I too expect more very positive announcements.....
Biased...You have been right on the money with DPC,so I don't think you are biased at all.!!!
I see the market cap is now over $200m. They must be getting pretty close to a top 50 stock in NZ and if that did happen would that mean instos would be climbing on board? Or is the top 50 a while off because too much of DPC is closely held? Does anyone know which stock is the number 50 at the moment?
needs to trade above 25c for at least 6mths for starters
DPC has a 19.9% shareholder. The following is a list of shares that are (by my guesswork) nearly in or nearly out of the NZX50.
It assumes that DPC 19.9% stake is part of the free float.
DPC would need to make 42c to be in contention (i.e. ahead of Synlait at 264m) and I've been assured on this forum that this 'just ain't going to happen'.
If my assumptions are right, Vista, MPG and Synlait are in, and SKL, NZO and NZX are out.
ff% Curr ff RBD 100% 364 IN VGL 100% 307 STU 100% 293 PEB 100% 290 IN MPG 82% 286 OUT SKL 94% 268 IN SML 50% 264 OUT NZX 100% 256 ERD 100% 234 HBY 73% 222 IQE 75% 222 OUT NZO 80% 215 DPC 100% 208 THL 100% 189 HLG 100% 179 PGW 50% 177
I agree.
As one with knowledge of its poor background .. Also having scoffed a few posts back ... I re-cast my eyes over it.. and purchased an infinitesimal amount..
Enough to place a little cheer on the table on the 25th if i was so inclined.. with the up coming dividend.
Will be building :-)))
Thanks for your work there. I really appreciate that. I called the NZX but they were rather coy about releasing this kind of info as they said they could "sell" it to third parties and it was worth $ to them. But for DPC to get to 42 is not that much of a stretch. THe NZX also said they do their weightings for index in and exclusion on a 6 month weighted average capitalisation to smooth out any dips and rebounds etc.
As to why there is no analysts covering this stock... once they are included in an index, this may change and will provide even more share price appreciation as the market "wakes" up to its potential. Lets see what Byrnes et al can bring this year.
The takeover of Turners worked well for DPC with more than expected TUA shareholders taking DPC shares/bonds.This , with the capital raised has left DPC with funds for another acquisition.
DPC will change their name to Turners to take advantage of Turners excellent/strong brand name.
12 month target price? With strengthening balance sheet,possible further acquisitions,name change to Turners,and more runs on the board,I think 50 to 60 cents is possible.
i get valuations going forward between 37c - 53c
If you look at sector pe for financial services they can range from regular pe of 15 to shiller pe of 21.5 based on a sample of 66 stocks
sorry thats all i can say - its only become worthy of looking at now they have taken over turners and the potential which can come from that in my opinion
Turners Name Lives On Following Takeover By Dorchester
3:11pm, 18 Dec 2014 | NAME
18 December 2014
Company Announcement
TURNERS NAME LIVES ON FOLLOWING TAKEOVER BY DORCHESTER
The Board of Dorchester Pacific Limited (NZX : DPC) today confirmed that, following its takeover of Turners Auctions, it will consolidate its interests into a single listed entity, but that this will carry the Turners name. The change will take effect from 1 February 2015.
“It doesn’t make sense to maintain two listed companies, so we had a decision to make,” said Dorchester CEO & Executive Director, Paul Byrnes.
“Although proud of the achievements of Dorchester and its very successful turn-around, we also recognise the inherent value and goodwill in the Turners name, which has a lot of history and affection attached to it.”
Mr Byrnes said the company had earlier undertaken focus group research which highlighted many positive values associated with the Turners brand, including words like trust, integrity, reputable, honest, well recognised, “Kiwiness”, championing the public, heritage and longevity.
“These values represent a positive brand platform on which to develop our group businesses,” he said.
Mr Byrnes reiterated that, as has been the case with other acquisitions such as EC Credit, and Oxford Finance, the Turners Auctions business will continue to operate independently , but share some ‘back office’ functions. The Dorchester brand will still remain an important banner for the group with Dorchester Finance continuing to grow in the motor vehicle and consumer lending market.
