Was this the start of a US Presidential campaign

[winner69]

Tomorrow he’ll be introducing himself as ‘President Trump’

[Bjauck]

He has been doing that for the last 3 years. These slip ups. But listening to MSM you would not have known that. Now that the Democrats want someone else, they have given the MSM free reign to attack Biden. Something they were not allowed to do up till the debate.
Is CNN part of your “MSM”?

From 8th February this year:
Biden’s verbal slip-ups over dead European leaders put the focus on his most potent political weakness: His age
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/joe-biden-age/index.html

Is the Washington Post part of your “MSM”?
The 10 worst things Joe Biden did in 2022
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/29/worst-things-biden-did-2022/

[blackcap]

Is CNN part of your “MSM”?

From 8th February this year:
Biden’s verbal slip-ups over dead European leaders put the focus on his most potent political weakness: His age
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/joe-biden-age/index.html

Is the Washington Post part of your “MSM”?
The 10 worst things Joe Biden did in 2022
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/29/worst-things-biden-did-2022/

There are part of my MSM. There have been incidences they have not been able to ignore, but generally they have been running interference.

A colleague of mine thought Biden was sharp as a tack a month ago. He was shocked at the debate performance. I was not. I was actually surprised at how well Biden did in the debate. Its a matter of who you listen to. Not the MSM liars thats for sure.

[Bjauck]

There are part of my MSM. There have been incidences they have not been able to ignore, but generally they have been running interference.

A colleague of mine thought Biden was sharp as a tack a month ago. He was shocked at the debate performance. I was not. I was actually surprised at how well Biden did in the debate. Its a matter of who you listen to. Not the MSM liars thats for sure. My media consumption is probably 95% what you may term as MSM. It is true that some MSM outlets like Fox and the Daily Mail do not have full coverage. However there is a range of MSM outlets. I was not surprised with Biden’s performance. Even before his election, his age, recall and acuity were discussed as a potential downside.

[Panda-NZ-]

My media consumption is probably 95% what you may term as MSM. It is true that some MSM outlets like Fox and the Daily Mail do not have full coverage. However there is a range of MSM outlets. I was not surprised with Biden’s performance. Even before his election, his age, recall and acuity were discussed as a potential downside.

Yeah 2020 would have been easily winnable for the republicans without Trump.

Biden has been saved again as trump is highly motivating for democrats to turn out.
No need for an obama or JFK figure to rally the troops.

[Getty]

He's Biden his time...

[jonu]

He's Biden his time...

Not if Nancy 2 face Pelosi has her way. Now she's saying she'll back Biden in whatever decision he makes....when he's already made a decision to keep going. Then again...he probably doesn't remember, so good ol Nance will stay on the White House Christmas card list

[Getty]

He's Biden his time...

Some wish he'd just bite his tongue!

[iceman]

Surely it is time for the Dedmocrats to stop this elder abuse and remove this very sick man from their ticket. It is sad to watch.

[kiwikeith]

Surely it is time for the Dedmocrats to stop this elder abuse and remove this very sick man from their ticket. It is sad to watch.

He should not just be stood down from the election, he should be stood down for the current presidency and VP Kamala Harris should step up into the role in the interim. It is elder abuse and undignified for Biden to be humiliated day after day.

[davflaws]

He should not just be stood down from the election, he should be stood down for the current presidency and VP Kamala Harris should step up into the role in the interim. It is elder abuse and undignified for Biden to be humiliated day after day.

The Putin/Zelensky gaffe was the last straw for me. I no longer believe he can win, although as I have said before, a Biden administration would be miles better than the alternative in every respect I can think of.

It would be a relief to have him step down from the presidency and allow KH to run as the incumbent.

[ynot]

In you opinion.
In reality the Dems are rotten to the core but then your impaired vision will not show you that.

[Bjauck]

In you opinion.
In reality the Dems are rotten to the core but then your impaired vision will not show you that.
Perhaps the Republican Party want the next violent assault on the Capitol to be successful, for the opposition Congressmen to be violated and imprisoned, and for a Dictator Trump to be installed? The US constitution and Justice disrespected. Trump-style.

[Panda-NZ-]

Perhaps the Republican Party want the next violent assault on the Capitol to be successful, for the opposition Congressmen to be violated and imprisoned, and for a Dictator Trump to be installed? The US constitution and Justice disrespected. Trump-style.

https://www.project2025.org/policy/

[Daytr]

In you opinion.
In reality the Dems are rotten to the core but then your impaired vision will not show you that.

And the Republicans won't stand up to Trump.
Trump the biggest threat to the US republic since the Civil War.
Who's the rotten ones?

[Daytr]

Not if Nancy 2 face Pelosi has her way. Now she's saying she'll back Biden in whatever decision he makes....when he's already made a decision to keep going. Then again...he probably doesn't remember, so good ol Nance will stay on the White House Christmas card list

You really do live in fantasy land.
At least it's not Hilary or Jacinda this time who is the woman with a Jonu target on her back.

Nancy Pelosi makes shock move against Biden and is 'very concerned' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/nancy-pelosi-makes-shock-move-against-biden-and-is-very-concerned/ar-BB1pPSkm?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=fa4ba3506e334f77a25b420ed52b2e28&ei=19)

All this criticism of the Democrats by most posters and yet it's not them that have appointed Trump.
The Republicans are full of rednecks who would sell their grandmother if it got them power.
Think Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Linday Graham, Rand Paul, Mark Rubio just to name a few...

[blackcap]

You really do live in fantasy land.
At least it's not Hilary or Jacinda this time who is the woman with a Jonu target on her back.

Nancy Pelosi makes shock move against Biden and is 'very concerned' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/nancy-pelosi-makes-shock-move-against-biden-and-is-very-concerned/ar-BB1pPSkm?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=fa4ba3506e334f77a25b420ed52b2e28&ei=19)

All this criticism of the Democrats by most posters and yet it's not them that have appointed Trump.
The Republicans are full of rednecks who would sell their grandmother if it got them power.
Think Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Linday Graham, Rand Paul, Mark Rubio just to name a few...

Mitch McConnel and Lindsay Graham are weasels and traitors of the highest order. Not genuine Republicans. They are RINO's (Republicans in Name Only).

[davflaws]

In you opinion.
In reality the Dems are rotten to the core but then your impaired vision will not show you that.

I am genuinely interested in what ways you believe a Trump administration would be better than a Democratic one.
Please enlighten me.

[ynot]

I am genuinely interested in what ways you believe a Trump administration would be better than a Democratic one.
Please enlighten me.

Alas dav I would be wasting my time on you and vise versa, as you and I are at opposing ends of the spectrum regards political viewpoints.

From my perspective, I think you paddle your own canoe in this life, what you put should be relative to what you get back. No kumbayas for me. I will leave that to you.

[blackcap]

The Putin/Zelensky gaffe was the last straw for me. I no longer believe he can win, although as I have said before, a Biden administration would be miles better than the alternative in every respect I can think of.

It would be a relief to have him step down from the presidency and allow KH to run as the incumbent.

You do realise that "Heels up" Harris, has far worse ratings than Biden. IE she would lose in an even greater landslide. Have you seen her word salads? Biden is actually more coherent and makes more sense than Kamala.

[Panda-NZ-]

You do realise that "Heels up" Harris, has far worse ratings than Biden. IE she would lose in an even greater landslide. Have you seen her word salads? Biden is actually more coherent and makes more sense than Kamala.

She was a prosecutor, so in some ways is a specialist to take on trump.

[jonu]

Didn't know this about the US electoral college apportion system. It's taken from the census, which doesn't distinguish between citizens and illegals. Elon Musk spelling it out.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BQkJ38ETCWM

Favours the Democrats hugely. No wonder Biden hasn't acted on the Southern border....even if he remembers where it is.

[tim23]

Alas dav I would be wasting my time on you and vise versa, as you and I are at opposing ends of the spectrum regards political viewpoints.

From my perspective, I think you paddle your own canoe in this life, what you put should be relative to what you get back. No kumbayas for me. I will leave that to you.

I suggest you answer the question.

[Baa_Baa]

I suggest you answer the question.

Why bother Tim? It's woefully obvious that both parties have serious problems for governing the USA, Trump we know is unstable ... I'm unsure what words can describe such a person that haven't already been said, let alone Biden who everyone can see is past his use by date, the guy should be checking into a dementia clinic, not running for President.

This is (was) the most powerful, influential country in the whole world, and the best they can put up for President who has almost unlimited powers, are an old-aged convicted criminal (with all sorts of other despicable characteristics) and, an even older-aged obviously geriatric with mental health issues that is in denial.

No wonder the BRICS are laughing their heads off and the UN is freaking out!

[ynot]

Why bother Tim? It's woefully obvious that both parties have serious problems for governing the USA, Trump we know is unstable ... I'm unsure what words can describe such a person that haven't already been said, let alone Biden who everyone can see is past his use by date, the guy should be checking into a dementia clinic, not running for President.

This is (was) the most powerful, influential country in the whole world, and the best they can put up for President who has almost unlimited powers, are an old-aged convicted criminal (with all sorts of other despicable characteristics) and, an even older-aged obviously geriatric with mental health issues that is in denial.

No wonder the BRICS are laughing their heads off and the UN is freaking out!

Irrespective of which president is preferable, the people will vote for their preferred party. Considering the democrat circus performance to date, Trump will win if the pole is legitimate.

[Bjauck]

:D
Irrespective of which president is preferable, the people will vote for their preferred party. Considering the democrat circus performance to date, Trump will win if the pole is legitimate. With two uninspiring candidates, it will depend on the respective strength of Americans’ Party affiliations.

So many seem to be internet medical experts these days. It is in advisable to give internet dementia diagnoses for many reasons.


Donald Trump, Joe Biden and dementia: Why not to diagnose from a distance

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia

[jonu]

:D With two uninspiring candidates, it will depend on the respective strength of Americans’ Party affiliations.

So many seem to be internet medical experts these days. It is in advisable to give internet dementia diagnoses for many reasons.


Donald Trump, Joe Biden and dementia: Why not to diagnose from a distance

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia

Oh good grief BJauck. Biden's deterioration has been there for all to see. It played out in front of us. Even though the left wing MSM ran cover for him for years and now have been left exposed by their own trickery. I guess their rationale was his administration would do the heavy lifting. Even if it has been, they can't keep him from undermining their efforts with his constant gaffes and befuddlement.

Whatever you think of him, Trump is sharp as a tack...Biden...not so much.

Oh and BTW, when does it become elder abuse to be subjecting Biden to public humiliation?

[ynot]

Oh and BTW, when does it become elder abuse to be subjecting Biden to public humiliation?

He has been exhibiting signs of dementia since 2021. This is how democrats demonstrate care and compassion.

[Bjauck]

Oh good grief BJauck. Biden's deterioration has been there for all to see. It played out in front of us. Even though the left wing MSM ran cover for him for years and now have been left exposed by their own trickery. I guess their rationale was his administration would do the heavy lifting. Even if it has been, they can't keep him from undermining their efforts with his constant gaffes and befuddlement.

Whatever you think of him, Trump is sharp as a tack...Biden...not so much.

Oh and BTW, when does it become elder abuse to be subjecting Biden to public humiliation? I never realised that you were medically trained on dementia, other disorders and age-related effects on cognition. Is deterioration always specifically Dementia, doctor? Do you know better than Alzheimer’s Societies?

Trump may well be sharper than Biden. However that sharpness is put to appalling use.


It stigmatises people living with dementia

When an older politician is accused of having dementia, it’s often done to smear their character, question their policies, or seek to disqualify them from holding office. The tone tends to be negative, demeaning and often hateful – particularly on social media platforms.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia

[Bjauck]

He has been exhibiting signs of dementia since 2021. This is how democrats demonstrate care and compassion. You are another doctor who has examined Biden?

It stigmatises people living with dementia

When an older politician is accused of having dementia, it’s often done to smear their character, question their policies, or seek to disqualify them from holding office. The tone tends to be negative, demeaning and often hateful – particularly on social media platforms.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia

[ynot]

You are another doctor who has examined Biden?

