WHS - Warehouse Group

[ralph]

I suppose the Board are showing due diligence a day to late !!
Adamanten Capital A C & Tindall could be genuine contenders for the nz supermarket monopoly I would suspect these two have already had a chinwag or two on this before Friday and Tindall would know
the s p is ripe .
Fishing it is

[percy]

A couple of Fridays ago I put a buy order in at 98 cents near the end of the day.
It wasn't actioned and over the weekend I lost my nerve, decided I was nuts, and cancelled the order.
So I'm both nuts and not very clever.......

Welcome to TP [Team Percy]

[X-men]

Gosh!!! All NZx companies are being taken over!!!

Where else to put the money on??!!!!

[peat]

Me too peat.
In a quandary now as it has jumped past my 40% profit sell significantly ,and I had a longer term expectations .
Are you taking the advice not to sell , as it goes against my natural inclination .
This is the time when I need to go fishing
I would suggest you rethink the 40% profit sell. It means you'll never have a huge win. especially if you have longer term expectations
No I'm not selling yet maybe at $2

[Panda-NZ-]

The warehouse becoming the third supermarket?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/business/supermarket-plans-sir-stephen-tindall-and-private-equity-firm-make-offer-for-shares-in-the-warehouse/

[Bjauck]

Wow - got to wonder if anyone is going to be in trouble for insider trading. The NZ share market is riddled with these suspcious spikes in price before momentous announcements, and presumably insiders profiting. Although not a WHS holder, I have had shares that have been similarly affected. It seems we have to accept it as part of investing on a small exchange.

[waikare]

I would suggest you rethink the 40% profit sell. It means you'll never have a huge win. especially if you have longer term expectations
No I'm not selling yet maybe at $2

I am not a very keen seller as I brought my first lot of WHS share on share offer back in November 1994, at $2.50 cps

[silverblizzard888]

(Non-binding) offer is out, ranging from $1.50-$1.70

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434931

[Perky]

Double up as above

[Oliver Mander]

Takeover offer is out, ranging from $1.50-$1.70

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434931
Just a quick comment - a big difference between a non-binding indicative offer and a 'takeover'

[850man]

(Non-binding) offer is out, ranging from $1.50-$1.70

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434931

Will that price meet with sufficient shareholders approval to be carried through? Many are in it for more than $1.70 a share.

[silverblizzard888]

Just a quick comment - a big difference between a non-binding indicative offer and a 'takeover'

Thats true, not quite a polished offer yet.


Will that price meet with sufficient shareholders approval to be carried through? Many are in it for more than $1.70 a share.
They would have to offer more than $1.50 for sure given the share price is sitting at $1.45 and only just 4 months ago was trading higher. Very much taking advantage of the doom and gloom situation The Warehouse is in at the moment. I think enough shareholders will accept $1.70 to get pass the 75% majority, but some will have wanted $2 to be fairly compensated.

[Leemsip]

Seems like a low ball offer.... Board got to knock it back.
Underwhelming

[winner69]

Seems like a low ball offer.... Board got to knock it back.
Underwhelming

Rejection of previous offers in the past has not resulted in good outcomes for shareholders ……. company performance slowing fading into oblivion

[winner69]

Market was pretty clever yesterday bidding share price up $1.50 eh

More than 50% gain in a few days

[kiwikeith]

Interesting situation. There seems an opportunity to make some money here. However, if a bid does not materialize, you will left holding shares in company that has many shops with a 'tired' vibe and in need of rejuvenation.

[peat]

market appears to be discounting the informal non committed proposal quite markedly.

[Bikeguy]

Interesting situation. There seems an opportunity to make some money here. However, if a bid does not materialize, you will left holding shares in company that has many shops with a 'tired' vibe and in need of rejuvenation.

It’s a very fair point…this one is interesting…most longer term holders would need to clear more than 1.70 wouldn’t they? As in alot would still be under water at that mark?

[kiwical]

It’s a very fair point…this one is interesting…most longer term holders would need to clear more than 1.70 wouldn’t they? As in alot would still be under water at that mark?Same is true for shorter term holders. It was hovering at $1.70 in December, only started sliding from January this year.

[Sideshow Bob]

Dean is going to be busy - full time CEO at Ryman and then a bit of workload on the sub-committee at WHS. Although as many mention here quite quickly, it might be found to be underwhelming......

[Bikeguy]

Same is true for shorter term holders. It was hovering at $1.70 in December, only started sliding from January this year.

Yes, agree… it’s abit low surely?

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Not familiar with NZ takeovers/offers - would it be normal practice for the board to make a counter proposal back if the price is judged to be too low (which I think is true)?

