Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Logen Ninefingers]

In Daytr's 'real world', all Kiwi's - Maori, European, and others alike - all sought to band together to get along and get ahead under our one government.....but then one day into this utopian bliss along came David Seymour with a shocking attempt to divide us. So what was he using as a platform to do this when complete and perfect harmony was securely ensconsed across the land? Why, he just used 'a figment of his imagination'.

This is classic gaslighting from daytr; far from being 'the real world', it is a complete inversion of reality.

[Daytr]

What 'figment of (his) imagination' are you talking about?

A referendum.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Where did I say it was all sorted?
You love making things up.

For starters the settlement with Ngapuhi the largest iwi in NZ hasn't even happened yet.

There is land that the Government confiscated in WWII for strategic purposes that still hasn't been returned.

However I think what has upset most people is the over reach by the Maori Labour caucus & the creation of Whata Ora etc. These can all be addressed without a referendum & I would support those changes.

Anyhoo why are we talking about a figment of David Seymour's imagination.
I suspect he doesn't even believe in it himself but he is playing to voter base just as Winston Peters does. Says a lot and used it as a bargaining chip with no real intention of following through. But ACT voters lapped up his act.

Off to the real world now, not imaginary one where the country is torn in two.

Haere ra

Where did I say it was all sorted?

For starters the settlement with Ngapuhi the largest iwi in NZ hasn't even happened yet.

There is land that the Government confiscated in WWII for strategic purposes that still hasn't been returned.

-----

You are disingenuously conflating the 'treaty settlement' process with the real crucial matter of whether Maori are to be governed by the government, or whether they are 'in partnership' with the government and jointly governing the rest of us.
On the sovereignty question, you've attempted to sweep it all under the carpet by claiming their was just a bit of overreach by Labour and now we can just go back to normal, with a couple of extraneous matters just needing to be ticked off for complete harmony to be reached. Absurdly you seem to think the 'co-governance' people will just pack it in and go away.

[Logen Ninefingers]

A referendum.

It's a real thing. I'd sooner 'the people' decide these matters than a cabal of colluding activists, judges, and politicians. Are we going to be one unified democratic country, or not?

[Daytr]

Without any references from you I don’t know what you are going on about.

My guess though is that I found it confusing when Te Reo and English were used in the same article without any differentiation in the font between the two languages. Also as my knowledge of Te Reo is not great, I need the Māori part of the text to be translated into English, so that I do not miss out on any of the information. I prefer it when there is both a Māori version and an English version of the same publication, then I have no issue with that. However your disparagement of my comments was unspecified.


Right back at you.

Kia ora Bjauck, my comment wasn't to you it was to Logen Ninefingers, you were refernced in it due to your prior comment to Logen NineFingers.
Imo you have been one of the most balanced posters on this thread.

[Bjauck]

I misunderstood your post. However no-one is perfect!

[Daytr]

So what are my racist comments with respect to the use of Te Reo?

There is some confusion here. I wasn't referring to you in regards ny racism.
I only referenced you as you said you would sift through Logen Ninefingers comments.

[Bjauck]

There is some confusion here. I wasn't referring to you in regards ny racism.
I only referenced you as you said you would sift through Logen Ninefingers comments.
That’s the trouble with a fast moving debate! I had already done the sifting before I made that post.
Kia pai.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Statements on who may or not be balanced are just versions of ad hominem attacks. If you say one person is balanced then the clear insinuation is that there are others who are not. As Maori ceded sovereignty to the British Crown in turn for certain important rights & privileges then discussion in this thread on this topic should be a very short one. How did we get into the situation of having these invented 'principles of the treaty', including one that says that Maori and the government are 'in partnership' together? This is the crux of the matter. There is the seed and the grwoing sprout of any division that exists.
A balanced person would say "what you state is demonstrably correct" and acknowledge that the matter needs to be cleared up if the country has any hope at all of moving forward as a unified whole. Instead we have the mixed approach of either suggesting that we must give in to the 'partnership' (co-governance) drive in the interests of peace, or alternatively that we must say that no issue actually exists.

I wonder if the 'balanced' people could advise on how the government is expected to govern when there is no clarity on whether the populace, the courts, and the bureaucracy can agree that they are in a co-governance partnership with another party. Please enlighten me on how they should proceed in the absence of such fundamental constitutional clarity.

[Daytr]

Where did I say it was all sorted?

For starters the settlement with Ngapuhi the largest iwi in NZ hasn't even happened yet.

There is land that the Government confiscated in WWII for strategic purposes that still hasn't been returned.

-----

You are disingenuously conflating the 'treaty settlement' process with the real crucial matter of whether Maori are to be governed by the government, or whether they are 'in partnership' with the government and jointly governing the rest of us.
On the sovereignty question, you've attempted to sweep it all under the carpet by claiming their was just a bit of overreach by Labour and now we can just go back to normal, with a couple of extraneous matters just needing to be ticked off for complete harmony to be reached. Absurdly you seem to think the 'co-governance' people will just pack it in and go away.

No I'm not they are separate issues and I have already stated on here more than once I agree Maori ceded sovereignty, however you keep suggesting I don't.


It's a real thing. I'd sooner 'the people' decide these matters than a cabal of colluding activists, judges, and politicians. Are we going to be one unified democratic country, or not?

Well that's your opinion, mine differs. Live with it & if it goes ahead, watch the carnage.


'Either way it's not Maori who didn't honour the Treaty.'

--------

Well that is interesting, because you claim to have read the words of Sir Apirana Ngata and agreed with them.....and then write something that totally contradicts that.

https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-NgaTrea-t1-g1-t1.html

CONFISCATED LANDS
In conclusion I would just like to say a word about the lands that were confiscated by past Governments. Some have said that these confiscations were wrong and that they contravened the articles of the Treaty of Waitangi.

The Government placed in the hands of the Queen of England, the sovereignty and the authority to make laws. Some sections of the Maori people violated that authority. War arose from this and blood was spilled. The law came into operation and land was taken in payment. This it self is a Maori custom—revenge, plunder to avenge a wrong. It was their own chiefs who ceded that right to the Queen. The confiscations cannot therefore be objected to in the light of the Treaty.

What we need to sort is whether Maori ceded sovereignty, or whether they entered into a co-governance partnership.
You are telling me that is all sorted now & what has transpired is just some 'overreach' by Labour, so lets all just be quiet about it cos it's all good now.
So go ask Tuku Morgan if that's correct, and he acknowledges Maori ceded sovereignty.
Go ask Willie Jackson the same question.
Go ask the history teachers teaching the new Aoteroa New Zealand history course at secondary school.
Go ask the Judges at the Supreme Court.
Go ask the academics at our Universities and Polytechs.
Go ask Rawiri Waititi.
Go ask Marama Jackson.

I bet if you go and ask the question, you'll find that it's far from 'all sorted out'. David Seymour did not get into politics to fight on this issue, but Rawiri Waititi did. So lets look closely at who foisted the 'co-governance' agenda on us, and lets find out what they intend to do next and how far they wish to take this, because if anything is causing 'division' then it is the germination & propogation of this clear revisionism by those seeking power and aggrandisement for themselves.

Here you go mis quoting me again. I said I agreed that Maori ceded sovereignty, nothing to do with land confiscations.
That is also one very selective element of land confiscations there are many others that were perpetrated by civilians and the Crown had a responsibility to protect Maori and they failed on a massive scale.

[Daytr]

I misunderstood your post. However no-one is perfect!

..... Kapai

[Daytr]

In Daytr's 'real world', all Kiwi's - Maori, European, and others alike - all sought to band together to get along and get ahead under our one government.....but then one day into this utopian bliss along came David Seymour with a shocking attempt to divide us. So what was he using as a platform to do this when complete and perfect harmony was securely ensconsed across the land? Why, he just used 'a figment of his imagination'.

This is classic gaslighting from daytr; far from being 'the real world', it is a complete inversion of reality.

Again misquoting me. Its obviously a deliberate underhand tactic to try & score points. You should play for the Aussie cricket team!
I said many not all.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's sad that this 'racism' term has to be trotted out in what could have been a real debate traversing the facts. I can post the words of David Lange and a barrister and Judge here, and yet there is nothing condemnatory or vile posted towards them.

Here's more of the words of David Lange -

"The court of appeal once, absurdly, described it as a partnership between races, but it obviously is not. The signatories are, on one side, a distinctive group of people, and on the other, a government which established itself in New Zealand and whose successors represent all of us, whether we are descendants of the signatories or not. The treaty cannot even resolve the argument among Maori themselves in which one side maintains that that you’re a Maori if you identify as such, and the other claims that it’s your links to traditional forms of association which define you as Maori."

Had I written such words myself, there would be some in this forum who would be quick to brand me as 'racist', as an 'extremist', as an 'unbalanced right winger'. But here we have an esteemed former Labour Prime Minister saying things which are now apparently taboo, even though the year 2000 wasn't only the blink of an eye ago in historical terms. This is probably indicative of modern day 'cancel culture' and the way the Left attempts to shout down & discredit any and all opposition by using hugely loaded buzzwords to demonise others. Of course, it's completely intellectually dishonest and cowardly, but that doesn't stop them.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Again misquoting me. Its obviously a deliberate underhand tactic to try & score points. You should play for the Aussie cricket team!
I said many not all.

Split hairs all you like, my main point, clearly, is that you are making out David Seymour is the 'serpent in the garden' in all of this. He isn't. To find the people who created this climate you need to go back to whoever invented 'the principles of the treaty'.

[Daytr]

Split hairs all you like, my main point, clearly, is that you are making out David Seymour is the 'serpent in the garden' in all of this. He isn't. To find the people who created this climate you need to go back to whoever invented 'the principles of the treaty'.

Misquoting someone repeatedly is not splitting hairs. It displays your lack of integrity for everyone to see. Just because you are behind a handle it doesn't absolve you of what write.

I wonder if many on here would openly say what they write hidden in obscurity.

Me, it wouldn't worry me one bit.

Haere ra

[Logen Ninefingers]

Misquoting someone repeatedly is not splitting hairs. It displays your lack of integrity for everyone to see. Just because you are behind a handle it doesn't absolve you of what write.

I wonder if many on here would openly say what they write hidden in obscurity.

Me, it wouldn't worry me one bit.

Haere ra

At this point you are just engaging in more ad hominem attacks. Since cries of "racist" did not dissuade me from making cogent arguments you now focus on some exceedingly minor grammatical distinctions around 'many' and 'all' and inflate that into a fundamental lack of integrity. And it's all beside the point that I was trying to make. Anyway, I've come to expect this sort of rubbish from you.

[SailorRob]

Misquoting someone repeatedly is not splitting hairs. It displays your lack of integrity for everyone to see. Just because you are behind a handle it doesn't absolve you of what write.

I wonder if many on here would openly say what they write hidden in obscurity.

Me, it wouldn't worry me one bit.

Haere ra


Day Trader, what were the main takeaways for you when you read 'How to win friends and influence people'?

Looks like you have multiple threads where you are making a bit of a Pillock of yourself.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[davflaws]

Misquoting someone repeatedly is not splitting hairs. It displays your lack of integrity for everyone to see. Just because you are behind a handle it doesn't absolve you of what write.

I wonder if many on here would openly say what they write hidden in obscurity.

Me, it wouldn't worry me one bit.

Haere ra

Kia ora Daytr
You have been fighting the good fight for some time on this thread. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere. So I offer you some perhapses.

Perhaps a significant proportion of New Zealanders did it hard as a result of (....insert reason that suits your politics)

Perhaps it is simply inherent in human nature to envy any other readily identifiable group who don't seem to be doing it as hard or who seem to be getting advantages or capturing resoources that your group isn't.

Perhaps the right has managed to successfully weaponise this tendency in NZ as in many other places over recent years and has (narrowly) gained power as a result.

Perhaps there will be some changes in the rhetoric and "big policy", but little change in what is delivered on the ground.

Perhaps many posters on this site and almost all on this thread are 'true believers' who will never change their beliefs no matter what you say and no matter how things actually play out.

Perhaps you can find more productive, satisfying and fun things to do on an overcast Sunday.

Perhaps I can go fishing, or perhaps I should start staining my deck.

[Balance]

Example of the sort of mess made by Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government - they added hundreds more civil servants in Kainga Ora (another Maori name now associated with failure like te WTF Ora), billions of dollars to the wasteful spending and still cannot deliver what they promised to do - deliver kiwibuild homes in the numbers and in the price ranges.

Lots of clean up to do for the incoming government.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/301016530/how-a-developer-held-the-government-to-ransom-for-a-378-million-bailout

"The Government has paid a major developer $37.8 million in a land deal, after it allegedly threatened to openly flout its legal obligations and sell scores of KiwiBuild homes out from underneath anxious buyers. Documents released to Stuff under the Official Information Act show that developers The Neighbourhood Ormiston told Kāinga Ora (KO) they were on the brink of receivership and would need assistance. Cabinet ministers allowed the housing agency to pay up against the advice of the Treasury, after being warned of "reputational damages" the debacle could cause to the KiwiBuild programme."

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Cartoon-The-BFD-BoomSlang-diy-1-scaled.jpg

[Blue Skies]

Ex Phillp Morris tobacco lobbyist Chris Bishop caught out this morning on Q&A repeating several times for emphasis, the lie that under Smokefree 2025 there would only be ONE tobacco outlet for the whole of Northland so it would have to be guarded like Fort Knox.

Jack Tame produces the Ministry of Health Smokefree plan published last September for 600 outlets throughout NZ taking into account population & distance to travel & allowing for 35 outlets for Northland with all their locations.

Jack Tame to Chris - Why do you & Chris Luxon keep repeating 1 outlet, when the document specifies 35 locations in Northland ?

Chris Bishop - That's my understanding.

Jack Tame - so where did you get that understanding from ?

Chris Bishop won't answer & deflects.

After all the controversy & heat coming on the govt over repealing Smokefree 2025 I don't believe there's a level of incompetence that he wouldn't have been informed by staff the numbers & locations have been in the public domain for a couple of months.
Govt's hardly been sworn in & their playing fast & loose with facts again.
Still seem to be in campaign mode rather than behaving like a govt.

[Balance]

No wonder Ardern & Labour appointee Steve Maharey resigned in a big hurry from Pharmac - a dysfunctional organisation as usual under Labour.

Steve Maharey had plenty of time to write his politically biased columns but no time to properly over see Pharmac. Andrew Little meanwhile was busy overseeing the deterioration of Health NZ by centralising it as Te WTF Ora.

More revelations to come out in the next year as Pharmac is restructured.

——————————

'Nothing can excuse it': Prominent patient advocate Malcolm Mulholland on Pharmac's culture

Malcolm Mulholland, who is the chair of Patient Voice Aotearoa, is hoping for a more fulsome "clean out" at medicine-buying agency Pharmac, after its board chair, Steve Maharey tendered his resignation to Associate Health Minister David Seymour on Thursday.

It comes after a series of emails released to journalist and advocate Rachel Smalley revealed what Seymour described as a "siege mentality" at the agency.

Its chief executive Sarah Fitt and members of her staff had complained internally about Smalley and personally insulted her, while Mulholland, who also made a privacy act request, saw emails about his advocacy work he felt were completely inappropriate.

"They need a new leadership team," Mulholland said.

One such email from the agency's senior communication advisor at the time, Jane Wright, to Fitt referred to Mulholland's campaign for better better drugs for rare disorders as "light reading".

"The thing that really bothered me was that we were talking about kids and patients, and they had that mentality. So they had no compassion, no empathy, nothing," he said.

Another back and forth between Fitt and the woman saw Fitt comment that Mulholland "wasn't happy at all" while Wright replied "when is he ever?". Mulholland's wife had terminal cancer at the time, and died the following year.

Seymour has promised Pharmac will undergo reform.

[nztx]

Here's another Labour fiasco - Labour & Kiwibuild:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/301016530/how-a-developer-held-the-government-to-ransom-for-a-378-million-bailout

How a developer held the Government to ransom for a $37.8 million bailout



The Government has paid a major developer $37.8 million in a land deal, after it allegedly threatened to openly flout its legal obligations and sell scores of KiwiBuild homes out from underneath anxious buyers.

Documents released to Stuff under the Official Information Act show that developers The Neighbourhood Ormiston told Kāinga Ora (KO) they were on the brink of receivership and would need assistance.

Cabinet ministers allowed the housing agency to pay up against the advice of the Treasury, after being warned of "reputational damages" the debacle could cause to the KiwiBuild programme.



“Without some form of intervention, the likelihood is that the developer would either cancel the sale and purchase agreements at the sunset date, and resell the homes on the open market to achieve additional sales revenue, or put the development into receivership,” government staff told ministers.

Ormiston gave the Government a deadline of October 6. This would have breached its contracts with KiwiBuild, but KO was under the impression it would do it anyway.



Meanwhile, the Treasury opposed the deal, advising ministers that it could set a precedent.

“If ministers agree to this land acquisition to support a developer facing financial constraints, other KiwiBuild developers may form expectations of additional financial support.”

KO investigated this and found that there were 373 KiwiBuild properties out there with an unconditional contract that had likely been purchased at a price cap that was now lower than market value.

The Treasury also expressed concern with plans to raid the coffers of the KiwiBuild underwrite programme to pay for the deal.


So Robbo's RBNZ sidekick - Arian Awesome also knew about this looming Crisis heading towards the Labour Kiwibuild overseers & ministerial clueless faster than a speeding train immediately before the Election ? ;)



In order to enable a speedy purchase, the Cabinet needed to sign off on appropriation of the funds.

Chris Hipkins, Carmel Sepuloni, Grant Robertson, Megan Woods and Kelvin Davis were each named on a document seeking approval.


The Labour Top huddle of 5 were all complicit in approving this to save Kiwibuild's miserable ass too ? ;)


No wonder Megan Housebuilder has kept her trap largely shut on Kiwibuild while the carnage was literally morphing into an even larger potential disaster .. most transparent .. If it had come out earlier, perhaps the landslide would have been worse .. with another Flagstaff Labour initiative - Kiwibuild laying badly in tatters


If the government hadn’t stepped in, the 56 buyers would have been left without a home they had been waiting two to three years for.


Would have made for further large festering Crisis immediately before Election - wouldn't it ? :)


There will be further of this sort of hidden dealing being unearthed & aired in months & years to come .. :)

[Daytr]

Ex Phillp Morris tobacco lobbyist Chris Bishop caught out this morning on Q&A repeating several times for emphasis, the lie that under Smokefree 2025 there would only be ONE tobacco outlet for the whole of Northland so it would have to be guarded like Fort Knox.

Jack Tame produces the Ministry of Health Smokefree plan published last September for 600 outlets throughout NZ taking into account population & distance to travel & allowing for 35 outlets for Northland with all their locations.

Jack Tame to Chris - Why do you & Chris Luxon keep repeating 1 outlet, when the document specifies 35 locations in Northland ?

Chris Bishop - That's my understanding.

Jack Tame - so where did you get that understanding from ?

Chris Bishop won't answer & deflects.

After all the controversy & heat coming on the govt over repealing Smokefree 2025 I don't believe there's a level of incompetence that he wouldn't have been informed by staff the numbers & locations have been in the public domain for a couple of months.
Govt's hardly been sworn in & their playing fast & loose with facts again.
Still seem to be in campaign mode rather than behaving like a govt.

So is Chris Bishop dumb or is he lying?
Perhaps both.
Man what is it the end of week one!

[Logen Ninefingers]

So is Chris Bishop dumb or is he lying?
Perhaps both.
Man what is it the end of week one!

The Datyr / red skies Leftist circle jerk continues. He posts his interpretation of something, you swallow it without question….dumb and dumber are at it again, busy creating their own reality.

