TSK - TASK Group Holdings

[Monty]

Moosie I think you are missing a few key things
Like a 757% increase in revenue (albeit off a very low base)
the revenue seems to be based on income from the McDonalds Netherlands rollout. the Swedish rollout is a little more recent so will pay a dividend next year. But these two rollouts cover about 500 McDs through Europe. The rollout of McDs in Japan with 3200 restaurants will be significant. But I think this is about traction with McDonalds globally.

There is also another telling snipet. The CEO is relocating to the USA to accelerate US Market Entry. Crack that market and I believe that this will be the hottest share on the stock exchange.

my recommendation is to hold. I'm pleased I topped up a few weeks back.

[axe]

I like it.

62 Pages of shiny goodness.

Only one page of scant financials.

Operating revenue up 339K
Operating expenses up 707K

Cash on hand $5.6M.
Burn Rate Circa 500k per month.

11 Months until they are out of cash?????

[sommelier]

They can sell 25% more shares now before the end of the financial year because holders just ratified the previous issues. So capital raising could be even sooner.

[Schrodinger]

The slideshow was pretty amateur hour. Robbo and I could have outdone it no problem. Sorehead had a sore head while doing it?

Looked ok from my end Moosie. McDonalds and Microsoft are top level corporate partners and if the Japan roll out works McDs USA will want it. Maybe even global? The are huge opportunities for an off the shelf mobile retail solution. Considering they beat the best of the best for Japan there is a high chance this will scale nicely into 2015.

The cash burn is high but with circa $2m in rev this will likely shrink. Add in other NZ and USA contracts and it could get interesting.

[Mule]

I wonder if an SSH notice will appear... About 2% of the company changed hands a few days ago. Doesn't anything greater than 1% have to be declared? Must be still going through the system...

[sommelier]

Is this the highest value traded stock on the AX for two weeks in a row now? What is the share price up to... Smells...

[sommelier]

Notice of being awarded the Japan contract was 11th of August. Surely we can't be far from the promised announcement of the financial details... Order in at 1.2c because of course it will bounce. The last 12 months have shown this to be an easy trading stock but a poor holding stock.

[silverblizzard888]

Notice of being awarded the Japan contract was 11th of August. Surely we can't be far from the promised announcement of the financial details... Order in at 1.2c because of course it will bounce. The last 12 months have shown this to be an easy trading stock but a poor holding stock.

Yeah thats true, seems like it has likely been delayed due to the paper work. I'd agree too, this is a trading stock until it presents any solid revenues that can justify its price. Given this is the perception everywhere, a lot of holders will be day traders who will sell immediately after news is out and price is high, which in turn brings the price back down and we start all over again. Great prices at 1.2-1.4 though. I'd take this moment to also mention how important fundamentals are, as we can see with Snakk who have revenues, their rise and fall in price is much less because it has good revenues backing it, while VML does not and will be like this for a while. DOYR

[Leftfield]

From V Mob's Oct newsletter…."VMob’s ACMR has grown from $0.2m in FY14 to $2.1m currently, an increase of 1,091%"

DYOR

[Monty]

Is there no excitement with VMob? I would have thought the McDonalds Japan contract and the probable expansion into other McDonalds markets would have been cause for some excitement. What would it take for this share to grab the attention of the market. True this stock is still quite speculative but it does seem to be in an expansion mode.

Oh well maybe time to buy a few more

[Harvey Specter]

I'm a bit surprised aswell but I guess when 90% of your business comes from 1 contract, you cant put to much reliance on it.

[BFG]

Wonder where all the Wellington boys screaming it was penny dreadful of '14 went? They sure aren't buying!

[sommelier]

Someone knows something... Today was insane.

[BFG]

Someone knows something... Today was insane.

On a yearly chart the volume hardly rates. Small cap + illiquidity + macro environment tumble = volatility. Nothing new.

[youngatheart]

Anticipating Half Year Result this Friday. I feel I've picked the bottom of the SP.

[jonu]

Anticipating Half Year Result this Friday. I feel I've picked the bottom of the SP.

Is that going by last year's date, or did you see a release somwhere? I can' t see anything referring to it.

[Baa_Baa]

NZAX will require reporting on or before the end of November.

[Baa_Baa]

VMob Group Limited 2015 Interim Results Announcement
https://nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/258230


NZAX will require reporting on or before the end of November.

[Baa_Baa]

VMob results appear to have underwhelmed, if the share price is anything to go by.

Are there any FA's on deck that are willing to have a crack at analysing this ?
https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/258230

[Harvey Specter]

VMob results appear to have underwhelmed, if the share price is anything to go by.

They appear to be doing everything right (except building significant revenue - still only $500k!)

Edit: Cash burn means they will need to capital raise within 6 months!

[Schrodinger]

They appear to be doing everything right (except building significant revenue - still only $500k!)

Edit: Cash burn means they will need to capital raise within 6 months!

Did you see their latest ARR estimation in the Oct deck? They should hit at least $1.5m rev for 2015.I would expect the Japan launch to contribute.

Still trying to forecast this out as the ARR they were quoting was north of $5m

[Harvey Specter]

Per half year accounts, Annualised committed monthly revenue is only $415k which is less than their 6 month operating revenue ($502k) so they must still get a significant part of their income from set up.

But as you say, per their October update (https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/201783.pdf) just 7 days after the period the half year accounts are reflecting, Annualised committed monthly revenue has jumped to $2.12m. the difference must be the McDonalds contract which, even though signed and announced prior to end of september, they cant have been able to include in their September accounts.

[Baa_Baa]

Per half year accounts, Annualised committed monthly revenue is only $415k which is less than their 6 month operating revenue ($502k) so they must still get a significant part of their income from set up.

But as you say, per their October update (https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/201783.pdf) just 7 days after the period the half year accounts are reflecting, Annualised committed monthly revenue has jumped to $2.12m. the difference must be the McDonalds contract which, even though signed and announced prior to end of september, they cant have been able to include in their September accounts.

Ironically the November 1H report (Mar - Sept) is marked on NZX as 'price sensitive' while the 7th October market update was not, despite announcing the McDonalds Japan contract and ACM revenue jump to $2.12m -up over 1000%.

Disc: Accumulating

6557

[Harvey Specter]

For what its worth, Edison value at 3.8c : http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/serve_pdf.php?d=researchreports&f=vmob031214outlook.pdf

WACC looks low at 11%
Capital raise of $6m required at FY15 H2. Though if they can sign another big customer, that may not be required.

The key for them (and most companies) is they need to sign up new clients. Given they have a long led time, lets hope they are getting close to signing a few already.

[Baa_Baa]

For what its worth, Edison value at 3.8c : http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/serve_pdf.php?d=researchreports&f=vmob031214outlook.pdf

WACC looks low at 11%
Capital raise of $6m required at FY15 H2. Though if they can sign another big customer, that may not be required.

The key for them (and most companies) is they need to sign up new clients. Given they have a long led time, lets hope they are getting close to signing a few already.

Thanks Harvey, a good informative read.

[mikeybycrikey]

For what its worth, Edison value at 3.8c : http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/serve_pdf.php?d=researchreports&f=vmob031214outlook.pdf

WACC looks low at 11%
Capital raise of $6m required at FY15 H2. Though if they can sign another big customer, that may not be required.

The key for them (and most companies) is they need to sign up new clients. Given they have a long led time, lets hope they are getting close to signing a few already.

It should be noted that this is research commissioned by VMob and released by VMob so it's obviously going to paint them in a good light.

It's an interesting read but it would also pay to DYOR.

[Harvey Specter]

It should be noted that this is research commissioned by VMob and released by VMob so it's obviously going to paint them in a good light. True but Edison have a reputation to maintain. Same could be said for S&P ratings.

NOte that Edison have won the contract to provide research on all stocks on the new NXT exchange once it is up and running which will be worth much more than any single company can provide so maintaining their reputation is important.

Having said that, the market seems to have ignored them.

[mikeybycrikey]

True but Edison have a reputation to maintain. Same could be said for S&P ratings.

NOte that Edison have won the contract to provide research on all stocks on the new NXT exchange once it is up and running which will be worth much more than any single company can provide so maintaining their reputation is important.

Having said that, the market seems to have ignored them.

True, although considering that S&P ratings were gamed during in the lead-up to the GFC maybe it's not the best example of integrity.

I'm sure that Edison have done a thorough investigation of the company but for large parts of the document it feels more like an advertisement for VMob than a research paper. Although to be fair to Edison, it's useful for them to include a thorough description of what the company does.

VMob are certainly an interesting company. I'm considering sinking some money into them at the moment. Still not sure about it: it's obviously pretty risky.

[Harvey Specter]

I'm sure that Edison have done a thorough investigation of the company but for large parts of the document it feels more like an advertisement for VMob than a research paper. Although to be fair to Edison, it's useful for them to include a thorough description of what the company does. I'm sure they just cut and paste the boring bits (background, bio's etc) and spend their time on the important parts.

Even if you discount their price by 50%, it is still good buying now. Having said that, just wait for the expected capital raise which will probably push the price down again.

Disc: I bought (small) at the last capital raising so am sitting on a big loss. I think they are worth more than 1c but they need more sales to put any confidence in that.

[BFG]

Just look at the ratings and broker sentiment on AMZN on the NYSE to see the insanity which these guys predicate.

Tons of "Buys", "Outperforms" or "Holds" but no "Underperforms" or "Sells". This was when AMZN had a PE in the 1000s. It's now making huge losses which are only goung to get worse by their own reckoning next quarter. Ummm, did anyone forget to the tell the brokers that somehow?

In the world of reporting/estimates, Edison is rated slightly higher than Moaningstar. All ypu have to do is look at the whacked out range of estimates on PEB they put out, SNK being nowhere near what they are calling and upgrading LNG.AX from $1.10 to $1.40 after the price had gone soaring above $3.00. Call something on a ling enough timeline and you'll eventually get it right eh?!?!

[Harvey Specter]

Private capital raising of $2m at AUD 1c

Needed as cashburn gives them less than 3 month runway.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/205434.pdf

[mikeybycrikey]

Private capital raising of $2m at AUD 1c

Needed as cashburn gives them less than 3 month runway.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/205434.pdf

What's the point of only raising $2m? Won't that only buy them another three months?

The Edison report made it pretty clear they were going to have to raise $6m, so why are they trying to do it piecemeal? Are they hoping to get the share price up and raise money more cheaply next time?

[Harvey Specter]

What's the point of only raising $2m? Won't that only buy them another three months?

The Edison report made it pretty clear they were going to have to raise $6m, so why are they trying to do it piecemeal? Are they hoping to get the share price up and raise money more cheaply next time?Probably. If they can get some traction, they could do another general capital raise (one of the $15k capped ones) at a higher price. A couple more big contracts and some income flowing in from the Japan contract and the shareprice should hopefully recover.

[Schrodinger]

ACMR was $200K ($2.4M) vs $700K ($8.4M) burn on a monthly basis. I have the numbers right?

That being the case this looks good. Two new deployments should easily push ACMR above $3M. I think the management think the USA opportunity is worth going after. They still need to nail McDs Japan and then that will prove they can do big deployments. This is a key test for USA.

[Monty]

Like many I was trying to do the numbers - burn rate means that will have six months of funding - plus revenue in the bank over that time - maybe the McDonalds Japan and a couple of other contracts will see them right. $2m will be about 200m additional shares. I hope the faith pays dividends. those (like me) whop bought in as 2.7 cents in the last round might be a little miffed.

[Monty]

Another interesting announcement to the NZX about another Client. This time Anheuser Busch USA who have 47% of the market in USA. and 25% of the global market. They have annual revenue of $43b ($USD).

This year VMoB have secured some quite significant clients and there are no doubt more in the pipeline. Looking at the investor presentation the number of opportunities on the Nurture list has grown from virtually nothing to 800, and the number of opportunities has gone from zero to around 125. Bankable revenue has increased and is likely to continue to do so especially as the benefits of establishing in the USA materialise.

I believe that VMoB has a very exciting future - just needs to break away from that penny dreadful status.

[kizame]

Why doesn't this company do a consolidation of its shares,1.2 billion shares on issue and trading at .011.
Does it cost them too much to undertake?
I really can't see how it benefits them having their shares priced like a dog stock,surely it doesn't give a prospective investor much confidence.

[Monty]

I would think that a consolidation of shares could be a good thing. say 1 to 100 would mean the price per share is about $1. having a penny dreadful reputation cant be good at all

[Harvey Specter]

I'm guessing it because 1c is an effective floor on the price. If they do a 100:1 consolidation, the price could easily go under $1. My guess is they will wait till they have momentum before they consolidate (which they have advised they will do at some stage).

Wait till they have recurring revenues flowing in from the biggest fast food joint, the biggest beer company and one other biggest X and they will do it.

I just hope it finishes the year low as I picked it in the compitition ;)

[jonu]

I'm guessing it because 1c is an effective floor on the price. If they do a 100:1 consolidation, the price could easily go under $1. My guess is they will wait till they have momentum before they consolidate (which they have advised they will do at some stage).

Wait till they have recurring revenues flowing in from the biggest fast food joint, the biggest beer company and one other biggest X and they will do it.

I just hope it finishes the year low as I picked it in the compitition ;)

My thoughts too Harvey. Doing a consolidation too early could easily lead to a halving of m/cap, with the price just drifting down on a lack of positive news.

[Monty]

I understand they are still making a loss (and hopefully this will turn around in foreseeable future)
but the revenue definitely seems to be increasing. Japan McDonalds is due for implementation in the next few months. It must be a reasonable proposition that this little company does seem to have the attention of McDonalds and id hope to see more announcements with further McDonalds markets secured in the coming months. (Logic says more penetration into Asia and Europe)

ANd reading though their investment statement I have some hope we will see some announcement due to their relationship with Microsoft Azure.

VMoB only has a market Cap of some $15m. with the traction now being achieved, I believe this is a company that will start to show something in 2015. (I was hoping it was 2014)

[Baa_Baa]

Thanks VML for a nice 27% pop today, the last day of 2014. Bring it on in 2015! Happy new year to all. 😃

[Harvey Specter]

Thanks VML for a nice 27% pop today, the last day of 2014. Bring it on in 2015! Happy new year to all. 😃very annoying for those that picked it in the Comp. 27% taken off the table at the last minute.

[BFG]

very annoying for those that picked it in the Comp. 27% taken off the table at the last minute.

Nice window dressing to end the year eh? Wonder if one of our Wellington boys who called it "the penny stock of 2014" needed to save some face eh?

[Baa_Baa]

Nice window dressing to end the year eh? Wonder if one of our Wellington boys who called it "the penny stock of 2014" needed to save some face eh?

Well it was only just a penny stock in 2014, almost less than a penny! Ha ha. Perfect ... for accumulating a healthy position on excellent results from VML throughout the year. The "wellington boys penny stock" drum is perhaps the least insightful comment I've read, sort of clutching at straws - kind of hoping it doesn't do well - like not owning it but bagging it anyway, but if it helps to suppress the price just a bit longer, keep it up.

:t_up:

[BFG]

Well it was only just a penny stock in 2014, almost less than a penny! Ha ha. Perfect ... for accumulating a healthy position on excellent results from VML throughout the year. The "wellington boys penny stock" drum is perhaps the least insightful comment I've read, sort of clutching at straws - kind of hoping it doesn't do well - like not owning it but bagging it anyway, but if it helps to suppress the price just a bit longer, keep it up.

:t_up:

Not bagging it, just saying what I see and why (I believe) someone would make the SP jump 40% in 2 days on no news. We all know who is in heavy on this stock and it doesn't surprise me at all.

[BFG]

Anyone know who Parnell Equities is that holds 1.13% as per the FY report? Can't find them anywhere. I'm pretty sure that's something that needs to be fixed if incorrect...

[Harvey Specter]

Anyone know who Parnell Equities is that holds 1.13% as per the FY report? Can't find them anywhere. I'm pretty sure that's something that needs to be fixed if incorrect...could be an overseas company. No need for overseas company to be registered on companies office site.

[Baa_Baa]

Not bagging it, just saying what I see and why (I believe) someone would make the SP jump 40% in 2 days on no news. We all know who is in heavy on this stock and it doesn't surprise me at all.

Hey BFG, please enlighten us on "who is in heavy on this stock" and why it "doesn't surprise" you, and if you don't mind - whether it's an issue we should be mindful of. Many thanks, much appreciated.

[Baa_Baa]

very annoying for those that picked it in the Comp. 27% taken off the table at the last minute.

Ha, there's a truth Harvey. 8th to LAST for me in the ST picking contest on day 2 LOL, on the back of VML. Never mind, VML will do great.

I'm looking forward to some excellent new prospects/customer news in due course following this https://nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/259683 (for those that are interested but may have missed the media release today).

[BFG]

Hey BFG, please enlighten us on "who is in heavy on this stock" and why it "doesn't surprise" you, and if you don't mind - whether it's an issue we should be mindful of. Many thanks, much appreciated.

Why none other than Sorehead, seller of the good ol' Snakk oil, TruScreen (for suckers) and PlusSMS(cam)!

[Baa_Baa]

A very interesting and encouraging article from Microsoft, on VMob technology, http://blogs.microsoft.com/iot/2015/01/12/boosting-retail-sales-with-iot-powered-customer-engagement/ ... with some incredible statistics that lend confidence as to the future successes VML seem certain to enjoy, such as ...

"McDonald’s in Sweden has seen a 700 percent increase in offer redemptions, and customers using the app are returning to stores twice as often and spending 47 percent more."

and ... "New Zealand-based VMob (http://www.vmob.co/) is [helping] McDonald’s transform its customer engagement in the Netherlands, Sweden and Japan, regions that represent about 12 percent of the food service retailer’s locations worldwide"

... or put another way, 88% of MacDonalds worldwide will be wanting a piece of that action!

This is a good way to keep up with the VML news https://www.linkedin.com/company/1192801

[disc: still accumulating VML]

[Baa_Baa]

VMob's solutions are right in the sweet spot of mobile marketing:"Top 3 Technology Trends Marketers Should Watch In 2015" http://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/top-3-

VMob ticks all three boxes.