It stigmatises people living with dementia

When an older politician is accused of having dementia, it’s often done to smear their character, question their policies, or seek to disqualify them from holding office. The tone tends to be negative, demeaning and often hateful – particularly on social media platforms.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia

Mate, sit down, take a few deep breaths, re-watch Joes latest performances and ask yourself again, Is Biden's head ok ? Its not rocket science.

[Daytr]

Didn't know this about the US electoral college apportion system. It's taken from the census, which doesn't distinguish between citizens and illegals. Elon Musk spelling it out.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BQkJ38ETCWM

Favours the Democrats hugely. No wonder Biden hasn't acted on the Southern border....even if he remembers where it is.

Musk likes shooting from the hip, it cost him $40Bln to buy Twitter at one stage.
Just some fact based evidence.
The census may impact the Democrats by net 1 seat .

Which is far less than the electoral college system favours the Republicans.

https://www.thirdway.org/memo/is-illegal-immigration-really-a-democratic-plot-to-sway-congressional-apportionment

[Getty]

Breaking news.
Trump shot and wounded at a political rally!!!

[Getty]

Breaking news.
Trump shot and wounded at a political rally!!!
I say this will be a significant turn in the election campaign.

Maybe no more outside rallies and other appearances, unless behind bullet proof glass.

May have to borrow the Pope mobile!

[Getty]

Considering Trump was not the serving President, Interesting to note how regular Army uniformed personnel armed with full size weapons were already on site, on top of the expected Secret Service staff.

[Bjauck]

Mate, sit down, take a few deep breaths, re-watch Joes latest performances and ask yourself again, Is Biden's head ok ? Its not rocket science.
Of course he has issues. However that was not my point. However perhaps I was expecting too much.

[Getty]

I venture to suggest this will be the winning point in Trumps campaign.

People will rise against any attempt to subvert the democratic process.

They will admire Trumps defiant reaction as he rose from the shot, fist pumping, before lead away shouting fight, fight!

[ynot]

Of course he has issues. However that was not my point. However perhaps I was expecting too much.

Well what was your point. That it it is NOT a problem to have a president who is mentally not up to the task. This has been evident since at least 2021 !

[Daytr]

Musk likes shooting from the hip, it cost him $40Bln to buy Twitter at one stage.
Just some fact based evidence.
The census may impact the Democrats by net 1 seat .

Which is far less than the electoral college system favours the Republicans.

https://www.thirdway.org/memo/is-illegal-immigration-really-a-democratic-plot-to-sway-congressional-apportionment

According to this article the Democrats need to get 52% of the popular vote under the electoral college system.
Strange Elon didn't mention that...

[Bjauck]

I venture to suggest this will be the winning point in Trumps campaign.

People will rise against any attempt to subvert the democratic process.

They will admire Trumps defiant reaction as he rose from the shot, fist pumping, before lead away shouting fight, fight!
Trump is OK. He wants to loosen gun controls.
Trump vows to undo Biden gun restrictions if re-elected

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-vows-undo-biden-gun-restrictions-if-re-elected-2024-02-10/
Trump rushed off stage at rally as bangs heard


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1d31jeyzlo

It is absolutely shocking for this to happen during an election campaign. A sign of toxicity.

[Daytr]

Breaking news.
Trump shot and wounded at a political rally!!!

Was he wounded?

Amazing that no one behind him was hit?
I would think twice about being in those seats.

[Getty]

Was he wounded?

Amazing that no one behind him was hit?
I would think twice about being in those seats.

His right ear was clipped by the shot, and bleeding.

At that close, at head level, he could have very easily been killed.

I also am amazed the bullet did not appear to hit anyone else as it traveled on its trajectory.

Someone, assumedly the gunman, has been shot dead for this attempted assassination, on site.
UPDATE, maybe not the gunman, but an innocent person.
SECOND UPDATE.
Both gunman and innocent attendee dead.

Biden had made comments recently about Trump being "in the crosshairs"
Not good form!

[Bjauck]

His right ear was clipped by the shot, and bleeding.

At that close, at head level, he could have very easily been killed.

I also am amazed the bullet did not appear to hit anyone else as it traveled on its trajectory.

Someone, assumedly the gunman, has been shot dead for this attempted assassination, on site.

Biden had made comments recently about Trump being "in the crosshairs"
Not good form!
It was a disgusting scene. I hope everybody at the rally is ok. I think Trump will be the next President now.

[ynot]

It was a disgusting scene. I hope everybody at the rally is ok. I think Trump will be the next President now.

He was going to be the next president regardless.

[Bjauck]

He was going to be the next president regardless.
Audience member killed.
https://www.usatoday.com/

[Getty]

As Trump was surrounded by SS personnel, then prepared to be led off stage, l heard someone l assume to be Trump say Hang on, let me get my shoes.
He then dropped down out of sight, presumably to pick up and put his shoes on.

So, does he speak from behind the lecturn with his shoes off?

Does he feel the heat?

Normally these people try to look taller, and more authoritive.

[Getty]

Biden's piss weak statements in his press conference, at least 90 minutes after the event, when he had plenty of time to be briefed and compose himself, were another nail in his political coffin.

[Getty]

BBC have interviewed a gent who saw the gunman climb onto a roof with a rifle, and brought it to the attention of Police and SS, and yet even while Trump was speaking, no action was taken.

[Getty]

After dodging a bullet, with luck like that, once released from hospital Trump will be heading straight to one of his Casinos to spin the big wheel!

[Daytr]

It was a disgusting scene. I hope everybody at the rally is ok. I think Trump will be the next President now.

I think you either pro Trump or not especially after his only term as President, so not sure it will sway too many.

Trump says it's incredible that this could happen in our country. This from the guy who incited the armed Capitol Riots where people were killed.

[Bjauck]

I think you either pro Trump or not especially after his only term as President, so not sure it will sway too many.

Trump says it's incredible that this could happen in our country. This from the guy who incited the armed Capitol Riots where people were killed. A lot of the toxicity in American politics is owning to Trump. However There could be a sympathy effect for Trump as a result of the attempted assassination. Whereas there was little sympathy after his Covid.

I think it could have happened with Reagan. Reagan’s share of the popular vote increased for his second term.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-10-02/when-reagan-shot-country-rallied-he-hadnt-spent-months-downplaying-assassins

[Daytr]

Oh good grief BJauck. Biden's deterioration has been there for all to see. It played out in front of us. Even though the left wing MSM ran cover for him for years and now have been left exposed by their own trickery. I guess their rationale was his administration would do the heavy lifting. Even if it has been, they can't keep him from undermining their efforts with his constant gaffes and befuddlement.

Whatever you think of him, Trump is sharp as a tack...Biden...not so much.

Oh and BTW, when does it become elder abuse to be subjecting Biden to public humiliation?

And yet Trump said they should investigate disinfectant injections as a means to combat Covid, amoung many other ridiculous comments during his presidency. Sharp as a tack huh? He says anything and everything that pops into his mouth and is quite adept and contradicting himself even in the sane sentence.

Biden's first term has gone well.
Stock markets at record highs, inflation coming down and Government spending reduced.

It's clear Biden isn't up for a 2nd term but there has been no issues due to health in his first.

[Daytr]

A lot of the toxicity in American politics is owning to Trump. However There could be a sympathy effect for Trump as a result of the attempted assassination. Whereas there was little sympathy after his Covid.

I think it could have happened with Reagan. Reagan’s share of the popular vote increased for his second term.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-10-02/when-reagan-shot-country-rallied-he-hadnt-spent-months-downplaying-assassins

Yep could be, and some people it might add to their resolve and be lamenting that the assassin missed.

[Getty]

What happened to Trumps wig?
Did it get trampled in the melee?

Shares in hair gel manufacturers will plummet on Monday.

[winner69]

TvNZ foresaw this

Bad form though

https://x.com/planet_mc83783/status/1812284775337750900?t=kB8yzDiDZZQt8al_L_IbhA&s=19

[Getty]

As reviews are carried out on security afforded to Trump, you may reflect this will be done by the same nation whose nuclear powered aircraft carriers, armed with nuclear weapons, collide into merchant ships.

[jonu]

As reviews are carried out on security afforded to Trump, you may reflect this will be done by the same nation whose nuclear powered aircraft carriers, armed with nuclear weapons, collide into merchant ships.

Let me correct you Getty. If you have the nuclear arms and your vessel is the size of a pacific island, the other guy was in the wrong and better have great third party insurance,

[Getty]

Let me correct you Getty. If you have the nuclear arms and your vessel is the size of a pacific island, the other guy was in the wrong and better have great third party insurance,

Ahoy Skipper.

Be that as it may, perhaps you should have been the legal counsel for at least 4 US Navy sailors who have been punished for such collisions.

[kiwikeith]

Yep could be, and some people it might add to their resolve and be lamenting that the assassin missed.


"be lamenting that the assasin missed" Seriously? Everyone is entitled to their political views but being dissappointed that someone has not been murdered? If that is true it goes to show that there are some sick bastards out there. Sometimes supporters take politics more seriously than the politicians themselves. There used to be a lot of people who did not like the National politician Rob "Piggy" Muldoon. But one of his better mates in Parliament was Trevor De Cleene who was a labour MP. When Muldoon had a farewell function to retire from politics it was De Cleene who delivered his farewell speech.

[Getty]

"National politician Rob "Piggy" Muldoon. But one of his better mates in Parliament was Trevor De Cleene who was a labour MP. When Muldoon had a farewell function to retire from politics it was De Cleene who delivered his farewell speech.

Trevor wasn't as clean as his surname suggested.

He enjoyed inviting the likes of Annette King, former Labour Minister
of Health around to his home, and greeting them in the nude...

Maybe he wished to discuss ED!

[ynot]

"be lamenting that the assasin missed" Seriously? Everyone is entitled to their political views but being dissappointed that someone has not been murdered? If that is true it goes to show that there are some sick bastards out there. Sometimes supporters take politics more seriously than the politicians themselves. There used to be a lot of people who did not like the National politician Rob "Piggy" Muldoon. But one of his better mates in Parliament was Trevor De Cleene who was a labour MP. When Muldoon had a farewell function to retire from politics it was De Cleene who delivered his farewell speech.

Just another lefty showing his true colours here Keith. Leftys like to make out they are all caring, until you do not agree with them. Then you see what they are really made of.

[Getty]

Just another lefty showing his true colours here Keith. Leftys like to make out they are all caring, until you do not agree with them. Then you see what they are really made of.

Yeah, very disappointing from a poster who tries to position himself on the moral high ground, on much lesser matters.

[Getty]

Much speculation on how Thomas Mathew Crooks got himself and his weapon onto the rooftop.

My guess is he had a "legitimate" reason to be in the area, such as an employee in the premises or nearby.

He may have concealed his weapon in the area well in advance, prior to climbing on the roof, to circumvent security precautions/ cordons on the day.

[ynot]

Yeah, very disappointing from a poster who tries to position himself on the moral high ground, on much lesser matters.

That why he is on ignore for a number of posters here.

[Bjauck]

"be lamenting that the assasin missed" Seriously? Everyone is entitled to their political views but being dissappointed that someone has not been murdered? If that is true it goes to show that there are some sick bastards out there. Sometimes supporters take politics more seriously than the politicians themselves. There used to be a lot of people who did not like the National politician Rob "Piggy" Muldoon. But one of his better mates in Parliament was Trevor De Cleene who was a labour MP. When Muldoon had a farewell function to retire from politics it was De Cleene who delivered his farewell speech. I agree. Absolutely no place for political violence.

There also can be respect and sometimes friendship across the political spectrum. Another example is Greenie James Shaw and Nat Todd Muller.

[Balance]

Who knows what was the motive of the 20 year old who tried to kill Trump. He could be in the same mould as the ones who attempted to kill Reagan and Ford. Guess his motive will become clear now the investigation is in full swing - plus how the hell the shooter was able to get that close to one of the most heavily guarded person in the world.

I don’t have a problem with someone who feels that Trump is a dictator like Hitler in the making opining that it’s a pity the bullet missed him, just like it was a pity that Hitler was not assassinated during WW2. A candidate who fornicated while his wife was in hospital after giving birth but supports the Ten Commandments being plastered in schools in the name of introducing back Christian values - what kind of sick fxxk does that?