[Bikeguy]

Is the big shareholder Tindall already endorsing this 1.50-1.70 range? Is he saying his 40 odd percent total shareholding is on board at this range? I may have this wrong

[silverblizzard888]

Not familiar with NZ takeovers/offers - would it be normal practice for the board to make a counter proposal back if the price is judged to be too low (which I think is true)?

Yes the board should be acting for shareholder interest and if they think the bid is too low, then they can counter.


Is the big shareholder Tindall already endorsing this 1.50-1.70 range? Is he saying his 40 odd percent total shareholding is on board at this range? I may have this wrong

Tindall isn't affected either way because he isn't sell any shares, so im sure hes on board. He just wants to turn WHS around and the current set up isn't enough to do it.

[malreid]

My taken on this is that Tindall ends up with 48.5% ("...up to 50%...") or thereabouts of the resulting company with the balance held by ACM or as treasury stock if that's the right term for it.

[Bjauck]

Market was pretty clever yesterday bidding share price up $1.50 eh

More than 50% gain in a few days
If you can find other good uses for the funds, and with an uncertain offer, from my past experience a bird in the hand can be worth two in the bush. I have seen takeover approaches dry up. However circumstances differ and this is not advice!

[Balance]

Essentially, the proposal is a privatisation of the Warehouse by a JV of Tindall & Adamantem. Depending on the funding structure (PE always tend to use as much debt as they can), Tindall will free up some of his capital tied up in the Warehouse.

There is considerable due diligence to take place so there’s going to be months yet of water to flow under this bridge.

Will Adamantem agree with Tindall’s perennially positive view of the Warehouse? Or is it really a case that the footprint is attractive enough to launch into the supermarket trade as speculated?

[Toddy]

Essentially, the proposal is a privatisation of the Warehouse by a JV of Tindall & Adamantem. Depending on the funding structure (PE always tend to use as much debt as they can), Tindall will free up some of his capital tied up in the Warehouse.

There is considerable due diligence to take place so there’s going to be months yet of water to flow under this bridge.

Will Adamantem agree with Tindall’s perennially positive view of the Warehouse? Or is it really a case that the footprint is attractive enough to launch into the supermarket trade as speculated?

So how does this work. Don't most supermarkets lease back the buildings, not own them due to the capital requirements.

I like the vision. It's like a property grab. Buildings would have to be converted one by one, sold off and leased back. Then an owner operator buys in.

At the end of the day, a major break up of the assets, repackaged, even a new supermarket NZX listing etc. And posh clean modern looking buildings in small town NZ.

Win win win.

[percy]

Supermarkets would require a lot of skills Tindall does not have.
Butchery,Bakery,Deli,Liquor,Fresh Fruit and Vegetables,
Incredible logistics the WHS have not mastered.
Capable staff.Good store layouts.
Nationwide set up costs,freezers,display cabinets,home delivery vans etc would require very deep pockets.

.

[Sideshow Bob]

Out of interest, does anyone know at what price/value Stephen Tindall got when they listed in 1994?

Probably already got more than $600m out of it.

[sunnysleeper11]

So how does this work. Don't most supermarkets lease back the buildings, not own them due to the capital requirements.

I like the vision. It's like a property grab. Buildings would have to be converted one by one, sold off and leased back. Then an owner operator buys in.

At the end of the day, a major break up of the assets, repackaged, even a new supermarket NZX listing etc. And posh clean modern looking buildings in small town NZ.

Win win win.

do you know how many of the warehouse's warehouses are owned /leased by them?
cheers

[Toddy]

I have no idea. Never looked at the WHS accounts as it's an investment I've never been interested in.

What I do understand is that the WHS has had its day. So any new model would help stop the shops from becoming ghost exercises.

[winner69]

do you know how many of the warehouse's warehouses are owned /leased by them?
cheers

They still own a bit of property but not sure how many

Have $755m lease liabilities though

[ralph]

Supermarkets would require a lot of skills Tindall does not have.
Butchery,Bakery,Deli,Liquor,Fresh Fruit and Vegetables,
Incredible logistics the WHS have not mastered.
Capable staff.Good store layouts.
Nationwide set up costs,freezers,display cabinets,home delivery vans etc would require very deep pockets.



. Hey Percy I think any consortium Adam ant whatever will have thought of this a long time ago and have something tasty lined up rather than a random punt .
Hopefully its Aldi lol oh Aldi do not have a bakery or butchery !!

[percy]

Hey Percy I think any consortium Adam ant whatever will have thought of this a long time ago and have something tasty lined up rather than a random punt .
Hopefully its Aldi lol oh Aldi do not have a bakery or butchery !!

