KFL - discount to diluted NAV

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/432510

Kingfish Limited (Kingfish) wishes to advise all Kingfish Warrant Holders (KFLWH) that the final exercise price of the Kingfish warrants is $1.26.

Further details regarding the Kingfish warrants, which have an exercise date of 26 July 2024, will be emailed/mailed to all warrant holders before the end of June 2024.

[alokdhir]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/432510

Kingfish Limited (Kingfish) wishes to advise all Kingfish Warrant Holders (KFLWH) that the final exercise price of the Kingfish warrants is $1.26.

Further details regarding the Kingfish warrants, which have an exercise date of 26 July 2024, will be emailed/mailed to all warrant holders before the end of June 2024.

Good luck with that ..lol ....Unless friends of fund bring SP close to current NAV of 1.3320 !!!

[Sideshow Bob]

Good luck with that ..lol ....Unless friends of fund bring SP close to current NAV of 1.3320 !!!

Regardless, there is always some exercised.......:mellow:

[mike2020]

5 weeks. I still think it can go either way.

[alokdhir]

5 weeks. I still think it can go either way.

easily possible ...discount is too high at the moment ...they can officially close it till 6% that takes to 94% of 1.3320 to 1.25 then add few cents for some portfolio appreciation in next 6 weeks ...SP can be $ 1.28 and NAV 1.36 ...very feasible ...

[Sideshow Bob]

For anyone who can't decide whether to buy at $1.20 (currently) or exercise warrants at $1.26.....

But there will always be some!!

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/432781

The final exercise price of the Kingfish warrants is $1.26.

Please note the share price is very close to the exercise price. Any warrant holders needing help in deciding what to do, should speak with their financial adviser or broker.

As the KFLWH warrant exercise date of 26 July 2024 is approaching, you have the following choices with your warrants:
• You can elect to exercise some or all of your warrants on 26 July 2024 at the final Exercise Price of $1.26.
• You can seek to sell or transfer your warrants on the NZX Main Board until 5.00pm 24 July 2024.
• You can elect to not exercise any warrants and allow the warrants to lapse.Any warrants not exercised by 5.00pm on 26 July 2024 will lapse and all rights relating to the warrants will expire.

What should I do if I wish to exercise my warrants?If you wish to exercise some or all of your warrants, you should:
• visit www.warrants.co.nz/kingfish (http://www.warrants.co.nz/kingfish) and complete the online Exercise Form;
• pay the Exercise Price required to be paid in accordance with the payment instructions set out below.Payment• Payment must be made in full by paying the Exercise Price of $1.26 per warrant that you wish to exercise.
• Payment is to be made in New Zealand dollars by direct credit.
• If there is a discrepancy between the amount of application monies and the number of warrants being exercised as indicated on your online Exercise Form, Kingfish will treat the application as being for the number of warrants being exercised as the application monies will pay for.

Direct credit Payment is to be made by direct credit to the Kingfish Limited Warrant Account. Please include your CSN number as the deposit reference.Payment should be made to the following account:Bank: ASB BANK LIMITED BRANCH: CORPORATE BANKINGAccount Number: 12-3244-0000035-01

[alokdhir]

DRP of $ 1.1689 was much beyond initial expectations ...DRP holders are nailing it these days ...always in the money . Easy to hammer price in 5 days in low liquidity to. get very favourable DRP strike...works great for me and other DRP subscribers ...also helps fund increase their AUM ...win win ...cash dividend people maybe. the losers here I reckon !!

[winner69]

Hey alokdhir, how many zillions do Kingfish need for IFT cap raise

Got enough cash or need to sell other stuff?

[Toddy]

Hey alokdhir, how many zillions do Kingfish need for IFT cap raise

Got enough cash or need to sell other stuff?

Good point. How many investors would have factored this into the KFL equation.

I was surprised.

[winner69]

Good point. How many investors would have factored this into the KFL equation.

I was surprised.

Rough guess only need about $9m

Easy peasy


But increase that 17% of fund won’t it ….might do some rebalancing

[alokdhir]

Hey alokdhir, how many zillions do Kingfish need for IFT cap raise

Got enough cash or need to sell other stuff?

