Amazing how there are those who will still try to ignore the tragedy and the lessons to be learnt from it?
I wonder if they are connected with NZOG's management.
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Amazing how there are those who will still try to ignore the tragedy and the lessons to be learnt from it?
I wonder if they are connected with NZOG's management.
and where were the government appointed mines inspectors?
or OSH or numerous other officials?
i do recall there was also a publicly stated announcement from PRC that they offered a 10K bonus to all staff if the miners got the coal out in a certain time frame.....
you would think that the mine inspectors would take heed and make sure that the miners werent overly over worked (for safety reasons) in the miners quest for a 10k cash payout?
lots and lots of mistakes..... the management had the right to offer big rewards, the miners had the right to except the rewards.........
the inspectors had the right to make sure things are safe............
the inspectors are government employees
also.... how many coal mines in the world are methane free? i guess that most have this problem of methane build up.
and sensors are installed to monitor...... who installs them? who monitors them?
who "covered" them up?
im guessing that the suit wearing board didnt walk down the mine and cover or remove or disable the sensors.
so maybe the miners themselves decided that the "pesky" sensors were hindering their 10k bonus?
go into the mine and have a look and expose the real truth...... im sure you want to see the real facts as much as us balance.
If the mine was operated safely - who needs inspectors?
thats a stupid statement........ even for you balance.
im off to have a tui.
On the matter of the flow rate of the Kiseran well, surely the choke used in the process is relevant. I presume that once in production that a much large nozzle is used and therefore flow rates will be larger. If I am wrong about this I am sure that I will be promptly corrected.
I am not familiar with oil exploration techniques, but physics would tell me that the flow rate and choke size are together a measure of
the pressure the reservoir is under and the ease with which the oil moves in the reservoir. These can be improved by fracking (a.k.a. stimulation) or horizontal drilling to improve the horizontal flow and artificial lift (as in Tui) if the pressure in the reservoir is a bit low.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pike-ri...-air-ck-142833
"the Prime Minister has said in terms of ACC, the payout there has been the biggest workplace payout ever.”
Your 'head in the sand' not wanting to read up properly on Pike River shows through, Digger.
Shame on you.
Sounds familiar to anyone pretending the explosion was caused by an act of nature : "Under re-examination by Shortall, Whittall said the impact of Pike River Coal’s financial difficulties on the mine site had been “nil”.
He told reporters after the hearing that the company’s reputation had not been tarnished by evidence presented to the commission in the last fortnight. “I think it shows that the company has taken every conceivable step and employed every available consultant to provide the best possible advice…I think the company from day one has always had safety at the forefront of its way of operating.”
http://www.3news.co.nz/Greens-use-la...5/Default.aspx
55 meters evacuation ladder up a shaft - straight up for any miner lucky to escape the explosion.
Hole acts as a chimney to funnel hot gas and flame up the chute.
No wonder Peter Whitall had a chuckle about anyone climbing up that ladder.
Sick joke.
My point is that the blame for the explosion must rest firstly, squarely and primarily with Pike River.
We do not blame the Police for individuals choosing to be criminals or for a crime committed - we can blame the Police for not catching them or preventing crimes, right?
But criminals make their own choices.
Likewise, Pike River and NZOG chose profits over safety.
And as we read from Fish, management were plenty happy to lie.
SLight change of topic from the PIKE distraction
This comment was made yesterday at some seminar. I assume you wouldnt say that unless things looking good?
New Zealand Oil and Gas was drilling a couple of oil wells in Indonesia which he hoped would generate about $120 million in revenues. NZOG has a 22.5 per cent stake in the joint venture.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...key-to-trading
What sort of strange logic is that? The mine needs breathing holes, but the greenies are making that difficult. Oh well, we'll build the mine without them and if it blows up it will be their fault.
WTF?
I was a small PRC shareholder and have a small NOG holding. I would be willing to pay a levy, along with the Government (a.k.a.taxpayer), to help cover the court awarded amount for the families. Not as a precedent, but as a one off goodwill gesture to the families from the shareholders and the regulator regardless of ultimate culpability, and I do think the regulator has a lot to answer for.
Exactly. It was on the DOC estate and at development NZO was happy enough to be touting it as a fine example of how mining could be done in sensitive areas with little or no ecological impact.
