Nat/act/nzf 2023

[nztx]

As it turns out, your analogy between a Corolla and a Ferrari is the common sense required into the Inter Island debacle.

Only a few years ago Kiwi Rail themselves seriously considered scrapping rail capacity on their ferries, and transhipping goods from rail to trucks to cross the straight.

To then come out with the just scrapped ferries with a 300% increase in rail capacity was a quantum step to Ferraris.

A weak justification to appease the Lefties to allocate funding was to say this capacity was to claim this capacity was to enable more exports
Really?
So export goods could be shifted from the North Island to be exported through Lyttleton or Dunedin, and South Island goods be railed to Napier for export?
Julie Ann Genter may fall for that one, but not any old commo wharfy.

So what is more common in NZ?

Corollas or Ferraris?

It was the ferries that were breaking down, not the Linkspans and onshore infrastructure.


Labour's fans' love affair with Rail might have just another predicable seat of the b*m moment as always
happens when KiwiRail get too over excited and start drawing up plans for new tracks up on the moon
then there's an abrupt change in Country's wheelhouse :)

[nztx]

There is separate topic threads on a forum for a reason.
If everybody just posted whatever wherever, it would be pretty useless.

I'm sure everybody else also gets sick of trawling through the off topic sh1te to read the thread you have clicked on.

Or do you think thread topics are just there as window dressing too?

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is permanent - I'm simply offering Balance the opportunity show that he is simply ignorant, and that he can learn a new thing.
:)


Don't tell me your problems .. if you don't like it - try going back to playing in your own sandpit where
you can't bother others ;)

[Getty]

Labour's fans' love affair with Rail might have just another predicable seat of the b*m moment as always
happens when KiwiRail get too over excited and start drawing up plans for new tracks up on the moon
then there's an abrupt change in Country's wheelhouse :)

Correct, with the support of the Greens.
Let's spend some money we don't have.

[nztx]

Let's spend some money we don't have.


Everyone knew that was plenty of this sort of thing to be released, coming out of Robbo's
Airy Fairy, Arty Farty Pie in the Sky Socialistic spend for today - screw tomorrow Fiscal Antics ;)

Unfortunately the Left just happened to discover there were no further Banks that could be robbed
to carry the day .. but not before most of the boys and girls were already awake to it ;)

[dln]

Don't tell me your problems .. if you don't like it - try going back to playing in your own sandpit where
you can't bother others ;)

So, that's a yes then ...

[Balance]

If you can learn to put your posts in the right thread, I still won't be kissing your arse, but I might give you a pat on the head. ;)

Keep kissing my arse, loser.

Permission granted as you obviously love to do so.

[nztx]

So, that's a yes then ...


but shouldn't you have started a new thread for your issues - if you were really serious about being bothered ? ;)

[Balance]

Kelvin Davis, the most useless MP, Deputy Leader and minister ever resigns.

So totally useless that he could not answer questions in Parliament, lost his safe Maori seat and completely lost the plot as minister in charge of correction and Oranga Tamariki. Instead of making things better, he made them worse.

Hell of a pity for the new government though as Kelvin’s presence in Opposition would have been a constant reminder to NZers never to vote useless losers like him into power ever again.

But there’s still Mr ‘spray & walk away’ Hipkins, Willie ‘loose cannon’ Jackson and ‘spend & spray’ Robertson to remind NZers of just how useless Labour was.

[Balance]

Looks like Chris Luxon is - 'all hat and no cattle' as they say in Texas!
Talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. ...all hot air.

Pre election, "this is going to be a govt for infrastructure..infrastructure will truely be at the heart of building a strong and prosperous future...critical to getting nz back on track... blah, blah blah",

Yet within days of becoming govt, completely cancel another world class project, and a critical, long term, resilient piece of infrastructure, the new inter-islander ferry.
To replace with what?
second hand, non rail capable, stop gap fillers ?

Instead of a govt of doing & infrastructure, - we've got a govt of undoing & tinkering.

Nicola Willis's image of crossing Cook Strait in a roaring gale with 6 meter swells in the equivalent of an old second hand corolla instead of a Ferrari is not appealing.

Inevitably all big projects have cost blow outs, but NZ inc desperately needs a reliable rail, freight and passenger connection between its 2 main islands.
And 80% of the cost increase is around the land side, rail & road connections, so its money being spent in NZ on NZ infrastructure & in order to increase NZ productivity.

Imagine if Labour had cancelled Transmission Gully because of the cost blowouts.
Or the Channel tunnel connecting England & Europe had been cancelled because of cost blow outs.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/lloyd-burr-opinion-christopher-luxon-s-ferry-snub-shows-he-s-all-talk-on-infrastructure.html

Total garbage as usual from Ardern's devotee, Blue Skies. BS Artist of the highest order.

Damning how the Labour government closed both eyes to the horrendous costs escalation of the Inter-Island Ferry Project and just kept approving ever bigger amounts without demanding accountability & responsibility from KiwiRail.

$400m blow-out in 1 month - Nov 2023 to Dec 2023.

The saga of how the inter-island ferry debacle under Labour & specifically, 'Spend & Spray' Robertson - how the project went from $775m in 2018 and blew out big time to $3 billion :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/how-kiwirails-cook-strait-mega-ferry-vision-unravelled/WP2DT7JHONBSTBEEIKOHASAEIY/

"The 2023 general election brought a change of Government and Willis was informed of the new $2.6b cost during coalition negotiations.

She received written briefings from KiwiRail regarding the iReX project on Thursday, November 30 and met McLean and Reidy again later that evening.

By then, the cost had escalated to $3b.

On December 13, Willis issued a statement saying the Government had declined KiwiRail’s request for an extra $1.47b for portside infrastructure.

“Ministers do not have confidence that there will not be further increases and are concerned about the continued significant cost blow-outs.”

[Daytr]

Kelvin Davis, the most useless MP, Deputy Leader and minister ever resigns.

So totally useless that he could not answer questions in Parliament, lost his safe Maori seat and completely lost the plot as minister in charge of correction and Oranga Tamariki. Instead of making things better, he made them worse.

Hell of a pity for the new government though as Kelvin’s presence in Opposition would have been a constant reminder to NZers never to vote useless losers like him into power ever again.

But there’s still Mr ‘spray & walk away’ Hipkins, Willie ‘loose cannon’ Jackson and ‘spend & spray’ Robertson to remind NZers of just how useless Labour was.

I won't miss him.
But what has this got to do with this thread.
It appears that rather than focus on any positives coming out of the coalition or defending the negatives all you can do is contintually attack on the opposition.

And if you tell me to kiss your .... or anything of the kind I will go back & report every sick post you have put up & there are many.
I am sick & tired of hearing about your sick proclivities.

[Balance]

I won't miss him.
But what has this got to do with this thread.
It appears that rather than focus on any positives coming out of the coalition or defending the negatives all you can do is contintually attack on the opposition.

And if you tell me to kiss your .... or anything of the kind I will go back & report every sick post you have put up & there are many.
I am sick & tired of hearing about your sick proclivities.

Read my post before you claim it’s not relevant to this thread.

As I wrote, it is unfortunate for the new government that the most useless Maori MP in the Labour government is resigning etc etc.

And of course, I am going to continue to highlight just what a mess Labour under Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government have made of NZ as a country. What a massive clean up job for the new government.

[Daytr]

Read my post before you claim it’s not relevant to this thread.

As I wrote, it is unfortunate for the new government that the most useless Maori MP in the Labour government is resigning etc etc.

And of course, I am going to continue to highlight just what a mess Labour under Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government have made of NZ as a country. What a massive clean up job for the new government.

See you can score points without insult or reference to kissing anything.
Keep it up.

[Blue Skies]

Listening to NZR boss Peter Reidy on RNZ this morning, I think Nicola Willis has made an impulsive, incredibly short-sighted decision to require NZR to immediately cancel the current replacement for the Inter-Islander ferry.
We're going to regret this as a country.

Heres a few of the points made,
1) NZR needed another $1.47 billion to complete the project
2) Between $15 - $20 billion of freight is carried across Cook Strait every single year, keep that in perspective.
3) Reducing the size of the ships (e.g. Corollas instead of Ferraris) will hardly save any money, its the land side causing the increase in costs
4) Even Mainfreight boss Don Braid says, Road-Bridge is not viable. i.e. rail to port, take containers off, put on to trucks, on to ferries & reverse at other end. Due - each Container would require 64 lifts, health & safety, there's no large area to offload & park containers at either port - so you need a conveyor belt system i.e. rail cars straight onto the ships & straight off & away, the time taken to load & unload Road-bridge would result in huge delays for the ferries, the extra cost means freight customers would just use road transport all the way instead of rail.
5) On/off rail link results in getting heavy freight off our roads & on rail, saving billions in road maintenance, & congestion.
6) The only way to make substantial savings is to reduce the land side component from 100 year life span to a 20 year life span.
7) So things start falling apart in 15 years time, by which time costs have increased hugely & we have to do it all again.
8) Cook Strait is one of the most dangerous pieces of water in the world, safety & reliability are paramount.

There's no point saying the govt can't afford the $1.47 billion, its just a matter of priorities, if there's $14.6 billion for tax cuts, $3 billion for landlords, there's an extra one off $1.47 billion to give NZ a vital, safe, resilient, efficient, 100 year infrastructure connection between the countries 2 main islands.

Seems incredibly short sighted, there's nothing to replace it, all that work done already lost, have to start again from scratch when we're running out of time - with current ferries breaking down.
I think in 10 years time we'll look back and really regret this.

[jonu]

Listening to NZR boss Peter Reidy on RNZ this morning, I think Nicola Willis has made an impulsive, incredibly short-sighted decision to require NZR to immediately cancel the current replacement for the Inter-Islander ferry.
We're going to regret this as a country.

Heres a few of the points made,
1) NZR needed another $1.47 billion to complete the project
2) Between $15 - $20 billion of freight is carried across Cook Strait every single year, keep that in perspective.
3) Reducing the size of the ships (e.g. Corollas instead of Ferraris) will hardly save any money, its the land side causing the increase in costs
4) Even Mainfreight boss Don Braid says, Road-Bridge is not viable. i.e. rail to port, take containers off, put on to trucks, on to ferries & reverse at other end. Due - each Container would require 64 lifts, health & safety, there's no large area to offload & park containers at either port - so you need a conveyor belt system i.e. rail cars straight onto the ships & straight off & away, the time taken to load & unload Road-bridge would result in huge delays for the ferries, the extra cost means freight customers would just use road transport all the way instead of rail.
5) On/off rail link results in getting heavy freight off our roads & on rail, saving billions in road maintenance, & congestion.
6) The only way to make substantial savings is to reduce the land side component from 100 year life span to a 20 year life span.
7) So things start falling apart in 15 years time, by which time costs have increased hugely & we have to do it all again.
8) Cook Strait is one of the most dangerous pieces of water in the world, safety & reliability are paramount.

There's no point saying the govt can't afford the $1.47 billion, its just a matter of priorities, if there's $14.6 billion for tax cuts, $3 billion for landlords, there's an extra one off $1.47 billion to give NZ a vital, safe, resilient, efficient, 100 year infrastructure connection between the countries 2 main islands.

Seems incredibly short sighted, there's nothing to replace it, all that work done already lost, have to start again from scratch when we're running out of time - with current ferries breaking down.
I think in 10 years time we'll look back and really regret this.

Regret throwing good money after bad to a bunch that have managed to nearly quadruple the cost of the project?

Willis isn't saying we will do nothing. She's saying the fools in charge need to be brought into line and bring someone competent in.

Blue skies, your irresponsible attitude with other people's money is exactly what is the problem with this project. Who is to say they would have stopped putting their hand out at 3 Billion? Oh another $1.47 Billion....almost nothing when the money isn't yours.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think in 10 years time we'll look back and really regret this.

They don't care... the election cycle is only three years.
Same mindset which leads them to ignore an aging population & climate change.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Listening to NZR boss Peter Reidy on RNZ this morning, I think Nicola Willis has made an impulsive, incredibly short-sighted decision to require NZR to immediately cancel the current replacement for the Inter-Islander ferry.
We're going to regret this as a country.

Heres a few of the points made,
1) NZR needed another $1.47 billion to complete the project
2) Between $15 - $20 billion of freight is carried across Cook Strait every single year, keep that in perspective.
3) Reducing the size of the ships (e.g. Corollas instead of Ferraris) will hardly save any money, its the land side causing the increase in costs
4) Even Mainfreight boss Don Braid says, Road-Bridge is not viable. i.e. rail to port, take containers off, put on to trucks, on to ferries & reverse at other end. Due - each Container would require 64 lifts, health & safety, there's no large area to offload & park containers at either port - so you need a conveyor belt system i.e. rail cars straight onto the ships & straight off & away, the time taken to load & unload Road-bridge would result in huge delays for the ferries, the extra cost means freight customers would just use road transport all the way instead of rail.
5) On/off rail link results in getting heavy freight off our roads & on rail, saving billions in road maintenance, & congestion.
6) The only way to make substantial savings is to reduce the land side component from 100 year life span to a 20 year life span.
7) So things start falling apart in 15 years time, by which time costs have increased hugely & we have to do it all again.
8) Cook Strait is one of the most dangerous pieces of water in the world, safety & reliability are paramount.

There's no point saying the govt can't afford the $1.47 billion, its just a matter of priorities, if there's $14.6 billion for tax cuts, $3 billion for landlords, there's an extra one off $1.47 billion to give NZ a vital, safe, resilient, efficient, 100 year infrastructure connection between the countries 2 main islands.

Seems incredibly short sighted, there's nothing to replace it, all that work done already lost, have to start again from scratch when we're running out of time - with current ferries breaking down.
I think in 10 years time we'll look back and really regret this.

You're talking about '$1.47 billion' in isolation, as if there would be no further blow-outs. "Oooeerrr....we only wanted 1.47 billion". This is totally incorrect. It is a lot more than $1.47 billion and I don't know how the government could have any confidence in anything KiwiRail say when the costs have been blowing out like Topsy and no doubt would continue to do so.
KiwiRail needs massive change at board level and at the top. It is a white elephant in its current form. It is a bottomless pit for taxpayers who are paying for the Leftist obsession with rail. KiwiRail is not some sacred cow that can do as it pleases, it must be accountable.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/how-kiwirails-cook-strait-mega-ferry-vision-unravelled/WP2DT7JHONBSTBEEIKOHASAEIY/

How KiwiRail’s Cook Strait mega-ferry project unravelled

By Georgina Campbell
15 Dec, 2023 05:00 AM

In November 2018, KiwiRail had a business case indicating the preferred option to replace Interislander’s fleet of three ferries was two large rail-enabled ships.

At that time, the estimated cost of the project, including the new ferries themselves and the portside infrastructure, was $775m.

The state-owned enterprise submitted this business case in advance of Budget 2019.

The Government gave KiwiRail $35m to progress the design and the procurement of the two ferries.

A Beehive press release from June 2019 titled “Government laying down tracks for the future” said KiwiRail would also be investigating various options to pay for the ferries.

In November of that year, KiwiRail submitted another bid for more money to deliver what has come to be known as the Inter-island Resilience Connection project (iReX).

However, by this time, the cost of the project was forecast to be $1.389 billion, up from $775m.

KiwiRail’s budget bid was successful, and in May 2020 the Government announced a further $400m for the project.

The Government expected this would be the final amount of Crown funding and the remaining costs would be privately funded.

The Government was in for a nasty surprise.

KiwiRail went on to submit another bid for more money ahead of Budget 2021, this time for an additional $565m.

Treasury and Ministry of Transport officials were not happy.

Costs for the overall programme had ballooned to $1.76b in March 2021. Portside costs alone had almost quadrupled to more than $1b.

Officials raised concerns about the increasing scale and cost of the project, including that its latest business case was still in draft form at that time and yet to be finalised by KiwiRail’s board.

Ministers agreed the Budget bid should be deferred.

The decision was not without risk. KiwiRail warned that without the $565m, the arrival of the new fleet would be delayed and the Interislander service would be compromised.

KiwiRail had signed a letter of intent with Hyundai Mipo Dockyard for the two new ferries, which was due to expire in a few months.

If it expired without a formal contract being signed, the terms and price could be renegotiated.

Eventually, Cabinet agreed to a contingency fund in June 2021, and by that time KiwiRail had progressed the design of the port infrastructure and estimated the cost to be $1.45b instead of $1.76b.

On July 1, KiwiRail issued a press release saying it had signed a now binding contract with Hyundai Mipo Dockyard for the state-of-the-art ferries.

But KiwiRail deputy chairwoman Sue McCormack also received a stern letter from a “disappointed” Grant Robertson, who told her significant risks regarding the project remained.

In October 2022, KiwiRail advised ministers there was yet another cost escalation associated with the terminals, but said the worst-case scenario was that the tagged contingency would need to increase by $280m.

As it turned out, this was not the worst-case scenario.

In February 2023, KiwiRail told the Government the overall cost had escalated to $2.6b.

Ministers wanted the state-owned enterprise to provide further information and work with officials to look at different options.

KiwiRail went on to review all aspects of the iReX project to make sure costs were being managed prudently.

In September 2023, Cabinet made an in-principle funding decision to help plug some of the cost escalation, but it was not enough to complete the full project.

The 2023 general election brought a change of Government and Willis was informed of the new $2.6b cost during coalition negotiations.

She received written briefings from KiwiRail regarding the iReX project on Thursday, November 30 and met McLean and Reidy again later that evening.

By then, the cost had escalated to $3b.

On December 13, Willis issued a statement saying the Government had declined KiwiRail’s request for an extra $1.47b for portside infrastructure.

“Ministers do not have confidence that there will not be further increases and are concerned about the continued significant cost blow-outs.”

The project was scuppered.'

[Panda-NZ-]

It doesn't require any skill to cancel a project.

It does to make it run on time and on budget. Maybe Nicola just isn't capable of this.

[Logen Ninefingers]

They don't care... the election cycle is only three years.
Same mindset which leads them to ignore an aging population & climate change.

Climate change. lol. NZ's share of global emissions is 0.17%
Nuclear energy could provide most of the world's energy needs very easily, topped up by hydro and fossil fuels. Except the Leftists don't want solutions to 'the problem', because that wouldn't involve 'dismantling the capitalist system'. What Leftists want is increasing disaffection leading to eventual revolution.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It doesn't require any skill to cancel a project.

It does to make it run on time and on budget. Maybe Nicola just isn't capable of this.

Well Labour and Grant weren't capable of it, were they. Another 'logic fail' from you. Over a period of 6 years Labour put up with ever increasing blow outs & instead just continued shovelling money at KiwiRail. This is another example of failure by the state when it comes to running something efficiently and responsibly. How come Bluebridge can operate a ferry service but KiwiRail manage to totally cock it up while frittering away billions? If KiwiRail cannot operate to the required standard then alternatives should be looked at.

