http://www.nbr.co.nz/stayconnected?return=132186
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For a very very smart individual (if you read and believe all that has been pumped out by the company and by himself), Derek is a plenty smart cookie.
What's the point then of having a shareholder like Seadragon in the company?
When you read the NBR's article, it becomes clear why Derek chose to use the backdoor listing route.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Moosie, I am taking the time to guide you through what and why Snakk is where it is at, hoping that you will learn from my own experiences (bad) from the past.
"When you read the NBR's article, it becomes clear why Derek chose to use the backdoor listing route"
I think you've wetted our appetite Balance on this most educational thread. Alas...I can not see the NBR article either. Is it feasible to paste it into this forum ?
Moosie....Balance has done a great job of alerting novices (like me) to the dangers of backdoor listings, even if SNK is not technically one. "We" need a lot more caution when jumping into stocks such as these. The link to the research on these was interesting as well. Having said that, yes, there will be successes. But a lot more care is needed on the investors part.
So thanks for that Balance.
Cheers,
RTM
PS....Did manage to stop myself buying any of these....so far.
Bit of history from 2011...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10700996
I hope we are not in for another week of how,when where and why Snakk got where it is today.Over the years there have been good and bad compliance and back door listings but on this site only doom and gloom prevails.
Reading the NBR may be our only hope...
Im going to buy a big bag of salt so I can sprinkle a few grains over everything thats written here, there and everywhere.:)
Plenty of good articles in the NBR - some not so good ones as like all publications but a good sign they push the limits is that they get served by lawyers every so often.
How much have you done on Snakk so far? $220 for a year to NBR is cheap!
That scumbag, Mark Bryers of Blue Chip, got away for years from proper media scrutiny because he had an open cheque book to his lawyers to threaten, sue etc.
We know what Blue Chip got away with.
So - support the NBR.
After Moa and Ecoya, Milford will be selling the hell out of Snakk if they had any stock.
The Bakery boys sure baked a nice custard pie for Brian Gaynor to fall into?
Meanwhile, see the sellers have pulled out and waiting for the punters to pile up before they dump on them again?
Montana was not a backdoor listing - it was part of CIL and when all the other assets of CIL were sold off, CIL was renamed Montana.
https://www.nzx.com/files/assets/rev...dance_note.pdf
"Compliance listings are similar to reverse and backdoor listings, in
that the listing is usually completed without the need to complete
disclosure documents under the Securities Act."
To me Compliance listing is worse than backdoor listing - appearance of decency but same smelly unwashed undies.
maybe Balance re Montana. but I based my post on an article by Brian Gaynor in February 2008.he explained the sequence of events when they bought Montana etc.He said it was perhaps the most successful backdoor listing.May be a matter of interpretation.
Montana was not a backdoor listing. CIL sold of all of their investments other than Montana, then changed their name to Montana. GPG are doing exactly the same thing i.e. sell everything bar Coates, and then change the name from GPG to Coates. There is nothing inherently wrong with a backdoor listing. You just need to exercise a bit more caution. Like I have said before, Abano and Charlies were both successful backdoor listing. Compliance listing are just, well, just what they say they are, for compliance and quite benign.
On the ASX all new listings (IPOs, backdoor, compliance) are subject to the same disclosure requirements - mainly an ASIC approved Prospectus
Backdoor listings on the ASX have an added level of compliance in that the existing shareholders are required to approve the change of activities, which means there are additional expert reports and documentation required to support the shareholder vote.
I don't know why the NZX would be so lax.
Many tks Balance and others for a good discussion. I went back to Brian Gaynors article and he used the terms backdoor listing and reverse listing on the same company.Definitely a difference in my opinion.Good comment on ASX Steve.
Regards
Is that you Moosie....300,000 at .093c to buy. Good on you mate, thats what we like to see.
You have to laugh at the little games being played at the snake pit.
Someone sold the shares down to 9.1c and out pops a buyer at 9.5c with fresh air between him and 9.1c.
He gets taken out in plenty quick time.
Now what kind of idiot pays 9.5c when the trdaes are going through at 9.1c?
Do either of you guys know why your number of posts has not gone up for months despite all the action. Mine haven't either.That's the number under your join date etc.Just curious.It's one of those lazy days when the mind strays to other useless pastimes.
