Not meant to insult you at all, but I wish remaining holders could gain at your magic!!
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I see evidence of sexism on the ATM thread when I read it. I just trawled through the CBL thread because it was a company where people lost money recently, and surprise generally the tone was respectful and restrained, unlike the ATM thread. No name-calling for the CEO, he was called Peter Harris or Mr Harris. No putdowns for him like G.I Jayne, Damsel-in-Distress, Plain pain Jayne. The only putdown I found was for Jacinda. There were even positive comments for Peter Harris.
The directors sold down shares too but the comments were very mild compared to ATM. There was also quite a bit of criticism of FMA and NZX. So the contrast was very interesting. I picked out some of the strongest comments.
BTW Mr Harris wasnt just Ernest and Young's Entreupreneur of the Year 2017, but he was also voted Young Entreprenuer of the Year back in 1989. Actually given this latest stuff one cant disagree with the accolades in a kind of warped sense.
Say what you will about Mr Harris, but he is a bright cookie ( despite the mess his group is stuck in ) and no one should expect him to sit back as his life's work dies.You can gather a lot about an executive with how they resolve situations just like this one... all eyes on Pete
Disappointed - I thought better of Peter Harris - the so called "entrepreneur of the year 2017"!
Good one, CBL directors & management - most honorable of them to meet their reinsurance obligations (in contravention of RBNZ directions) to ensure that Alpha's obligations can meet its obligations!
What a bunch of freaking turkeys.
What a total mess and I bet we haven't seen half of it yet !
Goodness me...what a freaking mess!! hope u all did not lose too much on this sinking ship!
He must have known at the time he accepted the award that his entrepreneurial work is already down the drain ... and he still smiled for the photographer, unless he is an incredible clueless legend ...
You have said it all Black Pete. I have no words to describe Harris’s behaviour.
Do these people have no shame.
I hope the Directors/MD are charged if there is evidence of gross negligence or fraud. The only words I can find in describing this behavior might be unsuitable for publication. Any ideas?
What an absolute disgrace and abdication of responsibility and accountability to insurance policy holders!
Directors sold down shares too
Just the one sell down, in april 2017 when MD and chairman sold a combined 10.4 mill shares , 4 % of the company to increase "liquidity" and repeating how healthy the company is. And FNZ increased holding from 5% to 6% plus in Jan 2018, they will be spewing along with the rest of us.
Directors and management selling shares to increase liquidity for the benefit of all shareholders is such a noble thing to do. Shareholders should be so grateful for such a generous gesture from the likes of Harris Hutchinson and all.
The sell down by Harris and Hutchinson (discharged bankrupt) in April 017 virtually moments after their shares came out of escrow. The lame reason given at the time viz : “ to increase liquidity “ was actually crap because the buyers were only a few.
NZX, FMA, RBNZ and of course, CBL directors & management - DO YOUR FREAKING JOB!
What a sick joke the NZX and FMA are at looking proactively after investors' interests.
What a shambles. This stuff rocks ones confidence in the NZX as a platform for transparent markets.
What exactly is the FMA obligated to do for the market in NZ?
For certain crimes against humanity or investors as in this case I think that a good Stoning would be in order. We should all send the FMA a bag of rocks. Trouble is the Pooftas wouldn't know how to throw them.
Schoolyard bullies - that's what the NZX and FMA are unfortunately so market better not expect any sort of regulatory comfort from them.
EDIT - just looking at this dudes dopey face makes me want to punch my screen in. (Bascand)
Beating up on the RBNZ and the FMA in this case is like blaming the cops for a murder
Well I see evidence on the ATM thread when I read it of a lot of very unhappy people who are rightly upset because the NEW CEO ditched ALL her shares and the share price has tanked. Some people will have lost a lot of money as a result of this. Spare a thought for them. If the tone of this thread upsets you maybe you should stop reading it. Just my thoughts on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by moka;732402[B
People lost a lot of money with CBL too but I didn’t see the same hostility or name-calling towards the CEO on that thread. CBL losses are permanent whereas ATM losses are not. ATM has always been volatile and it will bounce back. I previously said that women are judged more harshly than men when they make a mistake in the business world and that is what I see on the ATM thread. With women the mistake is often used as evidence that women are incompetent whereas with men the same mistake is brushed off or ignored. Double standards = sexism.