[Panda-NZ-]

Climate change. lol. NZ's share of global emissions is 0.17%
Nuclear energy could provide most of the world's energy needs very easily, topped up by hydro and fossil fuels. Except the Leftists don't want solutions to 'the problem', because that wouldn't involve 'dismantling the capitalist system'. What Leftists want is increasing disaffection leading to eventual revolution.

Nuclear is not cost competitive with renewables. Fusion research is worth more funding though.

Research and science of all kinds (in the US) deserve significant funding boosts as it will produce massive benefits but US conservatives think it's a waste of money sadly.

[Panda-NZ-]

Well Labour and Grant weren't capable of it, were they. Another 'logic fail' from you. Over a period of 6 years Labour put up with ever increasing blow outs & instead just continued shovelling money at KiwiRail. This is another example of failure by the state when it comes to running something efficiently and responsibly. How come Bluebridge can operate a ferry service but KiwiRail manage to totally cock it up while frittering away billions? If KiwiRail cannot operate to the required standard then alternatives should be looked at.

Did I defend them? I only want to see some of the skills from the great "economic managers" that they claimed to have.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Nuclear is not cost competitive with renewables. Fusion research is worth more funding though.

Research and science of all kinds (in the US) deserve significant funding boosts as it will produce massive benefits but US conservatives think it's a waste of money sadly.

Wrong. Nuclear power is cost-competitive with other forms of electricity generation, except where there is direct access to low-cost fossil fuels.
Next you'll pivot to 'safety concerns', cycling through your grab bag of Lefty talking points.
I repeat: the global Left do not want a solution to 'the climate change problem', because then they won't get their cherished 'revolution to destroy the capitalist system'. Every arm of Leftist attack, whether it be 'climate change', 'gender issues', 'the colonial legacy / decolonisation' , workplace relations - it is all designed to stoke division and societal disaffection with the aim of 'a revolution to destroy the capitalist system'.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Did I defend them? I only want to see some of the skills from the great "economic managers" that they claimed to have.

Scrapping wasteful spending is the kind of economic management that New Zealanders voted for. I know you can't tolerate democracy but you'll just have to put up with it I'm afraid. The mega-ferries and grandiose portside terminals can go to hell as far as I am concerned. The KiwiRail board and CEO should have been sacked as soon as they tabled the first massive cost blow-out.

[Panda-NZ-]

Wrong. Nuclear power is cost-competitive with other forms of electricity generation, except where there is direct access to low-cost fossil fuels.
Next you'll pivot to 'safety concerns', cycling through your grab bag of Lefty talking points.
I repeat: the global Left do not want a solution to 'the climate change problem', because then they won't get their cherished 'revolution to destroy the capitalist system'. Every arm of Leftist attack, whether it be 'climate change', 'gender issues', 'the colonial legacy / decolonisation' , workplace relations - it is all designed to stoke division and societal disaffection with the aim of 'a revolution to destroy the capitalist system'.

Strange because their policies generally make people more satisfied within the "unjust system" by reducing the downsides. That's not the best plan if you want to destroy the system and replace it with something else.

Wouldn't you simply join Act instead if you want "revolution in the streets".

[Panda-NZ-]

Scrapping wasteful spending is the kind of economic management that New Zealanders voted for. I know you can't tolerate democracy but you'll just have to put up with it I'm afraid. The mega-ferries and grandiose portside terminals can go to hell as far as I am concerned. The KiwiRail board and CEO should have been sacked as soon as they tabled the first massive cost blow-out.

They're increasing spending, $400m in new cost with nothing to show on top of the tax cuts.

Rather than billions in assets.

[Blue Skies]

Regret throwing good money after bad to a bunch that have managed to nearly quadruple the cost of the project?

Willis isn't saying we will do nothing. She's saying the fools in charge need to be brought into line and bring someone competent in.

Blue skies, your irresponsible attitude with other people's money is exactly what is the problem with this project. Who is to say they would have stopped putting their hand out at 3 Billion? Oh another $1.47 Billion....almost nothing when the money isn't yours.



Jonu have you read the iReX (inter-islander replacement) project plan or know anything about it? It was going to be fantastic & it's a vital piece on Stage Highway 1 connecting the countries 2 main islands.
Of course Grant Robertson was furious about the escalating cost, but with Wellington's earthquake seismic challenges plus rising sea levels to prepare for, its a difficult project.
And the cost increases to NZR & the govt land squarely at the feet of Downer HEB Joint Venture who are the highly experienced infrastructure project managers, so if you think they're fools & a bad bunch, who would you suggest replace them?

Unfortunate but all major infrastructure projects have cost blow outs, think of - Puhoi to Warkworth motorway, Waterview tunnel, Transmission Gully, North Western Motorway, Christchurch Stadium, State Highway 25A Coromandel, Auckland harbour bridge, Sydney Opera House, Channel Tunnel connecting England & Europe, etc
We wouldn't have any of thees things if projects had been cancelled half way through, to they end up costing more in the long term like the North-Western Motorway which due to shortsightedness & cost cutting has had to have several hugely expensive upgrades adding extra lanes which should have been built in the first place.

This 3 year govt cycle is handicapping us on desperately needed major long term infrastructure ( 100 year resilience).
Do you think in 30 or 40 years time we will look back and worry about an extra $1.47 billion which would have saved us replacing these clapped out second hand ferries National bought us & build new port facilities.
There's a safety aspect too, lets hope we don't end up with another Wahine disaster because the govt was so short sighted.


Have a look at the project & tell us what you think.

https://www.irex.co.nz/wellington

[Logen Ninefingers]

They're increasing spending, $400m in new cost with nothing to show on top of the tax cuts.

Rather than billions in assets.

Still whingeing about people getting to keep more of their own money! But I guess under your totalitarian system, no-one would own anything, everything would be run and controlled by the state ('social justice'), and we'd be in some sort of 'utopia' of hunter-gathering & gulags. Not the world I want to live in. You Leftists can agitate all you want, the revolution ain't coming.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Jonu have you read the iReX (inter-islander replacement) project plan or know anything about it? It was going to be fantastic & it's a vital piece on Stage Highway 1 connecting the countries 2 main islands.
Of course Grant Robertson was furious about the escalating cost, but with Wellington's earthquake seismic challenges plus rising sea levels to prepare for, its a difficult project.
And the cost increases to NZR & the govt land squarely at the feet of Downer HEB Joint Venture who are the highly experienced infrastructure project managers, so if you think they're fools & a bad bunch, who would you suggest replace them?

Unfortunate but all major infrastructure projects have cost blow outs, think of - Puhoi to Warkworth motorway, Waterview tunnel, Transmission Gully, North Western Motorway, Christchurch Stadium, State Highway 25A Coromandel, Auckland harbour bridge, Sydney Opera House, Channel Tunnel connecting England & Europe, etc
We wouldn't have any of thees things if projects had been cancelled half way through, to they end up costing more in the long term like the North-Western Motorway which due to shortsightedness & cost cutting has had to have several hugely expensive upgrades adding extra lanes which should have been built in the first place.

This 3 year govt cycle is handicapping us on desperately needed major long term infrastructure ( 100 year resilience).
Do you think in 30 or 40 years time we will look back and worry about an extra $1.47 billion which would have saved us replacing these clapped out second hand ferries National bought us & build new port facilities.
There's a safety aspect too, lets hope we don't end up with another Wahine disaster because the govt was so short sighted.


Have a look at the project & tell us what you think.

https://www.irex.co.nz/wellington

I'll go with Bluebridge.

[jonu]

Jonu have you read the iReX (inter-islander replacement) project plan or know anything about it? It was going to be fantastic & it's a vital piece on Stage Highway 1 connecting the countries 2 main islands.
Of course Grant Robertson was furious about the escalating cost, but with Wellington's earthquake seismic challenges plus rising sea levels to prepare for, its a difficult project.
And the cost increases to NZR & the govt land squarely at the feet of Downer HEB Joint Venture who are the highly experienced infrastructure project managers, so if you think they're fools & a bad bunch, who would you suggest replace them?

Unfortunate but all major infrastructure projects have cost blow outs, think of - Puhoi to Warkworth motorway, Waterview tunnel, Transmission Gully, North Western Motorway, Christchurch Stadium, State Highway 25A Coromandel, Auckland harbour bridge, Sydney Opera House, Channel Tunnel connecting England & Europe, etc
We wouldn't have any of thees things if projects had been cancelled half way through, to they end up costing more in the long term like the North-Western Motorway which due to shortsightedness & cost cutting has had to have several hugely expensive upgrades adding extra lanes which should have been built in the first place.

This 3 year govt cycle is handicapping us on desperately needed major long term infrastructure ( 100 year resilience).
Do you think in 30 or 40 years time we will look back and worry about an extra $1.47 billion which would have saved us replacing these clapped out second hand ferries National bought us & build new port facilities.
There's a safety aspect too, lets hope we don't end up with another Wahine disaster because the govt was so short sighted.


Have a look at the project & tell us what you think.

https://www.irex.co.nz/wellington

Sounds about as wonderful and deliverable as the Harbour bridge cycleway, or Auckland Light Rail or the Onslow "battery", or....oh never mind.

[iceman]

Listening to NZR boss Peter Reidy on RNZ this morning, I think Nicola Willis has made an impulsive, incredibly short-sighted decision to require NZR to immediately cancel the current replacement for the Inter-Islander ferry.
We're going to regret this as a country.

Heres a few of the points made,
1) NZR needed another $1.47 billion to complete the project
2) Between $15 - $20 billion of freight is carried across Cook Strait every single year, keep that in perspective.
3) Reducing the size of the ships (e.g. Corollas instead of Ferraris) will hardly save any money, its the land side causing the increase in costs
4) Even Mainfreight boss Don Braid says, Road-Bridge is not viable. i.e. rail to port, take containers off, put on to trucks, on to ferries & reverse at other end. Due - each Container would require 64 lifts, health & safety, there's no large area to offload & park containers at either port - so you need a conveyor belt system i.e. rail cars straight onto the ships & straight off & away, the time taken to load & unload Road-bridge would result in huge delays for the ferries, the extra cost means freight customers would just use road transport all the way instead of rail.
5) On/off rail link results in getting heavy freight off our roads & on rail, saving billions in road maintenance, & congestion.
6) The only way to make substantial savings is to reduce the land side component from 100 year life span to a 20 year life span.
7) So things start falling apart in 15 years time, by which time costs have increased hugely & we have to do it all again.
8) Cook Strait is one of the most dangerous pieces of water in the world, safety & reliability are paramount.

There's no point saying the govt can't afford the $1.47 billion, its just a matter of priorities, if there's $14.6 billion for tax cuts, $3 billion for landlords, there's an extra one off $1.47 billion to give NZ a vital, safe, resilient, efficient, 100 year infrastructure connection between the countries 2 main islands.

Seems incredibly short sighted, there's nothing to replace it, all that work done already lost, have to start again from scratch when we're running out of time - with current ferries breaking down.
I think in 10 years time we'll look back and really regret this.

I listened to Reidy as well and took a different view to you. Probably not surprising. But instead of debating each point as you and I will never agree on it, I ask you if you can direct me to one country where this so called "rail enabled" and hugely expensive system, has been successfully implemented and used ?
I'm interested in learning more about it.

[iceman]

I'll go with Bluebridge.

Strange how they can run a profitable operation on the same stretch of water as NZ Rail !

[dobby41]

Strange how they can run a profitable operation on the same stretch of water as NZ Rail !

They run less and don't do rail.
They break down also.

[Logen Ninefingers]

They run less and don't do rail.
They break down also.

‘They….don’t do rail.’

——

That’s one huge advantage then, isn’t it!!!!
Maybe ‘KiwiFerry’ should run ferries, because have a rail company do it and they want to stick rails on ferries & build huge terminals that have nothing to with running a ferry across the Cook Strait.

[Blue Skies]

I listened to Reidy as well and took a different view to you. Probably not surprising. But instead of debating each point as you and I will never agree on it, I ask you if you can direct me to one country where this so called "rail enabled" and hugely expensive system, has been successfully implemented and used ?
I'm interested in learning more about it.



Being a student of geography, am sure you know NZ's unique geographical features combined with its climate make meaningful comparisons with other countries meaningless.
NZ's extremely long narrow geography, cut in half by one of the dangerous & unpredictable stretches of water in the world, combined with seismic activity & climate events, presents challenges unique to NZ.
Add in an extremely long road network & it's maintenance can only be funded by a relatively small population.
There have been and are examples of rail capable ferries in Asia & Europe but with new engineering technology, increasingly they are being replaced by long tunnels & bridges to carry rail. e.g. the Danyang-Kunshan in China is 164 kms long & one of China's most important rail connections.
Building a bridge over the mere 22 kilometres (at its narrowest point) of stormy Cook Strait is never going to be an option & forget about a tunnel.

NZ's long narrow geography makes rail a very appealing option as it provides an efficient way to move tons of freight from one end of the country to the other, and takes literally thousands of heavy truck & trailers off our fragile road system.
If Mainfreight's boss says Road- bridge is not viable, who am I to argue.
Rail shouldn't be judged on being run at a profit, it should be subsidised by other parts of the economy because of the overall boost to NZ inc. productivity, efficiency, cost savings to maintaining the countries road network, lowering congestion (removing thousands of heavy trucks off Wellington's motorways) meaning we don't have to keep adding more lanes to our motorways, safety for other road users etc.
Heavy trucks do so much damage to our roads which were not built for them, the cost of repairs is going to go into the billions.

Besides there's no where to park all these containers being off loaded on either side of the Strait waiting to be reloaded onto trucks to take them onto the ferries.
The trucking industry will be quite happy to see the govt has cancelled this as means more freight on the roads instead of rail as the economy grows over the coming years.
Ask yourself do you want more heavy trucks on our roads, or fewer with a good rail system.
And remember Winston & NZF are very strong backers of rail.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gdp-fall-shock-finance-minister-nicola-willis-blames-economy-shrink-on-labour/SFP4BBYWWFAF7NQ7YMBNM3O6WE/

GDP fall shock: Finance Minister Nicola Willis blames economy shrink on Labour



Finance Minister Nicola Willis has promised to “open the books” on the state of the country’s economy, claiming she has “inherited a toxic trifecta”.

he trifecta of tough economic conditions - high interest rates, lingering high inflation and the job and business insecurity of a recession.

The weak economic growth is expected to continue for a while, despite some record-setting recent net migration.

“We will be properly opening the books,” Willis promised following the disappointing result.

She promised that the books would be opened to the public so that the “nasty” things she claimed the previous government was hiding would be clear.


Is Robbo still staying around to have the book & worst possible Audit & Finance Inspector's report thrown at him ? ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gdp-fall-shock-finance-minister-nicola-willis-blames-economy-shrink-on-labour/SFP4BBYWWFAF7NQ7YMBNM3O6WE/

GDP fall shock: Finance Minister Nicola Willis blames economy shrink on Labour





Is Robbo still staying around to have the book & worst possible Audit & Finance Inspector's report thrown at him ? ;)

It's happening on their watch. They've been talking down NZ for nearly one year.

I'm sure it's no problem since we have economic experts at the helm now.

[nztx]

They're increasing spending, $400m in new cost with nothing to show on top of the tax cuts.

Rather than billions in assets.


Still going to the bright, industrious & lucrative isles of the Argy Republic or is that now off ? ;)

Here's an update:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/why-argentinas-shock-measures-may-be-the-best-hope-for-its-ailing-economy/KZ2S3CIX7NEGHPFT4YXCPXBPKE/

Why Argentina’s shock measures may be the best hope for its ailing economy



The painful economic steps that Argentina’s new president, Javier Milei, announced this week sound draconian: Slashing the currency’s value in half. Reducing aid to provincial governments. Suspending public works. Cutting subsidies for gas and electricity. Raising some taxes.

Yet the South American country’s economy is such a basket case — and has been for so long — that many analysts believe that only such radical measures offer a realistic opportunity to rescue the economy.

Your favourite intended new haunt is showing all the signs of being a totally down & out Impoverished Poverty Shocker ;)



Inflation in Argentina has hit 161 per cent. Its economy is shrinking, in part because of a ruinous drought. In the past five years, its currency has lost about 90 per cent of its value against the US dollar. Its debts, including $45 billion (NZ$72.5b) that it owes the International Monetary Fund, are suffocating. One in four Argentinians lives in poverty.


Even more of the poor peasants look to be facing being screwed over harder ;)

Probably a bit further down the track there than our own Labour Incompetent Robbo had our own economy headed ;)

[tim23]

Did I defend them? I only want to see some of the skills from the great "economic managers" that they claimed to have.
Michael Cullen said in his book that he was frustrated that for some reason there was perception that National were better money managers. Ruth Richardson Mark 2 probably won’t hold a candle to Cullen.

[nztx]

It's happening on their watch. They've been talking down NZ for nearly one year.

I'm sure it's no problem since we have economic experts at the helm now.

Just as well we have people around who are more expert & just in time before Chipkins, Robbo and the rest of clueless Goon Show put things into over the cliff mode with a total trashing of things ;)


More like it started happening and had it's roots back when Labour were in .. cycle back to Robbo's Grand Budget of Free Nothings, while Interest rates & COL flew upwards & amuck ;)

[nztx]

Michael Cullen said in his book that he was frustrated that for some reason there was perception that National were better money managers. Ruth Richardson Mark 2 probably won’t hold a candle to Cullen.


That long ago since Labour had someone with half a clue ? ;)

Housing was no problem then .. no creative interference in RRE market forces,
No Airy-fairy Arty-Farty 'I dont like RRE Interest claimed shots from the hip
from smiling Roly Poly with a large growing Fiscal hole in one and no real answers ;)

Of course everyone loved Cullen treading smooth waters, because nothing much happened
apart from GFC conveniently knifing the pet Kiwisaver new incarnation within just 2 years
of it getting given life ;)


And the poor old Kiwi peasant has never been better off as back then, with each term of new Labour Comrades managing to devalue things further in real terms ever since Cullen's days ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's happening on their watch. They've been talking down NZ for nearly one year.

I'm sure it's no problem since we have economic experts at the helm now.

You’re constant trolling about ‘economic managers’ and ‘economic experts’ is extremely tiresome and the trait of a dullard. And trying to pin Labours economic catastrophe on a government that has only just taken power is disingenuous and more than a bit shameful. Economies don’t run on people ‘talking them up and down’, although Leftists may fantasise that that is the case.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Michael Cullen said in his book that he was frustrated that for some reason there was perception that National were better money managers. Ruth Richardson Mark 2 probably won’t hold a candle to Cullen.