Aldi would make it work.Bring it on...lol

[LaserEyeKiwi]

I have no idea. Never looked at the WHS accounts as it's an investment I've never been interested in.

What I do understand is that the WHS has had its day. So any new model would help stop the shops from becoming ghost exercises.

For context, WHS is still earning in the ballpark of $3 Billion revenue annually.

[Toddy]

For context, WHS is still earning in the ballpark of $3 Billion revenue annually.

So why would shareholders agree to the low ball offer then.

The Private equity boys will take all the lollies....

[Balance]

So why would shareholders agree to the low ball offer then.

The Private equity boys will take all the lollies....

Could be $5 billion revenues but what is pertinent is net profit and cashflow.

[Sideshow Bob]

Could be $5 billion revenues but what is pertinent is net profit and cashflow.

Reminds me of the old quote......

"Revenue is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is king"

[percy]

Reminds me of the old quote......

"Revenue is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is king"

What a great quote.
Thanks for posting.

[peat]

Revenue has some merit though, your business is attracting customers and it means you're selling stuff
Having billions of sales is infinitely preferable to having none at all. You can focus on turning those sales into profitable ones whereas if you have no sales you have to focus on marketing.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Hmmm maybe there will be some consequences for someone…Investigation into trading in warehouse shares prior to the buyout offer.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/retail/complaint-filed-to-nzx-over-warehouse-share-trading-prior-to-buyout-offer

[silverblizzard888]

Hmmm maybe there will be some consequences for someone…Investigation into trading in warehouse shares prior to the buyout offer.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/retail/complaint-filed-to-nzx-over-warehouse-share-trading-prior-to-buyout-offer

Yes it was too obvious for a stock that has an average trading volume of 111k shares per day and to suddenly have trading volume of 824k shares the day prior to a takeover approach, especially when for over a month no trading day exceeded 150k share traded volume.

[Nor]

Bought 90 tins of my cat's fav at WHS yesterday. Way cheaper than pak'n shove.
Grabbed as much as I could, reckon my branch can't last much longer in a mall with an empty car park 😮

Nescafé jars cheaper at Warehouse than at pak'n'save today.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Nescafé jars cheaper at Warehouse than at pak'n'save today.

That will appeal to the coupon cutter crowd, but not sure that is gonna help the main problem of lack of a big enough range to encourage most shoppers to do their main weekly supermarket trip at The Warehouse. Currently with their supply agreements, they may actually be better off doing the Costco style grocery option: smaller range, but big discounts for buying in bulk quantity.

[malreid]

Nescafé jars cheaper at Warehouse than at pak'n'save today.
Lowest common denominator x lowest common denominator - variety^2 = how much customer appeal again? :laugh:

[bulltrap]

Much has been said of Kmart reopening in South Dunedin recently, and how the nearby Warehouse stands to lose out.

If doubling down on the grocery offering is the solution, the problem then is that The Warehouse there is co-located with Pak'NSave, and anecdotally struggles to poach customers even for its current cherry-picked supermarket offerings.

I've done a bit of data crunching to correlate the locations of the 86 Red Sheds listed across NZ, with the 57 Pak'NSave stores. About a quarter of the Red Sheds are a short hop from a Pak'NSave (within 500m), and more than half have a Pak'NSave less than 2km away.

I haven't checked distances to Kmarts, but there's only around 26 operating in NZ so far.

Make of that what you will.

[nztx]

So while St Stephen & the White Stallion carrying the Saviour Rescue mission prance backwards & forwards on the takeout - that must surely spell the end of even slightest smell of any minute dividend if the breeze happens to change favourably ahead ? :)

[Perky]

No takeover…by Adamantem

[nztx]

Next offer $1.25 while the outfit slides further towards sub Buck level on nothing happening ? ;)

Aussie rules - if the target doesn't behave, chop a few more lengths out of the legs of the goalposts :)

Prospect of a Div must be well & truly curried by now .. or not ?

[Doug]

No takeover…by Adamantem

My wife and I have a few WHS shares and intended to vote against the offer as it stood so good news for me. Despite all the negative talk here I think the company will rise again if it sticks to what it knows.

[Newman]

The Warehouse should lobby the government to close the tax loop of online shopping at, e.g., Temu.

[kiwikeith]

The Warehouse should lobby the government to close the tax loop of online shopping at, e.g., Temu.

What is the tax loophole?

[pierre]

Seems like the Norman's are not that interested in flogging groceries from the red sheds - not at $1.50 - $1.70 per share anyway.

[Balance]

Seems like the Norman's are not that interested in flogging groceries from the red sheds - not at $1.50 - $1.70 per share anyway.

Subjecting WHS to a slow painful demise imo.

