ZEL - Z Energy.

[kiwico]

Im quite surprised how many Tesla's you see now when driving around, seems to be more and more, in Auckland area anyway.

Not just up there, there seem to be more on the roads in Wellington too. And Nissan Leafs are becoming quite common.

[tango]

The trend in increasing uptake of EVs and PHEVs was happening before Covid-19. The bigger issues for Z right now are New Zealand Refining and grounded planes.

Reopening the borders would change a lot but that seems a long way away.
If I have been reading it right the vaccines being tested lower the death toll but don't prevent Covid-19. I wonder if our government would reopen the borders with a vaccine that doesn't eradicate the virus? I feel most countries would return to productivity and free travel but our government might take a tougher approach and try to keep the virus out, just in case.
Thoughts?

[tango]

Things are tracking in the right direction.
Increases in fuel volumes in July compared with June 2020.
Still mostly below last year's volumes but this is good news

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ZEL/357775/328129.pdf

"Total Z group volume for July is down 15.9% versus 2019 PCP (previous corresponding period)
primarily due to less Jet and Marine volume.

Z group volume for July was up 8.9% against the
previous month due to increases in both Z and Caltex volume in both petrol and diesel.

Volume, excluding ‘Other’ and ‘Supply Industry & Export’ was up 0.9% PCP over the previous
year and up 5.7% versus the month of June 2020."

[peat]

The trend in increasing uptake of EVs and PHEVs was happening before Covid-19. The bigger issues for Z right now are New Zealand Refining and grounded planes.

Reopening the borders would change a lot but that seems a long way away.
If I have been reading it right the vaccines being tested lower the death toll but don't prevent Covid-19. I wonder if our government would reopen the borders with a vaccine that doesn't eradicate the virus? I feel most countries would return to productivity and free travel but our government might take a tougher approach and try to keep the virus out, just in case.
Thoughts?

Pretty sure our current government - and our most likely future one - would take a tough approach to letting the virus back in.


At the moment Z do seem to be very expensive relative to Gull at least. So if there volumes are recovering as well then they should be able to hold their margin. Cant help but think motorists notice though, and vote with their accelerator.

[tango]

Pretty sure our current government - and our most likely future one - would take a tough approach to letting the virus back in.
I agree but most countries are going to be happy to reduce the death toll rather than eliminate it.


At the moment Z do seem to be very expensive relative to Gull at least. So if there volumes are recovering as well then they should be able to hold their margin. Cant help but think motorists notice though, and vote with their accelerator.
That’s the sticker price. Most customers have flybuys and get 6c to 10c off per litre.

[Zaphod]

I agree but most countries are going to be happy to reduce the death toll rather than eliminate it.


That’s the sticker price. Most customers have flybuys and get 6c to 10c off per litre.

Yes, that's the issue. The system is no longer simple. You can't look at the price board and make a quick decision. On top of what you've mentioned, Z and Caltex also allow you to stack discounts can have a significant effect on the total price paid if you're willing to make multiple visits to the service station. Then you have the Countdown tie-in to the offer as well.

Mobil on the other hand, doesn't offer the stacking, but does offer a cents per litre discount as well as a reward discount once you've spent a certain amount on fuel.

[Beagle]

Yes, that's the issue. The system is no longer simple. You can't look at the price board and make a quick decision. On top of what you've mentioned, Z and Caltex also allow you to stack discounts can have a significant effect on the total price paid if you're willing to make multiple visits to the service station. Then you have the Countdown tie-in to the offer as well.

Mobil on the other hand, doesn't offer the stacking, but does offer a cents per litre discount as well as a reward discount once you've spent a certain amount on fuel.

Interestingly when the loyalty scheme changed In August 2019, Z for the first time allowed discount stacking. Since then the overall level of discounting for the company has really hurt its profit. I think quite a large percentage of people are into this stacking thing.

[tango]

Interestingly when the loyalty scheme changed In August 2019, Z for the first time allowed discount stacking. Since then the overall level of discounting for the company has really hurt its profit. I think quite a large percentage of people are into this stacking thing.

Yet today’s report claims that this is responsible for more business. Z seems happy with the increased sales

[tango]

Should have sold today. Watch Z tank tomorrow after the announcement today

[peat]

That’s the sticker price. Most customers have flybuys and get 6c to 10c off per litre.

Yes sure, but even taking that into consideration, last week Gull was a massive 25c per litre cheaper, comparing cheapest prices.
This week its only 10c difference but still...

Still as I said, if they selling it in good volume at higher prices then that's good for s/h's, but it will backfire when the govt needs a scapegoat.

[gains]

Should have sold today. Watch Z tank tomorrow after the announcement today

:( big * sign *

[Zaphod]

Yes sure, but even taking that into consideration, last week Gull was a massive 25c per litre cheaper, comparing cheapest prices.
This week its only 10c difference but still...

Still as I said, if they selling it in good volume at higher prices then that's good for s/h's, but it will backfire when the govt needs a scapegoat.

This week, Gull was .3 cpl more expensive than the next door Caltex station. 50m down the road the Mobile station was actually 6cpl cheaper (with the discount) than Gull. Prices are all over the place.

[Zaphod]

Interestingly when the loyalty scheme changed In August 2019, Z for the first time allowed discount stacking. Since then the overall level of discounting for the company has really hurt its profit. I think quite a large percentage of people are into this stacking thing.


People are exceptionally price conscious, especially when it comes to fuel, yet they waste more than that just driving around to find a good deal on fuel.

Personally I can't be bothered with the stacking system. To me my time is better spent either relaxing or conducting some revenue generating activity than making multiple visit to the service station to buy $40 of fuel at time that is required to stack.

I forgot to mention the share tank system in my last post too. I'm getting a headache already!

[stoploss]

This card affords some great discounts. Have to setup an account and pay monthly.
https://store.nzfarmsource.co.nz/partnerships/supercard

[kiwico]

People are exceptionally price conscious, especially when it comes to fuel, yet they waste more than that just driving around to find a good deal on fuel.

If you have Gaspy on your phone you no longer need to drive around to check fuel prices - the app is great and can show the cheapest fuel in any set area with the ability to add in any discount you might get at a certain brand of petrol station.

[arekaywhy]

forget the comparison to Gull, they need to be far cheaper to make sense as their fuel is poos and you don't get the mileage out of ethanol

[Zaphod]

If you have Gaspy on your phone you no longer need to drive around to check fuel prices - the app is great and can show the cheapest fuel in any set area with the ability to add in any discount you might get at a certain brand of petrol station.

Yes, that's a great crowdsourced app to mention along with it's website-based non-personally identifiable information gathering cousin Pricewatch. Still didn't stop my neighbour from driving 14km to save an additional 2cpl. 14km @ 0.73/km = $10.22 in running costs to save (45L*0.02cpl) = $0.90. I guess they'll never be an economics professor.

[Zaphod]

forget the comparison to Gull, they need to be far cheaper to make sense as their fuel is poos and you don't get the mileage out of ethanol

The most common response when I've mentioned that is: But it's cheaper and it's still 45L in my tank! Don't get me started.

[Clints]

People are exceptionally price conscious, especially when it comes to fuel, yet they waste more than that just driving around to find a good deal on fuel.

Personally I can't be bothered with the stacking system. To me my time is better spent either relaxing or conducting some revenue generating activity than making multiple visit to the service station to buy $40 of fuel at time that is required to stack.

I forgot to mention the share tank system in my last post too. I'm getting a headache already!

You can just put $40 in then hang up the nozzle, pick it up and put another $40 in and repeat this process. When filled go in and pay for all at once stacking each one.

I do this when it's 10c per litre - doesn't take long and you have $1-$2 savings.

[tango]

You can just put $40 in then hang up the nozzle, pick it up and put another $40 in and repeat this process. When filled go in and pay for all at once stacking each one.

I do this when it's 10c per litre - doesn't take long and you have $1-$2 savings.

I had no idea you could do that!
I go to Z because it's the closest station and I usually time it for Wednesday or Thursday when they have their 10 cent a litre savings :D

[Zaphod]

Thanks Clints. I tried that when the stacking system first started, and was summarily told off. I've also tried filling the car, then continuing to fill the jerry can for the mower (before they dropped the minimum purchase to attain a discount) which again resulted in being told off. Now I always fill up late at night when the staff are all inside and don't appear to really care what happens.

[tango]

Thanks Clints. I tried that when the stacking system first started, and was summarily told off. I've also tried filling the car, then continuing to fill the jerry can for the mower (before they dropped the minimum purchase to attain a discount) which again resulted in being told off. Now I always fill up late at night when the staff are all inside and don't appear to really care what happens.

Zaphod sneaks in under the cover of darkness wearing a balaclava to siphon off the fuel...

[Zaphod]

Zaphod sneaks in under the cover of darkness wearing a balaclava to siphon off the fuel...

Due to COVID-19 I always wear a mask along with my flowing black cape. Syphoning from the rich, to replenish the poor!

[Cyclical]

Yes, that's a great crowdsourced app to mention along with it's website-based non-personally identifiable information gathering cousin Pricewatch. Still didn't stop my neighbour from driving 14km to save an additional 2cpl. 14km @ 0.73/km = $10.22 in running costs to save (45L*0.02cpl) = $0.90. I guess they'll never be an economics professor.
Yes, it's always very amusing what people will do in an attempt to save a buck, but 73c per km is pretty extreme...

[Cyclical]

forget the comparison to Gull, they need to be far cheaper to make sense as their fuel is poos and you don't get the mileage out of ethanol


The most common response when I've mentioned that is: But it's cheaper and it's still 45L in my tank! Don't get me started.

But is their 91, which doesn't contain ethanol, any more poo than the next?

[Zaphod]

But is their 91, which doesn't contain ethanol, any more poo than the next?

AFAIK 91 contains no ethanol. It's the other grades that are the issue.

[Zaphod]

Yes, it's always very amusing what people will do in an attempt to save a buck, but 73c per km is pretty extreme...

$0.73 is the standard rate used by IRD, which includes all costs including depreciation, maintenance. Given they're driving that distance to save a small fuel expense, the calculation seem appropriate.

[Zaphod]

Interestingly when the loyalty scheme changed In August 2019, Z for the first time allowed discount stacking. Since then the overall level of discounting for the company has really hurt its profit. I think quite a large percentage of people are into this stacking thing.

Share-tank and Stacking must be hurting them, but I do wonder if removing this ability or changing the value proposition for the consumer will probably just result in a backlash.

[Getty]

AFAIK 91 contains no ethanol. It's the other grades that are the issue.

I only ever bought 91 at Gull, and there seemed to be a noticeable reduction in how far a tank lasted, compared to other brands.

[Zaphod]

I only ever bought 91 at Gull, and there seemed to be a noticeable reduction in how far a tank lasted, compared to other brands.

Just checked their website: "Gull Regular 91 Octane petrol contains no ethanol and is less than 10 parts per million of sulphur."

It's unlikely that any additives are causing a decrease in economy. Interesting.... I'll ask some others about their experience.

[Getty]

I have not bought petrol there for over 2 years because of consumption , its possible they had a different brew then.

[peat]

I only ever bought 91 at Gull, and there seemed to be a noticeable reduction in how far a tank lasted, compared to other brands.

needs more science
I would call out anyones professed ability to judge 'how far a tank goes'. Even if you make all the notes about times and distance etc the variation in the driving situation will change things to an extent.

With Z pulling its concierge service we are seeing the business response to consumers being all about price.

[Getty]

I agree with you, and no measuring was applied km/l etc, but after about 4 full ups, not top ups, I actually climbed under my car to check if there were leaks in the tank or fuel line.
Because of the flap type filler, I knew it wasnt being siphoned.

[arekaywhy]

I only ever bought 91 at Gull, and there seemed to be a noticeable reduction in how far a tank lasted, compared to other brands.

Noticed the same at pak and slave, never went back once I found out that they get fuel "seconds"

[Getty]

thankyou arekay, I'm wondering if it was because of Gulls distribution system whether the fuel was losing its octane rating, by being stored for longer, maybe the Aussies were giving us an underarm brew.

[Getty]

For what its worth, I was the one who did the tank filling, so I knew I was consistently filling the tank to the brim each time.

[Ahgong]

thankyou arekay, I'm wondering if it was because of Gulls distribution system whether the fuel was losing its octane rating, by being stored for longer, maybe the Aussies were giving us an underarm brew.

There is a simple measure of the fuel "content" and that is its density. Unfortunately, we do not have that when we fuel up. Fuel at the forecourt is sold by volume. But for marine bunkers, it is sold by weight. (Remember that if you pump petrol when it is cold, you get better value but the difference is minor).

I worked for an oil company years ago and had access to complete fuel specifications of NZ refinery output and was able to roughly confirm fuel density and mileage. Other factors include the percentage of aromatics and different fractions to make the octane rating. The refinery can blend fuel to meet minimum specs. Any extra quality you get is a so-called quality giveaway. Sometimes the crude and other feedstock are so good that the refinery has to sell higher quality product as regular gasoline but this is rare and normally happens during transition from winter to summer grades and vice versa. Addition of ethanol reduces the fuel blend's density and hence its lower energy content. So there is little advantage in using an ethanol blend unless the price differential is large.

