaresources.co/
There is comment on them through this thread as well
This from their Web page - PPP is under valued....
Strategy
Zeta’s aim is to maximise total returns for shareholders by identifying and investing in assets and companies where the underlying value is not reflected in the market price. The company invests in a range of resources entities, including those focused on oil and gas, gold and base metals exploration and production.
Interesting Take.
Corporate CEOs are tired of the drudgery of actually running a business, and have grown cocky after years of rising share prices. Combine these two attitudes with the aforementioned easy money and you get empire building. In other words, today’s buyers are thinking mainly about future cocktail parties and industry conventions where they’ll be treated like royalty. Shareholder value is taken for granted. The inevitable result is a string of deals done at prices that will look insanely inflated a few years from now.
Cue acquires US conventional onshore oil production.
Current production from the field is approximately 90 barrels of oil per day and the acquisition
is expected to add approximately 300,000 barrels of 2P reserves net to Cue. This is an
increase of 7-10% to Cue’s daily oil production and more than 10% to Cue’s 2P liquids
reserves.
The Pine Mills field includes 14 currently producing, conventional, vertical wells, two water
injection wells and a further 13 currently inactive wells. Cue believes that there is significant
opportunity to quickly increase production from the Pine Mills field through the low cost
workover of producing and inactive wells.
The Pine Mills field taps the prolific Woodbine trend, which includes the East Texas oil field,
150km to the east of Pine Mills, which has produced more than 5.4 billion barrels of oil since
its discovery in 1930
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/2015060...0fgkwpk0pd.pdf
Might help the NZO shareprice.
YES, while any oil is good for the co. it is only so for the S/H if the net profit margin is large enough, IN TIME.
Are we observing a gradual ratcheting down of the S/P price, regardless of where the O/P goes???
Yes seems a bit odd, management need to do another capital return because that worked wonders for shareholders! (I'm kidding if anyone couldn't pick up the sarcasm)
in my case the capital return was enough to pay for a barn conversion into a fully decked out workshop that is just about a profitable home business that will allow me to
be self employed in the not too distant future. of course i could have done this years ago without investing in shares..... but back then i thought listed company directors
knew more about creating wealth than little ol' me..... which is why i invested in those i thought were better than me..... now i only invest in myself, and the capital return
was a positive thing for me....... more psychologically than financially ....... with the former being more important in wealth creation than the later..... so i have learnt.
without sounding too touchy frely new age Greeny supporter that is a cool post Neopole!
In keeping with the title "the Explorers from NZ", NZOG have surrendered another piece of dirt in the Taranaki Basin, 54857, before they did some 3D seismics or drilled a well. Clearly this is a great way to explore, by not exploring.
They did 2D seismic.
To keep the permit they would have needed to do 3D seismic but apparently nothing worth following up was discovered during the 2D exploration.
This permit is also one of the few where NZOG has 100% of the risk, so a farmout of some risk would have been desirable.
That could be difficult in the current climate.
Frankly I prefer if they buy up reserves and production cheaply on the sharemarket as with CUE.
The Explorer thing is more a bit of nostalgia.
Quite right sideline. The oil world has changed with the hugh and unexpected crude price drop last year. There are quite a number of cash stressed oil companies that need taken out of their misery that just might not make it through this downturn. That is where we should be doing our exploring. In other words change with the changing world.
So on 29th of July a special cUE meeting is being called by a greater than 5% holder. That must be NZO calling the meeting. Anyone know if CUE currently has any other holder with more than 5% ? Is this meeting being called to merge with NZO,which is my take? If so probably a script swap.But remember just my thoughts.
Good evening Digger,
Yes you are right, NZO called the CUE meeting. I strongly suggest that all the machinations at NZO, PPP, and CUE will result in absolutely no benefit for minority owners of these companies, but a very cheap acquisition/consolidation for Zeta Resources - the common thread. Your take?
Regards
-dodgy (owner/shareholder - increasingly dismayed with the outlook.)
Hi digger,
yes, NZOG have called for the meeting.
The motion put to vote is to remove two of the independent directors, which would leave four directors,
three of which have been appointed by NZOG. So it is just to shore up NZOG's control over CUE to better line
up the synergies and cooperation between the companies, I suppose.