What sort of logic is that indeed. Sounds like Balance's back handed reasoning. Who said that they would built it anyways and then blame the greenies.???
This sort of logic is what went on with the Club Of Rome in the book Limits to resources. The opposition just said any old thing then a counter argument opposes it and the discussion goes on for 40 years and eventually one or two individuals finally work out that the Limits to resources never said that in the first place.
We should cut all the crap and open the mine. A full police report on what they find would be very revealing, if indeed we would be allowed a honest report.
It's fairly straightforward really, whoever signed of the mine as safe without the breathing holes is at fault, not those who objected (for whatever reasons) to the holes being there in the first place. It's like saying that if the greenies object to Digger flying his microlight at 500' over some whales, then the greenies are at fault for the disaster when Digger modifies his plan and flies at 1000' ...... into a 737. Clearly the fault lies with the pilot and the authority that allowed him at the higher level. Balance would likely blame the whale.
Fantastic analogy
Biker, why don't you go ahead and send them your money!!! I think NZO has been too generous already and paid far more than their fair share was. Their role after the float of PRC was pretty much restricted to providing finance. They did this because they wanted PRC to succeed as a operating coal mine. In that they were no more involved than the banks.
As far as the safety question is concerned the simple truth is that the more difficult and restrictive the conditions placed on PRC were the less safety measures could be taken. With safety more is always better. There is never too much safety. So there you have your tradeoff between restrictions and safety.
On that note I recall a news item a few days ago about some long operating gold mine in the Coromandels getting (finally) approval to construct a second safety exit on DOC land. It sickened me to see the Greens complaining about this on tv. Here we go again I thought, these people would rather see a few more dead miners than a safety exit on DOC land. Deja Vu
Begs the question why the gold mine has been allowed to be "long operating" in the current (assumedly) unsafe mode of not having the second escape tunnel. As I alluded above, any disaster will be the fault of those who allowed the current operation, not those whose motivation is to prevent any mining in the first place.
The second safety exit was a new requirement directly resulting from the PRC disaster.
I have to disagree with your second conclusion. As you correctly state the Greens motivation in opposing the safety exit is their declared policy to prevent all mining. The correct and ethical way to go about this is to get the numbers in parliament for this policy and pass laws accordingly.
Since they didn't get the numbers for this at election time they now try to subvert the majority will (rather undemocratically) by denying the miners the safety measures they need to safeguard their health and their lives while going about their lawful business.
I shows how morally corrupt and callous the Greens have become. The end (no mining) justifies the means (dead miners).
I do find them at fault for this.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
The Fifth Labour Government of New Zealand was the government of New Zealand between 10 December 1999 and 19 November 2008.
Chris Carter as the minister of conservation with input from his green friends?
J.R., it was Metiria Turei from the Greens complaining on tv1 about the safety exit on DOC land. I didn't dream that, yes?
So let me see if I'm understanding you...
Labour and the Greens are the same party in effect.
The Greens were acting undemocratically because they weren't the Government. But it was all their fault because DOC was being run by Labour at the time and they WERE the government.
Do I have that right?
And for clarity, I have been talking about the coal mine not the gold mine.
Come along and meet NZ Oil & Gas ceo Andrew Knight
Gidday sharetraders.
I would like to invite people in this thread to come along to an event to meet NZ Oil & Gas ceo Andrew Knight.
It's an informal session where you're welcome to fire all your questions at him - including any of the issues raised on here. Indonesia. Company strategy. And you're all invited - Balance, you're welcome to come along and ask about Pike if you want.
An Auckland broking firm has kindly agreed to host us next week at 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Friday, 26 July.
That's the same day we're releasing our next quarterly report, so you'll have the chance to ask about that, too.
This is an event for online commenters who have an interest in NZ Oil & Gas. Later in the year we will hold our usual round of investor briefings around the Annual Meeting, and we will try to get to Dunedin this year too.
If you would like to join us for this event, please email me at john.pagani@nzog.com - I will send you the details about the venue in downtown Auckland.
Time: 3.00pm Friday 26 July
Look forward to meeting you there.