Funny how the rampers have gone all quiet on the slippery snakk(e) now that everyone is aware a few huge sellers are out there ready to pounce on any buyer brave (or dumb) to put up their hands for stock.
125 pages devoted to a stock where only a few make money at the expense of the punters.
History repeats itself, again and again and again.
Twitter has made its largest acquisition to date with the purchase of MoPub, a mobile advertising company. The deal will help Twitter to automate ad buying on its platform and broaden its partnership with traditional media companies, as it prepares to go public in the coming months.
MoPub allows agencies to buy ads across a large network of websites and helps advertisers target users more specifically and in real time by, for example, auctioning adverts during live events. The purchase of another advertising technology company that operates in the so-called programmatic buying sector follows AOL’s $405m Adapt.tv deal last month.
Its customers include blogging platform WordPress, games publisher ngmoco and TuneIn, a radio app.
“Mobile is obviously key to Twitter as a whole and to our advertising platform,” said Kevin Weil, Twitter’s vice-president for revenue products. By allowing advertisers to buy ads in real time, at the instant they are delivered to the app user, improves targeting and relevance for both brands and users, he said.
The deal is worth 16m shares in Twitter, according to one person familiar with the deal. That could value MoPub from anywhere between less than $300m to more than $400m, based on Twitter’s share price in the highly illiquid secondary market. It would make it Dick Costolo’s biggest deal as Twitter’s chief executive, ahead of a much anticipated public offering, perhaps as soon as early 2014.
Jim Payne, chief executive of MoPub, said the companies were a “natural match” because they were both focused on mobile and he hoped to grow the business using Twitter’s investment.
MoPub will continue to serve other sites, as well as Twitter, paving the way for an expansion of the messaging site’s business beyond its own site for the first time. The mobile advertising exchange had a revenue run rate of $100m in May, 11 times the level the same time the year before. It serves 2bn adverts a day.
Mr Payne and Nafis Jamal, two of the three founders of MoPub, were executives at AdMob, another mobile advertising company bought by Google for $750m four years ago. AdMob is now MoPub’s biggest competitor in the market for mobile advertising.
Research group EMarketer estimates that Twitter will make more than $300m from mobile advertising this year
So who dumped those 250,000 forcing the SP down to .085 ?
oh my, and the next buy is at 7 cents :s
Or some one dumping their holding regardless of price to shift the lot.
Moosie... I am back from Scandinavia...
Must admit I have forgotten the finer details of were we left off... re that wager re the Snakk share price.. can you help.
Cheers
All this talk of selling...I'd be more interested in finding out who is buying and why?
The Scandi blondes are gorgeous.... but Budapest is the go, I had a week in Hungary following the F1... never seen such gorgeous looking girls... suspect it has something to do with Genghis Khan and his Asiatic hordes raping and pillaging a long time ago.
Funny... my memory must be failing me... wer'nt you going to buy me a Cpl of bottles of Red if snakk went sub 9 c
chin chin
Moosie at the Museum.... seriously now.. are you guys doing a big 31 earthquake thing with lots of old red bricks ,,,
( sorry for deviating from the Snakk thread... but no harm...its the NZ markets equivalent of the Kursk )
[QUO22TE=moosie_900;426853]haha yes, I did all the research behind it :)[/QUOTE]Aha, now I kno vere to find you Moosee. Eye shall just look for a red breeck and there vill you be behind eet.
Noah Fence
ye ho yo, how low can you go. Whats happened here? You can't turn your back for a second. Am i the last shareholder on this thread with snakk shares? Is there anyone out there still got snakk shares? If not, do you think i should change my name to general Custer?...see weeds last stand. he he he.
Small world Moosie...in the last couple of months the Napier City Council, has purchased a large quantity of Old red bricks, from a Business I own that specialises in sourcing and supplying Old Red Bricks... I remember now.. they were going to the Museum.
Will be off line for a day or so..as will be in Hill country out of coverage.....Chin Chin
Moosie, you dont have to apologise-its all part of the forum which generates a lot of discussion and I think most people would agree that any actual share transactions are their sole responsibility and therefore they can be considered to have done their own research on the matter however deep that may be.