[Daytr]

I make no apologies for what I said.
Do I wish there weren't people with guns shooting each other in the US,
Of course I do.
Ironically Trump & the Republicans don't, otherwise they would do something about it.

A world without Trump is a better place imo. This is the man that incited insurrection and people were killed because of it, let alone the threat to democracy.
That's what they call treason.

Then there is the threat to the Ukraine if he becomes President, Putin must be rubbing his hands together. Will Putin stop there? I have friends in Europe that are very worried that perhaps Poland is next and also Scandinavia. Hey but Trump admires Putin for his strength....

I can have respect for people who vote either way, left or right, as I have done so myself and I have friends right across the political spectrum. But I have no respect for Trump whatsoever.

The man lies a minute, and anyone that supports that doesn't deserve respect either. But that's my opinion.

[tim23]

As Trump was surrounded by SS personnel, then prepared to be led off stage, l heard someone l assume to be Trump say Hang on, let me get my shoes.
He then dropped down out of sight, presumably to pick up and put his shoes on.

So, does he speak from behind the lecturn with his shoes off?

Does he feel the heat?

Normally these people try to look taller, and more authoritive.

Apparently David Seymour flies with his shoes off.

[Getty]

Apparently David Seymour flies with his shoes off.
So do l.

Feet can swell while at altitude.

Soon to be President Trump must have felt he was flying high.

[Bjauck]

I make no apologies for what I said.
Do I wish there weren't people with guns shooting each other in the US,
Of course I do.
Ironically Trump & the Republicans don't, otherwise they would do something about it.

A world without Trump is a better place imo. This is the man that incited insurrection and people were killed because of it, let alone the threat to democracy.
That's what they call treason.

Then there is the threat to the Ukraine if he becomes President, Putin must be rubbing his hands together. Will Putin stop there? I have friends in Europe that are very worried that perhaps Poland is next and also Scandinavia. Hey but Trump admires Putin for his strength....

I can have respect for people who vote either way, left or right, as I have done so myself and I have friends right across the political spectrum. But I have no respect for Trump whatsoever.

The man lies a minute, and anyone that supports that doesn't deserve respect either. But that's my opinion.There is not much of Trump’s policies or attitude that I support or like. However not to be upset whether an assassin’s bullet reached its political target would be indifference to political violence. There would then be no logic behind opposing Trump’s incitement to insurrection - brutal force being the modus operandi in common. Putin bumps off his opponents too.

The public should vote for the better candidate. Not for the one left alive.

[Daytr]

There is not much of Trump’s policies or attitude that I support or like. However not to be upset whether an assassin’s bullet reached its political target would be indifference to political violence. There would then be no logic behind opposing Trump’s incitement to insurrection - brutal force being the modus operandi in common. Putin bumps off his opponents too.

The public should vote for the better candidate. Not for the one left alive.

There is difference between indifference and advocating for.

I agree with your last statement, however unfortunately democracy could fail the world in this case. Trump has openly said he will go after his opponents.

He has been given immunity by his heavily backed Supreme Court. He has shown no respect for institutions let alone the law or democracy. In short Trump is very dangerous.

[kiwikeith]

Much speculation on how Thomas Mathew Crooks got himself and his weapon onto the rooftop.

My guess is he had a "legitimate" reason to be in the area, such as an employee in the premises or nearby.

He may have concealed his weapon in the area well in advance, prior to climbing on the roof, to circumvent security precautions/ cordons on the day.

It seems a major failing by the security services. I would have thought they would have considered all possible vantage points for a have a go sniper before the event. Gun control would not necessarily have prevented this. A good hunting rifle is accurate to one inch at 100 yards.

[ynot]

There is not much of Trump’s policies or attitude that I support or like. However not to be upset whether an assassin’s bullet reached its political target would be indifference to political violence. There would then be no logic behind opposing Trump’s incitement to insurrection - brutal force being the modus operandi in common. Putin bumps off his opponents too.

The public should vote for the better candidate. Not for the one left alive.

If only it were that simple.
On occasion you may have to think a little more strategically. Like the lesser evil.

[kiwikeith]

A world without Trump is a better place imo.

There must be a better/kinder way for you to voice your disagreement with the views of a politician thousands of miles away. I cannot help but wonder what you hope for rapists, murderers, paedophiles and arsonists. Cant you just say the world would be better off if Trump is not re-elected in your opinion.

[Baa_Baa]

It seems a major failing by the security services. I would have thought they would have considered all possible vantage points for a have a go sniper before the event. Gun control would not necessarily have prevented this. A good hunting rifle is accurate to one inch at 100 yards.

Not saying X.com is reliable, but there are numerous accounts of people calling out to security that there was a man on the roof of that building not so far away.

The response accounts and photos suggest that the security snipers did train their weapons on him, but didn't do anything, until the shooting started.

You could hear from the footage that the shooter had a semi-automatic, unloading an initial barrage of fire at Trump, fortunately for him only one connected as a glancing blow. A centimetre or two to the right and Trump would be dead, no question.

Very shortly afterwards there was a lull in gunfire, then the sound track had another series of gunfire, presumably this was taking out the sniper?

Results of the investigation will be interesting. Trump is a very lucky man, he literally dodged the bullet, apart from losing a bit of his ear.

Some go even further, suggesting all sorts of things, like this is the beginning of the civil war in the USA. I think the beginning was when Trump incited violence on Capitol Hill. This is a nation divided, polarised division. It won't end well.

People forget that Trump won 74,222,958 votes, or 46.8 percent of the votes cast (albeit he says it was rigged against him). That’s more votes than any other presidential candidate has ever won, with the exception of Biden, in the same election.

74 million people loved this guy in 2020, maybe even more do now that Biden is an obvious cot case and people want to kill Trump, their hero! 74 million people, maybe more now, think about it.

The USA politics are a pretty farked up place, it only takes a few patriotic nutters willing to lose their own lives for their cause to turn this into turmoil not seen since the US Civil War.

I don't imagine Trump will be quite so willing to grace the hustings going forward, nor Biden, the race to POTUS has become very dangerous.

[Bjauck]

There is difference between indifference and advocating for.

I agree with your last statement, however unfortunately democracy could fail the world in this case. Trump has openly said he will go after his opponents.

He has been given immunity by his heavily backed Supreme Court. He has shown no respect for institutions let alone the law or democracy. In short Trump is very dangerous.
Sure there is a difference. However indifference to a political assassination, no matter how strongly you may disagree with the candidates platform, is indeed an indifference to the rule of law and the democratic process. No matter how it is cut and diced.

[davflaws]

Well what was your point. That it it is NOT a problem to have a president who is mentally not up to the task. This has been evident since at least 2021 !

And here we go again. Biden is a doddery old man. But even if (as you claim) he has shown a cognitive decline since 2021, I believe his administration has been outstanding, and since you are unwilling (or more likely unable) to say specifically how a Trump administration would do better, I continue to believe that a doddery old man with a long record of public service and a stellar performance in the job is a better bet than a proven liar, cheat, fraudster and felon who performed abysmally.

[davflaws]

From where I sit, political violence is unacceptable from any quarter. I felt quite sick when I heard that Trump had been shot, though the world will certainly be a better place if he is not elected and is ultimately held accountable for his crimes.

[Daytr]

Sure there is a difference. However indifference to a political assassination, no matter how strongly you may disagree with the candidates platform, is indeed an indifference to the rule of law and the democratic process. No matter how it is cut and diced.

So if Hitler had been assassinated in 1933 would that mean the same indifference?
And I'm not saying Trump is Hitler, but his assassination in 1933 would have been against the rule of law as well as Hitler was legally appointed even if it was with undue pressure etc.

I don't just disagree with Trump or dislike Trump or that its because he is a serial liar, as I said before he is dangerous, and giving a man like that basically unfettered power, without threat of prosecution, is lunacy.

[blackcap]

There must be a better/kinder way for you to voice your disagreement with the views of a politician thousands of miles away. I cannot help but wonder what you hope for rapists, murderers, paedophiles and arsonists. Cant you just say the world would be better off if Trump is not re-elected in your opinion.

Totally agree. It's like saying the world without Daytr is a better place. Just my opinion. Sick sentiments really.

[Bjauck]

So if Hitler had been assassinated in 1933 would that mean the same indifference?
And I'm not saying Trump is Hitler, but his assassination in 1933 would have been against the rule of law as well as Hitler was legally appointed even if it was with undue pressure etc.

I don't just disagree with Trump or dislike Trump or that its because he is a serial liar, as I said before he is dangerous, and giving a man like that basically unfettered power, without threat of prosecution, is lunacy. Others also have strong feelings against the politicians you, or I, may support. With respect to Hitler hindsight of course is 20:20. So at the time my attitude would have been the same.

In any case. There were many forces in play in post the WW1 defeat in Weimar Germany. Who’s to say after an assassination, the decline of Weimar Germany would have been quicker with other villains to take Hitler’s place. Maybe their 1000 year Reich would have defeated the RAF and still be around.

Both the rule of law and the protection of the constitutional process are important. Dropping standards or sinking to Trump’s level, would in effect be giving licence to a further round of deterioration in a race to a failed democracy.

[ynot]

Not saying X.com is reliable, but there are numerous accounts of people calling out to security that there was a man on the roof of that building not so far away.

The response accounts and photos suggest that the security snipers did train their weapons on him, but didn't do anything, until the shooting started.

You could hear from the footage that the shooter had a semi-automatic, unloading an initial barrage of fire at Trump, fortunately for him only one connected as a glancing blow. A centimetre or two to the right and Trump would be dead, no question.

Very shortly afterwards there was a lull in gunfire, then the sound track had another series of gunfire, presumably this was taking out the sniper?

Results of the investigation will be interesting. Trump is a very lucky man, he literally dodged the bullet, apart from losing a bit of his ear.

Some go even further, suggesting all sorts of things, like this is the beginning of the civil war in the USA. I think the beginning was when Trump incited violence on Capitol Hill. This is a nation divided, polarised division. It won't end well.

People forget that Trump won 74,222,958 votes, or 46.8 percent of the votes cast (albeit he says it was rigged against him). That’s more votes than any other presidential candidate has ever won, with the exception of Biden, in the same election.

74 million people loved this guy in 2020, maybe even more do now that Biden is an obvious cot case and people want to kill Trump, their hero! 74 million people, maybe more now, think about it.

The USA politics are a pretty farked up place, it only takes a few patriotic nutters willing to lose their own lives for their cause to turn this into turmoil not seen since the US Civil War.

I don't imagine Trump will be quite so willing to grace the hustings going forward, nor Biden, the race to POTUS has become very dangerous.

Not so sure about that. Nothing new about random nut cases in the USA. It has been a fact of life for decades. What is a concern is the current president stating "it is time to put Trump in a bullseye".

[Daytr]

Others also have strong feelings against the politicians you, or I, may support. With respect to Hitler hindsight of course is 20:20. So at the time my attitude would have been the same.

In any case. There were many forces in play in post the WW1 defeat in Weimar Germany. Who’s to say after an assassination, the decline of Weimar Germany would have been quicker with other villains to take Hitler’s place. Maybe their 1000 year Reich would have defeated the RAF and still be around.

Both the rule of law and the protection of the constitutional process are important. Dropping standards or sinking to Trump’s level, would in effect be giving licence to a further round of deterioration in a race to a failed democracy.

We have hindsight, as we saw the dangers of Trump when he doesn't get what he wants at the Capitol Riots and the pressure he put on various officials around the country to overturn the election. If the US didn't have a corrupt Supreme Court things might be different. But it's OK to have paid for holidays and not declare them etc. As I said, these people flout the law as there are no consequences.

So we have been warned.
Just like there was plenty of warning about Hitler in 1933.

As I say, I'm not advocating for it, but I wouldn't shed a tear either.

[Daytr]

Totally agree. It's like saying the world without Daytr is a better place. Just my opinion. Sick sentiments really.

Just like that eh, as I'm a threat to democracy. 🙄

[Bjauck]

Totally agree. It's like saying the world without Daytr is a better place. Just my opinion. Sick sentiments really.We are discussing the presidential candidates, not attacking posters.