Panda has a little friend. It’s the ‘Tim and Dim’ show.

[nztx]

You’re constant trolling about ‘economic managers’ and ‘economic experts’ is extremely tiresome and the trait of a dullard. And trying to pin Labours economic catastrophe on a government that has only just taken power is disingenuous and more than a bit shameful. Economies don’t run on people ‘talking them up and down’, although Leftists may fantasise that that is the case.


Please try to be kind .. Panda's ideal fantasy Perfect World they claimed earlier was no other than .. Argentina :)

[Logen Ninefingers]

Please try to be kind .. Panda's ideal fantasy Perfect World they claimed earlier was no other than .. Argentina :)

His ideal world is ‘Left Wing Utopia’ where totally useless bureaucrats & ‘academics’ (pseudo intellectuals) destroy nations & kill millions through famines / gulags. They did it is the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela, and ultimately they want to do it here and right round the world. They are currently doing everything in their power to destroy the West and eventually they may go so far as to have it backfire on them in spectacular fashion.

[iceman]

Being a student of geography, am sure you know NZ's unique geographical features combined with its climate make meaningful comparisons with other countries meaningless.
NZ's extremely long narrow geography, cut in half by one of the dangerous & unpredictable stretches of water in the world, combined with seismic activity & climate events, presents challenges unique to NZ.
Add in an extremely long road network & it's maintenance can only be funded by a relatively small population.
There have been and are examples of rail capable ferries in Asia & Europe but with new engineering technology, increasingly they are being replaced by long tunnels & bridges to carry rail. e.g. the Danyang-Kunshan in China is 164 kms long & one of China's most important rail connections.
Building a bridge over the mere 22 kilometres (at its narrowest point) of stormy Cook Strait is never going to be an option & forget about a tunnel.

NZ's long narrow geography makes rail a very appealing option as it provides an efficient way to move tons of freight from one end of the country to the other, and takes literally thousands of heavy truck & trailers off our fragile road system.
If Mainfreight's boss says Road- bridge is not viable, who am I to argue.
Rail shouldn't be judged on being run at a profit, it should be subsidised by other parts of the economy because of the overall boost to NZ inc. productivity, efficiency, cost savings to maintaining the countries road network, lowering congestion (removing thousands of heavy trucks off Wellington's motorways) meaning we don't have to keep adding more lanes to our motorways, safety for other road users etc.
Heavy trucks do so much damage to our roads which were not built for them, the cost of repairs is going to go into the billions.

Besides there's no where to park all these containers being off loaded on either side of the Strait waiting to be reloaded onto trucks to take them onto the ferries.
The trucking industry will be quite happy to see the govt has cancelled this as means more freight on the roads instead of rail as the economy grows over the coming years.
Ask yourself do you want more heavy trucks on our roads, or fewer with a good rail system.
And remember Winston & NZF are very strong backers of rail.

Thanks for confirming this pipedream was meant to be a World first (and only), hence the ridiculous costs. Back to the drawing board.

NZ is not unique with its geographical features. Norway being a good example of another one with same population and huge coastline, just a lot more clever (and richer) with their transport infrastructure, including ferries. Their waters aren't exactly plain sailing either, just like the Cook Strait isn't.

Also, why is coastal/feeder shipping between secondary ports such as Napier, Nelson, Timaru, Dunedin, Bluff, Westport,New Plymouth etc, not considered as an option if this is going to be subsidised via funding from Government, like Kiwirail is ? That would remove a lot of trucks of the roads.

I don't know what the solution is but when costs estimates have tripled in only 4-5 years (and who knows where it ends) while this project has remained on the drawing board, it is time to pause and review. Any decent business would do that. I also note that this latest huge increase in estimated costs had NOT been approved by the previous Government. They chose to kick the can down the road.

[Panda-NZ-]

His ideal world is ‘Left Wing Utopia’ where totally useless bureaucrats & ‘academics’ (pseudo intellectuals) destroy nations & kill millions through famines / gulags. They did it is the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela, and ultimately they want to do it here and right round the world. They are currently doing everything in their power to destroy the West and eventually they may go so far as to have it backfire on them in spectacular fashion.

Australia and US have legendary bureaucracies despite being libertarians in the latter case (having their own state govts with duplicate functions).

[Blue Skies]

Thanks for confirming this pipedream was meant to be a World first (and only), hence the ridiculous costs. Back to the drawing board.

NZ is not unique with its geographical features. Norway being a good example of another one with same population and huge coastline, just a lot more clever (and richer) with their transport infrastructure, including ferries. Their waters aren't exactly plain sailing either, just like the Cook Strait isn't.

Also, why is coastal/feeder shipping between secondary ports such as Napier, Nelson, Timaru, Dunedin, Bluff, Westport,New Plymouth etc, not considered as an option if this is going to be subsidised via funding from Government, like Kiwirail is ? That would remove a lot of trucks of the roads.

I don't know what the solution is but when costs estimates have tripled in only 4-5 years (and who knows where it ends) while this project has remained on the drawing board, it is time to pause and review. Any decent business would do that. I also note that this latest huge increase in estimated costs had NOT been approved by the previous Government. They chose to kick the can down the road.





I wrote..., There have been and are examples of rail capable ferries in Asia & Europe but with new engineering technology, increasingly they are being replaced by long tunnels & bridges to carry rail. e.g. the Danyang-Kunshan in China is 164 kms long & one of China's most important rail connections.

Building a bridge over the mere 22 kilometres (at its narrowest point) of stormy Cook Strait is never going to be an option & forget about a tunnel.

If we had taxes like Norway, we would be able to afford a First class transport system too,- instead of getting the equivalent of a Toyota Corolla to provide the vital link between our 2 main islands & across one of the most dangerous & unpredictable stretches of water in the world !

I agree with you costs have to be reviewed & savings found, but this govt seems to be hell bent on undoing everything Labour's done without due process for impacts & alternatives.
Telling NZR to cancel the project instead of reviewing it, with the loss of all that investment, no options, and starting again from scratch seems short sighted & amateurish political management.

In the end this could end up costing us the same or more, further years of delays & a much inferior inter- islander transport system with a short life span.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I wrote..., There have been and are examples of rail capable ferries in Asia & Europe but with new engineering technology, increasingly they are being replaced by long tunnels & bridges to carry rail. e.g. the Danyang-Kunshan in China is 164 kms long & one of China's most important rail connections.

Building a bridge over the mere 22 kilometres (at its narrowest point) of stormy Cook Strait is never going to be an option & forget about a tunnel.

If we had taxes like Norway, we would be able to afford a First class transport system too,- instead of getting the equivalent of a Toyota Corolla to provide the vital link between our 2 main islands & across one of the most dangerous & unpredictable stretches of water in the world !

I agree with you costs have to be reviewed & savings found, but this govt seems to be hell bent on undoing everything Labour's done without due process for impacts & alternatives.
Telling NZR to cancel the project instead of reviewing it, with the loss of all that investment, no options, and starting again from scratch seems short sighted & amateurish political management.

In the end this could end up costing us the same or more, further years of delays & a much inferior inter- islander transport system with a short life span.

Predictably the ‘answer’ is taxes in your eyes, despite Labour accessing a bottomless pit of borrowed money and just p*ssing it away with absolutely nothing to show for it. The problem isn’t the supply of money, it’s the incompetence of that previous government and the public servants they had working for them.

Did you answer his point on coastal shipping?

Sack the inept KiwiRail CEO and board, and get the business of operating ferries handled by some competent entity and not one obsessed with railway tracks.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Australia and US have legendary bureaucracies despite being libertarians in the latter case (having their own state govts with duplicate functions).

My point is that the bureaucrats have to be kept on a leash, otherwise they’ll put the public on one.

[iceman]

Still going to the bright, industrious & lucrative isles of the Argy Republic or is that now off ? ;)

Here's an update:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/why-argentinas-shock-measures-may-be-the-best-hope-for-its-ailing-economy/KZ2S3CIX7NEGHPFT4YXCPXBPKE/

Why Argentina’s shock measures may be the best hope for its ailing economy




Your favourite intended new haunt is showing all the signs of being a totally down & out Impoverished Poverty Shocker ;)





Even more of the poor peasants look to be facing being screwed over harder ;)

Probably a bit further down the track there than our own Labour Incompetent Robbo had our own economy headed ;)

Sorry this is a bit off topic but I spoke to a friend in Argentina this morning. There is fury and outrage against the outgoing corrupt criminals that have been in charge of the country more or less for the last 20 years. Milei is closing 9 Ministries and still talking about closing down the Central Bank.

Meanwhile, 5,000 Government officials have so far been found to be claiming full employment benefits while on full and hugely bloated Government salaries. That is just the start. It is well know that no Government project has been funded in the last 2 decades by these criminals that has not included at least 20% on top for the Ministerial Mafia.
Several trucks full of cash were filmed leaving Casa Rosada (the Presidential Palace) full of cash, when Cristina Fernandes was voted out about 12 years ago. Only to be voted in again 4 years later as a VP. Unbelievable.

I sincerely hope Milei will have some success. Sorry about the diversion from the thread.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Sorry this is a bit off topic but I spoke to a friend in Argentina this morning. There is fury and outrage against the outgoing corrupt criminals that have been in charge of the country more or less for the last 20 years. Milei is closing 9 Ministries and still talking about closing down the Central Bank.

Meanwhile, 5,000 Government officials have so far been found to be claiming full employment benefits while on full and hugely bloated Government salaries. That is just the start. It is well know that no Government project has been funded in the last 2 decades by these criminals that has not included at least 20% on top for the Ministerial Mafia.
Several trucks full of cash were filmed leaving Casa Rosada (the Presidential Palace) full of cash, when Cristina Fernandes was voted out about 12 years ago. Only to be voted in again 4 years later as a VP. Unbelievable.

I sincerely hope Milei will have some success. Sorry about the diversion from the thread.

Well it’s not off topic because it parallels what has been happening in New Zealand.

[nztx]

Sorry this is a bit off topic but I spoke to a friend in Argentina this morning. There is fury and outrage against the outgoing corrupt criminals that have been in charge of the country more or less for the last 20 years. Milei is closing 9 Ministries and still talking about closing down the Central Bank.

Meanwhile, 5,000 Government officials have so far been found to be claiming full employment benefits while on full and hugely bloated Government salaries. That is just the start. It is well know that no Government project has been funded in the last 2 decades by these criminals that has not included at least 20% on top for the Ministerial Mafia.
Several trucks full of cash were filmed leaving Casa Rosada (the Presidential Palace) full of cash, when Cristina Fernandes was voted out about 12 years ago. Only to be voted in again 4 years later as a VP. Unbelievable.

I sincerely hope Milei will have some success. Sorry about the diversion from the thread.


Indeed .. have friends there too .. The Officials may not take well to having their lifestyle existences
ripped out from under them .. Argentina but for all the freeloaders & corruption should be a very
wealthy & prosperous Country, the opposite of what it is now.

Hopefully the transition doesn't bring with it, anarchy, violence & chaos that previous Control shifts have resulted in

This is what happens when the Bureaucracy runs wild and thinks it owns the show ..

Of course we have had Labour in who have tendency to pad up the Civil Service to Ceiling height with untold new Departments & Quazi Agencies all with heaps of gophers of any standard freshly installed within, for any /every possible purpose or reason under the sun at large cost without any accountability or efficency ;)

[iceman]

Indeed .. have friends there too .. The Officials may not take well to having their lifestyle existences
ripped out from under them .. Argentina but for all the freeloaders & corruption should be a very
wealthy & prosperous Country, the opposite of what it is now.

Hopefully the transition doesn't bring with it, anarchy, violence & chaos that previous Control shifts have resulted in

This is what happens when the Bureaucracy runs wild and thinks it owns the show ..

Of course we have had Labour in who have tendency to pad up the Civil Service to Ceiling height with untold new Departments & Quazi Agencies all with heaps of gophers of any standard freshly installed within, for any /every possible purpose or reason under the sun at large cost without any accountability or efficency ;)



Yes of course the bureaucracy will fight back. It is highly corrupt from A-Z. One example for me during COVID, we had to fly our crew between Ushuaia and BA on private planes. We needed permits too for landings-takeoffs and moving between states.
There were 2 airlines that could provide the service at the time. One quoted us USD85K per trip, the other USD 165K. We booked the cheaper. Half hour later our manager received an anonymous call to "help" him chose an airline IF he wanted the necessary permits. It happened to be the airline that cost 95% more. We got the message and paid the bill. WHen in Rome, or BA for that matter, do as the locals do. No other option during this corrupt and criminal administration if you wanted anything done.

Pandas dream :-)

[Bjauck]

Sorry this is a bit off topic but I spoke to a friend in Argentina this morning. There is fury and outrage against the outgoing corrupt criminals that have been in charge of the country more or less for the last 20 years. Milei is closing 9 Ministries and still talking about closing down the Central Bank.

Meanwhile, 5,000 Government officials have so far been found to be claiming full employment benefits while on full and hugely bloated Government salaries. That is just the start. It is well know that no Government project has been funded in the last 2 decades by these criminals that has not included at least 20% on top for the Ministerial Mafia.
Several trucks full of cash were filmed leaving Casa Rosada (the Presidential Palace) full of cash, when Cristina Fernandes was voted out about 12 years ago. Only to be voted in again 4 years later as a VP. Unbelievable.

I sincerely hope Milei will have some success. Sorry about the diversion from the thread.
The British invested heavily in an independent Argentina and it became as prosperous as a British Dominion, such as Canada and Australia. Argentina could have been as prosperous as Canada were it not for its succession of corrupt governments since the 1930’s. It underlines the importance of rooting out any sign of corruption.

[davflaws]

Well it’s not off topic because it parallels what has been happening in New Zealand.

Ya What?

Five thousand Government officials taking salary and benefits, truckloads of cash leaving the top guy's residence, in Argentina

NZ 3rd least corrupt country in the world.

I think your prejudices have again overwhelmed your rationality.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Ya What?

Five thousand Government officials taking salary and benefits, truckloads of cash leaving the top guy's residence, in Argentina

NZ 3rd least corrupt country in the world.

I think your prejudices have again overwhelmed your rationality.

To find corruption you have to look & want to do something about it. We have ‘legalised theft’, billions getting trousered and nothing done about it.

[tim23]

My point is that the bureaucrats have to be kept on a leash, otherwise they’ll put the public on one.
Has it ever occurred to you that politicians are also bureaucrats?

[Bjauck]

To find corruption you have to look & want to do something about it. We have ‘legalised theft’, billions getting trousered and nothing done about it.
I am not sure to what you refer. We have a government that must command the confidence of parliament. We also have an Audito-General appointed by the governor-general who must report to Parliament and not to the government.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Has it ever occurred to you that politicians are also bureaucrats?

As far as I know we can vote politicians out.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I am not sure to what you refer. We have a government that must command the confidence of parliament. We also have an Audito-General appointed by the governor-general who must report to Parliament and not to the government.

I don’t expect the Governor General to do anything about the missing billions.

[jonu]

Ya What?

Five thousand Government officials taking salary and benefits, truckloads of cash leaving the top guy's residence, in Argentina

NZ 3rd least corrupt country in the world.

I think your prejudices have again overwhelmed your rationality.

You could start by looking at the bureaucrat tsars who entrenched 5 Waters as much as they could to ensure massive payouts. Public servants my arse!

[davflaws]

You could start by looking at the bureaucrat tsars who entrenched 5 Waters as much as they could to ensure massive payouts. Public servants my arse!

Nz third least corrupt country, Argentina 94th.

Don't talk about your arse. You'll get Balance all excited!

But if you really want to have a rational discussion about 3 Waters, you'll need a better opening reference than "the bureaucrat tsars who entrenched 5 Waters as much as they could to ensure massive payouts"

On the basis of your previous performance in relation to other topics I have tried to engage you on, I'm not holding my breath.

[davflaws]

To find corruption you have to look & want to do something about it. We have ‘legalised theft’, billions getting trousered and nothing done about it.

I'm probably wasting my breath asking you to provide some evidence to support your claims, but until you do, they are simply silly.

[jonu]

Nz third least corrupt country, Argentina 94th.

Don't talk about your arse. You'll get Balance all excited!

But if you really want to have a rational discussion about 3 Waters, you'll need a better opening reference than "the bureaucrat tsars who entrenched 5 Waters as much as they could to ensure massive payouts"

On the basis of your previous performance in relation to other topics I have tried to engage you on, I'm not holding my breath.

You missed the news that the bureaucrat tsars continued hiring and locking in 5 year contracts poste election? Do keep up davflaws.

[davflaws]

You missed the news that the bureaucrat tsars continued hiring and locking in 5 year contracts poste election? Do keep up davflaws.

Keeping up with your misstatements and spin takes more effort than I am generally willing to expend, but on the particular issue of Public Service corruption, here we go again for one more try.

Please provide a reference for your claim. I can't find any evidence that anyone behaved corruptly, acted contrary to lawful instructions, or contravened SSC guidelines.

[blackcap]

Keeping up with your misstatements and spin takes more effort than I am generally willing to expend, but on the particular issue of Public Service corruption, here we go again for one more try.

Please provide a reference for your claim. I can't find any evidence that anyone behaved corruptly, acted contrary to lawful instructions, or contravened SSC guidelines.

The NZ public service is corrupt. Period.

[jonu]

Keeping up with your misstatements and spin takes more effort than I am generally willing to expend, but on the particular issue of Public Service corruption, here we go again for one more try.

Please provide a reference for your claim. I can't find any evidence that anyone behaved corruptly, acted contrary to lawful instructions, or contravened SSC guidelines.

Keep your blinkers on davflaws. Hear no evil, see no evil.

[davflaws]

The NZ public service is corrupt. Period.

Yeah yeah yeah.

And the real Winston actually died of lung cancer many years ago and was replaced with a body double manufactured in a secret underground facility set up by the Rothchilds on the far side of the moon. This simalcrum was originally designed to maintain its vital energy by drinking human blood, but under the coalition agreement has been obliged to find another source of sustenance. Policy documents have been prepared, consultants engaged, and legislation drafted. Meanwhile, the simalcrum continues to age, and arse kissing is being considered as a special temporary emergency source.

Oh - and I forgot - Chris Luxon is actuallly an alien.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yeah yeah yeah.

And the real Winston actually died of lung cancer many years ago and was replaced with a body double manufactured in a secret underground facility set up by the Rothchilds on the far side of the moon. This simalcrum was originally designed to maintain its vital energy by drinking human blood, but under the coalition agreement has been obliged to find another source of sustenance. Policy documents have been prepared, consultants engaged, and legislation drafted. Meanwhile, the simalcrum continues to age, and arse kissing is being considered as a special temporary emergency source.

