View Full Version : Gold
POSSUM THE CAT
07-09-2011, 10:37 AM
Skol when this happens it will probably cost you $100000.00 to buy a sandwich.
Gold is in a mania.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/how-to-deflate-a-gold-bubble-that-might-not-even-exist
Gold's looking bullish
Not right now.
Toulouse - Luzern
07-09-2011, 07:58 PM
Every stock in the ASX 20 up today except Newcrest Mining down .6%.
elZorro
07-09-2011, 08:05 PM
Every stock in the ASX 20 up today except Newcrest Mining down .6%.
But surely we should be looking over more than a one-day window? Some goldies will have a difficult time while others do well. While I've been roasted once or twice over OGC and their downtrend on the back of a 20-bagger ramp up, they have just been admitted to the NZX50. So that's virtually a guarantee of a boost in SP until balance day at least. I think NCM have been looking overvalued for awhile, whereas OGC is undervalued. I have little doubt that many will be buying physical gold on any major dips in the meanwhile.
That's what the goldbugs call 'backing the truck up" EZ, go for it.
Toulouse - Luzern
07-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Hi El Zorro
Thanks for your reply:
"But surely we should be looking over more than a one-day window?"
Agreed.
I nearly commented in my earler post that I had compared NCM with the EFTS GOLD on the ASX in DB Supercharts over 3 yrs, 2yrs, 1yr, 6 mths, 3 mths and 1 month and NCM and GOLD with NEM on the NYSE.
I also compared NCM and GOLD on the ASX with NEM on the NYSE.
My broad brush review showed over 3 years NCM and GOLD share price were about even at +80%.
In shorter timeframes GOLD has soared compared with for example NCM the miner and NEM. Others have commented on this on CNBC etc ...
Regarding an OGC NCM comparison, I see what you mean, as NCM is about 40% more in SP growth over 1 year compared with OGC.
dumbass
07-09-2011, 10:34 PM
I have been watching gold for quite a while and its starting to look like an intermediate top may be in and will very
cautiously have a nibble from the short side with a target of 1500.
No mania JB? Check this out.
www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/5578420/Gold-fever-sweeps-the-criminal-underworld
elZorro
08-09-2011, 07:14 AM
I have been watching gold for quite a while and its starting to look like an intermediate top may be in and will very
cautiously have a nibble from the short side with a target of 1500.
1500's a long way back, there is mention that this latest drop is profit-taking, the market covering losses elsewhere. http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20110906JW_pm.html
Your strategy will work if the US$ continues to strengthen. At the moment it's close to the upper limit of its recent (trading) range. What if there's more QE?
Back the truck up all right, Gaddafi did: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8745665/Libya-Mystery-of-Gaddafi-and-the-gold-laden-convoy-crossing-the-desert-to-Niger.html
dumbass
08-09-2011, 09:12 AM
i think gold may have completed a major wave up ( third wave ) and now will correct in a fourth wave before resuming a run up to 2800.
i know im playing with fire and will be very cautious with any short trades but the correction is often very sharp after extended parabolic run ups like this.
i think the us dollar has bottomed for the moment and see bulish dollar patterns in a lot of the dollar crosses.
my target is 1480 , the waves are overlapping and could be a double top in place but caution warranted.
elZorro
08-09-2011, 09:54 AM
i think gold may have completed a major wave up ( third wave ) and now will correct in a fourth wave before resuming a run up to 2800.
i know im playing with fire and will be very cautious with any short trades but the correction is often very sharp after extended parabolic run ups like this.
i think the us dollar has bottomed for the moment and see bulish dollar patterns in a lot of the dollar crosses.
my target is 1480 , the waves are overlapping and could be a double top in place but caution warranted.
Ah Hah, DA, I see you're an EWT convert! I'm sure Vtrader would like to have a chat with you. And now getting back to the real world (just kidding!!:))) there are quite a few miners gearing up to extract the low grade deposits they have in their mothballed mines or perimeters. That all assumes the PoG keeps up where it is. As I've said before, watch for big miners to start hedging their output. They aren't yet. What does that say?
JBmurc
08-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Gold miners great buying (too right)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wealth/gold-miners-are-sitting-on-a-pretty-penny/story-e6frgac6-1226128337586
elZorro
08-09-2011, 10:33 PM
Gold miners great buying (too right)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wealth/gold-miners-are-sitting-on-a-pretty-penny/story-e6frgac6-1226128337586
Hi JB, this just turned up, a nice cheery list of reasons to be a goldbug at the moment.
http://www.incrediblecharts.com/tradingdiary/2011-09-08-markets-gold-forex.php
One of the indications of a speculative mania is the appearance of the fraudsters.
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10750454
and:
www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10750391
A new generation of suckers getting cleaned out, surprise, surprise.
Caveat emptor, punters never learn.
Quote: "It's a strange quirk of the bullion trade that sales tend to soar when prices are high".
LOL, fancy that, the moms and dads about to lose their shirts. (again)
Yep people not doing their due diligence (similar to the finance companies) and sticking too many eggs in one basket.
Its repeated so many times. Looking for the easy $
elZorro
09-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Yep people not doing their due diligence (similar to the finance companies) and sticking too many eggs in one basket.
Its repeated so many times. Looking for the easy $
Hi Cam and Skol, that's not all the thread is about. Last time gold peaked, the goldmining shares kept going up for months later, as their good results filtered through on quarterly reports. It will be no different this time.
'Gold looks very overvalued' - that's for sure, from The Economist.
Higher education and gold
Mar 9th 2011, 10:56 by Buttonwood
..
MANY thanks to the commenters on yesterday's post who suggested that the cost of higher education might be a good store of value against which to measure the progress of gold. As the passport to career success (although not for entrepreneurs) in the developed world, higher education does seem a pretty good indicator.
Commonfund publishes an index of US higher education costs going all the way back to 1961 while the average annual gold price can be found here. To aid calculation, the two figures were roughly similar in 1971 when the US went off the gold standard; the higher education index was at 42.1 while gold was $40.62 an ounce. Since then, the higher education index has risen sevenfold while gold has risen almost 36-fold. On that basis, gold looks very overvalued.
That might be an unfair basis of comparison since the gold price was artificially held down by central banks before 1971. If we start from the 1980 bullion peak of $615 an ounce (the average for the year) gold has risen 133% while education costs have risen 264%.
Perhaps it is is fairer to use a multi-year average. If we use the mean for 1980-2000, then gold has risen 279% while higher education is up 102%. On that basis, gold looks overvalued or, to put it another way, has anticipated a lot of inflation that has yet to occur
JBmurc
09-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Obama speech well underway ---big spending roads,schools ,Tax cuts , Tax increases on the rich....Get More fords chevs sold overseas get more jobs through helping US businesses,Ambitious deficit cuts of the 1.4 trillion growing p.a short fall.........................
USA USA ! MORE DEBT WILL FIX IT....yeaa ha
Huang Chung
09-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Obama speech well underway ---big spending roads,schools ,Tax cuts , Tax increases on the rich....Get More fords chevs sold overseas get more jobs through helping US businesses,Ambitious deficit cuts of the 1.4 trillion growing p.a short fall.........................
USA USA ! MORE DEBT WILL FIX IT....yeaa ha
Was noticing the POG increase the longer he spoke.....
JBmurc
09-09-2011, 12:08 PM
Was noticing the POG increase the longer he spoke.....
yeah think the Obama speech was pretty pro-gold as like Bernake's speech didn't actually address any of the real problems....Wars,debt,deficits
how will they pay for the 455bill plan ? -by selling more fords,chevs to south korea LOL an by increasing jobs by giving employers 4k bonus for every new worker they take on thats be unemployed for longer than 6 months
Obama also said America is no longer the best country in the world??
JBmurc
09-09-2011, 04:35 PM
3600
Obama "We want to see South koreans buying Fords , Chevs , jeeps" LOL why would they pay more for yank junk
Marc Faber says gold could reach $10,000, that oughta get the mums and dads heading to the bank to part with their hard-earned tax-paid dollars.
From one of my books;
"Speculative manias are always supported by authoritative opinion that reassures speculators".
Even the 'experts' confound themselves with their own BS.
USD 1.36, looking a little tricky. What happened to the 'dead and buried' USD?
elZorro
10-09-2011, 07:40 AM
Marc Faber says gold could reach $10,000, that oughta get the mums and dads heading to the bank to part with their hard-earned tax-paid dollars.
From one of my books;
"Speculative manias are always supported by authoritative opinion that reassures speculators".
Even the 'experts' confound themselves with their own BS.
USD 1.36, looking a little tricky. What happened to the 'dead and buried' USD?
Hi Skol, if USD and gold go up together, generally that is better for gold in the short term, but we'll see. Here's an article I thought you'd like..maybe you wrote it?
Is gold getting into bubble territory
Simon Hartley — 9 September 2011
Gold is being tipped to push through $US2,000 ($NZ2,320) an ounce by analysts, but several are cautioning about buying into an over-sold bubble.
While global spot prices have risen almost 35% since January, briefly hitting a new record $US1,921/oz on Tuesday (and dipping more than $US42 on Wednesday), the strength of the New Zealand dollar against its US counterpart has undermined potential gains for domestic investors.
Global share market volatility and the possibly of double-dip recessions in the euro-zone and United States have seen gold briefly surpass the $US1900 mark three times in just over two weeks, as investors fled stocks and riskier currencies for the historical safe haven of gold.
Craigs Investment Partners broker Peter McIntyre said while buying gold under $US2,000 still had its merits, investors had to consider the strength of the Kiwi against gold's global rallying price.
"Gold at over $US2,000 an oz is getting into bubble territory," he said.
Gold's popularity has been buoyed by the demise of other safe haven investments, such as US Treasury bonds which are paying almost 0% interest and the Swiss franc, where its Government is fighting to contain its meteoric rise in strength which is threatening its exports and economy.
McIntyre said much of the recent gains in gold's price could be attributed to central banks buying up stocks, which includes the International Monetary Fund having released more than 400 tonnes on the market since late-2009.
While mired in worsening economic woes, the euro-zone was reported at the end of last year to hold the most gold stocks; at 10,792t (CRRT) while beleaguered Italy was ranked fourth in the world with 2451t.
Switzerland's decision to peg its safe-haven franc to the euro may finally see gold prices hit the once-unimaginable $US2,000/oz mark, as the precious metal holds on track for its strongest annual rally in three decades, Reuters reported.
The Swiss National Bank (SNB) shocked global markets on Tuesday this week it said it would buy unlimited quantities of foreign currencies to prevent the franc from rising above 1.20 Swiss francs to the euro, to remedy the franc's ascending strength.
By buying euros in unlimited amounts to weaken the franc, the SNB is in effect putting more of its own currency into circulation, which threatens to trigger inflation.
Much of gold's rise this year, at present up 34 percent since January and on track for its largest yearly gain since 1979, has been fuelled by cheap cash, provided chiefly by Western central banks battling debt piles large enough to derail global growth.
The $US2,000 mark is now coming clearly into view, though its sustainability at that level is unclear.
Natixis strategist Nic Brown said there was no reason why gold couldn't go through $US2,000, but not a long way through.
"This explosion in liquidity creates demand for gold and creates the perception for gold prices to go higher. But ultimately, this is a bubble fuelled by liquidity," one commentator said.
*Simon Hartley is senior business reporter for the Otago Daily Times.
Depends how bad liquidity gets, I guess. Plotting the gold price on a semi-log scale puts a more human aspect to it. Everyone wants their percentage increase.
I can see why Simon Hartley quotes Nic Brown of Natixis, see this well-rounded article from June 2010 about gold.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/72/529/Yesterdays_Top_Story:_Gold_could_fall_below_1000_b y_year_end_-_Natixis.html and reference article.
(http://m.ibtimes.com/gold-swiss-france-euro-209337.html)While gold did the opposite in the year ahead, still some good reasoning there. Watching to see if miners start hedging again might be a really good indicator for the demise of any 'gold bubble'.
DOW down 300 odd overnight, not looking good. http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1075/672/Sprott_-_silver_is_a_30_bagger_from_here.html
JBmurc
10-09-2011, 10:30 AM
yeah Dow pukes again glad I've got much of my portfolio in gold/silver with Gold 1770oz Silver 38oz+ AUD the producers are making a mint ,much better that the likes of PDN LOL
Too little,too late Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubFemuYG8hY
Obamas 455bill spend up is just more of the same rubbish ....Out of control.Fiat money/Fractional banking is the biggest bubble the world has ever seen not that many decades ago we didn't have much if all derivatives now there is over 600 trillion fiat dollars worth floating round...Gold is working inverse to this Fiat bubble...every day the world Fiat money power create millions of new dollars every day humans on earth create millions of new fiat dollars thanks to credit cards , loans........an where not paying them back anywhere as fast as we are creating them just look at Obama's term his latest plan is to spend 455bill now the deficit is already going be 1.4trillion for the year why not spend some more that'll fix it......nothing in detail in his speech about reducing the deficit just spend more...keep digging
Here's are break down of the obama speech LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0zIxu6Lr0
Huang Chung
10-09-2011, 11:25 AM
A true bubble is one fueled by debt (like a stock market or real estate bubble). Gold (by and large) is a safe haven for existing wealth, not debt.
denpal
10-09-2011, 11:58 AM
This is a very interesting observation by Leeb.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/9/9_Stephen_Leeb_-_Expect_Enormous_Gains_in_Gold_%26_Silver.html
Stephen Leeb - Expect Enormous Gains in Gold & Silver
9 September 2011
With continued volatility in gold & silver, today King World News interviewed acclaimed money manager Stephen Leeb to get his thoughts on gold, silver and what is happening with the Fed. When asked about the comments by Chicago Fed Governor Charles Evens, Leeb responded, “It’s the first time, at least in my lifetime and I think in the history of the Fed, where they have said explicitly that fighting unemployment is much more important than worrying about inflation. That’s a very big deal. When people think of central banks they think of one thing, controlling inflation.”
Stephen Leeb continues:
“Evans said a couple of days ago, ‘We are going to pay attention to our dual mandate, which is unemployment and inflation, and for the time being, unemployment is a much more important factor. We’re going to let inflation go for a while.’ That to me is huge, here we have the Fed picking up the mantel and saying, ‘We’re going to do whatever it takes to get unemployment down and if that involves higher inflation, so be it, we’re going to accept it.’
My message to people is get ready for a major change in the American economy because they are not going to be able to get unemployment down that much, without tolerating much higher inflation and I mean much higher. Commodity prices are likely to go through the roof.
The mother of all deflations in this country was in the ‘30s and following the Second World War we had inflation of 20% in 1947, the highest in modern times. This time around I don’t think we are going to stop (inflation) at 20%, I don’t think we are going to stop at 30%, it will be massive inflation.
Bernanke is saying, ‘We are going to use aggressive financial tools to get this economy going, to get unemployment down.’ If you put his comments in the context of inflation, already running above 40 year averages, it’s an incredibly strong statement and I think it backs up what I am saying about the Evans speech being a point of inflection.
We are going to have to except much, much higher inflation or risk a massive depression, something that could make the 1930s look like a picnic....
When asked about the implications for the gold market Leeb replied, “What this says is that the rally in gold has just started. We haven’t had the inflation yet. What we’ve had right now is an appetizer for what’s to come in the gold and precious metals markets.
Gold is going to go much, much higher and silver is headed into triple digits, that’s just the way it is. Gold is going to become the asset of choice in this country and right now it is not even considered to be an asset class (by the mainstream). It will be ‘the’ asset class in the next several years. You’re looking at things you don’t even want to think about because if you say what could happen, people look at you like you’re a lunatic.