[blackcap]

That photo is one of the best, most memorable, ever taken; an election winner. It's right up there with the iconic one showing the planting of the American flag on Iwo Jima.
Trump shows he is heroic, courageous and defiant as he stands out from those there to protect him. The American flag against the blue sky; just perfect.

They won't stop him now, as Megyn Kelly said, "I will walk over broken glass to cast my vote".

[Bjauck]

That photo is one of the best, most memorable, ever taken; an election winner. It's right up there with the iconic one showing the planting of the American flag on Iwo Jima.
Trump shows he is heroic, courageous and defiant as he stands out from those there to protect him. The American flag against the blue sky; just perfect.

They won't stop him now, as Megyn Kelly said, "I will walk over broken glass to cast my vote".
Absolutely no comparison with Iwo Jima can be made to Trump. Trump can say what he wants with a vast array of personnel tasked with protecting him. They put their lives on the line so that he has the ability to make his political speeches. With so many guns in America, fomented hatred, and their loose gun control, 100% protection is difficult to achieve. The heroes here are those tasked with trying to protect Trump. Those who used their bodies as a shield for him. Trump is a man-baby. He is so very far removed from those soldiers raising the US Standard on Iwo Jima.

Trump just shouted “Fight!” He wants the hostility to continue. The American people have seen this so should vote with eyes wide open. It is up to them what type of America succeeds.

[blackcap]

Absolutely no comparison with Iwo Jima can be made to Trump. Trump can say what he wants with a vast array of personnel tasked with protecting him. They put their lives on the line so that he has the ability to make his political speeches. With so many guns in America, fomented hatred, and their loose gun control, 100% protection is difficult to achieve. The heroes here are those tasked with trying to protect Trump. Those who used their bodies as a shield for him. Trump is a man-baby.

Trump just shouted “Fight!” He wants the hostility to continue. The American people have seen this so should vote with eyes wide open. It is up to them what type of America succeeds.

So think hard on that this November.

When Biden faces pressure — from a press conference, from a presidential debate, from the calls of party officials to prove he’s healthy enough in mind and body to stay in the Oval Office another four years — he gets confused, petty, angry, confused, wandering, confused.

When Trump faces pressure — the ultimate pressure; the one where a secret enemy shoots bullets at your head and tries to blow you away?

He rises from the muddle of security officials who rushed to shield his body from the bullets of a would-be assassin, raises a clenched fist, and mouths to a shocked crowd, “fight, fight, fight.”

That type of character can’t be faked.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jul/14/donald-trumps-finest-moment-fight-fight-fight/

[kiwikeith]

Just like that eh, as I'm a threat to democracy. 

Daytr, you are missing the point. The point is you don't need to terminate people who have different views to you. You can say NZ would be a better place without gangs - but that is not implying that all existing gang members should be rounded up and sent to the gas chamber. Hopefully they can lead normal law abiding, hard working family lives rather leading a gang life with all the illegal activities it entails.

You dont like Trump, you dont agree with his views but you dont need to imply, that in your view, we are all better off if he is dead.

[Balance]

So think hard on that this November.

When Biden faces pressure — from a press conference, from a presidential debate, from the calls of party officials to prove he’s healthy enough in mind and body to stay in the Oval Office another four years — he gets confused, petty, angry, confused, wandering, confused.

When Trump faces pressure — the ultimate pressure; the one where a secret enemy shoots bullets at your head and tries to blow you away?

He rises from the muddle of security officials who rushed to shield his body from the bullets of a would-be assassin, raises a clenched fist, and mouths to a shocked crowd, “fight, fight, fight.”

That type of character can’t be faked.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jul/14/donald-trumps-finest-moment-fight-fight-fight/

He knew that the shooter was already dead and the Secret Service agents were shielding him in any case. Trump lies in everything - no heroism.

And who was he urging the crowd to fight against? Turned out to be a disturbed 20 year old kid!

And now, we find out that the shooter is a 20 year old kid who was bullied incessantly in school. Sort of character who could have taken the AR weapon (gun rights supported by Trump) to commit atrocities in a school but he decided to do one better - shoot the Fornicating liar. And he was within 1 inch of succeeding.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350342219/live-picture-trump-shooter-bullied-outcast-emerges

[Daytr]

Daytr, you are missing the point. The point is you don't need to terminate people who have different views to you. You can say NZ would be a better place without gangs - but that is not implying that all existing gang members should be rounded up and sent to the gas chamber. Hopefully they can lead normal law abiding, hard working family lives rather leading a gang life with all the illegal activities it entails.

You dont like Trump, you dont agree with his views but you dont need to imply, that in your view, we are all better off if he is dead.

As I have repeatedly said I'm not advocating for it which you are implying I just wouldn't be upset if it happened.

Also it's not his views, it's that he is a threat to democracy. America has gone to war on several occasions for the same reason.

[kiwikeith]

As I have repeatedly said I'm not advocating for it which you are implying I just wouldn't be upset if it happened.

Also it's not his views, it's that he is a threat to democracy. America has gone to war on several occasions for the same reason.

And assassinating political figures is not a threat to democracy?

[ynot]

And assassinating political figures is not a threat to democracy?

You are wasting your time on this individual Keith. He as been effected by woke indoctrination.

[Balance]

And assassinating political figures is not a threat to democracy?

It is if it is carried out by one opponent against another or the others.

Not in this case - it is in similar vein to the attempts on Reagan and Ford. Disturbed individuals, not assassins. In fact, the kid in this case was a Republican!

And US democracy was never threatened when Lincoln and the two Kennedys were killed/assassinated.

Democracy is threatened however when you have a wannabe dictator who lies incessantly, and who believes and behaves like he is above the law.

Democracy is threatened when a mob egged on by the wannabe dictator attempts to lynch elected representatives.

And the wannabe dictator also happens to be a lying fornicator. .

[Daytr]

And assassinating political figures is not a threat to democracy?

I'm not advocating for the assassination of anyone.

Whereas Trump was advocating for insurrection and the illegal overturn of the election result.

Balance and I agree on something, a rarity but actually not the first time.

[Balance]

More on Trump’s ASSASSIN : scary!

Crooks rejected from the high school rifle team

Crooks, from Bethel Park in Pennsylvania, was a registered Republican, US media reports.

The 20-year-old was a member of the 2022 graduating class at Bethel Park High School, the school district confirmed.

He tried out for his high school’s rifle team, but he was rejected for being a “terrible” shot, the New York Postreports.

“He tried out … and was such a comically bad shot he was unable to make the team and left after the first day,” former student Jameson Murphy told the publication.

A second student claimed Crooks was a “terrible shot” and said that thing was “kind of concerning”.

“You know, obviously, we’re using guns in a school setting so you need to be very careful in that regard,” he told the publication.

“He made some crass jokes that weren’t appropriate when there are firearms in the school setting.”

[Balance]

What did the Secret Service agent yelled when the shots rang out?

“Donald, duck!”

[Bjauck]

You are wasting your time on this individual Keith. He as been effected by woke indoctrination.
This has Nothing to do with being woke unless you use “woke” with respect to anything you disagree with.

In fact many “woke” people take a different stance to Daytr on this point. The political spectrum is broad.

[Daytr]

This has Nothing to do with being woke unless you use “woke” with respect to anything you disagree with.

In fact many “woke” people take an opposite stance to Daytr on this point. The political spectrum is broad.

Yes I thought the same.

[Daytr]

What did the Secret Service agent yelled when the shots rang out?

“Donald, duck!”

And Donald replied, "where?". 🤣

[Bjauck]

In tragedy, you get a glimpse of the quality of character of some. It is not Trump but the man in the Crowd, a former firefighter, and a volunteer firefighter, who was killed while shielding his family from the assassin.

[fungus pudding]

In tragedy, you get a glimpse of the quality of character of some. It is not Trump but the man in the Crowd, a former firefighter, and a volunteer firefighter, who was killed while shielding his family from the assassin.

The speed of sound means the bullet would have arrived before he could hear the shot - so do you really believe he could see a speeding bullet (to be able to jump in front of it)?

[Baa_Baa]

The speed of sound means the bullet would have arrived before he could hear the shot - so do you really believe he could see a speeding bullet (to be able to jump in front of it)?

There were many shots fired, have you seen the footage?

[Getty]

The speed of sound means the bullet would have arrived before he could hear the shot - so do you really believe he could see a speeding bullet (to be able to jump in front of it)?
He would have heard the first bullet that missed him & went on to hit a bystander, by the time the 2nd or 3rd shot hit him.

Amendment, answered from Trumps perspective, not the bystanders.

[Balance]

There were many shots fired, have you seen the footage?

I hear 3 shots before the SS snipers unleashed hell on the shooter. The 3 shots went into the crowd at the back of Trump - the bullets would have easily found targets sadly. The audience were packed behind him.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0liBpm2hEAU?si=5URN_MVkm8StDouV

[Bjauck]

The speed of sound means the bullet would have arrived before he could hear the shot - so do you really believe he could see a speeding bullet (to be able to jump in front of it)?
There was a salvo. His occupational training for crises possibly kicked in.
Man killed during Trump shooting dived on family to protect them

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv2grvznd4jo

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-15/corey-comperatore-killed-during-trump-rally-shooting/104097448

You can see in the videos that after the first shot, some people were really quick to respond.

Forty-three seconds after the first shot was fired, a Secret Service agent said the shooter was down.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/14/politics/what-happened-trump-assassination-attempt/index.html

[Bjauck]

Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi said Sunday that a staffer who made an inflammatory post about the assassination attempt of Donald Trump is “no longer in (his) employment.”
A post on Facebook associated with the staffer’s account suggested the gunman needed shooting lessons “so you don’t miss next time.”
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html

[Balance]

Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi said Sunday that a staffer who made an inflammatory post about the assassination attempt of Donald Trump is “no longer in (his) employment.”
A post on Facebook associated with the staffer’s account suggested the gunman needed shooting lessons “so you don’t miss next time.”
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html

A hopelessly divided country in decline = US. To be expected when the best they can produce as candidates is an old man vs a con man.

[ynot]

A hopelessly divided country in decline = US. To be expected when the best they can produce as candidates is an old man vs a con man.

Just from the cost perspective alone, what percentage of potential "quality presidential candidates" could afford the cost to run. Very few.

[dobby41]

Just from the cost perspective alone, what percentage of potential "quality presidential candidates" could afford the cost to run. Very few.

They don't pay themselves - they get supporters (rich ones) to do that.

[dobby41]

Just from the cost perspective alone, what percentage of potential "quality presidential candidates" could afford the cost to run. Very few.

They don't pay themselves - they get supporters (rich ones) to do that.

[Bjauck]

They don't pay themselves - they get supporters (rich ones) to do that.
So maybe the Rich Americans actually have the candidates they want and are prepared to pay for. The American dream comes at a price.

[ynot]

They don't pay themselves - they get supporters (rich ones) to do that.

Yes, I understand that. I was just responding to the point Balance made, "Are these candidates the best America can produce"

[Getty]

Witness the grit and fortitude of former and probable future President Trump.

Despite nearly being shot dead, instead of going into shock there and then, and subsequently being too traumatised to continue, and needing a month off work, what did he do?

He rose, even had the presence of mind to put his shoes back on, delayed being whisked off stage by the SS, and raised his fist in defiance, and continued to do so as he was escorted to his van.

Tonight he is attending a Republican convention.

How would you have coped?

[Baa_Baa]

Witness the grit and fortitude of former and probable future President Trump.

Despite nearly being shot dead, instead of going into shock there and then, and subsequently being too traumatised to continue, and needing a month off work, what did he do?

He rose, even had the presence of mind to put his shoes back on, delayed being whisked off stage by the SS, and raised his fist in defiance, and continued to do so as he was escorted to his van.

Tonight he is attending a Republican convention.

How would you have coped?

Interesting that the MSM have picked up on what the X.com punters were saying very shortly after the assassination attempt, that people had seen the shooter on the roof of the building close by (there are numerous pictures of him), and, pictures of the Police snipers focused on the assassin, but strangely they didn't take him out until the shooting started.

It doesn't add up, something isn't right here. You reckon the FBI will get to the bottom of it?

[Getty]

Interesting that the MSM have picked up on what the X.com punters were saying very shortly after the assassination attempt, that people had seen the shooter on the roof of the building close by (there are numerous pictures of him), and, pictures of the Police snipers focused on the assassin, but strangely they didn't take him out until the shooting started.