Balance actually said something pertinent here. 'Greenies' are not greedy people. They are not driven by profits. By and large they see how humans fit into the natural world. Because they have a long term view of where the world is going and take the view that the direction we are moving in is going to make the world a very unhospitable place for us and the few species that might remain after we have harvested the others, they have strong views on what needs to be done now to change direction in the best interests of our grandchildrens future. In contrast, most people can't see much past short term stuff such as taking the kids on holiday to Fiji, paying the mortgage, keeping their job to pay for it all, and the three year election cycle. Most people therefore do not consider the state of the world in 100 years time because of short term desires. Most of our politicians (especially the centre-right wing) milk these insecurities for their own agendas. The points I am getting to is that (1) unpopular decisions that will improve our environment for people living here in 100 years time are not going to get supported by our current democratic process. Hence, (2) unpopular campaigns are not neccessary bad campaigns and (3) trying to stop a mine does not make a greenie a murderer when some dickheads go ahead and approve a compromise anyway. PRCs motivation was to make as much profit as fast as possible. The greenies motivation was to keep humans out of the area altogether. Who is at fault?
There's your chance Balance. Go and meet them and tell them what you think of them, face to face.
To miss out on sausage rolls would be one thing, but to miss out on seeing Balance humble the NZO directors would be a crying shame.
Isn't an Auckland Broking Firm hosting this event... one wonders who this firm may be. But it's a nice gesture from the NZO PR people to invite shareholders along. At least we cannot complain that the "big boys" have all the inside say.
p.s I won't be going as I am in Wellington and don't hold NZO at the moment. But I like the initiative of the company. (in this regard that is)
Hmmm, well.... 3pm is afternoon tea time (he optimistically points out).
Be careful there Balance.NZO are being too nice.
If you win the draw for a ride in Tony Radford's helicopter,you may be dropped off at 5000 feet.
Monkey Poms.
No, Tony will not accept any offers from you lot to offer to pay for the extra fuel for the helicopter to reach 10000 feet.
Usual trick of corporates - get someone else to front for the one who was intimately involved in the disaster - hiding under a skirt.
Been around too long to fall for that trick.
Bring on Tony Radford - he sat on the Board of Pike River and was intimately involved in Pike River from beginning to end.
If he has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear.
Snr, Balance
Mr. Knight was also a director with much of PRC time.
Or if Balance turns up they can serve him with a defamation writ right there on the spot :):)
Why?
For asking why directors of NZOG (especially the ones sitting on the Board of Pike River) have not apologized to the dead miners' families?
For uncovering on this very site from Fish that David Salisbury blatantly lied to him about having confidence in Whitall 2 months after officially stating NZOG had none?
For the 'total lack of remorse' as per the judgement issued?
Bring it on!
Nothing like a public arena for the families of the dead miners to hear what NZOG has to say about its involvement and leading role in financing the Pike River disaster.
Thanks for your comments.
As far as catering concerns go - I think we will probably spring for a cup of tea and some biscuits (not sure if they'll be chocolate, though. The boss expects us to be frugal with shareholders' funds.)
For investors who can't make it to Auckland for the event, you are invited to meet management and directors at the Annual Meeting in Wellington on 29 October, or at one of the associated investor briefings. Details of times and dates have just been announced:
ANNUAL MEETING
9.30AM Tuesday, 29 October 2013
InterContinental Hotel, 2 Grey St, Wellington.
AUCKLAND INVESTOR BRIEFING
3.00PM Tuesday, 29 October 2013
Great Northern Room, Ellerslie Event Centre, Auckland.
CHRISTCHURCH INVESTOR BRIEFING
12 Noon, Wednesday, 30 October 2013
Balmerino Room, Riccarton Park, Christchurch.
If you have specific issues to discuss, investors are always warmly invited to phone Andrew Knight, myself or Investor Relations manager Manher Sukha at the office: (+64 4) 495 2424. You can also contact us any time by using the contact form on our website. We always look forward to hearing from investors and if you can make it to the Auckland event next week, we very much look forward to carrying on the discussion.
Like your sense of humor Mr. Pagani.
The ===BOSS=== aka T/R expects us to be frugal with shareholders' funds.) just tea and crackers next week, a MINIATURE bottle of tui at the AGM.
So we can kiss Divs. away this year also????