We did a calculation and we valued all of the gold shares that are available to buy today, from Barrick to GoldCorp, even including GLD (the gold ETF) and we came up with a number that is maybe a little bit higher than the valuation of Apple. One stock basically matches the value of all of the gold that you can buy on the public market in the United States.
The potential (for gains) is enormous, simply enormous, and for these junior gold stocks, the ones that have the wherewithal to increase production, you don’t even want to put targets on them. You just want to say you are looking at a multi-bagger.”
A true bubble is one fueled by debt (like a stock market or real estate bubble). Gold (by and large) is a safe haven for existing wealth, not debt.
Tell that to the suckers that lost their shirts in 1980, but I suppose 'it's different this time' HC?
www.washingtonpost.com/business/investors-warned-about-gold-bubble/2011/08/20/gIQAJfaUjJ_story.html
elZorro
10-09-2011, 01:32 PM
Tell that to the suckers that lost their shirts in 1980, but I suppose 'it's different this time' HC?
www.washingtonpost.com/business/investors-warned-about-gold-bubble/2011/08/20/gIQAJfaUjJ_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/investors-warned-about-gold-bubble/2011/08/20/gIQAJfaUjJ_story.html)
"Gold is not a silver bullet" that's a good one. But Skol, since this article was written, the Swiss Franc has been tied to another currency (so is losing its safe haven status), and the Feds are saying that more employment is suddenly more important than low inflation. These are step changes to monetary policy that won't hurt gold at all. True, the US$ has beaten a track upwards for now, but gold didn't go backwards like you'd expect. Any more loose fiscal policy will devalue the US$ further, even if it does push stocks and houses back up.
If the article Denpal posted is even partly right, gold stocks and gold bars are a good investment for now (in moderation).
Huang Chung
10-09-2011, 01:46 PM
Geez Skol, do you have some scar from being caught in a bubble or something?
How can you keep banging on like you do, month after month, year after year, and be so wrong. You're like the boy who cried wolf.....sell gold, it's a bubble, sell gold, it's a bubble.....every 5 freakin' minutes. Meanwhile, gold just keep chuggin along, and the global financial outlook just keeps getting murkier by the day.
One day you might be right, but by then, will anyone be listening?
Lego_Man
10-09-2011, 02:01 PM
Geez Skol, do you have some scar from being caught in a bubble or something?
How can you keep banging on like you do, month after month, year after year, and be so wrong. You're like the boy who cried wolf.....sell gold, it's a bubble, sell gold, it's a bubble.....every 5 freakin' minutes. Meanwhile, gold just keep chuggin along, and the global financial outlook just keeps getting murkier by the day.
One day you might be right, but by then, will anyone be listening?
Noone is listening right now.
If someone ordered him on pain of death to stop posting in this thread, i dont think he'd be able to.
Noone is listening right now.
If someone ordered him on pain of death to stop posting in this thread, i dont think he'd be able to.
I will then.
Goldbugs hate contrarians, I might come back when the inevitable happens, which won't be very long.
elZorro
10-09-2011, 04:01 PM
I think you stepped over the line Lego Man, Skol has made it clear he's still undecided about the direction of the gold price in the short term. He's quite correct in warning us not to bet the house on the gold price. Everyone's waiting for gold stocks to reindex themselves to the gold price, but if there is a general crash in stocks, the goldies will follow them down like they did in 2008, even though it wasn't sensible. Most businesses need credit, and if the banks close up shop it won't help anyone. Besides, this thread would be no fun at all without hearing the other side.
JBmurc
10-09-2011, 04:41 PM
I think you stepped over the line Lego Man, Skol has made it clear he's still undecided about the direction of the gold price in the short term. He's quite correct in warning us not to bet the house on the gold price. Everyone's waiting for gold stocks to reindex themselves to the gold price, but if there is a general crash in stocks, the goldies will follow them down like they did in 2008, even though it wasn't sensible. Most businesses need credit, and if the banks close up shop it won't help anyone. Besides, this thread would be no fun at all without hearing the other side.
maybe el but I've noticed of late while the Dow an ASX have dropped my Gold shares have followed the Gold price an not the general market ...as even say the Gold price held 1800-2000 over the next year but the DOW fell 10-20% I'd much rather hold my Gold shares than not as must of them aren't expensive with forward P.E 1-3
corran
10-09-2011, 08:44 PM
I will then.
Goldbugs hate contrarians, I might come back when the inevitable happens, which won't be very long.
I'm a bit of a gold bug and I'd miss yer posts Skol!
Interesting development with the Swiss Franc / Euro peg earlier in the week. I reckon there's a lot more of this sort of monetary policy to come from the central banks of so called 'safe haven' currencies and this will help fuel a continued rise in gold & silver.
Very interesting times.
JBmurc
12-09-2011, 08:07 PM
I will then.
Goldbugs hate contrarians, I might come back when the inevitable happens, which won't be very long.
Investor that believe Gold is an has always been a great store of value make up the minority so are the true contrarians of the market place, the likes of yourself Skol have the view of masses that think what even the Mass media tells them to think...
I personal can't understand smart people that can't think for themselves on the current world Debt woes ...
World Central banks shouldn't be the controllers of money,but the free elected government of the people these days government bent over to what ever the Privately owned Central banks want!!
Is the reason why investor like Gold n Silver the private central banks can't make it out of thin air
elZorro
14-09-2011, 09:53 PM
Colin Twiggs' latest post: we have two choices as per usual. Gold could go up quite a bit, or go down quite a bit. But no denying which direction is more likely, gold is in a super-trend at the moment.
http://www.incrediblecharts.com/tradingdiary/2011-09-14-gold-forex.php (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/tradingdiary/2011-09-14-gold-forex.php)
There sure are some radically different opinions out there...H S dent August update[google]....Wikileaks :china converting US debt to gold--Talk about the 2 sides to the [gold]coin
elZorro
20-09-2011, 07:56 PM
There sure are some radically different opinions out there...H S dent August update[google]....Wikileaks :china converting US debt to gold--Talk about the 2 sides to the [gold]coin
Can you please post the article Skid? There are a few goldbugs getting bored here, while we wait for the inevitable ramp back up past $1900 and onto the glory of $2,000/oz, or is that just being hopeful?
im not very good with links but you can google either of these things easily-sorry,i should brush up on my computer skills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHu02zN0p8 heres the pessimistic side of the coin
http://maoistrebelnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/china-converting-us-debt-to-gold-wikileaks/ and heres the more positive side..well for gold at least---thank goodness for teenage daughters and their computer skills
elZorro
21-09-2011, 08:36 PM
http://maoistrebelnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/china-converting-us-debt-to-gold-wikileaks/ and heres the more positive side..well for gold at least---thank goodness for teenage daughters and their computer skills
But now you know how to do it Skid, looking forward to more posts with links:) .
Harry Dent on youtube, I don't think Skol likes that guy, you'll have to be careful..says sell gold and silver, it's peaked most likely. He didn't get around to saying why.
The wordpress file, not too sure on the reasoning there either, and wordpress is free to set up a blog on, so I don't know how seriously the posters take their cause.
In a world where just about everything seems to have a sinking valuation, where can you put your savings..if enough think it's in gold or silver, we'll be OK on this thread.
Where to put savings--Thats definitely the big question.--Im finding the sharemarket a bit scarey ATM but do hold a bit of gold and silver as ''insurance''--Yea that H S Dent has some pretty frightening thoeries,that require pretty drastic action-He is firmly in the ''deflation''camp He has been wrong before,and im hopeing he is wrong again.--Skol may not like him but they are both in the same camp as far as US Dollars go.
yeah Dow pukes again glad I've got much of my portfolio in gold/silver with Gold 1770oz Silver 38oz+ AUD the producers are making a mint ,much better that the likes of PDN LOL
So how much are you down overnite? NZ$11,500+?
Glad I don't own silver or gold, ^HUI down 7%, wait for the gold/silver stock massacre later today. Glad I'm in cash. Who said gold stocks are cheap? LOL
Didn't have to wait long at all, the PM scene could get real ugly from here, a double top, the party's over.
elZorro
23-09-2011, 07:14 AM
Gidday Skol,
Some talk on the web that the lower gold price at the moment is driven by traders covering their losses elsewhere, and selling their gold and silver hedge investments. Last time there was a big drop, it rallied very quickly. Should be plenty waiting to buy gold at a better price than recently. Maybe you're right about the US$, or is it just in better shape than most around it?
This from Adam Hewison:
http://club.ino.com/trading/2011/09/this-russian-economist-died-by-firing-squad-but-he-had-the-answer-the-fed-and-washington-are-looking-for/
JBmurc
23-09-2011, 08:34 AM
Crazy times for the Markets an USD Gold price but checkout the AUD gold price up at $1780oz thats a great price for AUD producers that will be sold off like the world is ending today .....even the soon to be producers like CVR that price in USD will be better of as they will pay wages in KAZ dollars which I'm sure is also dropping like a stone to the USD .....their planned costs to produce their start-up 25koz gold less silver credits round $100-200 per oz Oh no gold is now in the mid 1700's LOL.......................just like 2008 watch the bounce it will rip the doors off $2000oz on the way through to 2500oz.....Q.E comming to the Euro an USA
dumbass
23-09-2011, 08:55 AM
i think gold may have completed a major wave up ( third wave ) and now will correct in a fourth wave before resuming a run up to 2800.
i know im playing with fire and will be very cautious with any short trades but the correction is often very sharp after extended parabolic run ups like this.
i think the us dollar has bottomed for the moment and see bulish dollar patterns in a lot of the dollar crosses.
my target is 1480 , the waves are overlapping and could be a double top in place but caution warranted.
for what its worth , as much as i am short this still looks like a correction in the main trend , my target is a little higher
looking aroung 1650 - 1700 and then this should be an excellent long entry.
moggie
23-09-2011, 10:22 AM
This question must have been asked many times but I can't seem to find it in on the threads and that is which are the best places places to buy gold in NZ specifically Auckland.
Not Bullion Buyer, it's been in the news for all the wrong reasons.
You could have a look at kitco in the usa-canada--they will insure and ship---I originally bought from New Zealand Mint,but I hear they have gotten a bit silly with their prices---ofcourse there is always Trade me--by watching what gold coins sell for,you can get an idea which is better between them and kitco
moggie
23-09-2011, 02:42 PM
Skol - "Not Bullion Buyer, it's been in the news for all the wrong reasons".
skid - "You could have a look at kitco in the usa-canada--they will insure and ship---I originally bought from New Zealand Mint,but I hear they have gotten a bit silly with their prices---ofcourse there is always Trade me--by watching what gold coins sell for,you can get an idea which is better between them and kitco "
Thanks guys I will have a look into it.
JBmurc
23-09-2011, 06:25 PM
So how much are you down overnite? NZ$11,500+?
Glad I don't own silver or gold, ^HUI down 7%, wait for the gold/silver stock massacre later today. Glad I'm in cash. Who said gold stocks are cheap? LOL
Didn't have to wait long at all, the PM scene could get real ugly from here, a double top, the party's over.
So Gold's run is over going to be next to worthless SKOL LOL..think you need to wake up if you think GOLD's going back to sub $1000 without some major interest rate increases etc ......maybe you need to look back an see what the gold price did during 2008-09 big sell-off followed by a big move north.
In the mean time USD Gold is $1733 AUD $1773 which if you go back to the start of this thread is really a great price for all involved...esp if you a low cost producer
JBmurc
23-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Skol - "Not Bullion Buyer, it's been in the news for all the wrong reasons".
skid - "You could have a look at kitco in the usa-canada--they will insure and ship---I originally bought from New Zealand Mint,but I hear they have gotten a bit silly with their prices---ofcourse there is always Trade me--by watching what gold coins sell for,you can get an idea which is better between them and kitco "
Thanks guys I will have a look into it.
For where to buy yes your've got the trademe sella personal I would go to the likes of- http://www.regal.co.nz/bullion.php or http://www.buy-silver-gold-bullion.com/ both these guys will give you the best deals every day there is many round worth looking into I've brought over 500oz of silver just off Trademe 40-50 different buys without one problem..
JBmurc
23-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Worth a watch a good run down on the history behind the current US federal reserve money system -an the pull away from honest money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my9-yMnaXoM
elZorro
24-09-2011, 07:04 AM
Gold still dropping this morning, has dropped over 10% for the week, but silver has dropped a lot more, suggesting it is not held enough by strong hands, who would not have sold into this at such a rate.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30596.html
Just as well most gold miners have used a conservative gold price in their calculations, but I'm not expecting the HUI to keep trending up at this stage. Cash is king?
This just in, on main trends from Adam Hewison. All are (short and intermediate) downward trends. Even oil.. Skol is going to be right this week.
http://club.ino.com/trading/2011/09/so-whats-ahead/
Yep, it's a 1980 redux, silver down 25% overnite, and a real horror story for PM speculators once they wake up.
It was 18% but theres no getting away from the fact shes a pretty volatile market out there--Right now everyone is scared and going back to those old habit patterns of taking refuge in $us-Time will tell whether this is still a safe option.
Vtrader
24-09-2011, 10:52 AM
Possible this is an EWT 'flat' correction.
If this completes then $USD2000+ is achieveable
Depends on your optimism/pessimism.
Unsure as yet so I have not bet the farm on this one.
A watching brief.
V.
What will happen when the ETF's start dumping hundreds of tons of gold and silver next week?
Bet it's a scary weekend for Theresa Gattung.
JBmurc
25-09-2011, 09:53 PM
What will happen when the ETF's start dumping hundreds of tons of gold and silver next week?
Bet it's a scary weekend for Theresa Gattung.
Nothing much as they don't hold much if any real Gold bullion....JPM runs the biggest Silver ETF they are also well known to hold one of the largest Naked short position in silver talk about conflict of interest....(or more so smart illegal use of investors funds).....
i.e they personal don't hold anywhere near the amount of Real Silver their short....An they run the biggest so called holding of Silver bullion in the world that ETF holders own but can never at anytime access or see... they can only even get their money back an not take any of the so called masses of real silver Bullion they invested in !!
ETF FACT - If you don't hold it you don't own it..
This question must have been asked many times but I can't seem to find it in on the threads and that is which are the best places places to buy gold in NZ specifically Auckland.
There is also a new bullion only site, Bullion Market, I have been buying off it lately, same sellers you will find on other sites (TM... sella..) but its just for bullion. Some good prices on there at the moment after the recent falls.
Nothing much as they don't hold much if any real Gold bullion
As of 25th June 2010 physically backed ETF's held 2062 tonnes of gold in total.
iShares silver trust alone held 360,000,000 oz of silver as at April 10 2011.
elZorro
26-09-2011, 08:24 AM
What if all of this gold drop is just investors/traders covering their losses in the main markets? Many will have hedged with gold. Of course gold will have to keep parity with oil in the medium term too. As I'm bullish on the oil price medium term, I'd expect a return to higher gold prices once the weak hands have disappeared. Any talk of QE3 will also boost gold.
What if all of this gold drop is just investors/traders covering their losses in the main markets? Many will have hedged with gold. Of course gold will have to keep parity with oil in the medium term too. As I'm bullish on the oil price medium term, I'd expect a return to higher gold prices once the weak hands have disappeared. Any talk of QE3 will also boost gold.
What if it was investors selling to cover increased margin requirements? Say hikes of (http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/files/Chadv11-345.pdf)gold margins by 21%, silver by 16% and copper by 18%.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/case-closed-cme-hikes-gold-silver-copper-margins
P (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/case-closed-cme-hikes-gold-silver-copper-margins)ersonally I cant see a market going any other way then it did with margin changes like this.
