View Full Version : TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]
DonkeyKong
15-12-2023, 04:54 PM
How do we see what's happening? (if we can?)
Greekwatchdog
15-12-2023, 04:54 PM
..... :eek2: ..... have another look!
golly, so what does everyone do know? sell or hold based on fundamentals?
Ricky-bobby
15-12-2023, 04:55 PM
It’s coming up again… $4.77
bulltrap
15-12-2023, 04:55 PM
GTK is matching at a new recent high of $6.70. Maybe I backed the wrong horse here.
Ricky-bobby
15-12-2023, 04:56 PM
How do we see what's happening? (if we can?)
I’m just on jarden and watching…
Ricky-bobby
15-12-2023, 04:59 PM
Now $4.69… man my other shares are having a good lift! It’s all go!
DonkeyKong
15-12-2023, 05:02 PM
--------------------------
Baa_Baa
15-12-2023, 05:02 PM
$4.68 close, down 10 cents. Who won the poll?
looks like one seller for 500k @ 1.74 left out in the cold
ronaldson
15-12-2023, 05:03 PM
It's all over at $4.68.
Now on to the next question. What will the close price be next Friday, when the dust has settled?
bull....
15-12-2023, 05:03 PM
savaged and look at all the sellers who missed out :scared:
see weed
15-12-2023, 05:07 PM
lol:):):)lol I'm all out at a profit. Thank you Basil. Ok where's the next one. Maybe back to HLG before it gets back to 5.80c while waiting.
Greekwatchdog
15-12-2023, 05:10 PM
so who won and lost? Roulette if your trying to play this game
ronaldson
15-12-2023, 05:12 PM
3.265m volume today if no more crossings.
bull....
15-12-2023, 05:24 PM
back to fundamentals now. if it was valued at 3.60odd before index inclusion momentum and yes we have had some upgrades and good news. do you think that was worth a $ 1.08 more to valuation ?
Greekwatchdog
15-12-2023, 05:27 PM
back to fundamentals now. if it was valued at 3.60odd before index inclusion momentum and yes we have had some upgrades and good news. do you think that was worth a $ 1.08 more to valuation ?
My guess it just drifts down to where the market thinks its fair value.
I hope no one got caught in the hype
bulltrap
15-12-2023, 05:32 PM
lol:):):)lol I'm all out at a profit. Thank you Basil. Ok where's the next one. Maybe back to HLG before it gets back to 5.80c while waiting.
Ditto. Even made back what I lost holding on to HLG after that 'pop' fizzled. Enough for some new clothes at HLG, but not a second-hand car at TRA.
Hope to buy back in to both companies for the long term, when the time is right. Great iconic Kiwi brands with excellent div yields.
alokdhir
15-12-2023, 11:11 PM
Day 10 Finals ....3.268 Million @ $ 4.681 ....wow ...volume more than expectations ....SP less then expectations ...maybe it was too widely participated as safe stock to speculate ...still not bad result for holders ...
Now for next weeks fizzle expectations ...may not happen ...short term bottom $ 4.30 ??
alokdhir
15-12-2023, 11:14 PM
It's all over at $4.68.
Now on to the next question. What will the close price be next Friday, when the dust has settled?
My pick is that we will see $ 4.30 during or end of week !!!
alokdhir
15-12-2023, 11:19 PM
savaged and look at all the sellers who missed out :scared:
I promised u more then 3 million volume for the week ...U got almost 4 million volume ...so we good mate ?? :p
alokdhir
15-12-2023, 11:42 PM
All the operators / big players orders get removed after show over ...only retail orders are left ( mostly ) shows many retail also missed on selling today as still showing more then 200K at various levels ...shud be some pressure next week ...may offer good buying opportunities ...Bull will be rubbing hands gleefully ...lol
All the operators / big players orders get removed after show over ...only retail orders are left ( mostly ) shows many retail also missed on selling today as still showing more then 200K at various levels ...shud be some pressure next week ...may offer good buying opportunities ...Bull will be rubbing hands gleefully ...lol
As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.
alokdhir
16-12-2023, 08:03 AM
As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.
Agree with your sensible thoughts ...
What makes me wonder is the total Vol of the match session ....if the total buy side was index funds ( most likely ) then why they bought almost 3.3 Mil against market expectations of 2.2 Mil ?? How can be calculations so adrift that one full extra million got traded ??
Agree with your sensible thoughts ...
What makes me wonder is the total Vol of the match session ....if the total buy side was index funds ( most likely ) then why they bought almost 3.3 Mil against market expectations of 2.2 Mil ?? How can be calculations so adrift that one full extra million got traded ??
I wondered that too. First, while brokers estimate the # of shares required to meet indexation, they are (clearly) just estimates. Estimating S&P index inclusions & weightings - from the outside - is a dark art and I've seen a number of brokers periodically change the way they maintain their index watching index when "their understanding of S&P's inclusion process changes", usually after they've spoken with S&P. Those broker estimates get done way in advance and while usually spot on in terms of who gets included, the constituent weighting probably more variable. You'll recall S&P only distributed the index shares data for capped and equal weighted indices on the 8th of December.
Second observation is those estimated shares required just for the NZX50. TRA also added into the midcap index which adds more demand, but probably less than a quarter than that of the NZX50 (based on eying the relative capitalisations of FNZ & MDZ).
While when we talk about instos and ETFs needing to buy - we are mainly talking about Smartshares in the NZ context. It's possible a few extra instos wanted to be involved. For HLG, the broker estimates for required shares were spot on. Perhaps in that case additional quasi index trackers opted not to participate in their discretion and did here - or maybe the estimates were in aggregate just wrong - I just don't know.
What is also kinda interesting is to look at the number of shares traded in the closing match but equally important adjust session (when off market agreements are reported).
TRA
Closing match: 1.902m shares
Off market trades: 1.294m shares (40.5% total)
Total: 3.197m
Gentrack
Closing match: 1.174m
Off market: 2.601m (68.9%)
Total: 3.776m
GTK had a fantastic run - finished its pop at a high. Turners mirrored Hallenstein Glassons, with its intraday peak 2 days prior to the final close before inclusion.
edit: actually see TRA hit 4.85 intraday on 4 december.
Buyers
Buy Quantity
Prices
3
100,924
$5.100
2
723,506
$4.900
1
1,297
$4.860
2
788,985
$4.800
1
2,512
$4.790
1
300,000
$4.730
1
63
$4.700
1
9,319
$4.650
1
3,230
$4.640
3
87,000
$4.600
16
2,016,836
Prices
Sell Quantity
Sellers
$4.290
9,582
1
$4.300
80,000
1
$4.310
50,000
1
$4.320
50,000
1
$4.330
50,000
1
$4.340
4,002
1
$4.350
50,000
1
$4.360
50,000
1
$4.370
25,000
1
$4.400
25,000
1
393,584
10
I think this post is a worthy one to unpick there was some off thread discussion on why people would lob such low sell orders in the face of high buy orders during the 15 minute pre close session leading up to the closing match / closing auction.
From the NZX: "The Closing Auction occurs at a random time 30 seconds either side of 5:00pm. Like the opening auction, the closing auction is a single price print which becomes the close of the stock on the day. The Closing Auction algorithm is exactly the same as that used in the opening auction. It will compute the price at which it can clear the greatest amount of stock, and all bids and offers at, and overlapping, this level will execute at this, single closing print price."
Probably most DIY investors here are using some sort of platform that shows a market depth with buyers ranked high to low and sellers ranked low to high, each at their respective top 10 price points. But it certainly doesn't show everything. The sell depth above only had 393k of sellers whereas 1.9m shares wound up clearing in the closing auction (but worth calling the depth in the 15 minute period can change as orders are made or amended).
I wouldn't imagine those low sellers expected to their $4.30 -4.40 a share - they were trying to get certainty that that tranche of their holding would absolutely sell in the closing match at the higher prevailing weighted close price. And then I'd imagine some had tranches of shares they were more relaxed about not moving placed at higher price points.
For most retail investors they don't need to participate in the closing match as the liquidity is there to sell at anytime in the lead up to inclusion, and indeed, sometimes at better prices as in the case of TRA/HLG (but not GTK). But I imagine that for traders who had purchased personally meaningful holdings, & were determined to sell into the closing match & wanted certainty it would transact in order limit to potential post inclusion weakness, might look to place sell orders at a lower level than they want or ultimately expect to achieve to ensure they are in overlap during the closing auction. They might not expect to get that price - but that's the risk they take when clicking the button. In theory it'll have an impact on the match price, but given the sheer volume and weight of the ETFs buying and large holders selling, might not move the dial much, but will depend on how comfortable they are with the quantum of shares needing to be purchased and what the depth is looking like.
Anyway, just some random thoughts, and in the spirit of discussion around special events like these index inclusions. Interested in other people's perspectives as each one of these is a new learning opportunity.
see weed
16-12-2023, 12:43 PM
I think this post is a worthy one to unpick there was some off thread discussion on why people would lob such low sell orders in the face of high buy orders during the 15 minute pre close session leading up to the closing match / closing auction.
From the NZX: "The Closing Auction occurs at a random time 30 seconds either side of 5:00pm. Like the opening auction, the closing auction is a single price print which becomes the close of the stock on the day. The Closing Auction algorithm is exactly the same as that used in the opening auction. It will compute the price at which it can clear the greatest amount of stock, and all bids and offers at, and overlapping, this level will execute at this, single closing print price."
Probably most DIY investors here are using some sort of platform that shows a market depth with buyers ranked high to low and sellers ranked low to high, each at their respective top 10 price points. But it certainly doesn't show everything. The sell depth above only had 393k of sellers whereas 1.9m shares wound up clearing in the closing auction (but worth calling the depth in the 15 minute period can change as orders are made or amended).
I wouldn't imagine those low sellers expected to their $4.30 -4.40 a share - they were trying to get certainty that that tranche of their holding would absolutely sell in the closing match at the higher prevailing weighted close price. And then I'd imagine some had tranches of shares they were more relaxed about not moving placed at higher price points.
