Balance - check this out, maybe NOG should buy it, just $3m
http://www.businesssale.co.nz/13885/...farm-for-sale/
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Balance - check this out, maybe NOG should buy it, just $3m
http://www.businesssale.co.nz/13885/...farm-for-sale/
Good one Mr Tommy ,but as Balance will point out the article is incorrect. The piece has this mushroom factore as one of the biggest in the country. Surely NZO has made it shareholders into bigger mushrooms than you will find growing at any factory.Just ask Balance for further info.
I don't think many necessarily disagree with Balance's opinion, and indeed brings some 'balance' to the discussions. Yes, things are always 20/20 in hindsight, and I for one am incredibly sorry for what happened at Pike and it shouldn't be forgotten, I've learned lessons and of course lives were lost with many people in repsonsibility failing. I too am critical of NZO in a number of facets, and there isn't too many rose-tinted glasses among shareholders these days, at least on this discussion. However at some stage we've got to drop all the 'mushroom' BS and move on........
Agreed, SB.
But let NZOG directors and management make the first move to be open, transparent, truthful and be accountable to shareholders.
And starting point is for them to accept responsibility for the investment and management disaster that is Pike and contribute a year's of their directors' fees to the miners' fund.
Fair enough?
No, I'm sorry balance, you are still boring.
Your unending negativity and self-righteousness are boring many of us, not just me.
Really, if you don't own any shares, why do you bother to post your criticisms of the company? Do you really think you are saving us mushrooms from further folly?
Oh, I know, like a prostitute, you think you are doing a vital social service.
Yeah right!
Geez man, take a deep breath and go and find something more useful to do with your time.
If NZO gave you a hard time in the past, then go and see a therapist - don't take it out on us.
We are sick of you, you are boring.
This forum should be for open discussion about NZO. I am sorry to others to have made this personal, but this man is an irritant - he's been banned before, and most of us here are just sick of him.
Well said Lion and thank you for your post. I have had him on my ignore list for ages. Don't have to read any of his posts unless he is quoted.
The views of anyone is ok with me...so long as its not sounding like a bloody broken record.
No, no, I have no problem with anyone expressing any sort of opinion - I don't mind if they are different from mine at all, that's great.
I can see that NZO are not the perfect company, they have made mistakes, like any person or company must.
It's just the personal attacks (like the never-ending mushroom comment) and the inability to see anyone else's point of view that gets a bit tiresome.
I have balance on ignore and I just never bother to look at a thread when I see he has made a post.
Sorry again to be personal - he has dragged the standard of posting down and I'm afraid I have stooped to his level.
OK, I'm leaving this unpleasant discussion now, I feel sullied by stooping to B's level of personal attack.
L
I passed on the comments of my broker in the interests of an informed market - try and decipher the reply from NZO? And the reaction from Noggers?
It would have been most useful if NZO had responded by countering the concerns expressed by the fund managers - explain how NZO brings more than money to the overseas ventures.
Explain the soul-searching that has gone on in NZO after the miserable failures of recent years and destruction of wealth, and what has changed.
Explain why Andrew Knight was appointed and what kind of difference he will make when the market perception is that the old guard is still the puppet-master behind the scenes.
Answer those hard questions and NZO may yet attract some really serious institutional buying.
Instead, NZO persists in rolling out the same presentation year in, year out - rah rah bore bore.
Do Noggers tell NZO that they are sounding like a bloody broken record? Of course not. Why?
If Noggers had their way, anyone who is not into ramping up NZO's shares must be shouted down and banned.
That was what some of them were doing on the PRC thread until the mine blew up and killed 29 miners - only then did they back off.
Oh well, we know who has been right and who has been wrong.
Forecast EPS of 8.5 cents, NTA of 87 cents, dividend of 4 cents plus imputation.
Just curious, under these current fundamentals, what price would you pay for a share in NZO Balance?
Just click on their name and select "view profile" and from there select that option.
Silverlight this Cat is of the same opinion as Balance on NZO that it is a very big dog. You would have to pay me 10cents a share to take them off your hands
Forecast div of 6cps should lift it.