Forget gold and silver, they're headed back to the mean, best way to make, or should I say, save, money at the moment, pay off debt.
Forget gold and silver, they're headed back to the mean, best way to make, or should I say, save, money at the moment, pay off debt.
I agree with paying off debt, no point owing money that is costing you every day. However that only helps on an individual level.
If everyone paid off their debt their would be no 'money' left as is it a debt instrument itself. Money (currency) is created through the issuing of debt.
In NZ private institutions create 80% plus of the money, how do they do that, they are not allowed to print notes thats for sure. So if everyone started paying off their debt then their would be a massive contraction of the money supply. Money (currency) needs more money (currency) creation to keep it going.
Forget gold and silver as a commodity, yes absolutely, debt is becoming a huge problem and when people cant afford to buy products with silver in them, industrial use will decrease.
Forget gold and silver as an investment, yes absolutely, well actually it never was as it isnt income generating.
Forget gold and silver as real money, now that is where things change, gold and silver will be money once again, debt backed money/currency has failed, as a store of value it has done a terrible job. And that is a requirement of money. Im not looking ahead to a future where I sell silver for paper, but rather where I use it as money.
JBmurc
26-09-2011, 10:48 AM
NZ Floating Debt/loan interest rate 5.7% Inflation 5%
The Periodic table's symbol for silver is Ag and Argentum is also Latin for 'Payment' (I believe)...
The root of the Latin word argentum is argent, meaning money.
elZorro
26-09-2011, 10:57 PM
What if it was investors selling to cover increased margin requirements? Say hikes ofgold margins by 21%, silver by 16% and copper by 18%.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/case-closed-cme-hikes-gold-silver-copper-margins
P (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/case-closed-cme-hikes-gold-silver-copper-margins)ersonally I cant see a market going any other way then it did with margin changes like this.
Good point, this also occurred a few weeks ago didn't it?
Pay off debt--economics 101,but its amazing how many people neglect this basic ''law of survival''these days [and even take on more debt]
JBmurc
27-09-2011, 09:19 AM
think we've seen the bottom in the sell-off in PGM with the very sharp spike lower to 1540 to then bounce strong pushing it at present 1620 Gold & Silver should form a base an move higher once again , keeping to the long term bull trend ...2,000 should be crossed late this year IMHO
BIRMANBOY
27-09-2011, 09:37 AM
Forget gold and silver as real money, now that is where things change, gold and silver will be money once again, debt backed money/currency has failed, as a store of value it has done a terrible job. And that is a requirement of money. Im not looking ahead to a future where I sell silver for paper, but rather where I use it as money.
To dream the impossible dream my friend....How can that possibly work??? Money is something used by people to trade for things they need....for money to be viable it has to be able to be accessed and held and be tradeable by billions of people worldwide...if its not accessable by everyone then it fails the test. there just isnt enough physical supply for silver to be "money". Of course it could work if all the gold and silver traders gathered in one spot and traded amongst themselves..maybe you could buy a small impoverished down at heels country ...oh I know like Greece.
To dream the impossible dream my friend....How can that possibly work??? Money is something used by people to trade for things they need....for money to be viable it has to be able to be accessed and held and be tradeable by billions of people worldwide...if its not accessable by everyone then it fails the test. there just isnt enough physical supply for silver to be "money". Of course it could work if all the gold and silver traders gathered in one spot and traded amongst themselves..maybe you could buy a small impoverished down at heels country ...oh I know like Greece.
Gold and silver have been money for centuries, all across the world. They were picked as money because of their properties and how well it fits the definition of money.
There is plenty of physical supply, its just the price that will need to adjust.
Why do you think it is not able to be traded everywhere? Zimbabwe, having learnt what happens when you print to much currency, now has no currency, but is able to conduct trade in gold, in villages in the middle of nowhere.
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM
The world agreed to use the US dollar as the reserve currency because it was convertable to gold, the reason this was stopped was because too much currency was being printed and people wanted the gold instead, because it cant be printed. And printed and printed currency has been.
Currency in its current form, pretending to be money has only been around for 40 or so years, and already its starting to fall apart, look at the mess we have all around the world.
The real dream is to think that currency is going to last in its current form. Just like all the paper money that has been before, the current versions are heading to their inevitable value, zero.
Pay off debt--economics 101,but its amazing how many people neglect this basic ''law of survival''these days [and even take on more debt]
I think you can put that one down to advertising and everyone brainwashed into thinking they need so many useless new things NOW. Add to that the loss of any incentive to save because of low interest rates, and that if you save you are losing purchasing power constantly....
JBmurc
27-09-2011, 01:22 PM
Well this is the thing in the US today I see savings rate for 6 month .69%--- 1yr 1.8%--- an you can get a 30yr fixed rate mortgage for 4%.........
Now put that in context with say a start-up Gold producer like CVR that has a market value of 27mill
- once in full start up production (couple months away) will have earnings over 20mill+ p.a an further out couple years once second plant is running closer to 80mill earnings using a $1500oz USD Gold price .....Now I'd be more than happy to pay anyone 4% p.a to invest in the likes of CVR (curently I have to pay 5.7%)
think we've seen the bottom in the sell-off in PGM with the very sharp spike lower to 1540 to then bounce strong pushing it at present 1620 Gold & Silver should form a base an move higher once again , keeping to the long term bull trend ...2,000 should be crossed late this year IMHO
3616yeh silver did a hammer which could indicate a strong support zone.
elZorro
27-09-2011, 08:32 PM
This from Franklin (Colonel?) Sanders today.. he's often right..
SILVER (http://silverprice.org/) and GOLD PRICES (http://goldprice.org/) could drop more. My rational mind and the charts tell me that. But my intuition keeps on asking where all that buying was coming from today. A 70 cent silver rise and $31 silver rise in the aftermarket is right stout, no matter how you cut it.
Gently, gently I am starting to buy. Just can't help it, I'm too nervous about silver and gold. Nervous, too, about the unfolding crisis. Of this much I am sure: you are now watching a rare opportunity to buy silver and gold at fire-sale rates.
Friday after markets closed Comex announced it was raising margins on silver and gold contracts. No doubt somebody got that news before the press release and sold in anticipation. But the stories metastisizing on the internet that this proves a conspiracy are just silly. Commodity markets are run for the benefit of the market makers, and it's not in their interest for investors to go bankrupt. They raise margins on EVERY hot market.
JBmurc
27-09-2011, 09:28 PM
checkout Gold 1661 biggest 24hr rise in history of gold
Interesting......
http://www.prisonplanet.com/france-bans-cash-sales-of-gold-silver-over-600.html
JBmurc
27-09-2011, 10:49 PM
Funny haven't heard from skol while gold bouncing the biggest move in history closing in on $140 move north within 24hrs I wouldn't be surprised to see 1700 crossed overnight ......the shorters getting out fast ....a return to the bull trend mean to 2,000 this year...
Xerof
28-09-2011, 10:14 AM
I know I enter this thread at my own peril, but I have two things to say:
Skol is right at least one week every year, never-the-less, I do enjoy the banter.
Fridays sell-off had everything to do with margin increases and nothing to do with fundamentals.
lakedaemonian
28-09-2011, 12:26 PM
I know I enter this thread at my own peril, but I have two things to say:
Skol is right at least one week every year, never-the-less, I do enjoy the banter.
Fridays sell-off had everything to do with margin increases and nothing to do with fundamentals.
Agreed......
I bought BIG between 1550-1600...even though I'm dollar cost averaging UP a good bit.
It continues to be the least bad option out there in my opinion.
--------
What concerns me the most is the future exit strategy.
Having been in silver for 7+ years(in my post history) I followed Eric Janszen's very rare sell signal approx 6 months ago and dumped my paper silver for a 5-7x return.
Physical is a different story......we sold off ALL of our physical silver in recent months as silver prices recovered and we recieved a surprising premium over spot as well...until this recent crash.....fortunately we are only left with less than 5% of our silver holding left and will not sell at this price...we were lucky to exit with the last 10-15% of our physical silver holdings in the weeks prior to the recent silver price crash.
What made me dump my silver......and makes me unlikely to buy back in even down in the high teen's low 20's is what Eric Janszen said...silver is politically irrelevant....gold is not.
While we own a good bit of gold physical locally...the majority is paper gold(allocated/owned physical audited daily and available to trade online).
I'm considering our local physical gold as a worst case insurance policy and accept if/when we sell it...we may not achieve maximum value for it...I'm resigned to that fact.
But over the coming few years(say between now and 2016) I expect to see massive volatility in gold prices as they trend higher.....price swings of over $100 a day may not become a weekly/monthly occurance....but will certainly become more common.
Unless we fall below 1500..which is possible but becoming less likely over time....I think I'm done with the gold accumulation........my emphasis now changes over to future exit strategy in the coming years....to maximize my return/maintain my capital's purchasing power...while minimizing downside risk once the gold boom eventually leads to remonitization and/or bust.
I'm a diehard advocate and follower of Eric Janszen....I'll sooner bet my family's financial security on a person with a near perfect 12+ year track record than Skol.
I'll check back in a year.....the day to day stuff regarding gold is a waste of time.
As you said....the fundamentals have not changed.
For the record....I'm not gold bug....I hate the fact it is the least bad option....but it's the least bad option to protect un-needed funds and keep them liquid until we get some clarity in the global game of monopoly.
Funny haven't heard from skol while gold bouncing the biggest move in history closing in on $140 move north within 24hrs I wouldn't be surprised to see 1700 crossed overnight ......the shorters getting out fast ....a return to the bull trend mean to 2,000 this year...
That's because I've been out fishing and incommunicado. Silver down below 26.70 for a while, but back there soon you can be sure of that, a temporary reprieve from the death sentence. Same for gold.
A continuing series of lower highs and lower lows and I'll bet even you know what that means JB.
Since some here follow Ralph Elliot's theories here's what he says about what might be 'Wave B'.
"Prices reverse higher, which many see as a resumption of the now long-gone bull market".
Next should be Wave C.
"Prices move lower in 5 waves. Volume picks up and by the end of Wave C, almost everyone realises that a bear market is firmly entrenched."
dumbass
28-09-2011, 03:18 PM
he died a long time ago!
STRAT
28-09-2011, 05:14 PM
www.cnbc.com/id/44682274 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/44682274)Thanks Skol.
A reasonable short term analisis I reckon. The Gold chart is pretty ugly eh?
Short term at least.
Not so bad when you look at it over three years though. If it goes below $1500 and stays there you may get your "I told you so" day, all be it a few years on. My guess is its just more FOREX action.
Gold tanking - again. $1599, yep gold's the place to put your heard-earned cash and watch it go down the toilet.
Nothing to do with the USD, it's the same as it was a couple of days ago.
Punters want out, it's as simple as that. The goldbugs are busy blaming someone else, it's not their fault gold's imploding and they're losing heaps, it's someone elses. LOL
I was right, gold was a bubble and it's popped.
elZorro
29-09-2011, 07:20 AM
Gold tanking - again. $1606, yep gold's the place to put your heard-earned cash and watch it go down the toilet.
Nothing to do with the USD, it's the same as it was a couple of days ago.
Punters want out, it's as simple as that. The goldbugs are busy blaming someone else, it's not their fault gold's imploding and they're losing heaps, it's someone elses. LOL
I was right, gold was a bubble and it's popped.
I just had a look at the TSX market index, very similar shape to it overnight so far. What we're seeing could simply be traders (rather than investors) selling their hedge gold at a profit to cover losses in the main markets.
I like the look of Strat's chart. OK, it's linear, not logarithmic, but it shows that at least for now, gold is still in a 10-year uptrend. In any case, gold has dropped about $300 recently, from $1900 at the recent top. 15% down, that's it? A lot of shares have done far worse.
lakedaemonian
29-09-2011, 12:15 PM
www.cnbc.com/id/44682274
The traditional financial media HATE gold.....because their business models aren't configured to profit from it...and in fact gold is their competitive enemy....so what do you expect them to say?
Especially the likes of CNBC......because anyone who has been able to successfully remove the "training wheels" of self-directed financial management...they quickly realise CNBC is for suckers to be slaughtered.
CNBC is financial propaganda.
Personally, I HATE gold.....I would much rather deploy my capital in more high return on investment/equity private businesses as well as diversified alongside other more liquid investments.
But unfortunately, the financial/economic climate is decidedly quite sour....and the medium term forecast is also quite nasty.....so until then.....gold justifiably earns it's title of "least bad option", much like capitalism.
Once the game of global financial monopoly has been reset, the playing field returns to a somewhat level basis, and the currency used in the game to transact regains long-term stability/confidence or is replaced.....then I'll VERY happily bin gold and get back in the game more than I already am.
Like I said.....check back in a year....
The "least bad option", I'd say it was the worst bad option right now.
So who aren't the 'traditional financial media'? Are you saying Daryl Guppy's got it in for gold?
Where are we up to, I'd say the 'fear' stage.
www.steadfastfinances.com/blog/2009/11/14/the-psychology-of-bubbles-using-hindsight-to-examine-why-we-bought-into-the-hype/
lakedaemonian
29-09-2011, 01:24 PM
The "least bad option", I'd say it was the worst bad option right now.
So who aren't the 'traditional financial media'? Are you saying Daryl Guppy's got it in for gold?
Where are we up to, I'd say the 'fear' stage.
www.steadfastfinances.com/blog/2009/11/14/the-psychology-of-bubbles-using-hindsight-to-examine-why-we-bought-into-the-hype/\
I'll reserve comment......not worth my time......let's catch up in a year...see you next September....
elZorro
29-09-2011, 08:44 PM
\
I'll reserve comment......not worth my time......let's catch up in a year...see you next September....
Maybe not quite a year to wait LD: I've been checking this chart (http://home.earthlink.net/~intelligentbear/com-dow-au.htm)every so often, and the resistance line might be hit soon, although in 1980 it just kept going down for awhile. All the time I've been learning about shares, I've been on a hiding to nothing (well, most of the time). Cheers.
STRAT
30-09-2011, 04:29 PM
I like the look of Strat's chart. OK, it's linear, not logarithmic,.This ones Log. Doesnt change the picture much
JBmurc
03-10-2011, 09:35 PM
Good move up for the Gold price 1657oz USD -1711oz AUD ....start of the move back on the bull trend...
elZorro
03-10-2011, 11:26 PM
This ones Log. Doesnt change the picture much
Thanks for the chart Strat. I read this in an Equedia email yesterday, good for gold bulls like JB and myself:
While the selloff in gold and silver has investors nervous, don't be. The selloff was due to many factors such as profit taking and margin requirements. When people lose money on stocks, they sell their strongest investments that have been making money to cover their loses. Gold was merely an innocent bystander. With the recent pullback in precious metals, the buying opportunity looks strong. While it may not be the exact bottom, gold and silver at these levels look very promising. Within a year's time, I fully expect gold to hit $2500 and would not be surprised to see it hit $2000 by the end of this year. In an article published by Bloomberg a few weeks ago, Dylan Grice of Société Générale calculated the "fair value" for gold based on the price at which each dollar in the U.S. monetary base would have been if backed by an ounce of the precious metal. As of June, this price would have exceeded $10,000/oz. While gold and silver sit at these levels, investors will have the opportunity to pick up these precious metal and related stocks at rock bottom prices. That's because sooner or later, certain events will make these precious metals climb higher and faster than they have before...
A flash in the pan, looks as if it's heading south again. USD up.
Gold down 14% and USD up 11% in the last couple of weeks.