It doesn't add up, something isn't right here. You reckon the FBI will get to the bottom of it?

I have not seen any photos or coverage that has been aired today, so my comments are limited to yesterday's extensive coverage on American television.

It appeared the gunman had the advantage of being on a roof that sloped away from the stage that Trump was on, as well as the position that the 2 Police snipers were on.
More importantly, there was a 2 foot high Parapet at the leading edge of the building, where the gunman could lay out of sight of the snipers, until he heard Trump start speaking.
Despite snipers probably being radioed of the risk, once some of the public had alerted ground based Police of the threat, the gunman would have been in position obscured to the snipers view.

Even if he had just raised his head above the parapet, but not shown his weapon, the sniper would not necessarily have grounds to shoot, knowing his weapon was capable of killing with a single shot, and not being able to get a disabling body shot in.
Only when the gunman rose with his weapon in sight, and started firing would the sniper be justified in taking him out, unless otherwise authorised.
Imagine the furore if it turned out the gunman only had a toy gun, or no weapon at all, thanks to a malicious report.
The sniper is not authorised to take a potshot at anyone he feels like.

[Baa_Baa]

I have not seen any photos or coverage that has been aired today, so my comments are limited to yesterday's extensive coverage on American television.

It appeared the gunman had the advantage of being on a roof that sloped away from the stage that Trump was on, as well as the position that the 2 Police snipers were on.
More importantly, there was a 2 foot high Parapet at the leading edge of the building, where the gunman could lay out of sight of the snipers, until he heard Trump start speaking.
Despite snipers probably being radioed of the risk, once some of the public had alerted ground based Police of the threat, the gunman would have been in position obscured to the snipers view.

Even if he had just raised his head above the parapet, but not shown his weapon, the sniper would not necessarily have grounds to shoot, knowing his weapon was capable of killing with a single shot, and not being able to get a disabling body shot in.
Only when the gunman rose with his weapon in sight, and started firing would the sniper be justified in taking him out, unless otherwise authorised.
Imagine the furore if it turned out the gunman only had a toy gun, or no weapon at all, thanks to a malicious report.
The sniper is not authorised to take a potshot at anyone he feels like.

Plug into the real news, it's flooded with images, sightings, videos etc. I think you might be overthinking this without having seen anything concerning yourself. The Police snipers are there to protect Trump, there was a person lying down with a rifle on the roof of a building only a few hundred feet away, and they knew he was there!

There are also numerous 'ex-snipers', including one shown on TV1 news tonight, that are saying that there is absolutely no way this assassin in normal circumstances wouldn't have been found, and killed, -before- he started shooting, unless their instructions were to not kill him.

Anyway, we'll see how this develops. It just looks implausible that the assassin got into the position he did, and managed to fire a few shots, before being killed.

[Panda-NZ-]

I have not seen any photos or coverage that has been aired today, so my comments are limited to yesterday's extensive coverage on American television.

Police kill innocent black man on roof.

Police kill innocent young man on roof, son of blonde middle class white soccer mom.

Not sure which would be worse for the police, probably the latter even today.

[jonu]

Plug into the real news, it's flooded with images, sightings, videos etc. I think you might be overthinking this without having seen anything concerning yourself. The Police snipers are there to protect Trump, there was a person lying down with a rifle on the roof of a building only a few hundred feet away, and they knew he was there!

There are also numerous 'ex-snipers', including one shown on TV1 news tonight, that are saying that there is absolutely no way this assassin in normal circumstances wouldn't have been found, and killed, -before- he started shooting, unless their instructions were to not kill him.

Anyway, we'll see how this develops. It just looks implausible that the assassin got into the position he did, and managed to fire a few shots, before being killed.

I had wondered whether there might have been confusion as to the assassin being secret service personnel. The local police on the ground who were notified by the public of him being there may have thought so.

[Getty]

Police kill innocent black man on roof.

Police kill innocent young man on roof, son of blonde middle class white soccer mom.

Not sure which would be worse for the police, probably the latter even today.

Exactly.

Police have no right to kill on allegations or perceptions alone.

Even when they have more than that, witness the riots and outrage that ensues.

[Baa_Baa]

I had wondered whether there might have been confusion as to the assassin being secret service personnel. The local police on the ground who were notified by the public of him being there may have thought so.

Hadn't thought of that, but the photo's are clearly of a person dressed in civvies, long hair, lying down on the roof with a rifle that is not a sniper rifle. This is just one of them:
15185
People literally saw this guy walk over to the building, scale a ladder onto the roof, get into the prone shooter position. Like 3 or so minutes before the shooting.

Other pictures show the Secret Service (Police) with their uniforms, and real sniper rifles, apparently pointing towards the assassin. But they didn't kill him until after the first shots were fired.

It's not passing the sniff test.

[Baa_Baa]

Exactly.

Police have no right to kill on allegations or perceptions alone.

Even when they have more than that, witness the riots and outrage that ensues.

That's right, those Secret Service (Police) snipers ONLY KILL on orders. The orders were not given, even when there was clear and present danger observable by the public and the police. Why?

[Baa_Baa]

This is what people are asking, you won't find answers on MSM.

15186

[Getty]

Hadn't thought of that, but the photo's are clearly of a person dressed in civvies, long hair, lying down on the roof with a rifle that is not a sniper rifle. This is just one of them:
15185
People literally saw this guy walk over to the building, scale a ladder onto the roof, get into the prone shooter position. Like 3 or so minutes before the shooting.

Other pictures show the Secret Service (Police) with their uniforms, and real sniper rifles, apparently pointing towards the assassin. But they didn't kill him until after the first shots were fired.

It's not passing the sniff test.
Better that photos like that one come out retrospectively than never, but l'm sure that had the authorities had that view at the time, Trump would not have been allowed to take the stage, or if he had just gone up on it, be bundled off like he was, prior to any shots being fired.
It's possible Trump was given a code word to duck under the lecturn, but didn't hear it, or ignored it, prior to the SS arriving on stage.

[Baa_Baa]

Better that photos like that one come out retrospectively than never, but l'm sure that had the authorities had that view at the time, Trump would not have been allowed to take the stage, or if he had just gone up on it, be bundled off like he was, prior to any shots being fired.
It's possible Trump was given a code word to duck under the lecturn, but didn't hear it, or ignored it, prior to the SS arriving on stage.

No need to make excuses for them Getty, the Secret Service Police 'appear' to have seriously screwed up here, but appearances can be deceiving as this is nothing like a bona fide professional protection squad -complete with their own snipers. The real questions are 'why'. Why was a civvy who was observed get into the position they did, why were they allowed to continue to setup for a shooting, why were the public and Police snipers aware of it but why weren't they given orders to take out the threat? a lot of why's.

[Getty]

I think the biggest omission was no helicopter or more likely nowadays, drone coverage over the event.

No reliance on the public, the gunman would have stuck out like dogs balls.

Those evil Republicans cut funding?

Apparently they put up a bill in Congress to deny some security funding of the Democrats, but l will put a disclaimer with that, as l only heard it on talk back radio.

[Baa_Baa]

I think the biggest omission was no helicopter or more likely nowadays, drone coverage over the event.

No reliance on the public, the gunman would have stuck out like dogs balls.

Those evil Republicans cut funding?

Apparently they put up a bill in Congress to deny some security funding of the Democrats, but l will put a disclaimer with that, as l only heard it on talk back radio.

Diversion. Get up with the play and comment on that. You won't find any answers in MSM, well not for a few days after it becomes obvious and undeniable.

[Getty]

Jack Ruby won't figure in the enquiry, but Jack Sh1t will.

[Panda-NZ-]

Apparently they put up a bill in Congress to deny some security funding of the Democrats, but l will put a disclaimer with that, as l only heard it on talk back radio.

Repubs are technologically illiterate and their senators are in an even worse state than Biden (though, Dems are not far behind).

[Panda-NZ-]

Come to think of it.. what can the secret service do against a home made drone armed with a gun.

Obviously not spray bullets into the crowd.

[Bjauck]

Come to think of it.. what can the secret service do against a home made drone armed with a gun. Trump is confirmed as the Republican candidate.

The suspected 20 year old gunman Thomas Crooks was a registered Republican and a lone wolf apparently. So that makes protecting a Republican Party candidate even more difficult. 2/3 of his age group are Democrat supporters, so I guess his age makes him more unusual in the Republican Party.

Being America, there will be the usual conspiracy theories.”Deep state” involvement etc. However what about incompetence and inability to make the candidates (or audience) 100% safe in gun-toting America.

[Panda-NZ-]

The suspected 20 year old gunman Thomas Crooks was a registered Republican and a lone wolf apparently. So that makes protecting a Republican Party candidate even more difficult. 2/3 of his age group are Democrat supporters, so I guess his age makes him more unusual in the Republican Party.


Though he is a white male (one with greviances obviously) and young people are more diverse than the population.

[Bjauck]

Though he is a white male (one with greviances obviously) and young people are more diverse than the population. The gun was his father’s.

[Daytr]

Trump's new running mate JD Vance compared Trump to Hitler back in 2016.
Amazing what the lure of power will do to change someone's mind.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jd-vance-once-compared-trump-hitler-now-they-are-running-mates-2024-07-15/

[Panda-NZ-]

Laser focused on the white vote.

I wonder if hispanics will do anything about the snub of Rubio. There's a certain section who won't though (ex-cubans) since they aren't used to a democracy so prefer the safety of a junta over a democratic alternative with a different opinion.

[Bjauck]

Trump's new running mate JD Vance compared Trump to Hitler back in 2016.
Amazing what the lure of power will do to change someone's mind.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jd-vance-once-compared-trump-hitler-now-they-are-running-mates-2024-07-15/
Some of the more traditional Republicans are scared by Trump’s populism. They don’t know how to handle it.

https://www.ft.com/content/3b9a4ec5-8b5c-4f62-9da9-121d12743c7b May be paywalled.

[Panda-NZ-]

If trump gets too far ahead the russian bots will start propping up Biden (I suspect this is already happening to some extent). Their only goal is to cause social division and long term destruction of the US.

[ynot]

Trump is confirmed as the Republican candidate.

The suspected 20 year old gunman Thomas Crooks was a registered Republican and a lone wolf apparently.

You can take his registered republican status with a grain of salt. He also donated to the democrats.
He obviously was not enamored with trump, hence he shot him.

"However, federal campaign finance reports also show that he donated $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project - a liberal voter turnout group, through the Democratic donation platform ActBlue. The donation was made on January 20, 2021, the day President Joe Biden was sworn in to office"

[Panda-NZ-]

I suppose timing is important.. when did he register as republican vs when the donation was made when he was 16 years old.

[Bjauck]

I suppose timing is important.. when did he register as republican vs when the donation was made when he was 16 years old.
The Republican Party has changed to accommodate the MAGA movement, and Trump’s morals. Is Trump a Conservative in name only? Is he universally beloved in the Republican Party?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/18/donald-trump-paradox-gop-00097458

The Republicans used to be staunch defenders of the US constitution.

[Panda-NZ-]

The Republicans used to be staunch defenders of the US constitution.


Is their new constitution the 60 bucks trump bible or the Project 2025 booklet, hard to say. ;)

[Getty]

Dodging bullets, support growing, having prosecutions against him dismissed, the former President is coming up Trumps.

Unlike the other Joker.

[Balance]

Dodging bullets, support growing, having prosecutions against him dismissed, the former President is coming up Trumps.

Unlike the other Joker.

And not only is Trump Joker 1, he is still a lying Fornicator. Plus, a sore loser & a convicted crook with no honour and no morals. And always will be.

And the other Joker beat him in 2020 despite being sleepy and all the other things that Joker 1 called him!

Says a lot about the pathetic state of the US!

[Getty]

And now the Don has got an adVance.

Bit of a turn around story that one though.

Once a NeverTrumper, Mr Vance has reshuffled his cards, and is ready to play the high stakes as Don's potential VP.

[Balance]

And now the Don has got an adVance.

Bit of a turn around story that one though.

Once a NeverTrumper, Mr Vance has reshuffled his cards, and is ready to play the high stakes as Don's potential VP.