Oh - and I forgot - Chris Luxon is actuallly an alien.

Legalised theft. Labour borrowing untold billions and funnelling it to ‘their kind of people’. And nothing can be done apparently.

[davflaws]

Legalised theft. Labour borrowing untold billions and funnelling it to ‘their kind of people’. And nothing can be done apparently.

And that's not the worst of it - they apparently also stole your brain.

[Getty]

So are you saying, let “the unwashed” get the message that smoking is dangerous by allowing the corpses to pile up? .

Not quite.
But with so many Maori women taking up smoking, and suffering the health effects, l would hope that after watching Aunty coughing and spluttering for 3 years, before she passes at age 51 and her body is in state at home or on a marae prior to her tangi, that the rest of the whanau would get the message that smoking is not such a good thing.

That she smoked HERSELF to death.
Not Lux, Winston, David or the local dairy owner, but Herself!

[Bill Smith]

Having gone to school with, worked with and socialised with, many Maori over the years, I have not come across one so thick that I felt it would be helpful if I lectured them on their lifestyle.

[Logen Ninefingers]

And that's not the worst of it - they apparently also stole your brain.

Pathetic ad hominem attacks won’t change the fact that billions have disappeared and the NZ public - apart from rusted-on Leftys that is - can see that there is nothing to show for it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The NZ public service is corrupt. Period.

It’s obvious. Look at the plethora of leaks against the new government.

[Daytr]

I hope people realise hiding behind a handle on forum does not protect you against prosecution from a libel suit.

There has been many accusations of bribery & corruption on here with no evidence to back them up.

These are serious accusations, so when you rant as many of the posts are just that, rants, perhaps be aware if someone took issue to what is being written on here, you could end up in serious trouble and quite publicly.

[fungus pudding]

I hope people realise hiding behind a handle on forum does not protect you against prosecution from a libel suit.

There has been many accusations of bribery & corruption on here with no evidence to back them up.

These are serious accusations, so when you rant as many of the posts are just that, rants, perhaps be aware if someone took issue to what is being written on here, you could end up in serious trouble and quite publicly.

Go easy - You'll have everyone trembling in their boots with your nonsense.

[Blue Skies]

Not quite.
But with so many Maori women taking up smoking, and suffering the health effects, l would hope that after watching Aunty coughing and spluttering for 3 years, before she passes at age 51 and her body is in state at home or on a marae prior to her tangi, that the rest of the whanau would get the message that smoking is not such a good thing.

That she smoked HERSELF to death.
Not Lux, Winston, David or the local dairy owner, but Herself!



Regardless of the reasons for the high smoking rate for Maori & Pacifica is between 17% - 20 % which I won't go into here,
- we have a free i.e. taxpayer funded Health System, so if you were the govt, with a long term view & best interests of the country both ethically & financially , would you -

Option 1) trade off world leading Public Health Policy to eliminate entirely preventable illness saving (projected almost $3 billion in future Health care costs & lost productivity) to keep an election bribe of tax cuts ?
OR
Option 2) find the money for tax cuts from somewhere else ?

The Medical profession & others not just here but around the world are incredulous, this govt could be so stupid, so unethical, so shortsighted.

[iceman]

Regardless of the reasons for the high smoking rate for Maori & Pacifica is between 17% - 20 % which I won't go into here,
- we have a free i.e. taxpayer funded Health System, so if you were the govt, with a long term view & best interests of the country both ethically & financially , would you -

Option 1) trade off world leading Public Health Policy to eliminate entirely preventable illness saving (projected almost $3 billion in future Health care costs & lost productivity) to keep an election bribe of tax cuts ?
OR
Option 2) find the money for tax cuts from somewhere else ?

The Medical profession & others not just here but around the world are incredulous, this govt could be so stupid, so unethical, so shortsighted.

Are you seriously suggesting there is a simple way to "eliminate entirely" the health effects of smoking ? Have you read the recent reports in the media about the health issues we are facing with the huge increase in vaping ? You live in fantasy land BS

[nztx]

And that's not the worst of it - they apparently also stole your brain.



Can't be - it seems like it's still working well & in his possession ;)

Sure you weren't thinking of one of Labour's former Ministers that they threw overboard ? ;)

[Daytr]

Go easy - You'll have everyone trembling in their boots with your nonsense.

Really? Ask Jonu who Matt Hill is?
It's just a gentle reminder for their own benefit.
But perhaps even a better reminder of character or lack of.
I.e stop making things up & slinging unsubstantiated mud.

[nztx]

Are you seriously suggesting there is a simple way to "eliminate entirely" the health effects of smoking ? Have you read the recent reports in the media about the health issues we are facing with the huge increase in vaping ? You live in fantasy land BS


The Concepts of Personal Choice & Personal Responsibility must be unheard of when Labour are sort of in / fudging along / desperately clinging on for dear life in there, mostly in it for themselves more than anyone else ;)

[Daytr]

And that's not the worst of it - they apparently also stole your brain.

Only Balance would be disappointed that the aliens elected the lobotomy option rather than the deep probe.... 🤣

[Daytr]

Perhaps those spraying BS about corruption & bribery should count themselves lucky they aren't in the US. Giuliani sure wishes he was in a different jurisdiction.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-fraud-trial-latest-news-b2464611.html

[iceman]

Some home truths about the ferry fiasco, in Steven Joyce's paywalled article in the Herald today: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/labours-record-so-much-spent-so-little-achieved-steven-joyce/GOFNYKJW6JESJCVVEMDIBKJNNQ/


"The interisland ferry decision was the wrong one from the start. As Finance Minister in 2017, I clearly recall being advised that rail-enabled ferries would be a big, expensive mistake in this day and age. All over the world they were being retired, and virtually nobody was building new ones. The market had long since voted with its feet and we should too. Interestingly, at that time KiwiRail agreed.

The only fiscally responsible move was roll-on, roll-off ferries, which do a fine job of shifting freight and people between islands and continents all around the world. With most freight now in containers, getting it from shore to ship and ship to shore is simple and easy. In 2017, it made no sense for New Zealand to be the last country in the world to build ferries with train tracks on them."

[Blue Skies]

Are you seriously suggesting there is a simple way to "eliminate entirely" the health effects of smoking ? Have you read the recent reports in the media about the health issues we are facing with the huge increase in vaping ? You live in fantasy land BS


Obviously vaping is not harm free, but is nothing like as harmful & lethal as tobacco which will kill half its users & leave others with strokes, heart bypasses, limb amputations, major surgery to remove carcinomas of the tongue & mouth etc.
The Vaping argument are rehearsed lines being put out by the Tobacco industry to stop Smokefree2025 & unfortunately repeated by politicians.
Nicotine itself is not poisonous, its the 70+ other carcinoma agents in tobacco smoke which do the damage.
Vapes are mostly water vapour plus nicotine ( but like many things we eat & drink not good for your health)

The projected $3 billion in savings to our taxpayer funded Health System & in lost productivity is based solely on the gains of bringing in Smokefree2025, versus staying the course on our present settings & present trajectory.

There are those that argue its personal choice, but you & I will be paying for these smokers avoidable Healthcare & medical expenses so how do they feel about that ?
That's billions we will be paying for which could be spent on education, hospitals, infrastructure instead.

[Panda-NZ-]

& then compare those well documented health risks to cannibas which many of these people voted to keep criminalised.

[Logen Ninefingers]

& then compare those well documented health risks to cannibas which many of these people voted to keep criminalised.

Leftys: ‘Tobacco bad, Dope good’.

[Balance]

Obviously vaping is not harm free, but is nothing like as harmful & lethal as tobacco which will kill half its users & leave others with strokes, heart bypasses, limb amputations, major surgery to remove carcinomas of the tongue & mouth etc.
The Vaping argument are rehearsed lines being put out by the Tobacco industry to stop Smokefree2025 & unfortunately repeated by politicians.
Nicotine itself is not poisonous, its the 70+ other carcinoma agents in tobacco smoke which do the damage.
Vapes are mostly water vapour plus nicotine ( but like many things we eat & drink not good for your health)

The projected $3 billion in savings to our taxpayer funded Health System & in lost productivity is based solely on the gains of bringing in Smokefree2025, versus staying the course on our present settings & present trajectory.

There are those that argue its personal choice, but you & I will be paying for these smokers avoidable Healthcare & medical expenses so how do they feel about that ?
That's billions we will be paying for which could be spent on education, hospitals, infrastructure instead.

$3 billion in savings? From the same Labour government which promised 100,000 Kiwibuild homes and delivered fxxked all.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Obviously vaping is not harm free, but is nothing like as harmful & lethal as tobacco which will kill half its users & leave others with strokes, heart bypasses, limb amputations, major surgery to remove carcinomas of the tongue & mouth etc.
The Vaping argument are rehearsed lines being put out by the Tobacco industry to stop Smokefree2025 & unfortunately repeated by politicians.
Nicotine itself is not poisonous, its the 70+ other carcinoma agents in tobacco smoke which do the damage.
Vapes are mostly water vapour plus nicotine ( but like many things we eat & drink not good for your health)

The projected $3 billion in savings to our taxpayer funded Health System & in lost productivity is based solely on the gains of bringing in Smokefree2025, versus staying the course on our present settings & present trajectory.

There are those that argue its personal choice, but you & I will be paying for these smokers avoidable Healthcare & medical expenses so how do they feel about that ?
That's billions we will be paying for which could be spent on education, hospitals, infrastructure instead.

‘Common side effects of vaping include dry mouth, coughing, nausea and headaches. Serious long-term side effects of vaping include an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, lung damage, lung disease, seizures, and nicotine addiction and poisoning.
Researchers don't yet know all the effects vaping can have on your body.’

[Daytr]

Some home truths about the ferry fiasco, in Steven Joyce's paywalled article in the Herald today: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/labours-record-so-much-spent-so-little-achieved-steven-joyce/GOFNYKJW6JESJCVVEMDIBKJNNQ/


"The interisland ferry decision was the wrong one from the start. As Finance Minister in 2017, I clearly recall being advised that rail-enabled ferries would be a big, expensive mistake in this day and age. All over the world they were being retired, and virtually nobody was building new ones. The market had long since voted with its feet and we should too. Interestingly, at that time KiwiRail agreed.

The only fiscally responsible move was roll-on, roll-off ferries, which do a fine job of shifting freight and people between islands and continents all around the world. With most freight now in containers, getting it from shore to ship and ship to shore is simple and easy. In 2017, it made no sense for New Zealand to be the last country in the world to build ferries with train tracks on them."

Stopping this fiasco in its tracks pardon the pun, is very much the right thing to do.
Either not the full information was provided I.e the cost of the infrastructure changes required for the new ferries or not the right questions were asked.
I don't believe that the changes to the supporting infrastructure that were obviously going to be required were included in the report to Ministers.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[Panda-NZ-]

Leftys: ‘Tobacco bad, Dope good’.

Righties: Maori smokers are "acceptable losses" to fund tax cuts.

[Blue Skies]

Some home truths about the ferry fiasco, in Steven Joyce's paywalled article in the Herald today: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/labours-record-so-much-spent-so-little-achieved-steven-joyce/GOFNYKJW6JESJCVVEMDIBKJNNQ/


"The interisland ferry decision was the wrong one from the start. As Finance Minister in 2017, I clearly recall being advised that rail-enabled ferries would be a big, expensive mistake in this day and age. All over the world they were being retired, and virtually nobody was building new ones. The market had long since voted with its feet and we should too. Interestingly, at that time KiwiRail agreed.

The only fiscally responsible move was roll-on, roll-off ferries, which do a fine job of shifting freight and people between islands and continents all around the world. With most freight now in containers, getting it from shore to ship and ship to shore is simple and easy. In 2017, it made no sense for New Zealand to be the last country in the world to build ferries with train tracks on them."



I strongly disagree with this, yes rail capable ferries are being replaced around the world,- but with rail capable long bridges & rail capable long tunnels.
But although its only 22 kms at the narrowest point, we could never bridge Cook Strait & although ideal couldn't afford to build a rail capable tunnel across the Strait.

So we need that conveyor belt system the boss of Mainfreight talks about where containers on rail cars roll into Wellington or Picton, straight onto the ships and away at the other end with minimal handling.
Otherwise due to all the increased costs & delays & all the logistics of unloading off rail & reloading onto trucks & repeating the same process on the other side of the Strait, (requiring 64 lifts for each container plus Health & Safety ) customers will stick with Road Transport all the way from Cape Reinga to Bluff resulting in thousands of heavy container & logging trucks damaging roads which were never built for them, congestion, etc.

Stephen Joyce has a barrow to push, he's a paid lobbyist.

[nztx]

Leftys: ‘Tobacco bad, Dope good’.

probably explains fried brain syndrome shining through from some posts on here ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

Inside Labours vaping nightmare -

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/494422/younger-students-avoiding-school-bathrooms-as-vapers-take-over

‘Around the country, high school students are rushing home after school, bursting through the door and heading straight to the bathroom.

Secondary schools are grappling with how to deal with vaping students commandeering bathrooms at break times and between classes.

Parents are worried their children feel too intimidated to use school bathrooms because older students are in there vaping.

One Wellington parent said her son holds on all day and, initially, she didn't understand why.

After seeing other parents' concerns on a school Facebook page, she discovered her son doesn't use the toilets because students are vaping in the cubicles.

"I put two and two together and realised, maybe that's why my son had a bladder infection. He won't use the toilets at school".

Another parent from the same Wellington school said her daughter in year nine can't get in the door.

"The bathrooms with doors have got people behind them vaping and those kids won't come out to let other kids use the toilet".

She said that makes it difficult for students who are dealing with their first periods at school.

"Twice so far this year, I've had a call from the school to pick up my daughter because she's sick. But it's actually been that she's become soiled because she can't access the bathrooms to clean herself up or get changed."

The school's principal admits bathrooms are used for vaping.

But he said only a small handful of students vape on campus and the school is working to stop them.

"We do not want students vaping on site. We do not accept that, that is not part of our school vision or values and we do take it really seriously in our kura".

The principal said his school has a system so teachers are clear about why students are outside the classroom during lesson time.

Teachers are also on duty during breaks, with specific instructions to monitor bathrooms.

Last term, as vaping in the school became a growing problem, he said the senior leadership team began checking hallways and bathrooms between classes.

"If a member of the senior leadership team were to walk into the bathroom, there's a student in a cubicle and there's a big puff of vape mist that rises from that cubicle, absolutely we will be talking about that students behaviour with that student".

The principal said a mixture of education about the health risks of vaping and disciplinary action will make a difference.

But he said the government could do more to stop teenagers accessing vape products and better support schools to help their students quit.’

[nztx]

I strongly disagree with this, yes rail capable ferries are being replaced around the world,- but with rail capable long bridges & rail capable long tunnels.
But although its only 22 kms at the narrowest point, we could never bridge Cook Strait & although ideal couldn't afford to build a rail capable tunnel across the Strait.

So we need that conveyor belt system the boss of Mainfreight talks about where containers on rail cars roll into Wellington or Picton, straight onto the ships and away at the other end with minimal handling.
Otherwise due to all the increased costs & delays & all the logistics of unloading off rail & reloading onto trucks & repeating the same process on the other side of the Strait, (requiring 64 lifts for each container plus Health & Safety ) customers will stick with Road Transport all the way from Cape Reinga to Bluff resulting in thousands of heavy container & logging trucks damaging roads which were never built for them, congestion, etc.

Stephen Joyce has a barrow to push, he's a paid lobbyist.


A long tunnel through quake prone numerous faultline seabed - sounds like another wishful dream ready for a larger blowout ;)

that's before more shakers like happened in Seddon or earlier ones in Wairarapa or Marlborough happen ..

Now I heard it all :)

TransPower's unique ability & the long saga with cables between the islands should be lesson in itself on how things can go badly wrong, and that's before even putting vehicles, trains or people down there on the bottom between the islands ;)


The way the Left's cost blow-outs and escalating project hike ups have been going, it's probably cheaper now to fly everything across the strait & forget anything inbetween that looks like Rail ;)

How the h4ll do KiwiFail always manage to screw up their costings so badly or make things too hard / blow things off the wall and out through the ceiling ? ;)

Or is it a combination with the grafted in Political bods from the ranks of the Comrades that the Left always tend to wind up with on board in Welly and their unique ability to want grandiose projects but lacking slightest comprehension of practicalities, timelines, real costs or escalating costs, if it don't get badly ferk*d up along the way before even leaving the expensive project design & consultants offices ? ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

Righties: Maori smokers are "acceptable losses" to fund tax cuts.

Nobody is forcing Maori to smoke. Stop being so paternalistic and condescending to Maori, and intimating that they can only ‘be corrected and normalised’ through intervention by ‘the great white father’ government.

[iceman]

I strongly disagree with this, yes rail capable ferries are being replaced around the world,- but with rail capable long bridges & rail capable long tunnels.
But although its only 22 kms at the narrowest point, we could never bridge Cook Strait & although ideal couldn't afford to build a rail capable tunnel across the Strait.

So we need that conveyor belt system the boss of Mainfreight talks about where containers on rail cars roll into Wellington or Picton, straight onto the ships and away at the other end with minimal handling.
Otherwise due to all the increased costs & delays & all the logistics of unloading off rail & reloading onto trucks & repeating the same process on the other side of the Strait, (requiring 64 lifts for each container plus Health & Safety ) customers will stick with Road Transport all the way from Cape Reinga to Bluff resulting in thousands of heavy container & logging trucks damaging roads which were never built for them, congestion, etc.

Stephen Joyce has a barrow to push, he's a paid lobbyist.

So you are saying that you want to spend this taxpayers money on technology that noone else in the World is or will be using anymore ? As an avid Leftie, it doesn't surprise me you think like that and show such contempt for the prudent use of taxpayers money.

I am involved in a business that regularly imports containers to Nelson. We need to get them shipped to Lyttelton or Wellington and then roadfreighted to Nelson. Often the domestic roadfreight is equal or more expensive than the seafreight from Europe or Asia. But even when we get them from Wellington, i.e. across Cook Strait, none of them get lifted anywhere near the 64 lifts you constantly talk about here. It is just silly to say each container is lifted 64 times.
Of course much of the debated issues could be solved with coastal shipping as I've pointed out before including a hugely reduced traffic on our roads. Why is that not being considered ? Of course the Boss of Mainfreight will not like that option so maybe he has a "barrow to push" ?
Health & Safety, yes that is a major nightmare but much of it is absolutely stupid regulations that achieve no safer operations. Hopefully the new Government will slash some of that bureaucratic madness.