I will let the fund managers take the call. ...after all they charge management fees ...why we need bother how they. manage as. long. as they manage well !!

[mike2020]

I had a quick look, they might have sold ATM to fund it. ;) Later when it rebounds like a coiled spring they can swap back and finally show us what an active fund manager does!

All speculation with a healthy dose of sarcasm.

[alokdhir]

With IFT / FPH going great guns ....KFL is becoming more and more undervalued ....NAV rising SP dropping ...wow

[Rawz]

With IFT / FPH going great guns ....KFL is becoming more and more undervalued ....NAV rising SP dropping ...wow
It’s like buying free money aye

[alokdhir]

It’s like buying free money aye

Its happening mostly due to DRP holders selling and cashing their dividends ...they are still in the money as DRP strike was $ 1.1689 ...opportunity for new investors

[Grimy]

I bought a few off them today. But it was only worth a couple of cents to them.

[Toddy]

It’s like buying free money aye


Its like their formula does not work investing in NZX stocks. Because to exit would tank the individual stock share prices back to the current head share price. Maybe this is a factor.

[Not too Flash]

NAV hanging in there ....

[ronaldson]

NAV hanging in there ....

Yes, NAV at $1.31 and the VWAP on-market today is barely over $1.18. Judging by the daily notices from KFL they are the main buyer currently and are likely buying again today to underpin even that modest price.

The market is very downbeat at the moment. One could suggest KFL at this discount is one of the bargains on offer, but like some other NZX listings there are is not much competition currently.

[alokdhir]

KFL will be giving about 2.8 million shares under DRP next week ...instead of issuing new @ 1.31 they are preferring to buy on market @ 1.18 ...saving company thus holders money by reducing the dilution from 1.31 to 1.1689 vs 1.18 to 1.1689 ....they will be giving away this recently acquired treasury shares as DRP instead of issuing new !! Works out favourable for holders and not so for fund ...but its small change overall

[777]

At 1.17 discount now to NTA of 1.3221 is 11.5%.

Still a reasonably big seller of the stock in the picture.

[Perky]

Yeah..I’ve been adding a few at $1.17…my buying strategy is to offer the DRP price 1.1689 + small margin..lol

Thank you to sellers.

Maybe Carmen still cashing up…seems plenty on offer.

[alokdhir]

With latest nav at 1.3221 ...then company can officially take to 1.243 ...little help from portfolio they can try to salvage their warrants issue ...not exactly impossible

[Not too Flash]

Interesting purchase of warrants .....

[ronaldson]

Looks like a buy order for 2m warrants at $0.001 has now part traded. IMO last chance for substantial holders to exit. You need to sell 29900 warrants thou just to cover Jarden's brokerage fee.

[alokdhir]

Either the buyer is a big speculator or he knows something which can make his $ 2000 into $ 20000 ? Not easy to understand why waste $ 2000 but he must be having a plan or money to throw ....:p

[Rawz]

Either the buyer is a big speculator or he knows something which can make his $ 2000 into $ 20000 ? Not easy to understand why waste $ 2000 but he must be having a plan or money to throw ....:p

maybe just wants 2m head shares and thought this is the quickest/easiest way to get them

[alokdhir]

maybe just wants 2m head shares and thought this is the quickest/easiest way to get them

Cost of convenience = $220,000 ...sounds even more astounding then $ 2000 gamble !!!!

[Sideshow Bob]

Cost of convenience = $220,000 ...sounds even more astounding then $ 2000 gamble !!!!

Probably better (and more rewarding) to bet on KFL than the Wahs......;)

[777]

May be they just wanted to be top of the holders list in the Annual Report.

[alokdhir]

If one compare from largest holdings of 2023 and 2024 Annual reports ....only one account via ASB Nominees holdings have come down substantially ...appox 5 million shares less

I assume its of Carmel Fisher ...holdings down from 9.4 million to 4.8 million ...still some left to dispose if aim is to fully cash out !!!