Well characterised, Getty!

No principles and morals - what a team!

[kiwikeith]

Well characterised, Getty!

No principles and morals - what a team!

Trumps running mate is not quite as important as Biden's running mate (if indeed Biden gets to run). Should Biden win, it is a certainty that the VP will be asked to take over before the 4 year term is up,

[Getty]

With the International Brotherhood of Teamsters on board the Republican National Convention, what could possibly go wrong now?

Lick that Comrade Cinders and the Labour Greens!

[Balance]

Well characterised, Getty!

No principles and morals - what a team!

Spouse abusers rejoice!

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/donald-trumps-running-mate-jd-vances-violent-marriage-comment-resurfaces/news-story/d3c7263e32d7a6fe4b4fe92cf10f6839

[Getty]

Revelations Mr Crooks the gunman was up on the roof for 25 minutes.

Any longer, and they would have charged him rent!

Only in America.

[Balance]

Revelations Mr Crooks the gunman was up on the roof for 25 minutes.

Any longer, and they would have charged him rent!

Only in America.

All a set up, you reckon?

[Getty]

All a set up, you reckon?

Well, l do remember Keith Quinn's brother Harry, who was Commander of the Police operation at Athletic Park, Wellington in the 1981 Springbok Tour.
The place was like a fortress, and entry was barred to a quite a few.

However a group of Maori children got close to one of the entrances, without tickets.

A motion was made to Harry's vantage point, and Harry nodded, and the kids were ushered in by a constable.

Perhaps a similar kindly gent, or woman now the SS is diverse, eyed up Crooks, and thought he's only a geek, let him in!

[Panda-NZ-]

Trump already has a record - 2016 to 2020 and he didn't do anything except eat KFC.

Wall was not built, jobs not brought back (unlike with Biden's chips act that europe always complains about because it was too good)

[Balance]

Trump appears at convention, prompting delegates to chant ‘fxxk! Fxxk!’ to the lying Fornicator! Highly appropriate!

Next they will be chanting ‘Grab! Grab! Grab Americans by their genitalia!”

https://www.nbcnews.com/

[jonu]

Trump already has a record - 2016 to 2020 and he didn't do anything except eat KFC.

Wall was not built, jobs not brought back (unlike with Biden's chips act that europe always complains about because it was too good)

No new wars too. Quite a non-achievement compared to the warmonger Biden/Democrats. No messy cockup withdrawal from Afghanistan, and no paying the Taliban 8 billion USD to stabilise the currency afterwards either. Just think how long 8 billion will fund terrorist activity across the middle east. All those lovely wars to come where US manufacturers will supply both sides with arms.

[Balance]

No new wars too. Quite a non-achievement compared to the warmonger Biden/Democrats. No messy cockup withdrawal from Afghanistan, and no paying the Taliban 8 billion USD to stabilise the currency afterwards either. Just think how long 8 billion will fund terrorist activity across the middle east. All those lovely wars to come where US manufacturers will supply both sides with arms.

You forget about the most despicable and traitorous act by Trump - the betrayal of the Kurds. The message sent then was that US is not a dependable and honourable ally - irreparable damage to the deterrent strength inherent in the Western Alliance.

Then, there’s the appeasements of Putin & Kim - lovefest of the dictators and wannabe dictator.

“Fxxk! Fxxk!” Chanted the crowd at the RNC.

[kiwikeith]

Then, there’s the appeasements of Putin & Kim - lovefest of the dictators and wannabe dictator.



Actually Putin did not invade Ukraine during Tump's watch.

[Balance]

Actually Putin did not invade Ukraine during Tump's watch.

He was busy preparing the groundwork for the invasion - to be expected after Trump undermined NATO. The betrayal of the Kurds by Trump was the catalyst to prepare for the invasion.

“Fxxk! Fxxk!” Chanted the crowd at the RNC. “Grab them by the pxsses!”

[jonu]

You forget about the most despicable and traitorous act by Trump - the betrayal of the Kurds. The message sent then was that US is not a dependable and honourable ally - irreparable damage to the deterrent strength inherent in the Western Alliance.

Then, there’s the appeasements of Putin & Kim - lovefest of the dictators and wannabe dictator.

“Fxxk! Fxxk!” Chanted the crowd at the RNC.

The Kurds was a terrible situation, but not one of Trump's making as I recall. Appeasing Putin and Kim? Putin didn't do squat when Trump was President. Under Obama he laid siege to Georgia, invaded Crimea and Russian forces shot down a civilian airliner. Under Biden Putin invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply. For all Trump's faults, and despite the bull**** rhetoric of the Democrats, the world was a safer place when he was President. Just ask Ukraine.

[Balance]

The Kurds was a terrible situation, but not one of Trump's making as I recall. Appeasing Putin and Kim? Putin didn't do squat when Trump was President. Under Obama he laid siege to Georgia, invaded Crimea and Russian forces shot down a civilian airliner. Under Biden Putin invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply. For all Trump's faults, and despite the bull**** rhetoric of the Democrats, the world was a safer place when he was President. Just ask Ukraine.

Just ask the Kurds how they were betrayed and abandoned to their fate by Trump.

Revives memories of the other betrayals by US.

[Panda-NZ-]

Actually Putin did not invade Ukraine during Tump's watch.

American troops are not involved in ukraine.

[dobby41]

Says a lot about the pathetic state of the US!

Sure does - 333 million people and they're the best options to offer the voters?
Pathetic indeed.

[kiwikeith]

He was busy preparing the groundwork for the invasion - to be expected after Trump undermined NATO. The betrayal of the Kurds by Trump was the catalyst to prepare for the invasion.

“Fxxk! Fxxk!” Chanted the crowd at the RNC. “Grab them by the pxsses!”

Balance I am not sure if you actually believe your own bulldust or if you just like playing the devils advocate.

[dobby41]

American troops are not involved in ukraine.

Neither will American money if Trump gets in.

[Panda-NZ-]

Neither will American money if Trump gets in.

Yeah they want to withdraw from the world.

Because there's homeless people, broken roads or something (but the money's not going there either).

[Daytr]

The Kurds was a terrible situation, but not one of Trump's making as I recall. Appeasing Putin and Kim? Putin didn't do squat when Trump was President. Under Obama he laid siege to Georgia, invaded Crimea and Russian forces shot down a civilian airliner. Under Biden Putin invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply. For all Trump's faults, and despite the bull**** rhetoric of the Democrats, the world was a safer place when he was President. Just ask Ukraine.

Ask the Ukraine?
Is Putin going to withdraw from the Ukraine once Trump pulls US support?
Ask them if they want Trump as the next President or even JD Vance as VP.
All Putin has to do is wait and then US funding will dry up and Putin will take what he wants.
Not a Trump supporter... yeah right. Acts like a duck, quacks like a ....
Mind you I would be embarrassed to admit it to.

[dobby41]

Yeah they want to withdraw from the world.

Because there's homeless people, broken roads or something (but the money's not going there either).

They still want to rule the world though.

[Panda-NZ-]

Balance I am not sure if you actually believe your own bulldust or if you just like playing the devils advocate.

He's not even promising to do anything this time.

He learned from his signature promise to build a wall, how easy is it to assemble some bricks together? Instead it ended up like his business ventures.

[kiwikeith]

He's not even promising to do anything this time.

He learned from his signature promise to build a wall, how easy is it to assemble some bricks together? Instead it ended up like his business ventures.

Trump has a load of faults and deficiencies. But I would not criticise him for his business skills. Most Western political leaders are lawyers or career politicians. Out of interest, Panda, how many golf courses do you actuallly own?

[ynot]

He's not even promising to do anything this time.

He learned from his signature promise to build a wall, how easy is it to assemble some bricks together? Instead it ended up like his business ventures.

And Biden has allowed 8 million illegal immigrants through the boarder on his watch.

[Bjauck]

Trump has a load of faults and deficiencies. But I would not criticise him for his business skills. Most Western political leaders are lawyers or career politicians. Out of interest, Panda, how many golf courses do you actuallly own? Trump inherited money. In 2021 Forbes reckoned that Trump also added to that wealth with some good real estate investments for much of his life. However with the boom on the US stock market more recently, they reckon Trump would have been wealthier if he had invested his inheritance in the S&P500 index.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/10/11/its-official-trump-would-be-richer-if-he-had-just-invested-his-inheritance-into-the-sp500/

[kiwikeith]

Trump inherited money. In 2021 Forbes reckoned that Trump also added to that wealth with some good real estate investments for much of his life. However with the boom on the US stock market more recently, they reckon Trump would have been wealthier if he had invested his inheritance in the S&P500 index.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/10/11/its-official-trump-would-be-richer-if-he-had-just-invested-his-inheritance-into-the-sp500/

That is quite a simple analysis. Trump is essentially a property mogul (although he made a fair amount from the apprentice). So how did a property index fund compare with the S&P 500? He does not have the help of amazon, microsoft, alphabet etc which have propelled the S&P500. Also the analysis assumes he could have invested the inheritance into the S&P 500 and lived a frugal life. But he has his own helicopter and 2 divorces behind him so he probably spent a large amount over the years. How rich did his siblings become, assuming they inherited an equal amount to Donald?

[Panda-NZ-]

Micheal Bloomberg & Shultz (republican businessmen) both called out Trump's business skills.

[Getty]

Donald has rolled his dice and come up with JD Vance.

He's diverse!?
39 years old.
I bet he plays a mean game of poker.

No token choices for Don eh?

USA USA USA USA.

[Getty]

JD Vance comes armed with an Indian wife.

Between Trumps Russian wife and her, we now have America, Europe and Asia united.

No more wars!

[Panda-NZ-]

No more wars!

How do authoritarians remain in power?

Launch a war once they predictably fail on the domestic front.

[jonu]

JD Vance comes armed with an Indian wife.

Between Trumps Russian wife and her, we now have America, Europe and Asia united.

No more wars!

I think Melania would object to be called Russian. She was born in what was then Communist Yugoslavia (now Slovenia). People fight wars over such things Getty! :p

[Getty]

I think Melania would object to be called Russian. She was born in what was then Communist Yugoslavia (now Slovenia). People fight wars over such things Getty! :p
Oops, thanks for the correction.

That's the end of my job prospects at the UN.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think Melania would object to be called Russian. She was born in what was then Communist Yugoslavia (now Slovenia). People fight wars over such things Getty! :p

Nah it's appropriate for the Trump-Vance ticket.

Look forward to hearing more of these things from Vance in particular.

[ynot]

Nah it's appropriate for the Trump-Vance ticket.

Look forward to hearing more of these things from Vance in particular.


Get over it Panda. The left is crumbling.

[jonu]

Oops, thanks for the correction.

That's the end of my job prospects at the UN.

Would probably get you a job in Hillary Clinton's office though. She of the Russian asset lie. The last 2 Democrat presidents have been Putin's biggest assets towards his consolidation of power and probable aims to return Russia's borders to that of the old Soviet Union.

Putin lays siege to Georgia, invades Crimea and shoots down a civilian airliner under Obama (at least his forces did). Invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply under Biden. Then Biden helps him further by blowing up the undersea gas pipeline! (Biden even said he would do that 12 months earlier). The losers in the gas fiasco? The European public. The big gainers? US gas interests.

[Bjauck]

Donald has rolled his dice and come up with JD Vance.

He's diverse!?
39 years old.
I bet he plays a mean game of poker.

No token choices for Don eh?

USA USA USA USA. Are you a maga American? I am not sure that his All the way with the USA will be good for the traditional allies of the USA. He wants Russia to attack NATO countries, because they don’t spend enough on the military. NZ certainly does not pay its way in that regard.

He supports Putin over Ukraine. He calls probably their closest ally, the UK, the first Islamist state to have nuclear weapons, because Labour won the election. He believes memes? He was against Biden’s plans for gun control, yet wants to ban consensual porn.

[Bjauck]

I think Melania would object to be called Russian. She was born in what was then Communist Yugoslavia (now Slovenia). People fight wars over such things Getty! :p That’s an unimportant detail for the World view of Trump fans. Europeans should be so lucky to be under Putin’s Russia! The democratic countries of the European Union are to be feared more than Putin’s Russia.