It's easy for you to just shoot the article down because you dislike Steven Joyce. Probably because he actually got things done and shows up Labour for how useless they have been.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Taxpayers lose again -

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/totally-inappropriate-5100-of-public-money-spent-on-retirement-gifts-for-doc-boss/

‘Totally inappropriate’: $5100 of public money spent on retirement gifts for DoC boss

[nztx]

Stephen Joyce has a barrow to push, he's a paid lobbyist.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/labours-record-so-much-spent-so-little-achieved-steven-joyce/GOFNYKJW6JESJCVVEMDIBKJNNQ/

Labour’s record - so much spent, so little achieved - Steven Joyce




Article paywalled - but the Title sure is 100% correct

A bit hard for some to digest the real truth ? ;)

[Baa_Baa]

Stopping this fiasco in its tracks pardon the pun, is very much the right thing to do.
Either not the full information was provided I.e the cost of the infrastructure changes required for the new ferries or not the right questions were asked.
I don't believe that the changes to the supporting infrastructure that were obviously going to be required were included in the report to Ministers.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/information-release/official-information-regarding-kiwirails-purchase-new-ferries-information-release

[dobby41]

A long tunnel through quake prone numerous faultline seabed - sounds like another wishful dream ready for a larger blowout ;)

that's before more shakers like happened in Seddon or earlier ones in Wairarapa or Marlborough happen ..

Hence the need for the rail ferries!

[nztx]

Hence the need for the rail ferries!



Oh ferries you say? & not chapters of Labour F&ck-ups like what's been seen ? :)

Every time a cracker - Each new lot of Kiwi Fail rejigged & heightened estimates go over the goalposts at a field even further down the park :)

This is from a national Freight outfit how old - which most would expect it should know what the h4ll it was trying to do or produce .. or is that too much to expect from this tired Rail Transport Dinosaur that seems to be experiencing difficulties in managing even the simple parts of projects ? ;)

what did Labour's 6 years love affair with Ferries & Rail achieve ? .. aside from feathering the nests of a trove of planners & consultants and very little past that ? ;)


How could you have missed this:

"Labour’s record - so much spent, so little achieved "

[Logen Ninefingers]

Hence the need for the rail ferries!

Rail ferries? Turn it up. If you want to get yourself to the South Island then catch a plane, take Bluebridge, use coastal shipping, or swim. Rail is a white elephant but if greenies and lefties want to persevere with it then they should have a whip round amongst themselves and come up with the billions needed, just leave taxpayers out of it thanks.

[tim23]

Oh ferries you say? & not chapters of Labour F&ck-ups like what's been seen ? :)

Every time a cracker - Each new lot of Kiwi Fail rejigged & heightened estimates go over the goalposts at a field even further down the park :)

This is from a national Freight outfit how old - which most would expect it should know what the h4ll it was trying to do or produce .. or is that too much to expect from this tired Rail Transport Dinosaur that seems to be experiencing difficulties in managing even the simple parts of projects ? ;)

what did Labour's 6 years love affair with Ferries & Rail achieve ? .. aside from feathering the nests of a trove of planners & consultants and very little past that ? ;)


How could you have missed this:

"Labour’s record - so much spent, so little achieved "

And your lot are feathering landlords - just as first home buyers were starting to get a better turn.

[Bjauck]

Rail ferries? Turn it up. If you want to get yourself to the South Island then catch a plane, take Bluebridge, use coastal shipping, or swim. Rail is a white elephant but if greenies and lefties want to persevere with it then they should have a whip round amongst themselves and come up with the billions needed, just leave taxpayers out of it thanks.
NZ has the topography that suits ships and planes more than trains!

[nztx]

And your lot are feathering landlords - just as first home buyers were starting to get a better turn.


Better Turn =

Interest rates more than doubled, Insurance costs up due to Labour's crimefest, Rates Up as every Local Body
tries to recover all the extra oncosts, COL Up off the wall .. Wages & Salaries kept up ? - Yeah Nah Nah

Foreclosures on their way up now, Unemployment on the way up , Business Failures & Bankruptcies both on the way up now

How many who jumped in will be facing imminent further disaster from the games that Robbo and the Awe-some man from the RB were blindly playing to cover their asses for a bit of largescale Covid bank robbery ? ;)

Always happens when the Left leave behind their toxic messes & large 'Too Hard" pile ;)

How many COL adjustments did Robbo toss out hoping to briefly fill the gap after the event but forgetting
the tax equations on increased wages & other ramp ups ? ;)

The last nine months of cluelessness have been a bit bare of COL payouts, haven't they ? ;)

Wonder why ?

Large Potholes everywhere folks, but then everyone knew that would be the case ;)

This is what you and the Labour fanboys club get when we get clueless in Govt ;)


Perhaps our friend was one of the lucky few beneficiaries of Ardern's 'Free Houses for Everyone" ? ;)

Has to be at least one out there with the Sun Shines even in the foulest of weather mentality .. doesn't there ? ;)

[Getty]

Better Turn =

Interest rates more than doubled, Insurance costs up due to Labour's crimefest, Rates Up as every Local Body
tries to recover all the extra oncosts, COL Up off the wall .. Wages & Salaries kept up ? - Yeah Nah Nah

Foreclosures on their way up now, Unemployment on the way up , Business Failures & Bankruptcies both on the way up now

Always happens when the Left leave behind their toxic messes & large 'Too Hard" pile ;)

How many COL adjustments did Robbo toss out hoping to briefly fill the gap after the event but forgetting
the tax equations on increased wages & other ramp ups ? ;)

This is what you and the Labour fanboys club get when we get clueless in Govt ;)

Ah, but they will tell you it's more important to have diversity in Parliament, than address any of those issues!

[nztx]

Ah, but they will tell you it's more important to diversity in Parliament, than address any of those issues!


But then they must have run out of barrels to bend them over, so had to start throwing them overboard ;)

The ones that dived overboard must have recognised Hard Labour ahead when they saw it and no quantity of conch shells was likely to be large enough to ever be able to save the day for the remaining gleeful peasants who thought they were then finally in control of all things not happening well ;)

Did anyone learn anything much ? .. aside from the shock revelation that sank in later - if you rob the Bank well enough first time, you don't get a second chance to repeat it ;)

No doubt some of the doubting peasants in control must have ventured closer to the vault thinking they had been mislead and ripped off :)

Such disappointment that must have delivered up for those doubting what the Fat Money Boy was signalling :)

[tim23]

Better Turn =

Interest rates more than doubled, Insurance costs up due to Labour's crimefest, Rates Up as every Local Body
tries to recover all the extra oncosts, COL Up off the wall .. Wages & Salaries kept up ? - Yeah Nah Nah

Foreclosures on their way up now, Unemployment on the way up , Business Failures & Bankruptcies both on the way up now

How many who jumped in will be facing imminent further disaster from the games that Robbo and the Awe-some man from the RB were blindly playing to cover their asses for a bit of largescale Covid bank robbery ? ;)

Always happens when the Left leave behind their toxic messes & large 'Too Hard" pile ;)

How many COL adjustments did Robbo toss out hoping to briefly fill the gap after the event but forgetting
the tax equations on increased wages & other ramp ups ? ;)

The last nine months of cluelessness have been a bit bare of COL payouts, haven't they ? ;)

Wonder why ?

Large Potholes everywhere folks, but then everyone knew that would be the case ;)

This is what you and the Labour fanboys club get when we get clueless in Govt ;)


Perhaps our friend was one of the lucky few beneficiaries of Ardern's 'Free Houses for Everyone" ? ;)

Has to be at least one out there with the Sun Shines even in the foulest of weather mentality .. doesn't there ? ;)

Assuming you may been invited to a party and then stayed too long you typically end up with a hangover - that’s what we are enduring now - to blame it all on the last government is disingenuous.

[nztx]

Assuming you may been invited to a party and then stayed too long you typically end up with a hangover - that’s what we are enduring now - to blame it all on the last government is disingenuous.


Well that's what your mob spent most of the past six years doing until all of a sudden in a backdrop of Labour achieving absolutely nothing at a huge cost with nothing to show for it - the blame game wasn't going to work for the Left ;)

Must have hurt a bit when grim reality of All the Excuses were only going show Labour up for a bunch of clueless incompetents where even the Fairytale Princess had abandoned the show pronto hit home ;)

Don't think that the drunken sleepwalking antics in Govt pews over the 6 years didn't go unnoticed ..

Probably why so many were begging to dive or be thrown overboard with urgency ;)


Some of Labour's best & most most experienced talent , all gone & flushed :)

It didn't happen for no reason ..

[tim23]

Well that's what your mob spent most of the past six years doing until all of a sudden in a backdrop of Labour achieving absolutely nothing at a huge cost with nothing to show for it - the blame game wasn't going to work for the Left ;)

Must have hurt a bit when grim reality of All the Excuses were only going show Labour up for a bunch of clueless incompetents where even the Fairytale Princess had abandoned the show pronto hit home ;)

Don't think that the drunken sleepwalking antics in Govt pews over the 6 years didn't go unnoticed ..

Probably why so many were begging to dive or be thrown overboard with urgency ;)


Some of Labour's best & most most experienced talent , all gone & flushed :)

It didn't happen for no reason ..
Clearly I was wrong to assume you might have been invited to a party.

[nztx]

Clearly I was wrong to assume you might have been invited to a party.


Were you ? :) Good for you

Hopefully you enjoyed the recent going away party on a budget ..

[Bjauck]

And your lot are feathering landlords - just as first home buyers were starting to get a better turn.
True. They kept Labour’s 39% top income tax rate hike, so they could cut tax on investor housing and leveraged capital gains. It won’t all be the National Party coalition’s fault of course, but Last young kiwi priced out of NZ housing, turn off the switch?

[777]

And your lot are feathering landlords - just as first home buyers were starting to get a better turn.

So explain why real estate rental business should be treated differently to any other business.

[iceman]

So explain why real estate rental business should be treated differently to any other business.

Obviously it was a Labour ideology that everyone should get a house from Housing New Zealand, not from private landlords. They successfully made it near on impossible to make ends meet as a private landlord with ever increasing legislation aimed squarely against private landlords on the one hand and Housing NZ paying competing in the market with often ridiculous buy offers way above market value on the other hand.
The result clearly is much higher rents for tenants that they otherwise would have been, much of it subsidised by Government.

It is great to see some sanity returning to this sector, but sadly too late for many that have already sold out or will be doing so soon.

[Bjauck]

So explain why real estate rental business should be treated differently to any other business.
Two questions.

Do you mean that borrowing to leverage any other business should be as easy as borrowing to leverage residential investment property?

Are people’s homes really just like any other business?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Labour set booby traps for the Right all the time. Changing conventions on taxation vis a vis landlords, then if National restore the previous status quo they are ‘looking after their rich mates’. Likewise, Labour change the convention on how benefits are calculated, then if National restore the previous status quo they are ‘stealing money from beneficiaries’ or - even an even better narrative from the Lefts point of view - ‘stealing money from beneficiaries to fund tax cuts’.

The key foundations stones of the Lefts strategy are as follows:

National: to be portrayed as literally hating ‘the poor’ and always ‘looking after their rich mates’.

Landlords: greedy, grasping, selfish, evil, unjust, undeserving.

Beneficiaries: downtrodden, saintly, victims.

Tax cuts: bad, unjust, invariably portrayed as ‘funded through cuts to essential public services & benefits’.

Government spending: must continuously increase exponentially to fund ‘critical public services’. Any cuts to government spending ‘remove essential public services’.

Labour always act to set traps for the Right in order to drive their disingenuous narrative. They are constantly on the look-out for new ways to do this. They just can’t make it too overt.

Say Labour were to announce a one-off levy of $10,000 on every landlord in NZ to pay for ‘critically needed infrastructure’. Of course they would not to this - too obvious, too overt, but ‘the trap’ would be essentially the same: if National scrapped it they would be described as ‘looking after their rich mates’.

Say Labour were to announce a one-off grant of $10,000 to every beneficiary to ‘reduce poverty and close the inequality gap’. Of course they would not to this - too obvious, too overt, but ‘the trap’ would be essentially the same: if National scrapped it they would be described as ‘stealing money from the poor to fund tax cuts’.

[Balance]

Two questions.

Do you mean that borrowing to leverage any other business should be as easy as borrowing to leverage residential investment property?

Are people’s homes really just like any other business?

Rental properties are indeed like any other businesses. It has been the case since time immemorial and rentals provide a critical service to society.

Why should other businesses be as easy to leverage as rental properties? They typically involve more risk and why should lenders assume the risks?

One of the answers to NZ’s pre-occupation is a CGT which politicians avoid like the plague. Not the fault of property investors.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Labour set booby traps for the Right all the time. Changing conventions on taxation vis a vis landlords, then if National restore the previous status quo they are ‘looking after their rich mates’. Likewise, Labour change the convention on how benefits are calculated, then if National restore the previous status quo they are ‘stealing money from beneficiaries’ or - even an even better narrative from the Lefts point of view - ‘stealing money from beneficiaries to fund tax cuts’.

The key foundations stones of the Lefts strategy are as follows:

National: to be portrayed as literally hating ‘the poor’ and always ‘looking after their rich mates’.

Landlords: greedy, grasping, selfish, evil, unjust, undeserving.

Beneficiaries: downtrodden, saintly, victims.

Tax cuts: bad, unjust, invariably portrayed as ‘funded through cuts to essential public services & benefits’.

Government spending: must continuously increase exponentially to fund ‘critical public services’. Any cuts to government spending ‘remove essential public services’.

Labour always act to set traps for the Right in order to drive their disingenuous narrative. They are constantly on the look-out for new ways to do this. They just can’t make it too overt.

Say Labour were to announce a one-off levy of $10,000 on every landlord in NZ to pay for ‘critically needed infrastructure’. Of course they would not to this - too obvious, too overt, but ‘the trap’ would be essentially the same: if National scrapped it they would be described as ‘looking after their rich mates’.

Say Labour were to announce a one-off grant of $10,000 to every beneficiary to ‘reduce poverty and close the inequality gap’. Of course they would not to this - too obvious, too overt, but ‘the trap’ would be essentially the same: if National scrapped it they would be described as ‘stealing money from the poor to fund tax cuts’.

This business of ‘setting traps’ became even more pronounced since rabid marxist spin-doctor Craig Renney became an advisor to Grant Robertson. Renney is now back in the union movement as ‘Chief CTU Economist and Director of Policy’. Who he ‘really works for’ is moot anyway: Labour is simply the parliamentary wing of the Union movement.

Sometimes he’ll pop up on TVNZ as ‘an economist’ casting doubt on Nationals numbers -

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/31/numbers-behind-nationals-tax-policy-a-bit-murky-economist/

(And in response Nicola Willis said:
"Can I just point out that Craig Renney, who you've just had on; his immediate prior job to the one he has now was advising Grant Robertson," she said. "And the CTU, who he works for, yesterday put up attack ads about the National Party.)

Sometimes he’ll be writing columns in The Post (available on the web at Stuff) such as
‘KiwiRail ferry costs – prioritise New Zealand, or prioritise landlords?’ (Again, witness the disingenuous narrative is ‘cutting essential public services to look after their rich mates’.)

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350132969/kiwirail-ferry-costs-prioritise-new-zealand-or-prioritise-landlords?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff

Renney understands propaganda like nobody else. He knows that if you call your policy / legislation ‘Fair Pay Agreements’ then if National removes it it makes it seem that they hate ‘fair pay’. It’s clever because it is so easy to do.

[Bjauck]

Rental properties are indeed like any other businesses. It has been the case since time immemorial and rentals provide a critical service to society.

Why should other businesses be as easy to leverage as rental properties? They typically involve more risk and why should lenders assume the risks?

One of the answers to NZ’s pre-occupation is a CGT which politicians avoid like the plague. Not the fault of property investors. Each business and investment activity has different legislation and rules with which to comply.and they also have different mix of returns and taxes and/or subsidies. So obviously residential investment is treated differently. In NZ investor real estate does not contend with a general CGT or stamp duties that other countries impose. Owning someone else’s home faces a different set of business circumstances, legislation and service requirements to producing ball bearings.

In feudal times life, shelter and business activity may well have been at the whim of Seigneur and Sovereign.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Each business and investment activity has different legislation and rules with which to comply.and they also have different mix of returns and taxes and/or subsidies. So obviously residential investment is treated differently. In NZ investor real estate does not contend with a general CGT or stamp duties that other countries impose. Owning someone else’s home faces a different set of business circumstances, legislation and service requirements to producing ball bearings.

In feudal times life, shelter and business activity may well have been at the whim of Seigneur and Sovereign.

Ho hum, what are you on about? Ball bearings? lol.
The law is being returned to where it was for decades before Grant Robertson / Craig Renney messed about with it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Leftists, we are on to you. We see your obvious traps, your tiresome harping on disingenuous narratives, your dark heart of malice.
If 'the revolution to dismantle capitalism' was announced today, would the likes of Grant Robertson, Craig Renney, Jacinda Ardern sit passively in their homes, or would they grab whatever implements were handy and rush to attack the nearest 'manifestations of the capitalist apparatus'?

[Bjauck]

Ho hum, what are you on about? Ball bearings? lol.
The law is being returned to where it was for decades before Grant Robertson / Craig Renney messed about with it. Sure residential investors are entitled to more untaxed gains. I can’t wait for the Coalition reform to financial arrangements Capital gains tax and reform to FIF in which pension funds in effect pay a wealth tax. I am not holding my breath as it is residential property investors who have more electoral clout…So NZ born again feudalism will continue…

[Logen Ninefingers]

Sure residential investors are entitled to more untaxed gains. I can’t wait for the Coalition reform to financial arrangements Capital gains tax and reform to FIF in which pension funds in effect pay a wealth tax. I am not holding my breath as it is residential property investors who have more electoral clout…So NZ born again feudalism will continue…

Moan, whinge, bleat. More than that, you resort to hysteria and outright idiocy. Your comments are a gross insult to the millions of human beings that actually lived under real feudalism.

Under feudalism, peasants lived in a state of serfdom, a condition that essentially turned them into rural slaves. The rigid and cruel medieval system of law and order that accompanied feudalism succeeded as a tool for social control and largely prevented peasant resistance or rebellion.

In the Middle Ages, infant and child mortality was high because of various diseases and children's ills, and childbirth itself was risky. The average expected lifespan was 30 to 34 years - skewed by high infant mortality. But if you survived the dangerous ten first years, you could expect to live up to 70.

[Bjauck]

Logen Ninefingers

Moan, whinge, bleat. More than that, you resort to hysteria and outright idiocy. Your comments are a gross insult to the millions of human beings that actually lived under real feudalism Lol. Sure hyperbole. Have you never used hyperbole?
^
Under feudalism, peasants lived in a state of serfdom, a condition that essentially turned them into rural slaves. The rigid and cruel medieval system of law and order that accompanied feudalism succeeded as a tool for social control and largely prevented peasant resistance or rebellion. You do realise that we are still in a feudal state under The Sovereign Charles 111. His prerogative powers are administered by Luxon.