One thing that amuses me is that the average useage by Kiwis is about 1200 litres (from my old memory). Folks try hard to save a few cents from all the competing offers. I think 5 cents off is pretty good after all the Z flybuys, BP AA smart card and Mobil Smiles etc...Just remember that the basic 6 cents off is simply the new retail price. So the average punter can save about $60 per year by juggling when and where to fill and carry a few extra cards in the wallet.

A 1 cent increase in the share price of a portfolio of 10,000 shares is $100. Buying and selling right by DYOR is far more productive for the majority of forum members who must surely hold more than 10,000 shares of any stock. In fact, I would venture to guess that average must be around 100,000 shares in a mixed portfolio.

In the old days, a 1 cpl price movement in fuel pioces make it to the news headline in print, TV and newspapers and folks queue up to save a cent before midnight!

Don't waste time on the small stuff!

[Clints]

I fill up at Caltex and used to do $40 and then go pay, come out and do another $40. It was the staff at Caltex that told me to just hang the pump up and then add the 2nd and 3rd $40

[Rep]

There is a simple measure of the fuel "content" and that is its density. Unfortunately, we do not have that when we fuel up. Fuel at the forecourt is sold by volume. But for marine bunkers, it is sold by weight. (Remember that if you pump petrol when it is cold, you get better value but the difference is minor).

I worked for an oil company years ago and had access to complete fuel specifications of NZ refinery output and was able to roughly confirm fuel density and mileage. Other factors include the percentage of aromatics and different fractions to make the octane rating. The refinery can blend fuel to meet minimum specs. Any extra quality you get is a so-called quality giveaway. Sometimes the crude and other feedstock are so good that the refinery has to sell higher quality product as regular gasoline but this is rare and normally happens during transition from winter to summer grades and vice versa. Addition of ethanol reduces the fuel blend's density and hence its lower energy content. So there is little advantage in using an ethanol blend unless the price differential is large.

One thing that amuses me is that the average useage by Kiwis is about 1200 litres (from my old memory). Folks try hard to save a few cents from all the competing offers. I think 5 cents off is pretty good after all the Z flybuys, BP AA smart card and Mobil Smiles etc...Just remember that the basic 6 cents off is simply the new retail price. So the average punter can save about $60 per year by juggling when and where to fill and carry a few extra cards in the wallet.

A 1 cent increase in the share price of a portfolio of 10,000 shares is $100. Buying and selling right by DYOR is far more productive for the majority of forum members who must surely hold more than 10,000 shares of any stock. In fact, I would venture to guess that average must be around 100,000 shares in a mixed portfolio.

In the old days, a 1 cpl price movement in fuel pioces make it to the news headline in print, TV and newspapers and folks queue up to save a cent before midnight!

Don't waste time on the small stuff!

In 2013, Gull lost a tax case in respect of their use of blending butane into petrol to reduce the excise. Butane had an excise duty of 10 cents a litre and petrol was at 48 cents a litre.
They were blending in relatively small amounts in but attempting to save the 38 cents per litre in excise duty which saved them $10m in excise.
Customs disagreed and the Supreme Court upheld the Customs interpretation which meant Gull incurred $13m in penalties and interest for a total bill of $23m.

source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9485961/Gull-loses-petrol-tax-fight

At the time, expert evidence was that the blended spirit wasn't chemically identical to petrol. Butane has an energy density of about 7,700 Wh per litre and petrol is about 9,500 Wh per litre (for reference ethanol is 6,666.6 Wh per litre) so it would not have the same 'energy density.' E10 roughly has 9,200 W-h litre so it can have a higher research octane number (RON) but have less density so relatively the savings from using it are offset by the increased fuel burn.

Disclaimer - I don't know if the blending is still occurring or indeed what brew is live. I'd also say that actually getting reliable and accurate relative fuel economy comparison out of one tank of gas isn't actually achievable unless you have an identical car following you with the other gas, you do a particular long distance run with little traffic and similar driving styles to judge it (or you have the sort of data acquisition and logging you have on a race car) or alternatively do the test under controlled conditions like on a track - believe me I've spent a bucket load of time looking at it in the context of endurance racing - even a variable like tyre pressure, rolling resistance of different tyres, ambient temperature can all play a part (actually it's mainly the driver that makes most of the difference).

In terms of savings from the fuel discount programmes, by judicious and disciplined use of stacking in the Flybuys Z and Caltex Pumped scheme (e.g. buying in $40 increments and stacking), I have achieved an average discount per litre of around 22-23 cents per litre off pump price for all the petrol we have purchased since last August that's equated to about $550 off the pump price. That is across two cars but it represents about 4 times the discount most folk could access but don't because they don't know how it works or don't perceive that there is value in doing so - also $550 after tax is about $820 income pre-tax which for a lot of folk isn't small stuff - even half of that for most folk (say one car) isn't small stuff.

[Getty]

I feel vindicated by your comments Rep.
The keyword in my comment was 'noticeable.'
I'm not a miser, and as peat correctly pointed out, no science/measuring was applied, so if the difference was only 4 or 5% , I wouldn't have even noticed it.
Variables such as driver, load, routes taken, traffic flows at the time of day were all consistent.
The energy density variance you have pointed out is @19% less.
Anecdotely, as soon as I changed to other brands, I no longer felt someone was pinching my petrol.
Friends at the time said they had similar experience.

[Cyclical]

I only ever bought 91 at Gull, and there seemed to be a noticeable reduction in how far a tank lasted, compared to other brands.


Just checked their website: "Gull Regular 91 Octane petrol contains no ethanol and is less than 10 parts per million of sulphur."

It's unlikely that any additives are causing a decrease in economy. Interesting.... I'll ask some others about their experience.

Yep, it all means jack until you do an apples for apples comparison under controlled conditions.

Personally I'm happy running their 98 in my phase 2 tuned turbo, driven none too softly on a none too flat long trip between New Plymouth and Hamilton while easily returning 7 litres per 100km. The ethanol probably helps keep temps down and it's been tuned specifically for that fuel. No stuffing around with discounts and stacking. I doubt that running bp98 is going give me much more power and anywhere near the better economy required to compensate for the significantly higher price.

In my V8 M3 however, I insisted on bp98, but for the average Joe in their daily, who cares.

[Cyclical]

In 2013, Gull lost a tax case in respect of their use of blending butane into petrol to reduce the excise. Butane had an excise duty of 10 cents a litre and petrol was at 48 cents a litre.
They were blending in relatively small amounts in but attempting to save the 38 cents per litre in excise duty which saved them $10m in excise.
Customs disagreed and the Supreme Court upheld the Customs interpretation which meant Gull incurred $13m in penalties and interest for a total bill of $23m.

source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9485961/Gull-loses-petrol-tax-fight

At the time, expert evidence was that the blended spirit wasn't chemically identical to petrol. Butane has an energy density of about 7,700 Wh per litre and petrol is about 9,500 Wh per litre (for reference ethanol is 6,666.6 Wh per litre) so it would not have the same 'energy density.' E10 roughly has 9,200 W-h litre so it can have a higher research octane number (RON) but have less density so relatively the savings from using it are offset by the increased fuel burn.

Disclaimer - I don't know if the blending is still occurring or indeed what brew is live. I'd also say that actually getting reliable and accurate relative fuel economy comparison out of one tank of gas isn't actually achievable unless you have an identical car following you with the other gas, you do a particular long distance run with little traffic and similar driving styles to judge it (or you have the sort of data acquisition and logging you have on a race car) or alternatively do the test under controlled conditions like on a track - believe me I've spent a bucket load of time looking at it in the context of endurance racing - even a variable like tyre pressure, rolling resistance of different tyres, ambient temperature can all play a part (actually it's mainly the driver that makes most of the difference).

In terms of savings from the fuel discount programmes, by judicious and disciplined use of stacking in the Flybuys Z and Caltex Pumped scheme (e.g. buying in $40 increments and stacking), I have achieved an average discount per litre of around 22-23 cents per litre off pump price for all the petrol we have purchased since last August that's equated to about $550 off the pump price. That is across two cars but it represents about 4 times the discount most folk could access but don't because they don't know how it works or don't perceive that there is value in doing so - also $550 after tax is about $820 income pre-tax which for a lot of folk isn't small stuff - even half of that for most folk (say one car) isn't small stuff.

Good interesting read that, Rep, thanks.

[Jay]

Still don't really understand how this stacking saves you money - max you can save on is 50 litres, you are going to fill up more often to stack and hope when you need a full 50 litres there is a bigger than usual discount so may save a bit. Have to use the discount within 2 months max - the end of the following month??.

No talking about about having another family member paying full price and giving you the discount.

[Getty]

Its a bit like MMP and Single Transferrable Voting systems, a lot of people think they know what it means, until you get them to explain it..

[Zaphod]

Still don't really understand how this stacking saves you money - max you can save on is 50 litres, you are going to fill up more often to stack and hope when you need a full 50 litres there is a bigger than usual discount so may save a bit. Have to use the discount within 2 months max - the end of the following month??.

No talking about about having another family member paying full price and giving you the discount.

Stop #1: Purchase $40 of fuel, let's say that's 25 litres, stack the $0.06
Stop #2: Purchase $40 of fuel, let's say that's 25 litres, stack another $0.06
Stop #3: Purchase 50L for a full tank, using the current discount of (say) $0.06 plus your two stacked fuel savings, which saves you 50Lx(3x$0.06)

versus

Stop #1: Purchase 50L saving $0.06 per litre.

[gains]

Still don't really understand how this stacking saves you money - max you can save on is 50 litres, you are going to fill up more often to stack and hope when you need a full 50 litres there is a bigger than usual discount so may save a bit. Have to use the discount within 2 months max - the end of the following month??.

No talking about about having another family member paying full price and giving you the discount.

Time for some maths?

Say you're buying 91 octane at $2.00 for your 40L fuel tank.

If you fill your car every time and get the maximum $0.10 discount, you save $4.00 per full tank. Total cost to fill tank $76.00
Every time you go to the pump, you save $4 and that's the best you can do.

With stacking, you can accumulate $0.20 of discount each time you fill up, just no saving that instance. Total cost to fill tank $80.00 but discounts accumulated are double.
Now if you stack for 3 fills you've got $0.60 discount and on your 4th fill, you redeem the accumulated discount and the discount from that day. Making a total of $0.70 discount on that tank. Saving you a grand total of $28 for that fill OR $7 per fill.

0 fill stacking then fill: Saving $4.00 per fill or 40L
1 fill stacking then fill: Saving $6.00 per fill or 40L
2 fill stacking then fill: Saving $6.67 per fill or 40L
3 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.00 per fill or 40L
4 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.20 per fill or 40L
5 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.33 per fill or 40L
6 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.43 per fill or 40L

This example was done with a 40L tank as it made the maths easier and you didn't have that awkward 10L's of stacking you wanted to take the jerry can and fill up to get the 3rd stack.. but it proves that stacking saves money, which is my point.

The optimal stacking point would also be 4 stacks and 5th fill.. the saving returns after that get less significant but we get the point.

[Clints]

Stop #1: Purchase $40 of fuel, let's say that's 25 litres, stack the $0.06
Stop #2: Purchase $40 of fuel, let's say that's 25 litres, stack another $0.06
Stop #3: Purchase 50L for a full tank, using the current discount of (say) $0.06 plus your two stacked fuel savings, which saves you 50Lx(3x$0.06)

versus

Stop #1: Purchase 50L saving $0.06 per litre.

If it's $0.06 and I need fuel I will only put $40 in and stack the $0.06
If it's $.10 I will full the tank which usually allows me to stack three lots of $40 so I get $0.3 on that one day.

I have ended up with over $2 in the past.

[Zaphod]

If it's $0.06 and I need fuel I will only put $40 in and stack the $0.06
If it's $.10 I will full the tank which usually allows me to stack three lots of $40 so I get $0.3 on that one day.

I have ended up with over $2 in the past.

Yes, that's a better way. Was trying to keep the math simple and less time consuming.

This is why discounting is probably hurting Z.

[Rep]

Time for some maths?

Say you're buying 91 octane at $2.00 for your 40L fuel tank.

If you fill your car every time and get the maximum $0.10 discount, you save $4.00 per full tank. Total cost to fill tank $76.00
Every time you go to the pump, you save $4 and that's the best you can do.

With stacking, you can accumulate $0.20 of discount each time you fill up, just no saving that instance. Total cost to fill tank $80.00 but discounts accumulated are double.
Now if you stack for 3 fills you've got $0.60 discount and on your 4th fill, you redeem the accumulated discount and the discount from that day. Making a total of $0.70 discount on that tank. Saving you a grand total of $28 for that fill OR $7 per fill.