What's that mean to the trained mind?
Lucky I've got USD, JPY and GBP.
$10,000 oz, yeah, pigs will fly and I'm winning lotto this weekend.LOL
Well this is the thing in the US today I see savings rate for 6 month .69%--- 1yr 1.8%--- an you can get a 30yr fixed rate mortgage for 4%.........
True, but if yields drop you make a capital gain, could be 8 or 9%.
JBmurc
04-10-2011, 08:13 AM
True, but if yields drop you make a capital gain, could be 8 or 9%.
I was talking about US bank savings rates not bonds ,what yeilds are you getting on your overseas fiat money holdings?
STRAT
04-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Thanks for the chart Strat. I read this in an Equedia email yesterday, good for gold bulls like JB and myself:Hi EZ.
Dunno mate.
Until Greece goes down we will continue this bumpy road sideways I reckon. Until she does finally slide off the cliff we wont know whos going over with her.
When she does, everything will tank. Stocks, gold, Guitar prices.
I just wish theyd get on with it. Im over meetings of world leaders getting together to save her for just another few weeks so they can try and suck a few more drops of blood from the poor. Im sure the Greek people are too.
I was talking about US bank savings rates not bonds ,what yeilds are you getting on your overseas fiat money holdings?
JPY is in a mutual fund, so not going that well, -9% for the year, USD mostly in mutual funds and cash, so very little and GBP about 2%. All liquid though JB, can get out tomorrow and while mutual funds in USD are down, USD going up helping to compensate, I dollar-cost average, so adding to mutual funds each month, have done since 1982.
USD cash I bought at .79.
I don't have debt, but the best option for those that do is pay it off because I can't think of anything better right now.
If you read some of the pages from the Indian papers all is not well with the gold and silver punters on the sub-continent because many of them have borrowed the money to buy PM.
TLS shares doing OK though, a little capital gain and 10%DY. Most spare cash in the bank at 5%.
elZorro
04-10-2011, 09:39 AM
Hi EZ.
Dunno mate.
Until Greece goes down we will continue this bumpy road sideways I reckon. Until she does finally slide off the cliff we wont know whos going over with her.
When she does, everything will tank. Stocks, gold, Guitar prices.
I just wish theyd get on with it. Im over meetings of world leaders getting together to save her for just another few weeks so they can try and suck a few more drops of blood from the poor. Im sure the Greek people are too.
I have to agree Strat, there don't appear to be many safe havens apart from cash, if confidence really goes. We saw that in 2008.
Guess that depends where your cash is and how quickly you can get your hands on it-Remember those ques at the banks in the great depression? But up until that stage,yes, cash is probably a good safe option.10% in gold is still a good way to try and keep all the bases covered.
STRAT
04-10-2011, 12:20 PM
I have to agree Strat, there don't appear to be many safe havens apart from cash, if confidence really goes. We saw that in 2008.Its not all bad. It will of course present a chance to get in near the bottom again for those with an eye on the ball.
Its not all bad. It will of course present a chance to get in near the bottom again for those with an eye on the ball.
If history's anything to go by getting in at the bottom might mean staying there for the next decade or two.
www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb07c11c-edac-11e0-a9a9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Zk5uMwbe
You can ignore the above JB, it's the 'mainstream media'.
How many goldbugs here have a formal economics education? That would be interesting to know.
STRAT
04-10-2011, 05:22 PM
If history's anything to go by getting in at the bottom might mean staying there for the next decade or two.
www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb07c11c-edac-11e0-a9a9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Zk5uMwbe (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb07c11c-edac-11e0-a9a9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Zk5uMwbe)
You can ignore the above JB, it's the 'mainstream media'.
How many goldbugs here have a formal economics education? That would be interesting to know.A flat trendless market place for 10 to 20 years? Reckon not.
That mainstream media link gave a bunch of pop ups and a zillion articles to choose from :(
That mainstream media link gave a bunch of pop ups and a zillion articles to choose from :(
Look mate, I'm begging, please, no one will tell me, it must be secret.
What isn't the 'mainstream media'?
STRAT
04-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Look mate, I'm begging, please, no one will tell me, it must be secret.
What isn't the 'mainstream media'?lol
Bloody good guestion.
Non mainstream would
Report without opinion
Report all sides of a story
Report without agenda
Not be financed by anyone with an opinion or an agenda.
Good luck with your search :D
ps I was just repeating your choice of words. No opinion or agenda here mate......:lol:
lol
Bloody good guestion.
Non mainstream would
Report without opinion
Report all sides of a story
Report without agenda
Not be financed by anyone with an opinion or an agenda.
Good luck with your search :D
ps I was just repeating your choice of words. No opinion or agenda here mate..
Give me an example, or maybe JB can assist.
elZorro
04-10-2011, 06:40 PM
I was just looking at the gold chart on Kitco. Gold has moved up from $1625 to $1665, a $40 jump in well less than 24 hrs. Go back a month or two and that was big news. Back a couple of months and $1600 was big news. Sorry Skol, Gold seems to be holding up at the moment. Not much else is, and you cetainly won't get many gains on cash in any country, on average. They are all creating more of it.
I was just looking at the gold chart on Kitco. Gold has moved up from $1625 to $1665, a $40 jump in well less than 24 hrs. Go back a month or two and that was big news. Back a couple of months and $1600 was big news. Sorry Skol, Gold seems to be holding up at the moment. Not much else is, and you cetainly won't get many gains on cash in any country, on average. They are all creating more of it.
They're creating more gold too, digging it out of the ground, heaps of it at this absurd price.
trackers
04-10-2011, 08:44 PM
If history's anything to go by getting in at the bottom might mean staying there for the next decade or two.
www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb07c11c-edac-11e0-a9a9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Zk5uMwbe (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb07c11c-edac-11e0-a9a9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Zk5uMwbe)
You can ignore the above JB, it's the 'mainstream media'.
How many goldbugs here have a formal economics education? That would be interesting to know.
Economics to tertiary level here, how about yourself Skol??
JBmurc
04-10-2011, 08:59 PM
I see in AUD terms Gold has been a great investment with it's high of the year of $1810oz to the current $1760 with the low of the year of $1310
Aussie gold producers will be announcing some very good numbers from their Quarterlies with the added bonus of much lower fuel costs with oil down 20%+
elZorro
04-10-2011, 09:01 PM
They're creating more gold too, digging it out of the ground, heaps of it at this absurd price.
Yeah, fair enough, I thought you might say that Skol. BTW, never did do economics (does bookkeeping count?). But we'll be expecting a lot more from you Trackers..
I have unearthed evidence that the US$ is in a bubble, and how is it that gold is still going up? One side or another is going to be disappointed.
JBmurc
04-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Yes the USD is going to be one mother of a bubble burst all right after the euro fails....going be one nasty credit crunch in 2012 IMHO...will be a driving force for Gold /Silver to break to new highs which for AUD price only $50 away
Yeah, fair enough, I thought you might say that Skol. BTW, never did do economics (does bookkeeping count?). But we'll be expecting a lot more from you Trackers..
I have unearthed evidence that the US$ is in a bubble, and how is it that gold is still going up? One side or another is going to be disappointed.
You gotta be joking! USD goes up since August 27th and it's a bubble. LOL How about gold going up for 10 years at some colossal rate, now that's a bubble. I expect the USD to get closer to 1:1 with the euro.
Economics to tertiary level here, how about yourself Skol??
Nope, I have no tertiary qualifications, my occupation requires physics, mechanics and maths, I have other qualifications. Most of all my job requires common sense and practicality, something that a large proportion of the population seem to be short of.
Probably goes to prove given a little more time that 99% of goldbugs come from the Peter Schiff and Jim Sinclair School of Shonky Economics. Since there's been no major economic meltdown in my lifetime bar a few crashes, I don't expect one in the near future. History's on my side.
I also think that 99% recurring of goldbugs weren't cognizant re. economic matters in 1980 and keep on wheeling out the 'it's different this time' nonsense, which I'm absolutely sure is going to cost them dearly.
Goldbugs have been crying wolf for years; hyperinflation, economic meltdown, USD extinction, Weimar Republic, Fort Knox is empty ad infinitum.
It's crap.
Articles in the FT by economics professors proclaiming gold is a bubble are rubbished by the goldbugs, most of whom I'm certain aren't that well educated given some of the spelling and punctuation, and given that the same data is available to the professors as it is to the goldbugs I'll put my money on the professors and economists from the 'mainstream media'.
elZorro
04-10-2011, 10:14 PM
Nope, I have no tertiary qualifications, my occupation requires physics, mechanics and maths, I have other qualifications. Most of all my job requires common senseand practicality, something that a large proportion of the population seem to be short of.
Probably goes to prove given a little more time that 99% of goldbugs come from the Peter Schiff and Jim Sinclair School of Shonky Economics. Since there's been no major economic meltdown in my lifetime bar a few crashes, I don't expect one in the near future. History's on my side.
I also think that 99% recurring of goldbugs weren't cognizant re. economic matters in 1980 and keep on wheeling out the 'it's different this time' nonsense, which I'm absolutely sure is going to cost them dearly.
Goldbugs have been crying wolf for years; hyperinflation, economic meltdown, USD extinction, Weimar Republic, Fort Knox is empty ad infinitum.
It's crap.
Articles in the FT by economics professors proclaiming gold is a bubble are rubbished by the goldbugs, most of whom I'm certain aren't that well educated given some of the spelling and punctuation, and given that the same data is available to the professors as it is to the goldbugs I'll put my money on the professors and economists from the 'mainstream media'.
Wait a minute Skol, you just reminded me about a paper predicting gold to crash in about April/May this year, (covered in this thread) based on a scientific chart treatment of the oscillations of the 10-year ramp. That was real science (maths), and what a load of bollocks it turned out to be.
Looks to me like the big traders are buying US$, waiting for it to rise, selling out of that and buying gold. They must be doing really well. They can hop in and out as often as they like.
Until the world finds some sustainable energy at a sensible price, we're in the crap. No annual increases in GDP to keep everything going.
Good move up for the Gold price 1657oz USD -1711oz AUD ....start of the move back on the bull trend...
Gold and silver resuming their inexorable way south - again.
Wait a minute Skol, you just reminded me about a paper predicting gold to crash in about April/May this year, (covered in this thread) based on a scientific chart treatment of the oscillations of the 10-year ramp. That was real science (maths), and what a load of bollocks it turned out to be.
I think if you go back and find the formula that there was a proviso of + or - several months, so the mathematical formula wasn't far off the mark.
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1012/1012.4118.pdf
May - June 2011 as the 'most probable time'. Not bad though.
The main difference between the goldbugs and everyone else is the conspiracy theories, some of which are so comic there should be a book written about them. The numbers are wrong, Bernanke is lying, the goldbugs are the target of the establishment, manipulation, the illuminati, it's hilarious.
The goldbug sheeple are so convinced they're right and everyone else is wrong they're gonna ride this all the way down.
elZorro
05-10-2011, 07:30 AM
I think if you go back and find the formula that there was a proviso of + or - several months, so the mathematical formula wasn't far off the mark.
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1012/1012.4118.pdf
May - June 2011 as the 'most probable time'. Not bad though.
The main difference between the goldbugs and everyone else is the conspiracy theories, some of which are so comic there should be a book written about them. The numbers are wrong, Bernanke is lying, the goldbugs are the target of the establishment, manipulation, the illuminati, it's hilarious.
The goldbug sheeple are so convinced they're right and everyone else is wrong they're gonna ride this all the way down.
I don't think so. That Sornette equation was May-June but the error was not specified, very unscientific after all that maths. And in any case large interventions meant all bets were off. I thought Strat has carefully shown that US Gold has dropped back 15% after a logarithmic increase, and has now reverted to a linear increase, the same path it's been on for 10 years.
Hold onto your hat Skol, because Bernanke is starting to talk about QE3. http://www.actionforex.com/analysis/daily-forex-fundamentals/bernanke-hints-at-qe3,-usd-stems-gains,-eases-vs-euro-20111004150326/. That will hold the dollar back again, which the FED probably wants, to help US exports and reduce the cost of the external debts. It will mean traders will tend to hop out of cash, and some will buy stocks, some will buy gold. But I'm no economist.
elZorro
06-10-2011, 09:53 PM
The HUI is sitting at a recent low. According to the share Guru at work, this is exactly the time to buy. Not when I normally do, which is at the peak. Mind you, the guru is into cash at the moment. What do you think, JB?
The financial forecasters don't think much of your chances EZ.
www.forecasts.org/gold.htm
In the USA the FBI says $1.6 billion worth of precious metals was stolen in 2010, up 51% from 2005. Metal detectors are a worry apparently, and only 4.2% was recovered.
The goldbugs don't trust banks so are getting their PM stolen instead.
In the USA the FBI says $1.6 billion worth of precious metals was stolen in 2010, up 51% from 2005. Metal detectors are a worry apparently, and only 4.2% was recovered.
The goldbugs don't trust banks so are getting their PM stolen instead.
The figure also includes all jewelry stolen too, would be interesting to find out what proportion of this $1.6 billion was actual bullion.
From today's Herald:
'Bubbles attract riff-raff. There are those who look to make money out of the latest investment fad. They can spot a quick dollar.
Currently it's gold. When property was the in thing, these people were offering to find property, manage it, teach or mentor you about property investing.'
More than a few goldmugs getting cleaned out by the looks of things.
And:
'If you're simply buying gold or precious metals bars that are delivered immediately, your risk isn't too great, the market may fall, but you can hold the gold until it regains its value.'
That should be around 2034 according to one TA guy, so as long as you're under about 50 you'll be OK, otherwise someone else is gonna get to spend it.
(If they can find it, maybe someone else found it first. LOL)
corran
09-10-2011, 03:09 AM
2034 according to one TA guy??
Oh well, it must be right then :scared:
And you think the 'Gold to $5000' posts are ridiculous?
2034 according to one TA guy??
Oh well, it must be right then :scared:
And you think the 'Gold to $5000' posts are ridiculous?
In wouldn't say it was far-fetched at all, it's got a lot more credibility than HOPING gold will go to $5000. Silver/gold, same thing.
www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/silver-silver-high-silver-closing-silver/4/7/2011/id/33830
If you read the comments underneath, it's all the same yadda, yadda, yadda you get from JBMurc, except so far the article's right.
Both articles make sense to me, but not to goldmugs I guess.
www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/gold-gold-bull-commodities-precious-metals/3/24/2011/id/33532
Again, comments underneath amount to the, 'it's different this time" philosophy. Let's see.
shasta
09-10-2011, 05:36 PM
In wouldn't say it was far-fetched at all, it's got a lot more credibility than HOPING gold will go to $5000. Silver/gold, same thing.
www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/silver-silver-high-silver-closing-silver/4/7/2011/id/33830
If you read the comments underneath, it's all the same yadda, yadda, yadda you get from JBMurc, except so far the article's right.
Both articles make sense to me, but not to goldmugs I guess.
www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/gold-gold-bull-commodities-precious-metals/3/24/2011/id/33532
Again, comments underneath amount to the, 'it's different this time" philosophy. Let's see.
What?
Silver & Gold the same thing?
Yes, both are precious metals, but Silver has far more industrial use, so even when the Gold "hype" is over, Silver will still be in demand.
Lizard
09-10-2011, 05:58 PM
I've been reading this thread for a while. I have nothing useful to add... except that I'm with Skol.
(Someone has to be!) :)
JBmurc
09-10-2011, 09:51 PM
What?
Silver & Gold the same thing?