Those synergies being 1 + 1 = 1 and a half?
[QUOTE=dodgy;576890]Good evening Digger,
Yes you are right, NZO called the CUE meeting. I strongly suggest that all the machinations at NZO, PPP, and CUE will result in absolutely no benefit for minority owners of these companies, but a very cheap acquisition/consolidation for Zeta Resources - the common thread. Your take?
Regards
Are you suggesting dodgy,
that the rest of the board is that useless that ZETA can have its wicked way with the co. where it will end up.
Or the rest of management "has a cunning plan" to be acquiescent and compliant, for reasons best known only to them.
The S/Hs should be shuddering at the thought,either way.
I personally would not be surprised.
[QUOTE=dodgy;576961]There is an alternative point of view.
Mine is based on 28 years of investing large sums in shares but I am still learning and consider all points of view.
I am one of the few shareholders that took TPP to court and won-and upheld on appeal.
They had tried to take out minority shareholders at an unfair price
[QUOTE=dodgy;576966]Dodgy is right, Zeta will take over all of them in due course and while it might loose some money in the short term, it will make a lot more in the future. NZOG production revenue from Kupe is pretty attractive, but the company's overheads aren't, so most of the staff and offices would go.
While the beginning of the year payout may very well have been a reaction to what may now gradually unfolds.
Namely similar concerns by the then existing management echoed by dodgy's last post.
S/Hs wealth has been steadily eroded in spite of oil having steadied for quite some time now nearly10% above its low, so still on a downward path.
But management still happily raking it inhaving very little to do.
Buying out COs. with profitable production income will hardly be in trouble and cheap and its doubtful whether nzo has anything worthwhile to explore at the moment.
Nor seemingly have the expertise to find anything to make this co.go anywhere.
Rather if the S/P get down to a certain level it could become very exiting.
they stop drilling they get crusified....they buy producing assets they get crucified....me thinks nzog just cant win.....but my Fabsometer tells me its time to buy back in......again...one thing that concerns me is the cost to disestablish the Tui rig....Matuku being dry was a blow to the longevity of tui...but hey i have faith in nzo management to do the right thing
[QUOTE=notie;577006]Good morning notie and all,
What I was getting at is probably ZETA will force the price down (as has happened with PPP) , gain sufficient holding to force a compulsory take over. Result, the minorities continue to see capital erosion and the oil industry of NZ goes the way of the banks - Aussie.
Regards and have a happy weekend.
-dodgy (owner/shareholder all three)
There is no Tui rig! Its just a few subsea wellheads which need to be shut off securely and permanently.
Then the risers can be disconnected and reeled in and the FPSO Umuroa towed away.
BTW, since the new well has been established the Tui production should have increased markedly this quarter.
With the NZ$ falling the oil price in NZD-terms is somewhere in the 90s NZ$/barrel.
Anybody want to hazard a guess how this half-year results are shaping up??
Am glad my post encourages DREAMERS, lots of what this Co. badly needs to boost the S/P.
Hard to see this happen, had nearly 10 years to attract them, but here is hoping.
Fair enough fabs....but was a bit tongue in cheek.....nzo are building some nice income producing assets and kisaran has the go ahead from the idonesian government.so things will come right but the Zeta factor is the unknown....they do own only 20% and the buyback where they wanted an exemption to go over that level was stymied....Zeta will do whats best for Zeta ....but luckily my average price is not bad..but that 55 price is starting to look enticing
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/215461.pdf
Is this more than usual? Haven't seen such a 'direct' and short announcement from NZO like this in a while...
Will hopefully provide a much needed boost to the share price...
And its in a trading halt? (is this usual for an announcement like this?)
Will have to wait & see in the corresponding 1/4 yearly report, what the net taxable profit is on a shipment like that,given the present O/P.
May or may not affect the S/P. either way===???
@ least the shipment has been made when the oil price is higher
M
This news look significant for the profit and loss
166K barrels of oil is worth somewhere north of NZ$15M to NZO. So this on top of the stock they had on hand in March + Kupe + any other shipments must mean the next quarterly will be excellent news.