0 fill stacking then fill: Saving $4.00 per fill or 40L
1 fill stacking then fill: Saving $6.00 per fill or 40L
2 fill stacking then fill: Saving $6.67 per fill or 40L
3 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.00 per fill or 40L
4 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.20 per fill or 40L
5 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.33 per fill or 40L
6 fill stacking then fill: Saving $7.43 per fill or 40L

This example was done with a 40L tank as it made the maths easier and you didn't have that awkward 10L's of stacking you wanted to take the jerry can and fill up to get the 3rd stack.. but it proves that stacking saves money, which is my point.

The optimal stacking point would also be 4 stacks and 5th fill.. the saving returns after that get less significant but we get the point.

Assume 91 is $2.00 a litre.
If you do the fill on a super pumped day and do $40 fill you give up $2 (10c on 20 litres) on the day to get up to $5 later. If you do 3 fills of $40 (which I can - incl 1 to 2 fills on wife's car) then you give up $6 on the day to get $15 later.
The discount expires at end of month following - so if you stack 19 fills over 2 months that's $1.90 plus 10c on day that's $2.00 so redeem for 50 litres.

Maths:
19 fills @ 20 litres for $40 = $760 at 380 litres
plus free fill for 50 litres (I have a 70 litre tank in SUV)
that equates to 430 litres
$760 divided 430 litres = $1.77 or 23c per litre.

Do that every 2 months it's $50 per month. Also helps I drive past a Z or Caltex every day.

[gains]

Assume 91 is $2.00 a litre.
If you do the fill on a super pumped day and do $40 fill you give up $2 (10c on 20 litres) on the day to get up to $5 later. If you do 3 fills of $40 (which I can - incl 1 to 2 fills on wife's car) then you give up $6 on the day to get $15 later.
The discount expires at end of month following - so if you stack 19 fills over 2 months that's $1.90 plus 10c on day that's $2.00 so redeem for 50 litres.

Maths:
19 fills @ 20 litres for $40 = $760 at 380 litres
plus free fill for 50 litres (I have a 70 litre tank in SUV)
that equates to 430 litres
$760 divided 430 litres = $1.77 or 23c per litre.

Do that every 2 months it's $50 per month. Also helps I drive past a Z or Caltex every day.

Stacking saves money :t_up:

Hmm, I'm curious now.. anyone tried making the fuel provider pay you to fill your tank? (accumulated more savings than the price of fuel)

[Beagle]

Assume 91 is $2.00 a litre.
If you do the fill on a super pumped day and do $40 fill you give up $2 (10c on 20 litres) on the day to get up to $5 later. If you do 3 fills of $40 (which I can - incl 1 to 2 fills on wife's car) then you give up $6 on the day to get $15 later.
The discount expires at end of month following - so if you stack 19 fills over 2 months that's $1.90 plus 10c on day that's $2.00 so redeem for 50 litres.

Maths:
19 fills @ 20 litres for $40 = $760 at 380 litres
plus free fill for 50 litres (I have a 70 litre tank in SUV)
that equates to 430 litres
$760 divided 430 litres = $1.77 or 23c per litre.

Do that every 2 months it's $50 per month. Also helps I drive past a Z or Caltex every day.

I think that's the key. If you even have to divert slightly to make multiple trips to the bowser, (with all the extra time that involves) you're on a hiding to nothing. I used to be into stacking. Then Covid came along and I touch a fuel bowser handle as infrequently as I can now days.

[Zaphod]

Stacking saves money :t_up:

Hmm, I'm curious now.. anyone tried making the fuel provider pay you to fill your tank? (accumulated more savings than the price of fuel)

When I stacked I was once able to get $1.10/L off. That was a busy month driving, and taking advantage of their retail offers. But TBH, it took more effort than I felt comfortable with, and the time spent stacking could have earnt me more with clients.

[Jay]

I think that's the key. If you even have to divert slightly to make multiple trips to the bowser, (with all the extra time that involves) you're on a hiding to nothing. I used to be into stacking. Then Covid came along and I touch a fuel bowser handle as infrequently as I can now days.

Thanks guys for making it clearer, the trick seems to be to do say $40 fills at the same time and get a bigger discount, otherwise doing say 3 fills (over time) 2 x $40 and stacking and the 3rd one 50 litres saves a few dollars only.
Also agree beagle, need not to be going out of your way to fill up and using more fuel generally - me only about 2-3 fills in a max 2 month period across 2 cars., certainly not 19!

[Cyclical]

Also helps I drive past a Z or Caltex every day.


I think that's the key. If you even have to divert slightly to make multiple trips to the bowser, (with all the extra time that involves) you're on a hiding to nothing. I used to be into stacking. Then Covid came along and I touch a fuel bowser handle as infrequently as I can now days.

That's it. I used to stack too, pre covid, but now I drive past the queue at the BP on a Wednesday and think, really? Each to their own I guess, but for me, life is too short to waste all that time to save a few cents/dollars.

[Rep]

That's it. I used to stack too, pre covid, but now I drive past the queue at the BP on a Wednesday and think, really? Each to their own I guess, but for me, life is too short to waste all that time to save a few cents/dollars.

I don't usually queue when I do the 10c stack fill and it takes a few minutes longer to do 2 x $40 fills than an $80 fill. If I save $100 every two months for a few minutes on each fill that adds up - it is a good proportion of the annual insurance on the car and I think of the few extra minutes a month as a fairly good hourly rate out of my post tax income (alternatively, it equates to paying for the fuel on the boat - which is ALWAYS a pleasure to take out rather than a task!).

[Getty]

I just heard on National Radio news that a co is planning to have 120.000 commercial Hydrogen trucks operating in NZ by 2026.

The First 20000 on the road by 2022.

TIL group has signed up for the first batch.

At the moment, no Hydrogen filling stations exist.

Is this a commercial opportunity for ZEL?

If they decide not to partake, or are beaten to the deal, it will be a serious dent to ZEL, because 120000 trucks use 10 times as much fuel as cars.

Obviously, once the filling stations are in place, more new cars will be hydrogen.

DR JPG

Free wallet biopsyies for new patient registrations this month.

[Getty]

I've since googled, and it appears to be the HIRINGA group, who are partnered with the Waitomo chain.
I thought the numbers mentioned on radio were high, works out to be 1 for each 42 people in NZ, so must include light vans.
I dont think I misheard.
2021 is the rollout date the Hiringa website gives.

[k14]

I've since googled, and it appears to be the HIRINGA group, who are partnered with the Waitomo chain.
I thought the numbers mentioned on radio were high, works out to be 1 for each 42 people in NZ, so must include light vans.
I dont think I misheard.
2021 is the rollout date the Hiringa website gives.
The press release I read said 2000 by 2026, which seems like a much more realistic number.

[Filthy]

120,000 seems awfully high. and 2026 seems optimistically fast.

[Getty]

Good one K14, where can I find the press release, as google didnt give me much info?
To filthy, 2026 was the date given by radio.

[Filthy]

The press release I read said 2000 by 2026, which seems like a much more realistic number.

that sounds much more like it. sounds fantastic as well. the sooner we get away from fossil fuels the better. why the gov hasn't provided consumers with incentives like Europe/China etc, I will never know. we should be setting ourselves up like Norway and be leading the way in new tech like electric & hydro vehicles. question is, where would that leave Z?

[freddagg]

It is amusing that you use Norway as an example since its ability to fund "feel good" projects is only possible because of its massive oil wealth


that sounds much more like it. sounds fantastic as well. the sooner we get away from fossil fuels the better. why the gov hasn't provided consumers with incentives like Europe/China etc, I will never know. we should be setting ourselves up like Norway and be leading the way in new tech like electric & hydro vehicles. question is, where would that leave Z?

[k14]

Good one K14, where can I find the press release, as google didnt give me much info?
To filthy, 2026 was the date given by radio.
Sorry its behind a paywall. Maybe search again tonight/tomorrow, might pop up on a mainstream site.

[Cyclical]

I just heard on National Radio news that a co is planning to have 120.000 commercial Hydrogen trucks operating in NZ by 2026.

The First 20000 on the road by 2022.

TIL group has signed up for the first batch.

There has been talk of the Taranaki getting some research/scheme going with hydrogen in an effort to help wean them off the hydrocarbon dependency. Couple this with the fact that TIL have a good many trucks that go between there and Auckland, back and forth every day ferrying hydrocarbons, it would probably be relatively "easy" to set up with hydrogen refilling stations at each end of those runs to power those trucks, so on the face of it, sounds like a plausible idea.


120,000 seems awfully high. and 2026 seems optimistically fast.

With numbers like that, it must be a COL/Twyford project.


It is amusing that you use Norway as an example since its ability to fund "feel good" projects is only possible because of its massive oil wealth

Not wrong there. Perhaps they'd like to share some of that wealth around so we can all go green?

[Filthy]

It is amusing that you use Norway as an example since its ability to fund "feel good" projects is only possible because of its massive oil wealth

very true! maybe battery day will save them having to continue to 'waste' all that money on incentives eh

[k14]

Sorry its behind a paywall. Maybe search again tonight/tomorrow, might pop up on a mainstream site.
@getty - Here is the article on stuff https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122636171/zeroemission-hydrogen-heavy-trucks-to-hit-kiwi-roads

[Getty]

Thanks K14, and before I logged on managed to see a transcript on RNZ website of what I thought I heard.
The newsreader who I think was Giles Beckford read out "20 hydrogen" trucks, and it sounded to me like 20 thousand trucks.

The real story which can be seen on their website, Is 1500 trucks by 2026, which is way more realistic.
One of the good things about ST, is that misinformation, accidental or otherwise, can be subject to scrutiny, and corrected.

1500 heavy trucks is still a significant loss to diesel vendors, and as I have already alluded, there will be a flow on of cars.

Dr JPG

Bring your car in for an AUTOpsy.

[Getty]

There are other stories on this subject, for those that are interested, on Business Desk, pay walled.

[Getty]

There is a certain irony that the introduction of Hydrogen Trucks is being driven out of Taranaki, NZ's petrochemical centre, and the early adopter is TIL group, who are major diesel and petrol transport distibutors in NZ.

A case of biting the hand that feeds you?

[Cyclical]

There is a certain irony that the introduction of Hydrogen Trucks is being driven out of Taranaki, NZ's petrochemical centre, and the early adopter is TIL group, who are major diesel and petrol transport distibutors in NZ.

A case of biting the hand that feeds you?

Yeah and nah. Not sure if you saw my post up the page a bit...


There has been talk of the Taranaki getting some research/scheme going with hydrogen in an effort to help wean them off the hydrocarbon dependency. Couple this with the fact that TIL have a good many trucks that go between there and Auckland, back and forth every day ferrying hydrocarbons, it would probably be relatively "easy" to set up with hydrogen refilling stations at each end of those runs to power those trucks, so on the face of it, sounds like a plausible idea.

The O&G companies here like to have fleets of electric and hybrid cars, you know, to offset all the other stuff lol.

[Lion_graf]

First-half FY21 guidance confirmed
Notwithstanding the impacts of the recent lockdown, Z confirms its guidance for 1HFY21 of
$85-100m RC EBITDAF. The cost out program remains on track, Nelson terminal has fully
transitioned to terminal gate pricing, and recent investments in CX are yielding incremental
volume increases.

[winner69]

First-half FY21 guidance confirmed
Notwithstanding the impacts of the recent lockdown, Z confirms its guidance for 1HFY21 of
$85-100m RC EBITDAF. The cost out program remains on track, Nelson terminal has fully
transitioned to terminal gate pricing, and recent investments in CX are yielding incremental
volume increases.

Suppose that's good news although some would have been expecting a better result than that seeing the economy isn't as bad as most were predicting.

[Lion_graf]

They're still showing a big reduction in Jet fuel and marine still as expected.. But seem to be on the right track cost cutting on staff and veering away from the service you would get at Z in the past. If only the SP held up the same way as Air NZ has done.

Still has a lot of support at $2.6ish. Can't seem to budge

[Teatree]

Morningstar have a val on this of 6.35 (early July) how is this so removed from what the market thinks

[dreamcatcher]

Maybe around 45% insto ownership here and increasing imo

Believe trans tasman flights will happen by Christmas should boost SP

[dreamcatcher]

"70,000 seats sold in six hours after rules relaxed"............ Positive news for Jet fuel I suppose

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/426065/air-nz-sells-70-000-seats-in-six-hours-after-rules-relaxed

[Beagle]

Z just sent me a mass e-mail for a survey/voucher scheme with an absolutely enormous amount of e-mail addresses and names attached to all and sundry via the "To" field instead of "BCC". Absolutely unacceptable and incredibly stupid. Already sending some complaints out. Moose.

[dreamcatcher]

Z just sent me a mass e-mail for a survey/voucher scheme with an absolutely enormous amount of e-mail addresses and names attached to all and sundry via the "To" field instead of "BCC". Absolutely unacceptable and incredibly stupid. Already sending some complaints out. Moose.

Certainly would piss people off on list.............

[Lion_graf]

"70,000 seats sold in six hours after rules relaxed"............ Positive news for Jet fuel I suppose

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/426065/air-nz-sells-70-000-seats-in-six-hours-after-rules-relaxed

I thought we wouldve seen a rise today. Instead it's the opposite. Less volume and looks to continue down 😔

[winner69]

Those cheap shares of $2.80 odd at the SPP not looking too cheap these days.