Anticipating some great news on prospects arising from the NRF-National Retail Federation 2015 conference.

[Mule]

Here's some good news https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260004. I was expecting a USA agreement coming up next but they have done one better and gone global!

I wonder if there is anyhthing in their McDonalds agreements which prevents Vmob from deploying the same technology to their competitors, KFC, BK etc..., does anyone have any inside info on that? If it works so well for McDonalds and gives them the edge the other fast food outlets would want a slice of the action as well.

[Baa_Baa]

Fantastic news, global McDonalds, much better than expected! Well done VMob, an excellent development, it opens up the 80% of McDonalds that VMob don't already have - 400% increase in opportunity. USA would have been exciting for sure, Global McDonalds is tremendous. The last paragraph is also very encouraging (as is the bid / ask this morning) :)

"VMob is ideally positioned to provide its unique software platform and services to benefit similar clients around the world."


Here's some good news https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260004. I was expecting a USA agreement coming up next but they have done one better and gone global!

I wonder if there is anyhthing in their McDonalds agreements which prevents Vmob from deploying the same technology to their competitors, KFC, BK etc..., does anyone have any inside info on that? If it works so well for McDonalds and gives them the edge the other fast food outlets would want a slice of the action as well.

[BFG]

A word of warning to all (yes, history is relevant and does teach us lessons!).The VMob announcement this morning is interesting. On the face of it, it’s great news for a small company that has promised much for a long time.

However, many of the same investors/actors in VML were the same people in Plus SMS, which had a history of ramping news to sell down at big profit while dupes piled in. It all came to a big crash when they acknowledged that their market announcements bore little relationship with actual likelihood of revenue.


Mobile marketing 2006 vs mobile marketing in 2015… so what will be the difference? I am not saying that VML won't make it, I'm just saying exercise caution here and remember who you are dealing with...

[Baa_Baa]

Well if nothing else BFG, you are reliably repetitive, like a broken record. Anyone would think you have a vested interest in VMob, but you don't do you?, they can read your warning posts that follow every positive post on here. Oh, we know, you do it out of the goodness of your heart, to save us from ourselves and the boogiemen who you despise so intensely. Fortunately those boogiemen don't have your real name or you'd probably be wrestling a defamation suit. It's easy to hide behind a nom-de-plume. There's no need to keep re-writing your story, just post links to all the similar posts that you've deposited throughout ShareTrader. In the meantime, some may be happy for VMob's success today and the future.

[robbo24]

Well if nothing else BFG, you are reliably repetitive, like a broken record. Anyone would think you have a vested interest in VMob, but you don't do you?, they can read your warning posts that follow every positive post on here. Oh, we know, you do it out of the goodness of your heart, to save us from ourselves and the boogiemen who you despise so intensely. Fortunately those boogiemen don't have your real name or you'd probably be wrestling a defamation suit. It's easy to hide behind a nom-de-plume. There's no need to keep re-writing your story, just post links to all the similar posts that you've deposited throughout ShareTrader. In the meantime, some may be happy for VMob's success today and the future.

For such an amazing announcement, there isn't that much buying going on... 3.4m shares traded out of 1,263,268,816.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Is that you throwing your loose change at it Baa_Baa? :D:D:D:D:D

[The Real Bud Fox]

The McD's announcement can only open up more doors one would think.

[Baa_Baa]

I'd love to have more robbo but its already fully weighted in my portfolio. 😉

[jonu]

What a bugger of a day to announce it. Auckland Anniversary day and didn't check my messages/market until 11am. Once Auckland wakes up to it more sellers might come out, so there could be a pull back. Mind you, might bring in more buyers!

[Monty]

This can only been great news about VMob securing an international contract with McDonalds and the team from VMob are to be congratulated in securing this holy grail of contracts. I think NZ does not understand the scale of how big McDonalds really is. everyday McDonalds serves 68m customers. They have 35,000 outlets globally. Annual revenues are $27.5b. In China there are 200 restaurants opening each year. McDonald's feed 1% of the world population everyday.

obviously we are not being informed of the commercial aspects of the deal, but in the USA there are 14,267 restaurants outlets.(as at 2013). With Immediate roll out of the USA tranche there will be considerable upside on the financials. As news of this contract broadens I will expect to see VMob finally break away from its penny dreadful status.

[BFG]

Well if nothing else BFG, you are reliably repetitive, like a broken record. Anyone would think you have a vested interest in VMob, but you don't do you?, they can read your warning posts that follow every positive post on here. Oh, we know, you do it out of the goodness of your heart, to save us from ourselves and the boogiemen who you despise so intensely. Fortunately those boogiemen don't have your real name or you'd probably be wrestling a defamation suit. It's easy to hide behind a nom-de-plume. There's no need to keep re-writing your story, just post links to all the similar posts that you've deposited throughout ShareTrader. In the meantime, some may be happy for VMob's success today and the future.

BB, I could have been a lot nastier and spiteful than that, but I chose not to be. I am just telling traders/holders to do their homework and look at the history of the people involved with this. These guys know who I am anyways; I am not as anonymous as you think I am (if you're near Palmy you can in fact come say hi on Friday night!)

If they make it, good on them for giving it a go. In the meantime, I suggest caution.

That is all, I'll leave you alone now.

[KiwiGekko]

... and just like that 8 of the top 10 are people who picked VML in Stocktastic for 2015. I wonder if it will hold.

[The Real Bud Fox]

Commercial sensitivities of the contract aside, it's a shame there's not at least a revenue number attached. We don't need to know VML's margin on the contract but anything to quantify how large a deal it is would reassure market sceptics, etc.

If it's as good as what it appears, it may well be timely for a share consolidation to remove the penny-dreadful perception and status.

[Harvey Specter]

Yea ha - not even my other crap picks in the comp can hold me back.

Great announcement. A bit sceptical - if they knew they were close, why do a capital raise just two months ago.

[Schrodinger]

You are talking big numbers if the system works like it did in Europe. More disclosure on revenue metrics would be nice. They had a bullish ARR figure announcement a few months back which possibly mean this company is highly undervalued.

[noodles]

You are talking big numbers if the system works like it did in Europe. More disclosure on revenue metrics would be nice. They had a bullish ARR figure announcement a few months back which possibly mean this company is highly undervalued.
I wonder if they told revenue numbers to the "high net worth individuals, institutions and certain VMob directors" who just stumped up $3mill at 1c in the placement?

[Monty]

You are talking big numbers if the system works like it did in Europe. More disclosure on revenue metrics would be nice. They had a bullish ARR figure announcement a few months back which possibly mean this company is highly undervalued.

I see that there has been a second announcement of 205m shares being issued at a very nominal rate and those investors are now up 100% on their investment. Good on them. I will now be interested to see any financial reforecasts by the likes of Edison who forcastr revenue based on known contracts of around $2.2m in the 2015 year. re-forecast must now be required.

[Harvey Specter]

I wonder if they told revenue numbers to the "high net worth individuals, institutions and certain VMob directors" who just stumped up $3mill at 1c in the placement?
Exactly. With today's announcement, a SPP would easily have been oversubscribed.

[noodles]

I see that there has been a second announcement of 205m shares being issued at a very nominal rate and those investors are now up 100% on their investment. Good on them. I will now be interested to see any financial reforecasts by the likes of Edison who forcastr revenue based on known contracts of around $2.2m in the 2015 year. re-forecast must now be required.
Good on them??? As a ordinary shareholder, you have just been screwed.

What do you think will happen to the share price when those 1c shares are allotted?

[BFG]

Good on them??? As a ordinary shareholder, you have just been screwed.

What do you think will happen to the share price when those 1c shares are allotted?

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3793737

Read my warning lower down.

These guys have impeccable timing eh?

DYOR

[Schrodinger]

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3793737

Read my warning lower down.

These guys have impeccable timing eh?

DYOR

A few would be long termers too. Maybe thats their "reward" for providing equity?

[noodles]

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3793737

Read my warning lower down.

These guys have impeccable timing eh?

DYOR
Agreed. Both announcements should have been made at once to give prospectus shareholders and those wishing to add the full picture.

[robbo24]

A few would be long termers too. Maybe thats their "reward" for providing equity?

That is SO awesome for those private placement investors. BFG is just being cynical, there's certainly no way that any reasonably above board company would possibly announce a confidential agreement (which, of course, details of which cannot be disclosed) with McDonalds the next trading day after some big boys get their shares... I wonder how many of the trades today on the way up were people actually interested in the prospects of the company... Where will it close? :D:D:D:D:D

Surely no reasonably astute FA investor would randomly throw their money at VML on a confidential agreement THAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW ABOUT.

Congrats to the big boys :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Hard luck for the rest of you.

P.S - BFG was right, have fun on the sell down.

[Bobcat.]

Put yourself in the shoes of one of the pivileged few, even if you are sitting on a 100% paper profit, wouldn't you want to wait until this news hits the papers, after AKL's anniversary holiday, before taking some profit? I would, which is why I'm waiting until sometime tomorrow before selling down.

[BFG]

Suggest we all take a look at the announcement from today again (the 1:37pm one):

VMob is pleased to advise that after the close of business on 23 January 2015 it successfully completed a private placement of 205,137,771 ordinary shares at AU$0.01/NZ$0.0106 per share, raising $NZ2,174,166 million. The capital raising was undertaken in both New Zealand and Australia and was supported by a mixture of high net worth individuals, institutions and certain VMob directors.


......A mixture of high net worth investors, institutions and certain VMob directors.

This is even dodgier than I first thought. Quite blatant and disregarding of the rules of the NZX as well.

If I was a holder I wouldn't want to have any part in this company whatsoever after today. :eek2::eek2::eek2:

[robbo24]

Quite blatant and disregarding of the rules of the NZX as well.

Which one?

[Baa_Baa]

Which one?

What, broken only one rule! Surely they've broken every rule in the book and every bone in the small investors puny bodies. Only up 118% today. Crikey, what a disappointment.

Oh well, you can still buy them at 0.024 tomorrow, before the Aucklanders realise what's happened while they were sunning themselves today. That's if you're not a bit busy reporting them to the Shareholders Association and the FMA and whoever else will listen.

Just funning ya.
;):eek2:

[KiwiGekko]

......A mixture of high net worth investors, institutions and certain VMob directors.


I spotted this & was waiting for someone other than you to say something as I agree this is a really, really bad look. The way this has played out certainly seems like a nice way to line your pockets hey? Simply raise capital with prior knowledge of a big contract, then as soon as it is closed announce the contract then sit back and watch the money roll in. Where do I sign up? It all seems too easy.

Also any thoughts on why a company based in Auckland would announce this on a public holiday?

Disc: Not holding - just watching with interest.

[sommelier]

We've known about the capital raising since December 11. The sort of company that makes this sort of announcement on Auckland anniversary day is the sort of company that releases price sensitive information as soon as possible. The 'certain vmob directors' is no doubt your everyday 'let's show them we are in too' that management are always trying to get across. Vmob is probably the only global McDonalds supplier of ANYTHING that has an mcap of NZ$30m. Holding. Obviously wish I'd grabbed more at 10am.

[Xerof]

Those of you on the outside looking in need to remember these guys are smart, sharp, and know the limits, but they are certainly not stupid. If FMA or NZX were prompted to take a look, for certain, the ink would have only dried on the formal agreement on Friday USA time. Posturing/protesting will get you nowhere IMO

Don't hold, won't hold, for similar reasons to moosies continuous monotonous drone:sleep:

[Baa_Baa]

You didn't want a part of the company ages ago BFG, so this is hardly the tipping point, and considering you're not a holder, you seem to want to have a part of this everyday.

I think we've got the message, you've made yourself clear. You even said today you'd leave it alone, though admittedly you didn't say for how long, so for a couple of hours it was quite peaceful watching the price rise.

In all seriousness BFG, I don't mean to diminish your enthusiasm for justice and admire your passion for the rights of shareholders. You may even be correct! Do you think it's worth taking up the cause and reporting this blatant manipulation and devious plotting to the SA and the FMA?

Meanwhile, some of us will be cracking open a nice bottle tonight and celebrating VMob's outstanding achievements winning the McDonalds Global contract, and of course a nice reward for supporting the company.


If I was a holder I wouldn't want to have any part in this company whatsoever after today. :eek2::eek2::eek2:

[BFG]

Those of you on the outside looking in need to remember these guys are smart, sharp, and know the limits, but they are certainly not stupid. If FMA or NZX were prompted to take a look, for certain, the ink would have only dried on the formal agreement on Friday USA time. Posturing/protesting will get you nowhere IMO

Don't hold, won't hold, for similar reasons to moosies continuous monotonous drone:sleep:

It appears Mr Joyce certainly earns his keep for these kind of companies.

Baa Baa, good to know what side of the ledger you are on. Profits at any/all costs eh? Remember, you haven't made a dime until you hit the sell button ;)

Don't worry, there are interested parties in todays actions. Stay tuned.

Until then... :)

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Surely raising over two trillion dollars was overkill?

[Baa_Baa]

Well, to suggest I have no values is a long bow drawn too far. The difference in our perspectives I think BFG is:

My focus -- that VMob have an awesome product, perfect market timing, great management, excellent customers and huge potential, that's why I bought into the company. I've waited a long time to achieve an average buy-in 0.013, so that's not too far above the blessed few, apparently.

Your focus -- while you graciously acknowledge some of the virtues above, your fixation on the perceived or real skulduggery of 'certain directors', has not only removed you from any possibility of sharing in this company, but is further embittering you towards the directors and their apparent behaviours that in all likelihood you can do nothing about.

By not fixating on the things I cannot change, does not put me on the "side of the ledger" of "profits at all costs". For heavens sake man, your crusade may be well intentioned but maybe you could start a new thread ... something like "Crucify the corrupt directors" ... and then you and everyone who is equally upset as you can post there.

Meanwhile, I'll take my chances that VMob is outrageously successful simply because it is as I said above.


snip ... Baa Baa, good to know what side of the ledger you are on. Profits at any/all costs eh? Don't worry, there are interested parties in todays actions. Stay tuned ... snip

[Schrodinger]

What, broken only one rule! Surely they've broken every rule in the book and every bone in the small investors puny bodies. Only up 118% today. Crikey, what a disappointment.

Oh well, you can still buy them at 0.024 tomorrow, before the Aucklanders realise what's happened while they were sunning themselves today. That's if you're not a bit busy reporting them to the Shareholders Association and the FMA and whoever else will listen.

Just funning ya.
;):eek2:

No excuse, a true investor would be checking his stocks while swimming and tanning.

[BFG]

Well, to suggest I have no values is a long bow drawn too far. The difference in our perspectives I think BFG is:

My focus -- that VMob have an awesome product, perfect market timing, great management, excellent customers and huge potential, that's why I bought into the company. I've waited a long time to achieve an average buy-in 0.013, so that's not too far above the blessed few, apparently.

Your focus -- while you graciously acknowledge some of the virtues above, your fixation on the perceived or real skulduggery of 'certain directors', has not only removed you from any possibility of sharing in this company, but is further embittering you towards the directors and their apparent behaviours that in all likelihood you can do nothing about.

By not fixating on the things I cannot change, does not put me on the "side of the ledger" of "profits at all costs". For heavens sake man, your crusade may be well intentioned but maybe you could start a new thread ... something like "Crucify the corrupt directors" ... and then you and everyone who is equally upset as you can post there.

Meanwhile, I'll take my chances that VMob is outrageously successful simply because it is as I said above.

If you are the good man that you say you are then you won't mind me applying this quote to you:

"The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

I have no qualms about calling a spade a spade. Suggest you think about your holding in VML tonight ;)

[Harvey Specter]

We've known about the capital raising since December 11. The sort of company that makes this sort of announcement on Auckland anniversary day is the sort of company that releases price sensitive information as soon as possible. The 'certain vmob directors' is no doubt your everyday 'let's show them we are in too' that management are always trying to get across. Vmob is probably the only global McDonalds supplier of ANYTHING that has an mcap of NZ$30m. Holding. Obviously wish I'd grabbed more at 10am.and they would have been negotiating the McD contract before that. My opinion is we have a good company tainted by dodgy directors. Isn't 1c the lowest it's been in he past 12 months. Yet they don't do a SPP like they have done previously.

[Baa_Baa]

If you are the good man that you say you are then you won't mind me applying this quote to you:

"The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

I have no qualms about calling a spade a spade. Suggest you think about your holding in VML tonight ;)

Thanks BFG you're too kind ... oh, hang on ... for a moment I thought you said I was a good man, then I saw the 'If'.

Fancy that, questioning my values, principles, character and integrity, all in one day! Perhaps you have confused me with one of the directors you hate so much, instead of a regular guy trying to make a buck on the sharemarket. I hope not, but I think so, because you have insulted not only me but everyone who has the temerity to own VML as well.

And to toss out an Edmund Burke quote, without attribution, says more about you than me.

Stooping to new lows is unbecoming, though perhaps not unexpected, however I wish you all the best in rooting out the evil you so desperately seek, though will undoubtedly try and use others to execute for you, as no one at the FMA that I know would give you the time of day.

I know this won't be your last word on it, but it is my last word, on this .. to you.

All the best,
BAA

[mikeybycrikey]

Stooping to new lows is unbecoming, though perhaps not unexpected, however I wish you all the best in rooting out the evil you so desperately seek, though will undoubtedly try and use others to execute for you, as no one at the FMA that I know would give you the time of day.

I'm in two minds about this.

Firstly, VML was running desperately short of money and several weeks ago when they announced the share placement at 1 Australian cent, I wasn't even sure they would get money then. A lot has changed since then with the McDonalds Global announcement.

However, it seems odd that they couldn't put off the share placement by a few days when this contract announcement became imminent. It had already been delayed once (on Dec 23). It certainly rings alarm bells for me. 1 cps now appears that it might be cheap in which case they could've got away with selling half as many shares. This has been a capital transfer from current shareholders to the new shareholders (including the directors).

Maybe the directors were committed to share placement before the news of the McDonalds deal came to light. But it's not enough to do the right thing: they need to be seen to be doing the right thing.