Just a small correction Siliverlight , it is 6 cents a share dividend that can be supported on current projections. Given that that could be the case for 10 or more years into the future considering the revenue income you can see why i hang on to this share. Pike which i am as quilty as any for supporting and believing in is now behind us. With a pure focus on just oil and gas this company will be NZ top dividend payer.
Can anyone name a NZ company that is likely to do better in div payments. Compare this to bank rates and to get 6 cents you would need about double the current SP in the bank to get this 6 cents. Good to also see that enought monies are left to do some drilling. We need a bit of both.
Thanks for that Possum the Cat,but as you understand how the market works ,i will lift your very generious offer to giving them 10 cents a share.So there you havce it a quick kill for Possum The Cat, you get them not for free but free + 10 cents and sell them to Digger for 10 cents. Foolish of me i know but i will take alll you can find.
My point here is into the future. I see TTK did in fact pay 8% on last years accounts.Are they going to this year? Also note that NZO has taken a hugh hit on PIKE last year and now can still come back and pay just under 8% dividend. That must speak volumns for income stream and i doubt that many if any other companies are going to match that sort of turn around.
Youve missed my point mr. Balance. You dont have to like NZO. But a bit of an insight of shares you do like, would show all,that you are a balanced chap after all.
interesting to note that many shareholders have written to the company regarding divis and the company responded with an early intention of divi disclosure. obviously they are under pressure to get the sp up. and it seems they are starting to listen to their owners.
last year they said some 8 or months out that there will be no divi then gave 3 cents when the pressure went on and the sp went down.
so this forum and it different viewpoints from posters is being listened to in head office....
without the likes of digger and balance and all the others in between, we wouldnt of got the notice we got today.
im very happy with the announcement today.
and i enjoy reading both diggers and balances viewpoints of this company.
from these viewpoints i start my decision making.
now i have to decide whether to load up on this news, or carry on planning my exit.
i havent bought shares for 5 years now in any company...... have been investing in myself and my lifestyle property instead.
but it seems we are at the beginning of better times for nzo.
Skid.....your probably not surprised...I agree with you....it would be great for Balance to disclose all ? his holdings ...sure he has disclosed DIL.....but hey.....
Balance....tell us what you hold and are enthusiastic about...Im sure that that your critical stance re NOG would be more tolerated/accepted if your to disclose the events surrounding other companies on the NZX....
...is my question unreasonable.....
Digger This cat takes in the cost of holding shares into his equation. I can make more money out of other shares, so NOG shares need to have an extra incentive to hold as I am an investor rather than a trader. So the ability to take your offer would possibly give me a very large tax liability. But asking to be paid to accept NOG shares gives you an idea how low I rate them as an investment.
Can any hat fit your head. The thoiught that your post had anything to do with it is conceit beyond absurdy.
Tony Randford gave out a big hint about 3 months ago that NZO was hoping to get back to at least traditional dividends for this tax year. So that announcement certaily did proceed your post above of about a week ago.
It is probably fair to say that the directors are noting the accumulative effect of all shareholders thoughts ,but certainly no one single poster has achieved this result. Certainly not by any non shareholder.
sounds like a tui billboard--NZO has issued a 6 cents dividend because of 1 unhappy sharetrader poster--YEA RIGHT
PS - congrats to all of you who hung in there
Hanging in there all the way from $1.50 down down down?
The crumbs from the top table must taste good?
Blow $1 billion down the shaft and dry holes, grudgingly pay a misery 6 cps dividend after giving the big thumbs down by institutions and it's celebration time?
Gee, the board of NZOG must be rolling with laughter into their champagne and caviar - they have their shareholders so well trained!
Throw a few pieces of stale leftovers and bones with morsels of dried meat on them off the top table and watch them shareholders perform tricks!
UTILICO INV. LTD.
BERMUDA
Purchases just short of 20 mil. SHARES ON MARKET between 1/6/12-6/6/12
Total shares traded over the period on nz S/X Change in round figures
1/6/12 = 863000
5/6/12 = 510000
6/6/12 = 241000
TOTAL =1614000 These went trough on average of 74 cents. nz
I got no volumes for Shares traded on the Oz. market over the same period, which is generally very thin.
Am i missing something here?
So can we have any indication how this was accomplished.
Where, on what date, in which on market transaction and at what average price?