For most retail investors they don't need to participate in the closing match as the liquidity is there to sell at anytime in the lead up to inclusion, and indeed, sometimes at better prices as in the case of TRA/HLG (but not GTK). But I imagine that for traders who had purchased personally meaningful holdings, & were determined to sell into the closing match & wanted certainty it would transact in order limit to potential post inclusion weakness, might look to place sell orders at a lower level than they want or ultimately expect to achieve to ensure they are in overlap during the closing auction. They might not expect to get that price - but that's the risk they take when clicking the button. In theory it'll have an impact on the match price, but given the sheer volume and weight of the ETFs buying and large holders selling, might not move the dial much, but will depend on how comfortable they are with the quantum of shares needing to be purchased and what the depth is looking like.
Anyway, just some random thoughts, and in the spirit of discussion around special events like these index inclusions. Interested in other people's perspectives as each one of these is a new learning opportunity.Yes you are right. I had 2 sell orders in the box showing and knowing it would sell at a much higher price but wanted to make sure they would all sell all on close and not have half sold and the other half not sold as happened to me the day before.
winner69
17-12-2023, 09:58 AM
All the excitment and dismay of being included or kicked off an index really just shows how absurd the concept of market indices is
They fail on at least two counts. They represent little value to investors in terms of purpose, and also they do not represent the market.
And what does say being in the NZX50 do …Synlait for instance got included after it had ‘won’ but got kicked out when it became a loser. Essentially Synlait was a drag on the performance of the NZX50 …almost like by buying high selling low lol
alokdhir
18-12-2023, 08:13 AM
TRA today should trade weak ...looking for sub $ 4.30 sometime in this week ...
bull....
18-12-2023, 09:03 AM
TRA today should trade weak ...looking for sub $ 4.30 sometime in this week ...
yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.
anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.
yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.
anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.
A lot of cars TRA get they have to sell..
Margins may reduce thou i agree there.
However the good thing with TRA is they have the finance division which should show NIM growth over the coming years.
Overall modest eps and dps growth should continue imo
Baa_Baa
18-12-2023, 09:36 AM
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
In what way, how, was the CCD "boosting their margins"?
yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.
anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.
I would be concerned if all Turners seemed to be was a sales yard, but their whole business model is somewhat protected from a recession. They move too many cars to not pick up on the trend fast. If cars at a higher price point are not moving they will offer car owners less for their cars until things start selling. I agree price may move south in short term
bull....
18-12-2023, 10:09 AM
In what way, how, was the CCD "boosting their margins"?
CCD inhabited used car imports boosting prices of locally sourced stock. ie fatter margins almost straight away on all inventory on hand when it got introduced. With the cancellation used car imports should increase again boosting supply of cars on the market. ie 2CC and others CCd scheme was bad for them and good for turners.
CCD inhabited used car imports boosting prices of locally sourced stock. ie fatter margins almost straight away on all inventory on hand when it got introduced. With the cancellation used car imports should increase again boosting supply of cars on the market. ie 2CC and others CCd scheme was bad for them and good for turners.
you are right if you mean the opposite of what you typed
ronaldson
18-12-2023, 01:21 PM
incrementally subsiding now from Fridays close at $4.68. I predict $4.30 by the end of the week, and possibly sooner.
alokdhir
18-12-2023, 02:31 PM
Everyone has become smarter after the HLG experience ....No wonder it cud not break above $ 4.80 ...lol :p
But happy to note that WE are a bunch of fast learners ....we know how to read between the lines of Gurus ...as sometimes they hide their real messages
kiwikeith
18-12-2023, 03:44 PM
I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.
Perky
18-12-2023, 04:06 PM
That will be bloody TINA’s fault.
There Is No Adjustments
As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf
Not surprised to see this - Todd mentioned one of Grant's goals was the NZX50 entry - so no problem with him enjoying some of the spoils of that achievement. Still owns a big whack.
bull....
18-12-2023, 04:39 PM
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf
baker sold some eh . you were right muse. anyway he will get some good xmas turkey with that sale
alokdhir
18-12-2023, 04:42 PM
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf
Not surprised to see this - Todd mentioned one of Grant's goals was the NZX50 entry - so no problem with him enjoying some of the spoils of that achievement. Still owns a big whack.
Not very impressed as thats meaningful dilution of holding and show of poor confidence in future growth of SP ...sold as got opportunity to sell in numbers 450,000 ...wow
Not very impressed as thats meaningful dilution of holding and show of poor confidence in future growth of SP ...sold as got opportunity to sell in numbers 450,000 ...wow
was 7% of his shares
frame it a different way - he kept 93%
'twas inevitable we would start seeing these. if we had a magic wand we wouldn't, but that's investing, & take these as a suite of things.
alokdhir
18-12-2023, 04:56 PM
was 7% of his shares
frame it a different way - he kept 93%
'twas inevitable we would start seeing these. if we had a magic wand we wouldn't, but that's investing, & take these as a suite of things.
Compare that with MFT chairmans Bruce ...he almost adds to billion's worth he already has ...but then TRA is no MFT ...still a fine company no doubt ...he chooses to cash in rather then let his holdings grow !!
PS : Also he spoiled Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...I was looking forward to that ...lol
Compare that with MFT chairmans Bruce ...he almost adds to billion's worth he already has ...but then TRA is no MFT ...still a fine company no doubt ...he chooses to cash in rather then let his holdings grow !!
PS : Also he spoiled Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...I was looking forward to that ...lol
Well fingers crossed for ya that he buys the shares back for less than he just sold them in the weeks or months ahead. I’d expect there will be a fair bit of that going on lol
Re 5 bucks the pathway is there (I reckon) - just needs a bit of time and journey may not be linear.
percy
18-12-2023, 05:37 PM
Good on Grant.
Most probably added to his Ferrari collection.
Could turn out to be a better investment than Turners' shares.
winner69
18-12-2023, 05:44 PM
Funny day today
My Food Bag Director buys millions of shares last Friday and share price rockets up today
Turners Chairman sells a couple million bucks worth and share price sinks today
Good on Grant.
Most probably added to his Ferrari collection.
Could turn out to be a better investment than Turners' shares.
Better not turn up as a 2CC substantial holder… :)
percy
18-12-2023, 05:58 PM
Better not turn up as a 2CC substantial holder… :)
Yeah right.?
Just thinking of what Sharetrader/talk posters would have to say....
Basil Beagle would go right off his head [again].....
W69 and BlackPete are just warming up too.....
Think I would be the only person to welcome him at 2CC.Trouble is buying $2mil of 2cc shares would send their share price to over $2.00.
{mmmmmmmmmmNot a bad idea,I could forget Nissans and think of a Ferrari myself] Bring it on......lol
I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.
Disappointing. They could have done better than that. Salesman due for a kick in the proverbial for an attitude like that.
Snoopy
18-12-2023, 06:17 PM
I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.
Not too surprising. You have to consider the possibility of such vehicles catching the eye of Japanese people on holiday in New Zealand. If those tourists like the car they might just buy it from Turners and have it shipped back to Japan!
What is the link to the youtube video of which you speak BTW?
SNOOPY
Yeah right.?
Just thinking of what Sharetrader/talk posters would have to say....
Basil Beagle would go right off his head [again].....
W69 and BlackPete are just warming up too.....
Think I would be the only person to welcome him at 2CC.Trouble is buying $2mil of 2cc shares would send their share price to over $2.00.
{mmmmmmmmmmNot a bad idea,I could forget Nissans and think of a Ferrari myself] Bring it on......lol
You could think about a Ferrari if you wanted one Percy. Guy along the road has one...doesn't drive it much.
Snoopy
18-12-2023, 06:31 PM
You could think about a Ferrari if you wanted one Percy. Guy along the road has one...doesn't drive it much.
As Percy has previously explained, his problem isn't owning a Ferrari. His problem is looking like a gibbon when he gets out.
SNOOPY
percy
18-12-2023, 06:36 PM
As Percy has previously explained, his problem isn't owning a Ferrari. His problem is looking like a gibbon when he gets out.
SNOOPY
Yes Percy is here in his Ferrari.
Arrived 15 minutes ago.
However takes him half an hour to get out of it.
If he is not out in an hour we better dig him out.
As SNOOPY rightly pointed out getting into a Ferrari/Porsche is a bit of an issue,but getting out is near impossible..lol
kiwikeith
18-12-2023, 09:01 PM
Not too surprising. You have to consider the possibility of such vehicles catching the eye of Japanese people on holiday in New Zealand. If those tourists like the car they might just buy it from Turners and have it shipped back to Japan!
What is the link to the youtube video of which you speak BTW?
SNOOPY
Japanese to English for generation prius 2017 onwards (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJIqXJO5Cso&t=47s)
Yes Percy is here in his Ferrari.
Arrived 15 minutes ago.
However takes him half an hour to get out of it.
If he is not out in an hour we better dig him out.
As SNOOPY rightly pointed out getting into a Ferrari/Porsche is a bit of an issue,but getting out is near impossible..lol
I didn't think you looked too bad exiting that Lambo you test drove
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h6udr_7eg4I
Might have to stick with the Lambo...license plate: PERCY$
percy
18-12-2023, 10:01 PM
I didn't think you looked too bad exiting that Lambo you test drove
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h6udr_7eg4I
Might have to stick with the Lambo...license plate: PERCY$
That was only after a 5 minute test drive.
The challenge is getting out after a three hour drive.
After crawling on all fours standing up is near impossible.
What a great clip..Worth a hundred words.
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 07:50 AM
Checked GTK for SSH but none so far ...so no insider selling there ( so far ) ...maybe the reason for bigger POP there !!!
TRA is touted as a strong yield stock at super attractive metrics with future growth in yield and SP ...if thats not enough to stay invested then hardly confidence inspiring ...
My trading range estimates for next few months $ 4 -$ 4.30 !!!
bull....
19-12-2023, 09:19 AM
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423747/409853.pdfmore director selling.
these guys smart they know they have to sell some into index funds at overpriced stock value.
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 09:39 AM
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423747/409853.pdfmore director selling.
these guys smart they know they have to sell some into index funds at overpriced stock value.
Reinforces my view that it will underperform next year !! May look at it again around $ 4 level if possible ...
These guys are selling very small portions. In this case 4%
I wouldnt read too much into it.
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 09:51 AM
These guys are selling very small portions. In this case 4%
I wouldnt read too much into it.
Depends upon your perspective and bias ...like I said if they think cashing out at $ 4.68 is prudent to earning 8% gross etc etc then maybe they are right that at that time it was right time to unload ...Yes like Muse said they may plan to come back when its more opportune ...ie they expect to get that chance then why not US think that way too ...get out and try to come back when the time is more opportune ...like more knowledgeable people doing ...surely they know better then US or maybe only me ...:D
PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks
bull....