“We are excited about this next phase of our business growth and to welcome Turners Auctions and the great team of people attached to that business into our group,” Mr Byrnes said.
“As the new guardians of the Turners brand, we are very committed to making this successful and rewarding for all involved”.
ENDS
My dividend is in the bank.!
Article in yesterday's The Press headed "Turners gains from rebuild" stated just how well Turners are doing.
"Turners CEO Todd Hunter said the firm was conducting two multimillion dollar auctions this month for businesses which had gone into receivership or liquidation.Both were construction companies- one based in Auckland and one in Christchurch."
"The company was experiencing record highs of bidding on truck and machinery auctions,and the company had seen sales double over the past three years."
"Demand is high across the country,with imports of new and used trucks increasing by 36% in 2014 compared to 2013."
So it is not only car sales that Turners are doing well with.
Those posters who thought DPC's takeover of TUA was well timed, were right.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/bus...s-from-rebuild
Good that they are expanding into other areas, Do they do fleet leasing?
A cent here and there is becoming a cheap sweetie
Not meaning to pick nits but they did get to 37 cents 2 years ago...
Two years ago (31-03-2013) there were 358.740m DPC shares on issue. Today there are 631.496m DPC shares on issue. Dorchester has changed so much in that time, with acquisitions and divestments, it is almost a completely different business (edit: to reflect this they are going to change their name).
To suggest that a 37c support level, based on some share price two years ago will have any effect on Dorchester today is ludicrous IMO. Dorchester may indeed get to 37c. But if it does it will have nothing to do with anything that happened two years ago when Dorchester was quite a different thing.
SNOOPY
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11396066
Demand for vehicles has surged, underpinned by a buoyant local economy, record migration and a higher local currency, which reduces the cost of imports. The used car market is also benefiting as lower prices flow through and the country's ageing fleet comes up for replacement.
I hope to see a more stable future for DPC/Turners. There has been a lot of change over the last two years. Time to bed things down and think about a succession plan with the ultimate departure of Paul Byrnes. If DPC can keep doing what they are doing well then I see a bright future.
I hope you meant to say that you are an interested party and so have skin in the game going forwards.Quote:
Disc. Hold so I'm biased
If you are really biased, that means you will have altered your opinion of what is the right way to go forwards, solely because you are now an owner of the shares. Being a shareholder does not require you to be a cheerleader for the company at the same time.
SNOOPY
is there another acquistion on the card
Does anyone know the approximate share price of DPC in order to be part of NZX50?
At 36c, DPC has a market capitalisation of $227.4m. But it has several substantial shareholders.
1/ Harrigans Trustees on 7.009% (consideration for purchase of EC control business)
2/ Bartel Holdings on around 7% (associated with Turners Auctions takeover)
3/ The Business Bakery, around 13%
4/ Hugh Green Investments, around 22%
I am not sure if all or any of these would be considered as reducing the free float of shares available. Assuming none of them do, then comparing the capitalisation of companies towards the bottom of the NZX50.
STU at $2.84, worth $251.2m
PEB at $0.77, worth $245.3m
SKL at $1.39, worth $268.0m
NZO at $0.64, worth $269.5m
means DPC is not quite there yet.
Based on the current number of shares on issue (631.496m), the DPC share price would need to rise to 40c for the market capitalisation to crack $250m.
SNOOPY
Good times :)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-for-used-cars
All quiet on the TNR front. Would be nice to see a profit upgrade in the next week or two.
I would have thought we would have seen a trading update late last month.
We may have to wait until mid/end May for the full year result.
I am expecting a very good result.
Paul Byrnes doesn't strike me as the type who nods off after lunch.!!
Don't fry your brain with all that, just take note of the latest forecast for FY 2015 from DPC/TNR [from the H1 interim report notice to NZX, 22 December 2014]:
Group trading net profit before tax for the financial year to 31 March 2015 is now forecast to be around $14 million, up on the previous guidance of $11.5 million, as a result of the inclusion of 4 months of full profit contribution from Turners Group NZ Limited. In addition there will be abnormal profits of between $3.5 million and $4 million, the net result of bringing Dorchester’s earlier 19.85% holding in Turners into line with market value (being the $3.00 per share takeover offer price) and the write-off of all acquisition and transaction costs related to the Turners takeover.