Also feel sorry for many who were seduced by the awesome divies a year or so ago ...never get their capital now

Long way down from nearly 9 bucks ....wonder when the down trend will stop ...maybe 2 bucks? ....maybe never?

[bullfrog]

Those cheap shares of $2.80 odd at the SPP not looking too cheap these days.

Also feel sorry for many who were seduced by the awesome divies a year or so ago ...never get their capital now

Long way down from nearly 9 bucks ....wonder when the down trend will stop ...maybe 2 bucks? ....maybe never?

thats like 1/5000%, never knew % went that low

[Teatree]

Yep I was seduced. Didn't pay 9 fortunately but well in the red all the same. Judging by the traffic on the roads in Auckland we are back to pre covid levels except for the south western heading to the airport which is probably only 1/3 of what it was. So jet fuel and a small issue with a refinery are being a drag

[peat]

Yep I was seduced. Didn't pay 9 fortunately but well in the red all the same. Judging by the traffic on the roads in Auckland we are back to pre covid levels except for the south western heading to the airport which is probably only 1/3 of what it was. So jet fuel and a small issue with a refinery are being a drag

its not just that
it is margins

[winner69]

its not just that
it is margins

......and competition

[Teatree]

Competition for sure 7 stations on a 5km stretch close to my work. Two are z and they typically have the highest prices

[Lion_graf]

Why is it that they persist on having higher prices than every other gas station in the same area?

Will we see a recovery short/medium term or will borders need to be fully open to see any sort of rise in the future?

Surely less margins and more volume would hurt them a lot less. I really like the way BP has gone with their coffee.

[Beagle]

Those cheap shares of $2.80 odd at the SPP not looking too cheap these days.

Also feel sorry for many who were seduced by the awesome divies a year or so ago ...never get their capital now

Long way down from nearly 9 bucks ....wonder when the down trend will stop ...maybe 2 bucks? ....maybe never?

Deep systemic issues here. Huge debt, grossly inefficient company, minnows constantly gnawing away at market share, lots of old sites that have a far less attractive food and coffee offer than BP, Marsden point refinery ostensibly a white elephant and last but certainly not least an ineffective CEO who's reactive rather than proactive.

Z had the opportunity to lead the charge and roll out widespread EV charging points across its network to leverage its shop sales, (what are you to do while waiting for your EV to charge but eat and drink ?) but I am hearing they have effectively lost any chance of first mover advantage.

Hard to see how they turn this thing around from what appears to be a journey to nowhere.

[Baa_Baa]

Why is it that they persist on having higher prices than every other gas station in the same area?

Will we see a recovery short/medium term or will borders need to be fully open to see any sort of rise in the future?

Surely less margins and more volume would hurt them a lot less. I really like the way BP has gone with their coffee.

They persist with the ‘full service’ model, that staff who come out fill your car check your oil pump your tyres. That’s overhead costs. The low margin no people suppliers have proven that there’s a better way to make money in this market. It doesn’t involve overheads.

Quaint but it’s outdated, it’s Past its used by date. Z need to recalibrate to the present, low fuel prices mean low overhead, to be competitive.

I don’t think they get that yet.

[Lion_graf]

They persist with the ‘full service’ model, that staff who come out fill your car check your oil pump your tyres. That’s overhead costs. The low margin no people suppliers have proven that there’s a better way to make money in this market. It doesn’t involve overheads.

Quaint but it’s outdated, it’s Past its used by date. Z need to recalibrate to the present, low fuel prices mean low overhead, to be competitive.

I don’t think they get that yet.

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-business/z-energy-jobs-line-concierge-services-cut-back

They are slowly getting it.. but as beagle said. Reactive rather than proactive. Could have come a lot sooner.

[Airw0lf]

Deep systemic issues here. Huge debt, grossly inefficient company, minnows constantly gnawing away at market share, lots of old sites that have a far less attractive food and coffee offer than BP, Marsden point refinery ostensibly a white elephant and last but certainly not least an ineffective CEO who's reactive rather than proactive.

Z had the opportunity to lead the charge and roll out widespread EV charging points across its network to leverage its shop sales, (what are you to do while waiting for your EV to charge but eat and drink ?) but I am hearing they have effectively lost any chance of first mover advantage.

Hard to see how they turn this thing around from what appears to be a journey to nowhere.

This is slightly offtopic but I tried using the Sharetank feature of the Z App the other day and tried to invite a friend to share my fuel. She entered my unique Sharetank code correctly but the app claims it's invalid. Submitted screenshots from my phone and hers to Z's Sharetank app support and so far all I've got is a bemused "you look like you are doing everything right, it should work."

Did some more digging on Google Play and looked at some of the Z App reviews - looks like the app is very hit and miss based on user feedback. The much vaunted Fastlane feature doesn't always seem to work and then you waste a lot of time trying to get it to work properly, undoing the benefit of Fastlane in the first place, etc.

In short, my brief flirtation with the Z App per above is making me increasingly happy with my current provider BP. BP's pay-in-car feature works right every time and doesn't rely on some fancy number plate recognition that is being rolled out at a snail's pace across the network (and doesn't seem too reliable either once installed.) The Sharetank seemed like a really interesting concept that I wanted to try but it failed for me from the get go.

Slightly disgruntled at the moment about Z (speaking as a customer) and certainly am feeling like they are on a journey sideways at best...

[bottomfeeder]

BP app is great, but BP has become so complacement that they offer 10 cent AA discount, but are 10 cents dearer than other servos nearby. So discount has become a price diffetential ratather than a discount. Now that I have a car that takes 95, I found BP is way dearer, than others. Pak n Save is the cheapest, and that is provided by Z.

[bull....]

The world may never consume more oil than in 2019, BP says
London (CNN Business)Demand for oil may have peaked last year, according to BP, which says the global market for crude might never recover from the coronavirus pandemic (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/09/investing/stocks-week-ahead/index.html).

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/14/business/bp-oil-demand-peak-coronavirus/index.html

[Beagle]

BP app is great, but BP has become so complacement that they offer 10 cent AA discount, but are 10 cents dearer than other servos nearby. So discount has become a price diffetential ratather than a discount. Now that I have a car that takes 95, I found BP is way dearer, than others. Pak n Save is the cheapest, and that is provided by Z.

Perhaps but ask anyone who travels the country often and they'll tell you that BP's food range and quality as well as their coffee and onsite facilities rocks compared to any other fuel company. Right there is one of ZEL's biggest problems that's not talked about very much.

[Zaphod]

BP app is great, but BP has become so complacement that they offer 10 cent AA discount, but are 10 cents dearer than other servos nearby. So discount has become a price diffetential ratather than a discount. Now that I have a car that takes 95, I found BP is way dearer, than others. Pak n Save is the cheapest, and that is provided by Z.

Pricing is very dependent upon both local competition and whether the station is located in an urban centre. The BP nearby s currently 1cpl higher for 91 than Mobil or Caltex. Z is currently 1cpl higher than that.

Many of the local BP stores don't offer 95, only 98, so that factors into the equation.

As Beagle mentions, BP's food has been really good, as is Z. Long gone are the days where pies came in little plastic bags and were soggy; I remember Dad occasionally buying those when I was a child for our lunch on the go.

Thank goodness the "good old days" are gone.

[peat]

This is slightly offtopic but I tried using the Sharetank feature of the Z App the other day and tried to invite a friend to share my fuel. She entered my unique Sharetank code correctly but the app claims it's invalid. Submitted screenshots from my phone and hers to Z's Sharetank app support and so far all I've got is a bemused "you look like you are doing everything right, it should work."

Did some more digging on Google Play and looked at some of the Z App reviews - looks like the app is very hit and miss based on user feedback. The much vaunted Fastlane feature doesn't always seem to work and then you waste a lot of time trying to get it to work properly, undoing the benefit of Fastlane in the first place, etc.

In short, my brief flirtation with the Z App per above is making me increasingly happy with my current provider BP. BP's pay-in-car feature works right every time and doesn't rely on some fancy number plate recognition that is being rolled out at a snail's pace across the network (and doesn't seem too reliable either once installed.) The Sharetank seemed like a really interesting concept that I wanted to try but it failed for me from the get go.

Slightly disgruntled at the moment about Z (speaking as a customer) and certainly am feeling like they are on a journey sideways at best...

Yeh I never got any benefit from using Sharetank. One time if fastlaned me and debited my credit card the extortionate pump price at the time whereas I wanted to pay using Sharetank because I was in Auckland and I fill up Sharetank outside of Auckland .... Dude in the shop was completely unhelpful when I told what happened. I had no idea about Fastlane doing that. I didnt even know I was in a fastlane tbh.
Also they create such a 'spread' between what you pay for buying it in your tank and what you have to pay for putting it in sharetank that it is impossible to 'win' by buying low and using high which is what I wanted to use it for. But I dont think this really matters in terms of the overall success of the company.... just a nitpick

[ananda77]

Lots to complain about the Z sharetank option by quite a few people. I am sure, they live in a different reality then me. Filled up the sharetank with 95 in Hamilton at 1.83 discounted (1000 ltr. + 50 bonus ltrs. The 50 bonus ltrs. is equivalent to a 10 c discount). Right now in my area in Auckland, the cheapest discounted price of 95 is 1.99 on a 10 cent day. On a 60 ltr. fill, that is a saving of 9.60.
The total cost of 1050 ltrs. of fuel was 1830 (interest free for 6 mnths. using the GEM visa) That gives me 17.5 fills and a total saving of 168 or 9.2% return on capital.

[dreamcatcher]

All these saving schemes a waste of time. Get a monthly charge account that saves anywhere upto 20c per litre

[Beagle]

All these saving schemes a waste of time. Get a monthly charge account that saves anywhere upto 20c per litre

I am all ears to where to apply for an account that would save me up to 20 cents per liter. Care to share more info ?

[dreamcatcher]

Understand brother gets 15c with his camper van card and niece uses hers in trucks stops 20c....... but will confirm

[Zaphod]

There's quite a few different fuelcard vendors, some of which were offering at least 10cpl (20cpl on diesel), but there were some additional fees, so unless you're a major user it wasn't an overly economic method to save money. We've ended up just taking advantage of the discount days, and with Z we haven't bothered stacking for quite some time.

[Paradox]

Morningstar have a val on this of 6.35 (early July) how is this so removed from what the market thinks
Doubt it would ever go to $6.35 (unless there is T/O but who would under the current outlook) but the recovery story is good. Apart from Jet and Marine fuel, other volumes are holding well. Effects of cost cutting will flow through over time.

Wasn’t long ago it was touching $3.

Disc: hold some in trading portfolio

[Beagle]

There's quite a few different fuelcard vendors, some of which were offering at least 10cpl (20cpl on diesel), but there were some additional fees, so unless you're a major user it wasn't an overly economic method to save money. We've ended up just taking advantage of the discount days, and with Z we haven't bothered stacking for quite some time.

Yeah I think the stacking thing has fallen down a bit as a result of Covid. Who can be bothered making repeat trips to Z or Caltex and putting in just $40 to stack points...over and over again...so many touch points including dirty fuel bowser handles touched repeatedly and so frequently. These days I wait till my car is flashing the warning fuel empty light, go to the nearest cheapest station which is usually Mobil and fill right to the top, pay and immediately thoroughly wash my hands. Sometimes I can get up to 3 weeks without needing to fill up, but usually about once a fortnight. EV owners who charge at home must be feeling a little bit extra smug in these strange times we live in with not having to touch potentially infectious dirty petrol bowser handles.

[dreamcatcher]

I am all ears to where to apply for an account that would save me up to 20 cents per liter. Care to share more info ?

Mobil Kiwi Fuelcard between 10c - 20c discount (currently 20c) unfortunately need to find someone who's a NZMCA member. The girls say they use various cards for discounts like Farmlands Card, Supercard -16c mobil, 12c Z, 12c Caltex .........listed a few below.

Appears there are heaps of options but never bothered looking before as I use a hybrid unless the boat hits water again which gobbles approx 46 - 50 litres per hour.

https://store.nzfarmsource.co.nz/partnerships/supercard

https://www.nzmca.org.nz/kiwi-fuelcards

https://www.farmlands.co.nz/FarmlandsCard/KeyCardPartners/CardFuel/

https://www.farmlands.co.nz/Productsandservices/Farmlands-Fuel/Truck-stop-pricing-update/

https://www.comparefuelcards.co.nz/

[mcdongle]

Its just not possible to condense enough energy into a large scale passenger plane with batteries. The weight kills it before it gets off the ground. This is the stuff or airline exec's with more time on their hands than they know what to do with and a guilty conscience for burning so much fuel. Chris Luxon another closet greenie with too much time on his hands so is dabbling with this folly too. I get it, you think this is a sunset industry. There's going to be very strong twilight for many decades to come, you read it here from me first. https://www.marketscreener.com/Z-ENERGY-LTD-13984015/consensus/
Average broker valuation $7.14

Its only a small plane but its a start.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/427098/sounds-air-aims-to-offer-first-regional-zero-emission-flights

[gains]

September 2020 Monthly Volume Data looked pretty good.