[iceman]

The Datyr / red skies Leftist circle jerk continues. He posts his interpretation of something, you swallow it without question….dumb and dumber are at it again, busy creating their own reality.

Funny to see how active they are on all the big issues the voters are concerned about, NOT.
Can’t wait to see Parliament opening and legislation to change course being introduced

[tim23]

The only realty is that Bishop got caught out and doubled down - he’s a liar - even you could figure that out.

[davflaws]

So is Chris Bishop dumb or is he lying?
Perhaps both.
Man what is it the end of week one!
`
Yup - but any attempt to hold the new govt to account on any matter or subject on this forum will be ignored, denied, deflected, or result in ad hominem argument and/or personal abuse, and the posters on this thread will continue to paint themselves as victims of the woke leftist mainstream media bribed with taxpayers money

[Logen Ninefingers]

Maori separatists / secessionists are looking to grandstand and disrupt during the next term of Parliament. We must not let them divide us!

[Logen Ninefingers]

`
Yup - but any attempt to hold the new govt to account on any matter or subject on this forum will be ignored, denied, deflected, or result in ad hominem argument and/or personal abuse, and the posters on this thread will continue to paint themselves as victims of the woke leftist mainstream media bribed with taxpayers money

The only victims of the woke leftist mainstream media will be those that cannot see through it.

[Daytr]

The only victims of the woke leftist mainstream media will be those that cannot see through it.

Here is the interview with Chris Bishop.
Completely out of his depth.
Thank god we do have a media to ask the pertinent questions.

Please by all means defend his performance.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/03/smokefree-laws-bishop-fact-checked-on-pms-northland-store-claim/

[Getty]

Here is the interview with Chris Bishop.
Completely out of his depth.
Thank god we do have a media to ask the pertinent questions.

Please by all means defend his performance.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/03/smokefree-laws-bishop-fact-checked-on-pms-northland-store-claim/

Do you mean "what was he smoking"?

[Getty]

Or was it just a smokescreen?

[SailorRob]

The Datyr / red skies Leftist circle jerk continues. He posts his interpretation of something, you swallow it without question….dumb and dumber are at it again, busy creating their own reality.


Yep he's a massive communist... Absolutely clueless leftard who goes from thread to thread crating havoc.

[nztx]

Or was it just a smokescreen?



Bishop runs rings around Labour's Deputy Leader of the absolute truth & whitewash in a void - Kelvin Davis ;)

[nztx]

Labour's Te WTF Ora Puck Up - the brainchild of Comrade Little (copied from a Pommie disaster zone probably with all the same warts & failures too) rears it's Ugly Head again:


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/te-whatu-ora-granted-urgent-injunction-police-complaint-filed-over-mass-privacy-breach-of-covid-19-vaccination-data-by-former-staff-member/EUKC3NHC6FAOVL2YJSE4GUR6BU/

Te Whatu Ora granted urgent injunction, police complaint filed over mass privacy breach of Covid vaccination data by former staff member



The former staff member was interviewed on a New Zealand conspiracy theory site last week. He claimed he developed a database for the vaccine rollout and quoted from that work.

A woman who lost both parents during the pandemic is furious people’s health data is being used to spread misinformation about the safety of the Covid-19 vaccination.

“The idea that these clowns [could be] using my loved ones’ deaths as so-called proof that the jab kills, when it simply doesn’t, is truly distressing to me.”




The idea that these clowns


Seemed to be a vast pile of Clowns around during Labour's excuse for cluelessness .. extending right from the Leadership down and more are still being identified or falling from the woodwork ;)

[tim23]

Bishop runs rings around Labour's Deputy Leader of the absolute truth & whitewash in a void - Kelvin Davis ;)
Don’t know what you are on about but Jack Tame ran rings around former Tobacco Lobbyist😀

[nztx]

Don’t know what you are on about but Jack Tame ran rings around former Tobacco Lobbyist��



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301017166/more-money-in-cannabis-than-tobacco-advocates-say-ahead-of-repeal

More money in cannabis than tobacco, advocates say ahead of repeal


“Unlike tobacco where it's literally a dying market and the numbers are dwindling, cannabis is booming all around the world because people recognise it is a safer alternative and that it can be managed really well when you legalise it,” Fowlie says.


Let's not sweat the small stuff or screaming about making or not so what's left totally extinct ;)


And for what it's worth Jack Tame's interviews with Davis tend to support the view ;)

[Baa_Baa]

Don’t know what you are on about but Jack Tame ran rings around former Tobacco Lobbyist

I'd have to agree with you, the NatActNZF we're put to the sword today by Jack Tame, which we all knew earlier this week, they were wrong. The proposed retail smokes outlets are plain and obvious on the Te whatever Ora website, so this was amateur hour from the new government. Nice catch.

Obviously it will take a bit of time for them to find their feet as the new government. What's actually important and you can crow about it later if they don't do it, is whether they implement the 100 day plan. There's a lot of legislative dross about to be turfed out soon.

[iceman]

Here is the interview with Chris Bishop.
Completely out of his depth.
Thank god we do have a media to ask the pertinent questions.

Please by all means defend his performance.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/03/smokefree-laws-bishop-fact-checked-on-pms-northland-store-claim/

Totally dumb of Bishop & the PM to be caught so ill prepared. They need to up their game.

On the smoking issue, I find it funny and typically hypocritical that those squealing the loudest voted overwhelmingly in favour of legalising cannabis not that long ago

[Daytr]

Do you mean "what was he smoking"?

Yeah what ever it was it must have been strong.
He just kept doubling down.
Luxon now admits they got it wrong.

[Daytr]

The Datyr / red skies Leftist circle jerk continues. He posts his interpretation of something, you swallow it without question….dumb and dumber are at it again, busy creating their own reality.


Yep he's a massive communist... Absolutely clueless leftard who goes from thread to thread crating havoc.

Intelligent debate on here for all to see.
Quite incredible how low some are willing to stoop.
Your comments say a lot about your own disfunction and inability to have an intelligent debate.

You make Chris Bishop look intelligent in his interview in comparison, which is a tough ask.

Your constant insults are quite comical.
Please keep it up & take the show on the road as dumb & dumber.

[tim23]

Yeah what ever it was it must have been strong.
He just kept doubling down.
Luxon now admits they got it wrong.
A new phrase for telling a porky “we didn’t express it correctly “ nice one Christopher but not many of us buy that line.

[nztx]

Yeah what ever it was it must have been strong.
He just kept doubling down.
Luxon now admits they got it wrong.


but they still might have got it right ;)
keep on chasing red herrings to make up for whats left of the Comrades still half asleep licking their wounds :)

[tim23]

but they still might have got it right ;)
keep on chasing red herrings to make up for whats left of the Comrades still half asleep licking their wounds :)
Of course 35 is about 1 close enough I guess.

[Daytr]

QUOTE=nztx;1032149]but they still might have got it right ;)
keep on chasing red herrings to make up for whats left of the Comrades still half asleep licking their wounds :)[/QUOTE]

So Luxon is now wrong, as he has stated they got their numbers wrong.
Only by 35:1

Keep it coming it just gets better.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Hipkins & his sycophants like Daytr and red skies are chortling away thinking they’ve achieved some big ‘gotcha’ moment, while in reality they’ll be standing powerless on the sidelines while the Coalition of Courage dismantles the Leftist apparatus piece by piece. And there is nothing that they or the bribed numpties in the media can do about it.

[Daytr]

Hipkins & his sycophants like Daytr and red skies are chortling away thinking they’ve achieved some big ‘gotcha’ moment, while in reality they’ll be standing powerless on the sidelines while the Coalition of Courage dismantles the Leftist apparatus piece by piece. And there is nothing that they or the bribed numpties in the media can do about it.

I actually hope the new Government does well for NZ & some of the changes to Labour's overeach will be good things in my book.
When are you going to realise name calling & abusing others with different opinions just makes you look childish?

A sycophant of Hipkins who didn't vote for Hipkins. 🤣

It really is comedy hour.

[Bjauck]

QUOTE=nztx;1032149]but they still might have got it right ;)
keep on chasing red herrings to make up for whats left of the Comrades still half asleep licking their wounds :)

So now Luxon is wrong, as he has stated they got their numbers wrong.
Only by 35:1

Keep it coming it just gets better.
As far as I am concerned the Honeymoon period is quickly over. When the coalition want the next generation to be smokers, accurate figures go up in smoke. The coalition desperately need the tax paying smokers because they don’t want landlords to pay more out of their leveraged untaxed capital gains…

Kia Ora Katoa

[Blue Skies]

Totally dumb of Bishop & the PM to be caught so ill prepared. They need to up their game.

On the smoking issue, I find it funny and typically hypocritical that those squealing the loudest voted overwhelmingly in favour of legalising cannabis not that long ago



By squealing the loudest, I presume you mean those protesting the loudest against this govt's intention to repeal Smokefree 2025.
That would be the medical profession & I think the govt has severely underestimated how strongly medical professionals & the Health sector feel about this and are gearing up to fight it.

Tobacco the leading cause of preventable death, is far more harmful than cannabis though long term use of cannabis does carry some health risks.

But I'ld be interested to see what evidence you have that the Medical profession "voted overwhelmingly in favour of legalising cannabis not that long ago."

[nztx]

By squealing the loudest, I presume you mean those protesting the loudest against this govt's intention to repeal Smokefree 2025.
That would be the medical profession & I think the govt has severely underestimated how strongly medical professionals & the Health sector feel about this and are gearing up to fight it.

Tobacco the leading cause of preventable death, is far more harmful than cannabis though long term use of cannabis does carry some health risks.

But I'ld be interested to see what evidence you have that the Medical profession "voted overwhelmingly in favour of legalising cannabis not that long ago."


Sure it wasn't Covid under Labour's watch .. followed closely by Hospitals under pressure failures, followed
then by Road Pothole victims ? ;)

Labour have however progressed significantly under the path to Zero - Zero power that is .. courtesy
of the Kiwi Public assessing the hopelessness & cluelessness of the Huddle of Comrades on most
everything they touched .. and ignored ;)

Don't you think it's a bit strancge that the Greens as Labour''s coalition partner just loved the idea
of legalising Green Carnation all the way along and probably would have traded Chipkins scalp to get it in ? ;)

What were they going to do under Smokefree 2025 - watch the pretty plumes rising towards
the stars and do a dance in the bottom of the garden holding their breath all the while ? ;)

[nztx]

I actually hope the new Government does well for NZ & some of the changes to Labour's overeach will be good things in my book.
When are you going to realise name calling & abusing others with different opinions just makes you look childish?

A sycophant of Hipkins who didn't vote for Hipkins. ��

It really is comedy hour.


Has Chipkin's finally shaken off the Shame of a Loss and booked some more Clown sessions for the followers
to suck up already ? .. it might be a lonely little Monkey act dodging the missiles ;)

Peters & Seymour are widely rumoured to be near perfect on driving the shots home to the target :)

Are Robbo & Kelvin going to be holding rings & skittles while smiling sweetly - seeing as Woods' Kiwifail Housing calamities are still haunting, Little has chucked in the towell & Mahuta has run away into the dense undergrowth in the back of beyonds on news of all the Idiots on Water being tossed back out ? ;)

[Bjauck]

I think Winston should demand the coalition reduce any tobacco restriction on snuff. A good percentage of the younger generation using snuff would raise heeps of revenue. Landlords could be further subsidised. Winston would also have the big bonus of NZ retreating further into the old Victorian or Edwardian era.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I actually hope the new Government does well for NZ & some of the changes to Labour's overeach will be good things in my book.
When are you going to realise name calling & abusing others with different opinions just makes you look childish?

A sycophant of Hipkins who didn't vote for Hipkins. 🤣

It really is comedy hour.

The guy who screams ‘racist’ at the drop of a hat says “name calling and abusing others with different opinions makes you look childish”. Oh the irony.

[Getty]

So the coalition has hit the deck running, and played its 2 of spades with Smoke-free, and already some cry game over!

Now let's just see how the 51 higher value cards play out, and the 2 Jokers get dealt.

They don't have as many Queens in their pack as Labour/Greens,, but should still come up Trumps.

[Daytr]

The guy who screams ‘racist’ at the drop of a hat says “name calling and abusing others with different opinions makes you look childish”. Oh the irony.

Morena,

Some of the posters deep seated issues with Maōri & te reo, when you are so easily triggered by having compulsory te reo, an official language of NZ, taught in schools are all very much evidence of racism.

I am not a supporter of Labour's overeach in regards Maori based policies in Government Departments, or the re interpretation of the treaty.

You have displayed dishonesty on here on a regular basis. Deliberately misquoting people, falsely making accusations of police corruption etc. At least be honest with yourself.

[fungus pudding]

Morena,

Some of the posters deep seated issues with Maōri & te reo, when you are so easily triggered by having compulsory te reo, an official language of NZ, taught in schools are all very much evidence of racism.
............

.........or perhaps 'evidence of common sense.'

[davflaws]

But I'ld be interested to see what evidence you have that the Medical profession "voted overwhelmingly in favour of legalising cannabis not that long ago."


Wasting your breath mate. These guys don't do evidence. Their specialty is name calling, ad hominem argument, and personal abuse.

[Daytr]

.........or perhaps 'evidence of common sense.'

Morena Fungus,
And what common sense would that be?
And don't bring out the ol te reo is not an international language. Neither is Japanese outside of Japan yet they haven't abandoned their language. And te reo has plenty of utility within NZ and I love that it is growing.

How many on here would be as triggered if kids were taught sign language in schools?
Again I think that would be a good thing at primary school.

[Bjauck]

So the coalition has hit the deck running, and played its 2 of spades with Smoke-free, and already some cry game over!

Now let's just see how the 51 higher value cards play out, and the 2 Jokers get dealt.

They don't have as many Queens in their pack as Labour/Greens,, but should still come up Trumps.
Do you really believe that? Their queens are just more hidden as so many of their cards are from a bygone era. The coalition hit the deck slipping on the champers and fag butts it spilled from the coalition talks….

’Do you think Trump is still a worthy hero?

[LEMON]

.........or perhaps 'evidence of common sense.'

Common sense? You and your mates are embarrassing

[777]

Common sense? You and your mates are embarrassing

Matching your bunch then.

[Getty]

’Do you think Trump is still a worthy hero?

Trumps as in cards.

Not the Poker.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, in the real world where the 'feel good' policies of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour were implemented with lots and lots of fanfare, the carnage continues.

The new government truly has its work cut out but it can count upon the goodwill of the majority of NZers who know just what a mess Labour has left behind on all fronts.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/10/18/construction-blowouts-in-mental-health-unit-and-other-health-projects/

"In October 2019, the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced $100m for a new mental health unit in Waikato. It was to open in mid-2023.

But four years later, the contractors haven’t even broken ground, and board papers released to Newsroom reveal that Te Whatu Ora has gone back to Cabinet this year for another $20.5m – a second funding increase for the project.

The costings for the mental health unit and neighbouring regional renal centre blew out to $155.1m in last year’s business case, and the start date was pushed back to mid-2023.

Now it’s late 2023 and officials are still quibbling with quantity surveyors over costings, which have now increased to $175.6m. No substantive start has been made on construction – though it’s understood construction firm Naylor Love has won the tender and has begun preparing the ground.

Te Whatu Ora proposed to fund the blowout from the wider health capital envelope, provisioned to cover just this eventuality of cost escalations in infrastructure projects"

How many people have died as a consequence of Labour's false promises and failures to deliver?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/zRxLCcXII5r9Pv0SVEi1vNFsMkQ=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/HE2FMGP6UIAGRR3MQC6CJ3RHRU.jpg

[LEMON]

Oh, good one 777

[Daytr]

Meanwhile, in the real world where the 'feel good' policies of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour were implemented with lots and lots of fanfare, the carnage continues.

The new government truly has its work cut out but it can count upon the goodwill of the majority of NZers who know just what a mess Labour has left behind on all fronts.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/10/18/construction-blowouts-in-mental-health-unit-and-other-health-projects/

"In October 2019, the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced $100m for a new mental health unit in Waikato. It was to open in mid-2023.

But four years later, the contractors haven’t even broken ground, and board papers released to Newsroom reveal that Te Whatu Ora has gone back to Cabinet this year for another $20.5m – a second funding increase for the project.

The costings for the mental health unit and neighbouring regional renal centre blew out to $155.1m in last year’s business case, and the start date was pushed back to mid-2023.

Now it’s late 2023 and officials are still quibbling with quantity surveyors over costings, which have now increased to $175.6m. No substantive start has been made on construction – though it’s understood construction firm Naylor Love has won the tender and has begun preparing the ground.

Te Whatu Ora proposed to fund the blowout from the wider health capital envelope, provisioned to cover just this eventuality of cost escalations in infrastructure projects"

How many people have died as a consequence of Labour's false promises and failures to deliver?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/zRxLCcXII5r9Pv0SVEi1vNFsMkQ=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/HE2FMGP6UIAGRR3MQC6CJ3RHRU.jpg

Yep absolute failure by Labour, one of many.

However your last question is uncalled for.
Labour squandered & wasted a lot of money sure, however they also were responsible for the new Dunedin hospital, extensions of many existing regional hospitals.

National in their nine years gutted the health system and left buildings to rot. They have also dropped the rebuild of the hospital in Whangarei which is of dire need. The new Minister of health's electorate I might add, at least we know there is no pork barreling going on. Oh but wait, instead of a hospital they will get out their Tonka toys & build a four lane highway at about 10 times the cost.

NAF just overturned Smokefree NZ & you ask how many lives the Labour Government cost?
You really haven't thought this through.

Nga Mihi

[dobby41]

How many will die to get a bit more tax money to make up for National's bad maths?
14882

Turn back the clock
14883

[jonu]

How many will die to get a bit more tax money to make up for National's bad maths?
14882

Turn back the clock
14883

Calm the farm dobby41. The smoking situation is the same as it was for Labour's 6 years in power, when they managed to bugger up pretty much every aspect of government in this country, as well as leave it broke for the people tasked with fixing the mess.

The Left losing it before Parliament had even opened is just getting silly. You would think everyone had done wonderfully well under Labour. That the health system was coping. That there was no housing crisis. That crime was low. That education was delivering. That child poverty had disappeared. That outcomes for Maori had improved in every measurable statistic (don't mention the census). That government departments hadn't bloated their staff numbers and yet spent billions more on consultants.

Luxon and co. have a fair bit to clean up. Perhaps letting them get on with it as the public voted for would be the responsible thing to do, rather than listening to the petulant and frankly pathetic bleatings of Hipkins and his sorry cohort of incompetents.

[Blue Skies]

Meanwhile, in the real world where the 'feel good' policies of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour were implemented with lots and lots of fanfare, the carnage continues.

The new government truly has its work cut out but it can count upon the goodwill of the majority of NZers who know just what a mess Labour has left behind on all fronts.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/10/18/construction-blowouts-in-mental-health-unit-and-other-health-projects/

"In October 2019, the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced $100m for a new mental health unit in Waikato. It was to open in mid-2023.

But four years later, the contractors haven’t even broken ground, and board papers released to Newsroom reveal that Te Whatu Ora has gone back to Cabinet this year for another $20.5m – a second funding increase for the project.

The costings for the mental health unit and neighbouring regional renal centre blew out to $155.1m in last year’s business case, and the start date was pushed back to mid-2023.

Now it’s late 2023 and officials are still quibbling with quantity surveyors over costings, which have now increased to $175.6m. No substantive start has been made on construction – though it’s understood construction firm Naylor Love has won the tender and has begun preparing the ground.