On 2 December 2014 DPC/TNR had advised NZX that:
With the full ownership and control of Turners achieved, it is now expectedthat profit before tax [for FY 2016] will be around $23 million. Current tax losses should besufficient to cover forecast profits through to 31 March 2016. The group isexpected to be in a tax paying position from the financial year commencing 1April 2016.
To convert profit forecast numbers to a per share basis, the number of shares on issue at the moment is 630,765,588.
Since the takeover we know Turners Auctions are trading well.Turners Auctions opened up a lot of sale channels for TNR[DPC] products and services such as insurance and finance.
The synergies should be cutting overhead and increasing margin.The merger means one lot of director's fees and costs are saved as are the listing fees etc.
TNR have brought back a lot of the small shareholdings which will also save costs.
Now to get back to your overnight values, we will have to wait until the result is in,before we have the figures to make an informed judgement.
I should have added that the forecast profits for FYs 2015 and 2016 are before tax (DPC/TNR expects to resume paying tax in FY 2017).
So, the $23M pre-tax forecast for FY 2016 amounts to 3.65 cents per share (spread over the number of shares issued as of today). Were tax to have been deducted at the company rate of 28%, NPAT would be 2.63 cents per share.
I understand the current dividend policy is to pay about 40% of profits as dividends. In the instances of the 2 dividends paid since DPC got back on its feet, it seems that the 40% was applied to NPBT stripped of abnormals. Consistent with that, for FY 2016 as forecast with $23M NPBT, the FY dividend(s) would be 3.65 x 0.4 = 1.5 cents per share allowing that the $23M contained no significant abnormals and that the number of qualifying shares is static. {{I think, happy to be corrected.}}
On the acquisition trail again... wonder what the metrics are for this purchase...
https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/Dire...spx?id=3846937
Seems like profit is not material.
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/busines...assets-048.mp3
But they want to grow in sure to around $5m EBIT in next couple of years
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/turners...cale-bd-171225
Finished on a 52wk low mind you most of the market looks a bit sick at the moment.
Get a decent broker then:) Perhaps ANZ failed to account for the change of name?
http://stocknessmonster.com/stock-chart?S=TNR&E=NZSE
report this week?
I thought there would have been a big jump with the SP with an announcement like that?
Where's Percy? We need a rave anda bit of detail.
Must be the doom & gloom weather :/
Post the acquisition of Turners they were saying 2016 profit of 23m - now 20m - because of timing of one offs? Might be the issue. Still think it is a great result.
A very pleasing result,very much in line with previous updates.ie NPBT of $14mil while the abnormals were$1mil higher at $5mil.
The balance sheet is strong with equity ratio at 36.78%,and operating cash flow was an excellent $10.485mil.
Very rough figures sp at 31cents,eps 3.28 gives a PE of 9.45 or using diluted eps of 3,01 the PE 10.3.
Still growing but at a more modest rate..
Please note I have altered this post, as I had made a number of errors.Basically taking the one offs as continuing earnings,which unfortunately they are not..
Yesterday I misread the TNR result.I got mixed up with taking the abnormals as normal.
The result offcourse did not include a full year of the "Turners auctions".
I also failed to factor in the fact TNRs are not paying full tax.
The 2016 projection was downgraded from $23mil to $20mil.
The result was not what I expected, therefore I have sold my holding.
To achieve the $23mil TNR will have to make an acquisition.Depending on what the acquisition is,the terms of the acquisition,and whether I think it is good or not,will guide me as to whether I will buy in again.
I thought it was only right that I posted my misgivings,and the fact I had sold my holding,as I had been very positive about the company's prospects,and was concerned that I had steered other sharetraders to "look twice" at the company.