This whole deal feels a little fishy. Directors enriching themselves at the expense of shareholders. The $2,174,166 invested is now worth almost $5 million. Pretty easy work if you can get it.

[robbo24]

They certainly could have extended the cap raising for the benefit of loyal holders like baa baa. There is absolutely no prohibition on doing so.

Baa baa black black sheep has 3 bags of something...

[winner69]

BFG, you a bit unfair making judgement on BaaBaa morals/values

Have you considered that BaaBaa isn't really an investor in VML. BB hasn't put in cash into VML (yet), rather BB is just trading prices of a ticker code.

You seem to make out that BB by trading VML prices has associated himself with those 'dodgy' promoters of VML.

I don't see BB as an 'owner' of VML, BB just trading prices and taking advantage of what is happening in the market (on a considered basis). Isn't that what you do with other ticker codes, you never think of yourself as an 'owner'

If BB needs to think about his 'involvement' in VML don't you need to think about your own ' involvement' in trading prices.

Go for it BB - make zillions from VML

[Xerof]

I was passed by Moosie this morning, he said he was on his way to see the guys at the FMA


6711

[youngatheart]

Isn't this the dilemma with those 10 baggers in the past though? You can't quite believe what's happening with the shareprice and then when you think you've figured it out its pretty much too late? Why not just chuck a free $1000 at it and if its wrong it`ll drop to being $500 (as the price so far had only doubled since announcement) or it could be $10,000 this time next year... just don't go overboard but keep a toe in the water so you don't miss out...

[robbo24]

Those buy orders are looking pretty thin... I wonder if the directors are going to take their big windfall and sell down :D I guess it depends on their inside knowledge of the secret contents of the McD's agreement :D:D:D

[robbo24]

And so concludes the good ol' fashioned pump and/or dump - nothing to see here, move along...

:D:D:D:D:D

[Harvey Specter]

Looks like my comment on the NBR went through moderation. The second sentence re dodgy directors has mysteriously disappeared.

[BFG]

I was passed by Moosie this morning, he said he was on his way to see the guys at the FMA


6711

My God, where can I get a suit like that?!?!

Baa Baa, ok fair enough, too quick to judge maybe, but analyse your words for a bit and see how they might be interpreted by someone who places ethics and actions of company insiders above profits.

I'll stop here and reserve judgement for when I meet you one day over several large beers (8%ers if Robbo is present) :D

[robbo24]

Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11393024

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Schrodinger]

Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11393024

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Looks like a tempting buy opportunity @1.6...

[BFG]

Looks like a tempting buy opportunity @1.6...

Oh yes, oh so tempting with FMA all over them...

Careful out there people ;)

[Bobcat.]

Sold down yesterday and back in this afternoon. A 50% swing trade makes this one a darling for traders.

[youngatheart]

Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11393024

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

"It's understood that the VMob directors participating in the placement were existing shareholders, chairman Phil Norman and founder and managing director Scott Bradley."

...So those most in-the-know participated in the placement. So why would they do that unless one suspects that there is more good news yet to come...

[robbo24]

"It's understood that the VMob directors participating in the placement were existing shareholders, chairman Phil Norman and founder and managing director Scott Bradley."

...So those most in-the-know participated in the placement. So why would they do that unless one suspects that there is more good news yet to come...

Because their cash burn means to keep their jobs they have to pay back into the company? :D:D:D:D

And they get their money back short and sweet... :D:D:D:D:D

[Harvey Specter]

"It's understood that the VMob directors participating in the placement were existing shareholders, chairman Phil Norman and founder and managing director Scott Bradley."

...So those most in-the-know participated in the placement. So why would they do that unless one suspects that there is more good news yet to come...While I think this whole thing looks dodgy, to be fair they probably committed more funds very early on in the process (though they were no doubt negotiating with McD at the time).

If you want to be a real conspiracy theorist, you could suggest they only closed the round once they knew they had the McD contract in the bag.

[robbo24]

While I think this whole thing looks dodgy, to be fair they probably committed more funds very early on in the process (though they were no doubt negotiating with McD at the time).

If you want to be a real conspiracy theorist, you could suggest they only closed the round once they knew they had the McD contract in the bag.

Yeah I bet then the capital raising would have been oversubscribed :D:D:D:D

Would've made a lot more sense given the alleged need for capital...

[youngatheart]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260114

[youngatheart]

Particularly like the last paragraph... "VMob remains focussed on implementing the recently announced global agreement with McDonalds and executing further deals in its pipeline as it continues on its growth path."

[Schrodinger]

Particularly like the last paragraph... "VMob remains focussed on implementing the recently announced global agreement with McDonalds and executing further deals in its pipeline as it continues on its growth path."

The timing was always going to be delicate due to several factors converging at the same time.

Given that all listed companies would consult legal on matters such as this I don't really have a problem with it. The main interest is the 1c valuation v 1.5-2c+ for previous raises (need to check). Sure the company could nominate any figure if the SH were willing to stump up the cash, but some information regarding this valuation is what most people are interested in.

Thinking deeper I would guess this figure was directly related to the SP around when the raise was happening 1.2c. Not sure though.

Either way the company is currently massively undervalued due to a GLOBAL multinational contract-imo.

[Harvey Specter]

The announcement pretty much states that there is no insider trading because (technically) there is no insider trading laws with private placements.


Given that all listed companies would consult legal on matters such as this I don't really have a problem with it. The main interest is the 1c valuation v 1.5-2c+ for previous raises (need to check). Sure the company could nominate any figure if the SH were willing to stump up the cash, but some information regarding this valuation is what most people are interested in.I think this is the issue. Given what the directors knew, was a capital raise at 1c in the best interests of the company. So potentially not only did they breach their fiduciary duty to shareholders, they took advantage personally of that breach. If they did a SPP at 1c as well as the placement to large investors, this would have been mitigated.

[robbo24]

The announcement pretty much states that there is no insider trading because (technically) there is no insider trading laws with private placements.

I think this is the issue. Given what the directors knew, was a capital raise at 1c in the best interests of the company. So potentially not only did they breach their fiduciary duty to shareholders, they took advantage personally of that breach. If they did a SPP at 1c as well as the placement to large investors, this would have been mitigated.

I wonder what definition of "eligible persons" they use in their announcement on 11 December 2014 (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3771910), which says:

The offer to be made by VMob will only be available to eligible persons in New Zealand and sophisticated investors in Australia.

Because if it's the definition of "eligible persons" in s 8(2) of the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4092389.html?search=qs_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_%22eligible+persons%22_resel_25_h&p=1)[to which the company refers to in its announcement today (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3795601)] then the definition suggests to me that the offer was only made to the directors and employees :D:

Section 8 (2)
In this clause eligible person—(a) means an employee or a director of the issuer of the specified financial products or of any of its subsidiaries; and
(b) includes a person who provides personal services (other than as an employee) principally to the issuer of the specified financial products or any of its subsidiaries

Jolly good fun! :D:D:D:D

[BFG]

I wonder what definition of "eligible persons" they use in their announcement on 11 December 2014 (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3771910), which says:


Because if it's the definition of "eligible persons" in s 8(2) of the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4092389.html?search=qs_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_%22eligible+persons%22_resel_25_h&p=1)[to which the company refers to in its announcement today (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3795601)] then the definition suggests to me that the offer was only made to the directors and employees :D:


Jolly good fun! :D:D:D:D

Cheers for that Rob.

Heads they win, tails you lose. It may nit be illegal but sure isn't ethical is it now? And if these guys aren't playing by the same rules, what chance do the small guys have?

As I said before, Sean Joyce is well compensated for all this and knows how close they can sail to the wind...

[mikeybycrikey]

That didn't do much to clear up any "market speculation" about insider trading.

It doesn't really confirm that there wasn't inside knowledge and sort of says that "it wasn't illegal so what are you going to do about it"?

[Schrodinger]

That didn't do much to clear up any "market speculation" about insider trading.

It doesn't really confirm that there wasn't inside knowledge and sort of says that "it wasn't illegal so what are you going to do about it"?


Well technically its irrelevant if no laws were broken. You either did or you didn't there's no grey area.

Moosie when has ethics trumped profits in business?

Board to CEO> gee we think you are a nice guy good work! or you made us lots of money...???

[Harvey Specter]

I wonder what definition of "eligible persons" they use in their announcement on 11 December 2014 (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3771910), Eligble investor (from an angle investor perspective which I am pretty sure is the same) is generally one that has investments over $2m, income over $200k for the past 2 years, is in the business of investing, or knows the investee. So basically HNWI and their friends.

[robbo24]

Cheers for that Rob.

Let's take it a bit further too...

Clause 20 of Schedule 1 of the Financial Markets Conduct Regulations 2014, entitled "Insider Trading" says:

Clause 8 - Insider trading
(1) During the transitional period, sections 241 to 243 of the Act do not apply to a trade of a financial product if the trade is an acquisition of the financial product by way of issue.
(2) Subclause (1) does not apply to an acquisition of financial products under an offer made in reliance on clause 19 of Schedule 1 of the Act.

Regulation 2 of the Financial Markets Conduct Regulations 2014 (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2014/0326/latest/DLM6293763.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_financial+market+regulations_resel_25_ a&p=1) defines the "transitional period" as:

transitional period means the period starting on the commencement of these regulations and ending on the close of 30 November 2016.

So we can say from the announcement that the company relies on the fact that ss 241 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4091310.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_financial+market+regulations_resel_25_ a&p=1), 242 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4091312.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_financial+market+regulations_resel_25_ a&p=1) and 243 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4091319.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation% 40deemedreg_financial+market+regulations_resel_25_ a&p=1) would otherwise apply but for the transitional period. Let's take a look at what ss 241-243 say:

Section 241 - Information insider must not trade
(1) An information insider of a listed issuer must not trade quoted financial products of the listed issuer.
(2) An information insider in relation to quoted derivatives must not trade the derivatives.
(3) In this subpart and subpart 3, trade—
(a) means acquire or dispose of; but
(b) does not include acquire, or dispose of, by inheritance or gift.


Section 242 - Information insider must not disclose inside information
(1) An information insider (A) of a listed issuer must not directly or indirectly disclose inside information to another person (B) if A knows or ought reasonably to know or believes that B will, or is likely to,—
(a) trade quoted financial products of the listed issuer; or
(b) advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold those products.
(2) An information insider (A) in relation to quoted derivatives must not directly or indirectly disclose inside information to another person (B) if A knows or ought reasonably to know or believes that B will, or is likely to,—
(a) trade the derivatives; or
(b) advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold those derivatives.


Section 243 - Information insider must not advise or encourage trading
(1) An information insider (A) of a listed issuer must not—
(a) advise or encourage another person (B) to trade or hold quoted financial products of the listed issuer:
(b) advise or encourage B to advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold those financial products.
(2) An information insider (A) in relation to quoted derivatives must not—
(a) advise or encourage another person (B) to trade or hold the derivatives:
(b) advise or encourage B to advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold those derivatives.

Can we infer from the announcement that the eligible persons partook in insider trading (and potentially the conduct prohibited in ss 242-243 as well)?

Did the company just make an announcement that its directors partook conduct that would otherwise be insider trading?

I question, would they do the same thing after the transitional period? What would Jesus do?

:D

[Monty]

I attended an investor presentation late last year. At the presentation and update there was advice that there would be a capital raising round coming up. Of course the McDonald's contract was discussed only in so far as what was already in the public areana (re McDonalds Japan, Netherlands and Sweden). It did not take any genius to understand that of course VMob were trying to establish more contracts with McDonalds. there was no mention that the Holy Grail of a Global Contract with McDonalds was in the wind. In the informal conversations after the meeting there was no mention of the big contracts in the pipeline. If I had known then what I know now, I would have purchased more shares.

The reality is that VMob is a company to watch. They have been working hard and are now achieving some very good results. A read of the investor presentations and reports published on the NZX web-sites gives a very good background to what is happening.

I intend to increase my rather modest shareholding. I personally like this company and expect to see some good things in the coming months and years.

[robbo24]

Eligble investor (from an angle investor perspective which I am pretty sure is the same) is generally one that has investments over $2m, income over $200k for the past 2 years, is in the business of investing, or knows the investee. So basically HNWI and their friends.

Indeed, section 5(2CC) of the Securities Act 1978 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1978/0103/latest/DLM27289.html) is much wider than s 8 of the FMCA 2013 :D:

For the purposes of subsections (2CB) and (2CBA), a person is an eligible person if the person is 1 or more of the following:
(a) wealthy (as defined in subsection (2CD)):
(b) experienced in investing money (as defined in subsection (2CE)):
(c) experienced in the industry or business to which the security relates (as defined in subsection (2CE)).

I wonder which category the directors fall into? ;)

[lastmoa]

I attended an investor presentation late last year. At the presentation and update there was advice that there would be a capital raising round coming up. Of course the McDonald's contract was discussed only in so far as what was already in the public areana (re McDonalds Japan, Netherlands and Sweden). It did not take any genius to understand that of course VMob were trying to establish more contracts with McDonalds. there was no mention that the Holy Grail of a Global Contract with McDonalds was in the wind. In the informal conversations after the meeting there was no mention of the big contracts in the pipeline. If I had known then what I know now, I would have purchased more shares.

The reality is that VMob is a company to watch. They have been working hard and are now achieving some very good results. A read of the investor presentations and reports published on the NZX web-sites gives a very good background to what is happening.

I intend to increase my rather modest shareholding. I personally like this company and expect to see some good things in the coming months and years.

Agree with what you are saying about Vmob and I like that they have their own platform and have exposure to these large global corps .... but, I'm with Moosie and co on this one. I have viewed what I can only ascertain as offloading in the past and this recent action, even though they seem to have acted within the legal requirements as set out by the FMA, it reeks. I am out and will stay out regardless of their performance .... I also stay away from DIL for management reasons also, but there is more for incompetence. Once again a promising coy, just not acting in best interests of all shareholders.

[BFG]

I suggest holders do some "historical" research on Plus SMS this weekend, as well as the characters behind it.

A tiger never changes its stripes (sorry if you're reading this PT)...

[axe]

"The participation of directors in the private placements is entirely appropriate. It is expressly allowed, and catered for, under the NZAX Listing Rules.
The new insider trading rules in the Financial Markets Conducts Act 2013 do not apply to the issue of new shares by private placement (refer clause 20 of Schedule 1 to the Financial Markets Conduct Regulations 2014).
This was also the case under the previous insider trading rules in the Securities Markets Act 1988."

I cannot help but read this as......

...... We knew what we were doing wouldn't look great when it came to light so we called a lawyer (probably paid with shareholders funds) who told us that what we were doing wasn't illegal.
I guess some shareholders won't be happy this but what can they do? We didn't break the law? What does integrity and honesty have to do with this???? .................

[lastmoa]

I suggest holders do some "historical" research on Plus SMS this weekend, as well as the characters behind it.

A tiger never changes its stripes (sorry if you're reading this PT)...


A damn shame, but wholeheartedly agree.

[Snow Leopard]

...A tiger never changes its stripes (sorry if you're reading this PT)...


A damn shame, but wholeheartedly agree.

I have several sets of stripes which I do change regularly and also I have them laundered so that they are clean and have that nice fresh furry smell.

Easy to see why the moose became extinct and we are down to the last moa.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Baa_Baa]

Hey W69, thanks for your support.

Even though it was tempting, and easy to scalp a 100% profit at the time (avg 0.013, sell 0.025), I didn't. Why?

Well as some might agree, despite the best analysis and charts, no-one knows for sure what's going to happen tomorrow, and selling out in front of potentially another bolt upwards would have been a mistake. So some probably made a handsome gain on the day, but I didn't, except on paper. What I did do though was buy some more when the price pulled back to a mere 45% gain, and hopefully has stabilised. Sigh, yes, it appears that I prefer to position as an owner. Traders may laugh at that, that's their prerogative.

So to be clear, I'm not trading this stock. I'm buying it. I have a day job and can't sit around with my finger on the trigger minute by minute. Time will tell whether I'm right to accumulate but this week has been encouraging. I do think I'm right though, I've made that abundantly clear in earlier posts. VML has a tremendous product, in a huge market, with perfect timing for entry, is making money, signing up customers, and will reap the rewards.

This .. and only this .. is what makes VML different, and appealing, from the wanna-be products/companies that have failed, that some now choose to by ergo, deride the directors.

I fully expect the ethics police to rain on my parade, but in time I suspect their envy will outweigh my rewards for supporting VML, let alone the big holders.

As it has emerged this week, no rules have been broken, no 'ethics' have been compromised, all that has happened is an excellent success story and a board who chose, and are entitled to choose, for whatever reason, to raise $2m from outside the public shareholder pool. For me, I say 'whatever', I'm not going to cry about a spread of 0.0106 to them vs my avg 0.013. In fact, I'm really happy that "high net worth individuals, institutions and certain VMob directors" are prepared to put their money where their mouth is. It in fact re-enforces my confidence, not detracts from it.

If anyone has a problem with that, rather than judging minion shareholders, and having the temerity to suggest they spend their weekend researching failed companies that have no relevant product, market, revenue or opportunity comparisons , they should fully disclose the specific criteria that their compromised ethics are founded on, including naming precisely which directors they charge with whatever misdemeanors, and what those charges are, and submit hard evidence - not supposition - to back their case, here, in the open in the face of scrutiny.

And on that matter, they should then submit a formal complaint to the NZX, the SHA, and the FMA, instead of whining about it here. If they do not, then their whining is but an annoyance and to no good effect in an anonymous setting. It is illuminating that the news reports that NO complaints were laid with the NZX. So much for ethics!
This goes for anyone whose precious 'ethics' have been bruised, in my opinion. Sure, beat up the messenger if you like, but if someone has a real case to put forward, put it forward in a manner that will either vindicate your position, or not.

BAA


BFG, you a bit unfair making judgement on BaaBaa morals/values

Have you considered that BaaBaa isn't really an investor in VML. BB hasn't put in cash into VML (yet), rather BB is just trading prices of a ticker code.

You seem to make out that BB by trading VML prices has associated himself with those 'dodgy' promoters of VML.