We all lose money in individual stocks at least occasionally in the share market. It is how it works.
I, you and them have no more right to be upset this time then any other time and if we need to put so much emotion into vilifying someone else then we should get out of the game.
It is interesting on NZX we are down by 1% and Oz gained by 1%. Hopefully the SP shall bounce from here??? BTW don't know if it is a good thing or not UBS has reducing their holding a little. May be it is if they are shorting...
Found this article. Not a good news for atm I guess. DSC: used to hold some.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...customs-checks
I'm well seasoned in selling for a loss from time to time, don't have a lot of emotion about it, however this situation was unprecedented in that a CEO sold ALL her shares after being in the job for a couple of months. She is a Trougher of the highest order with a history of the same so yes people are going to get upset, anger and frustration are completely normal responses and have nothing to do with whether one should get out of the game or not.
You either haven't been here very long or you arent widely read. I shant go through them all but the following come to mind
Derek Handley Snakk
David Darling PEB
The old fullah who's chair of Sky
Alan Hubbard Canterbury Finance
Glen Martin, Martin Aircraft
Baker, the absent chair of Turners
The engagement (?) ring guy at ALF
Search for the Dumb Directors thread or whatever its called.
All (or at lest most men) have been right royally roasted for their very poor performance.
So enough of this "sexism" gender diversity bull****. If the chicks want equal seats they got to be prepared for equal flack - as do their brain numbed flakey followers
I agree with this statement I was about to post something similar and I know Derek Handley has been the butt of many jokes, as well as a David Darling. I am tired of whenever we take a dig at someone for their ethics, gender is brought into the discussion. I love women and am a feminist of the old not new order believing in equal rights equal pay. I want to see more women at the top. I was always told the tallest trees in an organisation should also expect the most wind about their decision making. Man or woman period.
The one thing is that people who generally take strong positions concerning sexism don't normally change their thought patterns over time. He/She has a right to an opinion and sometimes will be correct on their view of things, but to when they are not correct, usually they still seem to see things from their point of view and cry foul.
The ceo was entitled to sell, she probably flagged she would need to before she took the job. Especially if she thought the share price was overcooked, which despite comments on here is a legitimate opinion for a ceo to have. No matter how optimistic she is about atm’s prospects at some price it is overvalued.
In my view, Unless they are planning to raise equity, the ceo should not concern herself with the share price in the short term (despite how they are commonly incentivised). Instead she should focus on creating long term value. Ideally the opinions of traders should be completely ignored. The board needs to ensure her remuneration package is aligned with creating long term value.
I hold a small parcel and don’t concern myself with the SP day to do or month to month. So far the share price has fallen a lot on no actual bad news, I find that interesting.
James posted - share price has fallen a lot on no actual bad news, I find that interesting.
He hinted earlier in the post why — the share price is over cooked (Jayne might or might not think that but many do)
Absolutely I accept that. But in her video she bangs on about diversity in thinking. As CEO it also incumbent on her to think about what actions she takes which might bring the company share price down or conversely up.
I'm not aware that she flagged to the market the likelihood of her selling 100% of her stake within a few months of starting the job.
If she is in the job for a reasonable period of time then it is quite possible that while the SP might be overcooked today it ought not be in 3 years time when she could have sold for a nice gain on leaving the company.
ATM is all about China and IF, but who on here is buying milk?
Don't you feel sorry for those poor people living in South and West Auckland.
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Feeding baby in China isn't a luxury. Their is a strong reluctance to breast feed (myths, misinformation, lack of milk expressing facilities at work, need to get back to work, lack of breast feeing promoting and nurse specialists etc). So milk formula is pretty much a necessity.