Te Whatu Ora proposed to fund the blowout from the wider health capital envelope, provisioned to cover just this eventuality of cost escalations in infrastructure projects"

How many people have died as a consequence of Labour's false promises and failures to deliver?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/zRxLCcXII5r9Pv0SVEi1vNFsMkQ=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/HE2FMGP6UIAGRR3MQC6CJ3RHRU.jpg





Labour saved thousands of lives, estimated 20,000 lives which would have been lost during the first years of the pandemic if National / ACT had been in government.
Its on record, you can look back & see National got it wrong so many times.

NZ was one of the only countries in the world where life expectance actually increased during the pandemic .

During the first years of the pandemic, incredibly we had spare capacity in the Health system as there were far fewer motor vehicle accidents, assaults, accidents & injuries die to alcohol, ACC claims etc.

For the first time the A&E departments of hospitals weren't overrun.
If you had an ACUTE condition or a cancer patient, generally you were treated without delays.

Certainly some routine annual checkups were missed, but if anyone presented themselves with symptoms, there were few delays.

Also remember Labour also increased the PHARMAC budget by a record 40%, showing how desperately underfunded it had been under National.

Key's govt was a govt which did nothing and didn't spend any money, while allowing massive numbers of immigrants into the country.
Hospitals were run down, maintenance deferred, same with school buildings, they closed around 30 Police stations or Kiosks, underfunded PHARMAC so we got further & further behind Australia in what was funded, & so on.

I just hope & lets see if this coalition govt matches or exceed the increase in funding for PHARMAC which we got under Labour. That will be telling!

[iceman]

Wow BS. That is genius. Close down the country and ban people from leaving their homes and go to work, school etc.
Then A&E suddenly is not busy. Incredibly clever that Jacinda

[jonu]

Wow BS. That is genius. Close down the country and ban people from leaving their homes and go to work, school etc.
Then A&E suddenly is not busy. Incredibly clever that Jacinda

I was thinking the same.

Oh, for the glory days of the pandemic lockdowns. Martial law. Two classes of citizen. (Announced with a smile). Daily propaganda briefings from the single source of truth. Rivers of filth. The Parliament grounds on fire. A revolving door of Cabinet sackings....those were the days alright. Do you think we could woo Cindy back from the celebrity circuit? We need her back so badly!

[jonu]

I was thinking the same.

Oh, for the glory days of the pandemic lockdowns. Martial law. Two classes of citizen. (Announced with a smile). Daily propaganda briefings from the single source of truth. Rivers of filth. The Parliament grounds on fire. A revolving door of Cabinet sackings....those were the days alright. Do you think we could woo Cindy back from the celebrity circuit? We need her back so badly!

This reminded me of a sad occurrence during the "Rule of Cindy".

A lovely old kuia who was dear to me died during that period. Being a law abiding citizen (pre-vaccine but unjabbed later anyway) I stayed away from her tangi, which according to the law from the single source of truth at the time was a gathering of max. 10 people. Unbeknown to me, the locals decided that 30 was an acceptable number at any one time. During the same period, Hone Harawira had taken upon himself to set up road blocks on the highway between Whangarei and Kawakawa.

The kuia was to be taken back to an urupa in Hone's neck of the woods. An email was sent to Hone saying they were coming with an entourage befitting the lady's stature. No response from Hone. A couple of days later a follow-up email was sent. No response. That was seen as confirmation that everything was Ka Pai, and sure enough there were no issues with the funeral procession to the urupa.

[jonu]

This reminded me of a sad occurrence during the "Rule of Cindy".

A lovely old kuia who was dear to me died during that period. Being a law abiding citizen (pre-vaccine but unjabbed later anyway) I stayed away from her tangi, which according to the law from the single source of truth at the time was a gathering of max. 10 people. Unbeknown to me, the locals decided that 30 was an acceptable number at any one time. During the same period, Hone Harawira had taken upon himself to set up road blocks on the highway between Whangarei and Kawakawa.

The kuia was to be taken back to an urupa in Hone's neck of the woods. An email was sent to Hone saying they were coming with an entourage befitting the lady's stature. No response from Hone. A couple of days later a follow-up email was sent. No response. That was seen as confirmation that everything was Ka Pai, and sure enough there were no issues with the funeral procession to the urupa.

It's got me going now.

On Friday night in the Rawene pub I was speaking with a kaumatua from the south side of the harbour, and a kuia from the north side. Both fluent in te reo from the cradle. Well, the kuia was fired up about Winston buggering around with the names of things, and the kaumatua piped up saying that Winston knew a thing or two.

So, I said to the kuia, "What does Waka Kotahi mean?

She looked a bit flummoxed and said "I dunno".

I said "How do you expect an ignorant honky like me to know?", at which she cracked up.

Well that sparked a conversation amongst multiple people, all respectful enough (although the politicians copped an earful), but none of the translations I heard of Waka Kotahi came anywhere near Transit NZ, or roading NZ, or transport NZ or anything else.

The way I see it is Te Reo is a very poetic language, but not given to precise definitions, which isn't always helpful naming government organisations... or for that matter, writing a treaty.

[Baa_Baa]

Wow BS. That is genius. Close down the country and ban people from leaving their homes and go to work, school etc.
Then A&E suddenly is not busy. Incredibly clever that Jacinda

Meanwhile fecking up almost everything else they touched. NatActNZF has a tall task ahead to undo all the disasters Labours' left behind.

[Blue Skies]

I was thinking the same.

Oh, for the glory days of the pandemic lockdowns. Martial law. Two classes of citizen. (Announced with a smile). Daily propaganda briefings from the single source of truth. Rivers of filth. The Parliament grounds on fire. A revolving door of Cabinet sackings....those were the days alright. Do you think we could woo Cindy back from the celebrity circuit? We need her back so badly!



Well the assertion was made,.. how many people died as a result of Labours false promises & failure to deliver?
Do you want a straight answer or not?

There's absolutely no question, if you look back over the last 6 years under Labour, far far fewer people died than would have under a National govt, primarily due

1) Ardern's govt's handling of the pandemic which resulted in one of the lowest death rates in the world.
2) the record 40% increase in funding for PHARMAC which provided life saving drugs for many people who would otherwise have died.

I don't expect you to agree, but there it is.

[jonu]

Well the assertion was made,.. how many people died as a result of Labours false promises & failure to deliver?
Do you want a straight answer or not?

There's absolutely no question, if you look back over the last 6 years under Labour, far far fewer people died than would have under a National govt, primarily due

1) Ardern's govt's handling of the pandemic which resulted in one of the lowest death rates in the world.
2) the record 40% increase in funding for PHARMAC which provided life saving drugs for many people who would otherwise have died.

I don't expect you to agree, but there it is.

Plucking figures out of thin air to say how many lives Cindy saved with her totalitarian measures is akin to "garbage in, garbage out". Don't lecture me on how many lives were saved while this country was screwed for the next generation. I've had covid. And was unvaccinated. The fear doesn't work anymore. All the vaccinated people I know had covid worse than I did. And they still line up for their boosters!

I'm just grateful I wasn't down for elective surgery during peak Cindy madness. Or cancer diagnosis, or....oh never mind. Go and do something useful and beg our Dear Leader to come back and lead us please Blue Skies. Drag her from the celebrity circuit...please! We need her to fix all the Sh**tshow she left behind in her fairy dust. Please.....Cindy....come back to us. Cindeeeeee, where are youuuuuu?

[777]

Well the assertion was made,.. how many people died as a result of Labours false promises & failure to deliver?
Do you want a straight answer or not?

There's absolutely no question, if you look back over the last 6 years under Labour, far far fewer people died than would have under a National govt, primarily due

1) Ardern's govt's handling of the pandemic which resulted in one of the lowest death rates in the world.
2) the record 40% increase in funding for PHARMAC which provided life saving drugs for many people who would otherwise have died.

I don't expect you to agree, but there it is.

You have no way of knowing how National/Act would have handled things. They would have had the same advice from the Minister of Health that Labour had and I expect that they would have acted the same way in the early stages of the pandemic. From then on it would been anyones guess but it would have been a responsible decision. The lockdowns would not have been so detrimental to the economy and the deaths would have been similar to what did eventuate. We would have been in a much better position now.

I don't expect you to agree, but there it is.

[blackcap]

Well the assertion was made,.. how many people died as a result of Labours false promises & failure to deliver?
Do you want a straight answer or not?

There's absolutely no question, if you look back over the last 6 years under Labour, far far fewer people died than would have under a National govt, primarily due

1) Ardern's govt's handling of the pandemic which resulted in one of the lowest death rates in the world.
2) the record 40% increase in funding for PHARMAC which provided life saving drugs for many people who would otherwise have died.

I don't expect you to agree, but there it is.

What a load of rubbish you write there.

[Baa_Baa]

There's absolutely no question, if you look back over the last 6 years under Labour, far far fewer people died than would have under a National govt, primarily due

You need to let go of this line of reasoning, it makes you look stupid and destroys your argument, because it is unknowable what "would have under a National govt".

We all know you love Jacinda and what they did in the pandemic, but it's time to move on, we are many years into getting over the whole traumatic experience of Covid.

Find another attack vector if you must, this one isn't working anymore.

[Daytr]

Plucking figures out of thin air to say how many lives Cindy saved with her totalitarian measures is akin to "garbage in, garbage out". Don't lecture me on how many lives were saved while this country was screwed for the next generation. I've had covid. And was unvaccinated. The fear doesn't work anymore. All the vaccinated people I know had covid worse than I did. And they still line up for their boosters!

I'm just grateful I wasn't down for elective surgery during peak Cindy madness. Or cancer diagnosis, or....oh never mind. Go and do something useful and beg our Dear Leader to come back and lead us please Blue Skies. Drag her from the celebrity circuit...please! We need her to fix all the Sh**tshow she left behind in her fairy dust. Please.....Cindy....come back to us. Cindeeeeee, where are youuuuuu?

I notice you didn't answer the question.
Just went on a rant.
Answer the question

[Daytr]

You need to let go of this line of reasoning, it makes you look stupid and destroys your argument, because it is unknowable what "would have under a National govt".

We all know you love Jacinda and what they did in the pandemic, but it's time to move on, we are many years into getting over the whole traumatic experience of Covid.

Find another attack vector if you must, this one isn't working anymore.

National couldn't even decide on a leader of their party at the time, so how were they expected to run the country, let alone the biggest pandemic in a 100 years.

Was it Bridges? Was it Collins or Mueller?
Do tell.

[Bjauck]

…

The way I see it is Te Reo is a very poetic language, but not given to precise definitions, which isn't always helpful naming government organisations... or for that matter, writing a treaty.
Actually that is a similar reaction that I had from A Māori speaking older lady the other day. I mentioned Waka kotahi. After clarifying things for her, she said that she didn’t understand how they used the language a lot of the time these days. She preferred the English names for organisations and governments for their being more precise.

I think the oral discussions surrounding the treaty would have been more important for the Māori of 1840.

[Bjauck]

I think no matter the colour of the government they would have had to have brought in a lockdown, either earlier or later. NZ did not/Does not have sufficient icu beds to cope with the surge of cases otherwise. I don’t think National would have been as chaotic as the British right wing government though.

[777]

National couldn't even decide on a leader of their party at the time, so how were they expected to run the country, let alone the biggest pandemic in a 100 years.

Was it Bridges? Was it Collins or Mueller?
Do tell.

You need help too.

[Blue Skies]

Plucking figures out of thin air to say how many lives Cindy saved with her totalitarian measures is akin to "garbage in, garbage out". Don't lecture me on how many lives were saved while this country was screwed for the next generation. I've had covid. And was unvaccinated. The fear doesn't work anymore. All the vaccinated people I know had covid worse than I did. And they still line up for their boosters!

I'm just grateful I wasn't down for elective surgery during peak Cindy madness. Or cancer diagnosis, or....oh never mind. Go and do something useful and beg our Dear Leader to come back and lead us please Blue Skies. Drag her from the celebrity circuit...please! We need her to fix all the Sh**tshow she left behind in her fairy dust. Please.....Cindy....come back to us. Cindeeeeee, where are youuuuuu?


The figure of 20,000 lives saved is from research by a group of 16 leading doctors & scientists & was published in the NZ Medical Journal. (Not plucked out of thin air)

I was one of thousands of cancer patient during the epidemic, & while chemotherapy would save us from dying it also temporarily smashed our immune systems, leaving us defenceless against viruses like Covid which would certainly kill us. Being airborne & highly transmitable, it was an extremely dangerous virus for anyone who was sick at the time or temporarily immunocompromised.

The govt's prioritised peoples health over money & closing the border & lockdowns allowed time for anti-virals like Paxlovid to be developed & the virus to mutate into a less lethal forms & vaccines to help those with less robust immune systems.
Up to one third of the population are immunocompromised at any one time due to all sorts of conditions, some medical treatments & age.
My cancer treatment & chemotherapy regime went ahead without a hitch right through the lockdowns, in fact it was the best time as the health system had plenty of spare capacity.
If the govt hadn't responded the way it did, I and thousands of others would not have survived catching Covid.
Fortunately now we have anti-virals, vaccines, & synthetic anti-bodies for those whose immune systems won't mount a strong enough response for vaccines to work effectively.

Unless you were battling cancer through that time it's difficult to understand how lucky we felt we were, though it was tough for many others, we really appreciated the sacrifices others made.



https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499516/new-zealand-s-covid-19-response-saved-20-000-lives-research

[Baa_Baa]

National couldn't even decide on a leader of their party at the time, so how were they expected to run the country, let alone the biggest pandemic in a 100 years.

Was it Bridges? Was it Collins or Mueller?
Do tell.

Irrelevant, BS asserts National would have done worse than Labour in the pandemic, it is unknowable, as National weren't making the decisions.

Don't bother creating a straw man (which you continually do) and argue it, many of us are far more adept and mature debaters than stooping to your straw man baseline, let alone responding to it.

[Baa_Baa]

National couldn't even decide on a leader of their party at the time, so how were they expected to run the country, let alone the biggest pandemic in a 100 years.

Was it Bridges? Was it Collins or Mueller?
Do tell.

Classic straw man argument, and exactly why National did not have to make the decisions or lead the response to the pandemic, Labour did, that is all, that is all the argument is about, whether Labour did it well. It has nothing to do with National, they didn't have the platform or the opportunity.

Focus on Labours response, National had absolutely nothing to do with it. Avoid the straw man argument if you wish your views and argument to be taken seriously. Defend Labour by all means, but do not deflect to a party who was not in government and had no influence, and zero control of the response.

It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with National.

[Blue Skies]

Irrelevant, BS asserts National would have done worse than Labour in the pandemic, it is unknowable, as National weren't making the decisions.

Don't bother creating a straw man (which you continually do) and argue it, many of us are far more adept and mature debaters than stooping to your straw man baseline, let alone responding to it.


I hate to disagree, but we know what National would have done because they kept telling us what they would have done.
In the early stages they kept changing their minds, one minute slamming the govt for the hard & fast lockdowns, then supporting them, then reversing again.
National were incoherent, but you can't behave that way when dealing with a highly contagious virus in a global pandemic. Once you open up & the virus gets a hold its too late.
Remember they wanted us to open the borders and drop all restrictions just before the second wave hit. It would have been disastrous.
Then National wanted the govt to build a billion dollar quarantine facility not long before we relaxed all restrictions.

[Daytr]

Irrelevant, BS asserts National would have done worse than Labour in the pandemic, it is unknowable, as National weren't making the decisions.

Don't bother creating a straw man (which you continually do) and argue it, many of us are far more adept and mature debaters than stooping to your straw man baseline, let alone responding to it.

NZ internationally is judged retrospectively as having had a world leading response to the pandemic. So much so as others like Australia followed suit.

Could they have managed the vaccine rollout better? Probably, however it's difficult for a small country to compete with much larger nations that were in more need than we were for the vaccines.

It's funny that many who complain about NZs response don't even believe the global vaccine rollout brought the pandemic under control.

And yes the opposition at the time is relevant, as they were a complete basket case, so had no hope of managing such a difficult period of time better than the Government of the day.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[Balance]

NZ records worse ever international PISA score for education thanks to the Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins and and Maori cabal.

Indoctrinate the kids with te reo, gender & cultural garbage while degrading maths, science, writing and reading - Labour has indeed achieved their aim of breeding a generation of intellectual retards (especially with the poor) who will vote Labour & the left as dependents and losers.

Watch the flood of excuses pouring out of the leftist educationalists as they attempt to defend the indefensible.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504020/nz-records-worst-ever-pisa-international-test-results-amid-global-decline


Phones, hunger and bad teachers were among problems revealed as New Zealand teens' scores dipped further in the PISA tests of reading, writing and maths.

The results published overnight showed average scores for this country's 15 year olds plunged 15 points in maths to 479 points, while their science and reading scores fell 4-5 points to 504 and 501 points respectively.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504035/student-hunger-bad-teachers-revealed-in-latest-pisa-tests-showing-dip-in-nz-teens-scores

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1661204640382-V8ZFU8I80YSQ2X42WVYR/curriculum+copy.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1648503207720-J3LOHAUUGPD1VNXTVKUN/School+Report.jpg?format=500w

https://api.whatsoninvers.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/history-1-e1621568610825.jpg

[Balance]

So entertaining! :D:t_up:

More! More!

Peters and Rawiri Waititi face off

There was little room for heckling given Peters' speech was mostly heckling everyone in the room - apart from his new coalition buddies.

Talking to new Green MP Efeso Collins, he said: "I know a bunch of losers when I see them."

On Waititi, he described, a man "so decolonised he wears a cowboy hat.":t_up:

Peters fired up at Te Pāti Māori, saying they did not represent Māori and rejected claims of racism directed at NZ First. Jackson, sitting opposite Peters, replied, "Oh, are you not a racist?"

Peters went on to quote Jackson's mother, the late Dame June Jackson, "Winston is not anit-Māori, he is anti-nonsense."

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/tie-630x493.jpg

[nztx]

So entertaining! :D:t_up:

More! More!

Peters and Rawiri Waititi face off

There was little room for heckling given Peters' speech was mostly heckling everyone in the room - apart from his new coalition buddies.

Talking to new Green MP Efeso Collins, he said: "I know a bunch of losers when I see them."

On Waititi, he described, a man "so decolonised he wears a cowboy hat.":t_up:

Peters fired up at Te Pāti Māori, saying they did not represent Māori and rejected claims of racism directed at NZ First. Jackson, sitting opposite Peters, replied, "Oh, are you not a racist?"

Peters went on to quote Jackson's mother, the late Dame June Jackson, "Winston is not anit-Māori, he is anti-nonsense."

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/tie-630x493.jpg


he said: "I know a bunch of losers when I see them."


No disputing that .. and he's only just getting warmed up :)

[Daytr]

So entertaining! :D:t_up:

More! More!

Peters and Rawiri Waititi face off

There was little room for heckling given Peters' speech was mostly heckling everyone in the room - apart from his new coalition buddies.

Talking to new Green MP Efeso Collins, he said: "I know a bunch of losers when I see them."

On Waititi, he described, a man "so decolonised he wears a cowboy hat.":t_up:

Peters fired up at Te Pāti Māori, saying they did not represent Māori and rejected claims of racism directed at NZ First. Jackson, sitting opposite Peters, replied, "Oh, are you not a racist?"

Peters went on to quote Jackson's mother, the late Dame June Jackson, "Winston is not anit-Māori, he is anti-nonsense."

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/tie-630x493.jpg

Peters who probably represents more aged middle class white people than any other party.
Pot calling...

[Balance]

Hear James Meager’s maiden speech and be inspired. He is part Maori and proud of his background and heritage.

