SML - Synlait Milk Ltd

[billkiapi]

and I think he was pushed out...

[Bikeguy]

and I think he was pushed out...

Yes, I read it that way too

[nztx]

Yes, I read it that way too



Poor b*&&er .. look what that wind up doing to him :)

almost synful ..

[Poet]

and I think he was pushed out...
That's good to hear. He will probably make a good witness for the prosecution when the inevitable class action gets underway.

[Newman]

That's good to hear. He will probably make a good witness for the prosecution when the inevitable class action gets underway.

Legal actions against Feltex directors have been going on for 15 years+.

[Balance]

Legal actions against Feltex directors have been going on for 15 years+.

And got nowhere.

Cost the litigants millions of dollars so the lawyers are the big winners.

[billkiapi]

Class actions are usually litigation funded like Manziel was

[Toddy]

That's good to hear. He will probably make a good witness for the prosecution when the inevitable class action gets underway.

What laws have they broken?

[Balance]

Class actions are usually litigation funded like Manziel was

The liquidators took the directors off Mainzeal to court - it was not a class action from shareholders.

[Poet]

What laws have they broken?

I've no clue if they have broken any laws or failed to perform their legal obligations bit I'm sure we will find out once this has played out.
Certainly seems to me that the whole saga is being managed in the interests of some shareholders at the expense of others. Time will tell

[moimoi]

Yes, that’s a fair point, and could very well be the case.

I just can’t help thinking that the guy would be like anyone else, if it was actually as bad as it looks from the outside, and let’s face it he would have some knowledge of the reality, then surely you would sell out?
It doesn’t appear he has…

@ Bikeguy

Founders, or management that have been compensated in shares, almost never sell large blocks of shares on market. Not only can they not exit a large holding without crushing the market price even if they wanted to...by way of example todays turnover on the NZX was $17.5k..To do so would be viewed very very negatively by the rest of us unless the share price is compounding upwards year after year and/or can be justified as a "de-risking" of personal wealth.

No offence..but you seem to be asking a lot of questions on this forum that next to no one on here will have informed answers for.

If a large chunk of your net worth is on the line here then imo its time to seek professional advice rather then being guided by "sharetrader.co.nz" advice..

My opinion only..

GLTA.

[Bikeguy]

@ Bikeguy

Founders, or management that have been compensated in shares, almost never sell large blocks of shares on market. Not only can they not exit a large holding without crushing the market price even if they wanted to...by way of example todays turnover on the NZX was $17.5k..To do so would be viewed very very negatively by the rest of us unless the share price is compounding upwards year after year and/or can be justified as a "de-risking" of personal wealth.

No offence..but you seem to be asking a lot of questions on this forum that next to no one on here will have informed answers for.

If a large chunk of your net worth is on the line here then imo its time to seek professional advice rather then being guided by "sharetrader.co.nz" advice..

My opinion only..

GLTA.

I respect your right to your opinion,
I apologise to anyone if you feel I have been asking to many questions on SML or any other shares on this forum, I just find it interesting.

[kiora]

Are there some investors still not familiar with what happened here?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/national-business-review_synlait-a2-milk-named-after-court-lifts-activity-7100229601016119296-G6B2/

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5751329

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/6283988/shareholdings

[Balance]

I respect your right to your opinion,
I apologise to anyone if you feel I have been asking to many questions on SML or any other shares on this forum, I just find it interesting.

Nothing to apologise for asking questions. Up to others whether they want to engage and interact (answer, speculate or query further) but as is often said, better to ask and appear foolish for 1 minute but be enlightened, rather than keep quiet and stay ignorant for life.

SML is a very interesting situation and there are so many moving parts to consider before the situation is resolved.

In the end though, it is going to come down to one thing and imo, one thing only which will determine SML's fate.

[Bikeguy]

Nothing to apologise for asking questions. Up to others whether they want to engage and interact (answer, speculate or query further) but as is often said, better to ask and appear foolish for 1 minute but be enlightened, rather than keep quiet and stay ignorant for life.

SML is a very interesting situation and there are so many moving parts to consider before the situation is resolved.

In the end though, it is going to come down to one thing and imo, one thing only which will determine SML's fate.