Yes, both are precious metals, but Silver has far more industrial use, so even when the Gold "hype" is over, Silver will still be in demand.
yeah skol can't work out their different just there going to crash an burn because it's happen in recent past an that means it will happen again as nothings ever different the fact that all world currencies are now fiat for the first timein history means nothing as well as some of the biggest monetry leverage systems mankind has ever come up with will also mean nothing because back in the early seventies gold crashed LOL ..
Lizard yankiwi get on board worth a laugh
drillfix
10-10-2011, 02:08 AM
Hi folks,
As posted on the silver thread, I feel some p metals are in for an up move..
I feel gold will be priming up for test of the middle bollinger bands which is approx at $1,709 there about.
Although at times we cant rely upon indicators to say it will or wont, if we look at global indexes and the Williams%R is showing many index readying up for an eventual another down leg which should give the the MACD and W%R for both gold and silver a thrust upward both on the daily and weekly.
Thats all from the Technical Babble for now.
Cheers~!
Lego_Man
10-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Since there's been no major economic meltdown in my lifetime bar a few crashes, I don't expect one in the near future. History's on my side.
Fine logic!
All other stuff aside, your lifetime is hardly a representative sample when it comes to the history of economics.
Fine logic!
All other stuff aside, your lifetime is hardly a representative sample when it comes to the history of economics.
In my lifetime there's been no major depression, however they were a regular feature in recent history.
A few examples:
The panic of 1837,
The Long Depression 1873-1896,
The panic of 1907,
The panic of 1911,
the Depression of 1920-1921,
The Great Depression.
I can see you're one of the goldmugs that believe the ultimate meltdown is on its way, you've been reading too much 'non-mainstream media'. LOL
John Paulsons gold fund is now up .9% in the year, down 16% in September, and these are the 'experts'. Better off with money in the bank at 5%.
Something didnt sound right about the gold fund statement so I checked the 1 year gold chart--1 yr ago it was sitting on $1350 oz---Now its $1650---Dont know about J P gold fund,but the price of gold is up a hellava lot more than .6%
but what do us goldmugs know
Pumice
10-10-2011, 11:17 PM
inflation and FX adjusted?
Something didnt sound right about the gold fund statement so I checked the 1 year gold chart--1 yr ago it was sitting on $1350 oz---Now its $1650---Dont know about J P gold fund,but the price of gold is up a hellava lot more than .6%
It's because Mr. Paulson has been unwise enough to put the punters money into gold mining companies.
Gotcha--I thought you were talking about gold itself--Shes a pretty hard market for alot of companies these days
corran
12-10-2011, 06:41 AM
In my lifetime there's been no major depression, however they were a regular feature in recent history.
A few examples:
The panic of 1837,
The Long Depression 1873-1896,
The panic of 1907,
The panic of 1911,
the Depression of 1920-1921,
The Great Depression.
I can see you're one of the goldmugs that believe the ultimate meltdown is on its way, you've been reading too much 'non-mainstream media'. LOL
Even the 'main-stream' media over here are talking openly about a global financial meltdown Skol. But of course it's often hard with main stream media to filter out the scare mongering and also the rose-tinted classes pieces. That's why I prefer the non main-stream stuff :-)
There have been depressions and melt-downs before but there's a few things that set this one apart I reckon such as:
- the hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of complex and intertwined derivative products
- the overwhelming debt levels many developed countries have
- the currencies and economies of the most economically powerful countries/regions (e.g., US, UK, Europe, Japan) are all extremely vulnerable (negative growth, high unemployment, huge unfunded liabilities, aging population)
- currencies are backed by nothing
I dinnae see these things getting fixed anytime soon.
Zero percent interest rates and trillions of dollars of bail-out/QE money haven't done much except shift the crisis from a banking crisis to a sovereign crisis.
I think you will find that we haven't had a depression because Bernanke, the Fed and central bankers in general have done a damned fine job so far of stimulating their economies. Bernanke is an expert on the Great Depression and is keen to avoid the mistakes of the '30's. We don't have a gold standard either which contributed to the depression.
Those amateur, unqualified economists, the goldbugs, know far better though and have their own crank theories.
And all of this was caused by greedy people borrowing too much money and stupid bankers lending it to them.
Just goes to show that you should live within your means.
Bernanke,the Fed,and the central bankers have only postponed the mess that the have,for the most part caused---Hold on to your hats folks-the fan is running full speed and there is plenty of s--t around. this fiat economic model has a used by date and time is ticking.
Goldbugs love to quote Marc Faber. Here's a couple of quotes;
"Dollar will eventually go to zero". ------------- Dated 26/10/2009
"It's bad for asset prices but good for the US Dollar". --------------- 7 hours ago.
"Gold and silver are the best currencies". ---------------Dated 24/4/11
"Gold could fall to $1100".---------------Dated 26/9/11
I suppose it pays to have a bet both ways.
Check out us dollar Index--Looking a bit shakey ATM
corran
13-10-2011, 09:47 AM
Goldbugs love to quote Marc Faber. Here's a couple of quotes;
"Dollar will eventually go to zero". ------------- Dated 26/10/2009
"It's bad for asset prices but good for the US Dollar". --------------- 7 hours ago.
"Gold and silver are the best currencies". ---------------Dated 24/4/11
"Gold could fall to $1100".---------------Dated 26/9/11
I suppose it pays to have a bet both ways.
The quotes above make sense to me. Currently when there is a market crisis (such as with the Eurozone at the moment) money moves to a liquidity safe haven. For a long time that has been (and continue to be) the US dollar. Coupled with that the crisis has a lot of deflationary pressures. Again that tends to drive down asset prices including gold and silver.
That's the short term outlook. Over time the USD will continue it's inexorable decline. The US is insolvent.
elZorro
15-10-2011, 12:05 PM
Gold has been trading sideways, but importantly is not dropping much either. Some good signs with the HUI index moving up too, every company on the index reported a SP increase yesterday.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/gold-stocks-set-to-bounce-but-miners-underperform/story-e6frg91x-1226167088312
A bit early to tell, but mining equipment suppliers have seen their savage shareprice drops being arrested, and they're going up again.
Gold has been trading sideways, but importantly is not dropping much either. Some good signs with the HUI index moving up too, every company on the index reported a SP increase yesterday.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/gold-stocks-set-to-bounce-but-miners-underperform/story-e6frg91x-1226167088312
A bit early to tell, but mining equipment suppliers have seen their savage shareprice drops being arrested, and they're going up again.
The XGD went down. Opened at 7206, closed at 7106.
The goldbugs poster boy, Jim Rogers, said the other day gold will decline for "months".
elZorro
15-10-2011, 12:35 PM
The XGD went down. Opened at 7206, closed at 7106.
The goldbugs poster boy, Jim Rogers, said the other day gold will decline for "months".
Hi Skol, I mean that the trend over the last few days has been for the HUI to improve from a low. It's all a matter of market confidence, even I'm not so sure about buying more goldies right now. But they might be a safer bet than general stocks. The goldies I'm holding are still OK (above cost), expecting better, and maybe I'll get a multi-bagger.
Here's a gold artice from that guy you found and posted to the silver thread.
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/buying-gold-current-value-of-gold/9/7/2011/id/36759
A variation on the dow/gold ratio, interesting very long-term chart, including the period when the gold price was fixed. According to the charts, gold's value should be about $600/oz, so it's overvalued. Less attention is paid to when the change in direction might occur, or what the actual cost of extracting gold these days is. On average, the extraction cost would be over $600/oz, so to allow for company profit, replacement exploration and the setup costs, energy and labour costs would have to significantly drop.
Gold could still double from here, and it wouldn't look too out of place on the long-term chart. It's been more volatile since the gold standard was removed.
JBmurc
16-10-2011, 05:26 PM
Discovery channel-Fort knox-----no public adit since 1974
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXMSduH6YE&feature=share
elZorro
16-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Discovery channel-Fort knox-----no public adit since 1974
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXMSduH6YE&feature=share
I watched the three clips JB. Looks like there's a good chance the guards at Ft Knox are watching over artefacts, and that the gold room has been taken over by other items. The gold being used to fund small wars etc. The value of the Ft Knox gold has not been changed on the public record for years, even though the value of all other gold has been climbing for 10 years now. Even if it was there, who owns it? Why wouldn't it have been added to over the years anyway? The govt can easily resolve all this, simply do an audit like they did in 1974. I have to believe the USA landed on the moon, now we can see photos of the landing areas, complete with leftover parts. The Fort Knox gold? Hmm. They must still have it, right Skol?
Of course they do, the President's head would roll if they didn't. Can you imagine the consequenses for the most senior government and military officials if it the gold wasn't there?
What military official would assume command of Fort Knox if the gold wasn't there?
It would be the most scandalous, serious, outrageous event in American history.
Then the USD wouldn't be the reserve currency and that isn't going to happen.
JBmurc
16-10-2011, 08:03 PM
Of course they do, the President's head would roll if they didn't. Can you imagine the consequenses for the most senior government and military officials if it the gold wasn't there?
What military official would assume command of Fort Knox if the gold wasn't there?
It would be the most scandalous, serious, outrageous event in American history.
Then the USD wouldn't be the reserve currency and that isn't going to happen.
your'd think with a 15 trillion plus debt an growing 1trillion +p.a an a Gold price at record highs they'd sell a few ton ?? bernake think's it's a relic
sell it .....but maybe the truth is as much as they wish they still held some real money it well long gone..decades ago now it's all about guarding the truth.
elZorro
17-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Of course they do, the President's head would roll if they didn't. Can you imagine the consequenses for the most senior government and military officials if it the gold wasn't there?
What military official would assume command of Fort Knox if the gold wasn't there?
It would be the most scandalous, serious, outrageous event in American history.
Then the USD wouldn't be the reserve currency and that isn't going to happen.
OK Skol, if the gold stockpile is that important, why not give the entire world a burst of optimism for the USD by showing off the vault's contents to a select few, under careful guard? What harm could there be in that? Unless there is something to hide.
OK Skol, if the gold stockpile is that important, why not give the entire world a burst of optimism for the USD by showing off the vault's contents to a select few, under careful guard? What harm could there be in that? Unless there is something to hide.
Probably because they don't need too. There would be a very, very careful check on what goes in and what goes out in addition to an inspection at regular intervals, particularly I would imagine when a new military official assumes command of the facility.
No single person is entrusted with the combination to the depository main vault door, several depository staff must dial in combinations known only to them so I would assume that there would be a practice opening at regular intervals.
The USA would be the butt of jokes the world over, humiliated to the nth degree if all the gold wasn't there.
What about the other gold bullion reserves in the USA, are they audited publicly on a regular basis? Fort Knox is a goldbug favourite because of its mystique and endless conspiracy theories.
You can tour the Philadelphia mint where you can check on the bars yourself.
Even if someone did an audit, goldbug morons would say it was a jack-up, a cover-up to convince the world the gold was there when it wasn't, like the theorists who just can't accept that there was a moon landing.
It might be considered a secret, like Area 51, or what sort of aircraft fly from Edwards Air Force Base at night, they're also government and military facilities paid for by the taxpayer.
The Federal Reserve Bank of NY holds more gold than Fort Knox, why don't you start some conspiracy theories about that?
Lizard
17-10-2011, 08:13 AM
http://motls.blogspot.com/2011/06/ron-paul-is-fort-knox-gold-gone.html
Lizard
17-10-2011, 09:15 AM
The value of the Ft Knox gold has not been changed on the public record for years, even though the value of all other gold has been climbing for 10 years now.
I think you will find that is because the US Treasury accounts record it at book value of $42.22/oz and don't mark it to market.
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/?action=fun_facts13
Apparently, this price was set by edict of President Nixon in 1973 and hasn't changed since. Maybe the US should consider making a mark-to-market adjustment and improving their balance sheet by a few hundred billion $'s?
elZorro
17-10-2011, 12:46 PM
I think you will find that is because the US Treasury accounts record it at book value of $42.22/oz and don't mark it to market.
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/?action=fun_facts13
Apparently, this price was set by edict of President Nixon in 1973 and hasn't changed since. Maybe the US should consider making a mark-to-market adjustment and improving their balance sheet by a few hundred billion $'s?
Hi Lizard, thanks for the extra info. I'm thinking that a mark-to-market would bring up the obvious issue of having to prove the ownership and the existence of the gold. Or is that your thought also?
The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky
Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces.
The only gold removed has been very small quantities used to test the purity of gold during regularly scheduled audits. Except for these samples, no gold has been transferred to or from the Depository for many years.
The gold is held as an asset of the United States at book value of $42.22 per ounce.
The Depository opened in 1937; the first gold was moved to the depository in January that year.
Highest gold holdings this century: 649.6 million ounces (December 31, 1941).
Lizard
17-10-2011, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure whether mark-to-market would have to entail any extra auditing to prove existence. I doubt it changes anything, but not my area of expertise.
drillfix
17-10-2011, 01:41 PM
That is all pretty interesting stuff there Liz.
Although if no auditing of such markup by the US, would that not create a global Transparency issue with world economics and dealings should the US not come forth and interpret what they do is Mislead people LOL (even if it is written or tucked away).
Sounds like a bunch of tail coat, cigar smoking, mustache men trying to do the blind fold act and just waiting for the curtain to be drawn.
JBmurc
17-10-2011, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=Skol;359056]Of course they do, the President's head would roll if they didn't. Can you imagine the consequenses for the most senior government and military officials if it the gold wasn't there?
What military official would assume command of Fort Knox if the gold wasn't there?
It's good to see you believe the fort knox Gold to be so important an asset ,and to now understand Gold is real money if it wasn't it wouldn't matter if their was no gold would it..
[QUOTE=Skol;359056] It's good to see you believe the fort knox Gold to be so important an asset ,and to now understand Gold is real money if it wasn't it wouldn't matter if their was no gold would it..
What I'm getting at is not the gold which is not a huge amount compared with GDP but the matter of trust.
You didn't answer my question about the Federal Reserve Bank of NY which has more gold than Fort Knox.
JBmurc
17-10-2011, 05:38 PM
[QUOTE=JBmurc;359085]
What I'm getting at is not the gold which is not a huge amount compared with GDP but the matter of trust.
You didn't answer my question about the Federal Reserve Bank of NY which has more gold than Fort Knox.
Yes but the FED's gold I understand is mostly owned by other countries i.e Germany where the Fort Knox is where nearly all of the USA gold reserves are meant to be stored
elZorro
17-10-2011, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=Skol;359086]
Yes but the FED's gold I understand is mostly owned by other countries i.e Germany where the Fort Knox is where nearly all of the USA gold reserves are meant to be stored
Not sure if this is much help JB, but an idea about where the big gold holdings are, in theory...http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/who-owns-worlds-gold/2491
JB, you are correct about the NY Fed reserve bank.
33 Liberty StreetMain article: 33 Liberty Street
A public competition for design of the building was held and the architectural firm of York and Sawyer submitted the winning design. The bank moved to its current location in 1924. The Federal Reserve Bank of New York maintains a vault that lies 80 feet below street level and 50 feet below sea level, resting on Manhattan bedrock. By 1927, the vault contained ten percent of the world's official gold reserves. Currently, it is reputedly the largest gold repository in the world (though this cannot be confirmed as Swiss banks do not report their gold stocks) and holds approximately 7,000 metric tons of gold bullion ($415 billion as of October 2011), more than Fort Knox. The gold is owned by many foreign nations, central banks and international organizations such as the IMF. The Federal Reserve Bank does not own the gold but serves as guardian of the precious metal, which it stores at no charge to the owners, but charging a 1.75$ (in 2008) per bar to move the gold. Moving the bars requires special footwear for the staff, to protect their feet in the case that they drop a 28 pound bar on their feet. The vault is open to tourists.