I don't see BB as an 'owner' of VML, BB just trading prices and taking advantage of what is happening in the market (on a considered basis). Isn't that what you do with other ticker codes, you never think of yourself as an 'owner'

If BB needs to think about his 'involvement' in VML don't you need to think about your own ' involvement' in trading prices.

Go for it BB - make zillions from VML

[youngatheart]

Well said Baa_Baa, coincidentally I too did the same as you this past week and bought more... :)

[klid]

I'll just add that I knew nothing of this stock until Monday when I looked at the share picking competition live results and saw that all these people had whizzed past me.

Needless to say I quickly did a bit of research of the ole VML.

After reading about insider trading - (from an outsider coming in - sure it looked a little dodgey at a glance, but looking into it more I could see it could be legit :)) - I was expecting too see more here about the announcement of Maccas itself but oh well. Anyway, all this combined - I bought a parcel of 500,000 at close on Wednesday. This pushed the price up from 0.017 to 0.018 and even shifted me from 1st to 2nd place in the competition because it put Bobcat. in front of me :P

Anyway, I like and agree with some guys comment I read earlier that went along the lines of you can put in $1000 and it might become $500 or it might become $10,000. Sorry I can't remember who said that.

[Harvey Specter]

Baa baa. You could have bought a 1c during the time the private offer was open so there was no premium. The question is where those private investors told of the McD worldwide contract? Timing suggests maybe, not fully subscribed suggests maybe not.

I've been in a while and holding - the company has promise and I just hope that dodgy dealings (perceived or actual) don't hold them back.

[robbo24]

As it has emerged this week, no rules have been broken, no 'ethics' have been compromised, all that has happened is an excellent success story and a board who chose, and are entitled to choose, for whatever reason, to raise $2m from outside the public shareholder pool...

If the Crimes Act 1961 was amended to make rape legal for 12 months during a "transitional period" would you still do it? :scared:

Moral of the story: Just because it's allowable by way of legislation certainly does not make it ethical.

[dodgy]

Baa baa. You could have bought a 1c during the time the private offer was open so there was no premium. The question is where those private investors told of the McD worldwide contract? Timing suggests maybe, not fully subscribed suggests maybe not.

I've been in a while and holding - the company has promise and I just hope that dodgy dealings (perceived or actual) don't hold them back.

Harvey
I hope you are not taking my name (assumed) in vain.
Regards

dodgy

[Schrodinger]

I'll just add that I knew nothing of this stock until Monday when I looked at the share picking competition live results and saw that all these people had whizzed past me.

Needless to say I quickly did a bit of research of the ole VML.

After reading about insider trading - (from an outsider coming in - sure it looked a little dodgey at a glance, but looking into it more I could see it could be legit :)) - I was expecting too see more here about the announcement of Maccas itself but oh well. Anyway, all this combined - I bought a parcel of 500,000 at close on Wednesday. This pushed the price up from 0.017 to 0.018 and even shifted me from 1st to 2nd place in the competition because it put Bobcat. in front of me :P

Anyway, I like and agree with some guys comment I read earlier that went along the lines of you can put in $1000 and it might become $500 or it might become $10,000. Sorry I can't remember who said that.

Clearly a case of insider trading/collusion which needs to be looked at. Not sure how this blatant stock manipulation is covered in the rules...

[BFG]

If the Crimes Act 1961 was amended to make rape legal for 12 months during a "transitional period" would you still do it? :scared:

Moral of the story: Just because it's allowable by way of legislation certainly does not make it ethical.

Don't worry Rob, it seems those with vested interests will argue blue in the face that Directors are "all gud, chur bro" (at least while there's a blue arrow next to their shareholding...) while us outsiders will constantly bludgeon them with morality and ethical considerations (the holding of which precludes owning shares and therefore having the "right" to negativity about it).

It seems the unmoveable rock has met the unstoppable force!

Weird how the human mind works eh? ;)

[Lola]

Don't worry Rob, it seems those with vested interests will argue blue in the face that Directors are "all gud, chur bro" (at least while there's a blue arrow next to their shareholding...) while us outsiders will constantly bludgeon them with morality and ethical considerations (the holding of which precludes owning shares and therefore having the "right" to negativity about it).

It seems the unmoveable rock has met the unstoppable force!

Weird how the human mind works eh? ;)
Looking forward to how the mind is working following the OHE disclosures today.
VML in reverse?

[robbo24]

After some internal deliberation I have decided to share my thought of the day. In this article here (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/fma-still-seeking-clarification-vmob-db-167979) we see that Scott Bradley may or may not have a mullet.

In my view, if Scott Bradley has a mullet then this may be an indication of his business practices.

"Business in the front, PARTY IN THE BACK!!!"

[Schrodinger]

After some internal deliberation I have decided to share my thought of the day. In this article here (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/fma-still-seeking-clarification-vmob-db-167979) we see that Scott Bradley may or may not have a mullet.

In my view, if Scott Bradley has a mullet then this may be an indication of his business practices.

"Business in the front, PARTY IN THE BACK!!!"

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000350427

I think VMob can really help with a few things here....

[TJP]

Hey guys,

I've been following this VML thread for a while. After I saw the recent VML announcements some members sought to presume VML was dodgy and guilty of breaches against the FMA which I felt it was unfair (Admittedly I also questioned the statement myself).

I office shared with these guys when they were first starting up. (The company I was in was start up as well).

During that time Scott Bradley was very explicit about compliance with the FMA and he took a very serious position regarding any sort malpractice.

I don't know Scott well, but have been present when he has laid down some very direct warnings about any insider trading or any other sort of carry on.

Our company relocated office before the product was properly released, but I have worked with some of the developers there in the past (in other companies). I know these guys have been working bloody hard to get to where they are. There are some smart and dedicated guys there I know that for sure.

I'm certainly hoping that they can take things a lot further, it sounds like the McDs global contract was a real win for them. By the adoption rates it sounds like the product has been successful, at least in the pilot countries.

IMHO the < .02 price to acquire stock might carry high risk. But could also yield a great return.

Holding (small).

[Baa_Baa]

Allotment day today. 205,137,771 ordinary shares
https://nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260030

[BFG]

Hey guys,

I've been following this VML thread for a while. After I saw the recent VML announcements some members sought to presume VML was dodgy and guilty of breaches against the FMA which I felt it was unfair (Admittedly I also questioned the statement myself).

I office shared with these guys when they were first starting up. (The company I was in was start up as well).

During that time Scott Bradley was very explicit about compliance with the FMA and he took a very serious position regarding any sort malpractice.

I don't know Scott well, but have been present when he has laid down some very direct warnings about any insider trading or any other sort of carry on.

Our company relocated office before the product was properly released, but I have worked with some of the developers there in the past (in other companies). I know these guys have been working bloody hard to get to where they are. There are some smart and dedicated guys there I know that for sure.

I'm certainly hoping that they can take things a lot further, it sounds like the McDs global contract was a real win for them. By the adoption rates it sounds like the product has been successful, at least in the pilot countries.

IMHO the < .02 price to acquire stock might carry high risk. But could also yield a great return.

Holding (small).

Why would Scott Bradley, the Director of a company, be talkimg FMA compliance etc with a pleb from another company that happens to be office sharing with his company (who, you admittedly said, barely knew you!)? Why would he also be laying down the law with this other company???

I smell something here, and it ain't an EPA approval! :D

[Harvey Specter]

BFG - you have obviously never worked in an open plan office (shared with other businesses). You can't use quiet rooms for everything.

[TJP]

BFG - you have obviously never worked in an open plan office (shared with other businesses). You can't use quiet rooms for everything.

Thanks Harvey, I have noticed the BFG likes to troll a little. That was exactly the point. BFG the "F" is for friendly right?

[whatsup]

Hey guys,

I've been following this VML thread for a while. After I saw the recent VML announcements some members sought to presume VML was dodgy and guilty of breaches against the FMA which I felt it was unfair (Admittedly I also questioned the statement myself).

I office shared with these guys when they were first starting up. (The company I was in was start up as well).

During that time Scott Bradley was very explicit about compliance with the FMA and he took a very serious position regarding any sort malpractice.

I don't know Scott well, but have been present when he has laid down some very direct warnings about any insider trading or any other sort of carry on.

Our company relocated office before the product was properly released, but I have worked with some of the developers there in the past (in other companies). I know these guys have been working bloody hard to get to where they are. There are some smart and dedicated guys there I know that for sure.

I'm certainly hoping that they can take things a lot further, it sounds like the McDs global contract was a real win for them. By the adoption rates it sounds like the product has been successful, at least in the pilot countries.

IMHO the < .02 price to acquire stock might carry high risk. But could also yield a great return.

Holding (small).

If you lie down with dogs you pick up their flees

[BFG]

Thanks Harvey, I have noticed the BFG likes to troll a little. That was exactly the point. BFG the "F" is for friendly right?

It can mean a few things. I'm always the sceptic ;)

[TJP]

If you lie down with dogs you pick up their flees

Indeed. My post was not an endorsement of VML. Merely an my own personal opinion of what I've heard said, and the people I've met.

To label the guys at VML as "dogs" would be an unfair assessment IMHO.

[whatsup]

Indeed. My post was not an endorsement of VML. Merely an my own personal opinion of what I've heard said, and the people I've met.

To label the guys at VML as "dogs" would be an unfair assessment IMHO.

IMHO they are not all dogs but fleas jump !

[TJP]

IMHO they are not all dogs but fleas jump !
A good flea knows when to jump and which dog to jump to.

[Monty]

I have met scott and a few other guys a few times at investor presentations. I am very interested in this company and I do intend to continue to build upon my rather modest shareholding. My impression from the investor presentations (and the discussions that happen after) is that this is a credible company, with a long term vision and ambition to be the best in what they do. I believe the way the McDonalds contract has gone from the Netherlands, then expanded into Sweden, then the presentation at the McDonalds international Conference as best practice, then securing the Japan contract and then the Holy Grail of a Global McDonalds Contract with immediate roll out in the USA and in a relatively short time frame speaks volumes for the credibility of VMob. McDonalds simply would not sign a Global contract with a minion company from NZ unless they were sure of the credibility of the Company, the CEO, the directors and all associated with the company.

But for my part I believe McDonalds is tip of the iceberg. It gives VMob strong credibility, and together with the work happening with Microsoft, I intend to continue to invest in this company, especially as shares are sub 2 cents each. I believe any company that has a global contract with McDonalds must be worth a lot more that the current capitalisation of $20m (based on share price right at this moment). I do not believe they will stay there for long and the prospects are good. Maybe if some of those who are quick to criticise took the effort to attend investor presentations and talk to the very approachable CEO and directors then they may have a different view of the world of VMob

[robbo24]

I have met scott and a few other guys a few times at investor presentations. I am very interested in this company and I do intend to continue to build upon my rather modest shareholding. My impression from the investor presentations (and the discussions that happen after) is that this is a credible company, with a long term vision and ambition to be the best in what they do. I believe the way the McDonalds contract has gone from the Netherlands, then expanded into Sweden, then the presentation at the McDonalds international Conference as best practice, then securing the Japan contract and then the Holy Grail of a Global McDonalds Contract with immediate roll out in the USA and in a relatively short time frame speaks volumes for the credibility of VMob. McDonalds simply would not sign a Global contract with a minion company from NZ unless they were sure of the credibility of the Company, the CEO, the directors and all associated with the company.

But for my part I believe McDonalds is tip of the iceberg. It gives VMob strong credibility, and together with the work happening with Microsoft, I intend to continue to invest in this company, especially as shares are sub 2 cents each. I believe any company that has a global contract with McDonalds must be worth a lot more that the current capitalisation of $20m (based on share price right at this moment). I do not believe they will stay there for long and the prospects are good. Maybe if some of those who are quick to criticise took the effort to attend investor presentations and talk to the very approachable CEO and directors then they may have a different view of the world of VMob

The Edison report (https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/205034.pdf) suggests at 3.8 cent share price for 2017, assuming 43 customers by then. The overall number of customers may increase beyond that assumption if you include the various McDonalds countries out there. Would be interesting to see their research including full details of the confidential McDonalds agreement.

[Schrodinger]

The Edison report (https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/205034.pdf) suggests at 3.8 cent share price for 2017, assuming 43 customers by then. The overall number of customers may increase beyond that assumption if you include the various McDonalds countries out there. Would be interesting to see their research including full details of the confidential McDonalds agreement.

I wouldn't read too much into the valuation. The company announced an indicated Average revenue figure a few months back which is purely speculative. The important thing to focus on is the revenue growth and if they disclose combined customer metrics. Most interested in customer usage average basket purchased and % impact on overall retail sales.

I am not expecting them to tell us. Maybe this will be revealed a few years down the track.

[Monty]

I wonder if the valuation considered the prospect of a global contract with McDonalds or instead considered each customer as a mcdonalds about he size of Netherlands / Sweden. If that is the case then the announcements made recently including the Global Brewer Anheuser Busch, Esso in Norway (Global expansion opportunity here as well) plus the companies they listed in their 11Dec2014 investor update (IHG, Avis, Macys, Nike Estee Lauder as prospects) and the benefits of the Microsoft partnership for Azure may blow the predictions out of the water.

In the same update in December VMob advised Annualised Contracted monthly revenue of $2.4m to year end 31 March 2015. I wonder if this is exceeded. I would not be surprised. For instance the monthly licence fee for store is $25 to $50. In Japan there are 3200 McDonalds outlets. that single customer and income stream of Japan there would be between $1m and $2m just from licence fee per store. In the USA there are 14,267 McDonalds outlets. Once the roll out has completed the annual licence fee per USA outlet using the same formula will be between $4.3 and $8.6m per annum.

And this ignores income from the other vmob streams including set up fees, push messaging and redemption commission. Add in down the track the rollout of McDonalds in Europe and Asia (Initial focus will be on the countries with the most McDonalds so approximate 30,000 restaurants and just in annual outlet licence fees from McDonalds the revenue stream would be between $9m and $18m per annum. My question is how long would it take to roll out to the USA and Japan and Europe and Asia. 2-3 years would be my guess.

[Baa_Baa]

Awesome isn't it, tremendous results, wait till the market wakes up to VML!

In the meantime some people are giving away their shares today for 1.6-1.7 cents. Go figure, I'm shaking out the piggy bank. Wish I had more cash, Sigh.

(That's not meant to be troll bait, but I expect they'll quickly hear the trip trap trip trap of feet over their cynical bridge.)

[Monty]

Awesome isn't it, tremendous results, wait till the market wakes up to VML!

In the meantime some people are giving away their shares today for 1.6-1.7 cents. Go figure, I'm shaking out the piggy bank. Wish I had more cash, Sigh.

(That's not meant to be troll bait, but I expect they'll quickly hear the trip trap trip trap of feet over their cynical bridge.)

As long as the price is low I will accumulate when I can. sadly with wife and kids my cash reserves are not as much as I would like. I think the market will wake up to VML when results are published. I say accumulate through Feb and March and into early April.

[Schrodinger]

As long as the price is low I will accumulate when I can. sadly with wife and kids my cash reserves are not as much as I would like. I think the market will wake up to VML when results are published. I say accumulate through Feb and March and into early April.

Interesting to note that Norman & Bradleys invested $250k+ each extra in the latest issue disclosure.

[BFG]

Awesome isn't it, tremendous results, wait till the market wakes up to VML!

Yup, just like how VML was going to be "penny stock of 2014" (that's an actual quote btw) eh? Don't worry, this spike in price coincides with last years as well, so you may just have all year to accumulate those coins to then spend on market to buy up others half price shares. It declined 11 out of 12 months last year, from 5 cents+ to just under 1, but don't worry, they'll be "cheap as" (if only we knew how much revenue they were actually making to get some FA going and see how "cheap" they really are!) :D :D :D :D :D

[Balance]

Interesting to note that Norman & Bradleys invested $250k+ each extra in the latest issue disclosure.

Haha - such a hard decision for them to make?

Question is if they are locked in and have they already sold off a few?

[Monty]

Yup, just like how VML was going to be "penny stock of 2014" (that's an actual quote btw) eh? Don't worry, this spike in price coincides with last years as well, so you may just have all year to accumulate those coins to then spend on market to buy up others half price shares. It declined 11 out of 12 months last year, from 5 cents+ to just under 1, but don't worry, they'll be "cheap as" (if only we knew how much revenue they were actually making to get some FA going and see how "cheap" they really are!) :D :D :D :D :D

My purchases in VMob are at the lower end of the scale in the 5 to 1 cent range. If it did go belly up (and I don't for a second think it will) the amount I have invested will be a slight annoyance. I am enjoying the roller coaster ride with VMob, and don't intend to jump off any time soon. it is one stock of a few that I do hold, but I have taken the time to learn as much as I can about VMob. Yes it was going to be the penny stock of 2014. Maybe it will be the penny stock of 2015, or even 2016. Im not a trader, but rather prefer to accumulate in a few stocks and will continue to do so. I note Diligent was once a 7cent share - I wish I had been an investor in the share market back then.

[Balance]

My purchases in VMob are at the lower end of the scale in the 5 to 1 cent range. If it did go belly up (and I don't for a second think it will) the amount I have invested will be a slight annoyance. I am enjoying the roller coaster ride with VMob, and don't intend to jump off any time soon. it is one stock of a few that I do hold, but I have taken the time to learn as much as I can about VMob. Yes it was going to be the penny stock of 2014. Maybe it will be the penny stock of 2015, or even 2016. Im not a trader, but rather prefer to accumulate in a few stocks and will continue to do so. I note Diligent was once a 7cent share - I wish I had been an investor in the share market back then.

Hindsight - what a lovely thing to have.

Wishful thinking - not a good thing to have!

[Baa_Baa]

Terrific, a whole year to accumulate. Whew.


Yup, just like how VML was going to be "penny stock of 2014" (that's an actual quote btw) eh? Don't worry, this spike in price coincides with last years as well, so you may just have all year to accumulate those coins to then spend on market to buy up others half price shares. It declined 11 out of 12 months last year, from 5 cents+ to just under 1, but don't worry, they'll be "cheap as" (if only we knew how much revenue they were actually making to get some FA going and see how "cheap" they really are!) :D :D :D :D :D

[BFG]

Terrific, a whole year to accumulate. Whew.