19-12-2023, 09:56 AM
stock overvalued based on coming slowdown in used car sales
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 09:57 AM
stock overvalued based on coming slowdown in used car sales
So what is good buy price in your view ?
Depends upon your perspective and bias ...like I said if they think cashing out at $ 4.68 is prudent to earning 8% gross etc etc then maybe they are right that at that time it was right time to unload ...Yes like Muse said they may plan to come back when its more opportune ...ie they expect to get that chance then why not US think that way too ...get out and try to come back when the time is more opportune ...like more knowledgeable people doing ...surely they know better then US or maybe only me ...:D
PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks
Think its different for them as a large % of their net worth will be in TRA. Vs us bugger all. So if they are taking some funds off the table to invest elsewhere and diversify or buy a new house or whatever then no worries in my book.
Snoopy
19-12-2023, 10:02 AM
PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks
You could always go for a second grade celebration. Squeeze a lifebuoy over your beer belly, and just jump off the wharf holding a can of "V" ;-P
SNOOPY
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 10:04 AM
In W69 book and mind ...right strategy was SELL all TRA and BUY BRM ....lol ...but he never gives his true mind or thoughts ...U need to second guess it ...I think I have made my guess ...:p
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 10:05 AM
You could always go for a second grade celebration. Squeeze a lifebuoy over your beer belly, and just jump off the wharf holding a can of "V" ;-P
SNOOPY
Mr B wont be happy with that suggestion but I see the humour in it ...:p
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 10:29 AM
Feeble attempt to keep SP above $ 4.50 seems to have run out of ammunition ...irrespective 6 Cents divvy coming for buyers next month !!
$ 4.30 is reasonable qty buyer and then $ 4 has a big qty buyer ...who can that be ??
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 10:37 AM
Any new investment in NZG / FNZ / MDZ will surely will be new investment in TRA now onwards ....superlife default KiwiSaver has big allocation to NZG ...new contributions to their KiwiSaver funds will be continuous source of buyers in TRA now onwards ...so almost sure demand only if supply is not from INSIDERS trying to buy new models of Ferrari ...:confused:
bull....
19-12-2023, 10:38 AM
So what is good buy price in your view ?
a comparison is some of there like companies in aus and us . what they are valued at. anyway like i say before if price went from 3.50 to 4.68 on index inclusion momentum how much of that is justified on profit upgrade. your price reasonable
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 10:39 AM
a comparison is some of there like companies in aus and us . what they are valued at. anyway like i say before if price went from 3.50 to 4.68 on index inclusion momentum how much of that is justified on profit upgrade. your price reasonable
Be candid ...state a number where U will be buyer again mate
percy
19-12-2023, 10:47 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/423747
Matthew becoming a Ferrari owner too.?
ronaldson
19-12-2023, 11:00 AM
Feeble attempt to keep SP above $ 4.50 seems to have run out of ammunition ...irrespective 6 Cents divvy coming for buyers next month !!
$ 4.30 is reasonable qty buyer and then $ 4 has a big qty buyer ...who can that be ??
Buyer currently at $4.30 is me under a couple of hats, retrieving shares sold last week at $4.75. The record date for the quarterly dividend is 9 January so should catch that under DRIP in due course if I fill early.
Grant clearly could have sold more, and it doesn't seem other insiders were moved to exit all or part of their holdings on the bubble. Yield is good at that price, and underlying prospects for growth are still reasonable, so I am dipping a toe in the water again. Entries with any listed holding are always a bit fraught but I am willing to be proved wrong.
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 12:31 PM
Buyer currently at $4.30 is me under a couple of hats, retrieving shares sold last week at $4.75. The record date for the quarterly dividend is 9 January so should catch that under DRIP in due course if I fill early.
Grant clearly could have sold more, and it doesn't seem other insiders were moved to exit all or part of their holdings on the bubble. Yield is good at that price, and underlying prospects for growth are still reasonable, so I am dipping a toe in the water again. Entries with any listed holding are always a bit fraught but I am willing to be proved wrong.
The way things going U will be fed very soon ...maybe before weekend mate !!
ronaldson
19-12-2023, 01:24 PM
The way things going U will be fed very soon ...maybe before weekend mate !!
Possibly, but it will likely take a bit of time considering anyone and their dog could have taken $4.68 at close on friday, and even marginally more earlier in that week.
I could have been more pessimistic but then you may miss out on a fill altogether. This share is historically a steady performer so I will sleep at night regardless.
Really, the market is now waiting for someone to say where the new floor price is and I am expressing my view.
alokdhir
19-12-2023, 01:40 PM
Possibly, but it will likely take a bit of time considering anyone and their dog could have taken $4.68 at close on friday, and even marginally more earlier in that week.
I could have been more pessimistic but then you may miss out on a fill altogether. This share is historically a steady performer so I will sleep at night regardless.
Really, the market is now waiting for someone to say where the new floor price is and I am expressing my view.
Your floor is $ 4.30 ...my upper range of next few months / possibly more is $ 4.30 ...no doubt it has many admirers for its steady yield etc ...so did HLG ...If what Bull says materialises that their business also comes under stress like HLG then this can easily go back to breakout point of $ 3.80 ...very possible ...though I reckon after seeing bad market reaction to insiders selling in the pop ...very soon they will try to talk it up
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/423747
Matthew becoming a Ferrari owner too.?
Old Matt building a new deck?
To change the subject away from the rather tiresome ball by ball analysis has anyone tried Mevo?
How does it compare to a Turners subscription? Is it a reliable enough replacement for owning a second hand car?
Perky
19-12-2023, 02:48 PM
Yeah I’ve used Mevo…works for me as I live inside their free parking drop off area in central Auckland.
Pretty good value $22 to $30 hr for electric car Tesla, polestar Bydd etc. Insurance excess similar to a rental. What makes it good value is it’s free to park in most places in the city…anyone been to a Wilson car park will see how car hire + free parking in central city is value.
Can take a car after 6pm and only pay for 2hrs but hold overnight..up to 200km limit.
I read they are crowdfunding to expand and not yet profitable
I would drive their cars but not own their shares lol
You can see on app where all the cars are…on Saturday I wanted a car but about 10 of them sitting at akld airport. You can do single 1 way to airport and pay drop off fee.
If 4 or 5 people travelling probably see why this is popular .
was article free on milford website from BusinessDesk but probably paywalled now.
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/mevo-on-track-for-4-million-capital-raise
Havent looked at car subscription so can’t comment but seems like a good idea when you need a car for a set time ie 1 month. Pretty common overeseas but nz mentality is just to own cars…this might change I think overtime and as younger generation who used to subscribing for all sorts of **** start getting to driving age.
Just my thoughts JAA
stoploss
19-12-2023, 03:36 PM
To change the subject away from the rather tiresome ball by ball analysis has anyone tried Mevo?
How does it compare to a Turners subscription? Is it a reliable enough replacement for owning a second hand car?
$ 150 for a TSLA for 24 hours. Great if you want to have a decent test drive in a car .....
bull....
20-12-2023, 07:20 AM
• Following a month-on-month deterioration in October 2023, thenumber of auto loan accounts in arrears recommenced a generalupward trend that has emerged since the pandemic. As at October2023, auto loan accounts in arrears are 251% higher than October 2019 (i.e.,the pre-pandemic equivalent). Year-over-year, the number of accounts inarrears are 35.0% higher than October 2022. :scared:
hope tra not affected too much
equifax data dec update
• Following a month-on-month deterioration in October 2023, thenumber of auto loan accounts in arrears recommenced a generalupward trend that has emerged since the pandemic. As at October2023, auto loan accounts in arrears are 251% higher than October 2019 (i.e.,the pre-pandemic equivalent). Year-over-year, the number of accounts inarrears are 35.0% higher than October 2022. :scared:
hope tra not affected too much
equifax data dec update
Increase off record lows? Or now at record highs? These percentages are meaningless unless some more context is provided around where the arrears sit in the long term avg
bull....
20-12-2023, 07:32 AM
Increase off record lows? Or now at record highs? These percentages are meaningless unless some more context is provided around where the arrears sit in the long term avg
Month-over-month for October 2023, the number of auto loan accounts inarrears have increased by +11.2%. A significant increase in the number ofaccounts in early stage arrears (1-29 DPD) was observed, up +25.1% monthover-month, somewhat offset by a -9.2% reduction in 30-59DPD arrears.
just a reflection of the cost of living crisis underway. so i guess its up on the base level which existed before the crisis satrted
Auto loans arrears rates historically creep up during the Christmas period. People buy hams and presents instead of making their car payments I guess.
Arrears will be going up for all asset funders but off a low base. Definitely tough times for a lot out there including SMEs
percy
20-12-2023, 11:10 AM
Hybrid cars in Japan on track to exceed half of all sales.
Canada confirms all new vehicles sold in 2035 must be electric
ronaldson
21-12-2023, 05:05 PM
Still single buyers at the close in the low $4.50's despite an absence of depth support under that figure. Takes time after the Index inclusion flurry for market pricing to rebalance.
"Patience" is the word just now for former holders like me desiring to reenter.
bull....
22-12-2023, 08:39 AM
Still single buyers at the close in the low $4.50's despite an absence of depth support under that figure. Takes time after the Index inclusion flurry for market pricing to rebalance.
"Patience" is the word just now for former holders like me desiring to reenter.
i have witnessed that buyer come in at the end of each day to push price up on close too.
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 08:49 AM
i have witnessed that buyer come in at the end of each day to push price up on close too.
He has done it twice so far ...big order to mop all till 4.53 and next day 4.54 ...maybe trying to infuse confidence in buyers waiting to get it
winner69
22-12-2023, 08:58 AM
He has done it twice so far ...big order to mop all till 4.53 and next day 4.54 ...maybe trying to infuse confidence in buyers waiting to get it
Hope he realises today has an early close lol I
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 09:00 AM
Hope he realises today has an early close lol I
Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb
PS : Also I dont expect it to be anyone's Picks for next year ...not from these levels so your dream of that mayn't materialise buddy
winner69
22-12-2023, 09:03 AM
Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb
A couple of inclusions in Brokers Tips will fix that
Watch Herald this weekend
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 09:11 AM
A couple of inclusions in Brokers Tips will fix that
Watch Herald this weekend
I will ...and I think I wont find TRA there ...MFT / SUM maybe ...but u never know ...maybe can choose it as steady yield stock not money spinner
winner69
22-12-2023, 09:23 AM
Bugger TRA not in NBR hot stocks for 2024
Tina not seduced them …sack her immediately
mike2020
22-12-2023, 09:26 AM
HGH got a pick! Maybe they see it so low by the beginning of next year it can only go up!