The main take home for me, overall Sept 2020 volumes were down 8% on Sept 2019.

Appears they're recovering okay, hopefully they can maintain -8% volumes and have cut 8% of their costs to match the loss in revenue.

Jet Fuel is obviously whats dragging the chain but seeing access to Australia about to open up, volumes could be much better next month!

[dreamcatcher]

September 2020 Monthly Volume Data looked pretty good.

The main take home for me, overall Sept 2020 volumes were down 8% on Sept 2019.

Appears they're recovering okay, hopefully they can maintain -8% volumes and have cut 8% of their costs to match the loss in revenue.

Jet Fuel is obviously whats dragging the chain but seeing access to Australia about to open up, volumes could be much better next month!

Believe this will also boost jet fuel sales ......... "Japan is planning to remove a ban on overseas travel to China and 11 other countries and regions including Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam and Malaysia next month while still advising against non-essential travel"

[bull....]

September 2020 Monthly Volume Data looked pretty good.

The main take home for me, overall Sept 2020 volumes were down 8% on Sept 2019.

Appears they're recovering okay, hopefully they can maintain -8% volumes and have cut 8% of their costs to match the loss in revenue.

Jet Fuel is obviously whats dragging the chain but seeing access to Australia about to open up, volumes could be much better next month!

yes was good report. this is one stock that hasnt bounced back at all yet. we have recently brought a oversized position expecting what has been reported and with a slow grind higher over time in jet fuel sales and a resumtion in divs at some stage could be value at these levels

[tim23]

yes was good report. this is one stock that hasnt bounced back at all yet. we have recently brought a oversized position expecting what has been reported and with a slow grind higher over time in jet fuel sales and a resumtion in divs at some stage could be value at these levels

Time for a rally, has lagged the market, probably oversold?

[Grimy]

Time for a rally, has lagged the market, probably oversold?

Probably. I've topped up a little when under $2.70

[Beagle]

Time for a rally, has lagged the market, probably oversold?

I caught up with our resident superstar cat, (not the snow variety) recently for a couple of drinks and was very impressed with his very deep knowledge of this company and the industry. He's been elevated to such stardom now I'm not sure he will be so free to express his views so liberally on this forum going forward.
While I will not put words into anyone else's mouth (because that's not cool), there was nothing we discussed that changed my very jaundiced view of this company as I've already articulated, (succinctly summed up in post #1837).

They simply cannot be relied upon as a reliable dividend payer in my opinion. Some mutts are not worth holding, its as simple as that.

[Comyn]

I find Mike Benetts CEO constantly talking how he doesnt want petrol to be sold. He wants to transform to carbon free NZ. He would of rather be in the digital business as he deems it more progressive. Having the leader talking like that about Z energy didnt install me with confidence to stay invested.

[bull....]

Time for a rally, has lagged the market, probably oversold?

still way oversold on the rsi mthly and without a doubt has not had a bounce like some others eg air , thl etc.

im thinking even at some stage if they only paid even a 20c div per year thats still be 8% odd gross yield at current prices , wow if they some how got back to 40 - 50c divs if things in the world normalise that be nearly 18 - 20% gross div per year lol steal of the century if it happened if if i say at this stage

[dibble]

wow if they some how got back to 40 - 50c divs if things in the world normalise that be nearly 18 - 20% gross div per year lol steal of the century if it happened if if i say at this stage

If, if, dont forget IF they ever achieve a similar free cash flow to the good ol' days there are an extra 350m worth of shares to distribute it across.

[bull....]

If, if, dont forget IF they ever achieve a similar free cash flow to the good ol' days there are an extra 350m worth of shares to distribute it across.

thats true even at 20cps / yr as mentioned thats a pretty impressive yield

[sb9]

I'm picking they will announce a token divvy of at least 8c-10c when they report in couple of weeks time. Balance sheet/cash flow should be able to allow that outlay on 520mln outstanding shares. Pure hunch on my part based their recent monthly fuel volume updates, DYOR.

[bull....]

I'm picking they will announce a token divvy of at least 8c-10c when they report in couple of weeks time. Balance sheet/cash flow should be able to allow that outlay on 520mln outstanding shares. Pure hunch on my part based their recent monthly fuel volume updates, DYOR.

possibly but even if not then probably one after i reckon. seems wont be long to it breaks over $3. i see the swing higher stalled last time of the covid lows was 3.50 so maybe we test that again?

[sb9]

possibly but even if not then probably one after i reckon. seems wont be long to it breaks over $3. i see the swing higher stalled last time of the covid lows was 3.50 so maybe we test that again?

Broke through $3 mark as we speak, momentum trading could see it push close to that 3.50 mark close to results date...

[Beagle]

I think a lot of you folks seem to have forgotten that under the terms of their agreement with the banks they are precluded from paying a dividend until at earliest October 2021. Even then they have a truly shocking track record with their dividends so any attempt to value this based on yield is completely invalid in my opinion. DYOR - I have warned enough about this mutt. Very deep systemic issues remain.
This is off my watch list and now on my no further comment list. Some companies are simply not worth my time and this is one of them.

[bull....]

I think a lot of you folks seem to have forgotten that under the terms of their agreement with the banks they are precluded from paying a dividend until at earliest October 2021. Even then they have a truly shocking track record with their dividends so any attempt to value this based on yield is completely invalid in my opinion. DYOR - I have warned enough about this mutt. Very deep systemic issues remain.
This is off my watch list and now on my no further comment list. Some companies are simply not worth my time and this is one of them.

i can wait to end of next yr for gross yield of 10 - 20% dividends yummy yummy even moaningstar have buy rating saying over 50% undervalued at current prices 50% unbelievable value

[bottomfeeder]

B Hath never pays dividends. Its profit that counts. Conservatively I see at least $3.50 by years end.

[Filthy]

even moaningstar have buy rating

haha if there is one thing I have learned over the years, it is pretty much to do the opposite of whatever morningstar say. I swear they just try and line-up a bunch of gullible retail holders to buy/sell into the holdings of their institutional clients. complete garbage. anyway - back to ZEL. this is a sunset business in my opinion. after the Covid recovery (which might take years thanks to jet fuel) will be the electric car revolution. sorry bull, but I agree with the beagles nose on this one (unless your just in it for the pump).

[bull....]

haha if there is one thing I have learned over the years, it is pretty much to do the opposite of whatever morningstar say. I swear they just try and line-up a bunch of gullible retail holders to buy/sell into the holdings of their institutional clients. complete garbage. anyway - back to ZEL. this is a sunset business in my opinion. after the Covid recovery (which might take years thanks to jet fuel) will be the electric car revolution. sorry bull, but I agree with the beagles nose on this one (unless your just in it for the pump).

undervalued as no covid bounce has happened therefore its still being priced as if we are in lockdown. a similar business as air has had a bounce to reflect at some stage business will return. z has not. they will pay a dividend again and for your info beagle pumped all over this that z would be in business for years on this thread . you must have forgotton. it was actually me who said it wouldnt so agree with you its a business that wont be the same in many years to come

[bottomfeeder]

Looked at buying electric car. Not worthwhile as a purely financial exercise. A bit premature to say the electric revolution will stuff up z energy. Maybe something to worry about in 20 years or so.

[couta1]

Looked at buying electric car. Not worthwhile as a purely financial exercise. A bit premature to say the electric revolution will stuff up z energy. Maybe something to worry about in 20 years or so. Yeah imagine all electric V8 supercars/Rallycars or Drag cars, yeah right.

[Beagle]

Looked at buying electric car. Not worthwhile as a purely financial exercise. A bit premature to say the electric revolution will stuff up z energy. Maybe something to worry about in 20 years or so.

I've been looking hard at whether to treat myself with the new V8 powered BMW 550 x drive - 0-100 in about 3.6 seconds and fabulous comfort and handling. Basically bordering right on supercar performance for $149K. They've just arrived in the country and I got my invitation to test drive one yesterday due to my previous expression of interest on the BMW website. Where I've arrived at after much internal debate in my head is that a car like this is likely to depreciate at a previously unexperienced extraordinary rate as even faster high quality European EV's become available for similar money.

Normally a vehicle like this halves every 3 years..so if one jumps in early and pays full retail to get one of the first in the country their $150K including on road costs will be worth about $75K in 3 years. I can't be bothered getting a bath for $25,000 in depreciation each year for the next 3 years, around $500 per week...the experience simply isn't worth that to me. But what if the depreciation is actually worse ?
The problem now with all new generations of EV's just around the corner is that I think the depreciation will be even faster now, (maybe I will lose $80,000 - $90,000 in the first 3 years ?), so if I want to indulge myself I am better to wait for a new EV that "spins my wheels" so to speak.

I think we will see some quite big changes with EV's in the next 5 years including the price point and some really quite remarkable changes in the next decade.
Jet fuel demand isn't coming back to anything like what it was any year soon.
Too many headwinds for this company with minnows constantly gnawing away at market share and people are right to be unimpressed with Mike Bennetts "leadership".

Gull have 20 cents off a liter until midday tomorrow, just an example of the competitive pressure and blowtorch being applied to ZEL's margins.

Opps I've been a bad dog and wasted some time in this thread. Silly dog.

[tango]

We have a government that favours light rail and electric vehicles. While that change isn’t going to happen overnight it is possible that incentives or taxes could expedite the transition to mass transport and electric vehicles.

Much like beagle I was considering purchasing a vehicle and have held off because of my expectation that there will be luxury electric or hybrid vehicles arriving in 2021. I have been drooling over the Mercedes-Benz AMGGT convertible but I will wait to see what’s available in the electric vehicle market in the near future...

[Beagle]

We have a government that favours light rail and electric vehicles. While that change isn’t going to happen overnight it is possible that incentives or taxes could expedite the transition to mass transport and electric vehicles.

Much like beagle I was considering purchasing a vehicle and have held off because of my expectation that there will be luxury electric or hybrid vehicles arriving in 2021. I have been drooling over the Mercedes-Benz AMGGT convertible but I will wait to see what’s available in the electric vehicle market in the near future...

I'd wager there's thousands of people like us...sitting on the fence, waiting for a high performance EV that "spins our wheels".

[bottomfeeder]

Evs have unreal depreciation, especially when the battery starts to hold a lesser and lesser charge. Just about junk when you need a new battery pack. Typically people with less funds buy second hand vehicles. The older the vehicle the poorer the buyer. Which one is going to be able to afford $10k, on an older vehicle. The more Evs on the road the more this unreal depreciation will become evident.

[couta1]

I'd wager there's thousands of people like us...sitting on the fence, waiting for a high performance EV that "spins our wheels". No definately not me,besides the smell of Methanol is something you will never replace with electric.

[tango]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122981360/september-new-vehicle-registrations-good-for-tesla

[stoploss]

Evs have unreal depreciation, especially when the battery starts to hold a lesser and lesser charge. Just about junk when you need a new battery pack. Typically people with less funds buy second hand vehicles. The older the vehicle the poorer the buyer. Which one is going to be able to afford $10k, on an older vehicle. The more Evs on the road the more this unreal depreciation will become evident.
“The older the vehicle the poorer the buyer “Lol , my garage 2002, 2008,2012 . Think you have this wrong .

[Arthur]

Evs have unreal depreciation, especially when the battery starts to hold a lesser and lesser charge. Just about junk when you need a new battery pack. Typically people with less funds buy second hand vehicles. The older the vehicle the poorer the buyer. Which one is going to be able to afford $10k, on an older vehicle. The more Evs on the road the more this unreal depreciation will become evident.

Can you link the research on this please. I've been looking on the second hand market and they seem to be holding up better than ICE (aside from a few old Leafs bought in from Japan after being all but written off)

[dreamcatcher]

TESLA ROADSTER - Acceleration 0-400km/h (259MPH) ..........less then 20 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQilGuKmYPY

[Cyclical]

Evs have unreal depreciation, especially when the battery starts to hold a lesser and lesser charge. Just about junk when you need a new battery pack. Typically people with less funds buy second hand vehicles. The older the vehicle the poorer the buyer. Which one is going to be able to afford $10k, on an older vehicle. The more Evs on the road the more this unreal depreciation will become evident.

Does a Tesla Model S depreciate faster than a similarly priced 5 or 7 series BMW? I highly doubt it. Your argument for used car buyers inability to afford to maintain an older EV (if that's what you are implying) is imo even more applicable to the ICE multi turbo luxury German barges, which surely contributes to their savage depreciation. I sunk over $10k replacing the engine on my 335i not so long ago, doing all the labour myself. And I've been sleeping a lot easier since I sold my v8 M3...both fantastic engines when they are working well, but both potentially costly hand grenades!

[dreamcatcher]

My first 1999-2000 Prius 1500cc hybrid battery lasted 17yrs and was the prototype for future Toyota models. Newer batteries even better performance and reliability with replacement costing around $3000. Earlier model had 40 rods with 6 D size batteries per rod.