Good luck mate, you'll need it swimming in the same pond as Sorehead and co. ;)

[TJP]

My purchases in VMob are at the lower end of the scale in the 5 to 1 cent range. If it did go belly up (and I don't for a second think it will) the amount I have invested will be a slight annoyance. I am enjoying the roller coaster ride with VMob, and don't intend to jump off any time soon. it is one stock of a few that I do hold, but I have taken the time to learn as much as I can about VMob. Yes it was going to be the penny stock of 2014. Maybe it will be the penny stock of 2015, or even 2016. Im not a trader, but rather prefer to accumulate in a few stocks and will continue to do so. I note Diligent was once a 7cent share - I wish I had been an investor in the share market back then.

I hold a similar mindset you you monty with regard to how much I've put into the VML and how I hold em (go long). Can't hurt to hold a little and of it goes to hell in a handbasket, it will be a small annoyance. I've seen plenty of other "legit" companies burn.

[Balance]

I hold a similar mindset you you monty with regard to how much I've put into the VML and how I hold em (go long). Can't hurt to hold a little and of it goes to hell in a handbasket, it will be a small annoyance. I've seen plenty of other "legit" companies burn.

How dare you imply VML is 'non-legit'?

Go wash your mouth out with Snakk oil.

:D

[Baa_Baa]

Thanks BFG, but luck has little to do with it. BTW, Still waiting for you to be specific with names, allegations, evidence, and formal complaint, with respect to VML. Will you be much longer getting around to that?


Good luck mate, you'll need it swimming in the same pond as Sorehead and co. ;)

[Monty]

Hindsight - what a lovely thing to have.

Wishful thinking - not a good thing to have!

Absolutely true. I don't want to say in 5-10 years time .... " I remember when the VMob shares were 1.8 cents each and I had read about their contracts with McDonalds and Esso and the big beer company, and decided not to invest some spare cash because of xxxx crappy reason"

Life is too short for regrets. Personally I am happy with VMob and if it works out well then I'll be happy. to slightly amend the quote

'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all, then I say It is better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried at all

[Balance]

Absolutely true. I don't want to say in 5-10 years time .... " I remember when the VMob shares were 1.8 cents each and I had read about their contracts with McDonalds and Esso and the big beer company, and decided not to invest some spare cash because of xxxx crappy reason"

Life is too short for regrets. Personally I am happy with VMob and if it works out well then I'll be happy. to slightly amend the quote

'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all, then I say It is better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried at all

Fools venture where angels dare not tread?

:D

[Baa_Baa]

Whose the fool and the angel that you're referring to? ... the fool who did not invest, and the angel that did?


Fools venture where angels dare not tread?

:D

[TJP]

How dare you imply VML is 'non-legit'?

Go wash your mouth out with Snakk oil.

:D

I will go and gargle oil of snake balls immediately. You've twisted my words Balance. Not implying VML is non-legit.

More importantly the truth of the matter will be resolved on the "Balance" sheet..... haha, a punny.

[Monty]

Nah

I prefer to think like Mr Zuckerberg who said ....

The biggest risk is not taking any risk... In a world that changing really quickly, the only strategy that is guaranteed to fail is not taking
risks

[BFG]

Thanks BFG, but luck has little to do with it. BTW, Still waiting for you to be specific with names, allegations, evidence, and formal complaint, with respect to VML. Will you be much longer getting around to that?

If you can't figure that out for yourself then that's a real pity.

And why would I waste my time with the FMA? We all know they have nothing but wet bus tickets to give out.

Anymore suggestions for how much more time I should waste here? I've already gone down one avenue, and that's enough for me, but if you want to keep bringing it up, be my guest and keep it bumped up for the newbies to be warned off VML :D

[Baa_Baa]

Well, it's a pity then, but it wasn't me making allegations. I was hoping you'd save us all from the boogie men by sharing names, allegations & evidence, wrt VML ... if you do, and it stacks up, I'll be happy to make the complaints.

See you round.
BAA


If you can't figure that out for yourself then that's a real pity.

And why would I waste my time with the FMA? We all know they have nothing but wet bus tickets to give out.

Anymore suggestions for how much more time I should waste here? I've already gone down one avenue, and that's enough for me, but if you want to keep bringing it up, be my guest and keep it bumped up for the newbies to be warned off VML :D

[TJP]

If you can't figure that out for yourself then that's a real pity.

And why would I waste my time with the FMA? We all know they have nothing but wet bus tickets to give out.

Anymore suggestions for how much more time I should waste here? I've already gone down one avenue, and that's enough for me, but if you want to keep bringing it up, be my guest and keep it bumped up for the newbies to be warned off VML :D

I agree with you BFG, holding VML is like running a three legged race with razor wire strapped to your privates. But hey, if you get to the end and they're still attached I say you are winning.

[BFG]

I agree with you BFG, holding VML is like running a three legged race with razor wire strapped to your privates. But hey, if you get to the end and they're still attached I say you are winning.

I voted someone else quote of the week on another thread but I think you one upped it with that gem!

[axe]

Thanks BFG, but luck has little to do with it. BTW, Still waiting for you to be specific with names, allegations, evidence, and formal complaint, with respect to VML. Will you be much longer getting around to that?

I think what BFG is trying to say in the nicest way is that there are some big holders in VML, who in the past when exiting their positions, haven't do so slowly, but rather selling large amounts of shares on market , and rapidly driving the price down.

It works out fine for them, because they got in early and got their shares cheap, but it results in capital losses for the other holders.
From memory the was a guy called mossie on the forums who got his fingers burnt by those individuals in another stock, and Balance was great in warning him.

The certain individual who dumped this other stock has a very large holding in VML.
So if he wants out - he wants out an any price.

[BFG]

From memory the was a guy called mossie on the forums who got his fingers burnt by those individuals in another stock, and Balance was great in warning him.

"You can lead a Moose to the registry office, but you can't make him change his name (unless he wants to)"

Just trying to make sure others don't make the same mistake I did (although I did get sell my Snakk oil for a profit, it was still a big mistake!) ;)

[Baa_Baa]

Oh look, more shares, yipeee! https://nzx.com/files/attachments/207475.pdf
(do I hear a ... "trip trap trip trap, who's that walking on my bridge")

[klid]

$0.0106 but they can't sell now for $0.0170 they'll have to 15-20 bag it first to get the liquidity.

[klid]

3 announcements at 5:20

VMob Appoints Senior Vice President Global Sales
https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260371
This is him on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billmchargue

SSH Notice - Collins Asset Management Limited
https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260372
They bought $1 million with of shares from the placement.

SSH Notice - Tim Cook
https://www.nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260373
It says he got only $80,000 worth (7,547,169) shares from the placement and now has 10,962,618 (so he must have already had 3,415,449?); which isn't significant - but he's a director of Collins Asset Management. I hadn't heard of him. I found something about him here: http://www.cookexecutive.co.nz/consultants/tim+cook

[Baa_Baa]

@axe, appreciate your post, though if what is being said, was being said in the "nicest way", without trolling, as a non-holder, with judgemental accusations of posters and unsubstantiated claims of board impropriety, I'd leave it alone. But it's not. So I don't leave it alone and won't. Here's why.

VMob isn't a two-bit wannabe-startup-likely-loser-maybe-winner-(if they-get-it-perfectly-right). Unlike Snakk and various others. No, it's not. VML is way.. way.. beyond that.

So if people get bored easily, now's the time to click the 'back button', because I'm going to lay it out in the open, and it's going to take a few words to do that.

It's not like we, the punters, don't 'get it' either, many probably do, at least I hope they do. There're risks here for sure, no one buys a penny stock without accepting risks. But there are things that make VML worthy of consideration, particularly in a recent flurry of Tech IPO's in NZ, where clearly many have over estimated those company's product alignment to their market opportunity, and their management and boards' capability to navigate to success.

So I'm going to put it out there, as an IT industry 'veteran'. Personally I hope people will be charitable, but even if they're not, I have confidence that I've been around this industry way long enough to spot a winner. My challenge is only to convert that into a personal investment opportunity. This is why I'm buying and have faith in VML. I hope it helps others to connect the dots.

Firstly, VMob been in business for around 15 years, this isn't a startup floundering around with a product looking for a problem to solve, like so many are or have been. It's a finely tuned solution for a contemporary opportunity and fits excellently with retailers wanting to engage their customers in the mobile age, to fulfill their consumer needs, 'in the moment' .. thats personalisation, presence and presentation, of product. It expertly lures, VMob's customers customers into the retailers premise. That expert luring is designed to convert customer attention into sales, that's why retailers are liking VML's products.

Look it up if you will, everyone has a mobile device and VML is at the leading edge of directing customers towards tailored retail offerings, in real-time.

So VML aren't chipping away at developing a product that may have real credibility, they're already there! It's really is an excellent solution in the right place at the right time. That in itself is a testament to their vision, diligence and timing. For that reason, and vindicated by some fantastic, almost incredible, acceptance by the worlds largest retail franchises can only be taken as foresight, of success. I say well done VMob, well done indeed!

Sure, I don't think for a moment that everyone will understand what they have, what they've achieved and what they have ahead of them as opportunity, but I hope people will in time recognised that VML is a NZ success story in the making. Their market is gigantic, almost inconceivably huge, and they're proving they can engage with huge retail players, with equally humungous partners (Microsoft). This is already, and will continue to translate, into almost inconceivable opportunity, especially for some whose scope of vision is not global. VMob are poised on the global stage, it is undeniable that they have achieved already what is the envy of others who aspire to achieve in the same market. Please don't 'small poppy' VML, or belittle their success or opportunity, or sucumb to the typical NZ syndrome of failure to see that NZ IT can foot it on a global stage.

Secondly, VML is directed and managed by people who have a great deal at stake. So many here place great stock on directors who have 'skin in the game'. Well, they sure do have that! They've put everything on the line as far as I can tell. I view their recent share placements, and the methods they've gone about it, as the best way that they can capitalise the company .. right now. They need that capital and I'll elaborate on why in a moment. The reasons that I don't share others concerns for how they've gone about raising the recent $4m is simple. It's not about greed, it's about ambition and confidence. Here's why.

A greedy company with a ****e product in a dubious market would have sniped a tasty 100%+ off the recent share price advance. Maybe some of the 'institutional investors' and 'private investors' were tempted. Who wouldn't be with a 100% gain under their nose? But ambition will overcome greed anytime, they will see all of the above observations and realise there's a genuine mega-bagger here, so why sell for a measly 100%, and shaft the company's credibility and success, when they can participate at near to cornerstone investors levels, and reap many multiples of their investment. They won't sell, I have confidence that that was a principle, if not a condition, of partaking in the recent capitalisations.

The other reason I've already elaborated on, is that they have the right product at the right time in the right place. And they know it. They can feel it. Success is just a few short steps in the current trajectory. And they'll be rich, fabulously rich beyond their dreams. So will we, relatively speaking, the minions who have backed them. They won't shaft us, because their success so far is tempered by that ambition and the potential for many-multiples of success and riches henceforth.

They will also want to put right, once and for all, the negative connotations that are so frequently espoused here. They can do that by doing the right thing, by staying the course and making themselves and everyone who backed them rich, and they'll do that because this time they really do have the 'bird in the hand' (unlike past times), and there is and will be no need to save themselves by exiting prematurely.

So I'm saying that if VMoB was a ****e company, with a wannabe product, in a dubious market, and little or nothing to show for 15 years of investment, then sure ... us little guys should be worried that the cornerstones might want their grub stakes back at 100%, but they won't. Their ambition is nicely aligned with ours. We all want a multi-bagger here. We are very closely aligned, at the current share price, to the cornerstone investors.

And one last thought on investors. Many of those current investors are way under water, except the recent $2-4m placement group. So far under, that they'll be thinking that unless they desperately need to take a humiliating loss, and it will be humiliation for them if they do, they are probably better quitting something less 'on the cusp' than VML.

So finally, and I hope this illustrates that I'm not just a cheerleader, VML have some hard roads ahead of them. It's probably obvious. There's a 'cross-over', or 'tipping point' with all IT companies, being the point at which promise must be realised by implementation, and thereafter by realising their customers business outcomes, which in turn must be reflected in profitability.

What this means for VML, and I think they totally get it, is that they need capital to 'roll out' production solutions for the new customers that they have signed. I might have been a bit happier if they had given me the opportunity to invest in their implementation phase at $0.0106, but I'm OK that they've found some larger investors who have confidence that VML will achieve their next phase of growth, which is the most important phase .. making it real, and profitable.

Rollout, or implementation, of McDonalds USA, let alone McDonalds Global, and the already signed customers is no mean feat. It will test VMobs ability to scale-up to meet demand, and the demand this will create for them I think has probably exceeded even their own ambitious expectations, in the meantime. There's the test, but I think they know that, and are up for it. They know the axiom of 'oversell and under deliver' will kill them, so they're gearing up now to make it real. They know it because they are also IT industry veterans.

So when VML put their hand out for capital. I'll be one of the first in line to support this up and coming NZ success story. They have achieved outstanding, almost incredible, successes securing some huge global retailers and the future looks terrific.

I want to close by re-iterating why I have no concerns whatsoever in the propriety of the directors, cornerstone investors, or management .. and for that matter the staff with options. I have enormous faith, through insights of 35 years in the IT industry, that the people, the product and the market, are extremely talented, vastly experienced and above all will continue to be driven by ambition and confidence that they have got it right this time, which overrides any other motivations, and in time VML will emerge as a great success story of NZ's burgeoning IT industry and be a testament to the expertise, skills and capability of those who have brought it here, allowed us to participate, and will take it to heights beyond most people's wildest imaginations.

All the best
BAA.



I think what BFG is trying to say in the nicest way is that there are some big holders in VML, who in the past when exiting their positions, haven't do so slowly, but rather selling large amounts of shares on market , and rapidly driving the price down.

It works out fine for them, because they got in early and got their shares cheap, but it results in capital losses for the other holders.
From memory the was a guy called mossie on the forums who got his fingers burnt by those individuals in another stock, and Balance was great in warning him.

The certain individual who dumped this other stock has a very large holding in VML.
So if he wants out - he wants out an any price.

[winner69]

@axe, appreciate your post, though if what is being said, was being said in the "nicest way", without trolling, as a non-holder, with judgemental accusations of posters and unsubstantiated claims of board impropriety, I'd leave it alone. But it's not. So I don't leave it alone and won't. Here's why.

VMob isn't a two-bit wannabe-startup-likely-loser-maybe-winner-(if they-get-it-perfectly-right). Unlike Snakk and various others. No, it's not. VML is way.. way.. beyond that.

So if people get bored easily, now's the time to click the 'back button', because I'm going to lay it out in the open, and it's going to take a few words to do that.

It's not like we, the punters, don't 'get it' either, many probably do, at least I hope they do. There're risks here for sure, no one buys a penny stock without accepting risks. But there are things that make VML worthy of consideration, particularly in a recent flurry of Tech IPO's in NZ, where clearly many have over estimated those company's product alignment to their market opportunity, and their management and boards' capability to navigate to success.

So I'm going to put it out there, as an IT industry 'veteran'. Personally I hope people will be charitable, but even if they're not, I have confidence that I've been around this industry way long enough to spot a winner. My challenge is only to convert that into a personal investment opportunity. This is why I'm buying and have faith in VML. I hope it helps others to connect the dots.

Firstly, VMob been in business for around 15 years, this isn't a startup floundering around with a product looking for a problem to solve, like so many are or have been. It's a finely tuned solution for a contemporary opportunity and fits excellently with retailers wanting to engage their customers in the mobile age, to fulfill their consumer needs, 'in the moment' .. thats personalisation, presence and presentation, of product. It expertly lures, VMob's customers customers into the retailers premise. That expert luring is designed to convert customer attention into sales, that's why retailers are liking VML's products.

Look it up if you will, everyone has a mobile device and VML is at the leading edge of directing customers towards tailored retail offerings, in real-time.

So VML aren't chipping away at developing a product that may have real credibility, they're already there! It's really is an excellent solution in the right place at the right time. That in itself is a testament to their vision, diligence and timing. For that reason, and vindicated by some fantastic, almost incredible, acceptance by the worlds largest retail franchises can only be taken as foresight, of success. I say well done VMob, well done indeed!

Sure, I don't think for a moment that everyone will understand what they have, what they've achieved and what they have ahead of them as opportunity, but I hope people will in time recognised that VML is a NZ success story in the making. Their market is gigantic, almost inconceivably huge, and they're proving they can engage with huge retail players, with equally humungous partners (Microsoft). This is already, and will continue to translate, into almost inconceivable opportunity, especially for some whose scope of vision is not global. VMob are poised on the global stage, it is undeniable that they have achieved already what is the envy of others who aspire to achieve in the same market. Please don't 'small poppy' VML, or belittle their success or opportunity, or sucumb to the typical NZ syndrome of failure to see that NZ IT can foot it on a global stage.

Secondly, VML is directed and managed by people who have a great deal at stake. So many here place great stock on directors who have 'skin in the game'. Well, they sure do have that! They've put everything on the line as far as I can tell. I view their recent share placements, and the methods they've gone about it, as the best way that they can capitalise the company .. right now. They need that capital and I'll elaborate on why in a moment. The reasons that I don't share others concerns for how they've gone about raising the recent $4m is simple. It's not about greed, it's about ambition and confidence. Here's why.

A greedy company with a ****e product in a dubious market would have sniped a tasty 100%+ off the recent share price advance. Maybe some of the 'institutional investors' and 'private investors' were tempted. Who wouldn't be with a 100% gain under their nose? But ambition will overcome greed anytime, they will see all of the above observations and realise there's a genuine mega-bagger here, so why sell for a measly 100%, and shaft the company's credibility and success, when they can participate at near to cornerstone investors levels, and reap many multiples of their investment. They won't sell, I have confidence that that was a principle, if not a condition, of partaking in the recent capitalisations.

The other reason I've already elaborated on, is that they have the right product at the right time in the right place. And they know it. They can feel it. Success is just a few short steps in the current trajectory. And they'll be rich, fabulously rich beyond their dreams. So will we, relatively speaking, the minions who have backed them. They won't shaft us, because their success so far is tempered by that ambition and the potential for many-multiples of success and riches henceforth.