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 10:09 AM
Bugger TRA not in NBR hot stocks for 2024
Tina not seduced them …sack her immediately
Told u so mate ...but U pay more attention to other channel mates ...lol :p
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 10:10 AM
HGH got a pick! Maybe they see it so low by the beginning of next year it can only go up!
Cud be the reason ...as how it ends matter ...but start also count for reference
See how many KFL stocks are on horizon for stupendous 2024 ...that shud make KFL my top pick for 2024 ...10% discount shud vanish by year end ...so extra help .
Antipodean
22-12-2023, 10:13 AM
I will ...and I think I wont find TRA there ...MFT / SUM maybe ...but u never know ...maybe can choose it as steady yield stock not money spinner
~7% gross div and about the same in cap growth (~4.85 from here) would be far better outcome that most of the broker picks averages, might pay for them to pay attention here heh.
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 10:17 AM
~7% gross div and about the same in cap growth (~4.85 from here) would be far better outcome that most of the broker picks averages, might pay for them to pay attention here heh.
Agree with your thoughts ...better than putting GNE / CEN type yield safety now ....but MFT can go to $ 100 in a year ...so can SUM can go to $ 14 + ...that will easily beat 7+5 = 12% u talking about ...thats why they chose MFT a lot
see weed
22-12-2023, 10:50 AM
Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb
PS : Also I dont expect it to be anyone's Picks for next year ...not from these levels so your dream of that mayn't materialise buddy
Comparing two completely differently companies and there dividends. TRA and HLG my favourite 2 companies at the moment. TRA will pay 2 divs to the value of approx 13c total for Jan and April. HLG will pay one div in April of approx 20c to 24c. So 10,000 shares in HLG at $5.50c will cost me $55,000 and a div of approx $2,000 to $2,400. But if I put that $55,000 into TRA shares at $4.50c will get me 12,223 shares and divs to the value of $1589. Just a passing thought.
alokdhir
22-12-2023, 10:57 AM
Comparing two completely differently companies and there dividends. TRA and HLG my favourite 2 companies at the moment. TRA will pay 2 divs to the value of approx 13c total for Jan and April. HLG will pay one div in April of approx 20c to 24c. So 10,000 shares in HLG at $5.50c will cost me $55,000 and a div of approx $2,000 to $2,400. But if I put that $55,000 into TRA shares at $4.50c will get me 12,223 shares and divs to the value of $1589. Just a passing thought.
Only catch maybe HLG pays 15 cents ...but I got your point that HLG scores for u ...but always keep in mind HLG is going thru tough times and TRA is going thru good times ...on philosophical note ...bad changes to good and good can become bad ...so HLG u pick I reckon
see weed
22-12-2023, 11:50 AM
Only catch maybe HLG pays 15 cents ...but I got your point that HLG scores for u ...but always keep in mind HLG is going thru tough times and TRA is going thru good times ...on philosophical note ...bad changes to good and good can become bad ...so HLG u pick I reckon
Actually, might do both, jump into TRA grab the Jan div and wait to see the HLG Feb. update on the busy Christmas period.;)
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-wants-used-evs-050011036.html
For those interested.
ronaldson
28-12-2023, 09:15 AM
Not many wanting to capitulate with this stock despite the index entry "bubble" now being in the rear view mirror.
I may be fishing too deep at $4.30 to achieve a reentry currently, at least until TRA goes ex dividend early in January.
Antipodean
28-12-2023, 11:29 AM
Could be all those timing the market on this one are out, and those who favour time in the market are now in and looking forward to next year.
percy
29-12-2023, 08:08 AM
The land at Worsleys Road,Cashmere Hills owned by Turners' Oxford Finance Ltd has been sold to CDL Land [a CDL company]
for $5.53 mil.
The land is likely to be divided into 60 sections.
winner69
29-12-2023, 08:42 AM
The land at Worsleys Road,Cashmere Hills owned by Turners' Oxford Finance Ltd has been sold to CDL Land [a CDL company]
for $5.53 mil.
The land is likely to be divided into 60 sections.
Good finally sold …now use cash to build real things ….and put more Tina ads on the telly
percy
04-01-2024, 09:01 AM
I have recently been to two motor sport movies.
Jackie Stewart .
Ferrari.
Both were excellent.
winner69
04-01-2024, 09:04 AM
I have recently been to two motor sport movies.
Jackie Stewart .
Ferrari.
Both were excellent.
That Jackie Stewart film was really cool eh Percy
Must seek out the Ferrari one
percy
04-01-2024, 09:16 AM
That Jackie Stewart film was really cool eh Percy
Must seek out the Ferrari one
Yes the Ferrari movie is a must see.
Google Alfonso de Portago.
You may also enjoy this behind the scenes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuH7G4N-dYU&pp=ygUNZmVycmFyaSBtb3ZpZQ%3D%3D
I have ordered the book "Ferrari the man and the machine" by Brock Yates from Amazon.Just over $30.
Sideshow Bob
15-01-2024, 12:22 PM
DRP strike price at $4.44.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/424774
Sideshow Bob
12-02-2024, 08:34 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/425976 :cool:
Turners upgrades FY24 profit guidance for its fourth consecutive record result
Turners Automotive Group Limited (NZX/ASX: TRA) announces today an upgrade to its FY24 guidance to a net profit before tax of at least NZ$48m, ahead of the NZ$45.5m achieved in FY23. Now an NZX top 50 company, this will be Turners’ fourth consecutive record profit result.
With more certainty around the full year result the forecast dividend has been increased to NZ25 cents per share (+9% YoY), up from prior guidance of NZ24cps. Turners is approaching a decade of sustainable dividend growth, with an 11% compound annual dividend growth rate since FY15.
The 3Q24 dividend will be paid in late March 2024 with the final dividend for FY24 to be paid in late July 2024. Dividends will be fully imputed and the Directors expect that the Turners’ Dividend Reinvestment Plan (DRP) will continue to apply to both these dividends.
The NZ used car market and the Turners' business continue to demonstrate strong resilience despite a broader economy under pressure. Meanwhile, stabilisation in the official cash rate (OCR) is turning from a headwind into a tailwind for the Finance business.
More detail on Turners’ individual business segments can be found on the following page.
The company will report its full year results in late May. More detail on individual segments can be found on the following page.
percy
12-02-2024, 08:39 AM
An excellent profit upgrade.
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/425976/412324.pdf
Gerard
12-02-2024, 08:41 AM
Wonder if this is a change of dividend date (announcement says late March), verses last year when the 3rd qtr dividend was paid late April.
that's great and am relieved to see them navigating the clean car regulatory turbulence at the end of last year so well.
winner69
12-02-2024, 09:20 AM
First half NPBT up 10% but in spite of ‘head winds turning into tail winds’ and NIM getting better second half NPBT is only going to be about the same as last year. If they had done another 10% on H223 this year then NPBT would have been $50m
Oh well, Todd can still dine out on his $50m target a bit longer and let his raves keep punters excited
I'm a bit underwhelmed .suppose another cent on the dividend will keep me happy
Sideshow Bob
12-02-2024, 10:13 AM
Market likes it though Winner.
Up 3.1% already.
Although 2CC up 4.9%.......;)
ronaldson
12-02-2024, 10:39 AM
Wonder if this is a change of dividend date (announcement says late March), verses last year when the 3rd qtr dividend was paid late April.
This will be to ensure the third quarter dividend is paid in the current tax year where the rate for Trusts is 33c in the $ compared to the 39c in the $ intended to be applied from 1 April 2024, given major shareholders ( who also have Board representation ) are holders via such structures.
First half NPBT up 10% but in spite of ‘head winds turning into tail winds’ and NIM getting better second half NPBT is only going to be about the same as last year. If they had done another 10% on H223 this year then NPBT would have been $50m
Oh well, Todd can still dine out on his $50m target a bit longer and let his raves keep punters excited
I'm a bit underwhelmed .suppose another cent on the dividend will keep me happy
Its pretty good in tough times, Winner
Its not like it priced for huge % gains in earnings
The NZD/JPY cross rate keeps inching higher and higher - at historic highs. Will be a boost to those 2nd hand dealers importing stock ex japan.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recidivist-burglar-stole-every-car-key-on-turners-lot-spree-costs-nearly-500k/5REV5OZS3NFVJNHYLYMJCDSJNA/
Grimy
18-02-2024, 05:55 PM
Not paywalled now.
Antipodean
19-02-2024, 09:14 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recidivist-burglar-stole-every-car-key-on-turners-lot-spree-costs-nearly-500k/5REV5OZS3NFVJNHYLYMJCDSJNA/
November 5-6, 2022
November 5-6, 2022
Yeah it happened ages ago. I just saw the news article yesterday for the 1st time. It shows our system is too soft on criminals.
Jonette
26-02-2024, 03:51 PM
there was a trade at 2pm of over 200,000 shares at $4.70. Interesting timing, who?
percy
26-02-2024, 04:07 PM
Maybe retiring director Martin Berry selling part of his 500,000 holding.?
Antipodean
02-03-2024, 12:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwafupoVq6A
percy
02-03-2024, 12:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwafupoVq6A
Excellent ....................
Thanks for the link.
Sideshow Bob
04-03-2024, 08:57 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/427305
Turners Q3 Dividend Declared
Turners Automotive Group (NZX/ASX: TRA) is pleased to announce that directors have declared a Q3 FY24 dividend of 6 cents per share (fully imputed) to be paid on 27 March 2024. The record date is 12 March 2024.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/427305
Turners Q3 Dividend Declared
Turners Automotive Group (NZX/ASX: TRA) is pleased to announce that directors have declared a Q3 FY24 dividend of 6 cents per share (fully imputed) to be paid on 27 March 2024. The record date is 12 March 2024.