For goodness sake give these hard working chaps a hefty pay-rise quick.
hello johnpagani,
i would like to attend the meeting but i am a wage earner and therefore cant take the time off....... to be honest....... i dont want to attend the meeting for the simple reasons that the things that i have questioned are questions that should or could be answered to the general public or investors. so your offer of an investor meeting to discuss issues is almost a hollow offer as any information divulged would be either released as an official company release or the "meeting" would be breaking NZX disclosure rules.
im assuming here that you and / or your fellow staff have been reading this forum and therefore offered the meet.
but in my limited opinion there is nothing you could tell us at the meeting that you couldn't tell us in disclosures........ ie the process of the indo govt and its release of information format.
or .... what the currently disclosed information of the 300 to 400 bbls means and what fracturing could or not do.
these are things that either only the board knows or all shareholders should know....... not just the few who can or want to go to the meeting.
however...... it is a nice gesture, but we are aware that there is nothing that you or the ceo can disclose that could answer any of the questions raised here over the last month or so because of the NZX waiver that you applied for.
if i was a mind reader however i would love the opportunity to meet those that control our investments.
sadly i am not and therefore will moan on the sideline and wait for official announcements so as not to jeopardize the great wealth from the secret wells from Indonesia.
Naturally Balance. As you know and often expressed similar lines of thought ,, NZOG are straight forward ,honest,reliable,,etc..... etc.
No doubt you will be there as at the last AGM to uplift the board with a long speech of how honourable they have preformed since you last met them.
So see you at the meeting. Cheers
Hold your faith, Noggers - NZOG knows what it is doing.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nzog-dr...tner-wb-129540
"Work to date on Kakapo suggests "most likely" (P50) reserves of 41 million barrels of oil, and less certain reserves at the P10 level could run to several hundred million barrels."
From Anon : "This is a significant step forward for NZOG. They said they would resume a NZ campaign and they have. A highly prospective prospect."
From Maui Lad : "The new board and Ceo are doing a great job here. Keep up the good work. Aloha"
https://www.nzx.com/companies/NZO/announcements/238958
""While we are still enthusiastic about Kakapo and would love to drill it, it doesn’t fit our portfolio at 100% exposure when there is so much other activity underway."
What? Giving up on over US$4 billion of potential oil upside?
Just don't believe in the PR coming out if you want to stay committed to the story!
Like I said a while back.... NZO now in their fourth decade of oil exploration and still a wannabe!! Very disappointing indeed.
Watch them spend all that cash in the bank and all that coming in on misadventures.
Ten million dollars here (Tunisia) and $100m there (Pike River) and $30m every 6 months (dry holes) and nothing left for shareholders.
Meanwhile, directors and executives enjoy the good life.
Probably spending millions of shareholders' funds now on lawyers getting advice on how to protect their backside re Pike River.
They get the fees, you get the bills.
You like? :D
Someone else will get Permit 51311 and NZO will be the first to farm in.
Its hard to make the tough calls. To lay down a good opportunity for what the next hand will bring. As Kenny said you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them, Know when to walk and know when to run. Time will tell if its a good fold or not.
Disc, hold NZO for last 10 years and not running just yet, thinking drilling cards in Tui latter in year might be positive and I still have a hydraulic fracture program in hand
Slowlearning Gambler.
Some analysts still think NZO is a good proposition.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nzog-ce...tner-wb-143313
Quote:
Shares of NZOG last traded unchanged at 83 cents on the NZX and have declined 5 percent this year. The stock, which has shed 50 percent of its value in the past five years partly reflecting the failure of the Pike River Coal mine, is rated a 'buy' based on the consensus of six analysts polled by Reuters, with a price target of $1.
I certainly stand by my belief that Kakapo should have been drilled. It comes down to some trust in our geologists that they know what they are doing. If you think that the chances of success are X % then as I said before why need someone to hold your hand. Actually I am very disappointed and was looking forward to that drill. Whatever is their will stay there now and maybe in the future it will come up again. This announcement today is almost as bad as a dry well.