Upgraded to 1800cc model and no fear about battery as I believe none have been replaced yet........... 900k around $70 petrol cheap as

Would expect these early Tesla vehicles to double in price and become future collectors gems maybe even better then SHARES

[tango]

TESLA ROADSTER - Acceleration 0-400km/h (259MPH) ..........less then 20 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQilGuKmYPY

When they make a convertible I’m in. I’ve driven the S and it performed well but it doesn’t feel as luxurious as the European cars. No doubt that will come.

If you’re a supercar fan supercar blondie has some fun videos

https://www.facebook.com/supercarblondie/

[tango]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122981360/september-new-vehicle-registrations-good-for-tesla

Electric and hybrid vehicles accounted for 11.5% of September new vehicle registrations. If you exclude commercial vehicles they account for 16.5% of car registrations.

[bullfrog]

And then there’s hydrogen cars and trucks, seems Waitomo is getting stuck in.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122649949/hydrogen-cars-and-their-future-in-new-zealand (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122649949/hydrogen-cars-and-their-future-in-new-zealand)

“Initial validation testing will put 20 Hyzon trucks on the road in 2021 which will be fuelled by Hiringa’s nationwide hydrogen refuelling network located on key partner sites such as Waitomo Group’s existing Fuel Stops.”

[Beagle]

Does a Tesla Model S depreciate faster than a similarly priced 5 or 7 series BMW? I highly doubt it. Your argument for used car buyers inability to afford to maintain an older EV (if that's what you are implying) is imo even more applicable to the ICE multi turbo luxury German barges, which surely contributes to their savage depreciation. I sunk over $10k replacing the engine on my 335i not so long ago, doing all the labour myself. And I've been sleeping a lot easier since I sold my v8 M3...both fantastic engines when they are working well, but both potentially costly hand grenades!

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/bmw-m550i-xdrive-review Facelifted one arrived yesterday and is $149,995. It has the latest version of the twin turbo N63 engine with 390 kw's and 750 nm's and undoubtedly has stellar performance and handling BUT as you probably know earlier iterations of this engine have had a chequered track record with reliability. BMW will assure buyers that all the tweaks on the very latest version have fixed past issues but they would say that wouldn't they ;)

Unfortunately people are right to be concerned about the cost of maintaining these cars and engines (especially high powered twin turbo V8 engines like this one), outside of warranty and while its great that BMW now provide a 5 year warranty the question is with the EV revolution ostensibly already upon us what will one's $149K be worth in 5 years time when the warranty has run out ? My best guess on residual value at that point would be 30-35% retained value so one is likely to tear up ~ $100,000 owning one for 5 years. Oh and they like lots of the expensive 98 Octane fuel that in their infinite wisdom Z doesn't even sell !

From a recent Australian Car Advice article In July 2020, BMW announced it would be releasing 23 electrified models (meaning both fully-electric and hybrid-electric) within the next three years. What's that going to do to the resale value of ICE engines BMW's ?

Anyway I suppose we better get back to talking about this dog...opps sorry company. Surely ZEL is an acronym for Zero excitement left ?

[tango]

GM has a new electric Hummer

560 km range
1,000 HORSEPOWER
AND 11,500 LB-FT OF TORQUE


https://youtu.be/WuaN7nYyDPo

https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev

[Waltzing]

Surely one would take MR B's advice and invest that 100 grand in a retirement fund?

[bottomfeeder]

I see a lot of references comparing evs to the higher end vehicles. Compare their prices to ordinary cars, which the majority buy.

[Filthy]

here are some good links & info for those interested:

current models - https://driveelectric.org.nz/individuals/ev-models-and-where-to-buy/
2021/2022 models coming - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/
global EV outlook - https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2020
stages of technology adaption (we are probably still in the 1st stage.... but think about the speed & uptake of recent revolutions like the mobile phone or computers) - https://ondigitalmarketing.com/learn/odm/foundations/5-customer-segments-technology-adoption/
climate change protests - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/climate/global-climate-strike.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2019_climate_strikes (....give it a few years and many of these students/young people will be doctors/lawyers/accountants/CEOs etc and be a financial position to purchase environmentally friendly cars)
EVs well supported by energy companies with low charge rates (although, no reason why you cant put your own solar on your roof! https://www.solarcity.co.nz/solarzero) https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/your-home/pricing-and-rates/electric-car-plan
VW & Audi planning more EVs - https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/14/vw-to-spend-9-billion-on-electric-vehicles-audi-plans-30-new-evs.html
Tesla dropped its Model 3 price this week by ~$5k https://www.tesla.com/model3 and have plans for a two million mile battery (I'm pretty keen on the AWD performance model 0-100 in 3.3secs)

so basically, when everyone charges their cars at home overnight (on cheap rates, using renewable energy https://ecotricity.co.nz/electricvehicles/), at the supermarket, at the mall or at a fast charging station at the side of the road - all ZEL is going to be left with is a bunch of corner stores scattered around the country (that will supply a bit of gasoline to a couple of old timers driving classic cars). death by a thousand cuts is coming. the question is - how long it will take. I am of the opinion it is only ~5-10 years away.

Beagle, you should put your name down for one of those new BMWi4s...

[tango]

Thanks for the links @Filthy

You're clean and green!

I sold out of ZEL and am heavily invested in the electricity generators

[tango]

Surely one would take MR B's advice and invest that 100 grand in a retirement fund?

Absolutely! But, I like to have a little fun with my money too :)
Mr B is "the millionaire next door" (that's a book on millionaires)

[bull....]

looks like the down ramping brigade have had little success pushing the price down this morning. they might need to go for a drive in there big cars smell the roses and realise z needs a bounce in price to reflect not so bad environment now

[bottomfeeder]

200k changed hands @ 3.02

[Langara]

Would suggest ZEL dodged a bullet with another community outbreak not coming to fruition from the port worker. Auckland going back into Level 3 stalled momentum last time it started rising.
Hopefully the upward trajectory can continue, although may have to wait till after the US election.
Someone mention an update was due in November, what’s people’s thoughts on the possibility of a divi being reinstated next year?

[dreamcatcher]

Would suggest ZEL dodged a bullet with another community outbreak not coming to fruition from the port worker. Auckland going back into Level 3 stalled momentum last time it started rising.
Hopefully the upward trajectory can continue, although may have to wait till after the US election.
Someone mention an update was due in November, what’s people’s thoughts on the possibility of a divi being reinstated next year?

Great chance of divvies been reinstated second half of 2021 and that's when ZEL will become much more interesting.

[Filthy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123216764/lets-save-4b-by-bidding-goodbye-to-petrol-by-2030--campaigner

[Jim]

How do you think about the 1H results ?

[winner69]

How do you think about the 1H results ?

Pretty solid in circumstances

H2 going to be OK

Share price should react +ly

[bull....]

margins were a little dis-appointing

[sb9]

Video Conf call was good, based on their commentary there's a very good chance for dividends to resume earlier that Oct21. I would say probably end of FY Mar 21, there could be dividend declared.

[bull....]

Video Conf call was good, based on their commentary there's a very good chance for dividends to resume earlier that Oct21. I would say probably end of FY Mar 21, there could be dividend declared.

lot of if between then and now . lockdowns , margins , competition etc etc probably have to reduce my expectation of a big div

[bottomfeeder]

Result not pleasing, but has it been factored into the SP already.

[Langara]

Macquarie has retained their $4 12 month price and estimating dividend at 30 cents. If that happens will certainly see big upside. Obviously a few potential variables out there at the moment.

[peat]

it expects to resume dividend payments after the first half of the 2022 financial year.

[Ahgong]

Can someone explain how Z's buyback works? Its letter to shareholders mention buying back 612,698 shares at $4,715612. Way above current market value. See letter below:

PROPOSED BUY-BACK OF SHARES

This document is provided to all shareholders in accordance with the requirements set out in section 62 of the Companies Act 1993 (Act).
Z Energy Limited (Z Energy) wishes to make an offer to Z Energy LTI Trustee Limited (the Trustee) to buy back up to 612,698 shares (the Forfeited Plan Shares) which the Trustee is holding and which have been forfeited by employees participating in Z Energy’s Restricted Share Long Term Incentive Plan (the Buyback).
The terms of the Buyback, which will be made under section 60(1)(b)(ii) of the Act (and in accordance with clause 23.2 of Z Energy’s constitution), are as follows:
Z Energy has entered into a Restricted Share Long Term Incentive Plan Put and Call Option Deed (the Deed) with the Trustee. Under the Deed, Z Energy can exercise a call option to require the Trustee to sell forfeited plan shares to Z Energy from time to time. Z Energy wishes to exercise that call option in relation to the Shares;
The Shares will be acquired by Z Energy and held as treasury stock; and the total consideration for the acquisition of the Shares will be $4,715,612 being the outstanding loan balance associated with those Shares, owed by the Trustee to Z Energy.
Board resolutions

To initiate the proposed Buy-back the Board of Z Energy resolved on 3 November 2020:

1. To make the offer to buy-back the Forfeited Plan Shares (Offer) at least 10 working days after a disclosure document has been sent to all shareholders in accordance with section 62 of the Companies Act 1993 (Act).
2. That the acquisition of the Forfeited Plan Shares under the Offer is in the best interests of Z Energy and of benefit to the remaining shareholders.
3. That the terms of the Offer and the consideration offered for the Forfeited Plan Shares are fair and reasonable to both Z Energy and the remaining shareholders.
4. That it is not aware of any information that will not be disclosed to shareholders:

4.1. which is material to an assessment of the value of the Forfeited Plan
Shares; and

4.2. as a result of which the terms of the Offer and consideration offered for
the Forfeited Plan Shares are unfair to the Trustee;
5. That on acquisition of the Forfeited Plan Shares, those shares are to be held by Z Energy as treasury stock
6. That the Board is satisfied that Z Energy will, immediately after acquiring the Forfeited Plan Shares, satisfy the solvency test applied under section 52 of the Act.

The grounds for the directors’ conclusions under the resolutions in paragraphs 2 to 4 above (inclusive) are:

1. the Offer will enable Z Energy to acquire and then transfer the Forfeited Plan Shares on-market without diluting the current shareholding; and
2. the consideration for the Forfeited Plan Shares is the outstanding loan balance associated with such Forfeited Plan Shares.
Interested directors
Julia Raue is “interested” (as that term is defined in section 139 of the Act) in Z Energy making the Offer, by virtue of being a director of each of Z Energy and the Trustee. The details of this interest have been entered into Z Energy’s interests register. However, none of the directors of the Z Energy has any “relevant interest” (as that term is defined in section 146 of the Act) in any of the Forfeited Plan Shares.

Yours faithfully,
Debra Blackett
General Counsel and Chief Governance Officer

[winner69]

Ahgong - it all comes down to this “ the consideration for the Forfeited Plan Shares is the outstanding loan balance associated with such Forfeited Plan Shares”

Sort of implies that they must have acquired Some at a higher price than today

Bit bod a messy housekeeping exercise that often happens in such schemes

[CraftyBeer]

Interesting that Pak n Save South Island is discontinuing its Sticky Club discount fuel scheme from the end of November - it's made me loyal to Z for the past few years with up to 35c a litre discount each month. The flier they handed me at the supermarket today claimed it's been "expensive" to run so guess I'll have to look elsewhere to save a bit of gas money.

[bull....]

good fuel volume report from Z TODAY

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ZEL/362981/334759.pdf

with the covid vaccine news jet fuel might bounce back sooner than 22

[sb9]

good fuel volume report from Z TODAY

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ZEL/362981/334759.pdf

with the covid vaccine news jet fuel might bounce back sooner than 22

They sure look like on track, big volumes going through today. must be fundies buying up...

[bull....]

They sure look like on track, big volumes going through today. must be fundies buying up...

money flow is showing accumulation since early oct , volume is big today lots of buying by funds on the vaccine news

[Langara]

Or are ppl selling to get out after buying in at the capital raise and seeing no share price movement upwards as might have been expected. Certainly didn’t go the same way compared to Auckland Airport etc

[bull....]

Or are ppl selling to get out after buying in at the capital raise and seeing no share price movement upwards as might have been expected. Certainly didn’t go the same way compared to Auckland Airport etc

its moving up now isnt it , guess people selling wont partake in the jet fuel recovery and divs to com hopefully. pretty attractive yield it be at current prices compared to the bank when they resume those divs

[Robomo]

They sure look like on track, big volumes going through today. must be fundies buying up...

The "fundies" or "instos" seem to be blamed for many things when large volumes are traded.
So if "fundies are buying up..." who is selling? It's a fair bet that it would only be other "fundies" selling out? Some 'experts' are saying "buy", other "experts" with the same information are saying "sell". How can this be so?

[peat]

Some 'experts' are saying "buy", other "experts" with the same information are saying "sell". How can this be so?

Because no one knows.
except Beagle - he knows. and he says no.