Great they are paying out in March instead of April. Helps those holding in a Trust.
mike2020
04-03-2024, 10:03 AM
Oddly 4700x0.08=37.6 or exactly 8% at 4x6 cents plus supp and imput. Possibility of better than that in Divis too. 8% plus has been my criteria for divs for a while now.
pierre
12-03-2024, 10:29 AM
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/03/12/the-story-behind-tina-from-turners-and-why-the-ad-works/
winner69
12-03-2024, 03:14 PM
Turners monthly market report says dealer to Public sales in February were more than 3% up on last year ...improvement on the 1.5% reported for January
Add on market share gains things must be going well at Turners
Certainty now that $50m npbt will be achieved in F24
Looking forward to profit upgrade just after Easter
Share price well over 5 bucks in April
Antipodean
12-03-2024, 03:38 PM
$50m NPAT at current SP $4.70 is a P/E 8.28.
8% gross divvies on top.
Some say it is hard to find good value in NZX, others just know where to look.
pierre
12-03-2024, 03:58 PM
I hope "Tina" is receiving some commission for the tremendous contribution she is making to Turners' results.
winner69
12-03-2024, 04:00 PM
$50m NPAT at current SP $4.70 is a P/E 8.28.
8% gross divvies on top.
Some say it is hard to find good value in NZX, others just know where to look.
My bad Antipodean …it’s $50m npbt ….say $35m after tax
PE still 11/12 …great divie ….bright future
And exceptional value even at $4.70
Snoopy
27-03-2024, 02:32 PM
I believe that Alaistair Petrie is the merely the NZ representative of the Ecuadorian Alvaro Noboa family, the people behind Bonita bananas. If you look at the biography of Alvaro Noboa.
https://www.alvaronoboa.com/en/biography/
it still says he has interests in New Zealand. Bartel Holdings was a significant shareholder in the old 'Turners Auctions' company, which when taken over by Dorchester, became the Turners business we know today. I know some of the public shareholding information says that Alaistair Petrie is the 100% shareholder of Bartel.
https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/522612/shareholdings
But I think that is only in the sense that Petrie is the local nominee of the Alvaro Noboa family. Petrie took over this job from Michael Dossor who died in 2016. I don't recall any information on the Ecuadorians selling out since then. And being a shareholder from the Turners Auction days, I think I would remember if it had happened.
Interesting update on significant shareholder Bartel Holdings today
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/428683/415472.pdf
At first glance it is just updating the shareholding with shares reinvested via the DRP. But look a bit closer:
"On 16 June 2023, Bartel Holdings, through an off market acquisition, purchased 470,000 shares for $1,630,900."
I wonder if they bought those shares from one of the directors selling down?
SNOOPY
Snow Leopard
27-03-2024, 03:19 PM
....I wonder if they bought those shares from one of the directors selling down?
SNOOPY
Why wonder when you can look it up?
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/413212/396656.pdf
Snoopy
27-03-2024, 04:19 PM
Why wonder when you can look it up?
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/413212/396656.pdf
Ah so it was a Paul Byrnes (former director) and Mary Mora (other shareholder) sell down. Thanks for that.
SNOOPY
daveypnz
17-04-2024, 05:02 PM
Down on big volume. Any news?
SCOTTY
17-04-2024, 05:46 PM
Down on big volume. Any news?
I sold some at 4.60/4.62 to fund my HGH rights purchase. Feel that the 5 dividend payments during the financial year ended 31st March has distorted (overstated) the yield going forward.
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/429950/417179.pdf
Must be a decent sized deck.
Sideshow Bob
23-04-2024, 10:10 AM
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/429950/417179.pdf
Must be a decent sized deck.
He's no longer a director - https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426763
He's no longer a director - https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426763
No, but even so....must be a big deck !
alokdhir
23-04-2024, 11:38 AM
If old director decides to sell all his holding in a " good long term yield paying " company ...should I be worried ?
Maybe nothing more to it then he just wanted out or needed cash or wanted his funds out of NZ !!!
Doesn't look good but doesn't make TRA less of a company for maybe longer term then his horizon
No, but even so....must be a big deck !
That’s what she said
I can see this doing a big bounce at some stage. During a recession people still need a car. New sales are slowing dramatically as are cars sales. How do small car dealers get extra cashflow when they need it. They send a car to Turners
bull....
02-05-2024, 02:13 PM
stock overvalued based on coming slowdown in used car sales
share price acting accordingly
percy
02-05-2024, 03:38 PM
From Autotalk.
Despite the challenges of fewer selling days due to public holidays and school breaks, the surge in registrations of imported used passenger vehicles by 10% in April 2024, reaching 8731 units, is a significant trend to note.
This figure marks a notable increase from the 7939 units registered in April 2023.
Positive for TRA and 2CC.
Sideshow Bob
02-05-2024, 03:57 PM
From Autotalk.
Despite the challenges of fewer selling days due to public holidays and school breaks, the surge in registrations of imported used passenger vehicles by 10% in April 2024, reaching 8731 units, is a significant trend to note.
This figure marks a notable increase from the 7939 units registered in April 2023.
Positive for TRA and 2CC.
Thanks Percy.
Would be interesting to know relative market shares. Would think TRA at least holding their own....beep beep
percy
02-05-2024, 04:01 PM
Thanks Percy.
Would be interesting to know relative market shares. Would think TRA at least holding their own....beep beep
The way Turners trade I would expect they are still gaining market share.
From Autotalk.
Despite the challenges of fewer selling days due to public holidays and school breaks, the surge in registrations of imported used passenger vehicles by 10% in April 2024, reaching 8731 units, is a significant trend to note.
This figure marks a notable increase from the 7939 units registered in April 2023.
Positive for TRA and 2CC.
I thought most of Turners sales were drawn from NZ stock....not imported ?
percy
02-05-2024, 04:17 PM
I thought most of Turners sales were drawn from NZ stock....not imported ?
Correct,therefore it must be 2CC selling all the extra used imports.?
ronaldson
02-05-2024, 05:15 PM
I haven't returned to this stock following divesting in conjunction with the index inclusion. Still watching to try to understand an appropriate price point.
Agree with the post (#8393) on the previous page that the yield displayed (by Jarden anyway) is overstated for reason outlined.
The way Turners trade I would expect they are still gaining market share.
Hence why I can see a bounce coming at some stage. I feel people are starting to undervalue TRA.
bull....
07-05-2024, 12:57 PM
The way Turners trade I would expect they are still gaining market share.
yep you can gain market share even in a slowdown
percy
07-05-2024, 01:11 PM
yep you can gain market share even in a slowdown
"When the going gets tough, the tough get going "
"When the going gets tough, the tough get going "
A bigger local dealership has closed down in the Bay. The times are tough and a local guy who manages a dealership already said 2024 was going to be a tough year for all people in car sales. In these sorts of moments Turners can benefit, as most cars left behind may go through them.
https://cdn.hbapp.co.nz/news/news/liquidators-report-shows-eurocity-owes-creditors-close-to-12m
daveypnz
08-05-2024, 01:44 PM
Share price is in freefall now
percy
08-05-2024, 03:22 PM
Recently ex director Martin Berry sold most,or all of his holding.
Also the recent death of a ChCh investor has seen his holding in 2CC sold.He also had a large TRA holding,which I expect has also been sold.
Share price is in freefall now
The bounce will happen it’s just when
Ricky-bobby
09-05-2024, 03:30 PM
Going to drift back down to $3.60ish I recon… low liquidity and demand weighing on the share price. A lot of shares are in the same spot…
bull....
09-05-2024, 04:23 PM
Going to drift back down to $3.60ish I recon… low liquidity and demand weighing on the share price. A lot of shares are in the same spot…
something smells , lots of volume on offer
winner69
09-05-2024, 04:27 PM
something smells , lots of volume on offer
Percy says a big shareholder died recently …and estate May be selling
bull....
09-05-2024, 04:37 PM
Percy says a big shareholder died recently …and estate May be selling
are they in the top 20 , if so that could mean 500k - 5 mil too sell ?
percy
09-05-2024, 04:43 PM
are they in the top 20 , if so that could mean 500k - 5 mil too sell ?
No he was just out side the top 20.Although he often held shares in his own name,plus two finance companies he owned.
Therefore he could have had three holdings each of just under 400,000.
Also ex director Martin Berry has sold all or most of his holding.500,000.
sashadidi
12-05-2024, 06:45 PM
Things are a bit tough for turners (and I am sure other car dealers)if you read this memo
15102
Louloubell
12-05-2024, 07:07 PM
Am I missing something? Please explain how this memo shows things are a bit tough
kiwical
12-05-2024, 08:58 PM
That's the most confusing memo ever. BUY BUY BUY "All vehicles under $30k" then "don't buy" (insert a large list of vehicles that would be under $30k). Anyway the memo is 3 months out of date. Why don't you post the current one sashadidi if you have access to it?
alokdhir
13-05-2024, 06:48 AM
something smells , lots of volume on offer
If u are a big investor having holdings of appx 1.2 mil as per Percy estimates then u will have some rapport with management also ...with results coming in few days which are suppose to create upwards momentum if going by past experiences and already announced profit upgrade ...then I feel selling in low liquidity super low sentiment is very ill advised move ...UNLESS they are hurrying up to get out before results announcement ...very confusing . Hopefully there is nothing bad in the results to eventually justify this move/selling
mike2020
13-05-2024, 09:03 AM
Ive been looking for a new towing vehicle and I have found no bargains at Turners. I would say above market price for the type of truck I want. Plus buyers fees. Make of that what you want but it does not appear the actions of a desperate seller.
bull....
13-05-2024, 09:12 AM
Things are a bit tough for turners (and I am sure other car dealers)if you read this memo
15102
Im not sure to believe this is real without seeing letterheads etc , but anyway looks like prudent inventory management in current climate. Turners management have also stated previously there model is to shift focus in inventory to where demand is.
bull....
13-05-2024, 09:15 AM
If u are a big investor having holdings of appx 1.2 mil as per Percy estimates then u will have some rapport with management also ...with results coming in few days which are suppose to create upwards momentum if going by past experiences and already announced profit upgrade ...then I feel selling in low liquidity super low sentiment is very ill advised move ...UNLESS they are hurrying up to get out before results announcement ...very confusing . Hopefully there is nothing bad in the results to eventually justify this move/selling
turners did upgrade in feb for full yr. I be watching the outlook statement in results to see if they say anything about softening demand.
percy
13-05-2024, 09:21 AM
turners did upgrade in feb for full yr. I be watching the outlook statement in results to see if they say anything about softening demand.
Well there usually is a slow down at this time of year.