There is a way to go with this and you never know the big S might start picking them up again if they get too low. AAAAAAAAAARGH:):)
Hang in there, Derek knows what he is doing and he cannot control the share price - heck, he convinced punters to give him $6m at 12c, and now shares are under 9c but nobody wants to buy? Not his fault.
Meanwhile, he is working on a few more 'snakes' to bring to the market :
"Handley couldn’t imagine doing otherwise. “I’m based in New Zealand and I want to continue to create models that show you can start businesses here that go after key markets overseas from the outset, and grow them very quickly and make them successful. Part of the reason for Snakk being on the exchange is to try to create a new kind of listed company that is small cap, high growth, small revenue tech stock that isn’t looking to raise tens and tens of millions. It’s almost using the NZAX as a venture capital source for A round and B round type capital.
“My dream would be to start creating multiple Snakks and popping them on the exchange one after the other, enabling the general public to get a piece of the action. They might not all work, but I think every investor should be exposed to these types of exciting journeys.”"
A lot of exciting journeys ahead, folks.
Just don't get bitten!
IMO the problem with being in the business of selling new businesses is that you don't necessarily have the expertise, passion and long term commitment that is required to grow a start up business into a profitable enterprise.
It's relatively easy to get exponential growth off a low base, but you can't pay out growth and market share as a dividend. If the founding shareholders are getting paid directors fees and/or selling down in the original placements and market hype there must be every likelihood that the business never makes the profits required to justify the valuations proposed in the initial placements. 12c/share valued Snakk @ $32 million - for what exactly? The hope it would be the next XERO? I'll stick to buying lotto.
I doubt if Snakk would make the Moosie 50, but it made the Deloitte Fast 50 anyway.
http://www.fast50.co.nz/2013/regional-category-winners/
Quote:
2013 Regional Fast 50 Winners announced!
Check out the fastest growing business in your region (PDF)
AUCKLAND AND UPPER NORTH ISLAND
CATEGORY Fastest growing services business
COMPANY NAME Snakk Media
COMPANY DESCRIPTION Digital media company.
www.snakkmedia.com
Handley moving in the right circles.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11124265
Man am I glad I sold out, even though I made a loss... better than the long term pain...
It would be interesting if someone decided to hit that 7.9 before they had time to move it or delete the order. What would they do then?
It can be a dangerous game putting in bids and offers that you don't really want filled.
Unfortunately I have no SNK to be able to do the above ;)
moosie - we get it.
Someone is selling down for whatever reason and there's an overhang.
But you actually need to back off with comments like this;
You don't carry the stock, you're not an industry expert and you don't even understand their business model. Meanwhile this young company is posting good growth figures to the NZAX board and educating NZ shareholders about an emerging market sector.
I'd say that's pretty far from hated. So why don't you go do something else for a while?
i think the share price indicates what most think about the business model, in its start up phase anyway.
Perhaps there is room for some positivity at the low prices. The trading volume has been pretty large in the past couple of days. This means that there are people buying in. This also means that the large shareholders are selling up at increasingly faster rates - the shareholders which some people on this forum have some grudge against.
954,500 shares traded today. To put this in perspective: as of 23 Aug, Seadragon still had 15m shares; as of 23 July, HPF 18.7m shares; as of 14 June. Snakk Trustee had 16.8m shares. If today's volume can persist, these shareholders would be out in no time.
Based on the trading volume, I think there is still interest in this stock unlike the sentiment portrayed in the last 30 or so pages of this thread - it just depends on the price
Disc. Held and continue to hold Snakk. Prob should have sold out at the higher prices, but stuff it. Have followed this thread for awhile, but lately it has been rather unconstructive and full of hate.
PS. Before I get bashed by others for expressing a minority comment, I am not Sorenson, Bakery Boys or Seadragon or anyone of much relevance at all.
As I see written on many thread's Balance ... "People sell out for many reasons" and "don't position your holding based on what others are doing" etc etc....
To try and give it more perspective, it wasn't that long ago that Mr Darling from PEB unloaded 400k of his own stock. If anybody is an "insider" he is. It would be interesting to know how many "outsiders" then started unloading their stock? However, if anyone is a believer in PEB - David Darling is, so go figure.