Standing ovation from everyone (including the Opposition & the gallery) when he finished speaking.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/new-national-mp-james-meager-delivers-powerful-maiden-speech-telling-the-left-they-don-t-own-m-ori-the-poor-or-the-workers.html

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/new-national-mp-james-meager-delivers-powerful-maiden-speech-telling-the-left-they-don-t-own-m-ori-the-poor-or-the-workers/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1701827784533/getty-meager-1120.jpg

——————////———///———-

Standing ovation after James Meager, National MP for Rangitata, makes his maiden speech

The public gallery in the Housewas packed as National MP James Meager made his maiden speech - an important address all new MPs make which sets the tone for their time in Parliament, and sets out their vision and goals.

He gave a moving outline of his childhood, raised by a solo parent, where money was scarce.

"I know what it’s like to be poor. I know what it’s like to grow up sharing a bedroom with my brother until I was 18. I know what it’s like to walk everywhere because we didn’t have a car until I was 9. I know what it’s like to see a father struggle to pay his bills and borrow money from his kid’s school savings account.

I know what it’s like to see a solo mother juggle three kids, part time work, correspondence school and all the other worries that a single parent living in south Timaru has.

I know what it’s like to have your very first memory be of the police trying to coax you to come out from under the bed, telling you that everything would be
ok.

But make no mistake. We had a great life. We never went without. My Mum has steel in her bones and grit in her soul.

My recollection is that yes we were poor, but we were never in poverty. Mum always made sure there was food on the table, clothes on our backs, and books in our schoolbags."

He also gave rebuke to the Opposition:

"Perhaps to some I am a walking contradiction; a part-Māori boy raised in a state house by a single parent on the benefit, now a proud National Party MP in a deeply rural farming electorate in the middle of the South Island. But there is no contradiction there. Members opposite do not own Māori. Members opposite do not own the poor. Members opposite do not own the workers. No party and no ideology has a right to claim ownership over anything or anyone."

---------////--------------////----------

Compare and contrast with the moaning, whinging and hate-filled nothingness coming from the Opposition, especially Hipkins, the bleeding hearts (busy breeding beneficiaries & losers) and the part Māoris.

[iceman]

Peters who probably represents more aged middle class white people than any other party.
Pot calling...

I think you woke Lefties are more out of tune than Winston, Shane, Seymour etc. This about Willie (idiotic racist) Jackson: ""Peters went on to quote Jackson's mother, the late Dame June Jackson, "Winston is not anti-Māori, he is anti-nonsense.""

Read it and weep: https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/left-doesn-t-own-poor-maori-national-mp-james-meager-s-revealing-and-personal-maiden-statement/

[ynot]

Hear James Meager’s maiden speech and be inspired. He is part Maori and proud of his background and heritage.

Standing ovation from everyone (including the Opposition & the gallery) when he finished speaking.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/new-national-mp-james-meager-delivers-powerful-maiden-speech-telling-the-left-they-don-t-own-m-ori-the-poor-or-the-workers.html

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/new-national-mp-james-meager-delivers-powerful-maiden-speech-telling-the-left-they-don-t-own-m-ori-the-poor-or-the-workers/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1701827784533/getty-meager-1120.jpg

——————////———///———-

Standing ovation after James Meager, National MP for Rangitata, makes his maiden speech

The public gallery in the Housewas packed as National MP James Meager made his maiden speech - an important address all new MPs make which sets the tone for their time in Parliament, and sets out their vision and goals.

He gave a moving outline of his childhood, raised by a solo parent, where money was scarce.

"I know what it’s like to be poor. I know what it’s like to grow up sharing a bedroom with my brother until I was 18. I know what it’s like to walk everywhere because we didn’t have a car until I was 9. I know what it’s like to see a father struggle to pay his bills and borrow money from his kid’s school savings account.

I know what it’s like to see a solo mother juggle three kids, part time work, correspondence school and all the other worries that a single parent living in south Timaru has.

I know what it’s like to have your very first memory be of the police trying to coax you to come out from under the bed, telling you that everything would be
ok.

But make no mistake. We had a great life. We never went without. My Mum has steel in her bones and grit in her soul.

My recollection is that yes we were poor, but we were never in poverty. Mum always made sure there was food on the table, clothes on our backs, and books in our schoolbags."

He also gave rebuke to the Opposition:

"Perhaps to some I am a walking contradiction; a part-Māori boy raised in a state house by a single parent on the benefit, now a proud National Party MP in a deeply rural farming electorate in the middle of the South Island. But there is no contradiction there. Members opposite do not own Māori. Members opposite do not own the poor. Members opposite do not own the workers. No party and no ideology has a right to claim ownership over anything or anyone."

---------////--------------////----------

Compare and contrast with the moaning, whinging and hate-filled nothingness coming from the Opposition, especially Hipkins, the bleeding hearts (busy breeding beneficiaries & losers) and the part Māoris.
Great start to what could be a long and illustrious political future.
While the protesters had the time yesterday to winge about National and co winning the election, others were studiously working away at building a future for themselves.
In order to succeed in this life, hard work not moaning at the hand you are dealt can pay dividends.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-nationals-smokefree-strategy-is-doomed-to-fail/THKIIYXVFRBWLAOS2HGFPIS35A/

Labour’s Smokefree strategy was doomed to fail - Richard Prebble


Paywalled, but on the money :)


What more could anyone expect from a bunch of clueless clowns who have produced more failed initiatives & potholes nationwide in just six years than the whole lot have had hot dinners ;)

[nztx]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2023/12/business-liquidations-soar-as-cost-of-living-pressures-drive-drop-in-retail-spending-centrix.html

Business liquidations soar as cost of living pressures drive drop in retail spending - Centrix



Falling local spending as household budgets face greater pressure is leading to "unprecedented challenges" for the retail sector.

Credit bureau Centrix data shows business liquidations are up more than a third year-on-year, with the retail sector leading the charge.

It had to happen - didn't it and was starting to become quite evident from earlier in the year, if not before

Thanks - Labour ;)

[Ggcc]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2023/12/business-liquidations-soar-as-cost-of-living-pressures-drive-drop-in-retail-spending-centrix.html

Business liquidations soar as cost of living pressures drive drop in retail spending - Centrix




It had to happen - didn't it and was starting to become quite evident from earlier in the year, if not before

Thanks - Labour ;)
I am currently trying to help a small business get out of the kaka. They are trying hard to keep staff and customers happy. I have mentioned staff cuts and price hikes need to happen otherwise in 12 months he won't have a business. When I say staff cuts he is overstaffed already and the business is busy, just the costs have gotten out of control and they need to get passed on. You are better focussing on profit and not Turnover. Less turnover on higher margins means less in sales which means you can reduce staff.

[GTM 3442]

Like New Zealand healthcare, New Zealand education is a post-code lottery. Or in each case you pay to go private.

[Balance]

Like New Zealand healthcare, New Zealand education is a post-code lottery. Or in each case you pay to go private.

Education starts at home.

It starts with something as simple yet so effective as parents reading to their kids. Not plonk them in front of a TV or screen for hours and hours.

It continues with parents teaching their kids values & confidence which make them want to achieve great things.

It is about parents valuing education as the greatest equaliser (ever developed by mankind) to close wellbeing gaps in society.

Then, comes school education.

What is so hard about the above?

The answer lies in selfishness - selfish parents who procreate kids into the world without any heed of how they are going to bring up the kids to give them a good life via good education.

It also lies with politicians like the Labour society misfits (Ardern, Hipkins, Jan Tinetti & the Maori cabal) in the last 6 years using education as an indoctrination tool to breed uneducated Labour Party voters who are beneficiaries & losers.

https://www.odt.co.nz/sites/default/files/styles/odt_landscape_extra_large_4_3/public/story/2018/05/priority-1.jpg?itok=U0NsdQEy

[fungus pudding]

Education starts at home.

It starts with something as simple yet so effective as parents reading to their kids................


That presupposes the parents can read to start with.......

[Balance]

That presupposes the parents can read to start with.......

Surely there is absolutely no excuse for any parent being unable to read in a country with free education like NZ!

Then, there’s night classes for those who want to improve themselves in any number of educational institutions.

And definitely there is no reason for an illiterate parent to bring a child into this world unless they know how to bring up that child properly.

[nztx]

That presupposes the parents can read to start with.......


Not provided for under Labour's School Nanny Service as a part of the ''Lifestyle Protection Program' ? ;)

[Balance]

Auckland the least safe city in Australasia - courtesy of Ardern, Hipkins, Wokester Coster and the pro-crime Labour government :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/auckland-ranked-least-safe-city-in-australasia-new-report.html

A new report has ranked Tāmaki Makaurau Auckland as the least safe city in Australasia as a crime wave continues to grip the big city.

The Committee for Auckland with Deloitte and Tātaki Auckland Unlimited released The State of the City report which found Auckland's safety ranking has fallen for the third time to the city's lowest ranking since 2013.

"Auckland ranks only 124th in safety [out of 195], marking a three-year decline and positioning it among the lowest-performing peer cities on safety and bottom within Australasia," Committee for Auckland director Mark Thomas said.

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/the-illusion-of-crime.jpg

[Bjauck]

As someone in Auckland, it comes as no surprise. It has been obvious that in the last 5 years crime has increased. It is the deprived and overcrowded areas that seem to be the hotbed for the increase in crime.

Groups of unhelmeted young men on motorbikes also drive around with seeming impunity through red lights and through public parks among families. Of course they don’t always stay in the overcrowded ghettos that the policies of successive recent governments have created.

[Bjauck]

Surely there is absolutely no excuse for any parent being unable to read in a country with free education like NZ!

Then, there’s night classes for those who want to improve themselves in any number of educational institutions.

And definitely there is no reason for an illiterate parent to bring a child into this world unless they know how to bring up that child properly. Sure but priced out of home ownership and moving from one rental accommodation to another in the new-age Victorian gig economy is disruptive for children and their education. It is easier to fall between the cracks. The old age Victorians needed these kids as factory and cannon fodder. Does new age Victorian NZ just use immigrants for that?

[jonu]

At the beginning of this clip, I thought the interviewee was using overly dramatic language to describe the MSM's determined criticism of the newly elected coalition before the House had sat, in fact before the coalition agreement was inked.

Then I heard of his interactions with the MSM over the last few years and the editorial bias that he has personally experienced.

His name is Robert MacCulloch, and he is a Professor of Macro-Economics at Auckland University. Be prepared to have your eyes open as to the corrupt state of our media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ4ghjzMP5M

[Balance]

At the beginning of this clip, I thought the interviewee was using overly dramatic language to describe the MSM's determined criticism of the newly elected coalition before the House had sat, in fact before the coalition agreement was inked.

Then I heard of his interactions with the MSM over the last few years and the editorial bias that he has personally experienced.

His name is Robert MacCulloch, and he is a Professor of Macro-Economics at Auckland University. Be prepared to have your eyes open as to the corrupt state of our media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ4ghjzMP5M

Shows conclusively how the $55m media bribe worked an absolute treat for Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government.

The new government simply needs to clean OUT TVNZ and starve the other MSM of government revenues.

Party is over, girls and boys - like Andrew Shaw, pxssed off.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/political-wrap-luxon-and-hipkins-face-off-te-pati-maori-and-nz-first-butt-heads-mitchell-releases-expectations-for-coster/JS46TIIFGRAFTL2OHCET6YQSCE/

Political wrap: Luxon and Hipkins face off



Hipkins kicked things off, delivering the first speech in which he described the new Government as “pathetic” and a “disgrace”.


The majority of Kiwi's on Labour's performance & Chipkin's Leadership: "Pathetic” and a “Disgrace” ;)


And one of the more recent Mugshots of Coster - shows the Chief of the Copshop looking like something akin to 'A Fish Out of Water"' :)

How much more time left on the licence that Labour granted to occupy the spot ?

[Daytr]

At the beginning of this clip, I thought the interviewee was using overly dramatic language to describe the MSM's determined criticism of the newly elected coalition before the House had sat, in fact before the coalition agreement was inked.

Then I heard of his interactions with the MSM over the last few years and the editorial bias that he has personally experienced.

His name is Robert MacCulloch, and he is a Professor of Macro-Economics at Auckland University. Be prepared to have your eyes open as to the corrupt state of our media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ4ghjzMP5M

Seriously! The media want to overthrow the Government and don't accept the legitimacy of the election.
What planet are you on?
Isn't it the media's job to critique the Government of the day?
Despite yours and others on here there was plenty of criticism of Labour from the very outlets depicted.
Sean Plunket is a joke.
Anyone who pretends to be a journalist that leads supporting the interviewees position from the outset has no journalistic integrity.

[Daytr]

Division in the coalition of chaos already with Luxon basically stating Seymour's divisive referendum will never see light of day.
Seymour must be spitting tacks. Peters is meanwhile running rings around both of them.
Talk about a three ring circus, unfortunately though it's the clowns that are in charge.
A week in and what an absolute mess.

[iceman]

Division in the coalition of chaos already with Luxon basically stating Seymour's divisive referendum will never see light of day.
Seymour must be spitting tacks. Peters is meanwhile running rings around both of them.
Talk about a three ring circus, unfortunately though it's the clowns that are in charge.
A week in and what an absolute mess.

You are one desperate man. How can it be a division when it is clearly stated in the coalition agreement with ACT that it is supported to selection committee stage only and National having said from day one that they are not in favour of it !

[Blue Skies]

Disappointing the new govt limp response to the catastrophe unfolding before our very eyes in Gaza, especially as incredibly - the slaughter of innocent desperate civilians intensifies.

Ineffectual MP Paul Goldsmith, now promoted to National Minister of Justice refusing to call whats happening genocide, when we can see that's exactly what it is under the internationally recognised definition.

Under the International legal definition of the crime of genocide committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
Article 2 section C,
- Deliberately inflicting on a group of people conditions of life calculated to bring about its destruction in whole or in part.

- 1.7 million Palestinians forced to flee their homes, & flee again & again with no safe area to go, deliberately deprived of clean water, medicines, medical supplies even sterilisation of surgical equipment, food, the most basic hygiene, electricity & power, shelter, communication, the basics of life.

Indiscriminate bombing of schools, medical centres, refugee camps.
Over 47,000 Palestinian citizens severely wounded, almost 20,000 killed, 70% of them women & children, thousands of innocent children missing, thousands orphans.

After 2 months its estimated Israel has killed about 5,000 of the estimated 30,000 Hamas, but Hamas has probably recruited double that number because of & since the bombing & slaughter started.
If Netanyahu wants to eliminate Hamas, France's President Macron & others say this is going to take another 10 years.

When you hear people say Israel must eliminate Hamas, they think its something which will be over in months, it's ignorance.

International pressure must be brought to bear on both sides for an immediate ceasefire & negotiated 2 State settlement.

[Bjauck]

Tbh, given the history, I am surprised the IDF had not already been patrolling the Gaza border area with a fleet of drones, which may have picked up suspicious activity prior to terrorist incursion.

[blackcap]

Disappointing the new govt limp response to the catastrophe unfolding before our very eyes in Gaza, especially as incredibly - the slaughter of innocent desperate civilians intensifies.

Ineffectual MP Paul Goldsmith, now promoted to National Minister of Justice refusing to call whats happening genocide, when we can see that's exactly what it is under the internationally recognised definition.

Under the International legal definition of the crime of genocide committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
Article 2 section C,
- Deliberately inflicting on a group of people conditions of life calculated to bring about its destruction in whole or in part.

- 1.7 million Palestinians forced to flee their homes, & flee again & again with no safe area to go, deliberately deprived of clean water, medicines, medical supplies even sterilisation of surgical equipment, food, the most basic hygiene, electricity & power, shelter, communication, the basics of life.

Indiscriminate bombing of schools, medical centres, refugee camps.
Over 47,000 Palestinian citizens severely wounded, almost 20,000 killed, 70% of them women & children, thousands of innocent children missing, thousands orphans.

After 2 months its estimated Israel has killed about 5,000 of the estimated 30,000 Hamas, but Hamas has probably recruited double that number because of & since the bombing & slaughter started.
If Netanyahu wants to eliminate Hamas, France's President Macron & others say this is going to take another 10 years.

When you hear people say Israel must eliminate Hamas, they think its something which will be over in months, it's ignorance.

International pressure must be brought to bear on both sides for an immediate ceasefire & negotiated 2 State settlement.

How can it be genocide, when you compare the population of Palestinians from 1950's to now?
Check out the number of Jews in Arab countrys from 1948 to now. Huge downwards shift. With Palestinians, its the opposite. There are way more now then back in 1948. Not a very successful genocide by all accounts.

[Daytr]

You are one desperate man. How can it be a division when it is clearly stated in the coalition agreement with ACT that it is supported to selection committee stage only and National having said from day one that they are not in favour of it !

Oh yeah Seymour is really happy with Luxon right now. 🙄

[Daytr]

How can it be genocide, when you compare the population of Palestinians from 1950's to now?
Check out the number of Jews in Arab countrys from 1948 to now. Huge downwards shift. With Palestinians, its the opposite. There are way more now then back in 1948. Not a very successful genocide by all accounts.

Blackcap that is a very simplistic view of what has happened since 1948.
Yes of course Jews from all around the world moved to Israel after it was taken off the local Arab population that already occupied the area.

Here is Jimmy Carter back in 2009 I think it was explaining the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel. Carter was an expert on middle / east affairs.

https://youtu.be/uvtC_qzHVM4?feature=shared

[Bjauck]

Shows conclusively how the $55m media bribe worked an absolute treat for Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government.

The new government simply needs to clean OUT TVNZ and starve the other MSM of government revenues.

Party is over, girls and boys - like Andrew Shaw, pxssed off. Nothing says freedom for the fourth estate like a witch hunt and installation of “safe” executives at a broadcaster. Complete commercialisation would be the way to go though. We’d then end up with wall-to-wall kardashians and
“current affairs” about cosmetic surgery gone wrong. We’d then need the Brits (bbc), Americans (cnn) and Germans (DW) for in depth telly news about NZ.

[winner69]

Mike Hosking said the Government has had a good first week

[Panda-NZ-]

Nothing says freedom for the fourth estate like a witch hunt and installation of “safe” executives at a broadcaster. Complete commercialisation would be the way to go though. We’d then end up with wall-to-wall kardashians and
“current affairs” about cosmetic surgery gone wrong. We’d then need the Brits (bbc), Americans (cnn) and Germans (DW) for in depth telly news about NZ.

TVNZ has been trending that way for a while. Some have said it would be more effective to make RNZ a public broadcaster.

It's nice to have something which can spread NZ values (esp in the pacific region & australia) which doesn't involve x factor nz and building/property shows.

[davflaws]

How can it be genocide, when you compare the population of Palestinians from 1950's to now?
Check out the number of Jews in Arab countrys from 1948 to now. Huge downwards shift. With Palestinians, its the opposite. There are way more now then back in 1948. Not a very successful genocide by all accounts.

One of your sillier posts. I haven't heard anyone claim that the Israelis have beeen practicing genocide since 1948. Ethnic cleansing of some of the territory of modern Israel, certainly. But the label 'genocide' has been applied to the current performance of the IDF n Gaza. It seems to me to meet the UN definition.

There is no question that Hamas are barbarous thugs, and they are certainly a terrorist organisation by any reasonable definition. They killed around a thousand largely innocent people in Israel. The IDF have so far killed around twenty times that number of largely innocent people in Gaza, and the ratio may well be fifty times that number by the time this terrible business is over. Genocide is a fair call.

[davflaws]

Mike Hosking said the Government has had a good first week

Sean Plunket, Rodney Hide, and Michael Basset agree.
Funny that.

[Panda-NZ-]

Sean Plunket, Rodney Hide, and Michael Basset agree.
Funny that.

Ah, but what does roger douglas think? How about Richard prebble?