They will also want to put right, once and for all, the negative connotations that are so frequently espoused here. They can do that by doing the right thing, by staying the course and making themselves and everyone who backed them rich, and they'll do that because this time they really do have the 'bird in the hand' (unlike past times), and there is and will be no need to save themselves by exiting prematurely.

So I'm saying that if VMoB was a ****e company, with a wannabe product, in a dubious market, and little or nothing to show for 15 years of investment, then sure ... us little guys should be worried that the cornerstones might want their grub stakes back at 100%, but they won't. Their ambition is nicely aligned with ours. We all want a multi-bagger here. We are very closely aligned, at the current share price, to the cornerstone investors.

And one last thought on investors. Many of those current investors are way under water, except the recent $200-400m placement group. So far under, that they'll be thinking that unless they desperately need to take a humiliating loss, and it will be humiliation for them if they do, they are probably better quitting something less 'on the cusp' than VML.

So finally, and I hope this illustrates that I'm not just a cheerleader, VML have some hard roads ahead of them. It's probably obvious. There's a 'cross-over', or 'tipping point' with all IT companies, being the point at which promise must be realised by implementation, and thereafter by realising their customers business outcomes, which in turn must be reflected in profitability.

What this means for VML, and I think they totally get it, is that they need capital to 'roll out' production solutions for the new customers that they have signed. I might have been a bit happier if they had given me the opportunity to invest in their implementation phase at $0.0106, but I'm OK that they've found some larger investors who have confidence that VML will achieve their next phase of growth, which is the most important phase .. making it real, and profitable.

Rollout, or implementation, of McDonalds USA, let alone McDonalds Global, and the already signed customers is no mean feat. It will test VMobs ability to scale-up to meet demand, and the demand this will create for them I think has probably exceeded even their own ambitious expectations, in the meantime. There's the test, but I think they know that, and are up for it. They know the axiom of 'oversell and under deliver' will kill them, so they're gearing up now to make it real. They know it because they are also IT industry veterans.

So when VML put their hand out for capital. I'll be one of the first in line to support this up and coming NZ success story. They have achieved outstanding, almost incredible, successes securing some huge global retailers and the future looks terrific.

I want to close by re-iterating why I have no concerns whatsoever in the propriety of the directors, cornerstone investors, or management .. and for that matter the staff with options. I have enormous faith, through insights of 35 years in the IT industry, that the people, the product and the market, are extremely talented, vastly experienced and above all will continue to be driven by ambition and confidence that they have got it right this time, which overrides any other motivations, and in time VML will emerge as a great success story of NZ's burgeoning IT industry and be a testament to the expertise, skills and capability of those who have brought it here, allowed us to participate, and will take it to heights beyond most people's wildest imaginations.

All the best
BAA.

Thanks for that BaaBaa

[hilskin]

Great post BaaBaa, thanks for that.

[Balance]

Say whatever - it is still a backdoor job and any company with any sense of self respect, worth and credibility does not do a back door listing.

[BFG]

Say whatever - it is still a backdoor job and any company with any sense of self respect, worth and credibility does not do a back door listing.

Exactly.

In regards to Baa Baas comments (good post by the way), I remember the same things being said about Snakk in the early days (myself being a cheerleader as well).

Any company can be good at what they do, but do you really trust management to have your best interests at heart when they start stacking up red flags like this? Do you really think Sorehead & co care about the little shareholders while he is holding mega cheap shares?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (also applies to those who choose to ignore it) ;)

[TJP]

Say whatever - it is still a backdoor job and any company with any sense of self respect, worth and credibility does not do a back door listing.

Hi Balance,

The reason they did the backdoor listing is because it saved a bucket of money. As a startup anyone can appreciate that they were trying to stretch the pennies. I commend their creativity with regard to this.

TJP

[BFG]

Hi Balance,

The reason they did the backdoor listing is because it saved a bucket of money. As a startup anyone can appreciate that they were trying to stretch the pennies. I commend their creativity with regard to this.

TJP

All ~$300-$500k of it? That tells me the company should have spent another year or two as a private entity getting revenue up instead of listing. They sure don't seem to have needed cashflow from the little guy at any point either, so that point is moot too!

Back in the day of proper market listings, companies weren't taken to market unless they had 5+ years of profits AND good directors with track records. Seems anyone with a dream and no revenue can list a "company" now. Even a dairy-sized operation like VML is viable this day in age (and no, you cannot argue that point as they refuse to give numbers on the latest contract and last FYs revenue WAS corner dairy sized!)

I know, I'll gather together all the dairies of NZ into a conglomerate, link them into the cloud and list them as MCD (Moosies Corner Dairies Inc). Seems legit these days, and I'm sure Sorehead will want a slice. Either that or I'll list them all individually like Handley wanted to do with all his Snakks. I'll make sure Robbo, MAC and the entity formerly known as Sparky get first dibs as well on capital raises and insider knowledge (ie when See Weed comes in at 11:50pm every week and buy up $2K worth of A2 milk and snakks). Don't worry though, you may just be in time to grab shares before they rocket off after auction time, and I'll even chuck in a few milkshakes for free as loyal followers who post incessantly about my companirs great prospects and my being an ethical CEO.

Anyone else in? :)

[winner69]

Having a guy called Tim Cook as a big shareholder gives VML some credence

[Baa_Baa]

I've had a go at totalling the VML shareholdings. Major shareholders data from Companies Office, and adding the new ones from disclosures. I can't make the 5Feb allottment add up, so maybe someone more clever than me can figure that out.

Here's how it looks. There's a lot of big holders and about 65% insto/largeprivate/public liquid on market.



VMob Major Shareholders



















Shareholders (major fr Co.Office)
Owners
Directors & Officers
Role in Vmob
Shares
Options
Issued



SHARBO LTD
Rebecca Bradley


415,727,361






Scott Bradley
Yes
CEO/Founder





SNAKK TRUSTEE LTD
Michael John SORENSEN


96,343,109















Philip NORMAN

Yes
Non-Exec Chair
50,555,556





JARDEN CUSTODIANS LTD
Bryan Ewart JOHNSON


45,000,000






David Houghton WALE








JAOBQ Pty Ltd



314,285,571





JPMORGAN



24,055,609





DE SALIS TRUST LTD
Nigel Warren HUGHES


20,048,536





ACC



17,610,199





DEUTSCHE SECURITIES NZ LTD
Peter Andrew AISH


16,849,947






Russell Keith DEAL








SUEDE SALT PTY LTD



14,698,306








Total from Co. Office
1,015,174,194





Others from Disclosures









Perfect Day Trust
Michael Carden
Yes

4,350,000





Steve Allen


CFO

5,000,000
04-Dec-14






Total from Co. Office
4,350,000














05-Feb
Capital raising - private placment
Instos,private, directors


205,137,771





Sharbo Ltd

Yes (via Scott)

16,500,000





Scott Bradley

Yes


15,000,000
05-Feb



Perfect Day Trust
Michael Carden
Yes

3,773,585





Norman Family Trust

Yes (via Phil)

234,029





Phil Norman

Yes

28,301,887





Collins Asset Management Ltd
Beverley Nola COLLINS


94,964,623






Timothy John COOK








Timothy John Cook



105,927,241








Can't make these add up!
249,701,365


















Shares Issued (from NZX)
1,468,406,587








Difference = public (approx)
199,181,028

[bunter]

I know, I'll gather together all the dairies of NZ into a conglomerate, link them into the cloud and list them as MCD (Moosies Corner Dairies Inc). :)
Been done already (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9111-VIL-Veritas-Investments-Limited) (more-or-less)

[Baa_Baa]

My maths still needs working on, but in preliminary round numbers, subject to QA:

Total Shareholdings
Directors/Officers ~520m 35% (of which Scott Bradley CEO is 30% not inc 15m options, the others 5%)
Instos/LgePrivate ~750m 50%
Public ~200m 15%

[Harvey Specter]

Back in the day of proper market listings
Grandpa! :)

[BFG]

Grandpa! :)

70 year old trapped in a 28 year olds body. Don't worry, my partner and friends constantly remind me of the old man that lives within. I may not have been there, but I read enough history to know things have dramatically changed!

[Baa_Baa]

So, I'm not seeing the problem - of impropriety. Quite the opposite actually. Instos, large private, directors buying in or increasing their stakes - the founder Mr Bradley included, backing the company and himself. The market piling in on truly outstanding company news. Volumes way up in the past couple of months. Share price doubled in the same period. I think that if someone really wants out of this they've missed the point, like why sell when it's all finally clicking into place. And even if they do, there's a buyer for every seller, some who will rejoice at a desperate or distressed seller. What would I know anyway, probably going to get shafted by the boogieman, whoever that is. Or make a bundle.

BAA


My maths still needs working on, but in preliminary round numbers, subject to QA:

Total Shareholdings
Directors/Officers ~520m 35% (of which Scott Bradley CEO is 30% not inc 15m options, the others 5%)
Instos/LgePrivate ~750m 50%
Public ~200m 15%

[BFG]

So, I'm not seeing the problem - of impropriety. Quite the opposite actually. Instos, large private, directors buying in or increasing their stakes - the founder Mr Bradley included, backing the company and himself. The market piling in on truly outstanding company news. Volumes way up in the past couple of months. Share price doubled in the same period. I think that if someone really wants out of this they've missed the point, like why sell when it's all finally clicking into place. And even if they do, there's a buyer for every seller, some who will rejoice at a desperate or distressed seller. What would I know anyway, probably going to get shafted by the boogieman, whoever that is. Or make a bundle.

BAA

Let's admit it, shareholders who keep holding aren't going to see red flags (at least while the SP is up on their buy price...) and the ones who do see (big) red flags never will buy anyways. Exactly the same as how no one ever gets booted off a board (unless they've REALLY screwed up or a big holder wants them gone) because those smart enough, and who care about ethical management, will never buy shares in a dodgy company to begin with!

We can argue this until we're blue in the face, but you and I are always going to be polar opposites, until something changes (and yes, I have the cajones to admit I was wrong and change my thinking accordingly).

I'm already tired of this, but you may have awoken Balance on the issue. And trust me, he doesn't give up as easily as I do (ie you could be arguing this for years; just look at NZO!).

Sweet dreams black sheep, take it easy this weekend ;)

[Baa_Baa]

Sure thing BFG. Buy some VML, it might resurrect the 27 year old who see's that opportunity at times outweighs the darkness, just be nimble with it. Have a nice weekend.

BAA

[Balance]

So, I'm not seeing the problem - of impropriety. Quite the opposite actually. Instos, large private, directors buying in or increasing their stakes - the founder Mr Bradley included, backing the company and himself. The market piling in on truly outstanding company news. Volumes way up in the past couple of months. Share price doubled in the same period. I think that if someone really wants out of this they've missed the point, like why sell when it's all finally clicking into place. And even if they do, there's a buyer for every seller, some who will rejoice at a desperate or distressed seller. What would I know anyway, probably going to get shafted by the boogieman, whoever that is. Or make a bundle.

BAA

You may not realize it, Baa Baa but you are regurgitating a lot of old tired cliches without providing substantiation :

1. Instos etc buying in or increasing their stakes? Those buying in are doing so at ever decreasing share prices - bad bad sign.

2. Market piling in? Happened on many occasions with penny stocks and VML. Tell us about how the share prices crashed after that and why.

3. Share price doubled? How about share price has crashed 80% since backdoor listing was made?

4. A buyer for every seller? What about the mugs buying at a premium of 1000%+ from the seller who is laughing like a well fed hyena.

5. Get shafted or make a bundle? Who has made a bundle so far, and maybe more to the point, who has been shafted so far?

[Baa_Baa]

My position is simple, and I've put it out there in as much as I see it.
People will make their own minds up.

BAA

[Balance]

My position is simple, and I've put it out there in as much as I see it.
People will make their own minds up.

BAA

Your position is not simple, actually because of all those tired old cliches being mouthed off.

You realize per point #1 out there that the first real placement was done at 2.7c? That's a huge drop in value for the first lot of placement shareholders.

In any case, hope you give some thoughts to what have posted as they are intended to provide you balance in your assessment process.

[Baa_Baa]

... the first real placement was done at 2.7c? ...

Would you mind please clarifying this for us ... what date was the "first real placement" at 2.7c?, into what registered company?, was it open to the public?, if not who could invest?

Vmob listed on NZAX Aug 28 2012. The SP that day traded $0.03 (close 27/8/12) to $0.07 (adj price) on a paltry 25k shares. [Source: Yahoo finance]

thanks.
BAA

[Baa_Baa]

Found this news article 14 Dec 2014, which is not linked on the VML website and I don't seem to be able to find it here. Apologies if someone has already posted it. Good to see NZTE saying ... "We have worked extensively with VMob for the last few years, and we’re excited to be able to continue to contribute to their global expansion. We congratulate VMob on their ongoing global growth and expansion." https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/vmob-chases-offshore-growth-nzte-033925135.html

[winner69]

I know there definitely some shares issued at 2.5 cents

[Balance]

Would you mind please clarifying this for us ... what date was the "first real placement" at 2.7c?, into what registered company?, was it open to the public?, if not who could invest?

Vmob listed on NZAX Aug 28 2012. The SP that day traded $0.03 (close 27/8/12) to $0.07 (adj price) on a paltry 25k shares. [Source: Yahoo finance]

thanks.
BAA

1 November 2013

VML Placement Completed

VMob Group Limited (VML) advises that it has successfully completed a private
placement of 150,000,000 ordinary shares at $NZ2.7 cents per share, raising
$NZ 4,050,000.

[BFG]

Would you mind please clarifying this for us ... what date was the "first real placement" at 2.7c?, into what registered company?, was it open to the public?, if not who could invest?

Vmob listed on NZAX Aug 28 2012. The SP that day traded $0.03 (close 27/8/12) to $0.07 (adj price) on a paltry 25k shares. [Source: Yahoo finance]

thanks.
BAA
https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3473657

Coincides very nicely with the last good announcement and huge spike in price. Funny that eh? ;)

[Balance]

Found this news article 14 Dec 2014, which is not linked on the VML website and I don't seem to be able to find it here. Apologies if someone has already posted it. Good to see NZTE saying ... "We have worked extensively with VMob for the last few years, and we’re excited to be able to continue to contribute to their global expansion. We congratulate VMob on their ongoing global growth and expansion." https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/vmob-chases-offshore-growth-nzte-033925135.html

Yes, like NZTE used to crow about working together with Rakon on overseas opportunities?

Notice how quiet NZTE has been about their great working relationship with Rakon since Rakon retreated from overseas with tail between its legs?

[winner69]

Suppose tax payers, a la NZTE, are 'assisting' VML with cash as well.

Wonder how much?

[Baa_Baa]

Thanks for that. So shortly afterwards the on-market price almost doubled to $0.05, twice in Nov'13 and Jan'14, perhaps some got out at those times for a handy profit, and it didn't drop below that placement that wasn't open to the public until April 2014, only 9 months or so ago. Since then there's been a steady stream of very positive news, in particular the recent contracts.

So ignoring my cliches and obviously positive views on VML, if you don't mind for a moment, what is it about VML, its products, it's market, and it's directors and management, that you think everyone should know about that would make it an avoid or no-buy, at this point in time. It would be good to have your perspective Balance, I can see that you do care and I would like to factor your views of the risks against my views of the opportunity.

TIA, BAA

[Balance]

Thanks for that. So shortly afterwards the on-market price almost doubled to $0.05, twice in Nov'13 and Jan'14, perhaps some got out at those times for a handy profit, and it didn't drop below that placement that wasn't open to the public until April 2014, only 9 months or so ago. Since then there's been a steady stream of very positive news, in particular the recent contracts.

So ignoring my cliches and obviously positive views on VML, if you don't mind for a moment, what is it about VML, its products, it's market, and it's directors and management, that you think everyone should know about that would make it an avoid or no-buy, at this point in time. It would be good to have your perspective Balance, I can see that you do care and I would like to factor your views of the risks against my views of the opportunity.

TIA, BAA

Have a read of this :

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8888-VML-VMob-Group-Limited

Lastmoa chose to ignore the assessments at that time and lost his lunch money. Moosie learnt too after his various entanglements with back doors! :D

Read some of the comments as well following the Nov 2013 placement, and see how many were sucked in and spat out :

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8888-VML-VMob-Group-Limited/page11

[winner69]

Suppose tax payers, a la NZTE, are 'assisting' VML with cash as well.

Wonder how much?

There was $48,000 go grants shown as income in last set of accounts

Suppose if from NZTE the country is a winner anyway

[Balance]

There was $48,000 go grants shown as income in last set of accounts

Suppose if from NZTE the country is a winner anyway

Company or country, W69 - haha.

[BFG]

So ignoring my cliches and obviously positive views on VML, if you don't mind for a moment, what is it about VML, its products, it's market, and it's directors and management, that you think everyone should know about that would make it an avoid or no-buy, at this point in time. It would be good to have your perspective Balance, I can see that you do care and I would like to factor your views of the risks against my views of the opportunity.

For the love of all that is holy, if you don't listen to me, please at least listen to Balance (even though we're both saying the same thing)!

[Baa_Baa]

Despite the Balance Fan Group's deep conviction, and 'the' Balance suggestion that I re-read (yes, re-read) the endless to'ing and fro'ing on this thread, let alone SNK, PlusSMS etc etc, I am yet to hear a convincing case that investing in VML RIGHT NOW is tantamount to stupidity.

It's touching that there is such concern for mine and others fiscal well being, however there is nothing more that I have learnt from the endless alarms. If for example someone could finish the following sentence and it made compelling sense, then maybe I/we would better understand why you think VML is so terribly risky right now that we would combine our half full glass with your half empty glass and just sell up and walk away.