It will be interesting to see what the production levels out at for Tui going forward.
any one get the feeling that Pateke reserves are going to be upgraded...less water content as the well has settled down
Needs something as share price continues to drift downwards.
drifts down or driven down......as soon as it gets some (tiny ) momentum it goes back down.....zeta will not be happy with 20%........chippie above says 166000 barrels from Tui is worth some $15 million to nzo so what is 27% of the remaining Tui reserves plus Pateke worth ) ( 4 million barrel total and if you and add in Kupe and kisaran and a few barrels from Cue and if Zeta get hold of the remaining 47% of PPP ( who have $25 million in cash on the books ) plus 15% of Tui .....Heck I might buy Zeta instead
Good point. Zeta trading at 36% below net asset value (May Fact Sheet).
I havnt done any in depth research on Zeta-has anyone?
Is it worth considering buying in?
Is the Sun slowly setting on NZO, as a Public/co????
would it be far to say that the directors and management who were/are on hefty salaries and share options etc......
and own large quantities of shares would be happy for a takeover?
they get bought out and bank their share money.... which was mostly gained for very little money from their very heavy salaries.
TR comes into my mind and several other members of management/directors...... past and present.
it seems that shareholders were nothing but a cheap financial cash source.
just my opinion.
I don't belive you can make such assumptions.
Times have changed.
The current management may have lost money on 1 cent options and buying/gifts of shares.
Rather than make ourselves miserable going over the past why not look how things can be improved .
I have the impression than Andrew Knight is good and capable and may be able to resist Zeta .
We have increasing supplies of oil that should be fetching close to nz $100.
Probably an increase in reserves with kupe.
Indonesia producing soon
CUE.
I bought a small quantity of shares recently-and will probably keep doing so.
There is no way zeta will get my shares cheaply-having been there before with TTP I am confident that arbitration would ensure I get a fair and reasonable price for my shares-as well as interest and costs.
Hi Fish ,we need to keep contact on the final takeover. The takeover I see coming with PPP,cue and then NZO. I sold all my CUE to NZO but have just bought back more than I first had. Sold no PPP and have also topped up with them. My guess is that NZO will offer a scrip exchange for CUE and PPP and ZETA will certainly want its pound of flesh for PPP. This is why I see NZO being pushed down now so that Zeta will get a good deal with PPP.
However once this is all finished and these three companies become one we then might see one of two actions take place. The first will be a return of the buy back where Zeta does not have to take part and can thereby increase its NZO holding in excess of 20%. If this does take place it implies that zeta does not immediately intend to takeover NZO by will mark its time. The second coarse of action is that there is no buyback and Zeta will take advantage of the low NZO price[which they probably engineered by an associated company selling] to launch a full take out of NZO.
Now when and if there is a takeout of NZO it is when we have to stick together. I note you have had some experience with being part of the last 10% where compulsory takeout can occure. So have I with Montana many years ago. However as you know before they take our shares we can get them indepently valued and the company wanting to take over another company has to pay.
Anyways when and if this comes I will be getting my A into G and taking action.
Also check with the NZO investor presentation coming up at the end of this month in Naiper. I want to attend and speak with AK. Hope you can come,but do check on time and place as I have not done so for some time but it is due about the 27th of this month.
morning Digger,....i think PPP had $22million aussie on there books as of dec 2014 and Zeta had 53% of PPP....with income etc it must be close to $30 million nz....even at 10 cents a share the cash would just about fund the buying of the rest of PPP and Zeta ends up with 15% of tui for bugger all
[QUOTE=fish;579504]
We have increasing supplies of oil that should be fetching close to nz $100.
Have you any reliable evidence that they get, {close to that amount } Fish
Also for how long and at what is there nett profit before tax on oil revenue??
They have apparently long set price contracts for gas,but not so sure about oil.
That investor briefing is according to the web site as follows:
Wed 29th July at Napier War Memorial Conference Center
48 Marine Parade
Bluff Hill
Napier starting at 12 noon.
But check yourself just in case I made any slip up.
unfortunately cant make it digger.
Too busy working including this week-end and am fully booked for weeks ahead.