[bull....]

z energy is up 13% last mth so its doing fine still plenty of room in the covid bounce move and we price in the recovery.

fuel volumes back to normal , jet fuel will bounce back at some stage as will dividends .... planets are aligning as they say and who cares about peak oil in 15 yrs time its about now and the opportunity

[dreamcatcher]

z energy is up 13% last mth so its doing fine still plenty of room in the covid bounce move and we price in the recovery.

fuel volumes back to normal , jet fuel will bounce back at some stage as will dividends .... planets are aligning as they say and who cares about peak oil in 15 yrs time its about now and the opportunity

Agreed bull. I'm loaded to the gills but still showing fire RED and waiting for further planets to align.......

[bull....]

Agreed bull. I'm loaded to the gills but still showing fire RED and waiting for further planets to align.......

its all green today

[bull....]

z on fire , you can tell the strenght of the move when it climbs of its lows of the day and ends at weekly highs

[sb9]

z on fire , you can tell the strenght of the move when it climbs of its lows of the day and ends at weekly highs

Most likely due to Akl wasn't put under higher alert level due to latest community case, for now anyway...

[iceman]

Most likely due to Akl wasn't put under higher alert level due to latest community case, for now anyway...

I received a survey today, which I took, asking a whole lot of questions about how I would react to and receive a new company called Z Electric !! Investors may be getting excited about that possibility!

[sb9]

I received a survey today, which I took, asking a whole lot of questions about how I would react to and receive a new company called Z Electric !! Investors may be getting excited about that possibility!

Thanks for that, I think that could be what Mike was alluding to at the 1H results conf call about their plans working in background.

[bull....]

z breaking above previous resistance , next test 3.50? previous pivot area

[bull....]

still tracking nicely , my the roads were busy on the weekend too.

[Xenith]

Makes sense but I can’t understand the AIRNZ rally!

[Langara]

What happened to up up and away?? Low volume Friday...........

[bull....]

What happened to up up and away?? Low volume Friday...........

are you a trader or investor?

[Langara]

Originally this was meant as a potential trade, ride the capital raise share price upwards as happened to so many other companies. I was surprised when this did not happen. I was always comfortable with the long term fundamentals however and am happy to hold long term. It has been nice to see a bit a movement in the recent week or so, as I feel there is a lot of upside here in the next couple of years. Volumes are rising and share price will move substantially once actual dividend amount is announced.

[Waltzing]

not sure what time frame but petrol engine cars will face increased taxes not less. And before the decade is out driving a petrol engine car will be seen as socially unacceptable. Not sure the mind set of the average kiwi will go this far looking at the favourite pass times of kiwi human beings. Its on the minds of some and next week or so the PM is declare climate marshal law. I say all loud cars and motor bikes be removed first...North land get south african tourist operations vehicles ...gather up 501's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

[peat]

the cops are buying new petrol cars though, so its not going to happen just yet.
They use them for about 6-7 years before replacement so I guess they could be using EV's by the end of the decade.

EV's are just not popular out here in the provinces. I reckon its going to take longer than 10 years before general populace swaps over.

[Zaphod]

the cops are buying new petrol cars though, so its not going to happen just yet.
They use them for about 6-7 years before replacement so I guess they could be using EV's by the end of the decade.

EV's are just not popular out here in the provinces. I reckon its going to take longer than 10 years before general populace swaps over.

The government needs to address the capital cost of the vehicles first, rather than tinkering with things like banning ICE or exempting EV's from RUC.

Waitomo have partnered to rollout hydrogen refueling stations, but I haven't heard anything from Z. Personally though, based on physics and the economics of the hydrogen system envisaged, I'm not convinced the hydrogen economy is any where near tenable yet.

[bull....]

Originally this was meant as a potential trade, ride the capital raise share price upwards as happened to so many other companies. I was surprised when this did not happen. I was always comfortable with the long term fundamentals however and am happy to hold long term. It has been nice to see a bit a movement in the recent week or so, as I feel there is a lot of upside here in the next couple of years. Volumes are rising and share price will move substantially once actual dividend amount is announced.

your not alone in thinking a value trade or investment , i see L1 Capital just joined the register on friday they are value investors

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ZEL/364128/336337.pdf

also i think as waltz mentioned ardern probably spooked a few people with her climate emergency announcement which probably didnt help the share short term.

quite funny her statement as i see NZ might not be invited to the climate summit as NZ is not meeting its paris accord commitments so maybe her statement was just to make sure she gets an invitation.

NZ faces exclusion from major event of carbon-cutting nations

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123532140/nz-faces-exclusion-from-major-event-of-carboncutting-nations

[bull....]

looks like the market has got over arderns climate emergency announcement and is getting back on track

[sb9]

looks like the market has got over arderns climate emergency announcement and is getting back on track

Market pricing in return to normal fuel volumes and possibility of dividend later in the new year.

[arekaywhy]

looks like the market has got over arderns climate emergency announcement and is getting back on track


careful now...we're not far off burning the heretics again

[Joshuatree]

Realists actually, as opposed to a pile of sand.

[bull....]

Z Energy launches pay-by-numberplate option for faster gas payments

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123650019/z-energy-launches-paybynumberplate-option-for-faster-gas-payments

first for nz

[Leftfield]

Z Energy launches pay-by-numberplate option for faster gas payments
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123650019/z-energy-launches-paybynumberplate-option-for-faster-gas-payments
first for nz

Great! So if they steal my car, they now get a bonus tank of gas......lol.

[bottomfeeder]

Not everyone will like it, but I see it as a step forward, if it works as it should.

[sb9]

Great! So if they steal my car, they now get a bonus tank of gas......lol.

I guess you'll have an option to block the rego plate on your app once its stolen, just like blocking stolen credit card.
Good on them trying to be innovative though...

[Grimy]

Great! So if they steal my car, they now get a bonus tank of gas......lol.

“The technology is hooked up to a system that connects with the police so if a stolen vehicle comes in and the licence plate has been entered into that system, it will lock the pump.”

Does still rely on a few processes done quickly. I'm sure if you steal a car and head straight to the petrol station they'll get your fuel. But there will also be more cameras to hopefully get an ID on the thief.

[Xenith]

Excellent growth technology. If done well, this should help reduce wage overheads in the long run.

[Habits]

I didn't think I would own zel again but company is looking much better so bought a small holding yesterday. SP up today, the Morningstar valuation is about 2 dollars higher than todays close. Is it because profits are bouncing back

[nztx]

I didn't think I would own zel again but company is looking much better so bought a small holding yesterday. SP up today, the Morningstar valuation is about 2 dollars higher than todays close. Is it because profits are bouncing back


much the same here too, but bought back in some weeks ago ..

it seems to be zipping upwards quite nicely

[Habits]

much the same here too, but bought back in some weeks ago ..

it seems to be zipping upwards quite nicely

That actually sounds like a very fortuitous move by you nztx... now I must be setting the pace for others to follow lol let see if it holds or advances.

[King1212]

Don't hold...but Zel is Jarden top outperform stock

[tim23]

Don't hold...but Zel is Jarden top outperform stock

I bought some more last week, unfortunately they owe me a lot more than $3.40!

[bull....]

Don't hold...but Zel is Jarden top outperform stock

not surprising that jarden have a strong buy on the stock its undervalued at the moment and when you get specific value investors enter the register it only confirms it , big time if you believe flying will start increasing as vaccines role out next year.

[King1212]

Amazing that thier pick are VGL,KPG and ZEL...own VGL and KPG...

[iceman]

Not everyone will like it, but I see it as a step forward, if it works as it should.

I like it a lot. The first time I used it was down in Christchurch back in January and for some reason they forgot to charge me !

[Grimy]

I like it a lot. The first time I used it was down in Christchurch back in January and for some reason they forgot to charge me !

That doesn't help me as a shareholder much though.........

[bottomfeeder]

I like it a lot. The first time I used it was down in Christchurch back in January and for some reason they forgot to charge me !

What did you say your full name and address was.LOL. After all every dollar of profit brings me closer to that next dividend.

[peat]

I'm seeing where i live at least 12c and sometimes up to 20c per litre difference between competitors and Z, all within a couple of km.
Good for shareholders I guess unless it starts to affect sales.

[Zaphod]

Z Energy launches pay-by-numberplate option for faster gas payments

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123650019/z-energy-launches-paybynumberplate-option-for-faster-gas-payments

first for nz

This could convert some customers from other companies, however:
1. The technology can be replicated by other companies (did they patent it?)
2. Z fuel prices can be similar or wildly different to other local fuel retailers. Locally I have seen anywhere from 3cpl to 14cpl differentials at any given moment.
3. Margins on fuel are much thinner than items sold in-store. One of the drivers behind the stackable discounts, it to ensure maximise customer interaction within the store, thereby tempting them to purchase higher margin items.

[nztx]

What did you say your full name and address was.LOL. After all every dollar of profit brings me closer to that next dividend.


LOL .. seconded ;)

[Dlownz]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/365194
Everyone seems too caught up in atm at the mo. What's everyone's thoughts on this.

[winner69]

This guy tweets this -

@stevebiddle
I don't think @zenergynz even try to be competitive with fuel now. 19 cpl more expensive than Pak n Save directly opposite them which is selling their fuel under a resale agreement.

And Z responds within an 1/2 hour (impressive in holiday mode?)

@zenergynz
While we always aim to give our customers a competitive price, our strategy is focused on excellent customer service and experience, community investment, and exploring sustainable solutions for our industry. I think we can offer you many things that our competitors can't ^EC

[DDog]

I noticed Z's prices are on par with BP now. They were always a lot cheaper but maybe lower prices does not always increase market share.

[Rawz]

No interest in ZEL?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ZEL/366421/339015.pdf

Petrol volume on par with PCP
Diesel up 4% PCP
Jet Fuel down 60% PCP

Even selling more sausage rolls and chocolate bars with convenience store sales increasing 5.9% on a like for like basis.

Once the planes come back we should be rocking.

[arekaywhy]

No interest in ZEL?

...

Once the planes come back we should be rocking.

That's what I'm waiting for. I figure it is a sentiment thing rather than a fundamental issue that is holding the price back.

[Entrep]

So only a year or more to wait then

[Rawz]

Yeah and I'm not sure I'm keen to wait around that long.

My average buy in is $2.77 so sitting on a small double digit gain. Bought after the COVID slump.
I have zero passion for ZEL so have done zero research- (funny since 'DYOR' seems to be the topic of today).
Purchased purely on 'beaten up COVID affected stock that will rebound because vehicles will continue to need fuel', in the medium term future.

Might just let Mr Market digest this news over the next few weeks and set a price for me. Take the gains and remove from my watch list :mellow:

[flyer]

"Purchased purely on 'beaten up COVID affected stock that will rebound because vehicles will continue to need fuel', in the medium term future"

EV's are not going to require fuel, I cant see this rising anytime soon, I sold out at $2.90 last year. The growth of EV's and the lack of airline movements will keep the SP down around its current levels. Yes, EV's may take a bit of time to grow in the NZ market but grow it will and as I drive around in my 4 litre gas guzzler, I seem to see more and more. I'm now a convert and fancy the new FORD Mustang Mach-E.

[mcdongle]

I am all for EV's but reading things like this makes me think the roll out could be slower than the average person thinks..

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107058/uk-electric-cars-will-require-twice-the-world-s-supply-of-cobalt

[Lion_graf]

I am all for EV's but reading things like this makes me think the roll out could be slower than the average person thinks..

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107058/uk-electric-cars-will-require-twice-the-world-s-supply-of-cobalt

Definitely varies by country.. and Z is only in NZ but here is a quote from an article today

The company also noted governments around the world were putting quotas in place around EV take-up rates across the next three decades, led by China which is targeting EV penetrations rates of around 40 per cent by 2030, just nine years away.

[invest]

Lots of people are assuming that there will be widespread adoption of EVs in the short term. It's easier said than done. Aside from production capacity constraints and cost, there are a myriad of issues which will take a long time to resolve.
eg. using the heater in an electric vehicle during cold weather can reduce EV range by over 40 percent
https://medium.com/@angelica.schreyer/limiting-factors-in-the-widespread-adoption-of-electric-vehicles-1201efd8b99f

I've noticed that car chargers are usually taken as more EVs hit the road, so if you need a charge outside (considering the average range of a lLeaf is only 200km) and you can't find a charger it's akin to looking for a toilet when you're busting. Of course, more chargers will be built over time, but installers have to balance demand with over-investment in infrastructure, so no one's going to build thousands of charging stations overnight.

This is why I think Z will quietly continue generating good returns over the next decade.

[Rawz]

Bit of a sunset industry eh. Will be interesting to see how Z and it's peers pivot to meet the requirements of the changing landscape.

Maybe a mixture of a one stop shop for fast car charging, cafe, mini supermarket, car wash etc.

[Sideshow Bob]

Bit of a sunset industry eh. Will be interesting to see how Z and it's peers pivot to meet the requirements of the changing landscape.

Maybe a mixture of a one stop shop for fast car charging, cafe, mini supermarket, car wash etc.

Going to have to keep evolving.