In the Middle Ages, infant and child mortality was high because of various diseases and children's ills, and childbirth itself was risky. The average expected lifespan was 30 to 34 years - skewed by high infant mortality. But if you survived the dangerous ten first years, you could expect to live up to 70.
Indeed. Thanks to scientific research coupled with social reformers and social democracy we are where we are today. We need to be vigilant that these reforms are not rolled back - especially protecting the most vulnerable.

[Daytr]

Leftists, we are on to you. We see your obvious traps, your tiresome harping on disingenuous narratives, your dark heart of malice.
If 'the revolution to dismantle capitalism' was announced today, would the likes of Grant Robertson, Craig Renney, Jacinda Ardern sit passively in their homes, or would they grab whatever implements were handy and rush to attack the nearest 'manifestations of the capitalist apparatus'?

Look up. You can't see them, you can't hear them but the black helicopters are there...

Look down, I mean under the bed as that's where the reds are.

What feckin planet are you on peddling such garbage. You & McCarthy would have got on like a house on fire.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Indeed. Thanks to social reformers and social democracy we are where we are today. We need to be vigilant that these reforms are not rolled back - especially protecting the most vulnerable.

Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. We need to ensure that the extraordinary human progress made due to the Industrial Revolution is not destroyed by Marxist wreckers intent on eviscerating individual freedoms and ushering in totalitarianism in pursuit of a utopian pipe-dream. The USSR remains the great 'Animal Farm' warning to humanity of the ultimate outcome of Leftist objectives. So-called Social Democracy is a Marxist trojan horse by which latent revolutionaries seek to bring about destruction and enslavement.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Look up. You can't see them, you can't hear them but the black helicopters are there...

Look down, I mean under the bed as that's where the reds are.

What feckin planet are you on peddling such garbage. You & McCarthy would have got on like a house on fire.

If you think the Left aren't real and don't have the ultimate aim of bringing down the so-called 'capitalist system', then it's you who are on a different planet.

[Daytr]

If you think the Left aren't real and don't have the ultimate aim of bringing down the so-called 'capitalist system', then it's you who are on a different planet.

By the Left you mean pretty much half the population. Get a grip Joe.
How do you take yourself seriously let alone what anyone else thinks?

This is serious loony tunes paranoid BS.

[Logen Ninefingers]

By the Left you mean pretty much half the population. Get a grip Joe.
How do you take yourself seriously let alone what anyone else thinks?

This is serious loony tunes paranoid BS.

You sound desperate.

[Daytr]

You sound desperate.

I'm not the one with paranoid delusions. 🤣

[fungus pudding]

I'm not the one with paranoid delusions. ��

So how would you describe your delusions?

[Balance]

So how would you describe your delusions?

12,000 new state houses built by Labour for a start of his delusions! :t_up:

[tim23]

You sound desperate.
Desperate maybe but right on the money.

[Bjauck]

Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. We need to ensure that the extraordinary human progress made due to the Industrial Revolution is not destroyed by Marxist wreckers intent on eviscerating individual freedoms and ushering in totalitarianism in pursuit of a utopian pipe-dream. The USSR remains the great 'Animal Farm' warning to humanity of the ultimate outcome of Leftist objectives. So-called Social Democracy is a Marxist trojan horse by which latent revolutionaries seek to bring about destruction and enslavement. For someone who professes to support capitalism, I fail to see why you support the reforms to make residential land investment bear even less of a tax burden on its returns. That seems to encourage more of the landlord-peasant dynamic with capitalist enterprise bearing proportionately more of the tax burden.

[nztx]

Gejus George .. the stiff cheese must have been really off to cause some of the delusions now coming out ;)

It's obvious that what remains of Labour must be having difficulty raising even half an ass onto a bench
for the concentration of hurt feelings appearing with nowhere else to go ;)

[dobby41]

Oh ferries you say?


Rail ferries? Turn it up. If you want to get yourself to the South Island then catch a plane, take Bluebridge, use coastal shipping, or swim. Rail is a white elephant but if greenies and lefties want to persevere with it then they should have a whip round amongst themselves and come up with the billions needed, just leave taxpayers out of it thanks.
Yip - ferries I say, with rail.
Rail is much more efficient and gets trucks off our roads.
Trucks are the elephant (for long distances).
How about we get some decent coastal shipping as well? (Remember National effectively got rid of that.)

[dobby41]

12,000 new state houses built by Labour for a start of his delusions! :t_up:

Don't worry - National will start selling them off again so we will never get out of the housing dilemma we are in.

[tim23]

Don't worry - National will start selling them off again so we will never get out of the housing dilemma we are in.
And National have form in that regard.

[Blue Skies]

Chris Luxon hypocrisy exposed once again, even the National Party aligned Taxpayers Union criticising the hypocrisy of Luxon telling everyone else 'in the real world' you pay for your own Te Reo lessons, while getting the taxpayer to pay for his.
He's a Public Servant for goodness sake, just like the other Public Servants he's criticising & saying should pay for their own Te Reo lessons.

Bit like taking the EV subsidy (twice) he criticised & now stopping for everybody else.
Hope he shows some integrity & leadership, admits it's not right & pays them back.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/absolute-hypocrisy-hipkins-taxpayers-union-among-pms-critics-over-publicly-funded-te-reo-lessons/

[tim23]

Chris Luxon hypocrisy exposed once again, even the National Party aligned Taxpayers Union criticising the hypocrisy of Luxon telling everyone else 'in the real world' you pay for your own Te Reo lessons, while getting the taxpayer to pay for his.
He's a Public Servant for goodness sake, just like the other Public Servants he's criticising & saying should pay for their own Te Reo lessons.

Bit like taking the EV subsidy (twice) he criticised & now stopping for everybody else.
Hope he shows some integrity & leadership, admits it's not right & pays them back.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/absolute-hypocrisy-hipkins-taxpayers-union-among-pms-critics-over-publicly-funded-te-reo-lessons/
Do as I say but not as I do!

[Logen Ninefingers]

If Luxon qualified for something from the government then he had every right to it, just like every other NZer. Where do Leftys get this idea "he must pay it back"? No, he doesn't need to. P*ss off, perpetually whingeing Leftys.

[Balance]

Chris Luxon hypocrisy exposed once again, even the National Party aligned Taxpayers Union criticising the hypocrisy of Luxon telling everyone else 'in the real world' you pay for your own Te Reo lessons, while getting the taxpayer to pay for his.
He's a Public Servant for goodness sake, just like the other Public Servants he's criticising & saying should pay for their own Te Reo lessons.

Bit like taking the EV subsidy (twice) he criticised & now stopping for everybody else.
Hope he shows some integrity & leadership, admits it's not right & pays them back.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/absolute-hypocrisy-hipkins-taxpayers-union-among-pms-critics-over-publicly-funded-te-reo-lessons/

There is a world of difference between government funded language lessons (it's called education) for civil servants & government employees vs paying bonuses to civil servants because they learnt & speak te reo Maori.

Would not expect the parasites and losers like 'Spray & Walk Away' Hipkins and the CTU to know the difference but as usual we get the resident Labour shills (Losers) Blue Skies & tim23 with their sanctimonious garbage here.

Anyway, it's all good stuff as it shows how desperate & clueless Labour & Hipkins are if that's the best shot they can fire!

Pathetic, petty and majority of NZers will see through all of that garbage.

Here's hypocrisy in action:

"one source of truth!"

"most transparent government ever"

'no bullying in Labour"

[Balance]

Meanwhile, not only has Kainga Ora's staff numbers blown out but its debts have too since Labour set it up.

Kāinga Ora's level of debt had grown from $2.7b in 2018 to $12.3b in June of this year!

Taking KO's boast that it has delivered 12,000 additional units for housing (note - not built or new), that's $800,000 per unit!

Some consultants and staff have sure done superbly well out of KO - not so the waiting list for state accommodation which is now over 20,000+.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/505019/former-pm-sir-bill-english-to-head-review-of-kainga-ora

[iceman]

Do as I say but not as I do!

You guys are hysterical. Every Leader Of The Opposition gets a limited budget to run their office. Luxon chose to spend a very small part of it on learning Te Reo rather than on something else.
I note you Labour supporters have not mentioned the news out today that Kainga Ora in the last 4-5 years has increased tenant numbers from 6000-24000, , back office staff numbers increased by 1450, debt risen from 2.7 B to 12.3 B and is running at a huge loss each and every year. It isn't surprising seeing they have been outbidding and overpaying for properties all over the country, filling lots of the houses of people that do serious damage to them requiring regular R&M and not chasing overdue rent. Not a very sustainable setup.

But lets debate a few thousand dollars of expenditure on education for The Leader of The Opposition.

[Logen Ninefingers]

There is a world of difference between government funded language lessons (it's called education) for civil servants & government employees vs paying bonuses to civil servants because they learnt & speak te reo Maori.

Would not expect the parasites and losers like 'Spray & Walk Away' Hipkins and the CTU to know the difference but as usual we get the resident Labour shills (Losers) Blue Skies & tim23 with their sanctimonious garbage here.

Anyway, it's all good stuff as it shows how desperate & clueless Labour & Hipkins are if that's the best shot they can fire!

Pathetic, petty and majority of NZers will see through all of that garbage.

Here's hypocrisy in action:

"one source of truth!"

"most transparent government ever"

'no bullying in Labour"

Leftys can't see the difference. They HATE 'rich people', landlords, the tax paying middle class, Pakeha, business owners....it's the reason they've been booted from power despite the best efforts of their media mates.

[ynot]

Leftys can't see the difference. They HATE 'rich people', landlords, the tax paying middle class, Pakeha, business owners....it's the reason they've been booted from power despite the best efforts of their media mates.

Woke lefties have consumed far more oxygen over the last six years disproportionate to their entitlement. Time for some reality.

[davflaws]

L

The key foundations stones of the Lefts strategy are as follows:

National: to be portrayed as literally hating ‘the poor’
.

Read just a few of Balance's posts.

[Balance]

Read just a few of Balance's posts.

I am not a member of the National Party and have not voted for the National Party in the last 2 elections. I have voted for Labour as well as National in elections prior.

The Labour government under Hipkins, Ardern, Robertson & the Maori cabal is a breeder of parasites, beneficiaries and losers using racial, social, economic and monetary divisive policies - FACT.

And NZers turfed them out - from the most popular government under MMP (purely because of Covid) to the pathetic shell that it is today because NZers saw through just how power mad Labour was while totally clueless and useless in governing NZ.

There goes your argument.

[tim23]

You guys are hysterical. Every Leader Of The Opposition gets a limited budget to run their office. Luxon chose to spend a very small part of it on learning Te Reo rather than on something else.
I note you Labour supporters have not mentioned the news out today that Kainga Ora in the last 4-5 years has increased tenant numbers from 6000-24000, , back office staff numbers increased by 1450, debt risen from 2.7 B to 12.3 B and is running at a huge loss each and every year. It isn't surprising seeing they have been outbidding and overpaying for properties all over the country, filling lots of the houses of people that do serious damage to them requiring regular R&M and not chasing overdue rent. Not a very sustainable setup.

But let’s debate a few thousand dollars of expenditure on education for The Leader of The Opposition.
Upon reflection clearly my 9 word sentence was full of hysteria - thanks for pointing that out.

[tim23]

Leftys can't see the difference. They HATE 'rich people', landlords, the tax paying middle class, Pakeha, business owners....it's the reason they've been booted from power despite the best efforts of their media mates.
At a guess I’d imagine there are any number of left leaning Pakeha business owners - I know a few anyway.

[Bjauck]

Chris Luxon hypocrisy exposed once again, even the National Party aligned Taxpayers Union criticising the hypocrisy of Luxon telling everyone else 'in the real world' you pay for your own Te Reo lessons, while getting the taxpayer to pay for his.
He's a Public Servant for goodness sake, just like the other Public Servants he's criticising & saying should pay for their own Te Reo lessons.

Bit like taking the EV subsidy (twice) he criticised & now stopping for everybody else.
Hope he shows some integrity & leadership, admits it's not right & pays them back.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/absolute-hypocrisy-hipkins-taxpayers-union-among-pms-critics-over-publicly-funded-te-reo-lessons/ I think the PM is a special case to be funded. However At bearest minimum a thirty hour state-funded course in the official languages of Māori and NZSL should be provided for each adult if they wish to take it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

At a guess I’d imagine there are any number of left leaning Pakeha business owners - I know a few anyway.

Sure. The marxists will put them against the wall as well.

[Bjauck]

Sure. The marxists will put them against the wall as well.

You’d probably like Rob Muldoon’s dancing Cossacks.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/video/dancing-cossacks

[Logen Ninefingers]

You’d probably like Rob Muldoon’s dancing Cossacks.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/video/dancing-cossacks

Marxists are no joking matter.

[Baa_Baa]

I think the PM is a special case to be funded. However At bearest minimum a thirty hour state-funded course in the official languages of Māori and NZSL should be provided for each adult if they wish to take it.

Why should NZ tax payers fund, pay, for anyone who wants to learn Te Reo or Sign? It's easy enough to access the learning without taxpayers having to pay for it. There's plenty of people who are fluent or learning Te Reo and Sign, who don't need or want tax payers to fund their learning.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Why should NZ tax payers fund, pay, for anyone who wants to learn Te Reo or Sign? It's easy enough to access the learning without taxpayers having to pay for it. There's plenty of people who are fluent or learning Te Reo and Sign, who don't need or want tax payers to fund their learning.

Correct, but creeping socialism doesn’t agree with you.

[nztx]

At a guess I’d imagine there are any number of left leaning Pakeha business owners - I know a few anyway.

Are there ? but Do they know you ? ;)

[nztx]

Correct, but creeping socialism doesn’t agree with you.


I'd far rather they paid me to learn my own Te Lingo & Sign language and the one next door .. at least way they're useful ;)

[nztx]

Leftys can't see the difference. They HATE 'rich people', landlords, the tax paying middle class, Pakeha, business owners....it's the reason they've been booted from power despite the best efforts of their media mates.

If their hatred of wealth is that good, then they will have no objection to refilling the Large Empty hole Robbo left behind by parting with the hauntings of all Kiwisaver wealth they have amassed ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxons-boeing-757-trip-to-australia-in-doubt-as-he-backtracks-on-promise/C3TFC35YAFFPPDKQFMSWOLWPTQ/

PM Christopher Luxon’s Boeing 757 trip to Australia in doubt as he backtracks on promise to use Defence Force jets



The Prime Minister’s ride to Australia is in doubt, with both NZ Defence Force Boeing 757s potentially out of operation on Wednesday when Christopher Luxon is due to fly to Sydney to meet Australian PM Anthony Albanese.

The day trip, Luxon’s first meeting another country’s leader as PM, will still go ahead but the issue with the planes will likely mean a smaller media contingent goes with him.

The former Air New Zealand chief executive accepts the continued failures of the 757s are embarrassing and is recommending the Defence Force “look very closely” at alternatives, but wouldn’t give his thoughts on what could replace the three decade-plus old planes.

Luxon’s initial plan to use a 757 to travel broke a promise he made while Opposition leader when he vowed not to use the “ancient aircraft” to travel internationally if elected, following revelations former PM Chris Hipkins had to take two planes while flying to China in case the first broke down.

Time to ditch the old crates that ferried the broken asses of the Lost Era around when they weren't on blocks out of action ? ;)


Might be time for something more up to date, that the other clueless mob don't know how to fly ;)

[dln]

Maybe a 'second hand corolla' of the sky will do.

[Bjauck]

Why should NZ tax payers fund, pay, for anyone who wants to learn Te Reo or Sign? It's easy enough to access the learning without taxpayers having to pay for it. There's plenty of people who are fluent or learning Te Reo and Sign, who don't need or want tax payers to fund their learning.I am sure there are many who don’t need or want taxpayer subsidies just as there are many who cannot afford courses. Access to a basic course in an official language should not depend on whether you can afford it. There are still adults around who were discouraged from speaking a current official language whilst undertaking state funded compulsory English classes.

[Bjauck]

Correct, but creeping socialism doesn’t agree with you. LOL. Did you go to a private NZ school that received absolutely no taxpayer funding? The state makes political decisions on what it funds. English is the most full-blown socialist language in NZ, in your parlance.

[iceman]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxons-boeing-757-trip-to-australia-in-doubt-as-he-backtracks-on-promise/C3TFC35YAFFPPDKQFMSWOLWPTQ/

PM Christopher Luxon’s Boeing 757 trip to Australia in doubt as he backtracks on promise to use Defence Force jets




Time to ditch the old crates that ferried the broken asses of the Lost Era around when they weren't on blocks out of action ? ;)


Might be time for something more up to date, that the other clueless mob don't know how to fly ;)

This is embarrassing for NZ and has been for years. Our Foreign Minister can't fly on them to Fiji one week and our PM can't fly on them to Australia the next week. This has been going on for years and last time the former PM went to Asia, he had to take a backup plane just in case. They are an absolute joke.

[Balance]

This is embarrassing for NZ and has been for years. Our Foreign Minister can't fly on them to Fiji one week and our PM can't fly on them to Australia the next week. This has been going on for years and last time the former PM went to Asia, he had to take a backup plane just in case. They are an absolute joke.

Labour government could and did spend billions of dollars on consultants to come up with hundreds of useless reports, resulting in even more wastage and inefficiencies, but cannot afford to upgrade our RNZAF (or WTF its’ name is these days).

Shows the depth pf incompetence of and wastage under Ardern, Hipkins and Robertson. Bunch of f…kwits.

[Baa_Baa]

This is embarrassing for NZ and has been for years. Our Foreign Minister can't fly on them to Fiji one week and our PM can't fly on them to Australia the next week. This has been going on for years and last time the former PM went to Asia, he had to take a backup plane just in case. They are an absolute joke.

I guess they’re not allowed to use the brand new P8 ?https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nzdf/our-equipment/aircraft/boeing-p-8a-poseidon/

[Balance]

Everywhere that one looks, Labour's mismanagement & incompetence abound - by billions and billions of dollars!

The review into Kainga Ora will unquestionably not only uncover wastage and inefficiencies on a grand scale, but imo corruption as well given the scale of wanton and reckless spending using debt by KO.

Some stats on KO :

1. Kainga Ora management positions have ballooned by 86% in 2 years.

2. Annual cost of the base salary now tops $100 million. They employed 319 managers in June of 2020 @ $58 million and in November 2022 they have 594 managers @ $103 million. Average salary is $173,000 base pay.