[silverblizzard888]

The offer was too low and holders like the Norman family don't need the money, so they would have been holding out for a high offer. With nearly 20% of the shares, if they aren't convinced it was hard to get any offer over the line.

[whatsup]

The offer was too low and holders like the Norman family don't need the money, so they would have been holding out for a high offer. With nearly 20% of the shares, if they aren't convinced it was hard to get any offer over the line.

888, they have what in the U S is called "a stranded investment", unless they buy out Stephen sometime, imho there are better retail investments out there if they want to expand in that area. !

[kiwical]

The Warehouse should lobby the government to close the tax loop of online shopping at, e.g., Temu. Are you referring to GST? That is collected by these larger online retailers and passed on to the Govt. Has been that way for a few years now. Things like corporate tax is another story. But these places are often/usually registered in tax haven locations. Your specific example of Temu is owned by PDD Holdings, registered in Cayman Islands.

[Perky]

Does any one know what the ave price/ share the Norman’s holding owes them?

I think they bought their stake in several tranches but bulk between $2.50 to $3 range at a guess.

They probably in no rush…just saying show us the decent money for our 20%…lol

I reckon this got more legs to play out

[nztx]

888, they have what in the U S is called "a stranded investment", unless they buy out Stephen sometime, imho there are better retail investments out there if they want to expand in that area. !


Buying out St Stephen at better rates further down the track - was that one of the intended goals of the approach & a distaste for the recent WHS trajectory under the paid talent floundering away ? ;)

Maybe the business model has lost it's way already and eventual demise or otherwise down the track inevitable ? :)

[limmy]

Will Adamantem raise their offer ?

[Hoop]

You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away, know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

Written by Don Schlitz, recorded by various Artists including Kenny Rogers

[JeremyALD]

Does this basically mean that unless the Norman's agree to a takeover, The Warehouse is unlikely to ever delist?

[tim23]

Does this basically mean that unless the Norman's agree to a takeover, The Warehouse is unlikely to ever delist?

There are often other suitors.

[Balance]

Does this basically mean that unless the Norman's agree to a takeover, The Warehouse is unlikely to ever delist?

Stephen could sell his stake and cede control to an acquirer who could then proceed to make the same offer to minorities, who can accept or not. Just makes it much harder to implement wholesale change in strategy and management as a public listed entity.

Unlikely Stephen would sell though as WHS is his baby.

[Newman]

Are you referring to GST? That is collected by these larger online retailers and passed on to the Govt. Has been that way for a few years now. Things like corporate tax is another story. But these places are often/usually registered in tax haven locations. Your specific example of Temu is owned by PDD Holdings, registered in Cayman Islands.
Thanks for the information.I could misunderstand the GST and parcel delivery issues.

Would the Warehouse be able to sell its land to retirement villages?

[stoploss]

Thanks for the information.I could misunderstand the GST and parcel delivery issues.

Would the Warehouse be able to sell its land to retirement villages?
I think they already sold it all or a lot and lease it back these days .

[kiora]

"Sir Stephen and the Tindall Foundation owned 48 percent of the Warehouse Group, while the James Pascoe Group (owner of Pascoes), owned nearly 20 percent.

"The current scheme of arrangement doesn't have the critical shareholder backing it needs to proceed,"

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/523974/aussie-takeover-bid-for-the-warehouse-falls-through

Who decides?

https://register.charities.govt.nz/CharitiesRegister/ViewCharity?accountId=c38ee76e-fe04-dd11-99cd-0015c5f3da29&searchId=6f35a9fd-3a71-470a-80cf-52237d037e3b

Officers
Officer Name Position Effective Date
Rukumoana Tira Marie Schaafhausen
Trustee
18/09/2018
Robert John Tindall
Trustee
7/06/2011
Jennifer Mary Casey
Trustee
8/09/2006
Margaret Maria Tindall
Trustee
14/09/1994
Stephen Robert Tindall
Trustee
14/09/1994

[bull....]

back to slow death. along with the share price. wonder what pascoe plan is ? buyout at 50c ?

[Habits]

back to slow death. along with the share price. wonder what pascoe plan is ? buyout at 50c ?

There's more buzz around the company, the second offer from tindall will come in higher, I cant see it getting back to the lows

[whatsup]

back to slow death. along with the share price. wonder what pascoe plan is ? buyout at 50c ?

I do not think what a effect on retail Temu is having having through out the country and there is no answer to it that I could think of ?

[tim23]

There's more buzz around the company, the second offer from tindall will come in higher, I cant see it getting back to the lows

Hard not to agree- one thing in their favour is the strategic sites where stores are located a 3rd supermarket operator would have difficulty in securing these sites so making a takeover makes sense.