Given its nearly a necessity, teh Chinese dont have a lot of confidence in the quality of their home produced product. They want what is best for baby for a safety perspective. So foreign milk formula is highly desirable.
Teh Chinese (Asians) have difficulty processing A1 milk protein, so arguably so does baby.
So what is a good mother with money to do. Buy foreign, A2 infant milk formula. It will be a strong government that tries to prevent this. And in whose interests are best served. A happy politician is one with a happy wife. And a happy wife is one with a foreign produced, non A1 infant milk formula supply
Found this article. Not a good news for atm I guess. DSC: used to hold some.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...customs-checks
Please read the article through to the ends. Cosmetics are not luxury item but still chinese govt charge tax on them on entry.
"Chinese shoppers have taken to social media to decry the customs crackdown. One photo circulating on WeChat showed a tax receipt issued by customs at Shanghai Pudong Airport on Sept. 28 to a traveler surnamed Wang in which the shopper was slapped with 17,100 yuan in import taxes on Tom Ford lipsticks, SK-II skincare products and other goods from La Mer and Sulwhasoo."
They are short of money due to trade war and try to block outflow of money. One should understand that china is NOT free market system. Govt controls everthing and If the they decide to do something , then they just go for it regardless of anything.
Just saying that you can not understand china with western thoughts.
One thing I am happy about is that A2 is supplied by Synlait for the Chinese market. One of the major shareholders of Synlait is Chinese and they will have some idea how to make it work to benefit everyone. I see longterm up trend, but short term fluctuations. As long as profits keep increasing I will keep holding, but the sale of all of Janes shares concerns me a little as it does when any CEO sells all their shares. I have balanced a little to make sure I am not too exposed to A2. One needs to think with their head and not with their heart.
So what I am hearing is that there is more pain than usual from these losses i.e. unprecedented, “walk a few miles with gravel in their shoes and feel some of the shareholder’s pain.” Why is it so painful? I think there is more to it than just the financial loss. I believe it is painful and hurtful because of unconscious biases regarding gender identity and gender roles. Unconscious biases are learned stereotypes that are automatic, unintentional, deeply engrained, universal, and able to influence behaviour. Unconscious bias refers to a bias that we are unaware of and which happens outside of our control. It is a bias that happens automatically and is triggered by our brain making quick judgements and assessments of people and situations, influenced by our background, cultural environment and personal experiences.
Beliefs about strict gender roles can trigger a feeling of insecurity because things are out of control, things are not how they should be. Men should be in control. Men should be the boss. Men were born to rule. This is what it means to be a real man. Many men are uncomfortable with a woman being in control, being the boss. It threatens the whole idea of what it means to be a man. If a woman is strong it means they are weak, that they are victims. This happens when people have a win/lose mindset rather than a win/win equality mindset.
When I look at the charts all I seeing is human emotions. Those numbers represented sellers and buyers doing what they think is right for them. No one is comfortable loosing money either on paper or real loss. I don't believe this has got to do with the CEO is a woman or a man i.e would people be less angry if the CEO was a man and sold all of his shares after a couple of months and the SP went down ever since. I think the feed backs on here would be pretty much the same.
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Will be interesting to watch the SP action this week, has the Trough effect started to wear off? or will other uncertainties keep the price bouncing around like a rubber ball? I've given my middle finger to the CEO and her actions but continue to hold some because I reckon the company is bigger than her at the end of the day.
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The shares are "interestingly" poised very near the bottom of the recent trading range but a weak Wall St on Friday won't help. Worth Noting that the Bell Potter analyst went on to say that their preferred exposure was Synlait and their price target was $12.65.