3. Despite or in spite of the 86% increase in managers, Kainga Ora unpaid rents in 2017 sat at about $750,000, under Labour it is $17 million, up 2200% – this is unrecoverable debt that the tax payer has to pay.

4. Kāinga Ora borrowed $2 billion to bid for development land against private developers – paying over value to obtain land to build state houses on rather than letting private sector do it.

5. Goes on and on ....

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/125751/government-has-asked-former-finance-minister-bill-english-review-governments

" ....ministers had received “worrying advice” about the financial situation of Kāinga Ora, since taking office in November.

“We are not releasing that information at this time as it is commercially sensitive, but it confirms that an independent review is the right course of action at this time”.

[Bjauck]

Labour government could and did spend billions of dollars on consultants to come up with hundreds of useless reports, resulting in even more wastage and inefficiencies, but cannot afford to upgrade our RNZAF (or WTF its’ name is these days).

Shows the depth pf incompetence of and wastage under Ardern, Hipkins and Robertson. Bunch of f…kwits.
Didn’t John Key’s RNZAF Boeing break down when he was overseas, well into his time as PM.

NZ is a small country. Why don’t they lease a commercial jet for some jaunts overseas. Anything that works reliably. I think even the UK PM does that sometimes.

We don’t need a big American-style shiny presidential airforce one.

Military spending was 1.2% of GDP in 2008,; 1% in 2016; 1.2% last year.

[Balance]

Didn’t John Key’s RNZAF Boeing break down when he was overseas, well into his time as PM.

NZ is a small country. Why don’t they lease a commercial jet for some jaunts overseas. I think even the UK PM does that sometimes.

We don’t need a big American-style shiny airforce one.

It did but John Key's government did not wantonly waste billions of dollars on consultants.

Leasing a commercial jet will result in a huge uproar in little ole NZ by the great unwashed about frivolous expenditure etc etc.

Reason why the government likes to use the RNZAF passenger jet on the overseas trips is that the media contingent can hitch a free ride and cover the trips - great PR for the government of the day.

Also, great way to get the media alongside the government with the inevitable one on one while on the flights.

[nztx]

It did but John Key's government did not wantonly waste billions of dollars on consultants.

Leasing a commercial jet will result in a huge uproar in little ole NZ by the great unwashed about frivolous expenditure etc etc.

Reason why the government likes to use the RNZAF passenger jet on the overseas trips is that the media contingent can hitch a free ride and cover the trips - great PR for the government of the day.

Also, great way to get the media alongside the government with the inevitable one on one while on the flights.


Wasn't Little the last Labour Minister for Defence ?

Can't have been in as Minister of that for long enough to turn it into a shambles - like what happened to TWF Ora ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

LOL. Did you go to a private NZ school that received absolutely no taxpayer funding? The state makes political decisions on what it funds. English is the most full-blown socialist language in NZ, in your parlance.

Pretty sure I spoke English before I went to school. You seem to think that the state does everything / should do everything. You probably think there should be someone on hand from the state to tie your shoelaces & wipe your backside.

[dobby41]

So funny seeing the Righties trying to justify Luxon's stances.
"I'll never use the 757 and would travel commercial" - then try booking it. Next will be a replacement plane though he has said that they shouldn't be used by the Govt.

"People should pay for their own Te Reo learning" - then gets the tax payer to pay for his.

"All Govt departments should be addressed by their English name first" - then goes on to talk (at length) about Kianga Ora while not even knowing the English name. He then carried on to say that everyone knew what Kianga Ora was which was a point that many had made before to deaf ears.

"I think if I can pay I should pay" with respect to the Clean Car Discount - then buys a Tesla and claims the discount. He then justifies it by saying that it was his wife.
Certainly can't take the moral high ground on that one (or anything else really).

He is quickly finding that what you say in opposition can come back to bite you:
"The Russian Ambassador should be withdrawn immediately" - now he'll take advice but it wasn't good enough for the previous government to take the same advice.

And so many others!
Does he stand for anything at all?

14897

[nztx]

So funny seeing the Righties trying to justify Luxon's stances.
"I'll never use the 757 and would travel commercial" - then try booking it. Next will be a replacement plane though he has said that they shouldn't be used by the Govt.

"People should pay for their own Te Reo learning" - then gets the tax payer to pay for his.

"All Govt departments should be addressed by their English name first" - then goes on to talk (at length) about Kianga Ora while not even knowing the English name. He then carried on to say that everyone knew what Kianga Ora was which was a point that many had made before to deaf ears.

"I think if I can pay I should pay" with respect to the Clean Car Discount - then buys a Tesla and claims the discount. He then justifies it by saying that it was his wife.
Certainly can't take the moral high ground on that one (or anything else really).

He is quickly finding that what you say in opposition can come back to bite you:
"The Russian Ambassador should be withdrawn immediately" - now he'll take advice but it wasn't good enough for the previous government to take the same advice.

And so many others!
Does he stand for anything at all?

14897


What's that Josephine ? :)

Some troublesome little priks on Sharetrader have correlated the Defence Office lights on and no-one manning stations, while the tired cobbled together old crates were either on display or routine maintenance at every stop in the itinery ? ;)

Must been overly tiring to result in retirement for the tired head bottlewasher after that session or were no hospital passes for early tired-ment printed yet for those on reject lists ;)

Obviously the old flying crates still had some obscure use for them to have not been driven into a large hole in the ground, which typified everything else the clueless huddle of Labour 'Lost It's' repeatedly touched without fail ;)

Have new Display Signs proudly declaring "Princess Spin A Lot Ardern once braved this intemrmitant form of island hopping before doing a sudden bunk" been ordered yet or are they on notice there is a new more shiny Princess awaiting in the shadows, showing better signs of transparency being trialed for release in 85 years time ? ;)

[Baa_Baa]

What's that Josephine ? :)

Some troublesome little priks on Sharetrader have correlated the Defence Office lights on and no-one manning stations, while the tired cobbled together old crates were either on display or routine maintenance at every stop in the itinery ? ;)

Must been overly tiring to result in retirement for the tired head bottlewasher after that session or were no hospital passes for early tired-ment printed yet for those on reject lists ;)

Obviously the old flying crates still had some obscure use for them to have not been driven into a large hole in the ground, which typified everything else the clueless huddle of Labour 'Lost It's' repeatedly touched without fail ;)

Have new Display Signs proudly declaring "Princess Spin A Lot Ardern once braved this intemrmitant form of island hopping before doing a sudden bunk" been ordered yet or are they on notice there is a new more shiny Princess awaiting in the shadows, showing better signs of transparency being trialed for release in 85 years time ? ;)

Whatever you're on, I don't want any of it. It's just weird. Almost TLDR, but unintelligible anyway. What kind of messed up mind writes this 'seagull in the bay' incomprehensible nonsense? Trying to sh1t on everything but just proving they're messed up themselves? And the smilies, what's with the smilies? Weird. Very weird. Credibility? None.

[tim23]

Are there ? but Do they know you ? ;)
Weird reply but not completely surprising.

[tim23]

Maybe a 'second hand corolla' of the sky will do.
That would not be a great “outcome” for the PM - if he says outcomes again I’ll scream - fair chance I’ll be screaming soon!

[ynot]

That would not be a great “outcome” for the PM - if he says outcomes again I’ll scream - fair chance I’ll be screaming soon!
Go easy on those screams Timbo, Labour will be out to pasture for a couple or 3 terms at least.

[tim23]

Go easy on those screams Timbo, Labour will be out to pasture for a couple or 3 terms at least.
Holyoake was the last PM who got a 4 term outcome - Luxon has no show getting that outcome.

[ynot]

Holyoake was the last PM who got a 4 term outcome - Luxon has no show getting that outcome.
A credible opposition is required in order to take power. Labour/ Greens credible, Your dreaming.

[Blue Skies]

A credible opposition is required in order to take power. Labour/ Greens credible, Your dreaming.


Only if you have a credible coalition in govt, which going on both early signs of disfunction as well as Winston's past history, we do not.
This coalition govt is taking flak from all sides, there's a new protest if not every day, every week.
Labour voters held back from voting last election because of the cost of living crisis, & not giving them enough of what they wanted,
but they won't hold back from voting next time if this Coalition keeps giving people reasons to loathe them, & if this Coalition starts fraying & destroying itself.
Have you ever seen a new govt upset so many different groups so quickly ?
And if/when the Deputy PM starts being as belligerent & difficult with Luxon & Seymour as he is with journalists & the media, this coalition will be in trouble.
I think it will be touch & go if they make it through 1 term.
There's going to be huge protests, division & unrest ahead around their anti-Maori policies, probably like nothing we've seen since the Springbok tour protests.
How will a 3 headed govt deal with that without fraying, imagine the leaks pouring out of Cabinet then.

[nztx]

Only if you have a credible coalition in govt, which going on both early signs of disfunction as well as Winston's past history, we do not.
This coalition govt is taking flak from all sides, there's a new protest if not every day, every week.
Labour voters held back from voting last election because of the cost of living crisis, & not giving them enough of what they wanted,
but they won't hold back from voting next time if this Coalition keeps giving people reasons to loathe them, & if this Coalition starts fraying & destroying itself.
Have you ever seen a new govt upset so many different groups so quickly ?
And if/when the Deputy PM starts being as belligerent & difficult with Luxon & Seymour as he is with journalists & the media, this coalition will be in trouble.
I think it will be touch & go if they make it through 1 term.
There's going to be huge protests, division & unrest ahead around their anti-Maori policies, probably like nothing we've seen since the Springbok tour protests.
How will a 3 headed govt deal with that without fraying, imagine the leaks pouring out of Cabinet then.



Someone still thinks that the destructive huddle of Labour Comrades & Green Loonies were credible after all the destruction that we had for the last 6 years - Right ? ;)

Buddy .. might be something wrong with the Meds, Eyesight & Hearing somewhere ;)

[ynot]

Only if you have a credible coalition in govt, which going on both early signs of disfunction as well as Winston's past history, we do not.
This coalition govt is taking flak from all sides, there's a new protest if not every day, every week.
Labour voters held back from voting last election because of the cost of living crisis, & not giving them enough of what they wanted,
but they won't hold back from voting next time if this Coalition keeps giving people reasons to loathe them, & if this Coalition starts fraying & destroying itself.
Have you ever seen a new govt upset so many different groups so quickly ?
And if/when the Deputy PM starts being as belligerent & difficult with Luxon & Seymour as he is with journalists & the media, this coalition will be in trouble.
I think it will be touch & go if they make it through 1 term.
There's going to be huge protests, division & unrest ahead around their anti-Maori policies, probably like nothing we've seen since the Springbok tour protests.
How will a 3 headed govt deal with that without fraying, imagine the leaks pouring out of Cabinet then.

Labour voters never held back. Kiwis took their country back is what happened !

[Bjauck]

Pretty sure I spoke English before I went to school. You seem to think that the state does everything / should do everything. You probably think there should be someone on hand from the state to tie your shoelaces & wipe your backside.
Comrade Ninefingers, I guess you don’t see the irony in your position by having state funded compulsory English language education…

English is the Socialist Language.
Nanny state makes state-funded English compulsory.
https://parents.education.govt.nz/secondary-school/learning-at-school/what-my-child-learns/#:~:text=English%20and%20mathematics%20credits%20a re,are%20usually%20no%20compulsory%20subjects.
In Year 11 most schools will require your child to study the core subjects of English, mathematics and science
In most schools in Year 12, English is a compulsory subject.

[Bjauck]

Labour voters never held back. Kiwis took their country back is what happened ! I presume you mean some Kiwis. So, of the about 53% of voters who voted for the Coalition Parties, what proportion were NZ citizens? You seem to know.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Comrade Ninefingers, I guess you don’t see the irony in your position by having state funded compulsory English language education…

English is the Socialist Language.
Nanny state makes state-funded English compulsory.
https://parents.education.govt.nz/secondary-school/learning-at-school/what-my-child-learns/#:~:text=English%20and%20mathematics%20credits%20a re,are%20usually%20no%20compulsory%20subjects.
In Year 11 most schools will require your child to study the core subjects of English, mathematics and science
In most schools in Year 12, English is a compulsory subject.

What a stupid post. I’ve already said I spoke English before I even got to school.

[Bjauck]

What a stupid post. I’ve already said I spoke English before I even got to school.
So I imagine you are not happy that English is compulsory and receives so much state funding?

[Logen Ninefingers]

While deluded Leftists like red skies fantasise about a Leftist uprising against the new coalition government, out in the real world the extreme media bias & marxist / separatist whingeing is proving to be a huge turn-off for voters. As the latest poll numbers show, Labours support continues to plummet, down a whopping 5.9%. The public don’t want a bar of the failed and rejected Hipkins and his smarmy brand of negativity, and have come to realise that Labour were nothing less than economic vandals during their time on government. It is a very long and difficult road back to power for the Leftists, and the more the antics of Te Pati Maori play out in Parliament, the more the Left political parties will be seen as patently unfit to govern.

——————————

Roy Morgan poll November 2023

Party Vote
————
National 37.5% (-0.6% from election)
Labour 21.0% (-5.9%)
Greens 12.5% (+0.9%)
ACT 12.5% (+3.9%)
NZ First 8% (+1.9%)
Te Pāti Māori 2.5% (-0.6%)
TOP 3.5% (+1.3%)

[Logen Ninefingers]

So you could write and read English to a sophisticated level too?

So I imagine you are not happy that English is compulsory and receives so much state funding?

Yes, I could.

Yawn. Let it go, your attempts to divide according to race and language will get you nowhere. The public see through the pathetic gaslighting of the media & Leftists such as yourself. Let me be very clear: you will not divide us! Labour is on 21% and trending lower. It’s over, your side are in a mess and the retirements will continue. Soon the knives will start being sharpened and Chimpy will be nervously wondering when it will be his ‘Ides of March’ moment.

[Bjauck]

Yes, I could.

Yawn. Let it go, your attempts to divide according to race and language will get you nowhere. The public see through the pathetic gaslighting of the media & Leftists such as yourself. Let me be very clear: you will not divide us! Labour is on 21% and trending lower. It’s over, your side are in a mess and the retirements will continue. Soon the knives will start being sharpened and Chimpy will be nervously wondering when it will be his ‘Ides of March’ moment.
From your answer, and non-answer, I infer you support socialism when it suits your particular social agenda, as all socialists do.

BTW Labour would have been well down my list of parties for which I would have voted.

[Logen Ninefingers]

A chilling result for the Leftist extremists & racial separatists. With such a backlash against the politics of envy & division, the media are sowing the seeds of their own destruction through their utterly futile attacks on the coalition.

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/roy-morgan-nz-election-november-2023

‘Today’s Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll for November 2023 shows new Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and the National-led Government (National, ACT & NZ First) with a majority of 58% support for November, up 5.2% points from the mid-October election.

Support for National was virtually unchanged at 37.5%, down 0.6% points from the election, while support for ACT increased 3.9% points to 12.5% and support for NZ First was up 1.9% points to 8%.

In November support for the defeated Labour-Greens-Maori Party Parliamentary Opposition was at only 36%, down 5.6% points from the election.

Support for Labour dropped 5.9% points to 21% (the lowest ever recorded in a Roy Morgan Poll). However, support for the Greens increased 0.9% points to 12.5% while support for the Maori Party was down 0.6% points to 2.5%.

A further 6% of electors supported a minor party outside Parliament, up 0.4% points from the election. This includes 3.5% (up 1.3% points) who support The Opportunities Party, 0.5% (up 0.3% points) who support the New Conservatives and a further 2% who support other minor parties including Democracy NZ, New Zealand Loyal, NewZeal and the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party.

Current level of support for National/ ACT/ NZ First would translate to 74 seats in Parliament

The survey results for November would lead to 74 seats (up six seats) being won by the current National/ ACT/ NZ First governing coalition compared to only 48 seats (down seven seats) for the Labour/ Greens/ Maori Party Opposition.‘

[ynot]

I presume you mean some Kiwis. So, of the about 53% of voters who voted for the Coalition Parties, what proportion were NZ citizens? You seem to know.

Who cares. The majority of Kiwis regained their country back.

[dobby41]

The Govt seems to be tying itself up on the Te Reo Maori issue.
Luxon and Bishop seem to think that Kianga Ora is good for that department - Winny seems to think that they'll get the language right, but has no idea what the English name is for Kianga Ora so reverts to type and abuses the questioner.

They really should stop digging.
Going to be a fun 3 years if it wasn't so serious.
Back to the Future without a plan on how to go forward.

[jonu]

The Govt seems to be tying itself up on the Te Reo Maori issue.
Luxon and Bishop seem to think that Kianga Ora is good for that department - Winny seems to think that they'll get the language right, but has no idea what the English name is for Kianga Ora so reverts to type and abuses the questioner.

They really should stop digging.
Going to be a fun 3 years if it wasn't so serious.
Back to the Future without a plan on how to go forward.

I suspect they are happy to continue to use Kainga Ora to tar it with its current problems, rather than have those problems stuck to the renamed entity.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The Govt seems to be tying itself up on the Te Reo Maori issue.
Luxon and Bishop seem to think that Kianga Ora is good for that department - Winny seems to think that they'll get the language right, but has no idea what the English name is for Kianga Ora so reverts to type and abuses the questioner.

They really should stop digging.
Going to be a fun 3 years if it wasn't so serious.
Back to the Future without a plan on how to go forward.

The media seems to trying to stir up a furore as regards this government & Te Reo, but it won't do them or their parliamentary allies any good. The public sees right through what they are doing. Leftists can delude themselves that their side is getting traction, in reality they are going backwards - rapidly.

It's going to be a fun 3 years watching the infighting develop within Labour & watching their poll numbers continue to drop.

Labour 21.0% (-5.9%)

[blackcap]

The media seems to trying to stir up a furore as regards this government & Te Reo, but it won't do them or their parliamentary allies any good. The public sees right through what they are doing. Leftists can delude themselves that their side is getting traction, in reality they are going backwards - rapidly.

It's going to be a fun 3 years watching the infighting develop within Labour & watching their poll numbers continue to drop.

Labour 21.0% (-5.9%)

Labour is a cancer. End of story. It needs to be purged.

[Ggcc]

Labour is a cancer. End of story. It needs to be purged.
I am not a labour voter, but feel that someone needs to hold the government to account. They need to try to keep away from the Maori issue as that is getting old. Start focussing on how NZ needs to keep moving forward for the majority of New Zealanders, including Maori.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I am not a labour voter, but feel that someone needs to hold the government to account. They need to try to keep away from the Maori issue as that is getting old. Start focussing on how NZ needs to keep moving forward for the majority of New Zealanders, including Maori.