I have enjoyed the Sharetrader Forum, I am not a big investor and other than kiwi saver I have $5 k spread across 5 shares, so I don’t want to take up anyone’s time on here, I just thought Sharetrader was a pretty open thing,
I can clearly see that some posters on here are seriously financially astute and financial professionals in their careers, I have benefited from reading their thoughts and posts, so I say thank you to them for taking the time to post,

Balance can I ask you, what do you think that one thing is that will determine SML fate? (And my 1k) lol

[RupertBear]

I have enjoyed the Sharetrader Forum, I am not a big investor and other than kiwi saver I have $5 k spread across 5 shares, so I don’t want to take up anyone’s time on here, I just thought Sharetrader was a pretty open thing,
I can clearly see that some posters on here are seriously financially astute and financial professionals in their careers, I have benefited from reading their thoughts and posts, so I say thank you to them for taking the time to post,

Balance can I ask you, what do you think that one thing is that will determine SML fate? (And my 1k) lol

Bikeguy please keep posting and asking questions. They are questions many of us are mulling over as well. And it makes no difference whether you are a big investor or a smaller one. It is your hard earned money at stake so I understand you wanting to understand as much as possible about what is going on and what the potential outcome will be. We are all wondering the same thing. I dont think moimoi was criticising you for asking lots of questions rather it was his/her way of expressing concern for you if you had a large holding. That was my take on it. Good luck

[Bikeguy]

Bikeguy please keep posting and asking questions. They are questions many of us are mulling over as well. And it makes no difference whether you are a big investor or a smaller one. It is your hard earned money at stake so I understand you wanting to understand as much as possible about what is going on and what the potential outcome will be. We are all wondering the same thing. I dont think moimoi was criticising you for asking lots of questions rather it was his/her way of expressing concern for you if you had a large holding. That was my take on it. Good luck

Respect to you Rupertbear, and respect to Moimoi too👊

[Newman]

Does anyone know why Jarden Direct restricts placing buy/sell orders to the last trading percentage plus/minus 2%? Currently, only orders between 170-174% will be accepted.

[stoploss]

Does anyone know why Jarden Direct restricts placing buy/sell orders to the last trading percentage plus/minus 2%? Currently, only orders between 170-174% will be accepted.
I think it is to stop someone making a FAT FINGERS error.... very frustrating in the case of news on a small illiquid stock.
You might have to call them and get them to release the order manually.

[Balance]

I think it is to stop someone making a FAT FINGERS error.... very frustrating in the case of news on a small illiquid stock.
You might have to call them and get them to release the order manually.

Most unusual turnaround on the bonds - all bids and no offers currently.

[whatsup]

Most unusual turnaround on the bonds - all bids and no offers currently.

If that the case bets on that SML will pull through ?

[billkiapi]

@balance Pretty sure it was litigation funded and was a creditor of Manziel action?

[Balance]

@balance Pretty sure it was litigation funded and was a creditor of Manziel action?

The liquidator of Mainzeal took the case against the directors and won. It was 100% not litigation funded.

https://norlinglaw.co.nz/reckless-directors-of-mainzeal-ordered-to-pay-36-million/

Litigation funded cases in NZ are few and far in between.

Feltex was one and the case funded by litigants lost. Unfairly imo but that’s how the cookie crumbled. 3 QCs and an army of lawyers represented the defendants - that’s how much the insurance companies and defenders threw at the case.

The class action against A2M is pending the outcome of a similar class action in Australia.

I don’t know of any others.

[Balance]

If that the case bets on that SML will pull through ?

Any yield over 25% implies junk bond status imo and high likelihood of default.

SML’s sp however suggests otherwise.

[Balance]

I have enjoyed the Sharetrader Forum, I am not a big investor and other than kiwi saver I have $5 k spread across 5 shares, so I don’t want to take up anyone’s time on here, I just thought Sharetrader was a pretty open thing,
I can clearly see that some posters on here are seriously financially astute and financial professionals in their careers, I have benefited from reading their thoughts and posts, so I say thank you to them for taking the time to post,

Balance can I ask you, what do you think that one thing is that will determine SML fate? (And my 1k) lol

There are certainly some professionals and experienced investors contributing on this site - posters have to watch out for who they are and what are their motivations!