Hopefully my misgivings are groundless,and I will have to buy back in a lot higher prices.!!!
im out as well, normally I trade so would have sold at 36 but thought I would go for a long termer for once lol ( should stick to my strategy ) but like article below says good times may be over
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11459434
Divy was a bit less than I was expecting. Forgot about the lack of imputation credits. Bugger. But, if someone plonks some money in your bank, one shouldn't really complain about paying tax on it.
Granted and the forecast is now $20m. However if TNR did pay tax... they would be able to pass this on to us with Imputation credits. So either way it makes no difference does it?
The reason I am highlighting this now is the prior post and my own experience of paying RWT off my dividend to the IRD. Having Imputation credits nullifies this payment thus for the shareholder it is a moot point if the company posts their profits as pre-tax (gross)
At these prices starting to get back on the accumulate radar again :)
Agree blackcap.
Also latest disclosure showed director Matthew Harrison buying over 4 million shares off Geoff Ross for $1.2 million.( 27c per share.) A fairly convincing vote of confidence I would have thought.
(One could speculate that Geoff Ross needs the money for another MOA cash issue. )
Disc. Hold quite a few and bought more recently at 27c
They must be doing alright on the car sales.
Mate just sold a car via auction, was offered $2000 by them cash and they would then sell - their estimated auction price was $2500 -$3500.
He put up for auction, go rung up before hand as someone had offered $2500 (the reserve) - went to auction - sold for $4200 and so got about $3800 after commission and auction fee - not sure why they have both!
So if he just took the cash they would up 2 grand instead of $400
Interesting developments...
Turners Limited (NZX : TNR) today announced it has entered into an
unconditional agreement to purchase Christchurch based Southern Finance
Limited (incorporating South Island Vehicle Finance and K Finance).
Southern Finance is an established finance company in the used vehicle
finance market and has been active in the South Island for close to 20 years
with extensive client and referrer networks in Christchurch and throughout
the South Island. Loans are originated through motor vehicle dealers,
finance brokers, strategic partnerships and direct lending.
"We expect the acquired business to immediately contribute around $750,000
p.a. earnings before interest and tax with this increasing to $1 million
after the first year. Additional synergies will arise in areas such as
insurance, IT
and compliance costs although we have not factored these in to our forecast
returns".
The purchase price is $5.0 million for the net assets of approximately $3.3
million and goodwill of $1.7 million. The consideration will be paid in
cash on the settlement date, 31 July 2015, and will be funded from bank
borrowings.
https://www.nzx.com/companies/TNR/announcements/267673
Turners acquires another small business on a forward looking P/E of 5. Seems strange that this wasn't considered a price sensitive announcement?
[QUOTE
.....Seems strange that this wasn't considered a price sensitive announcement?[/QUOTE]
Typical TNR low key approach.
Another good purchase.
One day the market will wake up to the consistent positive management of this company. Until then the only thing required is patience.
Disc. Hold quite a few so I could be biased
Although not a big acquisition it gives TNR a beach head to build on in the South Island.
A positive step.
How things have turned. Noodles wrote the above in November 2014. The shares went on to peak at 35c, but now they are back to 25.5c, just above the 25c issue price. No doubt noodles sold out on the high at a profit and reinvested the proceeds earning 2% in his bank account. But maybe not. If we don't hear from him in the next few days we can safely assume he is still hunkered down in the Turner's share bunker, cursing his inaction.
Next year in September 2016 I have a chance to convert by bonds in to shares at a 5% discount to market price. So at 25.5c, my Turners bonds will convert to shares at only 24.2c. Much better than the 25c noodles got his shares at. Of course in the interim my 9% bonds have given me a much better cash return as well. I am so much better off taking all but a token of my TUA converted holding as TNR bonds! Of course markets change and so by September 2016 I may be the one who looks a bit foolish.
SNOOPY
Gotta love that bit at the end of the announcement :) Time for you to get back in Percy?