We’d all like to move on from the Lefts agenda of hate & division; good luck convincing Te Pati Maori, the Greens, the media, and the Iwi elites to do so.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Labour is a cancer. End of story. It needs to be purged.

Thankfully, it is being purged.

[Balance]

I suspect they are happy to continue to use Kainga Ora to tar it with its current problems, rather than have those problems stuck to the renamed entity.

Exactly.

KO’s problems are massive and all will be revealed in March when the review is done.

[Bjauck]

Who cares. The majority of Kiwis regained their country back. Even without eliminating those who did not vote, you somehow know that the “majority of kiwis” thought that it been lost, without caring if there is any accuracy behind your statement.

[iceman]

Even without eliminating those who did not vote, you somehow know that the “majority of kiwis” thought that it been lost, without caring if there is any accuracy behind your statement.

I don't get your point. We have a Government with a parliamentary majority behind it do we not ?

[ynot]

Even without eliminating those who did not vote, you somehow know that the “majority of kiwis” thought that it been lost, without caring if there is any accuracy behind your statement.

Had Labour/Green trajectory been allowed to continue the outcome was obvious to foresee. They were clearly on a path to destruction. Anyone not aware of that was in denial.They were coming apart at the seams.

[Bjauck]

Repeated post

[Bjauck]

I don't get your point. We have a Government with a parliamentary majority behind it do we not ? Voting for a change o government is not necessarily a question of “getting your country back” which is a deliberately hyper emotional concept. Besides, NZ elections are open to citizens of other countries.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Voting for a change o government is not necessarily a question of “getting your country back” which is a deliberately hyper emotional concept. Besides, NZ elections are open to citizens of other countries.

'Hyper emotional'.....that's how I'd describe the inflammatory rhetoric of the cabal of marxists / radicals / separatists who are stoking anger and division on a host of issues, aided and abetted by their affiliates in the media.

[Bjauck]

'Hyper emotional'.....that's how I'd describe the inflammatory rhetoric of the cabal of marxists / radicals / separatists who are stoking anger and division on a host of issues, aided and abetted by their affiliates in the media.
True some on both sides have been hyper-emotional.

[Bjauck]

Had Labour/Green trajectory been allowed to continue the outcome was obvious to foresee. They were clearly on a path to destruction. Anyone not aware of that was in denial.They were coming apart at the seams.
Totally agree it was time for a change.

[Panda-NZ-]

‘Today’s Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll for November 2023 shows new Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and the National-led Government (National, ACT & NZ First) with a majority of 58% support for November, up 5.2% points from the mid-October election.

Lab/Green voters moving to Australia in droves.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Lab/Green voters moving to Australia in droves.

They are moving off welfare here and looking for jobs in Australia? Hadn't heard that.

[nztx]

Lab/Green voters moving to Australia in droves.


New Housing Crisis over there or are we importing more Aussies to replace them ? :)

[Logen Ninefingers]

New Housing Crisis over there or are we importing more Aussies to replace them ? :)

I don't think we need to import beneficiaries, gang members, and chardonnay socialist psuedo-intellectuals from Australia.

[nztx]

I don't think we need to import beneficiaries, gang members, and chardonnay socialist psuedo-intellectuals from Australia.



they might be wealthier than the ones we are giving away ;)

Any complaints ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/worksafe-cuts-desks-by-three-quarters-in-wellington-office-move/LZQ2OEYMMJDQNGTOSGWTOHUSFQ/

WorkSafe cuts desks by three quarters in Wellington office move



WorkSafe will be moving to a new building in February - and cutting three quarters of its available desks in the process.

The move will bring better facilities, a higher seismic rating, and more meeting spaces, deputy chief executive corporate, Rachel Gully said.

WorkSafe has notified its landlord it will be vacating the current premises on 86 Customhouse Quay in Wellington and relocating to 8 Willis St, moving in with other government agencies, including Statistics New Zealand and the Ministry for the Environment.

“Our current space has 449 desks. However, since the pandemic, we have had about 40 per cent desk occupancy,” Gully said.

“Our future space has 121 desks plus access to over 1200 additional shared work points throughout the building.”


A cheap Govt Office Furniture auction on the way next ? ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

they might be wealthier than the ones we are giving away ;)

Any complaints ? ;)

Exporting Labour / Greens voters and then importing the same from Australia doesn't make much sense to me. On the other hand, if we aim to import sensible, successful, and law abiding people from Australia then I will support that.

[Panda-NZ-]

Why would successful people come here when they would earn less.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Why would successful people come here when they would earn less.

Give the new government a chance.

[ynot]

Why would successful people come here when they would earn less.

Because It used to have a lot going for it before Ardern took control.

[nztx]

It's getting tough out there:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/labour-hire-company-ele-tranzport-solutions-in-receivership-many-jobs-terminated-deloitte/QFEPZ4ZAGZBRVPLAJBULDQABPE/

Labour hire company ELE, Tranzport Solutions in receivership, 1000+ jobs terminated: Deloitte


(Paywallified)


5 days before Christmas & crunch .. but how the h4ll does a Labour Hire outfit turn upside down ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/301029438/record-level-of-employers-looking-for-help-laying-off-staff-ema


'Record' level of employers looking for help laying off staff: EMA



Employers are looking for help in managing restructuring and redundancies at a rate not seen since the global financial crisis, the Employers and Manufacturers Association (EMA) says.

Head of advocacy Alan McDonald said requests for help had been steadily increasing through the year but there had been a sharp increase in the last four months.

"In the year to November, demand for restructuring and redundancy support has increased by nearly 50% as businesses responded to the economic slowdown," he said.



Thanks to the wonderful state of the economy that Labour & Robbo left behind ;)





He said the manufacturing sector had shrunk for nine consecutive months.

“People’s reserves and resilience are at an absolute low after three consecutive years of Covid, weather disasters... It’s just very tough.

"Inflationary pressures are still strong, and this is increasing the cost of doing business, while rising interest rates are dampening consumer demand and increasing debt servicing costs.

"As a result, many business owners have few options and are being forced to look at how they can reduce costs, including their staffing costs. This is reflected in the strong uptick in requests for support that we have seen since August.

[Bjauck]

Why would successful people come here when they would earn less.
Once tax resident, NZ has a benign environment for wealthy people (lack of stamp duties, general CGT, capital transfer taxes). National is happy to keep the Labour tax increases on income however. So earning less income but earning more in capital gains could be attractive for immigrants.

[Ggcc]

Lab/Green voters moving to Australia in droves.
The extreme Labour/Greens could not move out of NZ fast enough. Same as the Extreme other side

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nicola-willis-does-it-again-finance-minister-makes-lewd-gaffe-during-question-time-in-parliament/46KBC6RT6VHTJP2I77ICWTB6EM/


Finance Minister Nicola Willis has done it again, making an innuendo during Parliament’s Question Time similar to a prior lewd gaffe in which she questioned the then-minister about fiscal holes.

Willis said today: “What New Zealanders care about is the size of the sausage, not how it’s delivered.”

The House erupted in laughter.

Willis then chuckled, smirked, and put her hand to her face before turning to the Speaker and saying, “It’s been a year of bad quotes from me”.




Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters then rose with a point of order, trying to deflect the questioning to Labour’s finance spokesman Grant Robertson.

Robertson interjected: “Hang on, don’t talk about my sausage.”



Sure they weren't referring to the size of Chipkin's shrunk down Sausage Roll filling ? ;)

[Getty]

Oh well, Lux has it sorted.

NZ to put Anus back to Anzus.

3096 501's have come back from Australia, so put them into service.

Leave our fit and able out of it, we don't need any more wasteful campaigns like Vietnam and Afghanistan.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The extreme Labour/Greens could not move out of NZ fast enough. Same as the Extreme other side

Seems like the Leftist extremists are still here, protesting and moaning. They wouldn’t cut it in Australia, and they’d be irrelevant there.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nicola-willis-does-it-again-finance-minister-makes-lewd-gaffe-during-question-time-in-parliament/46KBC6RT6VHTJP2I77ICWTB6EM/









Sure they weren't referring to the size of Chipkin's shrunk down Sausage Roll filling ? ;)

Seems Robbo is always eager to claim it’s his hole or sausage that is being discussed.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/adrian-orr-and-reserve-bank-rbnz-face-up-to-mps-new-government-at-select-committee/H42OXBBTWNAIXFB26LYADRFB4Y/

Adrian Orr invokes ghost chips, Muldoon

Adrian Orr and Reserve Bank tell MPs, new Government that inflation is ‘number one evil’ for everyone



The spectre of Robert Muldoon, eternally evil inflation, and a mystery around migration were raised at Parliament as Adrian Orr faced MPs.

The Reserve Bank (RBNZ) Governor said migration had clearly eased the labour shortage but it’s still not clear why the country’s economy performed so poorly recently.

And he said inflation was undoubtedly the “number one evil” for everybody in the economy. Orr appeared before MPs this morning at a time of ongoing concerns over inflation and interest rates.

Orr referred to last week’s disappointing GDP results showing the economy shrank 0.3 per cent in the September quarter.

The Reserve Bank was “internalising that complex situation,” he quipped, referencing the Ghost Chips ad.


Adrian old son - 'Phantom of the Opera' been done - that old chips .. but Phantom of the Reserve Bank might
still be available if you can find old dusty black jacket and wiggle the chips fast enough still ;)

After the game played with Robbo back & forth, it's understandable that things might be a bit out of
practice now, after Grand Theft Central Bank and numerous trips back to count what isn't there, in
hope of a recount gain ;)

[nztx]

Seems Robbo is always eager to claim it’s his hole or sausage that is being discussed.


Decades down the track will he be known as "That one who tried to claim Hole and then Sausage "
before disappearing into Political Wastelands where all redundant & upended Labour talent eventually winds up never to seen or heard of again ? ;)

[tim23]

A credible opposition is required in order to take power. Labour/ Greens credible, Your dreaming.
Wrong - governments typically get voted out - people simply get tired of them.

[tim23]

Labour voters never held back. Kiwis took their country back is what happened !
Did someone give it away or something?

[tim23]

Labour is a cancer. End of story. It needs to be purged.
Using the word Cancer is a cheap nasty shot - poor form.

[Bjauck]

Oh well, Lux has it sorted.

NZ to put Anus back to Anzus.

3096 501's have come back from Australia, so put them into service.

Leave our fit and able out of it, we don't need any more wasteful campaigns like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
It sounds a good idea to train ex-cons how to kill and use weapons, even more effectively! And then have policies that make sure owning housing is well out of their reach on discharge….

So after Lange effectively killed ANZUS, we may join AUKUS. Lange’s policy towards our ally’s military arsenal was always a frivolous vanity project. I doubt we will get our initials inserted this time, so we will be there as a result of being Australia’s little sibling or the UK’s prodigal child. Let’s hope our biggest trade partner is OK with that.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/20/when-luxo-meets-albo/

[nztx]

Using the word Cancer is a cheap nasty shot - poor form.


Sounds a bit R18 .. are you sure you're allowed on here ? :)

[Balance]

Excellent news!

A victory for all fair minded females & males against woke creep.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/governments-tough-stance-on-transgender-sports-sparks-controversy/SUOGZO7QZBEJJDD267U4K7DXVA/

The Government is threatening to withhold millions of dollars of public funding from New Zealand sports bodies if they do not comply with a push to separate transgender athletes from grassroots competitions.

The hardline and potentially divisive policy from the Government sets out the agenda to “ensure publicly funded sporting bodies support fair competition that is not compromised by rules relating to gender”.

[blackcap]

Excellent news!

A victory for all fair minded females & males against woke creep.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/governments-tough-stance-on-transgender-sports-sparks-controversy/SUOGZO7QZBEJJDD267U4K7DXVA/

The Government is threatening to withhold millions of dollars of public funding from New Zealand sports bodies if they do not comply with a push to separate transgender athletes from grassroots competitions.

The hardline and potentially divisive policy from the Government sets out the agenda to “ensure publicly funded sporting bodies support fair competition that is not compromised by rules relating to gender”.

That is fantastic news. Bleed them dry if the sporting bodies don't uphold common sense.

[Balance]

Great move by the new government to do a proper inquiry into NZ's COVID response rather than Ardern's whitewash inquiry.

Expect plenty of revelations of how the 'one source of truth' was NOT.

Expect how the 'most transparent' government ever was anything BUT.

And expect the whole truth to come out of just how manipulative and clueless the Ardern & Labour government were, especially after the initial successful lockdowns.

"Up close, the existing Commission looks like a giant, expensive, rubber stamp to simply approve the last Government’s policy in regard to Covid-19. As constructed, this inquiry will predictably be an expensive exercise in missing the point. The response to Covid-19 was not just a scientific question. It was also a social and economic question and that evaluation, and the independent leadership to undertake that evaluation is glaringly absent."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/royal-commission-covid-inquiry-david-seymour-winston-peters-right-about-scrapping-it-deborah-chambers/AWGYYQAFJJA25KK7OCXWNDWVQY/
paywalled

So, what is wrong with the current Royal Commission? The Commission’s terms of reference and non-adversarial approach are terrible news for anyone who wants to learn the truth behind the decisions made at the height of the Covid pandemic. The terms of reference appear to presuppose that the public health response itself was justified and the only lessons we could take forward into the future might be about the effective implementation of that public health response. In other words, there is no evaluation of Government decision-making.

The second fundamental flaw with the Royal Commission is the leadership of the Commission. Putting an epidemiologist in charge of this inquiry is like putting a rabbit in charge of the lettuce garden. There is little doubt that epidemiologists such as Dr Michael Baker are convinced the Government response was the correct one. Our Government was so reliant on the epidemiologists that for a year or so they effectively became our unelected government. The advising epidemiologists have intellectual skin in the game in terms of justifying the decisions that were made.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1665949645979-XJARCDDIRBYZAUT0D7CB/Demolition+copy.jpg?format=1500w

[Bjauck]

That is fantastic news. Bleed them dry if the sporting bodies don't uphold common sense.
Three cheers for taxpayer funded centralised socialist control of Sports organisations.

[Balance]

Three cheers for taxpayer funded centralised socialist control of Sports organisations.

Yup - likewise for schools, universities and other recreation facilities.

You write a lot of bull.

[Bjauck]

Yup - likewise for schools, universities and other recreation facilities.

You write a lot of bull.
Lol. So you are in favour of the extension of taxpayer funded central government control, provided it furthers National’s social agenda. The Individual sports bodies are the ones who will know how best to accommodate their athletes. They don’t need central socialist direction.

[RTM]

Lol. So you are in favour of the extension of taxpayer funded central government control, provided it furthers National’s social agenda. The Individual sports bodies are the ones who will know how best to accommodate their athletes. They don’t need central socialist direction.

Then they probably don’t need central funding either.

[blackcap]

Three cheers for taxpayer funded centralised socialist control of Sports organisations.

No they are looking at reducing funding. Sounds like a good money saving move.

[dobby41]

Voting for a change o government is not necessarily a question of “getting your country back” which is a deliberately hyper emotional concept. Besides, NZ elections are open to citizens of other countries.

More like 'getting your country backward' - so far all they have shown is that they can undo things, sensible or not.

Removing the dual mandate for the RBNZ as if that was the cause of inflation when even the RB governors say it wouldn't have changed their decisions.
Without considering employment you can (under certain economic conditions) decrease inflation only to increase unemployment to the detriment of the country as a whole.
Make workers compete with workers to drive wages down rather than make businesses compete with businesses to get workers (or, heaven forbid, businesses actually invest and increase productivity). We end up where we are - a low-wage economy with poor productivity.

Making a change just for the sake of it (Trump was good at that).
We end up where we are

[dobby41]

Seems Robbo is always eager to claim it’s his hole or sausage that is being discussed.

It certainly was his hole that Willis asked about before - directly (read Hansard).

[dobby41]

Was that a budget?
Certainly not mini, a pico budget maybe?
Still no idea where the tax cut money is coming from.
Seems that the country is in a real mess but don't worry about it if you are a landlord or rich - National has your back (spending money they say we can't afford).
Still, as a landlord I'll make a good chunk more money on tax-free capital gains and will be able to grab them after only 2 years.

[Balance]

Lol. So you are in favour of the extension of taxpayer funded central government control, provided it furthers National’s social agenda. The Individual sports bodies are the ones who will know how best to accommodate their athletes. They don’t need central socialist direction.

Socialist?

More like common sense but that’s not something you will understand.

You write a lot of bull.

[Logen Ninefingers]

More like 'getting your country backward' - so far all they have shown is that they can undo things, sensible or not.

Removing the dual mandate for the RBNZ as if that was the cause of inflation when even the RB governors say it wouldn't have changed their decisions.
Without considering employment you can (under certain economic conditions) decrease inflation only to increase unemployment to the detriment of the country as a whole.
Make workers compete with workers to drive wages down rather than make businesses compete with businesses to get workers (or, heaven forbid, businesses actually invest and increase productivity). We end up where we are - a low-wage economy with poor productivity.

Making a change just for the sake of it (Trump was good at that).
We end up where we are

If the dual mandate doesn’t effect RBNZ decisions then why have it? Make your arguments make sense.

Looks like a nice easy win for the coalition:
Person A: “Hey, inflations really dropped over the last year.”
Person B: “Yeah, the new government has changed the RBNZ mandate & it has certainly done the trick.”

[Bjauck]

Socialist?

More like common sense but that’s not something you will understand.

You write a lot of bull. Yup. Textbook socialist control: The new Government promising to reward private organisations with taxpayers’ money provided they behave according to government policy. BTW both National and Labour have various socialist policies. Most modern parties do.

The strength of your argument should not necessitate a personal attack.

[dobby41]

If the dual mandate doesn’t effect RBNZ decisions then why have it? Make your arguments make sense.

Looks like a nice easy win for the coalition:
Person A: “Hey, inflations really dropped over the last year.”
Person B: “Yeah, the new government has changed the RBNZ mandate & it has certainly done the trick.”

It can affect their decision but hasn't under the setting that they were trying to fix.
As I said - under certain scenarios it does affect decisions and would probably result in less unemployment and higher wages.

As I suggested - it is optics and person B isn't thinking a lot. But that's National and the current Govt for you!
Inflation has dropped over the last year - with the dual mandate!

[dobby41]

The strength of your argument should not necessitate a personal attack.

A balanced person would rely on their argument rather than personal attacks.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It can affect their decision but hasn't under the setting that they were trying to fix.
As I said - under certain scenarios it does affect decisions and would probably result in less unemployment and higher wages.

As I suggested - it is optics and person B isn't thinking a lot. But that's National and the current Govt for you!
Inflation has dropped over the last year - with the dual mandate!

It’ll drop faster over the coming year, you watch. (Under the single mandate no less).
Person A and Person B will be crediting the new government with the drop in inflation, Person Lefty will be hopping mad.