[Panda-NZ-]

Does Stephen Joyce want a board position.. there must be a point to writing all these opinion pieces after all this time.

[nztx]

Does Stephen Joyce want a board position.. there must be a point to writing all these opinion pieces after all this time.


Ryman doesn't appear anywhere near your aspirations even after so many posts ;)

infact has probably headed the opposite direction ..

[blackcap]

One of your sillier posts. I haven't heard anyone claim that the Israelis have beeen practicing genocide since 1948. Ethnic cleansing of some of the territory of modern Israel, certainly. But the label 'genocide' has been applied to the current performance of the IDF n Gaza. It seems to me to meet the UN definition.

There is no question that Hamas are barbarous thugs, and they are certainly a terrorist organisation by any reasonable definition. They killed around a thousand largely innocent people in Israel. The IDF have so far killed around twenty times that number of largely innocent people in Gaza, and the ratio may well be fifty times that number by the time this terrible business is over. Genocide is a fair call.

I just looked up the definition of genocide, and even if it is 50x, then they are not even close to genocide. It would have to be thousands of times.

Anyway, I wear my IDF shirt with pride.

[Blue Skies]

I just looked up the definition of genocide, and even if it is 50x, then they are not even close to genocide. It would have to be thousands of times.

Anyway, I wear my IDF shirt with pride.



We're talking about the legal criminal definition of the term Genocide as pertains to the Geneva Convention & defined in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, & ratified by the International Court of Justice.

(Not your online dictionary definition of the word genocide) .

I even wrote Article 2, section C out for you so you didn't have to look it up.

I shouldn't have to explain but under the legal criminal definition, genocide does not have a number, it also covers the destruction of part of a national, racial, ethical, religious group by deliberately withholding the basics necessary for life, e.g. medicines, water, power, food, shelter, hygiene etc.



Genocide was first recognised as a crime under international law in 1946 by the United Nations General Assembly (A/RES/96-I (https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/033/47/img/NR003347.pdf?OpenElement)). It was codified as an independent crime in the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20P unishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf) (the Genocide Convention). The Convention has been ratified by 153 States (as of April 2022). The International Court of Justice (ICJ) has repeatedly stated that the Convention embodies principles that are part of general customary international law. This means that whether or not States have ratified the Genocide Convention, they are all bound as a matter of law by the principle that genocide is a crime prohibited under international law. The ICJ has also stated that the prohibition of genocide is a peremptory norm of international law (or ius cogens) and consequently, no derogation from it is allowed.
The definition of the crime of genocide as contained in Article II of the Genocide Convention (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20P unishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf) was the result of a negotiating process and reflects the compromise reached among United Nations Member States in 1948 at the time of drafting the Convention. Genocide is defined in the same terms as in the Genocide Convention in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (https://www.icc-cpi.int/resource-library/Documents/RS-Eng.pdf) (Article 6), as well as in the statutes of other international and hybrid jurisdictions. Many States have also criminalized genocide in their domestic law; others have yet to do so.
Definition

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20P unishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:


Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[davflaws]

I just looked up the definition of genocide, and even if it is 50x, then they are not even close to genocide. It would have to be thousands of times.

Anyway, I wear my IDF shirt with pride.

One thousand times is a million people, thousands of times is the entire population of Gaza. By all means wear your IDF shirt with pride, but be sure to take your head out of your arse before you try to put it on.

[FTG]

The death of any human due to war, whether they be civilian, military, terrorist, etc is a very sad indictment of mankind. A reflection of how morally low some can steep.

Sadly, over the the last 100+ years we have continued to demonstrate this propensity to brutally & irrationally fight, with there consistently being 20+ wars & "skirmishes" raging across the globe at any one time. In the modern digital era, more so than ever before, the warring parties (and their moral supporters) will endeavour to 'influence' & control the public opinion. "Win the hearts & minds" of all & sundry - especially seen with religious wars. The use of dramatic & gruesome imagery is often deployed as part of any smoke & mirrors strategy. Gaza is a shameful example of this, right now...

- It is primarily Hamas that reports "total casualties" in Gaza are over 15,000. Yet they remain silent on how many of those are actually Hamas & Hezbollah militants & IS Jihadists.

- Meanwhile IDF reports that they have "eliminated" circa 6,000 terrorists & militants.

- Ask yourself, how many rockets are still being fired towards Israel every, single, day? From our couches in NZ, based on MSM reporting (or lack of), you likely think hardly any. Answer: dozens to hundreds, depending on the day.
- Ask yourself, what is the "failure rate" of those rockets fired from Gaza? Failure, as in they lose control of the weapon and it does not maintain the correct trajectory to its intended target.
Answer. 5 to 10%, with many rockets inflicting carnage (destruction & death) on their own territory!

Things are often not as they may appear. In this case, lots of Smoke and a few Mirrors. Lots of misinformation, disinformation & propaganda, from both sides.

[iceman]

I hope the Israel/Gaza war is not going to take over this thread, which was meant for our new Government. The international wars and fights are a whole new and different debate.

[Bjauck]

TVNZ has been trending that way for a while. Some have said it would be more effective to make RNZ a public broadcaster.

It's nice to have something which can spread NZ values (esp in the pacific region & australia) which doesn't involve x factor nz and building/property shows.
What are NZ’s values? It seems no-one can agree on them. Indigenous rights or one person one vote democracy; Right to affordable decent and secure homes or the primacy of landlord investors’ property rights; Freedom to protest and disrupt or the right to use the king’s highways without restriction.

[Daytr]

Hamas should stop hiding among the civilian population of Gaza, and come out and fight; if, at that point, Israel targeted the civilian population, there could be an argument for terming it "genocide", but current Israeli military action is most definitely not.

Perhaps they would if Israel would allow them
The only way to defend themselves or retaliate is through Guerilla war tactics as the Palestinians aren't allowed an army let alone that is funded & supplied by the United States

[Daytr]

I hope the Israel/Gaza war is not going to take over this thread, which was meant for our new Government. The international wars and fights are a whole new and different debate.

I just saw this & fair enough Iceman.
Suggest others if they want to discuss start a new thread.

That's not a suggestion for you Balance as your posts were so vile your whole thread got deleted.

[Balance]

Perhaps they would if Israel would allow them
The only way to defend themselves or retaliate is through Guerilla war tactics as the Palestinians aren't allowed an army let alone that is funded & supplied by the United States

Only a Jew hater would write garbage like the above.

[Bjauck]

Only a Jew hater would write garbage like the above. Not all Jews are Israelis.

[Balance]

Not all Jews are Israelis.

Not all Māoris are New Zealanders.

So what’s your point?

[Daytr]

Only a Jew hater would write garbage like the above.

On cue, your ugliness on display for everyone to see. I wonder what my Jewish friends would think?


Not all Jews are Israelis.

I would suggest most Jewish people aren't Israeli& I don't hate Israelis either. I just hate the persecution that Israel has inflicted on the Palestinians for decades.

Anyway back on topic.
What can the coalition of chaos inflict on us this week?

What have we had so far? Smoke Free NZ dropped, well that went down like a cup of cold sick.

Peter's threatening the media. All the rightys on here only want their media represented, as we only want to hear what we agree with. We want Hoskins to tell us soothingly how good it is to be one eyed & selfish.

And then there was Luxon letting Seymour know publicly that his referendum has no show. Actually kudos to Luxon for having some ethics & balls, but it won't have given Seymour the warm fuzzies.

Well that should get the thread back on track.
Thank me later.

[Bjauck]

Not all Māoris are New Zealanders.

So what’s your point?See Daytr’s response above.

[Balance]

See Daytr’s response above.

Garbage from the acknowledged Jew hater Daytr.

Only a Jew hater would go back to 1948 without acknowledging that it was the Arab states and Palestinians who rejected the UN partition mandate. They were the ones who then vowed to destroy Israel & drive the Jews out of Israel.

The fact that Israel was able to win the war then and has continued to defend itself against aggression seems to be a sore point & cause angst with the Jew haters like woke leftist Daytr and Blue Skies.

Israel stands out as a democratic, progressive, successful and stable state in the Middle East vs all the other dictatorships & authoritarian states there. Typical of the woke left, that is an affront to them - they prefer Iran, Hamas and Syria as that’s how they like to govern.

Ardern is the best example of how the woke left behaves when they are in power.

[Daytr]

That's because it was Arab land.
Of course they rejected it.
We can go way back to the 12 tribes of Israel and only two tribes stuck with Judaism the rest returned to paganism.
Or that Ishmael was the son of Abraham.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/clear-out-at-waka-kotahi-nz-transport-agency-includes-exit-of-chairman-paul-reynolds/JAI546ECORAJXKG55OBNSB3AU4/

Clear-out at Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency includes exit of chairman Paul Reynolds



Paul Reynolds, the former chairman of Waka Kotahi the NZ Transport Agency, has resigned from the board.

Reynolds had been on the board only since February.

Cassandra Cowley has been appointed acting chairwoman.

Patrick Reynolds, also appointed to the board by the former Labour Government, has also resigned. Both names have gone from the Waka Kotahi website.


Must have mistaken the Tar Wagon ordered in to fix a few pot holes for a Red Hot poker & flamethrower headed their way ;)

And then there was the Elderly gentleman swinging a sword at the Masthead outside remove any trace of a Waka, while all the boys & girls continued blissfully dreaming away inside, with the stockpile of pot holes multiplying further nationwide unsupervised

Fancy deserting the Waka of Untold Potholes and other humungous Public Craters so fast just after a new Govt appears .. hope the indigestion doesn't lead to something more serious, like falling into a large pothole ;)

[nztx]

I hope the Israel/Gaza war is not going to take over this thread, which was meant for our new Government. The international wars and fights are a whole new and different debate.


Indeed - new thread needed for that

[Blue Skies]

Garbage from the acknowledged Jew hater Daytr.

Only a Jew hater would go back to 1948 without acknowledging that it was the Arab states and Palestinians who rejected the UN partition mandate. They were the ones who then vowed to destroy Israel & drive the Jews out of Israel.

The fact that Israel was able to win the war then and has continued to defend itself against aggression seems to be a sore point & cause angst with the Jew haters like woke leftist Daytr and Blue Skies.

Israel stands out as a democratic, progressive, successful and stable state in the Middle East vs all the other dictatorships & authoritarian states there. Typical of the woke left, that is an affront to them - they prefer Iran, Hamas and Syria as that’s how they like to govern.

Ardern is the best example of how the woke left behaves when they are in power.




You've fallen into the trap either deliberately or through ignorance, of trying to silence criticism of Netanyahu his most extreme right-wing coalition govt, & its current slaughter of almost 20,000 trapped defenceless Palestinians -70% who are women & children, by conflating criticism of Netanyahu & his govt with anti-Semitism.

There was an interesting discussion of this deceitful strategy of conflating criticism with anti-Semitism last night by a panel of Human Rights experts on Al Jazeera.
But we can all see with our own eyes what is happening & you would have to be inhuman not to be shocked & appalled by the scale of suffering.

[Daytr]

In case you missed it a telling opinion piece on the new Government from Sir Ian Taylor who was pretty critical of Labour in the last couple of years.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301019123/sir-ian-taylor-the-unintended-consequences-of-the-new-government

[iceman]

In case you missed it a telling opinion piece on the new Government from Sir Ian Taylor who was pretty critical of Labour in the last couple of years.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301019123/sir-ian-taylor-the-unintended-consequences-of-the-new-government

How many other people resigned from Gumboot Friday, that hasbeen given millions by the Coalition and for the first time in years, have secured ongoing funding ? Sadly Sir Ian is now just making political statements without any foundation. Unlike what he did during COVID when he talked common sense

[BDL]

In case you missed it a telling opinion piece on the new Government from Sir Ian Taylor who was pretty critical of Labour in the last couple of years.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301019123/sir-ian-taylor-the-unintended-consequences-of-the-new-government

He actually sounds like someone who cannot accept anyone else's opinion, and therefore is bitter and twisted to the extreme. Like he is the only one that could be right.....

[davflaws]

How many other people resigned from Gumboot Friday, that hasbeen given millions by the Coalition and for the first time in years, have secured ongoing funding ? Sadly Sir Ian is now just making political statements without any foundation. Unlike what he did during COVID when he talked common sense

Yeah yeah yeah. When he was bagging Labour he was an honest man with unquestionable integrity. Now he is directly comtradicting the lie that Labour effectively bribed the media he is just "making political statements".

When he was echoing the Right's talking points, he was one of the good guys. Now he is criticising the current government's actions, he's gone bad. And he uses Te Reo too!

[Daytr]

How many other people resigned from Gumboot Friday, that hasbeen given millions by the Coalition and for the first time in years, have secured ongoing funding ? Sadly Sir Ian is now just making political statements without any foundation. Unlike what he did during COVID when he talked common sense

His opinion piece wasn't about Gumboot Friday but the ability to speak out.

I agree though I am pleased that the new Government is helping fund GumbootFriday. I could never understand why Labour didn't. Well I do, they had stopped listening, like when Maori offered to help roll out the vaccine to their people in the regions. It just made sense but Labour thought they could do better.


He actually sounds like someone who cannot accept anyone else's opinion, and therefore is bitter and twisted to the extreme. Like he is the only one that could be right.....

Hardly, he has worked on Charitable & Venture Capital Boards and other community based initiatives. Someone who actually gives a sh1t and gives back, whether you agree with him or not. What you state is a clear definition of Tall Poppy Syndrome.


Yeah yeah yeah. When he was bagging Labour he was an honest man with unquestionable integrity. Now he is directly comtradicting the lie that Labour effectively bribed the media he is just "making political statements".

When he was echoing the Right's talking points, he was one of the good guys. Now he is criticising the current government's actions, he's gone bad. And he uses Te Reo too!

Spot on Davflaws.
Hey but the Far Right only want a media that promotes their agenda and nothing should be scrutinized or criticized.

That is very much in line with Far Right extremism.

[Blue Skies]

Interested to see ACT's David Seymour, saying they intend to repeal Labour's Anti-Hate Speech Laws which they find deeply offensive, while at the same time over in the US, University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magil has just been forced to resign over her disastrous testimony to Congress, struggling to say whether calls for genocide against Jews would constitute bullying or harassment under the universities code of conduct.

There have also been calls for Harvard President Claudine Gay & MIT President Sally Kornbruth to resign over not explicitly saying calls for genocide against Jews would constitute harassment or bullying, but depending on the circumstances, & context. Wealthy donors to all these universities have threatened to withdraw funding.

Hard to reconcile free speech & everyone should be allowed to express their opinions (according to ACT election policy) with such hateful rhetoric.

This govt might just be opening a Pandora's box by repealing our Anti-Hate speech legislation.

[Blue Skies]

Mike Hosking said the Government has had a good first week


Yes nothing to see here, move along...

except for,

a new Cabinet Minister (Brooke van Veldon) publicly admonished by the Commissioner for the Environment for misquoting him
not 1 but 2 embarrassing Cabinet leaks in a week,
a significant nationwide protest over anger at the govt stance on Maori, 'Maori Action Day,' a portent of things to come.
The Maori King issuing a Royal Proclamation for a nation wide hui, uniting Maori voices in opposition to the govt's policies undoing decades of justice for Maori.
Tongan Community Leaders in Auckland saying they are saddened & appalled by the govt's anti-Maori policies and the Pacifica community stand with Maori
Strain between National's new Maori MP, Tama Potaka & Chris Luxon over his own govt's policies, saying there have been "robust discussions"
An open letter signed by 105 Health organisations to Chris Luxon strongly condemming the govt intention to repeal Smokefree 2025
Around the world, disbelief, shock & condemnation of the govt's intension to ignore overwhelming Public Health & scientific evidence & repeal Smokefree 2025, in order to pay for tax cuts.
Anger from Environmental Groups at the govt intention to repeal the ban on offshore drilling for oil & gas,
Nicola Willis becoming increasingly anxious as the hard cold reality of being in govt & keeping all 3 Parties election promises with the demands for govt support coming from everywhere, while also giving tax cuts, & maintaining a Public Service capable of delivering for the govt.
NZ's international reputation tarnished as an outlier by not joining 128 other nations & signing the WHO updates & amendments necessary due to the global Covid Pandemic, as a result of NZF's putting its own conspiracy voters support ahead of NZ's interests.
International coverage of our Deputy PM accusing our main media, TV1 & RNZ among others of accepting bribes from the previous govt, again putting the interests of NZF's conspiracy voters ahead of the countries best interests & putting Chris Luxon in a difficult position.

And that's a good week folks.
Chris Luxon looks comfortable in his new role but he's got a heck of a job ahead of him managing this coalition.

[blackcap]

Yes nothing to see here, move along...

except for,

a new Cabinet Minister (Brooke van Veldon) publicly admonished by the Commissioner for the Environment for misquoting him
not 1 but 2 embarrassing Cabinet leaks in a week,
a significant nationwide protest over anger at the govt stance on Maori, 'Maori Action Day,' a portent of things to come.
The Maori King issuing a Royal Proclamation for a nation wide hui, uniting Maori voices in opposition to the govt's policies undoing decades of justice for Maori.
Tongan Community Leaders in Auckland saying they are saddened & appalled by the govt's anti-Maori policies and the Pacifica community stand with Maori
Strain between National's new Maori MP, Tama Potaka & Chris Luxon over his own govt's policies, saying there have been "robust discussions"
An open letter signed by 105 Health organisations to Chris Luxon strongly condemming the govt intention to repeal Smokefree 2025
Around the world, disbelief, shock & condemnation of the govt's intension to ignore overwhelming Public Health & scientific evidence & repeal Smokefree 2025, in order to pay for tax cuts.
Anger from Environmental Groups at the govt intention to repeal the ban on offshore drilling for oil & gas,
Nicola Willis becoming increasingly anxious as the hard cold reality of being in govt & keeping all 3 Parties election promises with the demands for govt support coming from everywhere, while also giving tax cuts, & maintaining a Public Service capable of delivering for the govt.
NZ's international reputation tarnished as an outlier by not joining 128 other nations & signing the WHO updates & amendments necessary due to the global Covid Pandemic, as a result of NZF's putting its own conspiracy voters support ahead of NZ's interests.
International coverage of our Deputy PM accusing our main media, TV1 & RNZ among others of accepting bribes from the previous govt, again putting the interests of NZF's conspiracy voters ahead of the countries best interests & putting Chris Luxon in a difficult position.

And that's a good week folks.
Chris Luxon looks comfortable in his new role but he's got a heck of a job ahead of him managing this coalition.

I think you will find they are public servant leaks, not cabinet leaks. You are just being disingeneous.

The anger from environmental groups, well that is just the cherry on the cake. Let them rage.

[nztx]

Yes nothing to see here, move along...

except for,

a new Cabinet Minister (Brooke van Veldon) publicly admonished by the Commissioner for the Environment for misquoting him
not 1 but 2 embarrassing Cabinet leaks in a week,
a significant nationwide protest over anger at the govt stance on Maori, 'Maori Action Day,' a portent of things to come.
The Maori King issuing a Royal Proclamation for a nation wide hui, uniting Maori voices in opposition to the govt's policies undoing decades of justice for Maori.
Tongan Community Leaders in Auckland saying they are saddened & appalled by the govt's anti-Maori policies and the Pacifica community stand with Maori
Strain between National's new Maori MP, Tama Potaka & Chris Luxon over his own govt's policies, saying there have been "robust discussions"
An open letter signed by 105 Health organisations to Chris Luxon strongly condemming the govt intention to repeal Smokefree 2025
Around the world, disbelief, shock & condemnation of the govt's intension to ignore overwhelming Public Health & scientific evidence & repeal Smokefree 2025, in order to pay for tax cuts.
Anger from Environmental Groups at the govt intention to repeal the ban on offshore drilling for oil & gas,
Nicola Willis becoming increasingly anxious as the hard cold reality of being in govt & keeping all 3 Parties election promises with the demands for govt support coming from everywhere, while also giving tax cuts, & maintaining a Public Service capable of delivering for the govt.
NZ's international reputation tarnished as an outlier by not joining 128 other nations & signing the WHO updates & amendments necessary due to the global Covid Pandemic, as a result of NZF's putting its own conspiracy voters support ahead of NZ's interests.
International coverage of our Deputy PM accusing our main media, TV1 & RNZ among others of accepting bribes from the previous govt, again putting the interests of NZF's conspiracy voters ahead of the countries best interests & putting Chris Luxon in a difficult position.