I am quite impressed with the caliber, timing and quality of the investment Manager of that co.
Or was it perhaps just a happy coincidence that 2 days later, NZO announces a fully imputed 6pcs Div. and the S/P climbs up 3,5 cents. [ I UNDERSTAND THE LATTER]
What a windfall.
I hope i am drawing the wrong conclusions, so can you please trow some light on this.
K/R
Albert
And volume
This dividend shows the management has exactly no idea on how to progress this company. A company with a share price around 75cents paying a 6cents dividend shows the management has no clue as how to progress the company. Liquidation would be a better idea.
The SSH notice can be read here
You file a SSH once your holding reaches or exceeds 5%.
With 392,787,795 shares kicking around you can hold 19,639,389 and keep quiet about it.
On 1st June 2012 Utilico reached a total of 19,890,139 shares. Thus they could have acquired as few as 250,750 shares on that day.
Presumably they have been acquiring for a while.
The will next have to file if they drop below 5% or reach or exceed 6.06%
best wishes
Paper Tiger :)
Dividend of 6cps. I wonder whether this is sustainable year on year or whether they will start digging into cash reserves
The management knows exactly what they are doing in paying the dividend - keep the well-trained leftovers shareholders quiet for a while.
Liquidation would mean the directors and management foregoing millions of fees, commissions, consultancy work, perks and salaries each year - why do that when a few crumbs will keep the easily-satisfied shareholders in check?
Thanks for that Paper-Tiger!
In that case just good timing.
Cheers.
Exactally as how i see it Paper tiger. Just below 5% they can sit for years and tell no one if they want.
My guess is that they bought these shares just after the TUI downgrade as at that point the market got the spooks about NZO and shareholders were dropping at any price. Schrewd move on their part to go against the crowd. Good on them.Now in hindsight some will complain but then you could have done it yourself.
On the other hand,those that bought within the last 8 months are doing fine and enjoying a 6cent divi.
Thats what its all about is'nt it? What to do from here forward.
Alot of things have happened to alot of outfits in the past years. Everyone has a different entry and exit point. You look at as many facts as you can get your hands on[and appreciate those who find them for you],and do your best to leave your emotions at the door.
You decide if its a good investment NOW and either jump on [or hold] or dont
On another note, I have mislaid last years dividend info. Can anyone advise where I can find individual details online so I can complete my tax return?
cheers
https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/sec.../NZO/dividends
or go to Computershare site and using your CSN and FIN numbers you will find all there:
https://www-au.computershare.com/inv...&cc=NZ&lang=en
The Power of One, can this humble person of no worth ask if this dividend is more or less imbedded in or does it still await your approval? I realise you may be tooo busy with some problems in the far reaches of the galaxy but i can assure you your thoughts on this small matter here at this insignificant part of the universe would be appreciated.
I haven't posted for a while (and you can say thanks for that!) but is Balance aka Duncan MacGregor or am I mistaken?
I hear you, little grasshopper with aged eyes and tired wings.
There are those who look at things and ask "why". Then, there are others who look at the same things and ask "why not."
Ask the wrong question but it is possible to get the right answer from a wise one.
The obvious is most likely the right answer.
Sp was moving up ahead of the announcement - it is priced in.
Now let those tired wings rest and let those aged eyes regain their youth.
Hope that helps.
But of course, ye of many encounters with bad management and dodgy characters in your travels in the wilderness of mining , what are knowledge and experience for but to share with those who appreciate such profoundness.
Now Praying Mantis begth thee to share thy profoundness - why do you think NZOG is doing so badly with Pike and with all their other investments post Tui and Kupe?
I'll start with Icehot, Haka and Sharebroker?
SSSSSSSSSSniper
how about Power of One, or POO for short?
MMMMMinder?
Stop moaning are you so biased that you do not like anybody having a different opinion of this DOG of a mismanaged company. A barge pole would be to short to touch it with.
Stop moaning?? So are we not allowed to have a different opinion to you and balance? Who's biased here, eh?
Mr market says NZO is OK, going by the last 2 days of trading.
Your "DOG" seems like a sweet fluffy puppy to me!
I'd touch it with a barge pole or anything else - feels good to me.