Rental companies reduce their stock holdings as well.
I would expect Oxford Finance's NIM improving and Credit Corp attracting more business.
Louloubell
13-05-2024, 10:17 AM
For what it is worth, I think TRA is good buying at this price and I have doubled my holdings.
For what it is worth, I think TRA is good buying at this price and I have doubled my holdings.
Very good buying for the longterm
Im not sure to believe this is real without seeing letterheads etc , but anyway looks like prudent inventory management in current climate.
The bold part was also my interpretation - I don't see any issues with that document, assuming it is real. It also gives a bit of insight into what NOT to buy as a consumer e.g. Mazda diesel, Kona 2L, Dodge over 80k & Jeeps etc.
alokdhir
14-05-2024, 11:11 AM
TRA now continuously trading below key support of $ 4 ...making me nervous ...hopefully it will turn around sooner then 21st May !!!
Lack of commentary here on this SP downtrend makes me feel all is going to be good and its worth adding here then getting worried ...still more thoughts about why SP came below $ 4 will be comforting ....
billkiapi
14-05-2024, 11:21 AM
For what it is worth, I think TRA is good buying at this price and I have doubled my holdings.
agreed, this is a well run company imo, and good for long term value.
TRA now continuously trading below key support of $ 4 ...making me nervous ...hopefully it will turn around sooner then 21st May !!!
Lack of commentary here on this SP downtrend makes me feel all is going to be good and its worth adding here then getting worried ...still more thoughts about why SP came below $ 4 will be comforting ....
Hey I am not concerned yet, as the current team at Turners have never let us down so far. I expect to hear that things are tough right now and that car sales have slowed a little above $25,000 and we might see an increase in people not able to pay their cars off, but car sales of the below $25,000 are what they prefer trading in. I believe we will see an increase in market share and a positive longterm outlook. 2025 will see the share price of loads of good NZX stocks increase to their higher value.
bull....
14-05-2024, 05:56 PM
TRA now continuously trading below key support of $ 4 ...making me nervous ...hopefully it will turn around sooner then 21st May !!!
Lack of commentary here on this SP downtrend makes me feel all is going to be good and its worth adding here then getting worried ...still more thoughts about why SP came below $ 4 will be comforting ....
yep not much buying support at these prices for the sell down. insto's must see value at lower price ?
kiwical
14-05-2024, 06:48 PM
This is a semi newbie question, but are there recognised issues with buying competing companies? I own some 2CC but have resisted TRA so far. Mainly because I have 2CC. Vaguely because of diversification issues, but I also think it might be silly to hook into 2 companies that are to a greater or lesser extent competing with each other. Or should I forget all that and just buy a stock if I see value in it?
Snoopy
14-05-2024, 08:55 PM
This is a semi newbie question, but are there recognised issues with buying competing companies? I own some 2CC but have resisted TRA so far. Mainly because I have 2CC. Vaguely because of diversification issues, but I also think it might be silly to hook into 2 companies that are to a greater or lesser extent competing with each other.
When I buy a share, I actively look for a 'competitor' in that same industry that I can buy into as well. Why? Because it stops me getting 'tunnel visioned' and believing my favourite company's press releases, without any other context. Turners Automotive Group may come across as a 'car company'. But it is actually a finance company (the old Dorchester Pacific) that happens to sell (quite) a few cars. 2 Cheap Cars, as I understand it, have got out of the finance business. So TRA and 2CC probably don't overlap as much as you think.
For the record I own TRA shares myself, as well as shares in another 'competitor' finance company called Heartland Group Holdings.
SNOOPY
alokdhir
15-05-2024, 12:33 PM
yep not much buying support at these prices for the sell down. insto's must see value at lower price ?
Selling is relentless ...makes me wonder seller knows something which we will know soon ...rerated down 20% in last month or so !!!
bull....
15-05-2024, 02:14 PM
Selling is relentless ...makes me wonder seller knows something which we will know soon ...rerated down 20% in last month or so !!!
we will find out fore sure shortly if there was something smelly under the bonnet
alokdhir
16-05-2024, 07:57 AM
we will find out fore sure shortly if there was something smelly under the bonnet
Today it shud recover or at least stabilise ...if not then something surely cooking which we may not like on 21st May !!
toddhunter
16-05-2024, 03:51 PM
Things are a bit tough for turners (and I am sure other car dealers)if you read this memo
15102
Hi everyone time for me to step in again.
Not sure how this image was taken, probably not worth digging into that. This is basically a buyers guide for our car buyers and steers them on the cars to avoid (known mechanical issues...we get this data from our insurance business Autosure + experience) and who they need to get approval from internally to buy cars. Your comments are completely off the mark sashadidi. It doesn't signal anything about how tough or otherwise it is for Turners. What is does signal is that demand is shifting down the price point curve and moderating above for more expensive cars ($20k and above). Unsurprisingly used cars remain resilient but consumers have less to spend...it isn't rocket science and something we have been talking about for 18 months now. This internal document simply helps ensure we source cars where the demand in the market is and avoids the known problem cars...and we are doing this quite successfully as well.
As at the end of March the value of our inventory was down but stock units up. Mar-24 3,465 units @ average price of $7,200 (FY23 3,021 units @ average price of $8,600).
bulltrap
16-05-2024, 04:31 PM
Not sure how this image was taken, probably not worth digging into that. ... Your comments are completely off the mark sashadidi.
Thanks Todd for levelling with the shareholding community. Wish others would follow your example.
That was an odd post from sashadidi after nine years of silence. In my view, posting comments on customer experiences, and gauging foot traffic in public places of business, is all fair game and welcome commentary. Posting internal documents on the other hand, is murky territory.
I wasn't dissuaded from recently buying back some of what I sold in the NZX50 inclusion event. Happy holder once again.
kiwikeith
16-05-2024, 06:10 PM
Hi everyone time for me to step in again.
Not sure how this image was taken, probably not worth digging into that. This is basically a buyers guide for our car buyers and steers them on the cars to avoid (known mechanical issues...we get this data from our insurance business Autosure + experience) and who they need to get approval from internally to buy cars. Your comments are completely off the mark sashadidi. It doesn't signal anything about how tough or otherwise it is for Turners. What is does signal is that demand is shifting down the price point curve and moderating above for more expensive cars ($20k and above). Unsurprisingly used cars remain resilient but consumers have less to spend...it isn't rocket science and something we have been talking about for 18 months now. This internal document simply helps ensure we source cars where the demand in the market is and avoids the known problem cars...and we are doing this quite successfully as well.
As at the end of March the value of our inventory was down but stock units up. Mar-24 3,465 units @ average price of $7,200 (FY23 3,021 units @ average price of $8,600).
Absolutely fantastic to see a chief of a company commenting on an investor forum. Joey Agree from Agree Realty listed on the NYSE often comments on the seeking Alpha investor website. The effort is really appreciated. I bought a car (Prius) from Turners in Palmy late last year for $21k. I happy to learn I am the proud owner of a 'more expensive car".
alokdhir
16-05-2024, 07:37 PM
Market up 1.75 % and TRA flat ...at least it stopped falling ...Friday shud be interesting ....
winner69
17-05-2024, 09:08 AM
Our man Todd a big winner at Finance Professionals Awards
Suppose he had to step up after Tina winning awards lol
Well done Todd
Turners Automotive chief executive Todd Hunter, Westpac’s Kate Archer and Māori business leader Hinerangi Raumati were honoured for their leadership at the Institute of Finance Professionals (Infinz) Awards in Auckland tonight.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/infinz-awards-big-winners-in-the-finance-industry-named/PV6JNFYZZ5G33DSPFTZHUNIPJY/
alokdhir
17-05-2024, 03:29 PM
Market up 1.75 % and TRA flat ...at least it stopped falling ...Friday shud be interesting ....
Some excitement back for the results Tuesday ...over $ 4 and selling stopped ...sellers become wiser !!!
mike2020
17-05-2024, 05:46 PM
Just looks like big seller done. Might turn out to have been a great opportunity.
Jonette
20-05-2024, 10:41 AM
Hi everyone time for me to step in again.
Not sure how this image was taken, probably not worth digging into that. This is basically a buyers guide for our car buyers and steers them on the cars to avoid (known mechanical issues...we get this data from our insurance business Autosure + experience) and who they need to get approval from internally to buy cars. Your comments are completely off the mark sashadidi. It doesn't signal anything about how tough or otherwise it is for Turners. What is does signal is that demand is shifting down the price point curve and moderating above for more expensive cars ($20k and above). Unsurprisingly used cars remain resilient but consumers have less to spend...it isn't rocket science and something we have been talking about for 18 months now. This internal document simply helps ensure we source cars where the demand in the market is and avoids the known problem cars...and we are doing this quite successfully as well.
As at the end of March the value of our inventory was down but stock units up. Mar-24 3,465 units @ average price of $7,200 (FY23 3,021 units @ average price of $8,600).
My 2 Cents, unfortunately due to health problems I had to reduce participating, hopefully I can do more:
My data from Trademe confirms Todd's comments, Turners purchases by price band have moved exactly as he says. Price is not relevant to Turners, the key factor is margin on each car, so take my data and assume your own margins you may find more value. I assume turnover at lower prices being higher while margins may be lower, it will be interesting to see the net impact;
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/QdDwD/1/
Inventory across the market was farcically increased by a recent Trademe promo, but has retained quite high indexed levels compared to Turners. Meanwhile 2CC inventory is high for them.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/GeaXh/104/
Further to comments above about subscriptions, Turners seems to be holding well in this market
https://www.datawrapper.de/_/NGtpq/?v=16
I update these charts regularly, but rarely on here - Datawrapper looks after them
Sideshow Bob
21-05-2024, 08:49 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/431370
Turners delivers record FY24 earnings and lays out roadmap for future growth
Turners Automotive Group (NZX/ASX: TRA) has again delivered record earnings for the financial year to March 31, 2024 (FY24), underscoring its resilient earnings platform, and the value of diversification, integrating the activity and annuity elements of its business.