And that's a good week folks.
Chris Luxon looks comfortable in his new role but he's got a heck of a job ahead of him managing this coalition.


Anything to gloss over Labour wanting to pull a large smokescreen over the Fiscal Cliff and Economic disaster zone
they left behind must be fair game from the left now ;)

[nztx]

Interested to see ACT's David Seymour, saying they intend to repeal Labour's Anti-Hate Speech Laws which they find deeply offensive, while at the same time over in the US, University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magil has just been forced to resign over her disastrous testimony to Congress, struggling to say whether calls for genocide against Jews would constitute bullying or harassment under the universities code of conduct.

There have also been calls for Harvard President Claudine Gay & MIT President Sally Kornbruth to resign over not explicitly saying calls for genocide against Jews would constitute harassment or bullying, but depending on the circumstances, & context. Wealthy donors to all these universities have threatened to withdraw funding.

Hard to reconcile free speech & everyone should be allowed to express their opinions (according to ACT election policy) with such hateful rhetoric.

This govt might just be opening a Pandora's box by repealing our Anti-Hate speech legislation.


How did the Pandora's box that Labour left behind look ? .. empty, unfunded & near on 'on the bones of it's ass'
while Robbo had gone silent on the rapidly becoming obvious following things falling apart badly in past 12 months ;)

[Blue Skies]

I think you will find they are public servant leaks, not cabinet leaks. You are just being disingeneous.

The anger from environmental groups, well that is just the cherry on the cake. Let them rage.

Wasn't being disingenuous Blackcap, the term is 'Cabinet Leaks' regardless of who leaked or publishes them, because they are leaks of confidential Cabinet papers, documents or discussions.
Leaks happen but extremely unusual in first week & not once but twice which would have rocked the govt.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-rocked-by-second-leak-in-five-days-ministers-suspend-analysis-of-repeal-proposals/I4UDII5ZFJCE7IDVTYC63UYEIE/

[Balance]

Wasn't being disingenuous Blackcap, the term is 'Cabinet Leaks' regardless of who leaked or publishes them, because they are leaks of confidential Cabinet papers, documents or discussions.
Leaks happen but extremely unusual in first week & not once but twice which would have rocked the govt.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-rocked-by-second-leak-in-five-days-ministers-suspend-analysis-of-repeal-proposals/I4UDII5ZFJCE7IDVTYC63UYEIE/

Rocked the government? Rocking and rolling more like.

Shows how corrupted and entitled the civil service had become under Ardern, Hipkins and the useless Labour government.

Good news is that many of them are going to be out of their cushy jobs soon.

Most satisfying!

[Balance]

Good riddance.

How has the health system improve with his presence in the last 6 years? Gone backwards big time no thanks to do-gooders like him.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sir-collin-tukuitonga-resigns-from-nz-government-roles-citing-no-confidence/SNOMD4MPOBHK5NLU26SUACOVV4/

[Joshuatree]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67574419
Looks like a win/ win to this divisive govt but a big loss in reality.

[Ggcc]

Good riddance.

How has the health system improve with his presence in the last 6 years? Gone backwards big time no thanks to do-gooders like him.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sir-collin-tukuitonga-resigns-from-nz-government-roles-citing-no-confidence/SNOMD4MPOBHK5NLU26SUACOVV4/

It is interesting as the main focus on helping Maori is to let them make decisions themselves, that better themselves. I am married to a Maori lady and the amount of victim mentality coming from her side of the family is astounding. I try to bridge the gap and don't begrudge them as they are family, but hitting my head against a brick wall only leaves me with the headache. I preach by the OARBED model. I keep saying to stop being the victim and become the victor!!

[Joshuatree]

You're easy meat for believing this govts propaganda,maybe youre a copy writer for them.
"Off the rails "more like it.

[Balance]

You're easy meat for believing this govts propaganda,maybe youre a copy writer for them.
"Off the rails "more like it.

Yawn - from one of the mouthpieces from the ‘most transparent government ever’ and ‘the one source of truth.’

All spin, BS and zero delivery.

Kiss my arse.

[tim23]

Mike Hosking said the Government has had a good first week
If Mike said it it must be true- like he famously in early 2020 that COVID was just like the flu - nothing to see here - nice one Mike.

[Blue Skies]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67574419
Looks like a win/ win to this divisive govt but a big loss in reality.


Chris Luxon is such a salesman, in defending his govt repealing Smokefree 2025 he keeps repeating smoking rates have dropped to 8% (this is for overall population) & continue dropping.

BUT what he doesn't say but knows (& journalists questioning him seem too dumb or uninformed to raise it,) is smoking rates for Maori are currently 20% & for Pacifica just over 18%

No wonder Maori are furious & many Doctors are now calling for Health Minister Shane Reti to lose his medical registration.

Smokefree 2025 would save thousands of lives & save an est. $2.9 billion in future health care costs, BUT the govt doesn't want all those smokers to quit because it needs those smokers money...for tax cuts!
Because $20 a fortnight is going to solve the cost of living crisis !

National never once mentioned they would repeal Smokefree 2025 prior to the election, they have NO mandate to do this.

[Balance]

Good riddance.

How has the health system improve with his presence in the last 6 years? Gone backwards big time no thanks to do-gooders like him.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sir-collin-tukuitonga-resigns-from-nz-government-roles-citing-no-confidence/SNOMD4MPOBHK5NLU26SUACOVV4/

Looks to me more like he jumped before the disaster which is te WTF Ora attaches to his name.

Soonest all of Labour’s appointees exit their positions in Health NZ, the better.

Just pxssed off, you useless lot - just know how to spend like Ardern & Robertson without any accountability & delivery.

[Bill Smith]

Why, if Maori want to stop smoking, don't they stop? Why do they wait for the government to force them to stop? Where is it shown that "Maori are furious? Where is the list of doctors that want Dr Reti stripped of his medical registration? Why are those doctors not clamouring for Verall to lose her medical registration in light of the damage she did to the health system? So many questions, but ol BS will have no coherent answers.

[Balance]

Why, if Maori want to stop smoking, don't they stop? Why do they wait for the government to force them to stop? Where is it shown that "Maori are furious? Where is the list of doctors that want Dr Reti stripped of his medical registration? Why are those doctors not clamouring for Verall to lose her medical registration in light of the damage she did to the health system? So many questions, but ol BS will have no coherent answers.

Labour appointees and fat cats scrambling to cover their tracks after the disaster which is te WTF Ora.

[nztx]

You're easy meat for believing this govts propaganda,maybe youre a copy writer for them.
"Off the rails "more like it.

No - Off the Rails was the diagnosis by the majority of Kiwi's on Ardern's & then Hipkins' clueless huddle of dropkicks, that got biffed out ;)

[Getty]

Why, if Maori want to stop smoking, don't they stop? Why do they wait for the government to force them to stop? Where is it shown that "Maori are furious? Where is the list of doctors that want Dr Reti stripped of his medical registration? Why are those doctors not clamouring for Verall to lose her medical registration in light of the damage she did to the health system? So many questions, but ol BS will have no coherent answers.

Well asked.

I was going to post something similar, but as you have already done so, l endorse your post.

[Balance]

Labour appointees and fat cats scrambling to cover their tracks after the disaster which is te WTF Ora.

https://otaihangasecondopinion.files.wordpress.com/2022/07/jeff-bell-cartoon-health-minister-stuff-7-august-2022.jpg

[Balance]

Why, if Maori want to stop smoking, don't they stop? Why do they wait for the government to force them to stop? Where is it shown that "Maori are furious? Where is the list of doctors that want Dr Reti stripped of his medical registration? Why are those doctors not clamouring for Verall to lose her medical registration in light of the damage she did to the health system? So many questions, but ol BS will have no coherent answers.

Because they want to be PAID to stop smoking.

Just like they wanted (and they were successful) to be PAID to get vaccinated and to be counted in the census.

Primitive mindset - similar to the cargo cult mentality of the Papua New Guineans during and after WW2. If they wait around, goods will fall out of the sky into their laps.

https://jointhedwts.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/c51df-cargocult.jpg?w=708&h=528

[nztx]

https://otaihangasecondopinion.files.wordpress.com/2022/07/jeff-bell-cartoon-health-minister-stuff-7-august-2022.jpg


Poor fellow - how may lives did he go through, before finally departing with no fanfare off to a more relaxed retired post-political lifestyle after a monumental landslide ? )

[Blue Skies]

Why, if Maori want to stop smoking, don't they stop? Why do they wait for the government to force them to stop? Where is it shown that "Maori are furious? Where is the list of doctors that want Dr Reti stripped of his medical registration? Why are those doctors not clamouring for Verall to lose her medical registration in light of the damage she did to the health system? So many questions, but ol BS will have no coherent answers.



There's lots of research available on this & I was going to post a number of links to research on why smoking rates are still much higher in Maori, but then thought if you & Getty are really interested & not just being anti-Maori, here's some homework for you - look it up yourself.

If you read or listen to any of the main stream media, hard to see how you've missed the shock & anger & widespread condemnation of the govt's plan to scrap Smokefree 2025.
There's a rally hosted by the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists to oppose the govt plan to scrap Smokefree 2025 being held in Wellington later this week.

[nztx]

There's lots of research available on this & I was going to post a number of links to research on why smoking rates are still much higher in Maori, but then thought if you & Getty are really interested & not just being anti-Maori, here's some homework for you - look it up yourself.

If you read or listen to any of the main stream media, hard to see how you've missed the shock & anger & widespread condemnation of the govt's plan to scrap Smokefree 2025.
There's a rally hosted by the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists to oppose the govt plan to scrap Smokefree 2025 being held in Wellington later this week.


The Greenies must still have a fair bit of work ahead seeing if they can pass on the ins & outs of growing a bit of green carnation instead and whether it's more to the liking of some ;)

Freedom of choice you know .. must be something in the old Treaty that provided for that too :)

Some might even like some of the other that the Cuzzies on bikes have a bit of stock to move too ..

Some of the population just may not have a lot of trust or can't be bothered with some of the deposed and backward thinking talent from Wellington Glass Towers who tried to decree what vices they could or couldn't have, even after stabbing all the participants badly in the pocket for it :)

[Balance]

The Labour government preferred Māori to get into drugs rather than cigarettes. That’s why the gangs were given money so that they learn how to more efficiently distribute drugs.

[iceman]

BUT what he doesn't say but knows (& journalists questioning him seem too dumb or uninformed to raise it,) is smoking rates for Maori are currently 20% & for Pacifica just over 18%
.

Surely you’re not coming to the conclusion that the policies of “for maori by maori” have been an abject failure ?
Maybe it will be helpful for quickly implementing a change that we have people like Sir Collin and others quitting to make way for people that hopefully will be more effective

[Balance]

Surely you’re not coming to the conclusion that the policies of “for maori by maori” have been an abject failure ?
Maybe it will be helpful for quickly implementing a change that we have people like Sir Collin and others quitting to make way for people that hopefully will be more effective

Yup - Labour’s appointees in all the government agencies & departments are as useless as the Ardern & Hipkins government.

No other way to account for the disasters in health, education, policing and housing.

Appointed to be fat cats, not for their competency & capability but for their ‘diversity’ and loyalty to Labour’s woke, racist & leftist policies & doctrine.

The sooner they all pxssed off like Sir Collin, the better.

Big job ahead for the new government to clean up the messes and wasteful spending by Labour. Starts with getting rid of the fat cats.

[Blue Skies]

Surely you’re not coming to the conclusion that the policies of “for maori by maori” have been an abject failure ?
Maybe it will be helpful for quickly implementing a change that we have people like Sir Collin and others quitting to make way for people that hopefully will be more effective


No of course not, if you take Maori living in a suburb like Epsom, their smoking rates are about the same as for Pakeha, but if you take Maori smoking rates in a suburb like Manurewa (Sth Auckland) their smoking rates are 3 x higher. So part of it (there's other factors as well ) is to do with socio-economic factors which won't be fixed by scrapping Fair-pay agreements or lower wages.
Maori smokers are also coming off a much higher base.
Maori women have among the highest rates of lung cancer in the world & of course smoking is damaging to unborn babies during pregnancy & second hand smoke damaging to young children.

It's really quite shocking Dr Shane Reti the Minister of Health is complicit in this trade-off of human lives & misery for money... for tax cuts.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[Balance]

And Andrew Little (with blood on his hands from screwing up the heathcare system) proclaimed that he is happy with the job he did!

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/4/z/1/n/x/0/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800 .26196z.png/1674727532024.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/healthcare-workers-savage-health-minister-andrew-little-s-claim-hospital-demand-is-dissipating.html

An Auckland hospital worker called Steph told AM the Minister's suggestion demand is dropping is "an absolute lie".

"To hear him say that these situations are dissipating is an absolute lie. I work in a hospital in Auckland - it is rammed," they said.

"Corridors are full, wait times are crazy, elective operating lists have been cancelled because of bed shortages. Staff shortages are an issue, but so is the simple fact that our health system is way under-resourced and nothing changed in the two years the borders were closed and the Government was preparing for the health system to have increased capacity."

[Daytr]

I see the indefensible is being defended I.e. the back track on Smokefree NZ, that National & far as I'm aware ACT had backed previously but NZF get this into the coalition agreement despite not campaigning on it. Why didn't they campaign on it?
Because if voters had known NZF may not have got back into parliament.

The reintroduction of the three month trial period for employers to sack staff without cause will have unintended consequences for the movement of labour. The clause itself is unattractive to someone already in a secure job let alone if the have to move for the new job.

Let alone banks may not lend against such uncertainty to buy a house. If you have a mortgage but need to establish a new one for the new house in the new location, banks may want to wait out the three months to get through the probation period.
With the rental market so tight this going to make it very difficult for someone to a new job in a different location.

[Balance]

So much hypocritical BS and crocodile tears about the new government's policies from the LOSERS (sacked by NZers for being incompetent, liars and spin merchants).

Let's examine the casualties from 6 years of the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal :

So how many deaths and severe sickness have resulted from Labour's shambolic restructuring and mismanagement of the health system?

We know waiting lists for surgery, tests and treatment getting ever longer under Labour kill.

We know that shutting the borders to healthcare workers coming into NZ during and post COVID (until it is too late) kill because of the horrendous shortage of health workers.

But the Ardern & Hipkins government was very very happy to spend billions of dollars on consultants instead of on healthcare providers - so that their bureaucrats & fat cat appointees covered their arses for being incompetent & useless.

Labour : Putting their fat cats and rich consultants ahead of the welfare of healthcare workers and patients.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/OL_28ElaAeXShpe-vBkGpqD-_UE=/1440x756/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/IIZBH54S45F5PPTXSL5D2VCHTA.JPG

[777]

I see the indefensible is being defended I.e. the back track on Smokefree NZ, that National & far as I'm aware ACT had backed previously but NZF get this into the coalition agreement despite not campaigning on it. Why didn't they campaign on it?
Because if voters had known NZF may not have got back into parliament.

The reintroduction of the three month trial period for employers to sack staff without cause will have unintended consequences for the movement of labour. The clause itself is unattractive to someone already in a secure job let alone if the have to move for the new job.

Let alone banks may not lend against such uncertainty to buy a house. If you have a mortgage but need to establish a new one for the new house in the new location, banks may want to wait out the three months to get through the probation period.
With the rental market so tight this going to make it very difficult for someone to a new job in a different location.

Always looking for the negative.

Smokefree NZ would never have worked. Citizens are smarter than idealists and would have got around it somehow. Yoy can grow the stuff, just like weed.

[Daytr]

Always looking for the negative.

Smokefree NZ would never have worked. Citizens are smarter than idealists and would have got around it somehow. Yoy can grow the stuff, just like weed.

There is nothing positive about either of these policy changes.

[nztx]

There is nothing positive about either of these policy changes.


That's okay - for most nothing much positive came out of 6 years of Nanny State Labour & the Loopy Greens in Power ;)

No wonder the majority of Kiwi's were very happy to give them fail marks & out on their backsides last month ;)

If you want to see positive policy change at a huge cost - look no further than Mahuta's 5 Idiots on water thrown through any old how in urgency against wishes of most and the minefield assembled that needs to be disabled ;)

For a Govt to stoop to having to place a minefield around 5 Waters - a hated initiatiove that most did not approve of must surely highlight what a bunch of disconnected incompetent Losers the last mob were ;)

[Balance]

That's okay - for most nothing much positive came out of 6 years of Nanny State Labour & the Loopy Greens in Power ;)

No wonder the majority of Kiwi's were very happy to give them fail marks & out on their backsides last month ;)

If you want to see positive policy change at a huge cost - look no further than Mahuta's 5 Idiots on water thrown through any old how in urgency against wishes of most and the minefield assembled that needs to be disabled ;)

For a Govt to stoop to having to place a minefield around 5 Waters - a hated initiatiove that most did not approve of must surely highlight what a bunch of disconnected incompetent Losers the last mob were ;)

Only negative came out of Hipkins and Ardern in the last 6 years.

And Hipkins is blaming everything except himself and the government - not surprising but that’s good. Means 12 more years at least in Opposition for Labour.

[Logen Ninefingers]

There is nothing positive about either of these policy changes.

Simplistic Lefty mind-set: ‘Ban smoking and nobody will smoke’. Yeah, right. Dope, meth, coke, alcohol all say “hold my beer”.

[Balance]

Simplistic Lefty mind-set: ‘Ban smoking and nobody will smoke’. Yeah, right. Dope, meth, coke, alcohol all say “hold my beer”.

Why didn’t they ban gangs and nobody will join gangs?

Spin and lies - Ardern & Hipkins.

[777]

There is nothing positive about either of these policy changes.

In your opinion.

[dobby41]

Simplistic Lefty mind-set: ‘Ban smoking and nobody will smoke’. Yeah, right. Dope, meth, coke, alcohol all say “hold my beer”.
Righty mind-set - we need the taxes from the smokers so don't try to stop them.

Why didn’t they ban gangs and nobody will join gangs?

Spin and lies - Ardern & Hipkins.


Because they know that wouldn't work!
Makes a lie of Logen's post.

[Balance]

Righty mind-set - we need the taxes from the smokers so don't try to stop them.



Because they know that wouldn't work!
Makes a lie of Logen's post.

From your one source of truth in the most transparent government ever? :t_up:

[Blue Skies]

Always looking for the negative.

Smokefree NZ would never have worked. Citizens are smarter than idealists and would have got around it somehow. Yoy can grow the stuff, just like weed.




Could I ask you to please read the Smokefree 2025 plan & evidence backed research before expressing unfounded comments.

The old tired & specious 'black market & home grown' claims you repeat, also repeated by Luxon, are rehearsed repeatedly by the Tobacco Industry.
(I presume you're not a Tobacco lobbyist despite your comments.)

Studies show smokers describe 'home grown tobacco' as "vile, disgusting & feral". They are not interested in it.
Studies of smokers also show they remain uninterested in illicit i.e. smuggled foreign tobacco due to concern about the risks of dealing with underground suppliers.