Don't look now Skol, you might halt Gold going through $1700 again overnight:). Heck, I thought you said it was on the way down. Lots of USA bank quarterlies coming out soon.
elZorro
18-10-2011, 07:51 AM
Have a look at this long (mainly text) video from Martin Weiss, Weiss Research. Not a pretty story for the USA. A lot of compelling facts there. The link with this thread: Martin recommends some gold holdings as a buffer/savings plan insulated from inflation, even gold coins. http://finance.moneyandmarkets.com/reports/SMR/4597/vsp-smr2.php?s=ZACS&e=4424110
[QUOTE=JBmurc;359093]Don't look now Skol, you might halt Gold going through $1700 again overnight:). Heck, I thought you said it was on the way down. Lots of USA bank quarterlies coming out soon.
It is on the way down, about $24 overnight, now $1668. A failure to break through $1700 means bad news for gold according to Incredible Charts. Silver's also down and the USD's up.
JBmurc
18-10-2011, 08:14 PM
And many Goldies ann reports-- I see RMS (372mill Mrktcap) have made a nice 62mill Nett profit average Gold price sold in 1300's...
have been buying more Gold/silver producers or soon to be producers a no brainer when you see the growth of nett profits shouldn't be long before many can afford special payout divvies as their cash balances grow expontial higher like RMS (which paid out 7cps)
RMS - sooner you than me. Look at the chart, gold's going nowhere and the smart money knows it.
Gold down again.
Stockmarkets done nothing for 10 years.
Property shredded for 6 years.
Gold and silver up for 10 years.
Where do you think the best chances of making money are JB?
JBmurc
19-10-2011, 07:48 AM
RMS - sooner you than me. Look at the chart, gold's going nowhere and the smart money knows it.
Gold down again.
Stockmarkets done nothing for 10 years.
Property shredded for 6 years.
Gold and silver up for 10 years.
Where do you think the best chances of making money are JB?
Well making 100%+ growth like I target each Fin Year I'd recommend Buying undervalued Shares in Precious metal producers that have low costs per oz an good exploration grounds to increase life of production an soon to be producers, Also like out of favour Rare earth-U308 with large growing JORC resources...
Overall see better growth in Sharemarkets than property over the next decade IMHO
Bullion a much longer term investment 5yrs min with Silver my favourite over the next decade growth wise.
Looks we won't be running out of gold anytime soon.
www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10760057
Allah is not smiling on the gold companies. RMS -.025, OGC -.16 and NCM -.98.
In the meantime Dow up 180.
elZorro
19-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Looks we won't be running out of gold anytime soon.
www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10760057 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10760057)
Egypt has 6.7Moz of gold in 100 mining sites? Average of 67,000 oz per mine? That's not enough to get excited about Skol. Glass Earth has shares in a permit above Waihi that might contain 3-5Moz, and no-one is rushing to buy them out, even though it is the biggest NZ find in 20 years. To mine for gold, you need very large concentrated patches for larger firms to get keen.
Did you watch/read that video I posted the other day? Scary stuff. I'm sitting here in my fortress in the back of beyond (Hamilton), ready to ride it out.
Egypt has 6.7Moz of gold in 100 mining sites? Average of 67,000 oz per mine? That's not enough to get excited about Skol. Glass Earth has shares in a permit above Waihi that might contain 3-5Moz, and no-one is rushing to buy them out, even though it is the biggest NZ find in 20 years. To mine for gold, you need very large concentrated patches for larger firms to get keen.
Did you watch/read that video I posted the other day? Scary stuff. I'm sitting here in my fortress in the back of beyond (Hamilton), ready to ride it out.
How do you/they know what's under the ground? A while back a moron from Greenpeace by the name of Simon Boxer announced in the NZ Herald there was only 60 years of uranium left on the planet.
HTF would he know that?
Yeah I watched the doomsday scenario --- yawn. It's all been said before. Stupid people with too much debt. Gummints too.
I know people a couple of Ks away who bought property big before the crash. They've sold one, less than they paid for it, can't rent others now they're moving into their garage so they can rent their house.
It ain't gonna happen, but let me know how hunkering down out the back of Hamilton goes.
Personally I've got no debt because I saw it all coming, sold property and unloaded the debt, I've said here before I converted my super scheme to 50% cash 18 months before the GFC. I don't count myself as some kind of genius, you look at all the other sheeple, see what they're doing and do the opposite. I sat an IQ test in school in 1966 and was told my IQ was 109, so I'm not a member of Mensa.
In fact I was in Te Rapa Rd the other day at Porters looking at buying a new digger while times are bad because it won't last forever.
elZorro
19-10-2011, 07:59 PM
Fair enough Skol, I've never bought property I couldn't use myself, so never been worried there. It's not as rosy as it looks. I like buying/owning stuff with an edge, not too many others will have it. Like a digger maybe. I can't believe how many they have over at Porters, but at least some get leased out. It's like a huge expensive car yard over there.
Are you digging some gold up of your own maybe? Or is it a duck pond you're after? BTW I think your IQ must be OK :).
John Paulson's gold fund has taken a major hit and with his punters probably less than impressed with his performance they have until the end of the month to redeem their investments. Paulson may have to sell billions of dollars in assets including gold, so a major sell-off is on the cards.
Other hedge funds have been combing through Paulson's assets trying to anticipate what he might need to sell if he returns cash to investors.
Apparently Paulson's Gold fund is the biggest shareholder in the SPDR Gold Fund, assets $65,202,519,502 and 12 cents.
That's about 1/4 of the value of what's in Fort Knox (if it's there LOL) so if Paulson has to start selling it won't be pretty. Paulson's stake in the SPDR Gold Fund is $4.5 billion about 15% of its value.
elZorro
26-10-2011, 06:57 AM
Gold has made it back to $1700/oz in the last four hours. Got there fairly fast, along with silver increasing. No change to the US$ much, so this could be a change in sentiment to more bullish behaviour.
http://singstock.com/gold/gold-stocks-upgraded-gold-surges-to-1700/
Economist Noriel Roubini says China is in for a hard landing. If that's the case all those millions of chinese will be selling their gold, because food's a lot more important.
elZorro
26-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Economist Noriel Roubini says China is in for a hard landing. If that's the case all those millions of chinese will be selling their gold, because food's a lot more important.
Not this week Skol, I think they'll be congratulating themselves on being smarter than many investors worldwide, by staying away from standard stocks and bonds. The flight to safety.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/business/2011-10/26/c_122197854.htm
A good day if you have exposure in the gold/silver sector. This recent web post implies that on a day when US$ basket and US$gold goes up, it's a fear trade. All eyes are on the EU meeting(s), to see if anything is resolved.
http://www.fxempire.com/technical/technical-analysis-reports/gold-technical-analysis-october-26-2011/
Gold has made it back to $1700/oz in the last four hours. Got there fairly fast, along with silver increasing. No change to the US$ much, so this could be a change in sentiment to more bullish behaviour.
Are you sure about that, taking a big dive ATM.
elZorro
27-10-2011, 08:57 PM
Are you sure about that, taking a big dive ATM.
Hi Skol, the USD has been clobbered for most of a month, see below. Adam Hewison is bearish on the European situation (from yesterday).
What is gold telling us?
Do you think there is going to be a resolution to the crisis that continues to fester and grow in Europe?
I think everyone is pondering if the European problem is ever going to be fixed. I for one, don’t believe it is going to be fixed. Now we hear that Italy is going to up the retirement age from 65 to 67, but it won’t be going into effect until 2026. Who are they kidding?
If you think Greece was bad, Italy is going to be another big problem waiting to happen. Then we have Spain, Ireland and who knows who else is going to bite the dust…
These are interesting times, and they do lend themselves really well to making money. If you are watching the markets and are nimble in your choice of markets to trade, both from the long and short side, you will do very well.
Adam Hewison, whoever he is, said in Reuters, 13/10/2011, that "gold has topped out for the year".
Another snakeoil salesman covering his tracks just in case.
elZorro
27-10-2011, 09:26 PM
Adam Hewison, whoever he is, said in Reuters, 13/10/2011, that "gold has topped out for the year".
Another snakeoil salesman covering his tracks just in case.
I read the posts attached to that INO.com USD index. They generally make sense, you have to be a member to get more details. Yes, Adam has been a bit down on gold, saying a couple of weeks ago that only those with long trade horizons should stay long on gold. But who does know the whole story? Now the trade triangles say medium and long-term punts on an increasing gold price are suitable. There is a crunch line for gold at 1725, widely predicted and seems to be the case today. If it breaks past there, it could go a bit higher to 1750, most say.
If silver would just keep going up, I might get back to the buy price on my bar of silver. Should have bought a smaller amount of gold. But there you go, I'm happier with gold miners or explorers.
By 7am in NZ 28th Oct, US$gold at near 1750 - I'm surprised, since the EU summit produced a way forward and general stocks rallied. But on 25th October, when gold started its climb, this article came out: http://www.goldalert.com/2011/10/fed-not-“out-of-bullets”-qe3-possible-says-dudley/
QE3 for USA looking more likely, and this would be inflationary.
Dow up 350. If this keeps going the serious punters will dump their gold to get back into stocks.
elZorro
28-10-2011, 07:25 AM
Dow up 350. If this keeps going the serious punters will dump their gold to get back into stocks.
Maybe, but there are new quarterlies coming out from gold miners that show increased net profits, and as the HUI needs a kick up the jacksie, perhaps a lot of the attention will be on gold stocks. I live in hope..
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/HUI-Index-gold-mining-leverage-effect/10/27/2011/id/37615
Was the rally last night simply shorts covering, with the EU news looking a bit more promising? http://club.ino.com/trading/2011/10/is-this-rally-for-real-2/
More on gold :http://www.annuitynewsjournal.com/gold-may-still-continue-to-climb-on-fear-and-market-volatility/
Gold plunges about $35 on yen intervention. XGD down 1.7%.
JBmurc
31-10-2011, 08:00 PM
Gold plunges about $35 on yen intervention. XGD down 1.7%.
Yes in USD in AUD only down $4 ......yet the market pushed down many a profitable Gold producer,,many gold producers are being priced 10's mill below the cost of their gold producing plants no value to resources or exploration costs,admin etc ... crazy in no way could any anti-gold poster state that gold shares are in a bubble or going to go lower in value than they are now at the current price of gold....
Got a RESOURCE STOCKS june 04 mag in front of me, article on why many more gold companies will be consolidated to the bigger Goldies increasing their reserves ....has a list from 94-04 of who was acquisited at at what price per oz , an what the price of gold was at the time...etc
the lowest during that time "Wheaton River" buy out of "Amapuri" some 2.3moz gold brought for $271per oz when gold was priced at $380oz
the averge over the 10yrs of the 100 odd take-overs cost 94% (cost as % of the gold spot price)
today you have many explorers worth only $30oz-$60oz per oz in reserves, an producers valued not that much better
elZorro
01-11-2011, 10:22 PM
Skol, you must be happy today, the USD on the way back up and gold is down. I've just watched "Too big To Fail" on the Soho channel, Lehmanns' fall was curiously similar to the bankruptcy story of MF Global on Monday this week. Another hotshot gambler convinced that they'd make a lot of money, they just had to hang out and wait. This is the market's reaction for now. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-mfglobal-idUSTRE79R4YY20111031
US Gold is back on strong trading triangles in the short, medium and long term.
Pumice
02-11-2011, 01:51 AM
Gees Gold, along with everything else is getting nailed.
Gold's ditched and the punters head for the USD. Goldbugs are squirming because the USD is headed for oblivion apparently, they can't bear the thought of owning them, whaddya reckon JB? It goes against the grain, right? I thought the safe haven was supposed to be gold.
Gold, no thanks, my stocks have done well recently, best October in years according to the news.
MF Global-more chickens coming home to roost, and money's gone missing - fancy that.
In the Sunday Herald there was a 2 page article about how NZers are doing this year, the author went for a drive through a few towns asking people. One guy said he had $4,500,000 in debt. He taken out 100% mortgages and in his own words, "bought half of NZ" and now can't sell the houses.
elZorro
02-11-2011, 06:59 AM
Gold's ditched and the punters head for the USD. Goldbugs are squirming because the USD is headed for oblivion apparently, they can't bear the thought of owning them, whaddya reckon JB? It goes against the grain, right? I thought the safe haven was supposed to be gold.
Gold, no thanks, my stocks have done well recently, best October in years according to the news.
MF Global-more chickens coming home to roost, and money's gone missing - fancy that.
In the Sunday Herald there was a 2 page article about how NZers are doing this year, the author went for a drive through a few towns asking people. One guy said he had $4,500,000 in debt. He taken out 100% mortgages and in his own words, "bought half of NZ" and now can't sell the houses.
Er, Skol, USD dropping back fast just now, gold back to $1720, and Greece may have decided to default on its debts already. I might keep my gold investments I think.
http://club.ino.com/trading/2011/11/can-the-greek-government-survive-we-doubt-it/
At least with money in the bank you at least get some return, albeit not much, with gold you get a big fat zero % return.
I wonder how long it'll be before gold speculators (especially those that say you have to own physical so the banksters can't steal it) lose their patience and start selling. You keep hearing about the USD crashing and gold going to Pluto but it's not happening.
I have to admire the goldbugs stamina though, they'd be the most optimistic bunch on the planet, however I have noticed some anxiety setting in amongst the 'goldies' goldbugs.
corran
02-11-2011, 09:31 AM
At least with money in the bank you at least get some return, albeit not much, with gold you get a big fat zero % return.
What time frame are you looking at there Skol?
I bought most of my physical gold between 2006-2008, I'm pretty happy with the return (guess they're up about 100% on my average cost price).
I bought a fair few OGC shares in Jan 2009 and sold a chunk after they'd gone up 600% or so. I was happy with that.
I've had a bit of cash sitting in the bank the last few years but haven't seen much growth there.
What time frame are you looking at there Skol?
I bought most of my physical gold between 2006-2008, I'm pretty happy with the return (guess they're up about 100% on my average cost price).
I bought a fair few OGC shares in Jan 2009 and sold a chunk after they'd gone up 600% or so. I was happy with that.
I've had a bit of cash sitting in the bank the last few years but haven't seen much growth there.
Yes, you expect a decent return if you take risk, but gold's notoriously volatile and if there's a 1980 redux your return is likely to be very bleak indeed. Remember gold is at multi-year highs, the higher it goes the more chance of an implosion.
The US dollar looks pretty volatile to me.Id be pretty nervous sitting on a large stack of that stuff.
JBmurc
02-11-2011, 12:09 PM
AUD Gold doing well of late with the stronger USD $1667 some huge profits being made by the ASX producers
The US dollar looks pretty volatile to me.Id be pretty nervous sitting on a large stack of that stuff.
Skid The USD index is in a now established uptrend....Uptrends shouldn't make you nervous...rather average up.
Edit:...as JB says the stronger USD is holding the value of Gold up using other currencies
I am sitting on 20% shares 80% cash one third of my cash is in USD. To date I have not gained or lost anything when converted the USD back to NZ$ :mellow:....
Now my 20% shares,,,thats a worry... all in red ink:(and in the process of being culled yet again
JBmurc
02-11-2011, 12:15 PM
My Dear Extended Family:
Gold is headed into the $2000s. The mess in Europe is incurable and can only be damage controlled by QE.
MF Global got busted because credit default swaps did not work. MF Global had their Greek and Euro bond position covered by credit default swaps that they thought would protect them. SURPRISE!