[alokdhir]

The way KFL is buying back soon they will have. more shares then most ....their name can come in Top 20 holdings list soon ...lol :p

But Good on them ...its best. value with 11.2% discount to NAV ...today's shud be around $ 1.3150 !!!

[Rawz]

The way KFL is buying back soon they will have. more shares then most ....their name can come in Top 20 holdings list soon ...lol :p

But Good on them ...its best. value with 11.2% discount to NAV ...today's shud be around $ 1.3150 !!!

They should buy as many of their shares as they can while the underlying holdings are near their lows and there is a huge discount to NAV.

Like buy enough for 5 years dividend reinvestment program. That way they won’t need to sell holdings on the way back up the cycle

[ronaldson]

The 2m buy order for warrants at $0.001 has now been completely mopped up. Allowed a few larger holders to exit for a little more than the cost of brokerage, but a circumstance that will not be seen again IMO.

I still can't figure out why the buyer would literally throw money away, but then again the next opportunity comes when the warrants are available to be exercised. We will all be able to see how many are taken up on that occasion and wonder at the mindlessness of it. I suppose the only possible saving grace would be that taking up warrants at $1.26 will still be acquisition at less than NTA. Certainly the KFL managers are busy in the market every day buying at the current on-market price, which surely is a better return on investment than adding to any of the current holdings that make the KFL "basket".

[Ferg]

I still can't figure out why the buyer would literally throw money away, but then again the next opportunity comes when the warrants are available to be exercised. We will all be able to see how many are taken up on that occasion and wonder at the mindlessness of it.
I have seen this sort of behaviour previously with posters on reddit's 'wall street bets' where punters throw money at short dated options that are out of the money. It's gambling in the hope of outrageous returns with a small % chance of success. I don't think you will see the warrants exercised - the punter is hoping for a miracle. That said there have been some unusual price movements in a couple of investments in the KFL basket lately but I suspect it is not enough to have a meaningful impact on KFL NTA.

[winner69]

Market likes sound of Orr’s speech today

Lower rates and NZD giving FPH and MFT a big boost

Go Kingfish

[alokdhir]

Market likes sound of Orr’s speech today

Lower rates and NZD giving FPH and MFT a big boost

Go Kingfish

Needs more whole hearted encouragement ...NAV is close to $ 1.33 and discount widest we have seen recently ...12 % ...looks like enemies of the fund making sure warrants go dud ...lol ...friends need wake up ...

[tim23]

Needs more whole hearted encouragement ...NAV is close to $ 1.33 and discount widest we have seen recently ...12 % ...looks like enemies of the fund making sure warrants go dud ...lol ...friends need wake up ...
Historically the discount has been around 10% likewise for MLN and BRM but oddly for a window of euphoria they traded at a premium- back to normal now.

[alokdhir]

Historically the discount has been around 10% likewise for MLN and BRM but oddly for a window of euphoria they traded at a premium- back to normal now.

https://kingfish.co.nz/documents/nav/mktupdte-kfl-kfl-nav-as-at-22120---16978-315660.pdf

Just a random day before covid ...historically it's around 2-3 % and not 10% ....coming from a holder since 2010 ....yes premium was one off and wont happen again ....imho

PS : Buybacks levels was 10% then 8% and now 6% ...slowly slowly they trying to bring SP closer to NAV

[mike2020]

My question is how much more can they afford to buy? At such a discount is it viable for them to buy the fund and sell head shares proportionally?
I find it odd SUM and RYM reacted so quickly.

[tim23]

https://kingfish.co.nz/documents/nav/mktupdte-kfl-kfl-nav-as-at-22120---16978-315660.pdf

Just a random day before covid ...historically it's around 2-3 % and not 10% ....coming from a holder since 2010 ....yes premium was one off and wont happen again ....imho

PS : Buybacks levels was 10% then 8% and now 6% ...slowly slowly they trying to bring SP closer to NAV

My memory goes well before that!