[Panda-NZ-]

Putin lays siege to Georgia, invades Crimea and shoots down a civilian airliner under Obama (at least his forces did). Invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply under Biden. Then Biden helps him further by blowing up the undersea gas pipeline! (Biden even said he would do that 12 months earlier). The losers in the gas fiasco? The European public. The big gainers? US gas interests.

Russia is completely bogged down in Ukraine. It's a slog for them (with only a token amount of money spent compared to afghanistan).

If we withdraw pressure then it frees them up to help Iran, China, Venezeula get up to all sorts.

[jonu]

Russia is completely bogged down in Ukraine. It's a slog for them (with only a token amount of money spent compared to afghanistan ).

If we withdraw pressure then it frees them up to help Iran, China, Venezeula get up to all sorts.

The US has already sent multiples more to Ukraine than it spent in 20 years in Afghanistan. That's even accounting for the 8 billion Biden's administration sent the Taliban after leaving Afghanistan with his tail between his legs.

[Panda-NZ-]

The US has already sent multiples more to Ukraine than it spent in 20 years in Afghanistan. That's even accounting for the 8 billion Biden's administration sent the Taliban after leaving Afghanistan with his tail between his legs.

Source?

$1.4T was spent by Bush fighting hill-tribes in pickup trucks who managed to elude them for a minimum of 8 years until obama found and killed Bin Laden

$200b was spent to fight the new imperial russian army (and yes some to prop up the ukrainian govt).

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2023/us-spending-ukraine-more-than-afghanistan/
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

[Daytr]

Would probably get you a job in Hillary Clinton's office though. She of the Russian asset lie. The last 2 Democrat presidents have been Putin's biggest assets towards his consolidation of power and probable aims to return Russia's borders to that of the old Soviet Union.

Putin lays siege to Georgia, invades Crimea and shoots down a civilian airliner under Obama (at least his forces did). Invades Ukraine and squeezes Euro gas supply under Biden. Then Biden helps him further by blowing up the undersea gas pipeline! (Biden even said he would do that 12 months earlier). The losers in the gas fiasco? The European public. The big gainers? US gas interests.

So you are blaming the Democrats for Putin's actions. What a twisted view on things, but at least you're consistent.

How dare the Ukraine, Poland or Scandinavian countries choose who they want to align themselves with. How dare they act like an independent sovereign state just because it upsets a dictator next door who murders opposition at will.

How dare the US & Europe stand up to such a despot who wants to reinstate the Russian empire. Ask how many of those previous members of the USSR would want to return to Russian control. Russia first infiltrates which continued under Trump's watch and then invades.

[Daytr]

Source?

$1.4T was spent by Bush fighting hill-tribes in pickup trucks who managed to elude them for a minimum of 8 years until obama found and killed Bin Laden

$200b was spent to fight the imperial russian army (and yes some to prop up the ukrainian govt).

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2023/us-spending-ukraine-more-than-afghanistan/
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

Comon Panda, don't let facts get in the way of a good viral story.

In Jonu's defence, being a rabbit warren dwelling conspiracy theorist, he gets bombarded by the algorithms with false information all the time and it's hard to decide which is the juicier lie to spread.

[Panda-NZ-]

How dare the US & Europe stand up to such a despot who wants to reinstate the Russian empire. Ask how many of those previous members of the USSR would want to return to Russian control. Russia first infiltrates which continued under Trump's watch and then invades.

Plus the ukranians actually want the help and have asked not only for the means to fight for their own freedom but ours as well.

Jonu complains about withdrawing from the $2t afghanistan adventure (presmuably he wants to stay there for 30 more years) but how many picked up the abandoned weapons and why did the afghan army immediately surrender?

[Bjauck]

So you are blaming the Democrats for Putin's actions. What a twisted view on things, but at least you're consistent.

How dare the Ukraine, Poland or Scandinavian countries choose who they want to align themselves with. How dare they act like an independent sovereign state just because it upsets a dictator next door who murders opposition at will.

How dare the US & Europe stand up to such a despot who wants to reinstate the Russian empire. Ask how many of those previous members of the USSR would want to return to Russian control. Russia first infiltrates which continued under Trump's watch and then invades. Of course it is Democrat US Presidents, NATO’s defensive alliance, and Russian democrats and opposition that are the aggressors and the problem. Putin is the victim here. ​/irony.

[Panda-NZ-]

Of course it is Democrat US Presidents, NATO’s defensive alliance, and Russian democrats and opposition that are the aggressors and the problem. Putin is the victim here. ​/irony.

You need the other side of the story.

The US had to send the best journalist they have in stock to get it... Tucker Carlson.

[jonu]

Source?

$1.4T was spent by Bush fighting hill-tribes in pickup trucks who managed to elude them for a minimum of 8 years until obama found and killed Bin Laden

$200b was spent to fight the new imperial russian army (and yes some to prop up the ukrainian govt).

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2023/us-spending-ukraine-more-than-afghanistan/
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

These are my sources which back up my statement. And that only covers until mid 2023.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/war-funding-ukraine-what-matters/index.html
https://www.statista.com/chart/29375/us-military-aid-to-ukraine-compared-to-past-wars/

Your source for the trillions figure for Afghanistan seems extraordinarily vague for a so called fact checking site.
Either way, both spends for a questionable outcome but a very profitable war are heinous.

[jonu]

Of course it is Democrat US Presidents, NATO’s defensive alliance, and Russian democrats and opposition that are the aggressors and the problem. Putin is the victim here. ​/irony.

I merely pointed out what Putin got up to under the two most recent Democrat Presidents, as opposed to sitting on his hands when Trump was President.

Why the outrage? I wasn't critical of Ukraine for defending itself.

The ridiculous position that Biden good/Trump bad doesn't stand scrutiny.

[Panda-NZ-]

These are my sources which back up my statement. And that only covers until mid 2023.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/war-funding-ukraine-what-matters/index.html
https://www.statista.com/chart/29375/us-military-aid-to-ukraine-compared-to-past-wars/

Your source for the trillions figure for Afghanistan seems extraordinarily vague for a so called fact checking site.
Either way, both spends for a questionable outcome but a very profitable war are heinous.

Oh jonu *sigh*, those are annual figures. Multiply the Afghanistan figure by 20.

[jonu]

Oh jonu *sigh*, those are annual figures. Multiply the Afghanistan figure by 20.

There's 10 years of Afghan data there

[Balance]

I merely pointed out what Putin got up to under the two most recent Democrat Presidents, as opposed to sitting on his hands when Trump was President.

Why the outrage? I wasn't critical of Ukraine for defending itself.

The ridiculous position that Biden good/Trump bad doesn't stand scrutiny.

Putin did not have to lift a finger under Trump as the Fornicator was doing all the work for him - undermining NATO and Western allies. What a great deal it was for Putin!

[Daytr]

Oh jonu *sigh*, those are annual figures. Multiply the Afghanistan figure by 20.

I was about to say, Jonu obviously doesn't understand what his own source is saying.
Annual, is a pretty key word there.
Oh well in 10 - 20 years if the Ukraine war it's still going on he might be proven right.
Let's hope neither are the case.

[jonu]

Putin did not have to lift a finger under Trump as the Fornicator was doing all the work for him - undermining NATO and Western allies. What a great deal it was for Putin!

Well that would be one view. Except that NATO had been freeloading/screwing the US for years and Trump was right to call them out.
Don't you see a pattern of warmongering across multiple US administrations of both Republicans and Democrats? Trump's not in the club. I think he genuinely doesn't want the US constantly at war, or funding insurgents in every corner either. Who in their right mind would give the Taliban 8 billion just months after they had crapped all over the US withdrawal from Afghanistan? Well Joe did...but it is evident to even Democrat supporters Joe is not in his right mind...or even his left!

[Daytr]

Well that would be one view. Except that NATO had been freeloading/screwing the US for years and Trump was right to call them out.
Don't you see a pattern of warmongering across multiple US administrations of both Republicans and Democrats? Trump's not in the club. I think he genuinely doesn't want the US constantly at war, or funding insurgents in every corner either. Who in their right mind would give the Taliban 8 billion just months after they had crapped all over the US withdrawal from Afghanistan? Well Joe did...but it is evident to even Democrat supporters Joe is not in his right mind...or even his left!

But not a Trump supporter eh... :rolleyes:
How about those annualized figures?
Quit whilst you are ahead.

[Bjauck]

Well that would be one view. Except that NATO had been freeloading/screwing the US for years and Trump was right to call them out.
Don't you see a pattern of warmongering across multiple US administrations of both Republicans and Democrats? Trump's not in the club. I think he genuinely doesn't want the US constantly at war, or funding insurgents in every corner either. Who in their right mind would give the Taliban 8 billion just months after they had crapped all over the US withdrawal from Afghanistan? Well Joe did...but it is evident to even Democrat supporters Joe is not in his right mind...or even his left!A few questions to think about. The US is both an Atlantic and a Pacific country. If you strip out the atomic weaponry and infrastructure, which the USA has as a counter to China, how does the percentage of gdp spent on defence compare with the rest of the NATO countries? How would the US economy fare if Russia countrolled much of Europe and China controlled much of Asia? How would the balance of power change? How safe would the USA be? What percentage of defence spending actually stimulates the US economy?

[Panda-NZ-]

Well that would be one view. Except that NATO had been freeloading/screwing the US for years and Trump was right to call them out.
Don't you see a pattern of warmongering across multiple US administrations of both Republicans and Democrats? Trump's not in the club. I think he genuinely doesn't want the US constantly at war, or funding insurgents in every corner either. Who in their right mind would give the Taliban 8 billion just months after they had crapped all over the US withdrawal from Afghanistan? Well Joe did...but it is evident to even Democrat supporters Joe is not in his right mind...or even his left!

There hasn't been a war between great powers since NATO.

Isolationism was the US view pre-WW2 and it was a "head-in-the-sand" position that led to a surprise attack which crippled the US Navy and directly before that countries that *could* have been US allies being smashed down by tyrants. Small actions are taken now to prevent issues later.

A rational cost-benefit comparison should be done.

[jonu]

A few questions to think about. The US is both an Atlantic and a Pacific country. If you strip out the atomic weaponry and infrastructure, which the USA has as a counter to China, how does the percentage of gdp spent on defence compare with the rest of the NATO countries? How would the US economy fare if Russia countrolled much of Europe and China controlled much of Asia? How would the balance of power change? How safe would the USA be? What percentage of defence spending actually stimulates the US economy?

Fair questions...I think a lot of the answers come down to foreign policy and whether you consider arming your allies a form of defence...or whether it is just seen as an aggression by your competitors. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. But aside from all that, consider the second Iraq war and destruction of Iraqi infrastructure that was mostly unnecessary. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, yet most US citizens conflated the two. That war was pure business...and I'm not convinced the Russia Ukraine war won't end up being something similar.

Again I raise the gifting of 8 billion to the Afghani government after the US withdrawal. Terrorists across the region would have been lining up with their hands out....the ones that weren't already full with the munitions the US left behind when they left.

See the picture. The US stokes the war, arms the enemy and profits from both sides.

[Panda-NZ-]

Again I raise the gifting of 8 billion to the Afghani government after the US withdrawal. Terrorists across the region would have been lining up with their hands out....the ones that weren't already full with the munitions the US left behind when they left.


Which wouldn't have happened if the aghan army didn't stop fighting after one hour of resistence (which surprised the army staff who planned the withdrawal).

Yes Iraq and Afghanistan were not ideal and I personally disagree with Neocons. But if dems have to ally with neo-cons to prevent WW3 against tough opponents (rather than vs hollowed out vessels like Russia currently is) then so be it.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think Ukraine has partly destroyed the russian fleet too, a direct benefit for us and NATO. There's your value for money :)

[Balance]

Fair questions...I think a lot of the answers come down to foreign policy and whether you consider arming your allies a form of defence...or whether it is just seen as an aggression by your competitors. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. But aside from all that, consider the second Iraq war and destruction of Iraqi infrastructure that was mostly unnecessary. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, yet most US citizens conflated the two. That war was pure business...and I'm not convinced the Russia Ukraine war won't end up being something similar.

Again I raise the gifting of 8 billion to the Afghani government after the US withdrawal. Terrorists across the region would have been lining up with their hands out....the ones that weren't already full with the munitions the US left behind when they left.