They did not work because the Greek situation of a 50% haircut was given another name than "default" by a select group of Banksters and related parties.
97% of all credit default swaps written are carried by the major US banks. That means 97% of all the credit default swaps are the US usual Bankster suspects that swore to be more conservative in their ways.
If the Greek referendum is determined to represent a Greek default, major US banks will return to public insolvency and be bailed out yet another time because of the fraudulent nature OTC derivatives.
You think that game was rigged? China is coming to the rescue of no one. China specializes in picking up the pieces from troubled areas, not being troubled by troubled areas.
After Europe comes the US as media has been successful in keeping the focus of the problems off the US dollar. The only problem with gold shares is the hedge fund wild men and women that will in the end fail to stop the super bull market that is sure to come.
What is good for gold (QE) is also good for general equities so be careful on those that see doom everywhere.
Playing any one currency today is hard. Better hold a spread and seek to maintain buying power only. Competitive forced devaluation is the tool of strong currencies making it hard for exports in that currency. This is another example of making the Western world economic problems worse by curing the strong currency using liquidity to weaken it.
What today's economic managers don't know is Titanic in nature. There is no practical solution to the economic problems of today making gold in all forms desirable long term.
Regards,
Jim
Jim Sinclair. LOL, what a charlatan.
Here's his predictions from over 2 years ago;
1.Commercial, Retail and Industrial Properties looking at major default rates soon.
2.Basic govt. services will break down. Federal, State and Local govt revenues implode.
3.Commodities like food will be in short supply.
4.The USD will lose most of its value and reserve currency status and that age-old pearler that never happens, the dreaded hyperinflation.
5. The world will decouple from the US consumer as the USD crashes. 300 million consumers will have to relearn how to make things.
Have any of these things happened, of course not.
What a clown!
drillfix
03-11-2011, 04:22 AM
Gold is headed into the $2000s. The mess in Europe is incurable and can only be damage controlled by QE.
Well,
As I type this post Gold is sitting at $1,740, so for Jim to be right, gold must first breakout past the intermediate resistance level on the daily chart of say $1,750
On the weekly chart it appears that it wants to retest the $1,695 level again to potentially carry onward.
Both the daily and weekly RSI levels remain strong just above 50 midpoint, and the daily EMA's could all become lined up for gold to continue its uptrend, however this already is shown in the medium term to be already in the uptrend with the EMA formation being aligned nicely.
Watch for the breakout above the $1750 as this generate quite a bit more action for Gold Technically, as well as fundamentally whilst the EU story either buys time or falls to pieces ready to move on to the Italian story waiting in the Cue.
elZorro
03-11-2011, 07:28 AM
Well,
As I type this post Gold is sitting at $1,740, so for Jim to be right, gold must first breakout past the intermediate resistance level on the daily chart of say $1,750
On the weekly chart it appears that it wants to retest the $1,695 level again to potentially carry onward.
Both the daily and weekly RSI levels remain strong just above 50 midpoint, and the daily EMA's could all become lined up for gold to continue its uptrend, however this already is shown in the medium term to be already in the uptrend with the EMA formation being aligned nicely.
Watch for the breakout above the $1750 as this generate quite a bit more action for Gold Technically, as well as fundamentally whilst the EU story either buys time or falls to pieces ready to move on to the Italian story waiting in the Cue.
Thanks for that Drillfix, it lines up with many of the gold-leaning chart sites in their recent interpretation too. Even the latest deal for Greece, if it was actioned, would only solve part of their problem. They'd have to do another deal later. Maybe they'll borrow some money, write off some, and print some. Even then, many Greek workers will lose their jobs and/or benefits.
You have to ask, why are so many countries in nearly the same predicament? This inability to repay debt, in business terms, means an unprofitable operation. One of the biggest drains on world economies is the increasing cost of energy, and I think that is behind it all. I remember people moaning about petrol at NZ$1 a gallon. Well, it's now over $9, 30c a mile travelled (20c per km). Power/gas into homes comes at a considerable cost too. If energy costs are the problem, it's not going to be solved fast, the world is a big economy and we use a lot of energy just running it, let alone trying to grow it each year, so everything stays on an even keel.
I'd like to see a very concerted and urgent effort made into cheaper energy sources that are carbon neutral, and that is where funding needs to go. It would be far cheaper for taxpayers medium term than bailing out finance companies, banks, and entire countries. Meanwhile gold and gold stocks look to be a good bet for conserving capital. Gold is linked to the oil price.
The inflation adjusted (nominal) price of oil has never been higher than in the last few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oil_Prices_1861_2007.svg
The point I was making in my earlier post was that many people think of their hard earned dollars as a constant entity and gold as an ever fluctuating and volatile commodity.
I was simply turning the tables.Most of the time imo you are backing one or the other.If your rubbishing Gold,then you are putting your faith in US dollars and vice versa. Its a matter of who you are betting on.
The point I was making in my earlier post was that many people think of their hard earned dollars as a constant entity and gold as an ever fluctuating and volatile commodity.
I was simply turning the tables.Most of the time imo you are backing one or the other.If your rubbishing Gold,then you are putting your faith in US dollars and vice versa. Its a matter of who you are betting on.
The USD doesn't have a habit of crashing a la 1980. Gold is a lot more volatile, more people need USD then people need gold. There's lots of things you can do with USD, what do you do with gold, put it in the safe and take out some insurance in case it gets stolen?
corran
03-11-2011, 10:02 AM
The USD doesn't have a habit of crashing a la 1980. Gold is a lot more volatile, more people need USD then people need gold. There's lots of things you can do with USD, what do you do with gold, put it in the safe and take out some insurance in case it gets stolen?
Gold has, for thousands of years, proven to be a store of value.
The same can't be said for the USD which has lost 95% of it's purchasing power since the 1930's and I don't see it reversing that (long term) trend.
Gold has, for thousands of years, proven to be a store of value.
The same can't be said for the USD which has lost 95% of it's purchasing power since the 1930's and I don't see it reversing that (long term) trend.
The same worn out old story. I wonder if the punters that gambled on gold in 1979 would agree with you as they went bust and lost everything they had? The USD is on its way back, but I'm always open to ideas, so prove to me the USD has lost 95% of its value (against what) since the '30's and then we'll have a look at other currencies and then gold (which is not a currency).
.... so prove to me the USD has lost 95% of its value (against what) since the '30's and then we'll have a look at other currencies and then gold (which is not a currency).
Try here Skol http://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/AUPPBasket.php
I don't see it reversing that (long term) trend.
Well something has to happen because if you're right then it's only got 5% to go and then the USD has lost 100% of its value and is worth nothing, which is obviously incorrect.
The USD is worth nothing like it was in 1774, so it has depreciated, but it's also depreciated against property and the DJIA. The USD has generally kept its value against other currencies.
Gold keeps pace with inflation, if you're expecting any more than that you're going to be sadly disappointed in the long run.
www.pragcap.com/do-gold-prices-correlate-with-u-s-inflation
Notice the part about gold being in an irrational bubble.
elZorro
03-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Quite a good article Skol. Looks like China's wages are increasing steadily in line with the gold price, and they are also big buyers of gold. But some of us on the thread had commented about that. I just hadn't seen a chart showing the very strong link of the gold price to per capita annual income in China and India. It is at about USD$2750 at the moment. The point is that this link is even more conclusive than the link of gold to oil or energy. So we should keep an eye on how things are going in China. Let's hope they keep growing their economy.
JBmurc
03-11-2011, 02:45 PM
The USD is worth nothing like it was in 1774...to right it isn't.......Well the current USD has only been around for 38yrs ...
In 1971, gold was repriced to $38 per ounce, then again to $42 per ounce in 1973. As the dollar devalued, it motivated people to sell their greenbacks for gold. Finally, in late 1973, the U.S. government decoupled the value of the dollar from gold altogether. The price of gold quickly shot up to $120 per ounce in the free market.
Once the gold standard was dropped, countries began printing more of their own currency. Inflation usually resulted, but for the most part abandoning the gold standard created more economic growth.
However, gold has never lost its appeal as a currency of real value. Whenever recessions or inflation looms, investors return to gold. By 2011, the price of gold was over $1,600 an ounce.
However, gold has never lost its appeal as a currency of real value.
Gold is not a currency, it may have been hundreds of years ago but not now. If you'd like confirmation, next time your Mrs. goes to Woolworths give her a krugerrand to pay for the groceries.
drillfix
03-11-2011, 04:05 PM
f you'd like confirmation, next time your Mrs. goes to Woolworths give her a krugerrand to pay for the groceries.
LOL Skol, classic :p
JBmurc
03-11-2011, 04:58 PM
Gold is not a currency, it may have been hundreds of years ago but not now. If you'd like confirmation, next time your Mrs. goes to Woolworths give her a krugerrand to pay for the groceries.
No different that trying to pay in any other currency try paying for your groceries in yen or USD not going be any good either is it...but like the gold coin you can take it to a local mint an exchange it for an currency of your choice ..as you can with USD yen to your currency exchange .
.... anyone that thinks the current fiat monetry system isn't in dire trouble needs to W>T>F up
No different that trying to pay in any other currency try paying for your groceries in yen or USD not going be any good either is it...but like the gold coin you can take it to a local mint an exchange it for an currency of your choice ..as you can with USD yen to your currency exchange .
.... anyone that thinks the current fiat monetry system isn't in dire trouble needs to W>T>F up
I can't go to the local bank or currency exchange and get local currency for gold.
POSSUM THE CAT
03-11-2011, 07:07 PM
Skoll I have yet to find a mall in Auckland that you can not change any gold into NZ Dollars
elZorro
03-11-2011, 07:30 PM
Right about now I'd be feeling really smart if I'd bought some gold bars when they were $300/oz. That chart from Skol's article (Skol as in the beer, right?) is out of date. Has the Chinese per capita income kept up with the gold price? And we should also see what the per capita income is for some of the Western World. Higher but dropping perhaps. The great averaging out that must happen eventually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GDP_PPP_per_capita_2009_IMF.png
China doing better than India, that would be the caste system holding them back. NZ doing a lot better than China in terms of income. NZ not that far behind the top countries, Aussie doing well on the list.
More links in China's GDP and Leading Indicator with Europe and Australia. (http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2011/11/chinas-leading-indicators-head-south/?utm_source=Media+List&utm_campaign=d585353aa6-RSS_DAILY_MAILCHIMP_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email)
Skoll I have yet to find a mall in Auckland that you can not change any gold into NZ Dollars
Where, what shop?
drillfix
04-11-2011, 03:02 AM
Well,
As I type this post Gold is sitting at $1,740, so for Jim to be right, gold must first breakout past the intermediate resistance level on the daily chart of say $1,750
On the weekly chart it appears that it wants to retest the $1,695 level again to potentially carry onward.
Both the daily and weekly RSI levels remain strong just above 50 midpoint, and the daily EMA's could all become lined up for gold to continue its uptrend, however this already is shown in the medium term to be already in the uptrend with the EMA formation being aligned nicely.
Watch for the breakout above the $1750 as this generate quite a bit more action for Gold Technically, as well as fundamentally whilst the EU story either buys time or falls to pieces ready to move on to the Italian story waiting in the Cue.
Well folks,
There we have it, gold now broken above $1750 up to $1760 at one point, but swinging like a yoyo now.
My take on this technically is that $1748 - 1750 should act like a new anchor zone for a new support even.
Either that or it will trade around this level which is at the top of the previous trading range which was say between 1615 and the above mentioned 1748.
Sometimes it may take a day or two, up to a week before a commitment is made or that until both the daily and weekly charts come into a sync formation. (both charts indicators moving in the same direction at the same time).
Hopefully gold will take a slow and steady run this time, with no panic buying or selling, and more of a solidified committed upward move, because the faster it seems to go up the the fall in reverse can also be large which to me scares many long term diversified investors away to some degree.
I would post a chart but currently dont have a live gold chart except from the FIREFOX addon called LIVE GOLD which also has an array of Metals being, silver, copper, platinum, nickel, and lots more. I also asked the author or writer of the software if he would include live CL Crude Futures prices which he says that he will consider for future releases. Please visit the Addon site for Firefox and add that to the bottom of your browser as it is an invaluable tool.
Back to prices, as I type this post, gold now sits at $1,755 yet currently FTSE, DAX and now US are also Green and the Aus dollar is at $1.03x AUD to US, so weird as in like some sort of both fundamental and technical Divergence with such current results.
Cheers~!
corran
04-11-2011, 04:52 AM
Well something has to happen because if you're right then it's only got 5% to go and then the USD has lost 100% of its value and is worth nothing, which is obviously incorrect.
Obviously it needs to lose 100% of it's current value to be worth nothing. It can and (IMO will) lose another 95% of it's purchasing power and still be worth something, albeit stuff all.
SHORT GOLD! From the Financial Post
By Mike Tarsala
Platinum is about 15 times more rare than gold and usually trades at a premium to the yellow metal. But the greater the worry about the economy, the higher gold trades in relation to platinum.
“The relative performance of these metals is telling us that all is still not well,” said John Corcoran, client portfolio manager at Oppenheimer funds, which collectively manages about $23 billion in alternative investments.
Gold is a defensive asset and is considered more precious in times of economic stress. Platinum, meanwhile, is more closely tied with the economy because of its use in catalytic converters on cars and in industrial equipment. That is why the platinum-gold spread tends to reflect the level of economic fear in the U.S.
Gold has rarely been more expensive than platinum in the past three decades, and only sustained a higher price for more than two months once, in the early 1980s. The most recent period when gold was pricier was October 2008, near the height of the financial crisis.
It happened again in September, as fears about the European debt crisis boiled over and platinum began to swoon.
Platinum prices fell as much as $162 below gold’s price in early October. Even after last week’s stocks rally, gold still trades for $80 more an ounce than platinum, an extreme that up until recently had not been seen since 1982.
Here’s how to play this historically wide gold-platinum spread:
BUY PLATINUM AND SHORT GOLD
Except for a nine-month period that began in 1981, platinum has bounced back from its lagging price against gold fairly quickly. Those who bought platinum and simultaneously bought gold reaped the benefits.
That could happen again, says Mark Williams, a professor of finance and economics at Boston University.
“There is a significant price spread aberration,” Williams said. “To profit, you go long platinum, and short gold. We do not have fear of inflation right now. GDP numbers are positive. The markets, and the U.S. dollar, are rising. Economic concerns seem to be waning.”
Another way to structure the trade is with ETFs, he says.
The SPDR Gold Shares ETF charges 0.4 percent a year to track the price of gold bullion. It’s come close, up 14.5 percent this year. And the Physical Platinum Shares ETF seeks to track the spot price of platinum, minus a 0.6 percent annual fee. It is down 13 percent year-to-date.
BUY STOCKS ON IMPROVED ECONOMICS
A narrowing of the gold-platinum spread could be good for equities.
The S&P 500 rose more than 30 percent in the 12 months after the weekly platinum-gold spread reached an extreme of nearly $130 in September 1982. The market went on to rise more than 150 percent, until the Black Monday crash in 1987.
Credit Suisse Strategist Andrew Garthwaite on Tuesday raised his 2012 target on the S&P 500 to 1340 from 1260, and says the chance of a U.S. recession has fallen to 25 percent from 35 percent.
The SPDR S&P 500 ETF tracks the benchmark index and is an easy play. But cyclical sectors and stocks that benefit most from a stronger economy, including the automakers and parts companies, are another option. They are the lowest-priced market sector based on their 12-month forward price-to-earnings ratio of 7.8 times earnings. The S&P 500 has price-to-earnings ratio of 11.5 times earnings.