When I get time will pm you.
At the rate price of oil descending, NZO S/P still looks quite high, but will probably in time
follow the continuing descend of the O/P.
Zeata can bid its time and match its offer price within reasonable range of any independent valuers.
In that possible scenario compulsory T/O===== LIKE TAKING CANDY OF A BABY=====
Don't like it, but things happen that way.
BTW Musos; Good Lyrics for a song here. [ grin ]
I guess there is nothing stopping the "baby" to buy some more - and push the price up. However - have to agree: looking at all fundamentals this company looks at the moment undervalued ... probably due to a mixture of a history of breaking promises, questionable governance, some bad luck combined with suboptimal decisions ... and the falling oil price does not help either. Quite funny mixture between an income and a highly speculative stock.
Discl: hold a (small) parcel and wondering whether buying it was one of my better investment decisions.
Morning BlackPeter and all,
Unfortunately for NZO and also TWR at this moment, the fly in the ointment was overpriced buybacks. I can't remember any buybacks doing anything for the long term share price in New Zealand. The inference of course, is that management prefers to spend our money (on buybacks) more wisely than the owners/shareholders. Would you be as happy if the buyback kings were government departments instead? I guess not. Now a 75c bought back share is worth 53c today - great result. Comments?
Kind regards and have an exceptional day - making money elsewhere.
-dodgy
Hi dodgy, I agree with your assessment of the appropriateness of the NZO capital return (or buy back) at a too high price. However not quite sure, whether I agree as well with your general view on recent buybacks in NZ. Look at NPX - they managed to lift their SP by more than 1/3rd that way (obviously as well supported by some good news). Buybacks in general can be an appropriate way to reward shareholders, it just depends on the circumstances.
Good morning BlackPeter
I was generalizing but over time I believe this to be the case. Its very early days when you consider NPX last buy back was about 3 weeks ago at a shade over $4.28/share and closed yesterday at $4.12. Please check in 6-12 months - will this s/p still hold up?
Kind regards
-dodgy (NPX - currently not an owner/shareholder)
fair enough ... I probably looked at that too much from my own little selfish perspective ... sold out of NPX with a nice gain during the early stages of their buy back phase ... a nice correction of their share price now would be only a bonus for me. Ah yes - and before anybody complains - I shall shut up talking NPX on this thread ... promise & apologies ...
[QUOTE=BlackPeter;580110] looking at all fundamentals this company looks at the moment undervalued;
Don't think NZO is undervalued at all, really if you take everything into consideration at this point of time.
Investors long ago have had enough for quite a number of reasons, that has now been made worse by no foreseeable returns to S/H.
This Management demonstrated over a long period of having any clues nor expertise in generating worthwhile wealth for the co. [ lots of funds available for a long,long time ]
It is no good to talk about POTENTIAL here anymore, as it would need the discovery of a gusher to bring any interest back to it. [ how likely is that ??? ]
How far the P/O will fall let alone when it will recover to a real profitable level is any ones guess, in the meantime same no. of staff enjoy sitting at the Through.
Lots of S/H want out depressing the price further any body having paid over 90 cents really hurting.
T/O for this co. should have taken place years ago as i stated to A/K
THE LATER IT WILL HAPPEN NOW THE MORE HURTFUL IT WILL BE.
This co.had such golden prospects badly squandered over the last 7 or more years.
Hope against all odds to have this horribly wrong.
But hey lets break out the Booze and keep on Dancing.
You'll be able to get these shares for free soon.
Lots of brave people here:
http://www.4-traders.com/NEW-ZEALAND...237/consensus/
BTW - it would take a foolish analyst to rate a share which paid so far 6 cents dividends per year plus (plus imputation credits) and this year a capital return at less than 40 cents. Wouldn't it?
Oh yes being selective, a year ago was a good move to get out at 80cents despite what happened since.
My comments relate to the PRESENT.
Going by the current trend i stick my neck out with perhaps the added rider, hoping to be wrong.
One would wonder how many of those lots of brave ones are now busy buying up, or just playing around with graphs?
Meanwhile for the ones around it, THE THROUGH OVERFLOWED!
CHEERS