[SPC]

" slowly they trying to bring SP closer to NAV"..
Hell well that's really working isn't it..😮.
They can't do a damn thing to influence the market price by buying back piddling amounts of shares.
If they don't run out of cash at some point.
I expect there's some head share sales behind the scenes funding the money go-round.
But the broader issue is how many highly paid Fisher Funds investment analysts does it take to just keep buying more MFT/FPH/IFT plus a couple more?. This strategy warrants a fee scale closer to index funds, not expensive FM fees.
I'm glad the warrant issue failed because the fund manager is not spreading the risk much, all we get is more of the favourite top five or so. This works until something goes bung. And it has. Not too long ago ATM was the golden goose with a massive holding. Then boom up it went in smoke. I'd like the Board - that's the Board who are funded by US holders and not Fishers, to cease the rollover/rollover/rollover relationship with Fishers and seriously look elsewhere for a new FM. Milford have an excellent reputation?. Let's ask for the executive summary of the 'five year reviews' and see how much effort was really made to look around the market for alternatives. Seriously...I mean did the Board really look?
Edit: infact I will even go further and suggest Kingfish internalize it's fund management (like most of the listed property players have), after all how hard can it be to keep buying the same stocks?. No expensive external costs and the same skill set on performance based salaries rather than $uperstar stock picker rates.
Think about it ...yes you Board.

Disc. Big holder (and occasional seller when it makes sense because they only get cheaper if you save your divy cash and wait long enough...). It's just another stock...

[ronaldson]

One interesting thing I learned at the meeting, speaking to a Board member privately after, is that at each Board meeting one regular agenda item is the formal review/consideration of the comments on this thread (and now the KFLWH thread) made over the intervening period since their last meeting. The Order Paper contains a full schedule/print out of the actual posts.

Bet you didn't know that. So the Board is cognisant of what we are saying on a basis other than members perhaps individually reviewing the threads in their personal capacity.

This begs the question how many other Boards of NZX listed entities take posts with regard to their entity into account on a formal basis in their deliberations. Would be good to know.

And if that is the case it would be wise to tone down/reduce the number of posts between members of this forum that are nothing more than gratuitously slagging off another member and keep to more salient tidbits/comments of direct relevance to the particular thread.

SPC - See this post above, directly after the 2023 ASM. No reason to believe that modus operandi has changed in the intervening period so your voice will indeed be heard (even if not acted upon).

[SPC]

Yes I do know that😉
And just by the by I don't personally think that Board members reading social media posts is necessarily indicative of a finger on the pulse of the business. It perhaps tells me something else. Why not a shareholder survey ...if that were the reasons.
Do the Board of MFT/IFT/FPH operate in this way?...maybe they might but actually I reckon they're too busy doing other things.
I've been a holder in KFL and it's listed siblings for most of their lives (two since IPO).
I said repeatedly in the past that you can't treat these like listed funds. You'll end up eating your own savings if you're too passive. They are shares...treat them as you would any other listed security. And put yourself in charge. Don't sit in the back seat asking are we there yet...
You'll need to be in the pilot's seat accelerating (and braking) when necessary to avoid potholes on the road.

[Sideshow Bob]

SPC - See this post above, directly after the 2023 ASM. No reason to believe that modus operandi has changed in the intervening period so your voice will indeed be heard (even if not acted upon).

How many people actually roll up to the AGM?? Must be boring as batsh1t as far as AGM's go.

I mean they'll managing some investments/holdings, but not like they are actually doing anything??

[winner69]

SPC - See this post above, directly after the 2023 ASM. No reason to believe that modus operandi has changed in the intervening period so your voice will indeed be heard (even if not acted upon).

Hey Ron, if Kingfish directors do read what is posted here then SPC deserves to have his say and they should listen.

[winner69]

Suppose part of Kingfish managers return is tied to TSR, that being Total Shareholder Return

Share buybacks would be included in that calc ….TSR = dividends + share buy backs + capital gain/loss

Share buybacks seem a good lurk then.

[alokdhir]

Suppose part of Kingfish managers return is tied to TSR, that being Total Shareholder Return

Share buybacks would be included in that calc ….TSR = dividends + share buy backs + capital gain/loss

Share buybacks seem a good lurk then.

Winner mate ....No fund manager howsoever great can manufacture returns if concerned market doesnt perform ...One cant suddenly start complaining about KFL returns while watching US markets performance ...KFL is mandated to be invested in " GOOD QUALITY " liquid and long term growing companies listed on NZX ...they do their job pretty well within these limitations which is validated by their last 20 years performance or outperformance ...if someone has problem with their stock selection etc then he can always exit ...KFL has a purpose for regular income yearners and safe growth seekers while staying on NZX ...one can always have mix of NZ assets and US ...US is where more growth companies are ...but still its called Magnificent 7 these days ...like Top 5 of KFL ...nothing wrong in having concentrated portfolios ...Buffet has 47% in Apple ...no complains but only accolades and followers like SR !!!

[ronaldson]

How many people actually roll up to the AGM?? Must be boring as batsh1t as far as AGM's go.

I mean they'll managing some investments/holdings, but not like they are actually doing anything??

Boring - possibly. How many turn up - quite a few. Could be because they invariably provide one of the most decent spreads afterwards of any NZX listed entity.

[mike2020]

I will second that. They offer decent refreshments and plenty of enthusiasm.

[Perky]

Makes sense they provide a good feed…they are a PIE fund right?

Would be a bit sad if you had to bring a plate to a pie fund meeting.

[alokdhir]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434344

Cant get any better then this for opportunity ...but ....

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434344

Cant get any better then this for opportunity ...but ....

Spot on mate …….in buzz words an intergenerational buying opportunity …….capital gains as RB has pivoted ….gains to come from increased NAV and a big market rerate

Chart shows why …cool eh

[alokdhir]

Spot on mate …….in buzz words an intergenerational buying opportunity …….capital gains as RB has pivoted ….gains to come from increased NAV and a big market rerate

Chart shows why …cool eh

Great Chart shows what path it will follow ahead ....Today it has done its bit NAV closed over $ 1.35 !!!

[alokdhir]

Today its well over $ 1.36 ...if they work hard can salvage some warrants ...MFT and RYM helping big time :t_up:

[Toddy]

Today its well over $ 1.36 ...if they work hard can salvage some warrants ...MFT and RYM helping big time :t_up:

But I thought you said that you didn't want any warrants to be exercised?

[alokdhir]

But I thought you said that you didn't want any warrants to be exercised?

I never said that mate ...I said if the exercise price is way lower then NAV then they will end up diluting NAV for the whole lot ...like what will happen to BRM ...here for them to be exercised SP need go over $ 1.26+ ...me happy with that more then not ...hopefully it makes it more clear

[Toddy]

I never said that mate ...I said if the exercise price is way lower then NAV then they will end up diluting NAV for the whole lot ...like what will happen to BRM ...here for them to be exercised SP need go over $ 1.26+ ...me happy with that more then not ...hopefully it makes it more clear

That logic only makes sense if you only hold head shares.

The portfolio managers issue these warrants for a reason. They were just unfortunate with their timing when issuing the KFL warrants.

[alokdhir]

That logic only makes sense if you only hold head shares.

The portfolio managers issue these warrants for a reason. They were just unfortunate with their timing when issuing the KFL warrants.

Almost all long term holders have already encashed their " free " warrants as it was almost certain that they will go bust come July ...

Also u need study why warrants are given to original head share holders for " free " ...Free = dilution of their head share NAV if exercised ....

[Toddy]

Almost all long term holders have already encashed their " free " warrants as it was almost certain that they will go bust come July ...

Also u need study why warrants are given to original head share holders for " free " ...Free = dilution of their head share NAV if exercised ....

Im not prevy to that information. So didn't know almost all holders had exited.

[alokdhir]

Im not prevy to that information. So didn't know almost all holders had exited.

Most I know here have done including me ...777 did very well around 3.5 cents ...me around 2.2 cents ...still a bonus :t_up:

[Mrbuyit]

I've got 10,000 kflwh, will swap for 6 pack of beer or what have you..

[alokdhir]

Mr B was a big buyer @ $ 1.19 today as per his post on other channel ...he finds discount too lucrative to miss ...fully agree with his sharp eye to see an opportunity and act on it fast !!