One fund where automakers make up more than 15 percent of the holdings is the First Trust IPOX-100 Index fund (FPX), down 8 percent this year, but rated a top Lipper fund for consistent returns.
BUY ONLY PLATINUM
Even some analysts who are less certain about where gold prices are headed think platinum will snap back.
Paul Mendelsohn, chief investment strategist at Windham Financial Services in Charlotte, Vermont, is currently long platinum, and thinks it is a relative value.
Before the recent rally, platinum bottomed out in October 2008, five months ahead of the stock market, and rose more than 50 percent by April 2009.
Buying a futures contract can be done through an online futures account, or a full-service broker. The Platinum ETF also is a proxy. It is down year-to-date, but has been on the rise since Oct. 9.
A managed futures account run by a registered Commodity Trading Advisor may include gold-platinum and other spread trades as part of an overall plan. The accounts typically charge a 2 percent management fee, and keep 20 percent of the portfolio’s returns.
“Platinum is extremely undervalued versus gold,” Mendelsohn says. “Traders think we are still going into an economic slowdown and the industrial demand will be less. But most economic data says we are not going into recession.”
Well folks,
......I would post a chart but currently dont have a live gold chart....
Drilly try http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui The DOW is the default ($indu) so type in $gold in the symbol box located on the top left hand side.
but...If you want silver the symbol is $silver ...etc. ...:)easypeasy
Stockcharts.com updates during the day
JBmurc
04-11-2011, 09:18 AM
Yeah great move by Gold overnight moving back onwards with the long bull trend 1763 currently ,wouldn't put a 2k cross out of the Question before the years out
Yeah great move by Gold overnight moving back onwards with the long bull trend 1763 currently ,wouldn't put a 2k cross out of the Question before the years out
Today from Incredible Charts.
"AMEX goldbugs index is headed for a test of the upper border of its right-angled broadening wedge formation.
The pattern is bearish and breakout below 500 would warn of a primary reversal for spot gold."
POSSUM THE CAT
04-11-2011, 09:44 AM
Skol go into any West Auckland Mall and they will chase you to buy your Gold There are Kiosks just about everywhere. Otherwise try the Casino Gold House (by the Casino I believe) They are advertising on TV & Radio
Skol go into any West Auckland Mall and they will chase you to buy your Gold There are Kiosks just about everywhere. Otherwise try the Casino Gold House (by the Casino I believe) They are advertising on TV & Radio
hahahahaa, what a joke! I knew that would be the answer. These aren't legitimate currency or gold traders, they're scamsters trying to rip off unsuspecting geriatrics and other naive individuals. There's been endless warnings about these rogues in newspapers, internet and TV.
Gold set to crash to $1000/oz in 3 years on potential surplus.
NEW YORK (Commodity Online):Gold may be headed downward to $1000 an ounce within three years as a potential surplus in the commodity will see lower prices as investor demand saps off, according to Christoph Eibl, founding partner of Tiberius Asset Management said in an interview to Reuters.
COMEX gold is trading around $1750 after prices had peaked to $1920 and subsequently crashed to $1530 in a global sell-off triggered by risk aversion.The investor sentiment has been mixed with some believing that gold will propel to $10,000/oz on the global recession while others maintaining that gold prices are too high.
Positive indications from the US, especially a strong Q3 GDP and company earnings have been negative for gold.
Eibl says that gold and Silver will crash eventually and actually prefers Platinum because it is now for the first time in years, cheaper then gold.
'A surplus in Gold will Lead to price falls three years from now and investors should focus on the supply side of commodities like Copper and oil' Reuters sums up Christoph's advice in an interview.
Eibl advises investors to focus more on the supply issue of a commodity than blindly looking into the demand picture. He argues that gold is stored via ETF's and in vaults. And ultimately when the gold bubble bursts, prices will come down.
This is unlike other commodities like copper and oil, where the supply in very tight. Copper is in fact in deficit for 2011 and will be so in 2012. For oil, the scenario is unlike 2008, where inventories were higher. Today oil inventories have come down and this provides a strong case for bullishness.
drillfix
04-11-2011, 12:04 PM
Drilly try http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui The DOW is the default ($indu) so type in $gold in the symbol box located on the top left hand side.
but...If you want silver the symbol is $silver ...etc. ...:)easypeasy
Stockcharts.com updates during the day
Thanks Hoop,
I use a few charting platforms that give you only EOD gold and silver and forgot all about Stockcharts as its been a while and all the codes in other platforms seem very different.
Cheers again~!
still holding NAV sp not moving
How are the NAV's going?
Gold set to crash to $1000/oz in 3 years on potential surplus.
NEW YORK (Commodity Online):Gold may be headed downward to $1000 an ounce within three years as a potential surplus in the commodity will see lower prices as investor demand saps off, according to Christoph Eibl, founding partner of Tiberius Asset Management said in an interview to Reuters.
COMEX gold is trading around $1750 after prices had peaked to $1920 and subsequently crashed to $1530 in a global sell-off triggered by risk aversion.The investor sentiment has been mixed with some believing that gold will propel to $10,000/oz on the global recession while others maintaining that gold prices are too high.
'A surplus in Gold will Lead to price falls three years from now and investors should focus on the supply side of commodities like Copper and oil' Reuters sums up Christoph's advice in an interview.
Eibl advises investors to focus more on the supply issue of a commodity than blindly looking into the demand picture. He argues that gold is stored via ETF's and in vaults. And ultimately when the gold bubble bursts, prices will come down.
This is unlike other commodities like copper and oil, where the supply in very tight. Copper is in fact in deficit for 2011 and will be so in 2012. For oil, the scenario is unlike 2008, where inventories were higher. Today oil inventories have come down and this provides a strong case for bullishness.
So if there is going to be a surplus then this will be good for getting back on a gold backed monetary system. The usual comments are always "there isnt enough gold for a gold standard nowadays"
The $10k/oz figure is often based on a calculation shown by Mike Maloney, being the price of gold needed to cover all the money that has been printed and credit that is available. He shows how throughout history this "accounting for" has happened time and time again. (Although it may even be closer to $20k now)
JBmurc
04-11-2011, 10:30 PM
How are the NAV's going?
You know I sold them at 18.5c long ago ...My current precious metal producers/explorers holdings are AYN,CCU,CVR,PXGOA bag them if you like....
So if there is going to be a surplus then this will be good for getting back on a gold backed monetary system. The usual comments are always "there isnt enough gold for a gold standard nowadays"
The $10k/oz figure is often based on a calculation shown by Mike Maloney, being the price of gold needed to cover all the money that has been printed and credit that is available. He shows how throughout history this "accounting for" has happened time and time again. (Although it may even be closer to $20k now)
The gold standard is a goldbug pipe dream, it'll never, ever happen.
There's as much chance they'll resurrect the gold standard as there's is there's no gold in Fort Knox.
Pumice
05-11-2011, 01:46 PM
"Eibl says that gold and Silver will crash eventually and actually prefers Platinum because it is now for the first time in years, cheaper then gold."
I thought I saw the price of platnum being less than gold, but didnt think it was right at the time given that Gold is much more abundent than Platnum.
Platnum is 35 times rarer than Gold.
Either Gold is expensive or Platnum is cheap, either way somthing isnt quite right with this picture.
elZorro
06-11-2011, 06:44 PM
Just out, gold to hit $5,000 an ounce.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43396080
Ok it's a bit old, June 2011 in fact. But this estimate is a result of extrapolating Asian demand, and assuming they will move to holding 11% of their reserves in gold, the global average. Is this the article that Skol has been frothing about? Looks very plausible to me. I'll just sit back with my goldies and wait..
“Most analysis focuses on demand from China and India, which of course can disappear as quickly as it materialized.”But that’s unlikely to happen over the next five years as central banks look to further diversify their holdings of U.S. dollars and as emerging countries buy more gold in the aftermath of the global paper currency crisis.
Here is the most relevant page from the audit of Fort Knox, carried out each year. This is just done in an office, there is no attempt to eyeball the gold or count the bars. Not a bad investment by the look of it. It'll be there, no problem..
Yes I saw that gold is predicted to hit $5000 an oz, but not very particular about when.
I'll predict it'll hit $5000 an ounce too, probably about 2125.
I remember Jim Rogers saying gold is gonna hit some colossal value too, but 'didn't know when'.
JBmurc
06-11-2011, 08:02 PM
Merkel Rejected IMF SDRs to Fund EFSF
"This initiative was rejected by the German side," the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung quotes Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert as saying in a report that was issued ahead of publication on Sunday.
Mr. Seibert also dismissed speculation that G-20 leaders had discussed using gold and currency reserves held by the Bundesbank as a way to bolster the EFSF.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203716204577020262625477198.html?m od=rss_whats_news_us
Hey JB,
Maybe you oughta ditch that stuff about Blackberrys. They've crashed, there's lots of bad news about RIM. Blackberrys are kaput.
They're recycling the blackberrys back into silver ingots.
elZorro
07-11-2011, 05:25 PM
Here's a prediction, gold will get past $1800 overnight (might not stay there).
drillfix
07-11-2011, 05:48 PM
I hope not eZ,
Not that it wont or couldn't, but more so that technically it gradually holds and slowly rises upwards with conviction rather than sporadic bursts that shake out wanna be long holders on declines as what goes up fast can also plunge fast, but hopefully the support (previous resistance) at 1748 will be continually respected with a couple of bounces here and there.
Although one failed fall has already been counted so far.
What drives this prediction though? just a feeling or the global fundamentals getting the be-jeebers put into the mix again?
elZorro
07-11-2011, 06:17 PM
Hi Drillfix, yes, just looking at the situation in Greece.
drillfix
07-11-2011, 06:21 PM
Hi Drillfix, yes, just looking at the situation in Greece.
A complete can of worms that situation.
Once completely open, and then out of the jack of the box comes italy, spain, ireland also so who knows where gold will be by then should that start playing out.
drillfix
08-11-2011, 05:09 AM
Well, close there eZ, gold is $1,780 as I type.
who knows if a rally will take place in the next 6 hours, but time for me to sleep now.
Good luck with all of your goldies tomorrow~!
Why would you buy gold based a bit of turmoil in Greece and Italy?
Italy's had more than 50 gubbermints since WW2 and Greece is famously known for financial shenanigans. More people own Porsche Cayennes in Greece that earn less than $40,000 p.a. than anywhere else in the world and oddly enough there's loads of Greek investors buying London property ATM but they appear on paper to be almost poverty-stricken.
I used to have dosh in Eurozone but not anymore thank goodness, I have some sterling stashed away but that's it.
elZorro
08-11-2011, 08:06 AM
Why would you buy gold based a bit of turmoil in Greece and Italy?
Italy's had more than 50 gubbermints since WW2 and Greece is famously known for financial shenanigans. More people own Porsche Cayennes in Greece that earn less than $40,000 p.a. than anywhere else in the world and oddly enough there's loads of Greek investors buying London property ATM but they appear on paper to be almost poverty-stricken.
I used to have dosh in Eurozone but not anymore thank goodness, I have some sterling stashed away but that's it.
While we argue over why, gold continues to reach for $1800 Skol.. Maybe those Greek drivers were just leasing their cars. I've heard it's common practice.
corran
08-11-2011, 08:44 AM
Why would you buy gold based a bit of turmoil in Greece and Italy?
Italy's had more than 50 gubbermints since WW2 and Greece is famously known for financial shenanigans. More people own Porsche Cayennes in Greece that earn less than $40,000 p.a. than anywhere else in the world and oddly enough there's loads of Greek investors buying London property ATM but they appear on paper to be almost poverty-stricken.
I used to have dosh in Eurozone but not anymore thank goodness, I have some sterling stashed away but that's it.
Obviously, given the Porsche Cayenne story, the greek citizens like their country are up to their eyeballs in debt!
In any country there's always going to be a few at the very top who're minted and these are the guys buying up the top end property in London. The fact they're scrambling to get their wealth out of Greece and out of euros is some indication to how serious they see this 'bit of turmoil'.
Over here in europe people don't see it as a bit of turmoil anymore.
Huang Chung
08-11-2011, 11:17 AM
Having just got back from a cruise around southern Europe, I was struck how nobody drove an old car. I'm not sure if it's laws that keep old cars off the road, or just living the high life.
drillfix
08-11-2011, 12:17 PM
Why would you buy gold based a bit of turmoil in Greece and Italy?
Why you say?
Umm, maybe because some of us dont actually give a Hoot whats happening in Greece and purely look at Gold and Silver Technically, whereby the new support is now $1,748 and as I type the price is $1,793.9x
So that is why.
Plus the fact that if this is technically where Gold is now before the actual event (be it some of the price is factored in atm) what happens after once it becomes Italy's turn up to bat, or Ireland or Spain. But then I dont even wanna talk about that, as I purely wish to talk about the technicals as the fundamentals are a bit to long drawn for me.
ps: EZ, close cigar mate you nearly cracked your predicament, just a few bucks away, although it still is my hope that more consolidation in the current range continues, so Well done mate.
drillfix
08-11-2011, 12:21 PM
Having just got back from a cruise around southern Europe, I was struck how nobody drove an old car. I'm not sure if it's laws that keep old cars off the road, or just living the high life.
HC Britain is a place where they have zero tolerance for sh!tters being allow on their roads, they makes stacks from MOT every year so if a car falls below the bar of MOT then, its no go and they dont get registered.
Hence why if you look at ebay over there in the UK you can see some what could be seen as pretty expensive cars being Wrecked over there for parts, whilst we here in Aus, drool to think how little the car sells for and what parts there are :P
Warren Buffett has bought $20 billion worth of stocks in the 3 months ending Sept. 30th. He reckons it's like buying on sale. He thinks gold's a complete waste of time and since the guy's so canny the stockmarket could be in for a turnaround.
Which reminds me, when's hyperinflation arriving?
Warren Buffett has bought $20 billion worth of stocks in the 3 months ending Sept. 30th. He reckons it's like buying on sale. He thinks gold's a complete waste of time and since the guy's so canny the stockmarket could be in for a turnaround.
Which reminds me, when's hyperinflation arriving?
Is there a link to what sort of stocks he has bought? cheers
Is there a link to what sort of stocks he has bought? cheers
www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-08/buffett-broadens-portfolio-by-spending-23-9-billion-in-quarter.html
trackers
09-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Warren Buffett has bought $20 billion worth of stocks in the 3 months ending Sept. 30th. He reckons it's like buying on sale. He thinks gold's a complete waste of time and since the guy's so canny the stockmarket could be in for a turnaround.
Which reminds me, when's hyperinflation arriving?
Biggest spending spree in 15 years (since the mid 90's) - Thats quite impressive..
elZorro
09-11-2011, 07:28 PM
This from MarketClub today, the gold trends have been strong for a few days, so let's see what happens in the London market tonight.
GOLD (SPOT)
————-
OUR VIEW: Resistance at $1,800 basis spotThe upward trend in gold remains intact with the Chart Analysis Score remaining at +100. This indicates to us to be very concerned about what is happening in Europe and the financial markets. Long-term and intermediate term trends remain positive for this precious metal. Intermediate and long-term traders should maintain long positions with the appropriate money management stops in place.
————-
Monthly trade triangles for Long-term trends = Positive
weekly trade triangles for intermediate term trends = Positive
daily trade triangles for short-term trends = Positive
Combined Strength of Trend Score = + 100
Vtrader
09-11-2011, 10:02 PM
Possible EWT count = B
V.
interesting read ...
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/56634/david-chaston-reports-chinas-gold-rush-and-public-and-private-demand-underpinning-strong-
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