I am a firm believer that actions speak louder than words so would simply highlight this "In total, 16 directors and executives sold about 3 million shares" This isn't happening at Synlait is it. Disc: Sold all ATM, topped up Synlait on Firday.
looks like you have cut and paste bits and bobs
may i remind you that your cut and paste is full of wish ful thinking and that this is the official line
New Zealand officials are largely in the dark as to any possible ramifications for New Zealand companies. "It is important to stress that the details of implementation and the ensuing full implications for New Zealand companies have not yet been released," a spokesman for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE) said.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12133682
attach a link to your story from afr
anyway friday action in aus was a bullish harami so the story is timely to match the chart pattern haha nice.
My article was from the AFR... :D
https://www.afr.com/business/retail/...0181005-h169cs
Just thought I would share it here.
Just "Believe in better" ...as the sign behind Jayne says
I would imagine A2 would have had enough time to do their own investigation into the regulatory changes and they seem pretty confident, especially Peter Nathan. Dealing with China of course always comes with a certain level of risk.
That's correct, my mistake.
Can't see any problem with "Cut and Paste" provided the publication and writer is acknowledged.
It would have been better to be able to post this on STMOD announcement thread but that is not open to allow discussion.
My understanding (from experience) is that it is definitely ok to post a link (something the linked publication would be most happy about as that's how they spread their publications and profiles).
A synopsis of the article as written by you is of course fine and a few selective 'cut and paste' to support your synopsis is also fine.
Wholesale cut/copy and paste is absolutely a no-no!
Anyway..... as the articles were saying (and it is OK to paraphrase) ATM's sales of IF in China have now reached 5.4% of a $US20 billion market, and you can work out what that equals for ATM (and the market is growing at 20% pa.)
In addition, management of ATM were refuting claims that changes in Chinese regulations would damage A2's IF sales, saying the proposed new regulations were welcomed.
In summary... it's not all doom and gloom for ATM (according to the article and management)
the afr article is one of the most poorly written article i have seen for a long time , it contains so much she will be right assumptions based on no facts its laughable. even the ceo and the other country manger suggest a she be right attitude but they are none the wiser about the new rules than you or me. clearly this article was written to benefit a bounce in the price from critical levels which if broke would have most probably led to sizable falls in price.
at the agm how can they forecast sales when they yet do not know the rules?
Good on you Winner. Keep the focus on those incredible numbers. Folks, forget about Herdlicker for now. The real story is whether A2 is in or out with the change in the Chinese regulations, and it appears right now, nobody knows.
UBS has reduced there holding already probably lent itr to short sellers?
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/324952
The rules are that ATM will continue to be able to sell its infant formula and milk via stores directly in China.
The daigou platform may or may not continue - doubt it will be catastrophe for ATM as it would be for those companies which rely exclusively on the daigou platform.
I forgot to give credit to Leftfield for the summary of the numbers. I read similar articles. As I understand it, the chinese reg changes were targeting the use of foreign exchange for the purchase of luxury goods like high end perfumes, Gucci bags and jewellery etc. - items bought for their elite status value that goes against chinese govt values. The question is whether IF is considered a luxury. In light of the melamine incident where the contaminated IF did kill babies, it is no wonder that chinese mothers will seek a safe source of IF like A2 and be prepared to pay the extra 6% duty that the reg change will impose.
Correct me if i'm wrong. UBS bought 37,086513 on 3/10/18 closing price that day was $11.08c. They sold 5,859,977 on 4/10/18 and closing price was $10.70c. The high was 10.97 and low of 10.65 for 4/10/18 lets say an average of about 10.81 for the day. So 11.08-10.81=.27c x 5,859,977= a loss of about $1,582,193 for the day.
It looks like those who bought back in low to mid $11 are on track to make an easy 10% return after the tantrum last week.
IMHO the current sell-down has been overdone. I see fair value around $NZ 14 - 15 within 6 months. I don't see Winner's 100% growth pa, all I see is a company likely to continue to out-perform ( i.e. grow faster) than the NZX average performance for the foreseeable future. Roll on the next update.