Despite economic challenges and soft consumer demand, the company achieved its FY24 target a year early, is well placed to exceed its FY25 Net Profit Before Tax (NPBT) target of $50M and today announced its new medium-term target for $65m NPBT in FY28.Key
Financial Highlights:
● Revenue $417m +7%
● EBIT $58.6m up 12%
● NPBT $49.1m +8%
● NPAT $33.0m +1.5% (normalised NPAT $35.1M +8%)1
● Earnings per share (EPS) 37.7cps 0% (normalised EPS 40.2cps +7%)1
● Final dividend declared of 7.5 cents per share (cps)
● Full year dividend of 25.5cps +11%, representing a gross yield of ~9% per annum based on current share price ($4.10)1The legislative change to remove depreciation on commercial buildings has increased the effective tax rate to 33% for FY24. This is a one-off non-cash impact in FY24 only.
The effective tax rate over the last two years is between 27.5-28.5%. A normalised NPAT using FY23 tax rate of 28.5% would be $35.1M +8% and EPS would be 40.2 +7%.
Key Business Highlights:
● Auto segment profit was up 27% and constituted more than 50% of group profits. Driven by two new branches launched in FY24, improved sourcing, retail optimisation (from wholesale auctions to retail), growing brand strength, operating efficiencies and solid organic growth across the network.
● Finance segment has weathered the interest rate shock as we deliberately sacrificed some top line growth over the last two years to focus on higher quality borrowers, positioning the segment well as interest rates ease. Net interest margin (NIM) is expanding, following an inflection point during H2 and rate headwinds will now turn into tailwinds. Meanwhile, arrears remain significantly below industry benchmarks.
● Insurance segment increased contribution to profit as a well-tuned business with robust policy sales, well managed claims and improved investment returns. Notably claims cost inflation was offset by reduced frequency of claims.
● Credit Management business has turned a corner with debt load recovering in line with a tightening economy, particularly in SMEs. The business is well-placed for growth as the economy tightens and debt value load continues to increase.
● A strong culture remains a key advantage, ranking in the top 5% of consumer businesses globally using Peakon (employee engagement tool). 50% of the team took up the Employee Share Scheme offer.
● Outlook: An anticipated deterioration in economic conditions during HY25, combined with cycling against a high-growth HY24 comparative period arising in part from extreme weather events, means we expect HY25 to be testing.
Our near term focus remains on exceeding the $50M NPBT goal in FY25, despite the economic backdrop. Beyond FY25, Turners is well-placed to continue to make strong progress, thanks to the resilience of a diversified business model (activity and annuity), and clear strategy for further growth.
Turner’s FY24 result demonstrated strong earnings in challenging conditions, thanks to its resilient, diversified business model, and is well placed to implement its next phase of development and growth.Group revenue rose 7% to $417m, delivering a record NPBT result of $49.1m up 8% on FY23.
The Auto Retail segment achieved another year of 20%+ growth, with segment profit up 27% over FY23 to $31.8m. Although the Finance segment’s profit was down, revenue continued to grow, and further progress was made improving the quality of the loan book, and rebuilding lending margins. Insurance continued its steady growth of recent years with 15% profit growth. And Credit Management expanded of a low base, recording 9% profit growth.
Todd Hunter, CEO, said: “We’re pleased to continue to deliver another record result for shareholders. Our business is founded on delivering great experiences for our customers. We continue to innovate, gain market share and improve margins across all segments. In addition to the continued expansion of our activity businesses (Auto Retail and Credit Management), our annuity businesses (Finance and Insurance) have gained momentum. This underscores the benefits of our diversification strategy and ensures the resilience we need to grow, through all phases of the economic cycle.
“Our Auto Retail segment again excelled and is now entering a build phase for our next growth push. Our Finance segment has weathered the interest rate shock, continued to improve its credit scores and is now back into growth mode. Our Insurance and Credit Management teams continue to finely-tune these businesses to market-leading positions with future opportunity as the economic cycle tightens.
”FY24 Financial resultsNPBT for the full year increased 8% to $49.1m. Net profit after tax (NPAT) of $33.0m was up 1.5%. EBIT rose 12% to $58.6m.Earnings per share (EPS) for FY24 were 37.7cps, matching last year. The legislative change to remove depreciation on commercial buildings increased the effective tax rate to 33% for FY24. This is a one-off non-cash impact for FY24 only.A final 7.5cps dividend (payable in July) takes FY24 dividends to 25.5cps, up 11% on last year.
This meets the company’s dividend policy payout of 60-70% of net profit after tax (NPAT), and represents a yield of ~9% per annum based on the current share price.Grant Baker, Chairman, said: “This is an outstanding result for the business in light of the economic backdrop. The strength of our brand, and our distribution networks means we are ever more accessible and trusted by customers, offering strong adjacent opportunities.
The resilience of our diversified model leaves us well-placed for what comes next in the economic cycle. Our leadership position and strong balance sheet, means we can continue to invest for our next phase of growth, even in tough times, so that we remain ahead of the market as conditions begin to improve into the next year and beyond.
We continue to remain focused on returns to shareholders, as well as strengthening our platform for growth as we now implement our roadmap to NPBT of $65m at FY28. The economic conditions New Zealand is faced with are challenging but I have absolute confidence in the team to keep delivering.”
Louloubell
21-05-2024, 09:43 AM
As expected and a solid result. Good outlook and a clear plan forward. A business everyone can understand and clear communication; no gobbeligook. I'm a long term and happy holder.
percy
21-05-2024, 10:03 AM
A stunner with a very positive outlook.
Sideshow Bob
21-05-2024, 10:33 AM
Sub $4 was good buying last week.
Snoopy
21-05-2024, 10:44 AM
Sub $4 was good buying last week.
Yes it was. Where is this 'hindsight fund' you guys have had so much success with of late? I looked all the way through the NZX tickers and couldn't seem to find it?
SNOOPY
Hindsight fund always does so well !
4:20 today might have to add for 9%
bull....
21-05-2024, 04:27 PM
outlook statement was as expected.
Snow Leopard
22-05-2024, 04:37 PM
Turners distribution notice (https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/431370/attachment/418838/431370-418838.pdf) says that the latest dividend has an ex-div date of 17 July and a payment date of 26 July.
But when I look at the NZX webpage for upcoming dividends (https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/dividends) that says says 16 July and 25 Jul respectively.
Is this what other people see also?
Thanks
bulltrap
22-05-2024, 04:50 PM
But when I look at the NZX webpage for upcoming dividends (https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/dividends) that says says 16 July and 25 Jul respectively.
Is this what other people see also?
NZX is showing 17 July and 26 Jul for me. Maybe it's a time zone issue - check the clock on the top-right corner of the NZX page.
Snow Leopard
22-05-2024, 04:59 PM
NZX is showing 17 July and 26 Jul for me. Maybe it's a time zone issue - check the clock on the top-right corner of the NZX page.
Thank you.
I and my puter are four hours behind you guys, so presumably that is the cause of the issue.
The NZX website has recently been 'updated' and this is an introduced bug. There are probably more.
outlook statement was as expected.
Pretty ominous - what is now coming out looking forward from a few larger listed companies now
Might be quite a few more out there diving to lower SP depths IMO
Similar sentiments from other reports - FBU, PGG, IFT, SPK etc .. could be a rough ride ahead with lots of red short term
Snow Leopard
24-05-2024, 03:02 PM
Thank you.
I and my puter are four hours behind you guys, so presumably that is the cause of the issue.
The NZX website has recently been 'updated' and this is an introduced bug. There are probably more.
Good to see the NZX website working properly again. They have rolled backed to the 'older' version. :t_up:
bull....
24-05-2024, 03:13 PM
Pretty ominous - what is now coming out looking forward from a few larger listed companies now
Might be quite a few more out there diving to lower SP depths IMO
Similar sentiments from other reports - FBU, PGG, IFT, SPK etc .. could be a rough ride ahead with lots of red short term
RBNZ latest staement wont help them either
percy
24-05-2024, 04:03 PM
"It is incredibly tough going right now for very many New Zealanders, but they still need cars, and those cars must be affordable."said 2CC's chairman today.
Turners and 2CC are well positioned to supply those cars.
alokdhir
07-06-2024, 10:31 AM
From recent price action after pretty good historic results makes me wonder the selling before the results was not misinformed selling but starting of a trend ...market is worried about grassroots economy activity ...so it needs to go lower ...also luke warm forward commentary is not helping .
When TRA ( most well run small retail oriented company ) is unloved ...times are bad ...not ahead ...right now maybe ...TA people will know if 3.50 on cards ?
From recent price action after pretty good historic results makes me wonder the selling before the results was not misinformed selling but starting of a trend ...market is worried about grassroots economy activity ...so it needs to go lower ...also luke warm forward commentary is not helping .
When TRA ( most well run small retail oriented company ) is unloved ...times are bad ...not ahead ...right now maybe ...TA people will know if 3.50 on cards ?
Agreed about grassroots. Everyone but Adrian Orr is panicking about our economy, hence no need for rate cuts until next year. I am all for interest rate cuts by end of this year. With TRA however, they are not massively impacted by recession and we will see the price ramp back up by the end of this year. Good buy-in now I feel. DYOR please on that
bull....
07-06-2024, 11:01 AM
From recent price action after pretty good historic results makes me wonder the selling before the results was not misinformed selling but starting of a trend ...market is worried about grassroots economy activity ...so it needs to go lower ...also luke warm forward commentary is not helping .
When TRA ( most well run small retail oriented company ) is unloved ...times are bad ...not ahead ...right now maybe ...TA people will know if 3.50 on cards ?
new car sales are down 5 mths in a row. so im guessing second hand market will follow at some stage
alokdhir
07-06-2024, 11:58 AM
Agree with the general sentiment ...excellent companies are to be bought during downtrend ...they recover as better managed ...FPH / MFT comes to. mind ..
TA people will know what shud be likely bottom ...3.80 is strong support and 7.5 cents divvy round the corner
Agree with the general sentiment ...excellent companies are to be bought during downtrend ...they recover as better managed ...FPH / MFT comes to. mind ..
TA people will know what shud be likely bottom ...3.80 is strong support and 7.5 cents divvy round the corner
Agreed.
but the local rags reporting tough times at retail & car dealers closing up wont be helping things
Time to start preparing the bargains list IMO
new car sales are down 5 mths in a row. so im guessing second hand market will follow at some stage
There is still a great market for cars under $20,000, I am happy holding onto my shares with no plans to let them go anytime soon.
percy
07-06-2024, 03:11 PM
Turners retail car sales..Gaining increased market share.
Oxford Finance.Quality lending results in lower impairment.Lower interest rates and recycling funds into new loans means increasing
net interest margin.
Turners Insurance.Well managed claims and improved investment returns.