RR
P.S. possum, you pussy, you meant too, not to
could be ron brierly, long time grudge against TR
Wow! Stunning logic about Mr Market!
NZOG sp has been declining since September 2009 - only 700 days plus of decline.
Sp is back to where it was in 2004!
But Mr Market says NZOG is ok - based on 2 (my eyes read 2 so it must be 2) days of trading!
Mr Market is Market of 2 then?
Made my day - best laugh I have had for a while.
Thanks, Lion!
Lets stick to attacking the messages not the messengers regardless of name or motives of the messenger, seems to me that over time Balance has demonstrated a high strike-rate with being on the money and so have of course others along similar lines.
So yes have opinions, but proving someone else to be factually wrong would be more helpful.
Yup - one could anything if one picks the right two time points.
What is irrefutable is that NZOG's sp is back to where it was in June 2004.
From 2004 to today, NZOG raised over $250m from shareholders - all gone. The destruction of wealth has been massive - close to $700m since 2008.
During the 8 long years, there have been 5 dividends with many Noggers opting for shares under the DRP scheme.
Meanwhile, add up the directors' fees and management salaries - gives you an idea of what NZOG is about.
Lion you still dislike any poster having a different view of this share. You have to attack the poster rather than present an argument for your position. Except for the fact I know he is dead, I would think you were a reincarnation Of G Stolwck. Attack the post if you can not the poster. I get more information from the negative posts rather than the blatant ramping from the positive posters.
In defense of Lion we never hear anything new from balance. He is a stuck record. Same sh.. different day. Absolute bore. The "I am great, all of you are stupid" attitude. Again and again. People get sick of it and thus the comments.
Feedback from broker and fund managers - as new as you can get. Can't help it if you do not like the infor.
As per usual, Power of One here copped a heap of abuse for sharing the infor.
Woud have been useful if Noggers use the infor to improve the communication from NZO. Alas, attack the messenger.
A genuine request in the interest of fair-play and harmony, please tell us, 777, what new infor have Lion and you share with us?
Yes, indeed but in June 2004 it only had 128 million shares on issue and a market cap of about $90 million, against today's market cap of about $300 million
Or you could say that from 2008 to today NZO has not raised any money from its shareholders and is unlikely to do so in the immediate future.
Oh, and how do you get 700 million by the way? In my books it's "only" about half that....
Here's a fact then, with no personal attacks.
Between last Friday and last night, NZO rose on both the NZX and ASX.
I noted that, no more, no less and I was 100 % correct.
I am glad that fact gave you one of the best laughs you have had in a while Balance.
Another fact-I have a friend who is invested in NZO.
I checked him over very carefully-one head ,two arms ,two legs,etc...After alot of thought my careful prosthesis is ...he is a person ,not a mushroom
Bring in any of the directors and management expertise from Oil Search or Origin, and things will start happening.
But which of them could be bothered? Australian oil companies grow from strength to strength, and are multi-billion businesses.
How do you create a small oil and gas company? In NZ, start with a big one!
Balance - you are repeating your pokies again. Tell us who the fund managers are if it is true.
Refer to the post from Chris Roberts at NZOG, number 11773 on 31 May:
Balance, what absolute drivel. NZOG has not been "hosted" by any firm - the only meeting in the past four months was with retail shareholders, including some contributors to this thread (Balance wasn't eligible to attend because he's not actually a shareholder). The last briefing given was a webcast following release of the March Quarterly Report and is on our website for anyone to listen to.
"hosted"?
Mr Roberts may like to tell us the fund managers and brokers Mr Andrew Knight has met in the last 2 months?
I will state my position again for your benefit - I will take the words of my broker anytime, any place and with utmost confidence, compared to that from NZOG.
This from NZOG in 2009 : "In August, PRC announced that initial production from the mine was at lower rates than envisaged,
delaying the first shipment of coal until the first quarter of 2010. This further delay, while disappointing, is a short-term issue, and NZOGremains confident in the development at Pike.
PRC has indicated that as a result of the delays it has further working capital requirements and is currently examining various options."
This from the Power of One at the same time :
"Trouble is that these guys have been over-promising for 2 years! People in real life who do that either are poor learners or are desperate. I read PRC as desperate - keep promising so the cash keeps coming in to cover the poor planning, execution and problems.