Remember even Nicola Willis said Smokefree2025 will result in a loss of $1billion in excise tax to the govt. (But it will add $2.5. billion in Health care costs in future years)

Here's some worthwhile reading sent with the best of intensions if you would like to be more informed,


https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/smokefree-legislation-evidence-based-removing-it-not

[Daytr]

The defence of poor policy by the new Government is to attack the previous.
The previous actions have nothing to do with these poor decisions.

I have commented on some good stuff the coalition is doing, but it's certainly not all good.

[davflaws]

Could I ask you to please read the Smokefree 2025 plan & evidence backed research before expressing unfounded comments.

The old tired & specious 'black market & home grown' claims you repeat, also repeated by Luxon, are rehearsed repeatedly by the Tobacco Industry.
(I presume you're not a Tobacco lobbyist despite your comments.)

Studies show smokers describe 'home grown tobacco' as "vile, disgusting & feral". They are not interested in it.
Studies of smokers also show they remain uninterested in illicit i.e. smuggled foreign tobacco due to concern about the risks of dealing with underground suppliers.

Remember even Nicola Willis said Smokefree2025 will result in a loss of $1billion in excise tax to the govt. (But it will add $2.5. billion in Health care costs in future years)

Here's some worthwhile reading sent with the best of intensions if you would like to be more informed,


https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/smokefree-legislation-evidence-based-removing-it-not
There is a group of posters on this thread who have no interest in truth, objective facts, evidence based policies, or any measure that is good for the bulk of the population.

As far as many of them are concerned, anything that the previous govt did or proposed was bad, and anything the present lot does or proposes is good.

Inviting them to inform themselves is wasting your breath. They don't engage on any rational level - either because they can't, or because their identity is so closely tied to their politics that any threat to their political position is experienced as an attack on their personhood.

[jonu]

There is a group of posters on this thread who have no interest in truth, objective facts, evidence based policies, or any measure that is good for the bulk of the population.

As far as many of them are concerned, anything that the previous govt did or proposed was bad, and anything the present lot does or proposes is good.

Inviting them to inform themselves is wasting your breath. They don't engage on any rational level - either because they can't, or because their identity is so closely tied to their politics that any threat to their political position is experienced as an attack on their personhood.

The truth and the objective facts are that approx 74% of voters decided that the Labour government needed to go. That's right. From over 50% just 3 years prior, Labour's true colours were hung out to dry.

Every indicator I can think of got worse under the virtue signaling pack of cynical pri*ks that made up that Labour government. Sadly they have given unrealistic and false hopes to Maori elites who are now throwing their toys out of the cot. And yet in the heart of Ngapuhi, WTF ORA had the "tooth fairy" of Kaikohe prosecuted for providing services to Maori that they did not. There are no dentists in Dargaville, Hokianga or Kaikohe. So much for Labour delivering to Maori.

Crock of the normal BS we have heard for the last 6 years.

Add to that the trough feeders in Wellington entrenching 5 Waters as much as they can to ensure payouts for when they are sacked is enough to turn your stomach. Sue the instigators for incompetence and send them packing. Hold firm Luxon.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Righty mind-set - we need the taxes from the smokers so don't try to stop them.



Because they know that wouldn't work!
Makes a lie of Logen's post.

Logic fail from dobby.
Labour apparently knew banning something ‘wouldn’t work!’
But on the other hand presumably they think banning something else ‘will work’.
Oh dear.
Maybe they should have ‘banned crime’, or commanded the tide not to come in.
There is no end to the Left wing magical thinking & outright stupidity.

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘Acting PM Winston Peters has accurately called Greens co-leader Marama Davidson a “bigoted, leftie shill” during Question Time today.’

[jonu]

‘Acting PM Winston Peters has accurately called Greens co-leader Marama Davidson a “bigoted, leftie shill” during Question Time today.’

Hmmm, let's fact check Winston.

Davidson a bigot? "Cis white males cause all violence". Tick
Davidson a leftie? Even she would admit that. Tick
Davidson a shill? Well she is paid handsomely to be the Female, Maori co-leader. If she was a bloke or non-Maori she wouldn't be there! TICK!

Conclusion....Winston is spot on! TICK!

[tim23]

The truth and the objective facts are that approx 74% of voters decided that the Labour government needed to go. That's right. From over 50% just 3 years prior, Labour's true colours were hung out to dry.

Every indicator I can think of got worse under the virtue signaling pack of cynical pri*ks that made up that Labour government. Sadly they have given unrealistic and false hopes to Maori elites who are now throwing their toys out of the cot. And yet in the heart of Ngapuhi, WTF ORA had the "tooth fairy" of Kaikohe prosecuted for providing services to Maori that they did not. There are no dentists in Dargaville, Hokianga or Kaikohe. So much for Labour delivering to Maori.

Crock of the normal BS we have heard for the last 6 years.

Add to that the trough feeders in Wellington entrenching 5 Waters as much as they can to ensure payouts for when they are sacked is enough to turn your stomach. Sue the instigators for incompetence and send them packing. Hold firm Luxon.
And about 62% of people didn’t vote National.

[jonu]

And about 62% of people didn’t vote National.

That's exactly the point tim23. We have a Coalition with a new broom. And just in the nick of time. Do you know of a dentist in Western Northland? Population 70%+ Maori. Maybe Ngapuhi will take out a Treaty claim, naming Ardern, Hipkins, Little and Verral as the culprits.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The hysterical rhetoric from Maori over a couple of departmental name changes is now so ridiculous that it is a form of mania. “This government is attacking my whole world” wails Mapi-Clarke, as if the government has banned the speaking Te Reo and started doing actual meaningful and substantive things like returning Lake Taupo to the ownership of all New Zealanders.

[Getty]

Maori smokers are also coming off a much higher base.
Maori women have among the highest rates of lung cancer in the world & of course smoking is damaging to unborn babies during pregnancy & second hand smoke damaging to young children.
.

Many years ago, when India replaced some steam trains with electric, there were deaths from people still climbing on top for a free ride, as they had always done, making contact with the live wires, and being electrocuted.

Signs were erected to dissuade people from climbing on top, but as many were illiterate, the message did not get through.

Bodies were then left where they lay at platforms, and word of mouth got the message through instead.

So if the great unwashed can get the message by what they see, why can't Maori, especially with their claimed close family bonds, and claims of family is everything, in this supposedly developed country?

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tooth-fairy-of-kaikohe-fined-after-low-cost-denture-service-created-smiles-but-broke-health-rules/NT6X53NNNZFCVO5HHPTPINAO7M

Tooth Fairy of Kaikohe fined after low-cost denture service created smiles but broke health rules

WTF ORA gets a mention here & isn't a glowing one :



Wihongi-Matene said she didn’t believe the Ministry of Health had done anything since she was charged to improve the provision of dental services or denture care among the communities in which she once worked.

Te Whatu Ora Health NZ was asked if it had assessed whether Kaikohe and surrounding areas had sufficient affordable dentistry services. It has yet to respond.


What have Little's Brainchild and thereafter another useless Labour Seatwarmers WTF Ora Empire done to assist the folk of Northland ? ;)

Anyone can guess what this useless Empire might have done ;)


If we wait long enough another BS "It's Managing or Happening" excuse borrowed from Little's time might be quiety emitted, but everyone will still know what the real answer is already ;)

[Blue Skies]

Logic fail from dobby.
Labour apparently knew banning something ‘wouldn’t work!’
But on the other hand presumably they think banning something else ‘will work’.
Oh dear.
Maybe they should have ‘banned crime’, or commanded the tide not to come in.
There is no end to the Left wing magical thinking & outright stupidity.



There's a lot more to world leading Smokefree 2025 than a simple ban on the sale of cigarettes.

Did you know research shows almost 73% of smokers want to quit, because 50% of long term smokers will die from smoking related causes.
But less than 5% will succeed in any given year & without a Cessation program that drops to 2-3%.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the world, WHO says it kills more than 5 million people each year.

Smokefree 2025 was also going to reduce the level of nicotine allowed in tobacco, which smokers crave, to a level below the addiction level. Thats such an important component of this legislation.
Outlets were going to be heavily reduced so smokers were not confronted with the option to purchase wherever they went.
And the other component of this was the next generation would never become smokers as even if they got hold of cigarettes they would never become addicted & its only the addiction which keeps smokers handing out $70 for a pack of cigarettes.

As I've said, its unconscionable this govt plans to repeal this legislation, & to fund tax cuts just shows how heartless this govt really is.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5636087/

[Logen Ninefingers]

The Maori separatists are increasingly challenging the whole nation with their inflammatory rhetoric by claiming they never ceded sovereignty….they are basically wanting to tear up the Treaty of Waitangi, and will presumably start some sort of civil war in due course. Very sad!

[Balance]

The Maori separatists are increasingly challenging the whole nation with their inflammatory rhetoric by claiming they never ceded sovereignty….they are basically wanting to tear up the Treaty of Waitangi, and will presumably start some sort of civil war in due course. Very sad!

So be it.

NZ needs a good clean out and 17% taking on the majority has one inevitability.

[Bjauck]

Many years ago, when India replaced some steam trains with electric, there were deaths from people still climbing on top for a free ride, as they had always done, making contact with the live wires, and being electrocuted.

Signs were erected to dissuade people from climbing on top, but as many were illiterate, the message did not get through.

Bodies were then left where they lay at platforms, and word of mouth got the message through instead.

So if the great unwashed can get the message by what they see, why can't Maori, especially with their claimed close family bonds, and claims of family is everything, in this supposedly developed country?
Under the British Raj, famine would have taken care of many if the “great unwashed”. And not to mention the mayhem of partition bequeathed by the British on departure…

So are you saying, let “the unwashed” get the message that smoking is dangerous by allowing the corpses to pile up? Unlike railways though, there is so much more harm from smoking than any benefit. So just remove the harmful product.

[Balance]

Under the British Raj, famine would have taken care of many if the “great unwashed”. And not to mention the mayhem of partition bequeathed by the British on departure…

So are you saying, let “the unwashed” get the message that smoking is dangerous by allowing the corpses to pile up? Unlike railways though, there is so much more harm from smoking than any benefit. So just remove the harmful product.

India's population today is over 1.425 billion vs 340 million on independence.

Don't you worry too much about the 'unwashed' cigarette smokers - they know how to multiply. If it’s not cigarettes, it’s drugs or something else.

[fungus pudding]

Stopping smoking is all about the best way to skin a cat. Banning is not the way to go - unless you want to see the black market thrive, and ram raids increase. Smoking numbers are dropping fast anyway with current actions.
I remember as a kid we could buy cigarettes at the wharf, smuggled in with every ship that arrived - to avoid duties (along with the hot items of the day - pocket size transistor radios, instamatic cameras) Later, as a teenager, we could buy cartons in the pub from the ship crews.

[Bjauck]

India's population today is over 1.425 billion vs 340 million on independence.

Don't worry too much about the 'unwashed' - they know how to multiply.
They just don’t destroy the planet as effectively as the “washed” though. The sperm count in males is falling alarmingly.

[Balance]

They just don’t destroy the planet as effectively as the “washed” though. The sperm count in males is falling alarmingly.

The planet will survive - don't worry too much about it.

Much of the human race may not but that's for another day.

Meanwhile, the 'be kind' society of the mistress of spin Ardern and which had her devotees (especially the Labour shills here) in ecstasy has dissipated into this kind of behavior

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133429001/atrocious-behaviour-charity-shocked-as-people-fight-over-toys-at-christmas-giveaway-event

It was meant to be a positive event: a toy giveaway, organised by a charity hoping to ease the load for families at Christmas. But it ended in pushing and shoving, people fighting over gifts and a woman reportedly climbing over a baby in a pram to reach items. Helping Families founder Kristy Rowe said the event earlier this month left a bitter taste in her mouth. “I’m shocked, and a bit angry and saddened,” said Rowe, whose charity provides people in need with clothing and other items. “What appalled me is the greed and the behaviour of adults. It’s just atrocious.”

Cigarettes and drugs first, children's needs second - legacy of Ardern & Hipkins.

Big job ahead for the new government to turn around the social deterioration out there in NZ.

[Balance]

Stopping smoking is all about the best way to skin a cat. Banning is not the way to go - unless you want to see the black market thrive, and ram raids increase. Smoking numbers are dropping fast anyway with current actions.
I remember as a kid we could buy cigarettes at the wharf, smuggled in with every ship that arrived - to avoid duties (along with the hot items of the day - pocket size transistor radios, instamatic cameras) Later, as a teenager, we could buy cartons in the pub from the ship crews.

There is a huge huge black market in cigarettes from overseas in Auckland amongst the immigrant community which I personally see almost every week without fail. The market spills over into the local market of course as the black market cigarettes are sold at half the price of the domestic ones.

The modus operandi of the operators is very simple and it works a treat with the state and rules of our postal/parcel service.

Thousands of cartons of cigarettes are posted into NZ from Asia, 1 carton by 1 carton, declared as samples etc to various recipients including PO Boxes all over the city. The operators count upon 1 in 2 being intercepted and the rest getting through.

Now here's the interesting part which makes the scheme work a treat:

1. The Post/Parcel Office sends a polite note to the intended recipients of the intercepted cigarettes advising them that excise duties and taxes are payable on the cigarettes.

2. Failure to uplift the cigarettes will result in them being forfeited and destroyed. There is NO other penalty or action!!!!!

3. A carton of 10 pack of cigarettes from certain countries in Asia costs between $30 and $100 vs $350+ in NZ. The ones from Indonesia (stinks to hell to a non-cigarette smoker like me) are less than $20 a carton.

Guess what the operators do? :p

The operators sell the cigarettes by special delivery (door to door) as well as in the Sunday markets.

And we have posters here claiming that the black market for cigarettes is small - from research by the ivory tower cuckooland assessment. Research done by them interviewing smokers and counting cigarette packets in rubbish bins.

I wrote to Customs advising them of the practice and did not even get the courtesy of a reply so why bother? Live and let live.

[Bjauck]

The planet will survive - don't worry too much about it.

Much of the human race may not but that's for another day.

…LOL. My bad. It is the Nat/Act/NZF coalition thread after all…

[Bjauck]

…
Meanwhile, the 'be kind' society of the mistress of spin Ardern and which had her devotees (especially the Labour shills here) in ecstasy has dissipated into this kind of behavior

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133429001/atrocious-behaviour-charity-shocked-as-people-fight-over-toys-at-christmas-giveaway-event

It was meant to be a positive event: a toy giveaway, organised by a charity hoping to ease the load for families at Christmas. But it ended in pushing and shoving, people fighting over gifts and a woman reportedly climbing over a baby in a pram to reach items. Helping Families founder Kristy Rowe said the event earlier this month left a bitter taste in her mouth. “I’m shocked, and a bit angry and saddened,” said Rowe, whose charity provides people in need with clothing and other items. “What appalled me is the greed and the behaviour of adults. It’s just atrocious.”

Cigarettes and drugs first. Children's needs second.
I prefer the Lolly scramble we had over the float of state owned enterprises.

[Blue Skies]

There is a huge huge black market in cigarettes from overseas in Auckland amongst the immigrant community which I personally see almost every week without fail. The market spills over into the local market of course as the black market cigarettes are sold at half the price of the domestic ones.

The modus operandi of the operators is very simple and it works a treat with the state and rules of our postal/parcel service.

Thousands of cartons of cigarettes are posted into NZ from Asia, 1 carton by 1 carton, declared as samples etc to various recipients including PO Boxes all over the city. The operators count upon 1 in 2 being intercepted and the rest getting through.

Now here's the interesting part which makes the scheme work a treat:

1. The Post/Parcel Office sends a polite note to the intended recipients of the intercepted cigarettes advising them that excise duties and taxes are payable on the cigarettes.

2. Failure to uplift the cigarettes will result in them being forfeited and destroyed. There is NO other penalty or action!!!!!

3. A carton of 10 pack of cigarettes from certain countries in Asia costs between $30 and $100 vs $350+ in NZ. The ones from Indonesia (stinks to hell to a non-cigarette smoker like me) are less than $20 a carton.

Guess what the operators do? :p

The operators sell the cigarettes by special delivery (door to door) as well as in the Sunday markets.

And we have posters here claiming that the black market for cigarettes is small - from research by the ivory tower cuckooland assessment. Research done by them interviewing smokers and counting cigarette packets in rubbish bins.

I wrote to Customs advising them of the practice and did not even get the courtesy of a reply so why bother? Live and let live.




Blimmy arguing with you tobacco industry lobbyists is like herding cats, off you go on another tangent.

And talk about victim mentality, -which you guys constantly accuse Maori of, look in the mirror - you're so negative, constantly pull down our solid evidence backed, world leading Smokefree2025 & say it won't work, lets not even give it a chance, (and never stop complaining about how the Labour govt ruined your & everybody else's lives.)

Nonsense, the market for foreign brands of smuggled cigarettes is tiny. Most smuggled foreign brands are rough as guts & taste foul.
And even if a diminishing & tiny percentage of current smokers use them, the next generation of young people are not going to.
Smokefree2025 is mostly about stopping the next generation of young people taking up smoking.

It's widely recognised as world leading Public Health Policy.
Lets give it a chance, you know it just might work, even Nicola Willis has admitted as much,
so why are you so constantly negative about it?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Blimmy arguing with you tobacco industry lobbyists is like herding cats, off you go on another tangent.

And talk about victim mentality, -which you guys constantly accuse Maori of, look in the mirror - you're so negative, constantly pull down our solid evidence backed, world leading Smokefree2025 & say it won't work, lets not even give it a chance, (and never stop complaining about how the Labour govt ruined your & everybody else's lives.)

Nonsense, the market for foreign brands of smuggled cigarettes is tiny. Most smuggled foreign brands are rough as guts & taste foul.
And even if a diminishing & tiny percentage of current smokers use them, the next generation of young people are not going to.
Smokefree2025 is mostly about stopping the next generation of young people taking up smoking.

It's widely recognised as world leading Public Health Policy.
Lets give it a chance, you know it just might work, even Nicola Willis has admitted as much,
so why are you so constantly negative about it?

You really are fixated on this ciggie ban aren't you? As previously mentioned, 'bans' on all manner of illicit substances have not worked....yet you continue the Quixotic 'tiliting at wind mills' argument anyway. Your latest piece of illogical 'thinking' is that young people can be stopped from smoking....yeah, because young people don't smoke marijuana - am I right?
On the subject of marijuana, does anyone know why the Left want to ban smoking while also pushing for the legalising of marijuana (smoking) so that it can be 'regulated and taxed by the government, getting it out of the control of the gangs'?
If anything demonstrates the sheer idiocy of the Left, it is these two contradictory positions on the smoking of two different dried plants.

[Balance]

I prefer the Lolly scramble we had over the float of state owned enterprises.

Disagree - the lolly scramble of billions of dollars paid to consultants (with bugger all results) in the last 6 years beats all lolly scrambles.

[Balance]

Blimmy arguing with you tobacco industry lobbyists is like herding cats, off you go on another tangent.

And talk about victim mentality, -which you guys constantly accuse Maori of, look in the mirror - you're so negative, constantly pull down our solid evidence backed, world leading Smokefree2025 & say it won't work, lets not even give it a chance, (and never stop complaining about how the Labour govt ruined your & everybody else's lives.)

Nonsense, the market for foreign brands of smuggled cigarettes is tiny. Most smuggled foreign brands are rough as guts & taste foul.
And even if a diminishing & tiny percentage of current smokers use them, the next generation of young people are not going to.
Smokefree2025 is mostly about stopping the next generation of young people taking up smoking.