Blah - sometimes it is good being in the minority so don't lose your belief in SNK just because some others are selling. I have also seen many who think they are in the "majority" selling at a loss - only to see gains not too long afterwards. The market has a habit of humbling those who think they are the best ... the rest of us keep learning and ultimately make gains because of it.
Disc. Holding SNK - and have no problem with putting it in the bottom drawer for now.
At last some positive posts.The only people against this Company seem to be posters on this site.
Good posts Dentie and Blah.Insiders do sell all the time and for different reasons.Take Xero,the only large sellers have been the insiders from the boss down,hardly deserting the sinking ship.
... and don't forget that without sellers, you don't have liquidity. I would hate to be in an illiquid stock.
It is the perception of value by "askers" and "bidders" that creates the market in the first place.
(Meant to also disclose in my last post that I hold a solid amount of PEB - won't be selling those either until I consider they reach an acceptable value commensurate with the risk etc)
Really?
Insiders in Xero only sold after the company delivered on expectations and kept shareholders and market informed of progress, against IPO prospectus.
And they sold at ever higher prices, leaving plenty for new shareholders.
Snakk is a backdoor listing - no forecast etc.
Here the insiders are lining up to get out asap and that's positive?
I personally have no issues or problems whatsoever with Sorenson, Sea Dragon etc selling out - good on them and all power to them.
I do have a problem with posters here trying to twist negatives into positives.
Prime example is their attempt to deny that this is a backdoor listing.
Oh well, the dung beetle thinks elephant manure is great stuff.
Can I state the obvious but is there a strategic link getting him onto SKY to use Snk on their mobile platform ?
There could be a conflict of interest with two listed companies and preferential advertising to go via Snk simply just a thought
Balance....I personally like all your posts.I know you have a great dislike for reverse listings or backdoor listings and compliance listings which Snakk is.Some are good and a lot ,depending on the founders are just rubbish.I concede this one has a taint factor that will take a while to let go. Only results will count in the end.
On a lighter note ,you may remember a few weeks back,I quoted Brian Gaynor saying in 2007 ,that Montana was the most successful backdoor or reverse listing that the investors had seen at that time.You and several others corrected that statement that Montana was not a reverse or backdoor listing but just a pure orthodox float.I went back to the Gaynor article to check where he had got his facts from.
It transpired that Allied Group I think it was listed in the seventies and soon changed it's name to Collingwood Holdings.In the 80's Peter Masfen backed his portfolio into Collingwood and it was renamed Corporate investments.CIL was therefore a backdoor or reverse listing.Subsequently CIL was renamed Montana.Therefore Montana the renamed CIL was a reverse or backdoor listing.
Similarly if Snakk were to takeover Microsoft,bless it's heart,and Snakk subsequently renamed itself Microsoft,then as before,Microsoft would be a compliance listing.
It answered my query on why Brian stated it but as you can see it's a bit convoluted .
Keep up the good posts
Kind regards...........
There's a universe of difference between CIL becoming Montana and Snakk as a backdoor list.
CIL was a backdoor list by Masfen during the roaring 1980s - one of the few investment companies to survive. After selling all of its*assets, except Montana, it became Montana.
Similar to GPG.
GPG will soon become Coats but there will be few who will think that Coats is a backdoor listing.
Snakk is a backdoor listing, pure and simple - a listing with every intention of avoiding the rigors of scrutiny via a prospectus.
Keeps coming back to the same question - why a backdoor listing?
Being an absolute "penny stock" ... I wonder why "traders" would bother with SNK. If you can't handle (y) losing dosh for a while - then why not stick with the RYM's, XRO's, FBU's etc? Afterall, they're the safe high cap stocks aren't they? No point belly aching about other shareholders selling out....they can only do it because others want to buy their stock.
Just found this .... http://www.wikihow.com/Pick-and-Trade-Penny-Stocks. Might help some like me who are still learning how to be good "investors".
I just hope the "traders" are around when I want to sell...
Were employees offered shares purchase plans? If so how much was it at?
Also when they say they want to be third after Google and Facebook, is that just a wild ambition or do they have a plan to get there? Or maybe they can claim that statement for a specific market, then if they do in fact have 20-25% market share in Australia then they may be already there. Which means limited growth from here?