Please complete the following sentence:

"Do not invest in VML, you ___________, (moron / idiot / loser / other) because the _______________ (product / market / director(s) / management / something else / all of the above) are ____________, __________, and ___________, and my accusations of them are ____________, ___________, ___________ which is because of _____________, (and ____________) which is why this time is a replica of ___________, _________, ___________, times, and here is the evidence why this time is not different - __________; _________; __________; ________ even although I have chosen not to formally report any of this to ___________, __________, or ___________ which of course I could have but haven't because I am __________ (not a shareholder / disinterested / unsure of my facts / have no evidence / afraid) so if you ignore this warning you can expect ___________, ____________ and ____________ to happen, including my telling you "I told you so" interminably for ever after.

BAA

[Balance]

For the love of all that is holy, if you don't listen to me, please at least listen to Balance (even though we're both saying the same thing)!

Don't waste your breath and time, BFG.

Notice how Baa Baa cannot refute one single item on post #442?

Write not for Baa Baa but to provide a counter to the many newies who frequent the site.

All cool! :D

[bunter]

FWIW I'd guess the management isn't the problem. As with XRO and OHE, vmob is led by someone who seems enthusiastic hardworking and knowledgeable.

All shares are a gamble, but I don't bet on companies that make losses and trade on huge multiples of turnover, because they make losses and trade on huge multiples of turnover.

If I did trade them it would be in a cynical fashion using TA.
And in fact it looks like the medium term MA crosses and Donchian 150 day highs have signalled a buy.

I think what is riling some is the suggestion that there are good fundamental reasons to buy this company.

The whole NZ tech sector is frothy IYAM. I don't get how it got that way, given there was a tech crash only a decade or so ago.

[BFG]

Do not invest in VML, you silly goose because the pteorodactyls are pooping on my lawn and the moose have eyes and my accusations of are beyond the realm greased monkeys caring silver spoons which is because of the Second World War and Hitlers penchant for creamed corn which is why this time is a replica of maple syrup, cheese curds and dollar bills all microwaved into a hot mess at times, and here is the evidence why this time is not different - slightly cold asphalt; flying pigs; farting octopi; a babys arm holding an apple even though I have chosen not to formally report any of this to Hitlers creamed corn brigades, cute cats invading the interwebs, or an enraged overgrown giraffe which of course I could have but haven't because I am a four legged woodland creature so if you ignore this warning you can expect creamed corn, monkey poo and Balance to deliver hand made Belgian chocolates on a silver platter with a side of hors d'oeuvres to happen, including my telling you "I told you so" interminably for ever after.

PS - I left this as is to show your terrible spelling and lack of punctuation. Run on sentences are the work of the devil ;)

[Baa_Baa]

Im not here to refute your posts Balance, though you seem to be here to refute mine, by asking questions instead of providing evidence why VML is as bad as you seem to think .. right now. It's about right now, not a history lesson. All you do is post suppositions and inference without specific evidence, like BFG your protege, only more eloquently. I notice that's your MO everywhere though, so I don't feel particularly singled out for your glass half full treatment.


Don't waste your breath and time, BFG.

Notice how Baa Baa cannot refute one single item on post #442?

Write not for Baa Baa but to provide a counter to the many newies who frequent the site.

All cool! :D

[Baa_Baa]

I thought you had reached a new low point a week or so ago, apparently not. Get back on point and state your accusations, evidence and why you refuse to do anything substantive about it, except whining here. For someone with such strong convictions, I fail to see why you wouldn't.


Do not invest in VML, you silly goose because the pteorodactyls are pooping on my lawn and the moose have eyes and my accusations of are beyond the realm greased monkeys caring silver spoons which is because of the Second World War and Hitlers penchant for creamed corn which is why this time is a replica of maple syrup, cheese curds and dollar bills all microwaved into a hot mess at times, and here is the evidence why this time is not different - slightly cold asphalt; flying pigs; farting octopi; a babys arm holding an apple even though I have chosen not to formally report any of this to Hitlers creamed corn brigades, cute cats invading the interwebs, or an enraged overgrown giraffe which of course I could have but haven't because I am a four legged woodland creature so if you ignore this warning you can expect creamed corn, monkey poo and Balance to deliver hand made Belgian chocolates on a silver platter with a side of hors d'oeuvres to happen, including my telling you "I told you so" interminably for ever after.

PS - I left this as is to show your terrible spelling and lack of punctuation. Run on sentences are the work of the devil ;)

[BFG]

I thought you had reached a new low point a week or so ago, apparently not. Get back on point and state your accusations, evidence and why you refuse to do anything substantive about it, except whining here. For someone with such strong convictions, I fail to see why you wouldn't.

It's Saturday night of a long weekend Baa, chill out man. Nothing like a good laugh once in awhile ;)

[Lola]

Don't waste your breath and time, BFG.

Notice how Baa Baa cannot refute one single item on post #442?

Write not for Baa Baa but to provide a counter to the many newies who frequent the site.

All cool! :D
Yawn; both you guys AFAs?

[Balance]

Yawn; both you guys AFAs?

Sad.

"He who knows not that he knows not, he is a fool. Avoid him."

"He who knows that he knows not, he is a child. Teach him."

[kizame]

Do not invest in VML, you silly goose because the pteorodactyls are pooping on my lawn and the moose have eyes and my accusations of are beyond the realm greased monkeys caring silver spoons which is because of the Second World War and Hitlers penchant for creamed corn which is why this time is a replica of maple syrup, cheese curds and dollar bills all microwaved into a hot mess at times, and here is the evidence why this time is not different - slightly cold asphalt; flying pigs; farting octopi; a babys arm holding an apple even though I have chosen not to formally report any of this to Hitlers creamed corn brigades, cute cats invading the interwebs, or an enraged overgrown giraffe which of course I could have but haven't because I am a four legged woodland creature so if you ignore this warning you can expect creamed corn, monkey poo and Balance to deliver hand made Belgian chocolates on a silver platter with a side of hors d'oeuvres to happen, including my telling you "I told you so" interminably for ever after.

PS - I left this as is to show your terrible spelling and lack of punctuation. Run on sentences are the work of the devil ;)

Hmmn Monty Pythons' Flying Circus, BFG you have sunk to a new low being like them.

[kizame]

People! Buy the damn shares if you want! OR not!
Lets just talk about the company,it's prospects,it's position in the market.

BFG and Balance if I saw negative posts warning others to stay away,frankly I would head that advice until at least I knew otherwise,
DYOR !

[BFG]

Hmmn Monty Pythons' Flying Circus, BFG you have sunk to a new low being like them.

I always try to look on the bright side of life... ;)

[BFG]

I have written this piece up (with the help of another member) that will helpfully inform those considering an investment in VMob so they are fully informed as to its history, as well as the blue sky potential that some are suggesting awaits the company due to its recent announcements. (Baa Baa, please read carefully!)

VMob started its life off as a horse racing breeder company called Strathmore Group Limited in the late 1980s. However, Strathmore succumbed to whatever ills it caught in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the listed entity went through a number of reverse takeovers. Between the 1990s and now, it was known under a few names, including Velo Capital, Media Technology Group Limited (of which Phil Norman was a director), and eventually VMob Group as of mid 2012.

There have been a number of colourful people involved in VMob that shareholders should be aware of before considering investing in VMob:

- The main investor/banker is John Sorensen via Snakk Trustee Limited, who of course has been an investors in Plus SMS, Truscreen, Snakk Media, Baboom and Mega Ltd (through his vehicle VIG Limited). He has been involved in a number of companies dating all the way back to Rainbow Corporation in the 1980s. His speciality is buying up very cheap assets, getting them listed, and then exiting at big profits while new investors pick up the risk.

- Other investors include Laddara Pty Ltd (of Australia). These are the Higgins brothers, who own a large painting and contracting firm in Melbourne. They were large investors in the mangled wreckage of Plus SMS Ltd, as well as Snakk Media, Orion Minerals Group and Mega Limited.

- Sean Joyce, director of Vmob, Orion Minerals, Truscreen as well as Plus SMS and more. Joyce’s business used to be called Corporate Counsel, but is now called CM Partners. He specialises in listing penny dreadfuls, and has acted for Sorensen interests many times in the past. Listings and reverse takeovers he has been involved includes names like Seadragon, Snakk Media, Eastern HiFi, Dominion Finance, NZ Finance, Jasons Travel, National Mail, RIS, Feverpitch, ICP Bio and Zintel.

- Brett Wilkinson, who was also part of the Plus SMS wreckage, was involved in Orion Minerals plus other companies listed by Joyce, and is now advising investors at Vulcan Capital.

- The one shining light is Phil Norman, who to his credit, can call himself the inaugural chairman of Xero, so far a huge success story in NZ. It is also worth noting though that he is now Sean Joyce’s business partner at CM Partners Ltd, which is a corporate advisory for small companies looking for capital.

So what of these companies?

Plus SMS has to be one of the worst-ever companies to grace the NZX since the 1987 share market crash wiped out the worst of the 1980s. In short, they made misleading statements to allegedly allow insiders to pump and dump the stock. But rather than re-litigate their entire history here, you can read it all at the following links:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/plus-sms-problems-run-deep-103750
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/history-failure-led-plus-sms-delisting-121166
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2520614/Big-ideas-little-results-The-Plus-SMS-story
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10753959

Truscreen is a newly listed company selling a product which had chewed through several tens of millions of Australian dollars before failing a few years back. The wreckage was picked up by John Sorensen for peanuts value, dusted off, and then backended into Truscreen late last year. A company whose assets were perhaps valued at less than $20,000 is now in a company worth $18m. This has been covered in quite some detail on teh TRU thread, but Chalkie makes an excellent case for why extreme caution needs to be exercised:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/63325538/tech-company-leftovers-lose-share-appeal

Orion Minerals - this mining company doesn’t do any mining anymore. It appears Mr Jacomb was persuaded to put up capital by his good (ex-)friend Ken Wikeley in order to finance a ground-breaking new drill piece and procedure that was going to make them millions. Turns out it was pretty much a scam and the entire thing went to court for years. It owns some scrap metals businesses in Melbourne. It doesn’t appear to have made a profit at any point, and Mr Sorenson was also involved quite heavily:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/4747101/IPO-would-slam-the-back-door-on-reverse-listings

The repeated inclusion of these individuals and others in numerous penny dreadfuls with appalling track records of shareholder wealth destruction and bad governance suggests that more of the same is at least a possibility at the other companies they are involved in.

This is why it is important to heavily discount any news coming from VMob about successful contracts, particularly given the Plus SMS background which mimics VMob in several ways.

The same people who promoted and benefitted from the Plus SMS debacle are the same people who are promoting and benefitting from "global contracts” in Vmob. (Note well: the Vmob contract announcement the other day comes without any revenue figures, or any meaningful way to assess the real price sensitivity of the announcement.)

The same people who have promoted uncapitalised small companies with slim prospect by “blue sky potential", are the same who then sell down at highly inflated levels .

The same people who oversaw capital raises for some of the worst NZ corporate wreckages are the same people who are raising capital in Vmob (subject now to concerns being consider by the FMA - without anyone having filed a complaint to date, no less!).

Maybe Vmob will hit it out of the park. Maybe they will be well capitalised. Maybe they have superior management and the governance will surprise us with their vision and prudence. Maybe Vmob will be a great success.

But for this great success, investors will need to weigh up the histories of Plus SMS, Orion Minerals, Snakk, Truscreen, and a whole host of other poor and awful entities, and work out whether they as the Johnny-come-lately-investors are the means by which others profit from.

The risky vs reward scenario here is very clear here if you buy: YOU take the risk and THEY take the reward. As Balance likes to say; Heads they win, Tails you lose.\

Be careful out there people...

[robbo24]

Nice write-up BFG :D:D:D:D:D

[Bilbo]

Thanks for the recap BFG. I have been sitting on the fence on this one for a long time after having been bitten by Snakk (fortunately managed to exit without too much damage), but decided to take a small wager ($3,000) in Dec at 1.1c. Part of the reason for doing so was that having a stake would force me to pay closer attention to the company by regularly evaluating the hold/sell/buy more decision. I am obviously happy with the 63% paper return to date :)

The one big question I have in response to your concerns is why has Snakk Trustees not sold any shares since listing (their last ssh notice was Dec 13, but companies office is still showing the same number of shares as at listing). After listing the sp rocketed to 8c before falling and then rising back to around 5c giving plenty of opportunity for that quick profit. Maybe the shareholders know this one is worth riding for the long term?

Also, what do you make of Tim Cook and Collins Asset Management taking a stake in the latest capital raising. From what I can tell Tim Cook is savvy and well respected.

[bunter]

Thanks BFG, very useful and interesting.
FYI Brett Wilkinson was a financial journalist in the mid eighties, before deciding he wanted a piece of the action.

Would be interesting to see the actual contract vmob holds with McDonald's. It doesn't seem to be making much money for vmob.


The one shining light is Phil Norman, who to his credit, can call himself the inaugural chairman of Xero, so far a huge success story in NZ. It is also worth noting though that he is now Sean Joyce’s business partner at CM Partners Ltd, which is a corporate advisory for small companies looking for capital

Could be he saw how easy it is to make huge money on the back of little more than a good story and decided to team up with the experts.

Xero could make it, and I hope it does, but IMO it is way overpriced and will more likely end up with a market capitalisation similar to the other companies you mention.
Best hope is to be bought out before it's too late.

[BFG]

The one big question I have in response to your concerns is why has Snakk Trustees not sold any shares since listing (their last ssh notice was Dec 13, but companies office is still showing the same number of shares as at listing). After listing the sp rocketed to 8c before falling and then rising back to around 5c giving plenty of opportunity for that quick profit. Maybe the shareholders know this one is worth riding for the long term?

I honestly do not know Mr Sorenson's mindset and why he hasn't sold down. Who knows, maybe he does believe this is the next big thing (sorry buddy ;) ). But the fact that he used a sneaky entity called "Snakk Trustee" to hide himself and his Snakk holding before selling every share he had speaks volumes about his character!


Also, what do you make of Tim Cook and Collins Asset Management taking a stake in the latest capital raising. From what I can tell Tim Cook is savvy and well respected.

I agree. I can't say anything bad really! Good people do get caught up in bad plans though...

[whatsup]

I have written this piece up (with the help of another member) that will helpfully inform those considering an investment in VMob so they are fully informed as to its history, as well as the blue sky potential that some are suggesting awaits the company due to its recent announcements. (Baa Baa, please read carefully!)

VMob started its life off as a horse racing breeder company called Strathmore Group Limited in the late 1980s. However, Strathmore succumbed to whatever ills it caught in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the listed entity went through a number of reverse takeovers. Between the 1990s and now, it was known under a few names, including Velo Capital, Media Technology Group Limited (of which Phil Norman was a director), and eventually VMob Group as of mid 2012.

There have been a number of colourful people involved in VMob that shareholders should be aware of before considering investing in VMob:

- The main investor/banker is John Sorensen via Snakk Trustee Limited, who of course has been an investors in Plus SMS, Truscreen, Snakk Media, Baboom and Mega Ltd (through his vehicle VIG Limited). He has been involved in a number of companies dating all the way back to Rainbow Corporation in the 1980s. His speciality is buying up very cheap assets, getting them listed, and then exiting at big profits while new investors pick up the risk.

- Other investors include Laddara Pty Ltd (of Australia). These are the Higgins brothers, who own a large painting and contracting firm in Melbourne. They were large investors in the mangled wreckage of Plus SMS Ltd, as well as Snakk Media, Orion Minerals Group and Mega Limited.

- Sean Joyce, director of Vmob, Orion Minerals, Truscreen as well as Plus SMS and more. Joyce’s business used to be called Corporate Counsel, but is now called CM Partners. He specialises in listing penny dreadfuls, and has acted for Sorensen interests many times in the past. Listings and reverse takeovers he has been involved includes names like Seadragon, Snakk Media, Eastern HiFi, Dominion Finance, NZ Finance, Jasons Travel, National Mail, RIS, Feverpitch, ICP Bio and Zintel.

- Brett Wilkinson, who was also part of the Plus SMS wreckage, was involved in Orion Minerals plus other companies listed by Joyce, and is now advising investors at Vulcan Capital.

- The one shining light is Phil Norman, who to his credit, can call himself the inaugural chairman of Xero, so far a huge success story in NZ. It is also worth noting though that he is now Sean Joyce’s business partner at CM Partners Ltd, which is a corporate advisory for small companies looking for capital.

So what of these companies?

Plus SMS has to be one of the worst-ever companies to grace the NZX since the 1987 share market crash wiped out the worst of the 1980s. In short, they made misleading statements to allegedly allow insiders to pump and dump the stock. But rather than re-litigate their entire history here, you can read it all at the following links:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/plus-sms-problems-run-deep-103750
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/history-failure-led-plus-sms-delisting-121166
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2520614/Big-ideas-little-results-The-Plus-SMS-story
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10753959

Truscreen is a newly listed company selling a product which had chewed through several tens of millions of Australian dollars before failing a few years back. The wreckage was picked up by John Sorensen for peanuts value, dusted off, and then backended into Truscreen late last year. A company whose assets were perhaps valued at less than $20,000 is now in a company worth $18m. This has been covered in quite some detail on teh TRU thread, but Chalkie makes an excellent case for why extreme caution needs to be exercised:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/63325538/tech-company-leftovers-lose-share-appeal

Orion Minerals - this mining company doesn’t do any mining anymore. It appears Mr Jacomb was persuaded to put up capital by his good (ex-)friend Ken Wikeley in order to finance a ground-breaking new drill piece and procedure that was going to make them millions. Turns out it was pretty much a scam and the entire thing went to court for years. It owns some scrap metals businesses in Melbourne. It doesn’t appear to have made a profit at any point, and Mr Sorenson was also involved quite heavily:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/4747101/IPO-would-slam-the-back-door-on-reverse-listings

The repeated inclusion of these individuals and others in numerous penny dreadfuls with appalling track records of shareholder wealth destruction and bad governance suggests that more of the same is at least a possibility at the other companies they are involved in.

This is why it is important to heavily discount any news coming from VMob about successful contracts, particularly given the Plus SMS background which mimics VMob in several ways.

The same people who promoted and benefitted from the Plus SMS debacle are the same people who are promoting and benefitting from "global contracts” in Vmob. (Note well: the Vmob contract announcement the other day comes without any revenue figures, or any meaningful way to assess the real price sensitivity of the announcement.)