TNR
10/09/2015 13:51
ASSET
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 1351 HRS Turners Limited
ASSET: TNR: Turners buys property for truck and machinery growth
10 September 2015
Company Announcement
TURNERS BUYS FURTHER PROPERTY FOR TRUCK AND MACHINERY GROWTH
Turners Limited (NZX : TNR) today announced its subsidiary Turners Group NZ
(formerly Turners Auctions) has purchased a property in Hillsborough,
Christchurch for $2.5 million to accommodate its growing truck and machinery
business.
The move reflects the strategy of separating trucks and machinery premises
from the traditional car business.
In the last 12 months, two new premises, a $4 million property purchased in
Roscommon Road, Auckland and a leased site in Christchurch have been
developed as part of the focus on trucks and machinery. However, with sales
tracking at over 40% up on the same period last year, both sites are already
constantly full.
Turners Limited CEO and Executive Director, Paul Byrnes commented:
"The significantly higher used trucks and heavy machinery sales activity has
more than justified the property investments; but the whole Turners Group
NZ business is performing particularly well with profit for this financial
year up over 30% on the corresponding pre-acquisition period".
Turners Limited Annual Meeting will be held at the Aotea Centre, Auckland on
Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 11.00 am.
ENDS
For further information please contact:
Paul Byrnes
CEO/Deputy Chairman
Turners Limited
DDI: (09) 308 4988
Mobile: 021 644 441
Grant Baker
Chairman
Turners Limited
Mobile: 021 729 800
End CA:00269934 For:TNR Type:ASSET Time:2015-09-10 13:51:18
Looks like Dorchester's actual three way funding mechanism for acquiring TUA was a little different to what management expected. From p4 of the interim HY2015 report.
Share issue at $0.25: 125.8m at 25c = $31.4m (4.8% higher than projected)
Bonds: $23.2m@ $1.00 =$23.2m (28.9% higher than projected)
New Bank Debt: $10.0m (45% lower than projected)
The closing comment in the interim report says:
"The final consideration mix and successful capital raise to fund the Turners acquisition has resulted in a balance sheet with headroom for further merger and acquisition activity." ($29.55m of borrowing headroom by my calculation)
The subsequent acquisition of "Greenwich Life" announced on 10-04-2015, and "Southern Finance" on 30-07-2015 certainly made sure the 'new' TNR made those acquisitive ambitions a reality!
I should note that although this information is in the HY2015 interim report with accounts dated 30th September 2014, the new shares, bonds and new debt were allotted after balance date. So the interim account figures do not represent the post Turners Auctions acquisition position.
TNR has transformed remarkably since HY2015 (30-10-2014) balance date. So the following figures from HY2015 are rather historical.Quote:
Unfortunately the detail in the HY2015 press release, outlining the match or mismatch of maturing customer loans to the underlying bank debt was non existent. So until more detail is published in the half yearly annual report, this is as far as my analysis can go.
Finance Segment Assets: $94,909m
Finance Segment Liabilities: $72,763m
Nevertheless it is comforting to know that the finance sector assets were on the books at a 30% premium to the finance sector liabilities at the time.
SNOOPY
We did and do expect that but since then the share price has come down a fair way. I bought some yesterday at 25.5, seems less risky than at 35 cents a while back anyway.
Updating for the FY2015 financial year (ended 31-03-2015)
The underlying interest expense is shown under note 7 (AR2015) to be $7.381m.
The underlying EBIT is a bit more complicated. There is a $7.058m gain recorded because of the write up in the value of the then Dorchester's existing stake in TUA to 'market bid value' level. But the market bid was made my Dorchester. So Dorchester have in effect bid up the value of their pre-owned TUA shares to a market level that they themselves have chosen. $7.058m is a one off self controlled capital gain that is not repeatable. IMO this should not be included in any underlying EBIT to Interest Expense ratio.
(EBT +Interest Expense)/(Interest Expense) = [($18.264m-$7.058m)+$7.381m]/$7.381m = 2.52 > 1.2
=> Pass Test
SNOOPY
The gearing ratio in based on the underlying debt of the company, calculated by stripping out the already contracted future liabilities (from AR2015 Balance Sheet p32) eventually payable to insurance policy holders on the balance sheet. I have additionally removed the deferred revenue ($7.476m) from these underlying liabilities
$207.970m -($9.260m + $16.378m + $7.476m) = $174.850m
Likewise on the asset side of the balance sheet we have to strip the third party 'finance receivables' from the total company assets. From the Balance Sheet.