Credit Management.Growing demand.
Property.Developing their Auto retail sites means they pocket the development margin.Clever use of their insurance float.
Most people over look Turners very clever profitable property deals.
Solid clever Directors/Management.Large shareholdings mean they are attune with shareholders.
bull....
07-06-2024, 03:58 PM
Agree with the general sentiment ...excellent companies are to be bought during downtrend ...they recover as better managed ...FPH / MFT comes to. mind ..
TA people will know what shud be likely bottom ...3.80 is strong support and 7.5 cents divvy round the corner
3.20 was pivot to double top
if demand dry's right up who know. people be hanging onto there cars longer i reckon this yr.
percy
07-06-2024, 04:34 PM
"Despite the challenges of fewer selling days due to public holidays and school breaks, the surge in registrations of imported used passenger vehicles by 10% in April 2024, reaching 8731 units, is a significant trend to note.
This figure marks a notable increase from the 7939 units registered in April 2023."
I would guess if the importers are importing more used cars it would follow they are selling more of them.
Therefore I think when new car sales are up,second hand car sales are also up.
When new car sales are down, it appears not to affect used car sales.In fact currently used car sales appear to be up.
Big difference is a new car costs $30,000 plus,while the growing market is for cars under $20,000 or $15,000.
This is a market that both Turners and 2CC are concentrating on.
Others may disagree with me,but today $12,000 buys a very good second hand car.
I would point out that used car sales have slowed down in winter for the past 50 years..
Snoopy
07-06-2024, 05:05 PM
I would point out that used car sales have slowed down in winter for the past 50 years..
So what was it that happened 51 years ago (1973)?
SNOOPY
percy
07-06-2024, 05:14 PM
So what was it that happened 51 years ago (1973)?
SNOOPY
I do not know..
Snoopy
07-06-2024, 05:17 PM
I do not know..
I remembered. It was this.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJv_DfMZ7jU
SNOOPY
bull....
04-07-2024, 08:32 AM
new car sales have fallen of a cliff recently , A leading economic indicator along with many other depressing indicators reflecting tough times.
Will be interesting to see how turners are navigating these tough times
new car sales have fallen of a cliff recently , A leading economic indicator along with many other depressing indicators reflecting tough times.
Will be interesting to see how turners are navigating these tough times
This is their outlook:
There is no doubt that trading conditions got harder in the final quarter of the FY24 year. Looking ahead, we anticipate a further deterioration in economic conditions during the first half of our financial year (HY25) but expect to see the economy start to recover in the second half. Our near-term focus remains on exceeding the $50M NPBT goal in FY25, despite the economic backdrop, however there remains some obvious risks with the level of interest rates impacting the overall economy and consumer demand
new car sales have fallen of a cliff recently , A leading economic indicator along with many other depressing indicators reflecting tough times.
Will be interesting to see how turners are navigating these tough times
You will find that cars over $20,000 will struggle to sell and cars under that keep selling as normal. I feel this has been discussed multiple times that even in a recession the Turners total business model does ok. Sure the finance side may increase with the number of people behind in payments, but overall the company still does well. I am a happy holder for years now and have no intention of selling any shares and will accumulate if people panic
percy
04-07-2024, 10:08 AM
You will find that cars over $20,000 will struggle to sell and cars under that keep selling as normal. I feel this has been discussed multiple times that even in a recession the Turners total business model does ok. Sure the finance side may increase with the number of people behind in payments, but overall the company still does well. I am a happy holder for years now and have no intention of selling any shares and will accumulate if people panic
I agree Turners are concentrating on the "sweet spot" in the market ie under $15,000.
There is a lot of excellent parts to Turners to like.
Car Sales,including auctions.
Car Insurance
Car mechanical insurance.
Car finance.
End of life car disposals.
Property dealing,including grabbing development margins on new sites.
Debt collection business.
Car sales slow down in winter.
It is OK to be down on a poor month,but the real profits come from being up on the good months.
Jonette
04-07-2024, 04:48 PM
Some details on Turners stock - shared because I can.
Turners is fine, they do not sell new cars. 2nd hand sales are down in June, but at this time of year sales are variable Quarterly data shows the year is pretty good. Turners say they have almost 10% of this; https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/vGSi4/2/
I suspect they are responding to demand. Their total stock is about 4% of national inventory, but as they state, they sell about 9-10%, ie they take on average about 2 weeks to sell a car.
Other factors; Our govt appears to be talking the economy down - I guess so they can take the credit for improvements/ My truckometer is now fully focussed on Auckland motorway because Waka Kotahi don't take publishing stats seriously, The truckometer (Daily number of trucks passing Drury on the southern motorway) suggests the market is still rumbling along ( i use this to understand Mainfreight - MFT ) https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/Dugrc/20/
Share of inventory by price range. Second hand cars are still selling well while Turners temporarily focussed on cheaper cars but have reversed that a little recently; https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/dp3a0/2/
2nd hand Traders share of market, notice the change from prior to 2021 to post 2022. A change worth discussing; https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/RuTDR/5/
Turners inventory, this year is a bit lower than other years, but management have been testing theories of using Trademe or not. BTW, 2CC have almost ceased using Trademe, I doubt that works for them, their sales staff immediately swamped their 2CC site listings with sold cars, no doubt to massage their egos. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3FAuw/4/
Another nice dividend on the way.
DarkHorse
19-07-2024, 04:38 PM
I remembered. It was this.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJv_DfMZ7jU
SNOOPY
Wow!!! That song could surely knock "We Built this City on Rock and Roll" off its perch!
(On the 'worst song of all time' list)
percy
24-07-2024, 09:20 AM
Turners Automotive Group Ltd
No Need to Shift Gears, Growth on Track
link
OUTPERFORM
We initiate full coverage of Turners Automotive Group (TRA) with an OUTPERFORM rating and a 12-month target price of NZ$5.30. TRA is a high quality operator which has gained market share and grown earnings through the interest rate cycle. We see a clear pathway to further earnings growth driven by (1) footprint expansion from new branches, (2) margin recovery and book growth in its Finance segment as the OCR falls and (3) further sales channel optimisation in its Auto Retail segment. While there are risks from a continued deterioration in the consumer environment, we view TRA's 12-month forward PE of ~10x as undemanding, especially in the context of our FY24-FY28 EPS CAGR of ~+10%. Additionally, TRA offers an attractive gross yield of ~8.9% and has been one of the premier dividend growers in the New Zealand market over the last decade.
NZX Code
TRA
Share price
NZ$4.22
Target price
NZ$5.30
Risk rating
Medium
C&ESG rating
n/a
Market cap
NZ$373m
Avg daily turnover
59.5k (NZ$262k)
Financials: Mar/
24A
25E
26E
27E
Rev (NZ$m)
362.1
387.4
414.5
436.6
NPAT* (NZ$m)
33.0
36.6
40.7
45.2
EPS* (NZc)
37.3
41.5
46.1
51.1
DPS (NZc)
25.5
27.0
30.0
34.0
Imputation (%)
100
100
100
100
*Based on normalised profits
Valuation (x)
24A
25E
26E
27E
PE
11.3
10.2
9.2
8.3
EV/EBIT
33.1
52.4
47.4
45.6
EV/EBITDA
21.0
26.3
24.1
23.0
Price / NTA
3.3
2.9
2.6
2.4
Cash div yld (%)
6.0
6.4
7.1
8.1
Gross div yld (%)
8.4
8.9
9.9
11.2
What's changed?
Earnings: We make minor changes to NPAT -1%/-1%/+3%/ over FY25/ FY26/FY27.
Target price: Our 12-month target price is NZ$5.30, representing ~11.5x our FY26 EPS estimate.
Rating: We initiate full coverage with an OUTPERFORM rating.
Strong execution through the cycle
TRA has demonstrated strong execution during the current economic downturn, achieving record earnings in FY24 (on its preferred NPBT measure) despite a challenging consumer backdrop. While profitability in Finance has been constrained by rapidly rising interest rates, this has been more than offset by strong market share gains in Auto Retail and steady growth in Insurance. TRA has a diversified base of annuity and non-annuity earnings streams which have largely insulated it from the cycle.
Clear pathway to earnings growth
We see a clear pathway towards TRA's medium-term NPBT target of >NZ$65m by FY28. The key drivers of earnings growth will be (1) expansion of the Auto Retail network from new sites and upgrades to existing sites, (2) margin recovery and book growth in the Finance division as interest rates fall, and (3) continued Auto Retail optimisation through the transition of stock from the wholesale to retail sale channel. TRA should also benefit from increased Finance and Insurance attachment rates as Auto Retail grows.
Valuation undemanding
TRA is trading on a ~10x 12-month forward PE, in line with its historical average ex-Covid and at a slight discount to its automotive and NZ retail peers. We think a premium valuation is now warranted given its improved business quality, track record of execution through the cycle and leverage to interest rate falls, and earnings growth outlook (we forecast a +10% EPS CAGR from FY24-FY28).
J
Louloubell
24-07-2024, 11:57 AM
Thank you Percy. I'm a long term Turners holder. The aspect not mentioned in the report is that Turners is a diversified and complimentary business. Selling cars only makes up half the profit. Go you good beast (Turners 😎)
Sideshow Bob
24-07-2024, 12:22 PM
I've for all wondered the effect of such recommendations of share prices.....
NZX is small, quite concentrated with the number of (decent) companies and a small number of brokers dominate the market - Jarden, Craigs, FB.
With their funds under management and retail business, how much do they then pump the 'outperform' recommendations?? How much does it become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
As I type, TRA up 10c, and Tower has also been on a tear lately.....
Sideshow Bob
29-07-2024, 10:18 AM
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/435175/attachment/423519/435175-423519.pdf
DRP at $4.22
Sideshow Bob
13-08-2024, 08:37 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/436021
Turners Automotive Group Invest in Quashed Online Insurance Platform
Turners Automotive Group is pleased to announce its strategic investment of $1 million in Quashed, an innovative online insurance platform. This represents a 13% stake in the rapidly growing Kiwi company, which is progressing quickly toward its near-term goal of 100,000 users.
Sideshow Bob
17-08-2024, 09:17 AM
After Orr referenced Tina during his OCR speech...... :p
15223
How refreshing to read an announcement about a company issuing shares not to management and directors like most companies sadly do but to the part time and full time workers. Great for everybody, well done Turners.
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