Most contribute to share their knowledge and experience. And we should be thankful for that.

A few do so to take advantage of the newbies so be careful you do not become a sheep to the slaughter!

[billkiapi]

The liquidator of Mainzeal took the case against the directors and won. It was 100% not litigation funded.

https://norlinglaw.co.nz/reckless-directors-of-mainzeal-ordered-to-pay-36-million/

Litigation funded cases in NZ are few and far in between.

Feltex was one and the case funded by litigants lost. Unfairly imo but that’s how the cookie crumbled. 3 QCs and an army of lawyers represented the defendants - that’s how much the insurance companies and defenders threw at the case.

The class action against A2M is pending the outcome of a similar class action in Australia.

I don’t know of any others.


manziel funded by LPF: “In late 2014, the Mainzeal liquidators, on behalf of the creditors, approached LPF for funding to assist in taking legal action against the directors.”

https://www.lpfgroup.co.nz/post/mainzeal-a-litigation-funder-s-perspective

[billkiapi]

Are there some investors still not familiar with what happened here?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/national-business-review_synlait-a2-milk-named-after-court-lifts-activity-7100229601016119296-G6B2/

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5751329

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/6283988/shareholdings

yes, I come back to that untidy situation- something very fishy went on there- and I remember something in the NBR in last few weeks about the case, but I can’t find it. Surely Peno didn’t try to stick it to A2M…. If he did, we are all wearing the result of that

[Balance]

manziel funded by LPF: “In late 2014, the Mainzeal liquidators, on behalf of the creditors, approached LPF for funding to assist in taking legal action against the directors.”

https://www.lpfgroup.co.nz/post/mainzeal-a-litigation-funder-s-perspective

Thank you, billkiapi!

I stand absolutely corrected and have learnt something new.

[Balance]

yes, I come back to that untidy situation- something very fishy went on there- and I remember something in the NBR in last few weeks about the case, but I can’t find it. Surely Peno didn’t try to stick it to A2M…. If he did, we are all wearing the result of that

You mean this article?

https://www.nbr.co.nz/investment/penno-actions-regrettable-and-unacceptable-says-a2-letter/

I don’t have a subscription so cannot elaborate any further.

[kiora]

This one
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/national-business-review_synlait-a2-milk-named-after-court-lifts-activity-7100229601016119296-G6B2/

Ouch very messy

[silverblizzard888]

You mean this article?

https://www.nbr.co.nz/investment/penno-actions-regrettable-and-unacceptable-says-a2-letter/

I don’t have a subscription so cannot elaborate any further.

This begins with a company called Trust Codes that offers product tracing technology to A2 and Synlait. Apparently Penno was not forthcoming to A2 that he was a shareholder of Trust Codes through his investment vehicle Okoura Holdings. Signum the main owner of Trust Codes was in financial trouble and one of its creditors was Okoura, Penno's investment vehicle. Penno sought to put them in receivership, which really annoyed A2 because they had a good working relationship with Trust Codes management and had they known Trust Codes was in trouble they would have provided financial backing to them. Okoura had the power to put Signum and Trust Codes into receivership which would have affected A2's business.

A2's David Bortolussi had concerns regarding Penno's position as Chair of Synlait and Shareholder of Trust Codes who Penno had a shareholding in and his wife was Chair of Trust Codes too, meaning they ultimately has influence in both companies A2 was a big customer to. Bortolussi said it was unacceptable to A2 being a shareholder and customer of Synlait that Penno influence both companies and withheld his interest in Trust Codes. Ultimately they were very annoyed that he could have disrupted their business if he had put Trust Codes into recievership, along with apparently a nasty email sent to Bortolussi with negative remarks about Trust Codes CEO.

Could be a big reason why Penno resigned recent from the board. His past conflicts with A2 probably does not sit well with them.

[Balance]

Thanks sb888.

Sounds indeed like John Penno should have removed himself earlier from A2M after the Trust Codes’ episode. Bright might have been unaware of what was happening between John, DB and A2M until it blew up in the courts.

Definitely would not have helped the working relationship between SML and A2M.