The Indians have decided not to tip in any more money. That is very telling."
Ask yourself this question - Who do you choose to believe?
Balance - you stated: "Feedback from broker and fund managers - as new as you can get"
Are you a politician or something. Never a straight answer.
Please answer the simple question, who is the fund manager who has met NZOG in the last 2 months.
Dont start hiding behind your "brokers words", unless it is all just hearsay.
And pray tell me, why should I reveal my sources? So that NZOG can exact censure on my sources in future? Get REAL!
Since you are so good at asking questions and making accusations, why don't you ask Mr Roberts what he means by "hosted."
Come on, be brave - do us a favor and ask the question.
Deep down inside, me thinkth you know the answer but is too afraid to have the information confirmed.
Balance
you posted "as new as you can get" information, the NZOG PR man says theres been no meetings for 4 months, I just wonder who is right.
Or are you implying this all comes down to the interpretaion of the word "hosted" which you used in your original post on the subject.
Just ask the PR guy what he meant by "hosted."
BTW, I do not think that fund managers are necessarily right in the decisions they make - they do however reflect the thinking of the biggest chunk of the NZ market so cannot be ignored.
Example, many of us who bought RBD when the institutions were selling out are rather happy with their decision. In fact, AMP selling down its 10% stake at 58 cents constituted one of the greatest ever opportunities in the market to make some serious dosh off them!
Balance, hosted was in quotation marks because you used it yourself in your original claim: "Feedback from fund managers after a firm hosted NZOG."
I am not sure how I can make myself any clearer - the last time we had an offsite meeting with fund managers was over four months ago. The only offsite shareholder meeting in the past four months was in Auckland with retail shareholders, including some contributors to this thread. The last time we did a briefing for investors from our own offices was the Quarterly Report briefing at the end of April which was webcast and which is available on our website to listen to. The next planned offsite meetings are actually coming up soon, and there will be information released ahead of those meetings.
Individual shareholders - be they institutional or retail - do from time to time get in touch with NZOG. We welcome that. If a shareholder has a query, we do our best to answer it. But there has been no briefing of the type you claimed.
Your views on NZOG are quite clear and you are not a shareholder, so I have no particular desire to engage you in debate. But I can't let you put out false information unchallenged.
Have a good day.
Hi Digger et al,
Wondering whether or not you could clarify something for me re the statement re the forthcoming dividend please. I read as though there probably will be a 6 cent dividend announced at the AGM in August. Am I correct in thinking that it will be a fully imputed dividend?? That would mean approx 8cents pre-tax and in excess of a 10% dividend yeild at the current SP of 77 cents. Cost is around $24 million in cash.
Looking at the numbers from Kupe and Tui together with cash on hand, it could be a sustainable long term amount. NZo should be able to net in excess of $50 million pa in the coming years from existing assets. Pay out and retain rest for development?? Thoughts??
Thanks
Gazprom
PS currently do not hold
Snr. Balanced
Your ideas as with each personas is good - possible a little less times.
Why not start a competition to sort this out post your estimate of the share price on 30th June 2013 that is if NZO even exists then.
Lot of useless but fun idle chatter lately. Now meanwhile back at the ranch I wonder what is in the wind that has stopped the buyback. At current rates it will take about 6 years to buyback the origional 10 million dollars set aside to to this .Also suppost to be completed buy end of Sept--if i remember correctly. So what is up??
Now there you are Balance something to get your teeth into. I am sure the buyback was just forgotten about as they are imcompetent ,etc.etc,etc
Balance, More nonsense. It's fine to criticise but not to insinuate improper behaviour. When the dividend intention was announced, the NZOG share price was at 75c and was flat for the day on smallish volume. It immediately jumped 2 cents AFTER the announcement. Over the previous month, in line with the broader market, the share price had moved slowly down from 79cents before starting to recover slightly, again in line with the broader market.
The share buyback was announced back on 1 Nov 2011. On the 26/27 October, immediately following the NZOG AGM, the share price had risen. All to do with investor confidence following that meeting, and nothing to do with the share buyback announced the following week.
The only "strange" thing here is your relentless campaign of mis-information against a company you have no investment in. Enjoy the weekend and stay warm.