If we can't rely on the chiefs at NZO to get this company making big big money...then we as the Shareholders can make a difference...and stop complaining. If Andrew Knight was heading Shell or BP he would've been out by lunchtime a year ago!
my take on this is..... if they had got some early positive results from the Indonesian drill and got a defined number on the potential cash flow they would of kept Kakapo and run with it alone.... as they have $160 mill in the bank. but with the current well being dubious and the one being drilled now not being anything but a wildcat while the fist well is waiting for "fracturing" the board has no choice but to back off.
these guys are playing in areas where they are the small fish trying to catch a whale while local explorers are hitting oil in our own back yard.
this is the legacy of TR and it seems he is still controlling the reins or has placed people in position to take over his "reins" to his liking while being an "independent" director.
NZO will either get "lucky"....... while TR is still there or NZO will have to wait till TR is gone and then really apply its self.
in the meantime...... AWE is looking to sell of a guaranteed 50% of a 100 million barrel field (which NZO can afford to buy) but NZO wants to hit its own whale as operator and farm the costs off to someone else.
as if!!! ..... those in the "game" know that letting TR control a drill is a waste of money....... ergo the handing in of the Kakapo permit.
but that is my worthless view.
p.s..... any updates on the second drill in Indonesia? they are supposed to let us know drill spud and intersection of zone.
Watch out for the wily Geoff Albers. If there is anything to be gained from permit 51311 Octanex will be in like a robber's dog!
Has anyone seen the quarterly report-not on nzog website yet
It probably has less to do with Kakapo and more to do with NZO's enthusiasm over prspects. We've seen the Kakapo story several times before (Mangatoa and Ray prospects to name just two). Recall Mangatoa - it was touted as a huge 'overlooked' gas field that was also dropped after exhaustive efforts failed to find farm-in partners. I just hope Kakapo won't turn into another Maari (recall the Maari deposit was discovered and dropped by Petro-Taranaki to be picked up later as a bonanza for other companies).
They also passed on Goldie and Cheal. I think Greymouth ended up with Goldie, and Tag got Cheal. But the only people who "touted" Mangatoa were the media and headline writers. Sure, NZO promoted it, but they always said it was a very tight formation, and was going to difficult/expensive to commercialise. In the end they decided, sensibly, not to pursue it.
Unbalanced, why don't you get a life and let us getr on with managing our profitable investments.
http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...-(GPG)/page219
Eat your nogging heart out :D
http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...-(GPG)/page218
Belgarion just about picked the bottom and upswing bang on from 5 June - sp was 43 cents, now 54 cents = 25.5% gain. :D
During that time, NZOG has gone? :D
Arjay ,Monkeys writing novels,its like saying if someone took a sledgehammer and broke your
Watch into a million pieces then placed the pieces into a box,and asked the monkey to shake The box until the pieces reformed back into a ticking watch again. It will not happen.
Monkey Poms.
Arjay fancies himself as a master philosopher - trouble is he cannot get the analogies right.
This one will haunt him for a long time to come.
A chimpanzee could have told him that the analogy is that monkeys throwing darts at a stock sheet will strike as many good ones as the rated analysts out there.
Statistically it can happen Monkey Poms. If there are a million pieces then chance dictates that they will randomly fall back together if the monkey shakes the box enough times. The number of times will be astronomical, however as evidence that such things do happen note that Balance, NZO's greatest nemesis, did in fact complement the company after only around 3800 posts. If Balance can say something nice about NZO then a monkey can put a broken watch back together again.
Balance,
anything to report from your meeting with NZO on Friday?
That one had me laughting Arjay.
Just the other day the TV had a article about the scientific basis for the definite link between the full moon and its effect on people. I had wondered if it was the full moon that was responsible for Balances wayward praise of NZO. But I guess it can not be as the full moon comes every month and so far Balance praise has only happen once. Guess this would make a great psychological study. Wonder if he will live long enough for it to ever happen again.
Arjay the odds are about the same as the NZ Government giving back ( for free ) to NZO the most valuable asset that it has ever owned - Pike
with the consent to opencast the mine.
To work with a new set of DOC officials who will not repeat the damaging conditions once placed on the Pike management in the past.
With a guarantee NZO's management do not screw up and appoint a monkey who knows nothing about mining.
( as they were responsible in appointing one to run Pike from the start, he disappeared from the mess he created a short time before
the mine blew up ).
Arjay the odds. The monkey has a better chance of putting your watch together.
Monkey Poms.