They will certainly be huge if they do become third in the world, and share price now would be really cheap, but how do they get there, can they get there? Just some thoughts
Ok so that was my question. Isn't that what they stated in their annual report, that they want to be third after Facebook and google, but what does it mean? Anyone can say you want to be third, but third in aus, third in china etc, or the world? it means nothing unless we know clearly what they mean by that, and what counts is if they can get there and is going towards it.
Take Xero for example, their goal is 1m customers, and they have a projected customer breakdown by region, and they are doubling customer numbers every few months, they went from 100k customers to 200k customers in 13 months. Not commenting on if they will get there or if they are worth the price they are at now, but unless their numbers are fake, the numbers show they are growing and they could get to 1m customers, time will tell.
About employee share options, if I'm not mistaken, it was at 6.5 cents, so it would be pretty demorolising for them. We investors know the risk, and losing money is ok, but seeing your shares double or more in value, then drop back to close to what you bought it for, is a roller coaster. And some would want to sell if they can, to make some money while they can, don't know if there's rules to say they can't though. So yeah that's a bit of a worry and it's hard to change that unless share price go up, but some will get over it over time I guess.
"Take Xero for example, their goal is 1m customers, and they have a projected customer breakdown by region, and they are doubling customer numbers every few months, they went from 100k customers to 200k customers in 13 months. Not commenting on if they will get there or if they are worth the price they are at now, but unless their numbers are fake, the numbers show they are growing and they could get to 1m customers, time will tell."....
Everything is relative Apac ... have a look at this: http://www.xero.com/media/379150/xer...ual_report.pdf
Xero certainly appears to be growing everything on an exponential basis: customers, revenue, cash in the bank & its annual losses ....ummmmm something is not conducive with the other!! Thank goodness it has shareholders with deep pockets.
(Sorry - just replying - not trying to hijack the thread)
Had a quick look at the company's web-site.
"Our AGM and #SnakkLive videos and pictures from the evening will be online soon. Keep checking back or sign up to receive notification when they’re ready to view..!"
For a company which states that it is at the cutting edge of the brave world of communication, they have not got around to loading the videos etc of their AGM in 26 August onto their web-site!
3 weeks and counting.
Copper - do something useful and ask the company why they are so late posting the AGM videos etc on their website?
The website is where they should be looking after shareholders, not you tube and facebook.
Or do they actually care about shareholders?
Your one eyed view of the company (no, it was not Brian Gaynor at the AGM) is clouding your judgement.
BALANCE.....you are the one with all the moans and groans,send an email yourself to them.
On the contrary, Copper - it does not worry me as I am no shareholder and from what I know so far about this company, have no intention to be.
If you enjoy reading positives about the company only, there's plenty coming from the company so why do you bother reading here?
And yes, it was not Brian Gaynor to the rescue at the AGM.
:D
Cooper.. suggest you are out of your depth.
Do some research... or take up a harmless hobby.. like tea cosy collecting....will be cheaper then throwing good money at the likes of Snakk.
chin chin
Balance and Croesus et al ... with respect (that you may or may not deserve), you seem to enjoy taking pop shots at those of us who - it seems - may not have your share market abilities. Whether this is to further inflate your own ego's I'm not sure, but can I suggest you use your better abilities to assist people who are trying to learn. Why not put those long teeth (and dorsal fins) away and do some good instead?
Are you willing to share how many losses you have made in the share market when you were at the learner stage - and whether you are making any loss trades now that you are Guru's and senior members??
I want to learn more from the likes of Turmeric etc... who knows how to get in at the bottom and get out at the top.
Dentie... have lost count of my losses, in fact I still have them, I call them learning experience's... Its not realistic to trade and not make losses... no way am I a Guru...so you don't need to preface " with respect ".
.. now Balance he is a Guru !
Cheers,
Re the " pop shots" as you describe them... well it is a open forum, risking your hard earned or borrowed money.. is serious stuff if people want to post and some times make "dumb" comments... then they may get a curt response.... no hard feelings.. I try to leaven it with a sprinkle of humour.... chin chin
Dentie, Balance and Croesus et al, who may not hold any SNK shares (and for good reason) are only doing you newbies a big favour. They have seen it all before and are just warning you. It is your hard earned money that is being lost and they are just warning you to get out while you still can. So rather than attack them, be thankful to their voice of reason on issues like SNK.