Mate - Six months ago you and others thought $20 by Christmas :p Nobody really knows do they. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo
Same old same old !! waiting for Aussie to "open " before market decides which way to jump !!
Quite funny when I rebalance and sell some of my stock A2 stock flies up in value. You can only laugh as crying won’t help haha
We all knbwo that is what is going to happen. Thats what ATM does. Up and down up and down up and down. All for some unknown reason. (those as pointed out above I Suspect most people have collected their toys from outside the cot and happy to get back into playtime again. I'm a bit less grumpy now!)
Iceman kindly reckons we should lighten up this week and I reckon that's a good idea. Ready to buy something but it won't be ATM. Nobody knows for sure the implications of the new ecommerce rules into China, the proclamation probably hasn't even been translated into English yet lol
I mentioned at the meeting on Sat. What com. do you think could go up by about a dollar in the next 4 weeks. Am wondering if a2 could?
Welcome to the funny farm. Was meant to be buying OCA today but put an order in to buy a small portion of ATM I sold last week at 10.70, and looks like sp coming down to meet that order. Just went through at 10.78. Things are starting to look up at the funny farm. Sorry OCA maybe at a later date......5pm Well that was a total waste of time, back to where it started:scared:. Somebody rattling the cage again trying to get us all peeved off so to make us sell everything. I suppose it is cheaper doing it that way than putting in a takeover offer.
If I was just starting share trading in this environment I would not want to hop onto this share prior to the meeting next month. It is just too volatile and people could lose a lot of money. I still believe in this company, but I did want to lose some of the stress and put it into safer shares like Infratil and Oceania to name a couple. I still own a few thousand of these shares, but am looking at trimming if things don't go as they plan.
good trading today in aus up 30 down 30 probably go negative soon
fool saying take some milk off the table
https://www.fool.com.au/2018/10/08/s...asxa2m-shares/
Well that was a bogey day, closing flat on the NZX and down 5 on the ASX. Interesting to see a weekend of progressive optimism creep into the discussion narrative, then for that to manifest itself in a rally in the morning, a bit of uncertainty to follow and then burn off in light of reality in the afternoon. I reckon there's a lot smarter money preying on the insecurities of the retail minnows, not to mention the automatons doing their unemotive thing preying on the defenceless punters.
Patience, wait and watch, act when your strategy is triggered. You do have a strategy eh?
The support line is around 10.50's , and has been hit 3 times now in the last 6 months . If the line holds we could be in for a short uptrend before the meeting . Looking to buy ,with a short stop loss . See what happens tomorrow .
The support line is around 10.50's , and has been hit 3 times now in the last 6 months . If the line holds we could be in for a short uptrend before the meeting . Looking to buy ,with a short stop loss . See what happens tomorrow . 4% rise n fall today, makes a nice pin- bar . Actually got to $10 back in May . Should be an interesting week .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lByBtCKM98s
Bloomberg interview with the CEO. 3:26 if you want to hear her discuss the share sale.
Thanks for this.
Now we now why there is an increase in the marketing spend as previously advised by the trougher, it's because: "word of mouth" is the main a2 marketing strategy.
She struggled a bit at the end to clearly justify her sell off, but what is done, is done.
"My personal motives are inextricably linked to shareholders" Hmmmm...She has a long history in her career of selling down shares shortly after they vest as reported by NBR recently.
funny, I was kind worried when she was talking about she still got twice ATM shares......
While, arguably, shareholders who hold dont lose money they do most certainly loose value. A sale is cementing the loss.
Prospects are potentially worse. You want a CEO who uses sound judgement to run a company aligned to directors governance which is aligned to shareholder / owner expectations and with the ultimate aim of returning positive value to shareholders. Be that either dividends or an increase in capital value. The consequence of using her judgement is a severe erosion of shareholder value - which is not a competent judgment nor decision. And that is without delving into her judgement that left her with an outstanding tax bill that require a saher sell off and also considering putting money into investments other than ATM.
bit of tongue and cheek
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