I agree 100%. Its clear this company is only trading at the behest of the Govt and with its social welfare support and therefore all employees should have their salaries capped at the already extremely generous state salary sector level's.
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Air NZ resumes Taiwan passenger service for first time since pandemic began
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...pandemic-began
B757 pilots working for the govt get between $70t to around $120t per annum. I can understand that some of the AIR pilots may have more experience. Maybe apply the nurses seniority bonus of $3t a year. A pilot after 20 years after hitting 120t could justify 180t salary so say 30 years into the career.
That seems like a good basis for a complete reset of AIR's bloated cost structure fueled by a widespread "entitlement culture" (my opinion based on a number of discussions with several senior AIR employees), within the company. Apply the same remuneration structure across engineering too. If people don't like it they can always try and get a job elsewhere.
It won't happen though because nobody is brave enough to make these tough calls...
I’m not sure how much pilots earn but I know it is a highly skilled position and requires years of training in flight school at great expense and then more years flying small aircraft before they have “made it”. I knew a pilot flying small aircraft doing in PNG to get the hours.
On top of that the hours/conditions are I imagine worse than a 9-5. I don’t mind them being well remunerated.
Cabin crew are definitely very poorly remunerated for the hours they do.
I’m a lot more sympathetic to the air crew than execs on $4m/year.
Government pay rates never seem to match those in the private sector. That's one reason why so many leave to pursue private sector opportunities.
On an international comparative basis, the $70-$120k bracket for a Capitan seems quite low for anything but short-haul domestic services. AC paid their long-haul Captains more than double that with half the experience (in years) indicated above.
Is an experienced Captain with even only 5 years experience really only worth $70k? L1 IT Helpdesk staff receive around $55k-$65k, and that's considered an entry level role. Some further perspective is given when comparing this to the minimum wage which sits at the equivalent to $41,600 PA based on a mere 40 hour week. Although the number of flying hours per week/month/year are highly regulated, pilots also spend a large amount of additional time dealing with administrative issues which will distort the average earnings considerably.
The $400k bracket is likely to be LH sector Captains of planes like the 777-200ER, 787 etc. along with the ground based schedule planners (one of my school friends does this for a living now having given up being a captain), and exec's.
Hahahaha. Airforce pilots flying about 200 hours a year. Bugger all experience and getting trained and experience on the job. Get real.
Some airline pilots doing 800-1000 hours a year.
Airforce pilots need extensive airline training if they switch.
Different world.
Jeeeez
Try getting a line pilot doing a combat approach. That I would like to see. I have flown with some airline pilots as my pax doing aerobatics, I am not ex airforce btw, and they close their eyes on the first move almost without fail. Don't confuse 70 hrs a month airline with flying. System operator yes flying not so much. Wait for the accident report from the crash at Ardmore on T/O a couple of montha ago. Might be an eye opener. Just saying.
My last comment on this because it’s off topic but Dassets, you’re out of line with you last couple of sentences.
Unworthy of this forum IMO.
Also, this was about salaries that AIR is paying staff. I just want to say in no way was I denigrating military pilots.
They are selected for excellence and perform difficult tasks.
You just can’t compare conditions, total workload, skill sets, experience etc. Chalk and cheese.
It surprises me, the comments on this thread that would like to see smaller pay packets for AIR employees.
Typical shareholder sentiment I guess and to be expected but there is training, hard work, patience, capital outlay, experience and ability, sitting in behind these highly qualified and correspondingly well paid, staff.
Dassets is currently #3 out of 360 in the annual sharesight share competition. Very impressive !
AIR faces "Turbulence" https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...QYS3AITARHKII/ paywalled
ExcerptQuote:
Jarden analyst Andrew Steele said the firm continued to forecast Air New Zealand will need to raise $1.2b of additional equity, "an amount which we no longer view as a conservative estimate." "We retain our sell rating, reflecting our view that given Air New Zealand's requirement for what will likely be a highly dilutive capital raise, material ongoing near-term losses and lack of comfort on the timing and trajectory of any earnings recovery, the shares present a negatively skewed risk/reward profile," he said.
Understand what you are saying Biker, however the last comments are only factual. I do know what I am talking about unfortunately. Also I am on the wrong side of 50, started flying at 15 and currently own and operate a Class 3 aircraft. Facts in my book are never out of line but can be very painful. That is what makes aviation(and military) the learning systems they are. I am very experienced in markets and also have extensive turnaround experience. All at wholesale level, broker through to fund manager. Situations like AIR are brutal and I find it is better to make the hard calls early. Others may have a different opinion and that is what makes markets.
On an international basis AIR pay their flight crew particularly modestly, and whilst NZ is a great place to live, the lion's share of their long haul crews earning large amounts live and Auckland which is rapidly soaring up the list of the worlds most expensive cities.
Comparing air force pilots and airline pilots is particularly ignorant. Whilst maybe not the top guns that Dassets expects, the 'skills' airline pilots are remunerated for are largely to do with decision making, risk management and whilst hopefully not tested the majority of the time they can have an outsized impact on the bottom line for shareholders, passengers and everyone else involved if they make a mis-step.
The risk profiles in the military are vastly different evidenced in a way by the proximity they regularly fly to terrain.
The general cost of training to have an airline ready pilot is not less than 6 figures (and in NZ 5+ years as an apprentice building the pre-requisite experience) and this is a cost that is not worn by the airline.
My point is a little missed. Your comments are fine in a situation normal. Problem is lack of revenue and losses. It doesn't matter how much training has been done, cost of living in a place, ability to safety go from a to b. If there is no money or it is provided as a handout by government aka subsidy which is potentially illegal under WTO then get paid like a RNZAF driver. Sort of like why professional sportsman get paid, not because they are amazing but because of the revenue generated. In AIR's case you cannot afford to pay the pilots what they are being paid nor the executives. The game is up. Also check out the pilots that worked for other airlines eg Cathay. All back here now with no income.
There is none so blind as those that will not see. Economic reality is lost on some people but the truth is the supply and demand situation for airline pilots and engineers worldwide has dramatically changed and is unlikely to go back to what it was for many many years. For anyone with both eyes wide open AIR is ostensibly un-investable with its current cost structure and foreseeable outlook. A reset is badly needed to reflect the true reality of the foreseeable future.
I do think a reset of salaries is appropriate as the company is being effectively underwritten by the Govt and those left working for AIR are in principle quasi public employees and therefore their salaries should be those commensurate with a state owned organization.
You seem to have done well Dassets. Good on you.
However, it’s not about you, it’s about what AIR pay their staff.
I agree, facts are never out of line, and the more the better.
However your obtuse, idle speculation about the outcome of an accident investigation is what’s out of line, and it has nothing in common with facts or relevance to this thread.