It's widely recognised as world leading Public Health Policy.
Lets give it a chance, you know it just might work, even Nicola Willis has admitted as much,
so why are you so constantly negative about it?

Tobacco industry lobbyists? There is nothing more detestable than cigarettes, cigarette companies, cigarette smokers and anyone associated with the industry. But it is a legal industry and as noted above by LN, we have the Leftists in NZ wanting to make cannabis & marijuana legal even while they shed crocodile tears over cigarette smoking!

So let's put that premise about posters here being tobacco industry lobbyists aside for starters.

The point about smuggled cigarettes is that it is big and growing as the price of cigarettes goes up and up. The growth is currently driven by price - imagine how lucrative and how much bigger it will be when it is driven by lack of supply! And don't make the mistake of thinking that it's only the cheap overseas brands being smuggled - NZ equivalent brands like B&H & Marlboro are also smuggled in.

As for world leading Public Health Policy, we can all remember how Ardern & the government were held up in the world (especially the left woke world) as heralding in a new era of enlightened 'kind & empathetic' government. Did not last long, did it?

All spin and no delivery - that's the hallmark of the Labour government and the smokefree2025 BS is no different.

[Balance]

And don’t forget about the ‘Road to Zero’ & $5,000 zero signs by Labour.

Don’t mention the 100,000 Kiwibuild homes too.

World leading? Kiss my arse.

[nztx]

And don’t forget about the ‘Road to Zero’ & $5,000 zero signs by Labour.

Don’t mention the 100,000 Kiwibuild homes too.

World leading? Kiss my arse.


and the Billion Pine trees planted that Labour signed off on :)

and the World Leading Cyclone Recovery effort, that no Labour Minister was in the seat long enough to get any handle on :)

and the World Leading hole in the Ground called Pike River, where nothing much was achieved aside from another financial hole in the ground alongside, with the architect of that disaster then seconded in to making a World Leading Disaster of the Health system that not even he was going to admit was more a large inoperable shambles, before taking on the pre-retirement dream in the park on Defence out of sight :)

and a World Leading accumulation of multiplying Pot Holes nationwide :)

not forgetting Trev's little tantrum that lead to new gardens & play centre around Parliament gardens,
which must have been so loud that he got sent off to annoy the poor Irish, out of sight ;)

What a World Leading bunch of clueless & useless A-Holes the last mob were ;)

[fungus pudding]

They just don’t destroy the planet as effectively as the “washed” though. The sperm count in males is falling alarmingly.

Why is that alarming? Nature seems to have a way of sorting things out. Gone are the days when 4 or 5 kids, or more was common in a family. The planet is not short of people. Nothing alarming about it.

[nztx]

They want the tax revenue to fund their tax cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDxETyLiBk


Has the Argentine slide into a very painful economic Austerity & untold Argy opportunities coming out of a little Panda's ears all over the place finally sunk in yet ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301025748/nz-politics-live-new-interislander-ferries-in-question-government-will-not-fund-cost-blowout


Finance Minister Nicola Willis says she has declined to provide $1.47 billion to continue Interislander's new Cook Strait ferry plan.


Alternative Cook Strait plan 'could take years to develop', as new ferry project sinks amid rising costs




KiwiRail Chair David McLean said without the extra $1.47 billion, the state-owned company's plan to replace its Cook Strait fleet could not progress.

"An alternative suitable long-term solution could take years to develop," he said.

"Unfortunately, we cannot proceed without further Government funding. We respect the Government’s role as shareholder and funder to make this decision."

The first new ship was meant to be launched in January 2025. Hyundai Mipo Dockyard had already been contracted to build the ships.

Willis said the cost of the groundwork had increased beyond what she thought was possible. She described it as "a massive cost blowout".

When then State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters confirmed the Irex plan in 2020, it was expected to cost under $1 billion.

On Wednesday, Willis said the latest briefing indicated it would cost $3 billion. She said she also had doubts about its "deliverability".

Willis said she had been told Hyundai had not yet started building the ships.


KiwiFail Railroaded .. counting the $ Billions in potential over-runs & extra junket that Labour were planning to spend going forwards ;)

Nothing like cutting the Cloth to the country's means :)

Time to trim the KiwiRail Board down to size yet ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/former-governments-infrastructure-budget-blowouts-criticised-in-auditor-generals-report/XEI2A3UOWNDGRFBAA4ZCNA6S5I/

Former Government’s infrastructure budget blowouts criticised in Auditor-General’s report

(paywallllled)


How's Robbo's Fiscal Hole feeling now with well over $13 B being outed by the Powers that be and now hung on the line to air ? ;)

A spendthrift wasteful bunch of hap hazzard spenders & squanderers weren't they ?

What banks were they going to rob to pay for this lot ? ;)

[dobby41]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301025748/nz-politics-live-new-interislander-ferries-in-question-government-will-not-fund-cost-blowout


Finance Minister Nicola Willis says she has declined to provide $1.47 billion to continue Interislander's new Cook Strait ferry plan.


Alternative Cook Strait plan 'could take years to develop', as new ferry project sinks amid rising costs






KiwiFail Railroaded .. counting the $ Billions in potential over-runs & extra junket that Labour were planning to spend going forwards ;)

Nothing like cutting the Cloth to the country's means :)

Time to trim the KiwiRail Board down to size yet ? ;)

Going to be tough.
National wouldn't fund the Interislander when in power last and it had to wait for Labour to sort things.
When people and goods can't get across the strait they know who to look to - National!

[nztx]

Going to be tough.
National wouldn't fund the Interislander when in power last and it had to wait for Labour to sort things.
When people and goods can't get across the strait they know who to look to - National!


Yeah .. they sorted it well in true Labour style alright .. what an F&*k ^p every Labour Govt produces ;)


East Coast Rail line not much better & so well utilised too .. still laying in tatters - another write off ;)


Is there any large Labour infrastructure project that didn't turn to Sh*t with huge cost over-runs or other excuses for crisis moments .. ? ;)


Robbo must have been smiling so sweetly hoping no-one would twig to there being more Hole than threadbare red Grundy left covering the Country's Fiscal backside ;)

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/former-governments-infrastructure-budget-blowouts-criticised-in-auditor-generals-report/XEI2A3UOWNDGRFBAA4ZCNA6S5I/

Former Government’s infrastructure budget blowouts criticised in Auditor-General’s report

(paywallllled)


How's Robbo's Fiscal Hole feeling now with well over $13 B being outed by the Powers that be and now hung on the line to air ? ;)

A spendthrift wasteful bunch of hap hazzard spenders & squanderers weren't they ?

What banks were they going to rob to pay for this lot ? ;)

Cannot get more damning than this :

"Two of the former Government’s massive infrastructure programmes totalling $15 billion were rushed against the advice of officials leading to chaotic, costly blowouts just months after they were announced.

A little over a year after the projects were announced, the Government had to tip $1.9b in extra funding to keep the projects on track. Some projects, like the Mill Rd expressway, had to be culled entirely after doubling in cost a year after being announced.

Auditor-General John Ryan has today tabled a report into the NZ Upgrade Programme and the Shovel-Ready Projects, often abbreviated to NZUP and SRP. NZUP was originally given $12b and SRP was given $3b. The NZUP funded the likes of the Penlink, Mill Rd, and Ōtaki to North of Levin expressways, as well as the Melling interchange and a number of hospital and school upgrades.

Both projects date back to the first term of the last Government, when Labour was in office with the Greens and NZ First, the latter now being part of the new Government.

He found that ministers received ample warning from officials prior to NZUP projects being announced that some would struggle to be delivered on time and on budget."

And did Hipkins & Robertson learnt anything from the above?

Here's the answer :

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/06/45bn-auckland-tunnels-plan-money-apparently-grows-on-roads/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAxcrGsawAAmq31?format=jpg&name=medium

[Balance]

Why is that alarming? Nature seems to have a way of sorting things out. Gone are the days when 4 or 5 kids, or more was common in a family. The planet is not short of people. Nothing alarming about it.

Short of the right people.

Plenty of beneficiaries, losers & parasites bred by Labour.

[westerly]

Short of the right people.

Plenty of beneficiaries, losers & parasites bred by Labour.

Too many opinionated parrots to.

westerly

[Balance]

Too many opinionated parrots to.

westerly

Yawn - for all your adoration and devotion to Clueless Cindy, she quit on you lot to save her reputation.

She is now enjoying life overseas (remember she wanted to spend more time with her precious daughter and her partner? Guess not, huh?) while you losers suck on the lemons she left for you dumbos.

[Blue Skies]

You really are fixated on this ciggie ban aren't you? As previously mentioned, 'bans' on all manner of illicit substances have not worked....yet you continue the Quixotic 'tiliting at wind mills' argument anyway. Your latest piece of illogical 'thinking' is that young people can be stopped from smoking....yeah, because young people don't smoke marijuana - am I right?
On the subject of marijuana, does anyone know why the Left want to ban smoking while also pushing for the legalising of marijuana (smoking) so that it can be 'regulated and taxed by the government, getting it out of the control of the gangs'?
If anything demonstrates the sheer idiocy of the Left, it is these two contradictory positions on the smoking of two different dried plants.



The rationale for decriminalising marijuana which under the Misuse of Drugs Act is a crime & carries a sentence of up to $500 fine &/or 3 months in jail, is the harm from a conviction carrying a possible jail sentence in terms of overseas visas/travel, employment etc etc is out of all proportion to the harm caused by alcohol & tobacco.

Although marijuana is not without risk, esp with young people and psychosis, cigarette smokers typically smoke between 10 - 30 cigarettes per day, whereas marijuana users typically smoke 1 or 2 joints per week.
There doesn't seem to be the same link to heart disease which is one of the biggest killers of smokers.

It does seem a bit ridiculous that alcohol which causes so much harm, & tobacco which kills half its users, both of which are chemically addictive, are available 24/7, yet the use or possession of marijuana ( which does not contain nicotine so is not chemically addictive) under present laws still carries a possible jail sentence.

If it was to be decriminalised you would expect some strong guard rails around its use, - minimum age, driving, use of machinery, etc.

[nztx]

The rationale for decriminalising marijuana which under the Misuse of Drugs Act is a crime & carries a sentence of up to $500 fine &/or 3 months in jail, is the harm from a conviction carrying a possible jail sentence in terms of overseas visas/travel, employment etc etc is out of all proportion to the harm caused by alcohol & tobacco.

Although marijuana is not without risk, esp with young people and mental health, cigarette smokers typically smoke between 10 - 30 cigarettes per day, whereas marijuana users typically smoke 1 or 2 joints per week.
There doesn't seem to be the same link to heart disease which is one of the biggest killers of smokers.

It does seem a bit ridiculous that alcohol which causes so much harm, & tobacco which kills half its users, both of which are chemically addictive, are available 24/7, yet the use or possession of marijuana ( which does not contain nicotine so is not chemically addictive) under present laws still carries a possible jail sentence.


and if it was legalised then where would the usage of 1 or 2 joints a week be now .. or too difficult / doesn't fit the argument ? ;)

[Balance]

and if it was legalised then where would the usage of 1 or 2 joints a week be now .. or too difficult / doesn't fit the argument ? ;)

Usual garbage from BS.

First legalise and then, when it becomes a problem like cigarettes, restrict its use and then, ban it.

Cigarettes would not be legal today if it was known back then before it became fashionable of the harm it does to people. Instead of learning, the left wants to repeat the same mistake with cannabis.

Leftist woke BS.

[Balance]

Labour government had no money to upgrade polytech’s facilities ($20m) but had hundreds of millions of dollars to pay consultants and centralisation costs to achieve nothing but go backwards.

You cannot make this stuff up.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504331/nz-risks-becoming-laughing-stock-over-te-pukenga-change

[Bjauck]

Why is that alarming? Nature seems to have a way of sorting things out. Gone are the days when 4 or 5 kids, or more was common in a family. The planet is not short of people. Nothing alarming about it.
Nature does indeed sort things out. When laissez-faire policies have made the planet inhospitable for mankind maybe the reptiles will rise again. However I am picking a hastened end from survival wars that will give rise to a trump or putin who will end up diverting a meteor to collide with the Earth.

[Balance]

Nature does indeed sort things out. When laissez-faire policies have made the planet inhospitable for mankind maybe the reptiles will rise again. However I am picking a hastened end from survival wars that will give rise to a trump or putin who will end up diverting a meteor to collide with the Earth.

More like WW3 soon enough.

What jolly times ahead for the unwashed, parasites, beneficiaries and losers - they would not even know that the world has come to an end. Ignorance is bliss!

[fungus pudding]

Nature does indeed sort things out. When laissez-faire policies have made the planet inhospitable for mankind maybe the reptiles will rise again. However I am picking a hastened end from survival wars that will give rise to a trump or putin who will end up diverting a meteor to collide with the Earth.



Are you saying we won't get out of this life alive? Well pickle me! Who'd a thunk that!

[Bjauck]

More like WW3 soon enough.

What jolly times ahead for the unwashed, parasites, beneficiaries and losers - they would not even know that the world has come to an end. Ignorance is bliss!What an odious post.

[Balance]

Negative GDP for the September quarter - great job screwing up the economy by Ardern, Hipkins and Robertson.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/did-the-economy-shrink-or-grow-new-gdp-numbers-today/VIPKVULJP5DGDJSEY5NDXQ3HMI/

[Balance]

Negative GDP for the September quarter - great job screwing up the economy by Ardern, Hipkins and Robertson.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/did-the-economy-shrink-or-grow-new-gdp-numbers-today/VIPKVULJP5DGDJSEY5NDXQ3HMI/

And remember how Labour was going to cut immigration when it came into power?

Well, a super record of over 120,000 net migrants came into NZ in Labour's last year of government.

And that's because everything was collapsing (health, transport, education, services etc) due to the gross mismanagement of the economy & Human Resources by Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal.

Behavoiur equivalent to a hopelessly drunk or learner driver on the road with no idea of how to drive.

Excerpt :

"New Zealand’s economy slumped in the September quarter.

The economy shrank 0.3 per cent compared to the June quarter and GDP per capita fell 0.9 per cent, Stats NZ said today. Subtract surging migration from the picture and the underlying state of the economy would be very soft indeed."

[Panda-NZ-]

The opposition seems to be barking at every passing car.

Only two questions are needed, rather than 600:


1) Where is the $25/wk that was promised and why do Kiwis have to wait 7 months.

2) Will these increase mortgage interest rates, at a time when inflation globally is going down.

[Blue Skies]

Looks like Chris Luxon is - 'all hat and no cattle' as they say in Texas!
Talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. ...all hot air.

Pre election, "this is going to be a govt for infrastructure..infrastructure will truely be at the heart of building a strong and prosperous future...critical to getting nz back on track... blah, blah blah",

Yet within days of becoming govt, completely cancel another world class project, and a critical, long term, resilient piece of infrastructure, the new inter-islander ferry.
To replace with what?
second hand, non rail capable, stop gap fillers ?

Instead of a govt of doing & infrastructure, - we've got a govt of undoing & tinkering.

Nicola Willis's image of crossing Cook Strait in a roaring gale with 6 meter swells in the equivalent of an old second hand corolla instead of a Ferrari is not appealing.

Inevitably all big projects have cost blow outs, but NZ inc desperately needs a reliable rail, freight and passenger connection between its 2 main islands.
And 80% of the cost increase is around the land side, rail & road connections, so its money being spent in NZ on NZ infrastructure & in order to increase NZ productivity.

Imagine if Labour had cancelled Transmission Gully because of the cost blowouts.
Or the Channel tunnel connecting England & Europe had been cancelled because of cost blow outs.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/lloyd-burr-opinion-christopher-luxon-s-ferry-snub-shows-he-s-all-talk-on-infrastructure.html

[dln]

And remember how Labour was going to cut immigration when it came into power?

Well, a super record of over 120,000 net migrants came into NZ in Labour's last year of government.

And that's because everything was collapsing (health, transport, education, services etc) due to the gross mismanagement of the economy & Human Resources by Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal.

Behavoiur equivalent to a hopelessly drunk or learner driver on the road with no idea of how to drive.

Excerpt :

"New Zealand’s economy slumped in the September quarter.

The economy shrank 0.3 per cent compared to the June quarter and GDP per capita fell 0.9 per cent, Stats NZ said today. Subtract surging migration from the picture and the underlying state of the economy would be very soft indeed."

Wrong thread dipsh1t.

[Balance]

Wrong thread dipsh1t.

Kiss my arse, dln.

Kiss my arse twice.

[nztx]

The opposition seems to be barking at every passing car.

Only two questions are needed, rather than 600:


1) Where is the $25/wk that was promised and why do Kiwis have to wait 7 months.

2) Will these increase mortgage interest rates, at a time when inflation globally is going down.


Argentina not better than here after all ? ;)

Even the Opposition might have answered that one correctly ;)

[dln]

Kiss my arse, dln.

Kiss my arse twice.

If you can learn to put your posts in the right thread, I still won't be kissing your arse, but I might give you a pat on the head. ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/did-the-economy-shrink-or-grow-new-gdp-numbers-today/VIPKVULJP5DGDJSEY5NDXQ3HMI/

Shock as NZ Gross Domestic Product falls 0.3 per cent


New Zealand’s economy slumped in the September quarter.

The economy shrank 0.3 per cent compared to the June quarter and GDP per capita fell 0.9 per cent, Stats NZ said today.

The data is weaker than economists’ consensus forecasts.

A sluggish manufacturing sector influenced the downturn, which happened despite some record-setting recent net migration.


Why the shock ? .. even Robbo knew the numbers were going down the toilet & seemed happy knowing the carnage would be lifted off his lap ;)

[nztx]

If you can learn to put your posts in the right thread, I still won't be kissing your arse, but I might give you a pat on the head. ;)


Who made you the Forum Camp Commandant around here ? ;)

[Getty]

Yet within days of becoming govt, completely cancel another world class project, and a critical, long term, resilient piece of infrastructure, the new inter-islander ferry.
To replace with what?
second hand, non rail capable, stop gap fillers ?

Instead of a govt of doing & infrastructure, - we've got a govt of undoing & tinkering.

Nicola Willis's image of crossing Cook Strait in a roaring gale with 6 meter swells in the equivalent of an old second hand corolla instead of a Ferrari is not appealing.

Inevitably all big projects have cost blow outs, but NZ inc desperately needs a reliable rail, freight and passenger connection between its 2 main islands.
And 80% of the cost increase is around the land side, rail & road connections, so its money being spent in NZ on NZ infrastructure & in order to increase NZ productivity.


As it turns out, your analogy between a Corolla and a Ferrari is the common sense required into the Inter Island debacle.

Only a few years ago Kiwi Rail themselves seriously considered scrapping rail capacity on their ferries, and transhipping goods from rail to trucks to drive onto the ferries to cross the strait.

To then come out with the just scrapped ferries with a 300% increase in rail capacity was a quantum step to Ferraris.

A weak justification to appease the Lefties to allocate funding was to say this capacity was to enable more exports
Really?
So export goods could be shifted from the North Island to be exported through Lyttleton or Dunedin, and South Island goods be railed to Napier for export?
Julie Ann Genter may fall for that one, but not any old commo wharfy.

So what is more common in NZ?

Corollas or Ferraris?

It was the ferries that were breaking down, not the Linkspans and onshore infrastructure.

[dln]

Who made you the Forum Camp Commandant around here ? ;)

There is separate topic threads on a forum for a reason.
If everybody just posted whatever wherever, it would be pretty useless.

I'm sure everybody else also gets sick of trawling through the off topic sh1te to read the thread you have clicked on.

Or do you think thread topics are just there as window dressing too?

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is permanent - I'm simply offering Balance the opportunity show that he is simply ignorant, and that he can learn a new thing.
:)