$328.972m - $142.827mm = $186.145m
Gearing Ratio = Underlying Liabilities/Underlying Assets = $174.850m/$186.145m = 94% > 90%
=> Fail Test
The big spending Turner's acquisition of Oxford Finance (01-04-2014) and the old 'Turners Auctions' (28-10-2014) have greatly increased the gearing ratio of the formerly conservatively geared company!
I am applying a 'banking covenant' to a non-bank. While not a legal requirement for TNR, this is to enable a comparison with other listed entities in the finance sector (real banks like Heartland for instance ;-) ), so please bear with me. The data below may be found in the 'Consolidated Statement of Financial Position' (AR2015, p32).
We are looking here for a certain equity holding to balance a possible temporary mismatch of cashflows. The company needs basic equity capital and we are looking for disclosed reserves defined as:
Tier 1 capital > 20% of the loan book.
(Dorchester has only Tier 1 capital for these calculation purposes.)
Tier 1 Capital = (Shareholder Equity) - (Intangibles) - (Deferred tax)
= $121.002m - $103.595m - $8.532m
= $8.875m
The money to be eventually repaid to the company (assets of the company) can be found as assets on the balance sheet. This is the sum total of:
1/ 'Financial Assets at fair value through profit or loss': $17.350m
2/ 'Finance Receivables': $142.827m
3/ 'Receivables and deferred expenses': $5.946m
4/ 'Reverse annuity mortgages': $13.253m
For the FY15 year these come to $179.376m
$8.875m / $179.376m = 4.9% < 20%
=> Fail test
Care needs to be taken in interpreting a result like this. A big increase in Intangible Assets over the year have done the damage to this statistic.
From note 22 in the annual report, $45.6m of intangibles was brought onto the books with the acquisition of TUA. $30.454m was brought onto the books with the acquisition of Oxford Finance. These companies were bought outright to become profitable acquisitions. A good margin over asset backing was paid because these assets were highly profitable, demanding any buyer to pay a premium. The downside is that should either of these assets suddenly become less profitable than expected an urgent capital raising from TNR shareholders could be required!
SNOOPY
Just done two quick and dirty evaluations of TNR:
The pessimistic one - little growth from FY17 on:
Value at 10-Sep-15: $0.277
Value at 31-Mar-16: $0.288
The not so pessimistic one - some growth for a few years:
Value at 10-Sep-15: $0.307
Value at 31-Mar-16: $0.322
Take your pick.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Whilst I disagree with the pass mark being set at greater than 20%
I do agree that less than 5% Tier 1 is a fail in most peoples books.
But what about those Bond's you hold?
Does TNR have the right to convert them to equity (i.e. shares) at some point?
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
The discretion on the bonds is all mine. I have the option to convert my bonds to TNR shares in September 2016. The 5% discount on the market head share price at the time is an incentive for me to do so. But I can equally well ask for my cash back. (TNR cannot force me to convert my bonds to shares). Right now, I do not know which way I will go.
SNOOPY
So TNR would like to own upto 20% of MTF, which would require an MTF vote on whether to permit that.
The offer of $1.15 a share is daylight robbery - if MTF was listed I would expect it to trade at a significantly higher price.
<update>
Forget the daylight robbery bit - I missed a zero out (10x off :mad ;:) of a reasonably important number.
</update>
[ It seems that the court case involving MTF is essentially resolved - or am I miss reading that?
<update>
Apparently I am misreading that :(
</update> ]
But buying the 19% they do not own will require about $5M of real money.
It also makes me wonder whether TNR are setting themselves up for a potential fall in that I think that they are stretching themselves a bit and a knock would leave them with a sudden need for equity, especially given that Snoopy (& the other holders) can demand that he gets cash for his bonds next year.
DYOR and show me that I am meowing up the wrong tree.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger