Du Val Group ….IPO on way?

[winner69]

Du Val Group hinting at an IPO

Investment in a building developer could attract a few here. The company said it intends to deliver 1,000 residential units annually, specialising in “brownfield regeneration”, terraced housing and apartment schemes.

Market value would be more than Turners the article says

Du Val dangles NZX listing, seeks debt swap for equity
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-dangles-nzx-listing-seeks-debt-swap-for-equity
Possibly paywalled

[SPC]

You know how this goes.

[Rawz]

Would never ever invest in this company

[Balance]

Can't wait!

https://media.businessdesk.co.nz/file/c_fill,w_700,q_100/Kenyon-and-Charlotte-with-his-Phantom-rolls-royce-d.webp

[mike2020]

outstanding cash distributions? spent on the roller?

[thedrunkfish]

Lets play "Who wants to be a bagholder"

[troyvdh]

woof woof gnarl.

[Balance]

Du Val Group hinting at an IPO

Investment in a building developer could attract a few here. The company said it intends to deliver 1,000 residential units annually, specialising in “brownfield regeneration”, terraced housing and apartment schemes.


This is the brownfield regeneration?

https://kjcdn.gumlet.io/media/81234/cow-dung.jpg

[Habits]

Kenyon Clarke looks like the type who would pose doing stretches on the edge, then falls into the pool

Edit: maybe a bit mean to say, apology

[nztx]

Where is the massive hoard of conch shells coming from - to pay for this 1000 motherload of units ?

A series of loans over the shadows of the Roller captured at 1/4 hourly intervals ? ;)

These sort of things don't come cheap or easy to throw up .. let alone in a quantity or even a hundred
at a time - do they ?

Just in the last two years, others have stumbled & fallen badly in the same game plan on lesser numbers
chalked up for the 'to complete' list on hitting the slightest of ripples in the tarseal


How many out there with the readies in hand for these things to easily fly off the Salesperson's plate like clockwork down a slide in tightening times likely ahead, with banks are pulling lending ropes in and likely growing unemployment approaching ?


"Forgo any returns for years" for any dissenting among those already captured .. sounds really encouraging ;)

Could the clear message be that they may be Du Du Done otherwise while the head cherangs merrily sail around in their Roller across the Estate ?


What marvellous revelations for an outfit potentially looking at throwing itself onto NZX :)


Could be worth following for Entertainment Value, if nothing more :)


Does the Roller go with the Show, or is it leased for promotional purposes and has to be returned ? :)


For those who don't have a taste for Developing the Dirt into many boxes .. there's even a Fashion Design Service company, a Wealth Company and a Fitness Company sitting within the Group ..

[nztx]

Things appear to be going swimmingly well submarine style for some in the Property Development sector

Take for example this one -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/house-builder-compass-homes-franklin-stops-trading/T4VLI5ZKD5ETXFWY54FC5ZNPPE/

House-builder Compass Homes Franklin stops trading


And that's in one of the better growth areas for the sector - Article may be paywalled


A fairly good run down of some of the issues the sector faces, including scarcity of sales in this case.

[thedrunkfish]

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/09/work-stops-on-big-du-val-site-as-contractors-threaten-legal-action/

Wonder if it will get to IPO?

[Sideshow Bob]

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/09/work-stops-on-big-du-val-site-as-contractors-threaten-legal-action/

Wonder if it will get to IPO?

Article mentions they “self produced a reality tv show about their life and work’.

If not enough red flags already, massive one there!!

[Habits]

Article mentions they “self produced a reality tv show about their life and work’.

If not enough red flags already, massive one there!!

I would love to see this show be screened, but not sure if it's reality or comedy

[etrader]

Definitely all smokes and mirrors where they rented a house in arrowtown short term to stage that plus they were renting in Auckland also to stage that side.

This ipo is just converting debt they can’t repay to shares which will be hard to move

Another mid level property business who live of cashflow to have a show lifestyle while investors bleed

Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole


I would love to see this show be screened, but not sure if it's reality or comedy

[SPC]

IPO def. Investors Probably Outsmarted
Alt: Invariably Poor Outcome

[ValueNZ]

IPO def. Investors Probably Outsmarted
Alt: Invariably Poor Outcome

It's Probably Overpriced

[GTM 3442]

So as the pool of listed companies slowly shrinks, is this the future for the NZX?

[Sideshow Bob]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-group-was-technically-insolvent-last-september?utm_source=7am+Headlines+from+BusinessDe sk&utm_campaign=0bfdaae461-7am+Headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_617c2ef34a-0bfdaae461-402467359

(Paywalled)

Saying they were technically insolvent last September.

[nztx]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-group-was-technically-insolvent-last-september?utm_source=7am+Headlines+from+BusinessDe sk&utm_campaign=0bfdaae461-7am+Headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_617c2ef34a-0bfdaae461-402467359

(Paywalled)

Saying they were technically insolvent last September.


That's after this:


Feb 2023:

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-converts-mortgage-fund-ahead-of-nzx-float

Du Val converts mortgage fund ahead of NZX float


and this:

Mar 2023:

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/for-du-val-protecting-investors-also-means-keeping-them-quiet

For Du Val, 'protecting investors' also means keeping them quiet


and this:

28 Mar 2023:

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/shell-shocked-du-val-investors-ponder-options

Shell shocked Du Val investors ponder options


(All paywalled)

But past indications on just how "Other Peoples Money" has fared ;)

[thedrunkfish]

This isnt his first rodeo either. https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/business/3142399/Developers-luxury-home-in-forced-sale

[troyvdh]

What really saddens me is how many people continue to entertain this dog poo entity.
Its gone burger ...I lost a lot through the 80s !
RJI cost me 30k.
I can understand why people avoid the SM...

[nztx]

When preparing for listing - keeping the cupboard clean & the china sparkling & tidy is prerequisite

With some outfits - it doesn't take too much digging to unearth reports of recent & past reports

How far is news of an earlier financial calamities, unpaid tradies screaming, investors getting screwed into a
corner .. while the bigwigs ponce around in a gleaming Rolls on pie in the sky aspirations as if nothing has
happened looking for dough to lever out of a spot .. heading into troubled times going to take things ? ;)

Money in da bank at north of 6% looks a pretty inviting option .. in current times looking ahead :)

[Grimy]

When preparing for listing - keeping the cupboard clean & the china sparkling & tidy is prerequisite

With some outfits - it doesn't take too much digging to unearth reports of recent & past reports

How far is news of an earlier financial calamities, unpaid tradies screaming, investors getting screwed into a
corner .. while the bigwigs ponce around in a gleaming Rolls on pie in the sky aspirations as if nothing has
happened looking for dough to lever out of a spot .. heading into troubled times going to take things ? ;)

Money in da bank at north of 6% looks a pretty inviting option .. in current times looking ahead :)
You've seen the Reddit comments too?..........

[troyvdh]

Actually....Who is ultimately responsible here...Why on earth do the regulatory authorities allow this to occur.....again.
I reckon Brian Gaynor ..bless him...would be greatly saddened that the SM again is well being ...sullied.

[nztx]

You've seen the Reddit comments too?..........


Comments on there too ? Must have a looksie..

[troyvdh]

nztx....With respect you are a legend....How old are you...good luck with the "looksie" cheers troy.

[nztx]

How is NZX Listing going down with the bundle of investors under ? -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/du-val-group-was-technically-insolvent-last-september/X2HXIM5S75DD3INAYFOBUILEHE/


The offer is structured to try to force investors, who have had interest payments frozen since October 2022, to swap their outstanding loans to the company to shares, effectively moving debt into equity.

The Auckland property developer and non-deposit taker is offering 200 million $2 shares to convert lenders’ debt from investors in its mortgage and build-to-rent (BTR) funds to equity in a restructured Du Val Property Group.



The 83 investors in the mortgage fund had each put in at least $250,000, with several having invested much of their savings into the funds as a supposed safe haven, yielding a quarterly cash distribution at an annual interest rate of 10 per cent.



These poor suckers have been frozen out of their 10% Interest Income since Oct 2022, if the Article is correct

Trying to force them to convert into Shares instead ?


Sounds pretty bl**dy rough for those who might be reliant on Interest for Income, while the Top Brass float around in a luxury vehicle unaffected as if nothing has happened, painting up grandiose Pie in Sky portrayals of the future .. to try to drag in further Capital ;)


Why not organise the Float so they are FULLY paid out instead out of the proceeds ? or too difficult ? ;)

Fancy trying to talk potential NZX Float, but leaving this sort of nonsense on the table and thinking this bundle of investors might still like the ride and risk after being skrewed on how much Interest - which is then further locked in in additional % percentage ? ;)

Must be pretty desperate to want to Float things and to have to want to try force those Investors onboard as well ? What could possibly go wrong ? ;)


Why not just pay them out ? .. Offshore lenders not keen on the idea or not enough readies in Kitty to do that and pay out their frozen interest due .. and deal with the alleged unpaid tradies as well ? ;)

Or maybe it fair bu%%ers up the grandiose 'Build a Development Empire Plan' too badly ? ;)


Of course if the 'investors in "its mortgage and build-to-rent (BTR) funds" have had to suffer a freeze of their interest payments since Oct 2022 - then WTF is going on ?


Where's the dough going ? Are the satellite Funds solvent ? Is there a Shortfall to these Investors ? ;)

The property markets have had their best runs through to 2022 & likely further leaps ahead & this outfit should have reaped the fruits as well .. What all of a sudden happened to trigger the interest freeze to investors from Oct 2022 ?

Somewhere within the Empire - a fair stash of filthy lucre must have been made & it still must be looking at making a fair filthy pile more -- otherwise there wouldn't be grandiose future plans being thrown around, word of all the untold new developments, an NZX listing etc .. let's face it if it were the reverse scenario instead, then it would likely be curtains period and no-one would be flying around doing fancy photo shots, glitzy wheels .. Look at us shots - etc - a fair & reasonable stance isn't it ;)


How much is owed to the Investors satellite funds by the Company / Group ?


If there is bad news instore for the investors in the satellite funds, then why haven't Administrators / Receivers been put in place to protect the interests of those Investors ? ;)

[SPC]

Maybe the name should be Devour?

[troyvdh]

FFFFffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[nztx]

https://thelawassociation.nz/fma-hammers-du-val-group-investors-leak-to-media/

FMA hammers Du Val Group, investors leak to media


16.3.23



Reprimands from the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) are piling up against Du Val Group, while the embattled property developer scrambles to block disaffected investors from leaking to the media.

The regulator issued Du Val Capital Partners (DVCP), the general partner of the Du Val Mortgage Fund and Du Val Group, a formal warning last week for misleading investors about its suspension of cash distributions from the mortgage fund in January. In the FMA’s view, Du Val breached s 19 of the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013.

Complaints were made to the FMA after the suspension. Investors had been told the fund would be wound up and the cash distributions converted into units at a 25% premium to be placed in a new company, pending a potential public listing on the NZ Stock Exchange or an alternate.

FMA executive director (response and enforcement) Paul Gregory says this was misleading as the payments were suspended because Du Val’s board could not approve cash distributions as it would leave the company unable to meet its other obligations. And, Gregory says, the proposal to convert cash distributions into units in the fund is not permitted under the terms of the limited partnership agreement governing the investment and investors were not obliged to accept that decision.

Du Val Capital Partners, in a brief statement, says it is disappointed the FMA has issued a public warning against the company for a direct communication made to a small group of investors. “The fund is closed and the communications have no relevance to the New Zealand public. Investors have received further communication to clarify statements that may have been misunderstood,” the statement said.

DVCP sold units under its mortgage fund to wholesale investors over the past two years at a minimum buy-in of $250,000. The units are backed by a portfolio of nine South Auckland apartment developments valued by Du Val at $750 million. The investment offered a fixed return of 10% per year, paid quarterly, equating to cash distributions of $2.5 million per quarter or $10 million per year. Most of the investors relied on the fund’s interest payments.

One elderly investor, who has $800,000 in the mortgage fund and leaked information to BusinessDesk, was this week reminded of his obligations by Du Val’s senior legal counsel Matthew Hawkes, who advised the investor to “keep all information relating to the business” confidential under the terms of the limited partnership agreement. Du Val says all investors are bound by non-disclosure agreements.

Hawkes told the investor the company required him to remedy the ‘breach’ immediately by, amongst other things, destroying confidential information leaked to BusinessDesk. Requests to exit the fund have got investors nowhere. In further leaked information to BusinessDesk, Du Val general manager of investor relations Glen Williams told investors the company continues to priortise funds for the completion of projects and the protection of investor funds. “Redemptions will be considered as part of the upcoming liquidity events on the terms of the limited partnership agreement,” he said. No details of the liquidity events have been given.


More at Link



https://www.interest.co.nz/investing/120258/financial-markets-authority-issues-formal-warning-du-val-group-misleading

Financial Markets Authority issues formal warning to Du Val group for misleading investors over why it suspended cash distributions


23.3.2023



The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) has issued property development firm Du Val Capital Partners with a formal warning for misleading investors over the suspension of cash distributions.

Du Val halted cash payments from its Mortgage Fund in January this year, telling investors it was looking to restructure the fund ahead of a potential listing on the NZX or another stock market.

Cash distributions promised to investors would instead be converted into units in the fund at a 25% premium.

The FMA said investors were told the cash payments had been suspended in the context of this restructure. But this was misleading, as it was actually because paying out to investors would leave the company unable to pay other liabilities.

In essence, the regulator said Du Val didn’t have enough cash to pay investors and all its other costs — and so had suspended distributions.

Paul Gregory, the FMA’s executive director of response and enforcement, said investors in Du Val’s Mortgage Fund had not been given enough information to properly accept or reject the proposal.

“In particular, investors were misled about the reason Du Val has suspended the prominently advertised cash distributions, which was because Du Val’s Board could not approve a cash distribution which would leave the fund unable to meet its other obligations.”

Also, investors were not obligated to accept the decision, as the proposal was not permitted under the terms of the limited partnership agreement governing the investment.

The regulator said Du Val’s statements may have been misleading or deceptive, because investors were not informed of the underlying reason the board had suspended and capitalised distributions.

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300827109/du-val-issued-with-formal-warning-over-misleading-statements

Du Val issued with formal warning over 'misleading' statements


10.3.2023



Du Val Capital Partners has been issued with a warning over what the Financial Markets Authority says are misleading or deceptive statements made to investors in the Du Val Mortgage Fund.

Du Val is a property development company. In recent years, it has offered investors a 10% return a year in its mortgage fund, with a $250,000 minimum investment.

But investors have since had their money locked in while plans were finalised for a listing on the stock exchange.

The Financial Markets Authority said Du Val Capital Partners and Du Val Group might have breached the Financial Markets Conduct Act by engaging in misleading or deceptive conduct, in its communication about that decision.

[nztx]

https://www.fma.govt.nz/news/all-releases/media-releases/fma-warns-du-val-capital-partners-limited-over-misleading-or-deceptive-statements-to-investors-in-the-du-val-mortgage-fund/

FMA warns Du Val Capital Partners Limited over misleading or deceptive statements to investors in the Du Val Mortgage Fund


10.3.2023


FMA Release at link

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/du-val-negotiating-to-resume-investor-payments/MDRJ3QOCQ5EQTAKR2VZQXQLBWY/

Du Val negotiating to resume investor payments


12.4.2023




Residential property developer Du Val Capital Partners is working to reassure investors that its build-to-rent fund has adequate reserves to meet its obligations, BusinessDesk reports.

Du Val’s manager of investor relations, Ben Good, said that directors are now focusing on “financial modelling” to ensure that sufficient reserves are maintained to meet obligations.

Last month the Financial Markets Authority warned the company about misleading and deceptive statements to investors in its mortgage fund.

The regulator said investors may have been given a misleading impression of the reasons for Du Val suspending cash distributions on the fund and proposing instead to convert cash distributions into units, pending a potential public listing.

[nztx]

And so - Mortgage Fund Investors appear to be continuing to suffer an Interest Payout freeze


The matter of repayment or otherwise of Mortgage Fund Investors continues to remain outstanding


The FMA may be be continuing to watch in respect of the Mortgage Fund Investors

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/745739/Bust-firms-owe-50m

Bust firms owe $50m


31 Jan 2009



A Hamilton property developer who sources say owes more than $50 million to the Bank of Scotland International is adamant he will not "roll over and die" over the debts.

The Waikato Times revealed yesterday that mother and son Jenepher and Kenyon Clarke, developers of many Hamilton studio apartment properties, had at least 12 of their companies placed in receivership on Friday.

Many of the units they have built and rent are well tenanted - with CTC trainee pilots and hospital staff living in both the Peachgrove Rd and Knox St apartment owned by their companies.

The Waikato Times spoke to Mr Clarke yesterday at the Newstead house he shares with his mother. Mr Clarke said that all the businesses were still running and he was working with his advisers to recover the situation.

"I think the situation is retrievable or else I might as well f--- off or roll over and die."

Mr Clarke has more than 27 companies listed with the Companies Office and 12 were placed in receivership last week under the instructions of the Bank of Scotland. It is understood that Mr Clarke was several hundred thousand dollars behind in interest payments.

Mrs Clarke's silver Jaguar and Mr Clarke's black Range Rover were in the driveway, but a black Ferrari, which the Times understands is in the midst of being repossessed, was not.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/spy-high-roller-property-developers-head-for-singapore-and-fiji/6WYUVS6TK4DIM6FLP4WYUMQYMA/

Spy: High-roller property developers head for Singapore and Fiji


7 May 2022


One of New Zealand's most successful high-flying property couples have left Auckland to set up their global headquarters in Singapore and eventually settle their family in a luxury gated community in Fiji.

Kenyon Clarke, CEO of property company Du Val Group, and wife Charlotte, who is the company's COO, packed up their clifftop Remuera home early this week and headed for Singapore to launch their Du Val Group International strategy.

The couple are known for splashing the cash on luxury lodges, expensive cars (including a Rolls-Royce Phantom,) private jets and chopper rides, not to mention creating a property developing reality show last year yet to be screened.

According to its website, the Du Val Group is valued at $750 million and the Clarkes don't plan to stop there. Plans include property development in New Zealand, Australia and the UK, with Singapore as the hub for the operation.

The couple, now searching for Singapore office space, plan to relocate Du Val's head office there within the next 11 months. Several of the company's key executives will also relocate to Singapore. The Clarkes tell Spy that although they will no longer live in New Zealand, they consider themselves very much Kiwis and hope to take a little Kiwi ingenuity to the rest of the world.

Du Val's business in New Zealand will remain a core focus for the group, they say, run by a management team in Auckland, who will routinely visit the Singaporean head office to keep business operations running seamlessly across the two markets.

[nztx]

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/09/work-stops-on-big-du-val-site-as-contractors-threaten-legal-action/

Work stops on big Du Val site as contractors threaten legal action


9 Feb 2024

[whatsup]

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/09/work-stops-on-big-du-val-site-as-contractors-threaten-legal-action/

Work stops on big Du Val site as contractors threaten legal action


9 Feb 2024

IMHO this is a really sad situation for a N Z home builder, we , N Z inc need risk takers who are willing and able to build what is necessary to help home other N Zers, I truly hope that this does not finish in tears.
Yes they look like a power couple and possible should have kept their heads down and not believe their own p r but that not a reason why we should want ill will of them. There is nothing wrong with success surely we need that and the people who have the courage to try and keep trying again and again.

As the great Martin crow said , " only weeds grow under tall poppies " !!.

[malreid]

This is already finishing in tears for investors and unfortunately that seems to be a pattern with this 'internally focused management group' (that's as nicely as I can phrase it without appearing personal...)

[Aaron]

Article in the herald this morning, maybe business desk as I cannot see it online. Interesting that they felt "market value" rather than "cost" was the better way to value stock on hand.

Are these the sort of businesses easy money and high immigration are creating?

Damn missed out on a listing but at least their bondholders get the chance to turn their bonds into worthless shares.

[nztx]

Article in the herald this morning, maybe business desk as I cannot see it online. Interesting that they felt "market value" rather than "cost" was the better way to value stock on hand.

Are these the sort of businesses easy money and high immigration are creating?

Damn missed out on a listing but at least their bondholders get the chance to turn their bonds into worthless shares.


A two edged sword valuing at Market value - recognises losses but can inflate & recognise gains ahead of them moving / selling for those with a margin in the making- doesn't sound very conservative booking gains ahead of sale tho ;)

If this outfit were really making piles then would there be a looming issue in the background with investors having their ears nailed to the wall & locked in ? ;)

[troyvdh]

Woof.....gnarl

[nztx]

Ooops .. and Chris Lee has made mention of the said business model now :)

[nztx]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-investors-aim-to-liquidate-mortgage-fund

Du Val investors aim to liquidate mortgage fund


That could put the grandiose plans fair & squarely in the Du Du for good ;)

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/a/nz-news/350219409/du-vals-high-flying-owners-charlotte-kenyon-clarke-front-criticise

Du Val’s high-flying owners Charlotte, Kenyon Clarke front up to criticism


Meanwhile Lawyers are reportedly at work moving towards getting Corporate Undertakers with Liquidation shears in hand chasing the Mortgage Fund ;)

What could possibly go wrong ? ;)

[kiora]

Not for me EVER

But obviously they wouldn't have wanted to call it the "Pear Shaped Holdings" would they?

"What's in a name? Du Val now Orange Pineapple"

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/whats-in-a-name-du-val-now-orange-pineapple?utm_source=7am+Headlines+from+BusinessDe sk&utm_campaign=eca367a99d-7am+Headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_617c2ef34a-eca367a99d-446239310

[whatsup]

Todays ann not good !!

[kiora]

Poor investors,pear shaped?

[Toddy]

About time!

Reality TV at its best.

[whatsup]

IMHO this is a really sad situation for a N Z home builder, we , N Z inc need risk takers who are willing and able to build what is necessary to help home other N Zers, I truly hope that this does not finish in tears.
Yes they look like a power couple and possible should have kept their heads down and not believe their own p r but that not a reason why we should want ill will of them. There is nothing wrong with success surely we need that and the people who have the courage to try and keep trying again and again.

As the great Martin crow said , " only weeds grow under tall poppies " !!.

So very sad for all concerned, N Z needs those of us who are ready to risk our hard earned in order to supply the needy of N Z with what this country needs or else we will be under the decisions of the govt, sad so very sad, I truly hope that all in not lost and something can be salvaged from this outfit and the investors are not wiped out ?

[kiora]

Dito>Dito>Dito

[Toddy]

So very sad for all concerned, N Z needs those of us who are ready to risk our hard earned in order to supply the needy of N Z with what this country needs or else we will be under the decisions of the govt, sad so very sad, I truly hope that all in not lost and something can be salvaged from this outfit and the investors are not wiped out ?

Wolf of Wall Street stuff. The FMA needed Police Protection when carrying out the warrants.

What does that tell you?

[Balance]

Wolf of Wall Street stuff. The FMA needed Police Protection when carrying out the warrants.

What does that tell you?

Agreed.

Set up a property development company during boom time, pump up the hype, get the investors in to fund the hype, pay multi-million dollars in fees and more fees, live the high life and walk away scot-free when it all come crashing down.

[whatsup]

Agreed.

Set up a property development company during boom time, pump up the hype, get the investors in to fund the hype, pay multi-million dollars in fees and more fees, live the high life and walk away scot-free when it all come crashing down.

Didnt know of the wrort, where is the evidence of this ?

Where does the down turn leave the William Corp ?

[troyvdh]

Like who would have thought ...woof woof gnarl woof.

[Balance]

Have a read of this and reflect on just how many collapses there had been for property/finance companies in NZ over the decades. And they keep happening and the ‘investors’ keep losing.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/blue-chips-mark-bryers-arrested-in-a17m-fraud-probe

[troyvdh]

Again and again...risk and reward.

[malreid]

Technically insolvent for 10-11 months before any real action is taken. No wonder this sort of thing is on a repeat cycle.

[Balance]

Technically insolvent for 10-11 months before any real action is taken. No wonder this sort of thing is on a repeat cycle.

Millions of dollars at their disposal to hire the best lawyers to take on the FMA. And where do the millions of dollars come from? Investors’ monies! Don’t you just love our regulatory and corporate system?

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350364976/du-val-placed-interim-receivership-request-financial-markets-authority

Du Val placed into interim receivership at request of Financial Markets Authority

Not surprising, given the games that were playing out with Investors funds

The corporate undertakers firesale will reveal what - a further shower of much red ink & large scale losses ? ;)

[thedrunkfish]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350364976/du-val-placed-interim-receivership-request-financial-markets-authority

Du Val placed into interim receivership at request of Financial Markets Authority

Not surprising, given the games that were playing out with Investors funds

The corporate undertakers firesale will reveal what - a further shower of much red ink & large scale losses ? ;)

I hope that all the investors, subbies etc are able to get their money back, but experience tells me this wont be the case.

[Balance]

I hope that all the investors, subbies etc are able to get their money back, but experience tells me this wont be the case.

Hope is the operative word here.

Most of the money imo is long gone - into ever more expensive & uneconomical developments and paying 10% pa to investors who believed the 1st mortgage security & property hype. Music stopped.

[Toddy]

FBU is never too far from trouble. I wonder what their exposure (unpaid debts) are to this 1000 apartment building empire.

We have seen all of this before. The culprits normally end up living abroad, on the Gold Coast or in Bali working on their suntan throwing back cocktails.

And a number of investors lose everything including their health. The 'registered' financial advisors who sold them these high risk products keep their heads down and retire to the golf course in Queenstown.

Have I covered it? Or is this time different.

[blackcap]

FBU is never too far from trouble. I wonder what their exposure (unpaid debts) are to this 1000 apartment building empire.

We have seen all of this before. The culprits normally end up living abroad, on the Gold Coast or in Bali working on their suntan throwing back cocktails.

And a number of investors lose everything including their health. The 'registered' financial advisors who sold them these high risk products keep their heads down and retire to the golf course in Queenstown.

Have I covered it? Or is this time different.

Sounds pretty right about there. How do you fix this? There is the old caveat emptor. It is the financial advisors that need to be held to account, if they knew this outfit was dodgy.

[tim23]

So very sad for all concerned, N Z needs those of us who are ready to risk our hard earned in order to supply the needy of N Z with what this country needs or else we will be under the decisions of the govt, sad so very sad, I truly hope that all in not lost and something can be salvaged from this outfit and the investors are not wiped out ?

Supplying the needy? Were they some kind of charity? Did I miss something?

[Toddy]

Sounds pretty right about there. How do you fix this? There is the old caveat emptor. It is the financial advisors that need to be held to account, if they knew this outfit was dodgy.

Nothing has really changed. The guys down at the golf course selling these so called financial products are still salesmen and not financial minded people. I've saved a number of older people from investing in very suspect property unit funds being sold at the golf club.

It's very concerning, but you cannot do anything about it because they are not breaking the law. And they love preying on women after marriage breakups and taking advantage of their financial naivety.

[blackcap]

Nothing has really changed. The guys down at the golf course selling these so called financial products are still salesmen and not financial minded people. I've saved a number of older people from investing in very suspect property unit funds being sold at the golf club.

It's very concerning, but you cannot do anything about it because they are not breaking the law. And they love preying on women after marriage breakups and taking advantage of their financial naivety.

I know the type you talk about. I was once in the industry. They problem is they get their "accreditation" and papers but don't really understand finance. They are there just to get commission.

Quite possibly we need to get rid of the commision system on products, I thought to an extent that happened after the GFC.

The problem is that even the good financial advisors, ie Chris Lee (Paraparaumu) get caught out and lost money for people during the GFC, but I suppose their intentions were good.

It is a continuing conundrum and I guess gullible people who have financial naivety will always be parted with their money, be it from dodgy financial advisors or other means.

[Toddy]

They will be busy right now selling convertible notes at 10 percent in Cannonsouth and collecting their commission.

Yeah, it's not our problem. But does make me feel very sad for those Joe Blogg good kiwi folks that lose money and sleep from getting caught up..

[blackcap]

They will be busy right now selling convertible notes at 10 percent in Cannonsouth and collecting their commission.

Yeah, it's not our problem. But does make me feel very sad for those Joe Blogg good kiwi folks that lose money and sleep from getting caught up..

I also feel sad for them, the average Kiwi, but there is nothing you can put in place to stop this from happening, unless you really tighten up the regulations and then you end up stifling enterprise.

I guess the old adage, if its too good to be true, it probably is, is one every person should consider.

Getting rid of commissions on financial products would be a good start, but who in reality is going to use a financial advisor if they have to pay them $350 per hour up front in fees. That's the conundrum. You do want people to use advisors but most won't if they have to stump up with the funds in cash.

[troyvdh]

Sorry...seriously posting a shot of a Rolls Royce alone would have sent a message !!!!!!!

[nztx]

Sorry...seriously posting a shot of a Rolls Royce alone would have sent a message !!!!!!!

The glossed up photoshots & fancy Vids of the big time "We are" while a bunch of investors were left in the cold might have done it too :)

Wonder how much is owing on the Rolls or has it been repossessed already on Receiver's instructions ? ;)

Might be a long way to walk for the weekends fancy entertainment now ..

Might have to sell off some of the fancy bling & jewellery for a taxi fare ..

Or is that all subject to the official Court freeze over the personal assets as well ? ;)

[troyvdh]

Sorry...seriously posting a shot of a Rolls Royce alone would have sent a message !!!!!!!

Sorry blackcap ...seriously the average kiwi....yes there is something you can put in place to stop this from happening.

Regulations yes....how about Education ..financial literacy to be taught at schools for a starter...

[blackcap]

Sorry...seriously posting a shot of a Rolls Royce alone would have sent a message !!!!!!!

Sorry blackcap ...seriously the average kiwi....yes there is something you can put in place to stop this from happening.

Regulations yes....how about Education ..financial literacy to be taught at schools for a starter...

The financial literacy in NZ is sadly lacking. In fact it is shocking. So yes financial literacy should be taught in schools. The problem is, I don't really think any of our school teachers are up to this to be honest. Most of them suck at financial literacy themselves.

But Education education education is the key and if somehow we can get this ingrained that would be great. Sure would be more worthwhile then some of the other rubbish that is being offered at schools.

[nztx]

I guess the old adage, if its too good to be true, it probably is, is one every person should consider.




Aint that so very true .. especially when what has come out accompanied by the fancy accounts of the "Hob Nobbers" of town trying to put across the "All is fine" imagery ..

[Balance]

The financial literacy in NZ is sadly lacking. In fact it is shocking. So yes financial literacy should be taught in schools. The problem is, I don't really think any of our school teachers are up to this to be honest. Most of them suck at financial literacy themselves.

But Education education education is the key and if somehow we can get this ingrained that would be great. Sure would be more worthwhile then some of the other rubbish that is being offered at schools.

Financial education in Te reo Maori, incorporating Maori view of the financial and banking system in 1800 - that will solve all of NZ’s financial literacy problems!

Just like Adrian Orr has adopted Maori view of the financial system. Oops - bad example as he has fxxked up the RBNZ!

https://www.bis.org/review/r220614b.htm

[troyvdh]

Oh Balance ...you radical...tread carefully mate ....just saying.

[tim23]

Sorry...seriously posting a shot of a Rolls Royce alone would have sent a message !!!!!!!
Just looked at their promo - “Wide Boy” comes to
mind…

[blackcap]

Financial education in Te reo Maori, incorporating Maori view of the financial and banking system in 1800 - that will solve all of NZ’s financial literacy problems!


https://www.bis.org/review/r220614b.htm

The scary reality is Balance, there are plenty of doo gooders out there that actually believe such things.

[tim23]

The glossed up photoshots & fancy Vids of the big time "We are" while a bunch of investors were left in the cold might have done it too :)

Wonder how much is owing on the Rolls or has it been repossessed already on Receiver's instructions ? ;)

Might be a long way to walk for the weekends fancy entertainment now ..

Might have to sell off some of the fancy bling & jewellery for a taxi fare ..

Or is that all subject to the official Court freeze over the personal assets as well ? ;)

I concur but you forgot the personalised plates!!

[troyvdh]

Seriously do any posters here actually know anyone who invested in Du Val.
Like life is short ...in reality "no right no wrong"

Like what was the primary motivation...the return or the wish to appear successful.

[Balance]

Seriously do any posters here actually know anyone who invested in Du Val.
Like life is short ...in reality "no right no wrong"

Like what was the primary motivation...the return or the wish to appear successful.

I was asked about investing in their first mortgage secured fund 3 years ago. I emailed them for their investment statement. One had to certify that one was a wholesale and/or professional investor.

Next thing you know, they were harassing me with phone calls (which I refused to answer until I received the statement) and follow up emails. Bad bad sign.

So I never ever received their investment statement!

[troyvdh]

Balance ..with respect ...Why would you have even bothered...Like I can dish up a investment statement in 3 minutes ?

And wow you were harassed with calls until you recievied the statement .

Well bugger me what a surprise ....totally out of left field eh.

Im sorry I dont wish to come across as a know all ahole ...Like Im perfect ok...

[thedrunkfish]

Balance ..with respect ...Why would you have even bothered...Like I can dish up a investment statement in 3 minutes ?

And wow you were harassed with calls until you recievied the statement .

Well bugger me what a surprise ....totally out of left field eh.

Im sorry I dont wish to come across as a know all ahole ...Like Im perfect ok...

You been on the gins mate?

[Toddy]

Another article on Business Desk. Now the elderly Mother stories are starting to come out.

Heart breaking..

[stoploss]

Should rename the thread ... De Val....

[Balance]

Balance ..with respect ...Why would you have even bothered...Like I can dish up a investment statement in 3 minutes ?

And wow you were harassed with calls until you recievied the statement .

Well bugger me what a surprise ....totally out of left field eh.

Im sorry I dont wish to come across as a know all ahole ...Like Im perfect ok...

Eh …I did it as a favour for a doctor friend.

And I never received their investment statement. They left a message that they would like to talk to me first etc etc.

[Balance]

Another article on Business Desk. Now the elderly Mother stories are starting to come out.

Heart breaking..

Only wholesale, professional, habitual and experienced investors were supposed to be able to invest in the mortgage fund. Something smells very very badly if there are indeed ‘elderly mothers’ putting their monies with the fund.

[troyvdh]

It gets worse "I did it as favour for a doctor friend"

Perhaps the best advice to your friend would have been "alert alert alert'....ignore investment statement ....and hang up if "they" ring you.

For gods sake Balance

And you are a "legend"

[Balance]

It gets worse "I did it as favour for a doctor friend"

Perhaps the best advice to your friend would have been "alert alert alert'....ignore investment statement ....and hang up if "they" ring you.

For gods sake Balance

And you are a "legend"

Haha …. A legend in one’s own imagination!

[malreid]

Just like Adrian Orr has adopted Maori view of the financial system.


"With that light, Tāne Māhuta the kaitiaki of the forest and birds, enabled life to thrive. The Reserve Bank is akin to the being Tāne Mahuta of New Zealand's financial landscape."

I guess Reserve Bank dieback disease will put an end to that then. It's actually an interesting read, if you like to see the lengths an organisation will go to get on board with kind of thing. Shame us taxpayers had to pay the consulting and workgroup fees. Anyway, time for for someone to put this thread back on track...

[whatsup]

Supplying the needy? Were they some kind of charity? Did I miss something?

We have all started off in starter homes unless you were from wealthy families who " GAVE " you your first shelter, what these guys were doing was to try and provide starter homes of some sort to the residences of N Z , sure they got carried away with their personal excesses, they now have paid the ultimate price , bankruptcy .
Most of us aspire to some bling but can constrain ourselves.

My point is we need rick takers in N Z or else it will be left to the govt of this country to decide where we live and in what kind of residence, they as builders were risk takers as were the mums and dads who lent them their hard earned.

Let the first perfect man/woman cast the first stone.

Remember Martin Crows famous comment, " only weeds grow under tall poppies ".

[tim23]

We have all started off in starter homes unless you were from wealthy families who " GAVE " you your first shelter, what these guys were doing was to try and provide starter homes of some sort to the residences of N Z , sure they got carried away with their personal excesses, they now have paid the ultimate price , bankruptcy .
Most of us aspire to some bling but can constrain ourselves.

My point is we need rick takers in N Z or else it will be left to the govt of this country to decide where we live and in what kind of residence, they as builders were risk takers as were the mums and dads who lent them their hard earned.

Let the first perfect man/woman cast the first stone.

Remember Martin Crows famous comment, " only weeds grow under tall poppies ".
Give me a break - this guy was a show pony. But I agree that developers are essential to the real estate market.

[Daytr]

Police were used to secure evidence, so it suggests this debacle is going down the path of a criminality.

[tim23]

Police were used to secure evidence, so it suggests this debacle is going down the path of a criminality.
Yes I’m guessing the Police have good reason- feel for tradies who will likely be caught short.

[kiora]

Police were used to secure evidence, so it suggests this debacle is going down the path of a criminality.

OR

Maybe saying just as much about the FMA as Du Val?

Investors can only hope its handled better than SCF !!!

Scales sold for $34m,following year

The 2013 year has been an exceptional one for the Scales Group with a record profit after tax of $20.4m. This is a
50% increase on the 2012 result. Other financial highlights for the year include:
• Total revenue of $278.1m is up 17.2% on 2012. This is largely due to an increase in revenue in the Horticulture
division, reflecting higher apple volumes and prices, plus the first full year of the new air freight operation, Balance
Cargo.
• EBITDA of $44.4m is up 34.4% on 2012, again largely due to the strong result from the Horticulture division.

https://scalescorporation.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Annual-Report-Dec-2013.pdf

[Toddy]

OR

Maybe saying just as much about the FMA as Du Val?

Investors can only hope its handled better than SCF !!!

Scales sold for $34m,following year

The 2013 year has been an exceptional one for the Scales Group with a record profit after tax of $20.4m. This is a
50% increase on the 2012 result. Other financial highlights for the year include:
• Total revenue of $278.1m is up 17.2% on 2012. This is largely due to an increase in revenue in the Horticulture
division, reflecting higher apple volumes and prices, plus the first full year of the new air freight operation, Balance
Cargo.
• EBITDA of $44.4m is up 34.4% on 2012, again largely due to the strong result from the Horticulture division.

https://scalescorporation.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Annual-Report-Dec-2013.pdf

Really, SCF was a different story and the outcome should have been very different.

Let's see the first report from the receivers looks like in a couple of weeks.

Im guessing people will be shocked and that there will be ZERO cents in the dollar to pay out to investors.

I feel sorry for the ones that got sucked in. But feel no sympathy if any regular posters on here invested. Everyone had been warned and if you ever invest in property outside of your own individual investments then you do it with someone who has a large shareholder base (RYM). So that when things get tough they can have a capital raise and find another billion.

[hogie]

Du Val was an obvious scam from the start

[Toddy]

Du Val was an obvious scam from the start

Did the Bank of Scotland get its $50 million back last time Clarke went bankrupt.

He even took the door handles and bathroom chattles from his house before it was reprocessed.

Maybe that's why the Police are involved from day one this time.

I will keep an eye out for a Rolls cruising around Remers with gold plated bathroom sinks in the back seat.

[Balance]

We have all started off in starter homes unless you were from wealthy families who " GAVE " you your first shelter, what these guys were doing was to try and provide starter homes of some sort to the residences of N Z , sure they got carried away with their personal excesses, they now have paid the ultimate price , bankruptcy .
Most of us aspire to some bling but can constrain ourselves.

My point is we need rick takers in N Z or else it will be left to the govt of this country to decide where we live and in what kind of residence, they as builders were risk takers as were the mums and dads who lent them their hard earned.

Let the first perfect man/woman cast the first stone.

Remember Martin Crows famous comment, " only weeds grow under tall poppies ".

Agree with you 100% we need and must have risk takers in NZ.

And there are many developers around who risk their capital, day in, week out and year after year, with funding from banks - delivering housing without risking other people’s/investors’ funds by paying them 10% secured by ‘first mortgages’.

The 10% is already a huge red flag when banks had been funding good developments with first mortgages at 6.5% to 7.5% during 2020 to 2023.

I can name several developers risking hundreds of millions of dollars off the top of my head including one ex-banker who teamed up with one of NZ’s top retailers to deliver hundreds of houses to KO and CHPs.

There’s no tall poppy here with Du Val Group imo - only the weeds growing under the shadow of a property boom. Watch them enjoy life as they already have been while the investors suck on their greed or naivety for the 10% secured first mortgage investment.

So yes, you can say I am casting the first stone. Let’s not try to make heroes of an ex bankrupt who has obviously learnt nothing (to put it bluntly and kindly) from the first experience of losing other peoples’ monies.

[Balance]

OR

Maybe saying just as much about the FMA as Du Val?

Investors can only hope its handled better than SCF !!!

Scales sold for $34m,following year

The 2013 year has been an exceptional one for the Scales Group with a record profit after tax of $20.4m. This is a
50% increase on the 2012 result. Other financial highlights for the year include:
• Total revenue of $278.1m is up 17.2% on 2012. This is largely due to an increase in revenue in the Horticulture
division, reflecting higher apple volumes and prices, plus the first full year of the new air freight operation, Balance
Cargo.
• EBITDA of $44.4m is up 34.4% on 2012, again largely due to the strong result from the Horticulture division.

https://scalescorporation.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Annual-Report-Dec-2013.pdf

The FMA was rightly involved in investigating and charging several SCF directors and associated parties over the spectacular SCF collapse and the revelations of the fraudulent and totally irresponsible loans and investments made by SCF.

SCF was a gigantic scam perpetuated on depositors who trusted the totally incompetent late Alan Hubbard (in his later years) with hundreds of millions of dollars. He was basically giving out loans & making investments like Santa Claus with nothing more than a handshake in many instances! Taxpayers had to bail out SCF, remember?

The liquidator did a poor job disposing off some assets like Scales but that had nothing to do with the FMA.

I also agree the FMA under Plane Jane (appointed by Clark government) was an ineffectual useless authority which presided over the collapses of the finance companies without firing a single warning shot!

[whatsup]

I wouldnt be surprised to see the Chou Bros/Stonewood Homes have a talk to the receivers !, Heaven forbid !!

[tim23]

The FMA was rightly involved in investigating and charging several SCF directors and associated parties over the spectacular SCF collapse and the revelations of the fraudulent and totally irresponsible loans and investments made by SCF.

SCF was a gigantic scam perpetuated on depositors who trusted the totally incompetent late Alan Hubbard (in his later years) with hundreds of millions of dollars. He was basically giving out loans & making investments like Santa Claus with nothing more than a handshake in many instances! Taxpayers had to bail out SCF, remember?

The liquidator did a poor job disposing off some assets like Scales but that had nothing to do with the FMA.

I also agree the FMA under Plane Jane (appointed by Clark government) was an ineffectual useless authority which presided over the collapses of the finance companies without firing a single warning shot!

Quite right not to mention McLeods exit package $750k) and having a $15 million loan written off - shameful.

[Balance]

Quite right not to mention McLeods exit package $750k) and having a $15 million loan written off - shameful.

McLeod came to Auckland during the GFC, swaggering like he was a financial Mike Tyson. He was going to show NZers and Aucklanders how to do business!

Meanwhile, SCF was rotting from the inside out!

[tim23]

McLeod came to Auckland during the GFC, swaggering like he was a financial Mike Tyson. He was going to show NZers and Aucklanders how to do business!

Meanwhile, SCF was rotting from the inside out!
I’m rereading Billion Dollar Bonfire- it’s sickening.

[Balance]

I’m rereading Billion Dollar Bonfire- it’s sickening.

I was involved in evaluating a Pacific Island land banking and resort development proposal with a company which was funded with seed money in the tens of millions of dollars from Alan Hubbard & SCF. Words totally failed me to describe how and why SCF even got involved in the investment in the first place!!!!

[billkiapi]

Good to see an NZ regulator show some sharp teeth for once…

[Toddy]

I was involved in evaluating a Pacific Island land banking and resort development proposal with a company which was funded with seed money in the tens of millions of dollars from Alan Hubbard & SCF. Words totally failed me to describe how and why SCF even got involved in the investment in the first place!!!!

I haven't read the book. How were the Colin Strange Financial Services clients tied up. They lost EVERYTHING, eventually blamed on the Fiji resort developments.

[Balance]

I haven't read the book. How were the Colin Strange Financial Services clients tied up. They lost EVERYTHING, eventually blamed on the Fiji resort developments.

A few financial brokers must have gotten sucked in by all the hype talk without doing basic due diligence and put clients’ monies into the fund.

The land that they bought in Fiji was on Yasawa Island … no fresh water and no infrastructure in place! Everything had to be brought in from the mainland for any developments and resorts. Beautiful pristine beaches but hopeless for developing large scale resorts.

I am sure the promoters of the fund simply had to make many many long and arduous trips to Fiji, stayed at suitably relaxing resorts as they recuperate to evaluate and to oversee the ‘investments’! Hard work!

They saw SCF coming with its bagful of easy money from Alan Hubbard and his legions of depositors!

[Toddy]

A few financial brokers must have gotten sucked in by all the hype talk without doing basic due diligence and put clients’ monies into the fund.

The land that they bought in Fiji was on Yasawa Island … no fresh water and no infrastructure in place! Everything had to be brought in from the mainland for any developments and resorts. Beautiful pristine beaches but hopeless for developing large scale resorts.

I am sure the promoters of the fund simply had to make many many long and arduous trips to Fiji, stayed at suitably relaxing resorts as they recuperate to evaluate and to oversee the ‘investments’! Hard work!

They saw SCF coming with its bagful of easy money from Alan Hubbard and his legions of depositors!

Sounds about right. When everything started to turn to custard with Bridge Corp debentures then the small finance coys amalgamated under Vesper then MFS.

Then everything collapsed overnight leaving people broke. So it was a Bridge Corp Fiji Resort combo. And very weak standards for those working in the finance industry.

And there was the ANZ Bank swaps saga too that sank many farmers.

[whatsup]

Sounds about right. When everything started to turn to custard with Bridge Corp debentures then the small finance coys amalgamated under Vesper then MFS.

Then everything collapsed overnight leaving people broke. So it was a Bridge Corp Fiji Resort combo. And very weak standards for those working in the finance industry.

And there was the ANZ Bank swaps saga too that sank many farmers.

I think that the land eventually returned to its original Fijian owners ( spell F Chiefs ) who also owned the so called improvements !!

[whatsup]

Very long list of Du Val companies under receivership in the public notices in the N Z Herald today !

[Toddy]

Very long list of Du Val companies under receivership in the public notices in the N Z Herald today !

I wonder if the Rolls has already been shipped to Fiji.

Unbelievable is this day and age with all of the ticks and balances when opening new Companys and Bank accounts.

I bet you the professional associates in Hamilton and Tauranga are losing a bit of sleep.

[stoploss]

I wonder if the Rolls has already been shipped to Fiji.

Unbelievable is this day and age with all of the ticks and balances when opening new Companys and Bank accounts.

I bet you the professional associates in Hamilton and Tauranga are losing a bit of sleep.
Been on the market at a dealership in Auck for around a year .....

[Toddy]

The receivers won't like the latest Barfoot and Thompson property sales statistics.

Gulp. Uglier by the minute.

[mike2020]

The receivers won't like the latest Barfoot and Thompson property sales statistics.

Gulp. Uglier by the minute.
There were particularly big declines in the percentage of sales at the top end of the market, with the percent of sales above $2 million declining from 22.5% in June to 14.6% in July.

The way I read it is its more likely the lower priced houses pushing the average down a lot. Not that I'm familiar with the Auckland market. I am looking to buy and I don't see big drops off a year ago. Defiantly from two years ago.

[kiwical]

The receivers won't like the latest Barfoot and Thompson property sales statistics.

Gulp. Uglier by the minute.The one I just read says market is up in Auckland for July? Or is that bad news somehow? https://www.barfoot.co.nz/market-reports/2024/july/market-update

[Toddy]

There were particularly big declines in the percentage of sales at the top end of the market, with the percent of sales above $2 million declining from 22.5% in June to 14.6% in July.

The way I read it is its more likely the lower priced houses pushing the average down a lot. Not that I'm familiar with the Auckland market. I am looking to buy and I don't see big drops off a year ago. Defiantly from two years ago.

Top end tends to have their house in order, so can ride the waves of increased interest rates. The property will be worth less but will not show up in the stats.
Wellington will be interesting given the Govt and Govt Consultants shake up.

[Balance]

The one I just read says market is up in Auckland for July? Or is that bad news somehow? https://www.barfoot.co.nz/market-reports/2024/july/market-update

Huge drop in average selling price with increase in number of sales.

Positive sign that market is finding bottom imo.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/129053/big-drop-selling-prices-pushes-sales-barfoot-thompson-vendors-prepared-meet-market

[nztx]

The Beancounters at PWC look like they will be having a good Christmas or three out of this, but other unfortunates entangled probably wont fare well at all.

All the business insolvency & recovery outfits will probably be having a ball as further businesses fall over
in current nervous & recessionary times.. the trick will be to pick & dodge the vulnerable / at risk outfits & sectors

Poor Kenyon & Charlie .. hope the Personal Receiverships & Red Tape of extensive freezing orders doesn't restrict the
lavish lifestyle too severely ;)

Hope no well overdrawn shareholder advance or loan accounts that funded that there lavish lifestyle... like a piece of elastic they have tendency to potentially get pulled back in faster than funds were syphoned out ;)

The past run in with Insolvency, more recent 'Leave a bunch of Investors nailed' moneyless with a quazi default, followed by the 'Look at Us" glossed up Vids and other big noting including mutterings on Group Insolvency probably signalled a pile of Red flags for the Government Bulls to charge through Charlies' fine China Shop and leave it in complete destruction ;)

Understandable they probably were all wondering where the excesses & new found wealth suddenly popped up from after the earlier crash, bankruptcy and start from a big fat Zero again.

Where's the favourite prize Bull hiding out now - Charlie ? ;)

IPO off the table now ?

might be Wipeout instead now .. better now entangling just two plus current captives, rather than more on further potential funds drawn in from a wider circle of outside investors .. Shame :)

Time for a new paint job and different spots to be applied on the quiet out the back & out of sight ? ;)

What new Day Jobs can be suggested for the hapless glittering pair likely out and down on their luck again now .. preferably well out of lime light ?

Of course the digestive processes of the Insolvency Vultures may take a while to deconstruct all the ins & outs, but they will be very aware of what gets a pass mark across the line and what fails resulting in possible further correctional motions ;)

In many cases, the ushering in of Receivers in turn sees Liquidators land following suppliers & those owed coming to the grim realisations that there is likely little left in the pot after the first wave of vultures finish their feasting and make way for the next lot to have their turn ..

[troyvdh]

Risk and return.

History always repeats.

KISS

[nztx]

Risk and return.

History always repeats.

KISS


Indeed .. how many times in recent past has the Property Market left deep painful experiences ?

And of these how any can be linked to Political interferences ?

I guess a gut feeling on when to jump off and watch from the sidelines helps :)

[troyvdh]

Thankyou nztx.

[nztx]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-liquidation-hearing-to-proceed-despite-fma-raid

Du Val liquidation hearing to proceed despite FMA raid

(probably paywalled)

Looks like an Insolvency vultures banquet potentially on the way racking up a small fortune every week ;)

Even Kenyon's onion collection & Charlies' petty cash tin might be gone forever ;)

[Toddy]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/property/du-val-liquidation-hearing-to-proceed-despite-fma-raid

Du Val liquidation hearing to proceed despite FMA raid

(probably paywalled)

Looks like an Insolvency vultures banquet potentially on the way racking up a small fortune every week ;)

Even Kenyon's onion collection & Charlies' petty cash tin might be gone forever ;)

How big is the total liability and cash shortfall going to get.
A billion?
I bet several entities all think that they have security over the same assets. DV Lawyers and Accountants will be running for the hills with the FMA in hot pursuit.

[nztx]

How big is the total liability and cash shortfall going to get.
A billion?
I bet several entities all think that they have security over the same assets. DV Lawyers and Accountants will be running for the hills with the FMA in hot pursuit.


Wonder what the Investors got fed in the Infopack as a feel good spin to put coin in the cap :)

Wonder who signed that off ? Hope the promoters have a few spares of rubber grundies in case
the bowl comes up empty and a search party gets sent out on a surveying mission of scalps
last seen running for cover ..

[Daytr]

I'm sure they will have plenty tucked away offshore that the receivers can't touch or find.

[nztx]

I'm sure they will have plenty tucked away offshore that the receivers can't touch or find.


a bit of those dodgy offshore trusts at work again - you reckon ? ;)

[tim23]

Indeed .. how many times in recent past has the Property Market left deep painful experiences ?

And of these how any can be linked to Political interferences ?

I guess a gut feeling on when to jump off and watch from the sidelines helps :)

Yes the property comes and goes but are you going to answer your own question? I’m expecting you will blame the Labour government?!

[troyvdh]

Was/is he a pom.

What was his history ...and hers.

[Toddy]

Was/is he a pom.

What was his history ...and hers.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/the-life/my-net-worth-kenyon-clarke-founder-du-val-group

It's all here in this article.
Arrived in NZ at 17 after being kicked out of UK schools. with a mohawk, purple contact lenses and a big earing.

You guessed it. Became a real estate agent.

In the article he brags about being uneducated and how a number of his teachers said he wouldn't amount to much.

[Toddy]

While he was a real estate agent he started investing in property. Maybe he was the valuer, salesman and buyer.

And his lawyer mate upstairs in the Hamilton office handled the settlements.

There were pretty slack agent rules back then..

[Balance]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/the-life/my-net-worth-kenyon-clarke-founder-du-val-group

It's all here in this article.
Arrived in NZ at 17 after being kicked out of UK schools. with a mohawk, purple contact lenses and a big earing.

You guessed it. Became a real estate agent.

In the article he brags about being uneducated and how a number of his teachers said he wouldn't amount to much.

This says it all really about how risky their business model really was:

“I think what covid has shown is that there is a failure in our building industry to properly manage risk. For Du Val, we're investing in timber, in sawmills, and have bought our own steel-manufacturing machine. We want to be entirely self-reliant.”

As my risk adverse bank manager said to me once : “I have children but you do not see me raise cows in my backyard.”

[mike2020]

Worth a read. You can think about it two ways. If they are above board then the things they were doing in the community says a lot about them. Maybe it's just the market in general that caught up with them? I see development projects locally that have no chance of anything aside from a huge loss and the interest bills must be crippling. Possibly looking sus out of desperate moves.
Or...they have meticulously moved cash out of the country. Time will tell.

[Toddy]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/property-developers-kenyon-and-charlotte-clarkes-reality-show-set-to-stream-spy/KZKGEGDCQBHZTGZWJDJET6GI4Y/

Maybe just trace where the private jet had flown.

The FMA just needs to watch the movie tapes. Funny right!

[nztx]

Yes the property comes and goes but are you going to answer your own question? I’m expecting you will blame the Labour government?!

You said that .. not me :)

Would I utter such obscene words about sacred cows in this thread ? :)

[Toddy]

I like the last line on the now daily Business Desk Du Val update.

Re the FMA hunting down the Kitchen guy for his $3000 trading.

'Only a tool would blame his Tradesmen'.

[tim23]

Was/is he a pom.

What was his history ...and hers.

It sounded that way from the promo video - more an Essex wide boy type.

[troyvdh]

Very sad ..have "they" taken there passports yet.

[ThaiJohn]

Mate of mine is sweating. He's got over 800K sitting with them.

[kiwical]

Very sad ..have "they" taken there passports yet.Can that happen in these cases? I have no idea really, but always imagined passports could only be seized as part of an arrest / criminal proceedings. Or at least a higher bar than just a liquidation.

[blackcap]

Can that happen in these cases? I have no idea really, but always imagined passports could only be seized as part of an arrest / criminal proceedings. Or at least a higher bar than just a liquidation.

I am sure you are right. I have not heard of civil proceedings causing revocation of passport privileges.

If they have been arrested, then there might be a different story.

[thedrunkfish]

https://www.reveddit.com/v/PersonalFinanceNZ/comments/11n69hx/beware_du_val_group_are_crooks/

This link is to a reddit archive, the posts highlighted in red were removed by moderators, some very very interesting inside info.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/du-val-firearms-seized-at-remuera-property/27PQHTHRFRE25HA4QEPDOQ3EQI/

Du Val: Firearms seized at Remuera property


There was no suggestion the firearms were held illegally.

so gold plated collectors pieces ? ;)

someone might have to enjoy looking at an empty glass cabinet now :)


The FMA said interim receivers were generally appointed to seek clarity around a company or group’s financial position.

this sort of move doesn't happen for no reason or just to see how many fish are in the tanks - does it ?

[Ferg]

Du Val: Firearms seized at Remuera property
Is that all that was found in the gun safe?

[troyvdh]

Did he at ever time make statements that sounded to good to be true.

[Toddy]

Did he at ever time make statements that sounded to good to be true.

Im going to give away a billion dollars.

[troyvdh]

As one does.

[percy]

As one does.

Classic.........................lol

[dln]

Im going to give away a billion dollars.

Well, he didn't say it would be HIS billion dollars ...

[Toddy]

Well, he didn't say it would be HIS billion dollars ...

True. So maybe he can tick that goal off then.

[nztx]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/court-allows-du-val-founders-1500-a-week-each-in-living-costs

Court allows Du Val founders $1,500 a week each in living costs

(likely paywalllled)

Only $3K a week between thems ? - might have cut down on the taxi fares, fancy dinners, nails, massages, gloss ups, hairdo's , fineries of Auckland and wardrobe additions for the duration, while the Powers that be start working out which colour balloons are going to be inflated & which ones get put back into the box ;)

Such poverty .. being reduced to standards of living lower than that of the out of pocket investors left unpaid for 2 years or longer ;)