The same people who have promoted uncapitalised small companies with slim prospect by “blue sky potential", are the same who then sell down at highly inflated levels .

The same people who oversaw capital raises for some of the worst NZ corporate wreckages are the same people who are raising capital in Vmob (subject now to concerns being consider by the FMA - without anyone having filed a complaint to date, no less!).

Maybe Vmob will hit it out of the park. Maybe they will be well capitalised. Maybe they have superior management and the governance will surprise us with their vision and prudence. Maybe Vmob will be a great success.

But for this great success, investors will need to weigh up the histories of Plus SMS, Orion Minerals, Snakk, Truscreen, and a whole host of other poor and awful entities, and work out whether they as the Johnny-come-lately-investors are the means by which others profit from.

The risky vs reward scenario here is very clear here if you buy: YOU take the risk and THEY take the reward. As Balance likes to say; Heads they win, Tails you lose.\

Be careful out there people...


In my opinion some people would sell their fathers if they knew who he was !!

[Harvey Specter]

The question is can this company make the transition from being a baddoor dog to a company that stands on its own merits. The old dogs are still hanging on to the share register but the company is making some wins so maybe they see a future success (otherwise why weren't they selling down when it hit 5c? or were they?).

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.

[Monty]

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.

I have followed VMoB since I bought some shares in late 2013. Since then there have been a series of positive announcements. and nothing negative. in fact I would say each announcement is better than the last. (although the next announcement is very unlikely to exceed the Global McDonalds announcement.)

There does seem to be so much negativity here about VMob. I am wondering what is the reason behind the hostility. Oh well if it keeps the share price down then that will be my advantage while I accumulate a few more shares.

[bunter]

(although the next announcement is very unlikely to exceed the Global McDonalds announcement.)

There does seem to be so much negativity here about VMob. I am wondering what is the reason behind the hostility

I Wonder why the Company hasn't told the shareholders how much Money the Global McDonalds' announcement is Worth.
Presumably they Know.

[klid]

I reckon they do but Maccas told them to keep shut about it.

[Monty]

I Wonder why the Company hasn't told the shareholders how much Money the Global McDonalds' announcement is Worth.
Presumably they Know.

I would hazard a guess that there are commercially sensitive reasons. I am relatively new to the sharemarket and trying to spread investments over a number of portfolios - but very few organisations actually disclose how much particular contracts are worth. However based on publically available information there is some considerable upside. if for instance VMob can charge between $25 and $50 per month for each site then that is between $4.2m and $8.4m from one revenue stream for the McDonalds in the USA alone (based on 14,000 outlets. add in set up fees, on going maintenance costs and revenue from use of vouchers and sales and the revenue looks pretty good. Add in McDonalds Asia and Europe and things really start to look up. I suggest you go look at the investor information on the website. and put 2 and 2 together

[bunter]

I would hazard a guess that there are commercially sensitive reasons.

Me too, but maybe not in the way you meant.

[Baa_Baa]

I Wonder why the Company hasn't told the shareholders how much Money the Global McDonalds' announcement is Worth.
Presumably they Know.

I would hazard a guess that they literally don't know, as it can't be assumed that every McD's franchise will (or is mandated) to take up the Vmob solution. It seems more probable that the Global entity secures a master agreement with Vmob that franchises may draw-down on, though not necessarily that all will, and those that do rollout the Vmob solution over time. Pure speculation on my part however, I'd favour that scenario with a surprise to the upside, than assuming every franchise takes up the solution and be disappointed on the downside.

[axe]

The question is can this company make the transition from being a baddoor dog to a company that stands on its own merits. The old dogs are still hanging on to the share register but the company is making some wins so maybe they see a future success (otherwise why weren't they selling down when it hit 5c? or were they?).

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.


I wonder if some were buying on small volumes on the way up to 5c ..........

[Baa_Baa]

There's a concise summary, straight to the key points, nicely put Harvey. The signs are that VML's transition is happening and probably surprising even the most optimistic. Who expected them to sign McD's global?

The question is as you say Harvey, can they turn the contracts into revenue and profit? We won't know until we are told about their ability to implement, to convert 'wins' into paying customers. We don't know their ambition for growth either. When we do, we can better understand the timeframe to profit. Even XRO ended up misleading their shareholders with "profit by 2011" yeah right!

This is what makes VML speculative. The product viability question appears to be behind them, that in itself is a major milestone. VML though has some important questions to answer in due course, providing guidance to the market. They will know what those questions are. The larger shareholders won't stand forever being starved of tangible information, let alone the minions.

For my own part, I can live with the risk. It doesn't keep me awake at night and I'm also enjoying seeing VML fire up. My situation may not be atypical as I waited a long time before entering and accumulating at what I hope will be at or around the bottom, hence already very profitable .. on paper.

People will DYODD etc ..


The question is can this company make the transition from being a baddoor dog to a company that stands on its own merits. The old dogs are still hanging on to the share register but the company is making some wins so maybe they see a future success (otherwise why weren't they selling down when it hit 5c? or were they?).

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.

[Baa_Baa]

A nod to BFG, and his able assistant providing Balance? Your overview of some of the players and their past performance is enlightening indeed, particularly summarised as succinctly as you have done. I appreciate better now the basis of your concerns and presumably your reasons why you personally wouldn't invest. For my part, those concerns don't outweigh my interest to invest in the opportunity that VML presents, but I respect (both) of your views.

[BFG]

A nod to BFG, and his able assistant providing Balance? Your overview of some of the players and their past performance is enlightening indeed, particularly summarised as succinctly as you have done. I appreciate better now the basis of your concerns and presumably your reasons why you personally wouldn't invest. For my part, those concerns don't outweigh my interest to invest in the opportunity that VML presents, but I respect (both) of your views.

No input from Balance, but another knowledgeable and respected member with their ear to the ground and nose in the air :D :D :D

[Baa_Baa]

We are fortunate to have a variety of views here. I recall reading a post BFG, that quoted you in your past life as Moosie, it was along the lines of be careful "being fast and loose with peoples reputations". The downside of changing nom de plumes and deleting your posts is, it appears, that where one is quoted here, ones comments remain on record, not to mention backups. I hope for your sake that you have covered your proverbial and have expert legal representation in case you need it. For that matter one wonders if ST is implicated if comments hosted here are construed, or misconstrued, as libellous? Sticking it up the money is bold for sure. I guess you've carefully considered that though? Don't be the fall guy ok, be careful about being used or manipulated as well, you just never know peoples motivations when it comes to money.


No input from Balance, but another knowledgeable and respected member with their ear to the ground and nose in the air :D :D :D

[klid]

Can I sit back now and wait until Tim sells and just take the cue that it's time? :)

[BFG]

We are fortunate to have a variety of views here. I recall reading a post BFG, that quoted you in your past life as Moosie, it was along the lines of be careful "being fast and loose with peoples reputations". The downside of changing nom de plumes and deleting your posts is, it appears, that where one is quoted here, ones comments remain on record, not to mention backups. I hope for your sake that you have covered your proverbial and have expert legal representation in case you need it. For that matter one wonders if ST is implicated if comments hosted here are construed, or misconstrued, as libellous? Sticking it up the money is bold for sure. I guess you've carefully considered that though? Don't be the fall guy ok, be careful about being used or manipulated as well, you just never know peoples motivations when it comes to money.

I have expert legal advice :D :D :D

I also have thought through my words much more carefully than in past years. Can you point me to anything libellous/false/misleading that I have posted? Didn't think so. Everything is based on facts and previous history/actions of said people. You may hate it being a holder, it may be negative (?), but it sure ain't sue'able! And I have every right to say it to protect others. :D

[Joshuatree]

Thanks BFG for that.A most excellent piece. Although i haven't verified it for myself and we all need to; chalky would be proud. What I've observed over the years is how naively trusting investors are when researching a company. Often no investigation of management history / success/failure is done at all ; and they /we /I believe/d all the positive spin that comes out . The management , their history and credibility; their successes ; their alignment and placing their shareholders beside them are paramount and ahead of anything else when looking at investing in any company.



I have written this piece up (with the help of another member) that will helpfully inform those considering an investment in VMob so they are fully informed as to its history, as well as the blue sky potential that some are suggesting awaits the company due to its recent announcements. (Baa Baa, please read carefully!)

VMob started its life off as a horse racing breeder company called Strathmore Group Limited in the late 1980s. However, Strathmore succumbed to whatever ills it caught in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the listed entity went through a number of reverse takeovers. Between the 1990s and now, it was known under a few names, including Velo Capital, Media Technology Group Limited (of which Phil Norman was a director), and eventually VMob Group as of mid 2012.

There have been a number of colourful people involved in VMob that shareholders should be aware of before considering investing in VMob:

- The main investor/banker is John Sorensen via Snakk Trustee Limited, who of course has been an investors in Plus SMS, Truscreen, Snakk Media, Baboom and Mega Ltd (through his vehicle VIG Limited). He has been involved in a number of companies dating all the way back to Rainbow Corporation in the 1980s. His speciality is buying up very cheap assets, getting them listed, and then exiting at big profits while new investors pick up the risk.

- Other investors include Laddara Pty Ltd (of Australia). These are the Higgins brothers, who own a large painting and contracting firm in Melbourne. They were large investors in the mangled wreckage of Plus SMS Ltd, as well as Snakk Media, Orion Minerals Group and Mega Limited.

- Sean Joyce, director of Vmob, Orion Minerals, Truscreen as well as Plus SMS and more. Joyce’s business used to be called Corporate Counsel, but is now called CM Partners. He specialises in listing penny dreadfuls, and has acted for Sorensen interests many times in the past. Listings and reverse takeovers he has been involved includes names like Seadragon, Snakk Media, Eastern HiFi, Dominion Finance, NZ Finance, Jasons Travel, National Mail, RIS, Feverpitch, ICP Bio and Zintel.

- Brett Wilkinson, who was also part of the Plus SMS wreckage, was involved in Orion Minerals plus other companies listed by Joyce, and is now advising investors at Vulcan Capital.

- The one shining light is Phil Norman, who to his credit, can call himself the inaugural chairman of Xero, so far a huge success story in NZ. It is also worth noting though that he is now Sean Joyce’s business partner at CM Partners Ltd, which is a corporate advisory for small companies looking for capital.

So what of these companies?

Plus SMS has to be one of the worst-ever companies to grace the NZX since the 1987 share market crash wiped out the worst of the 1980s. In short, they made misleading statements to allegedly allow insiders to pump and dump the stock. But rather than re-litigate their entire history here, you can read it all at the following links:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/plus-sms-problems-run-deep-103750
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/history-failure-led-plus-sms-delisting-121166
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2520614/Big-ideas-little-results-The-Plus-SMS-story
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10753959

Truscreen is a newly listed company selling a product which had chewed through several tens of millions of Australian dollars before failing a few years back. The wreckage was picked up by John Sorensen for peanuts value, dusted off, and then backended into Truscreen late last year. A company whose assets were perhaps valued at less than $20,000 is now in a company worth $18m. This has been covered in quite some detail on teh TRU thread, but Chalkie makes an excellent case for why extreme caution needs to be exercised:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/63325538/tech-company-leftovers-lose-share-appeal

Orion Minerals - this mining company doesn’t do any mining anymore. It appears Mr Jacomb was persuaded to put up capital by his good (ex-)friend Ken Wikeley in order to finance a ground-breaking new drill piece and procedure that was going to make them millions. Turns out it was pretty much a scam and the entire thing went to court for years. It owns some scrap metals businesses in Melbourne. It doesn’t appear to have made a profit at any point, and Mr Sorenson was also involved quite heavily:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/4747101/IPO-would-slam-the-back-door-on-reverse-listings

The repeated inclusion of these individuals and others in numerous penny dreadfuls with appalling track records of shareholder wealth destruction and bad governance suggests that more of the same is at least a possibility at the other companies they are involved in.

This is why it is important to heavily discount any news coming from VMob about successful contracts, particularly given the Plus SMS background which mimics VMob in several ways.

The same people who promoted and benefitted from the Plus SMS debacle are the same people who are promoting and benefitting from "global contracts” in Vmob. (Note well: the Vmob contract announcement the other day comes without any revenue figures, or any meaningful way to assess the real price sensitivity of the announcement.)

The same people who have promoted uncapitalised small companies with slim prospect by “blue sky potential", are the same who then sell down at highly inflated levels .

The same people who oversaw capital raises for some of the worst NZ corporate wreckages are the same people who are raising capital in Vmob (subject now to concerns being consider by the FMA - without anyone having filed a complaint to date, no less!).

Maybe Vmob will hit it out of the park. Maybe they will be well capitalised. Maybe they have superior management and the governance will surprise us with their vision and prudence. Maybe Vmob will be a great success.

But for this great success, investors will need to weigh up the histories of Plus SMS, Orion Minerals, Snakk, Truscreen, and a whole host of other poor and awful entities, and work out whether they as the Johnny-come-lately-investors are the means by which others profit from.

The risky vs reward scenario here is very clear here if you buy: YOU take the risk and THEY take the reward. As Balance likes to say; Heads they win, Tails you lose.\

Be careful out there people...

[Baa_Baa]

Hey BFG, welcome back. It's been quiet here for a few days without you.

I was genuinely concerned for you, not that you actually took the bait and put all those names in a public forum, but how brazenly you did it, with only a wafer thin veneer of protection for yourself. Volunteering to be a mouthpiece is one thing, but it's your decision who you choose as enemies. This thread needs you though, it will keep the worry-warts, newbies and those lacking the knowledge or ability to form their own opinion, away from VMob. I look forward to how your perspective develops as VMob develops itself.

For my own part, your persistent alarms and Balance's supporting warnings have helped me pause for thought. It's good to pause and think. While not a cathartic experience, I have concluded, or reaffirmed, that for me personally, VMob is a better company than the ones you deride. VMob has better product, better market, better position, better timing, with much better opportunity. In addition, the names you despise really only want to make their fortune, like so many others here and they won't be quitting early, I think they know that VMob is the one.

All the best, I'll continue accumulating VMob, as I really do think it's has the potential to be a great NZ tech success story and I want to be a part of it.

BAA


I have expert legal advice :D :D :D

I also have thought through my words much more carefully than in past years. Can you point me to anything libellous/false/misleading that I have posted? Didn't think so. Everything is based on facts and previous history/actions of said people. You may hate it being a holder, it may be negative (?), but it sure ain't sue'able! And I have every right to say it to protect others. :D

[Joshuatree]

A lot of people thought that about CRP too.Anyways time will tell. To each their own.I can think of many other safer shares on the NZX where i can do well with less risk. cheers

[Baa_Baa]

Hey Josh, no worries, VML is not seeking a concession from a risk averse govt agency staffed with 'not on my watch' members, to dig up the ocean floor and disperse the tailings willy nilly over the striped & spotted almost extinct coral that only inhabits that small niche of the ocean. It's not a very good comparison Josh, did you have a bad day today?

Look, VML is a good company with a very good product, perfectly timed into a willing and humungous market with excellent prospects ahead. It's not too hard to get that. We will all have to wait patiently for VML to produce some hard facts about it's contracts, revenue projections, time to profit .. etc etc, and hopefully before the vilified apparent villains that own it shaft us by exiting early. Which I don't think they will, because they know they got it right this time.

We get it, VML is a penny share. You can easily stand aside and poke the borax, but it's better to just not buy it if you don't get it, don't know or believe it, or just don't want to expose yourself to any risk. No ones going to give you grief if you don't buy VML.

If you want a piece of the action though, at 1 and 6 tenths of a cent today, and can live with the risk, well just get on board. If you don't, just wait until it's a certainty and pay five, ten or twenty more times over the odds today. It's simple really.

BAA




A lot of people thought that about CRP too.Anyways time will tell. To each their own.I can think of many other safer shares on the NZX where i can do well with less risk. cheers

[Joshuatree]

I have to ask what your connection to this company is besides being a shareholder. It seems you are very close to management and the company if so what role ,tasks, contracts ,work, representation do you do.? Full disclosure please.Thankyou

[Baa_Baa]

Josh, you're up late, me too .. it's the best time to think, especially when you have a day job.

I'm just shareholder. I was introduced to VMob early in 2013 at an IT industry conference. They were trading at about .033 at the time. I really liked what they had to say and talked to them about it, which reinforced my confidence that they were nicely poised. So I kept an eye on the share price and obviously it was waning ... so I waited, and researched, and waited .. and waited some more. Finally the SP got to under .015 and that was in spite of a stream of good news. So I started buying .. my average is 0.013 at present. I'm still a minor shareholder in the scheme of things.

I've already said here that I'm an IT industry veteran and for that reason and from my experience, I feel confident that they have the product, management, market potential and financial support to rise to greater heights. I think VMob have a great product in the right place and at the right time. Other than that I have no connections or inside knowledge.

VML represents a small % of my portfolio, it is my one of two speculative shares, WYN is the other. I do think that of all the tech stocks, that VML has the best potential off its current SP base.

I reiterate though, that along with all the warnings here, VML is at present still speculative. I'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that and am happy to support a growing NZ tech success story.

Cheers
BAA


I have to ask what your connection to this company is besides being a shareholder. It seems you are very close to management and the company if so what role ,tasks, contracts ,work, representation do you do.? Full disclosure please.Thankyou

[Baa_Baa]

https://nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260538

[robbo24]

https://nzx.com/companies/VML/announcements/260538

It says Tim Cook holds the qualification of "MInstD":

What is MInstD? Is it MASTER OF INSIDER TRADING?

HO HO HO :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Baa_Baa]

MInstD, Member Institute of Directors.

for those that might not know.

[winner69]

It says Tim Cook holds the qualification of "MInstD":

What is MInstD? Is it MASTER OF INSIDER TRADING?

HO HO HO :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Good one robbo ---- but there be some good MInstD people even though they are party to insider knowlwdge

[winner69]

Wow you thought I was PT - I must be smart :D

Must still be hung over from celebrating the ERA decision yesterday

Of course you not PT

[robbo24]

Good one robbo ---- but there be some good MInstD people even though they are party to insider knowlwdge

Name one, then?