I would have thought would be getting more carved up on fuel volumes by self-service competitors like Waitomo, NPD etc and aggressive pricing/lower cost must be squeezing retail fuel margins?? In Dunno's there are at least 8 of these stations that have appeared in recent years.....

On the plus side, many are sitting on prime real estate/sites, albeit expect they lease.

[Filthy]

I've noticed that car chargers are usually taken as more EVs hit the road, so if you need a charge outside (considering the average range of a lLeaf is only 200km) and you can't find a charger it's akin to looking for a toilet when you're busting. Of course, more chargers will be built over time, but installers have to balance demand with over-investment in infrastructure, so no one's going to build thousands of charging stations overnight.

would it be safe to assume that most middle class families have two cars? ......so I see it more as one car as the local runabout (charged overnight at home for cheap) i.e. the Leaf or whatever it is, & the other a larger ICE for the 2-3 long-distance drives they do when going on holiday (until more infrastructure is rolled out / as technology & range improves, at which point the 2nd car is upgraded). Most of the population don't drive 200km every day - maybe 60-70km? If every family upgrade one car to an EV in the next few years, EV growth is going to explode, regardless of the number of car chargers. Not to mention the pressure from Gen Z teenagers on parents to do something about climate change... there were some big protests about this not long ago don't forget.

[Antipodean]

Very interesting on the EV temperature issues. In addition to the detrimental effects on the battery itself, the increase in heating/AC (or in fact any other electrical system) is going to add on to those range issues. Compared to an ICE vehicle which can continually charge itself as it is operated, extra electronics like display screens, navigation, sensors, all add to the battery drain.

Disappointing that the various manufacturers are also not using interchangeable cells or universal charging interfaces. Also as an aside, in NZ RUCs are scheduled to be applied to light passenger vehicles from December this year.

Given age of NZ vehicle fleet, range and cost of EVs, EV limitations, NZ electrical grid and charger infrastructure, I don't see EV's replacing ICE en masse for a significant period of time.

[Zaphod]

From a purely economic perspective, an EV didn't make sense for us, and won't until the capital cost drops significantly. There are cars available that suit our day to day requirements that consume as little as 2.5-3L/100km, so the number of years it would take to recoup investment doesn't make sense.

As I've said over in the EV thread, if the government feel the need to drive adoption they need to stop mucking around with RUC exemptions and do something that actually drives adoption which is reduce the capital cost or encourage more favourable financing options. EV quotas will simply result in older cars being kept for longer periods of time. In the mean time, it would be useful to at least know that Z has a long term strategy for this emerging market.

Disc: Not a holder.

[Entrep]

Looking at the chart this is one very sick dog. Divi is suspended AFAIK too?

[Rawz]

Looking at the chart this is one very sick dog. Divi is suspended AFAIK too?

Yes it's grim. Dividends to resume latter this year in FH22. A lot of green, EV stuff in the media this week.

[Entrep]

Reason for the recent pronounced weakness? https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/124079047/the-government-will-not-hold-back-jacinda-ardern-on-how-nz-could-go-zero-carbon

[dreamcatcher]

Been rather grim SP movements lately.........

Be interesting to see details how NZ will pay for these wonderful zero-carbon changes or its bye Jacinda

[Baa_Baa]

Been rather grim SP movements lately.........

Be interesting to see details how NZ will pay for these wonderful zero-carbon changes or its bye Jacinda

It's not just lately, it's been on the slippery slope since the hey days above $8 in 2016, with a hammering last year from Covid and gradually heading back there again. Best to avoid stocks in prolonged down trends.

[dreamcatcher]

It's not just lately, it's been on the slippery slope since the hey days above $8 in 2016, with a hammering last year from Covid and gradually heading back there again. Best to avoid stocks in prolonged down trends.

Very true Baa_Baa I hung about too long now waiting for divvie getting reinstated or electric charging station added just simply airlines flying outside our borders could have positive outcomes here............

[Beagle]

It's not just lately, it's been on the slippery slope since the hey days above $8 in 2016, with a hammering last year from Covid and gradually heading back there again. Best to avoid stocks in prolonged down trends.

I couldn't agree more. Its too much hard work swimming against an outgoing tide.

[Baa_Baa]

I couldn't agree more. Its too much hard work swimming against an outgoing tide.

There are many more encouraging and rewarding companies to invest in, albeit the market overall is value_stretched, one can't understand why anyone would invest or hold a long term capital destruction, surely it's not just for dividends, when the capital lost massively exceeds the dividends earned?

[dreamcatcher]

There are many more encouraging and rewarding companies to invest in, albeit the market overall is value_stretched, one can't understand why anyone would invest or hold a long term capital destruction, surely it's not just for dividends, when the capital lost massively exceeds the dividends earned?

Thirty plus stocks with only 3 now showing red having held Zel for two years (not trading) Not holding for dividend but any dividend will move the needle as would any progress towards electrifying their stations assuming they wish to keep up with play. $3.90 break-even point so see no reason to suddenly sell taking a hefty loss. My other holdings have been (much) kinder............

[arekaywhy]

I couldn't agree more. Its too much hard work swimming against an outgoing tide.


Heh, I'm stuck in the rip!

Thankfully, only a small holding out of morbid curiosity and hope that I might claw some of my petrol money back, but this one is parked for the time-being.

I think it'll come back once Donkey Teeth decides to allow us out of our cage.

[Dumbarton]

Heh, I'm stuck in the rip!

Thankfully, only a small holding out of morbid curiosity and hope that I might claw some of my petrol money back, but this one is parked for the time-being.

I think it'll come back once Donkey Teeth decides to allow us out of our cage.


The personal abuse does you no credit:mad ;:

[bull....]

the announcement by z saying they got a dispute notice from NZR seemed to be the turning point in the recovery price wise + a number of govt announcements. changed the recovery narrative

[Beagle]

There are many more encouraging and rewarding companies to invest in, albeit the market overall is value_stretched, one can't understand why anyone would invest or hold a long term capital destruction, surely it's not just for dividends, when the capital lost massively exceeds the dividends earned?

Kingfish sold out quite a while back, unimpressed with management. I think management have totally dropped the ball. Mike Bennetts comes out with trite statements often beginning with "We welcome" this change or We welcome that change but what they have totally missed the opportunity with is welcoming and leading the charge with embracing adding EV charging facilities at all their service stations. If they had rolled out just one or two charging points at each of their service stations they would have dramatically lifted their store sales as consumers munched their way through tens of millions of dollars of (very high margin) snack food each year while waiting for their EV's to charge up.

They have the toilets, they have the coffee, they have the snack food, all that is missing was the foresight by management to embrace and welcome the future trend to EV's. What Mike Bennetts should have done is welcomed the change and embraced it putting in EV charging points in ALL their service stations. Investing $200K is really nothing more than a token effort https://www.driven.co.nz/news/z-shifts-up-a-gear-with-city-ev-chargers/

[Comyn]

I unfortunately was a holder of Z , last year I gave up and took a loss. Mike's conversations revolve around the topics of: he didn't want to be in the petrol industry, his two daughters, pies and coffee. It's never any substance.

I do wonder how much revenue they would make from EV charging though? Do you mean like a cafe and charging stations?

I think supermarkets, malls and fast food outlets will adopt the charging station in the future making it quite hard for a converted z stations to generate a profit. This may be a while away though, EV's need to come down in price for average joe to adopt.

[arekaywhy]

... may be a while away though, EV's need to come down in price for average joe to adopt.

that and the fact that we have an unreliable electrical grid. At least you know you can get around with fuel. There are many hurdles to jump before we need to worry about the size of the EV market. Never mind all of this signalling of virtue we get from the twats in Wellington.

[HCR20]

The question is, at what price does this stock become a buy??

[Habits]

Now looks better than ever at current prices. The vaccine is doing its job therefore jet fuel sales will probably resume soonish

Disc, bought extra on Friday

[stoploss]

Now looks better than ever at current prices. The vaccine is doing its job therefore jet fuel sales will probably resume soonish

Disc, bought extra on Friday
Just because something looks cheap doesn’t mean it can’t get cheaper . Air NZ CEO just said it’s going to take 10 years to get back to where they were pre Covid .

[Beagle]

Just because something looks cheap doesn’t mean it can’t get cheaper . Air NZ CEO just said it’s going to take 10 years to get back to where they were pre Covid .

Well before then we will see petrol and diesel sales starting to fall off due to EV's. In the meantime the minnows with their cheap unmanned stations will keep steading eroding Z's market share, year after year after year. Its just too hard to swim against an outgoing tide.

[HCR20]

Well before then we will see petrol and diesel sales starting to fall off due to EV's. In the meantime the minnows with their cheap unmanned stations will keep steading eroding Z's market share, year after year after year. Its just too hard to swim against an outgoing tide.

Way I see it only way forward is a complete revamp of business model. Similar to fuel stops in Asia, Z had the potential to leverage longish EV 'refueling' times to services such as children's playgrounds, entertainment, decent resturants, and maybe shopping. Imagine... You plug in your car and order your food. Food service timing is linked to charging times on your vehicle etc.

Risk is that this becomes the domain of malls etc and that petrol stations as we know them become obsolete.

[Waiuta]

I couldn't agree more re this company and I must admit I'm still holding hoping for a break even.
Their current add with a geriatric biker promoting their easy payment system leaves a lot to be desired. Motor bikes don't take great volumes and if it's pay as you go there's no add on whatsoever.
Z would be far better off showing a forecourt of boy racers, motorhomes and trucks with a bit of buzz rather than the current version.
COME ON Z..... LEAD THE WAY ON VOLUME AND ADD ON... YOUR SHAREHOLDERS WILL BENEFIT!

Kingfish sold out quite a while back, unimpressed with management. I think management have totally dropped the ball. Mike Bennetts comes out with trite statements often beginning with "We welcome" this change or We welcome that change but what they have totally missed the opportunity with is welcoming and leading the charge with embracing adding EV charging facilities at all their service stations. If they had rolled out just one or two charging points at each of their service stations they would have dramatically lifted their store sales as consumers munched their way through tens of millions of dollars of (very high margin) snack food each year while waiting for their EV's to charge up.

They have the toilets, they have the coffee, they have the snack food, all that is missing was the foresight by management to embrace and welcome the future trend to EV's. What Mike Bennetts should have done is welcomed the change and embraced it putting in EV charging points in ALL their service stations. Investing $200K is really nothing more than a token effort https://www.driven.co.nz/news/z-shifts-up-a-gear-with-city-ev-chargers/

[Zaphod]

Way I see it only way forward is a complete revamp of business model. Similar to fuel stops in Asia, Z had the potential to leverage longish EV 'refueling' times to services such as children's playgrounds, entertainment, decent resturants, and maybe shopping. Imagine... You plug in your car and order your food. Food service timing is linked to charging times on your vehicle etc.

Risk is that this becomes the domain of malls etc and that petrol stations as we know them become obsolete.

It's an interesting concept. IME one issue we had when investigating installation of a EV charger at a commercial property we own that contains a hospitality business, was that other sites similar to what we planned had found customers tended to buy a low-priced item and sit there talking for 1hr or more, thereby negating the churn required for the hospitality business to make decent profits. Add into the cost upgrading the road-side transformer (which would cost $250K for a 400KVa unit and we were required to pay 90% of that) and it became a non-starter for us.

[Getty]

Kingfish sold out quite a while back, unimpressed with management. I think management have totally dropped the ball. Mike Bennetts comes out with trite statements often beginning with "We welcome" this change or We welcome that change but what they have totally missed the opportunity with is welcoming and leading the charge with embracing adding EV charging facilities at all their service stations. If they had rolled out just one or two charging points at each of their service stations they would have dramatically lifted their store sales as consumers munched their way through tens of millions of dollars of (very high margin) snack food each year while waiting for their EV's to charge up.

They have the toilets, they have the coffee, they have the snack food, all that is missing was the foresight by management to embrace and welcome the future trend to EV's. What Mike Bennetts should have done is welcomed the change and embraced it putting in EV charging points in ALL their service stations. Investing $200K is really nothing more than a token effort https://www.driven.co.nz/news/z-shifts-up-a-gear-with-city-ev-chargers/

Re; "we welcome this change..."

I've learnt that is corporate speak for; 'Our sphincter has never been so tight, filled with fear and dread"

[Scrunch]

Re; "we welcome this change..."

I've learnt that is corporate speak for; 'Our sphincter has never been so tight, filled with fear and dread"

But is it a surprise. Write there brand a number if times closely and what do you get?

[dreamcatcher]

Interesting observation today 1 punter bought 8,576,477 Zel shares equaling $24 million and maybe not finished. They have put their money where their mouth is. Question for the smarties why would they do that. Just chum change or pin money or something else didn't even ask for a discount ?

[Baa_Baa]

Interesting observation today 1 punter bought 8,576,477 Zel shares equaling $24 million and maybe not finished. They have put their money where their mouth is. Question for the smarties why would they do that. Just chum change or pin money or something else didn't even ask for a discount ?

You could also look at it this way:

punters sold 8,576,477 Zel shares equaling $24 million and maybe not finished. They have put their money where their mouth is. Question for the smarties why would they do that.