See the picture. The US stokes the war, arms the enemy and profits from both sides.

Jonu, you keep going on and on about the $8 billion ‘gifted’ to the Taliban. You know of course that the money was frozen funds (legally belonging to Afghanistan) and was released to provide humanitarian relief?

Forget about the BS from the Republicans about the money going to the Taliban etc etc - same Republicans never mentioned a single thing about Trump betraying the Kurds, ‘gifting’ them to their enemies to be slaughtered.

There are effective ways to engage with allies and ‘enemies’ to achieve desired results. Trump’s public disagreements with allies about defense spending and appeasement of Putin & Kim have achieved nothing but encouragement for Putin to act as he has - a weakened NATO gifted by Trump.

[jonu]

Jonu, you keep going on and on about the $8 billion ‘gifted’ to the Taliban. You know of course that the money was frozen funds (legally belonging to Afghanistan) and was released to provide humanitarian relief? Forget about the BS from the Republicans about the money going to the Taliban etc etc......

No, I don't know that. And frankly, neither do you. There was also an estimate I saw that only about one third of funds sent to Ukraine could be accounted for.

Why wouldn't I go on about the 8 billion? The report I read said it went to the Afghani Reserve bank to supposedly stabilise the currency.

[Panda-NZ-]

There are effective ways to engage with allies and ‘enemies’ to achieve desired results. Trump’s public disagreements with allies about defense spending and appeasement of Putin & Kim have achieved nothing but encouragement for Putin to act as he has - a weakened NATO gifted by Trump.

He may simply be continuing the war because he knows the cavalry is on the way with a Trump white house.

If there's four more years of Biden; combined with uncertainty on the Republican side over whether a neo-con will replace trump or another isolationist the Russian secret service will want to wrap it up and find another distraction for the populace.

[Balance]

No, I don't know that. And frankly, neither do you. There was also an estimate I saw that only about one third of funds sent to Ukraine could be accounted for.

Why wouldn't I go on about the 8 billion? The report I read said it went to the Afghani Reserve bank to supposedly stabilise the currency.

Because you are reading the reports about the $8 billion which come from the Republicans whose sole aim since 2020 are to undermine US democracy in favour of Trumpism - that’s why you should read other reports.

Next, you will be posting about how Trump won the election in 2020 and how Jan 6th sacking of the Congressional Building never happened. And how Pelosi was the one who declined to call in the troops!

And you are very quiet about Trump ‘gifting’ the Kurds to be slaughtered? Why so?

[jonu]

Because you are reading the reports about the $8 billion which come from the Republicans whose sole aim since 2020 are to undermine US democracy in favour of Trumpism - that’s why you should read other reports.

Next, you will be posting about how Trump won the election in 2020 and how Jan 6th sacking of the Congressional Building never happened. And how Pelosi was the one who declined to call in the troops!

And you are very quiet about Trump ‘gifting’ the Kurds to be slaughtered? Why so?

I have already replied re the Kurds.
I find it the blinkered Biden good/Trump bad thinking on this thread extraordinary. Warmongering has been made an art by the BushSnr/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden administrations. Note that accounts for 12 years of Republican presidency as well. They are as bad as each other.

[Panda-NZ-]

I have already replied re the Kurds.
I find it the blinkered Biden good/Trump bad thinking on this thread extraordinary. Warmongering has been made an art by the BushSnr/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden administrations. Note that accounts for 12 years of Republican presidency as well. They are as bad as each other.

Minor conflicts more recently though, with an all volunteer force (no americans at all in ukraine).

In the korean & vietnam wars there was conscription which was a trainwreck. Veterans in these conflicts rightly deserve to have compensation.

[ynot]

I have already replied re the Kurds.
I find it the blinkered Biden good/Trump bad thinking on this thread extraordinary. Warmongering has been made an art by the BushSnr/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden administrations. Note that accounts for 12 years of Republican presidency as well. They are as bad as each other.

It is indeed extraordinary. You have to be ignoring plenty of realty to believe the covert nature of US politics. Whatever helps you feel warm and fuzzy I guess.

[Daytr]

I have already replied re the Kurds.
I find it the blinkered Biden good/Trump bad thinking on this thread extraordinary. Warmongering has been made an art by the BushSnr/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden administrations. Note that accounts for 12 years of Republican presidency as well. They are as bad as each other.

What wars did Obama or Biden start?
The legacy of both Bush administrations was long lasting. Trump didn't finish the job of withdrawal which was always going to be messy. He left that to Biden.

I don't see Biden as good / Trump bad.
My take Biden average and shouldn't re stand.
Trump horrendous and dangerous.

[Daytr]

Trump causes chip related stocks to tumble.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/17/donald-trump-taiwan-pay-us-defence-china-national-convention

[fungus pudding]

What wars did Obama or Biden start?
The legacy of both Bush administrations was long lasting. Trump didn't finish the job of withdrawal which was always going to be messy. He left that to Biden.

I don't see Biden as good / Trump bad.
My take Biden average and shouldn't re stand.
Trump horrendous and dangerous.

Biden must sureely be ready to pull the plug now, after a new positive covid test.

[Bjauck]

Trump causes chip related stocks to tumble.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/17/donald-trump-taiwan-pay-us-defence-china-national-convention
The USA economy provides a gdp per person at ppp materially in excess of Australia, Japan, Canada, Taiwan and the average for the EU. Since WW2, the USA benefits from the current status quo, and paying for Pax Americana (local wars notwithstanding) The major powers during Pax Britannia and Pax Romana had the same cost/benefit. Trump seems keen to pass this American hegemony to China and Russia.

[Getty]

So, has Joey got Covid or Convid?

I smell a political sidestep.

With 14 + swing states going Trumps way, the wily Demos are manufacturing a process where Joey can step aside due to 'complications'.

He has already prepared the way, by giving a very recent interview saying the only thing that would make him step aside is a medical event.

[ynot]

So, has Joey got Covid or Convid?

I smell a political sidestep.

With 14 + swing states going Trumps way, the wily Demos are manufacturing a process where Joey can step aside due to 'complications'.

He has already prepared the way, by giving a very recent interview saying the only thing that would make him step aside is a medical event.


Or they just keep him there and use the "covid brain fog" for cover. Better the vegetable you know than the idiot kamala.

[blackcap]

Or they just keep him there and use the "covid brain fog" for cover. Better the vegetable you know than the idiot kamala.

I think they are going to swap him out for Newson. No way would they let "heels up Harris" run v Trump.

[Daytr]

Or they just keep him there and use the "covid brain fog" for cover. Better the vegetable you know than the idiot kamala.

Do tell why you think Harris is an idiot?
You don't become a successful attorney general and not be highly intelligent.
Have you seen her record on what she made banks etc pay for their role in the subprime mortgage debacle?


I think they are going to swap him out for Newson. No way would they let "heels up Harris" run v Trump.

Typical misogynistic comment being spread by the right. Here we have a successful woman, so she must have slept her way there.

America probably isn't ready for a strong, intelligent woman of mixed race to be president but that says far more about America than it does strong intelligent women of any racial mix.

[blackcap]

Do tell why you think Harris is an idiot?
You don't become a successful attorney general and not be highly intelligent.
Have you seen her record on what she made banks etc pay for their role in the subprime mortgage debacle?



Typical misogynistic comment being spread by the right. Here we have a successful woman, so she must have slept her way there.

America probably isn't ready for a strong, intelligent woman of mixed race to be president but that says far more about America than it does strong intelligent women of any racial mix.

Haha you gotta be kidding me with that "intelligent woman" call. Have you seen her word salads?

There is some truth to her sleeping her way to power.. unless blowing the mayor does not count?

[Getty]

So, has Joey got Covid or Convid?

I smell a political sidestep.

With 14 + swing states going Trumps way, the wily Demos are manufacturing a process where Joey can step aside due to 'complications'.

He has already prepared the way, by giving a very recent interview saying the only thing that would make him step aside is a medical event.

Mind you, regardless of what the Democrats want, the old chap may take advice from Darleen, to ride it for all its worth!

[blackcap]

America probably isn't ready for a strong, intelligent woman of mixed race to be president but that says far more about America than it does strong intelligent women of any racial mix.

You do talk a lot of crap. I would be extremally happy for say Candace Owens to be President of America. Cackles Kamala is just not my cup of tea.

[Daytr]

You do talk a lot of crap. I would be extremally happy for say Candace Owens to be President of America. Cackles Kamala is just not my cup of tea.

Can you read? I said America not you.


Haha you gotta be kidding me with that "intelligent woman" call. Have you seen her word salads?

There is some truth to her sleeping her way to power.. unless blowing the mayor does not count?

Are you referring to Mayor Brown that she had a 10 year relationship with?

Hey but it's OK for a make candidate to grab em by the p&%%@.

Please don't tell me you don't understand what she is saying when questioning her intelligence.
That takes the cake.

[Panda-NZ-]

Newsom could rally the democratic donor class.. silicon valley strikes back.

He beat ron desantis on a fox news debate and you need the second debate to be a "knockout" after the lethargic Biden display.

[causecelebre]

If Biden or Harris don't run then by law the dem's cannot use their +/- $1b USD campaign war chest. They would need new donations from somewhere.

[ynot]

Haha you gotta be kidding me with that "intelligent woman" call. Have you seen her word salads?

There is some truth to her sleeping her way to power.. unless blowing the mayor does not count?

How anyone with half a brain could consider Harris a suitable president has obviously not listened to her for 2 minutes. She is as thick as a brick. Whats more the party know that and believe Joe has a better chance of winning. What does that tell you !

[Daytr]

How anyone with half a brain could consider Harris a suitable president has obviously not listened to her for 2 minutes. She is as thick as a brick. Whats more the party know that and believe Joe has a better chance of winning. What does that tell you !

Seriously? You may not like what she says or how she says it but that's down to you.
You don't become Attorney General of California and be thick as a brick as you put it.

What it tells me is that the US isn't ready for a female president of mixed race. She also has some baggage from her prosecution days but it's nothing compared to Trump’s baggage, but he's a man, so it doesn't matter...

I'm not saying she should be the candidate I'm just refuting your lazy slagging off remarks. What's worse being called an idiot or the slander of sleeping to the top?

You both spend too much time on Reddit.

Perhaps just listen to the first couple of minutes, or the whole thing if you like. She really sounds like an idiot. 🙄

https://www.c-span.org/video/?537130-1/vice-president-harris-remarks-campaign-event-michigan

Perhaps it wasn't the Aussies that were the problem, perhaps you just said some obnoxious things and doubled down.

[Balance]

How anyone with half a brain could consider Harris a suitable president has obviously not listened to her for 2 minutes. She is as thick as a brick. Whats more the party know that and believe Joe has a better chance of winning. What does that tell you !

Whatever she is, she is not a Fornicating pussy grabbing lying piece of shxt and Bible-brandishing-two-faced hypocrite like Trump. That immediately makes her a superior individual imo.

[Daytr]

Can you read? I said America not you.



Are you referring to Mayor Brown that she had a 10 year relationship with?

Hey but it's OK for a make candidate to grab em by the p&%%@.

Please don't tell me you don't understand what she is saying when questioning her intelligence.
That takes the cake.

Well Blackcap, is that the same mayor?

And further more here's some reading for you, you know from a reliable source not some random on Facebook or redneck chat room.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/07/kamala-harris-sexist-racist-attacks-spread-online/

[Bjauck]

The Secret service had flagged Trump’s would be assassin as suspicious one hour before the attempted murder.

“He was identified as a character of suspicion because [he had] a rangefinder as well as a backpack. And this was over an hour before the shooting actually occurred”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c51ydg792ggo

If a member of the public has a rangefinder to make a gun’s aim more accurate of all things, and he is not part of the team there to protect the politician, then they surely should be detained immediately. Incredible! Is it Only in America that a gun rangefinder is not an incredibly unusual item for a member of the public to have?

[ynot]

Whatever she is, she is not a Fornicating pussy grabbing lying piece of shxt and Bible-brandishing-two-faced hypocrite like Trump. That immediately makes her a superior individual imo.

You detested Jacinda. me to. You appear to have serious concerns for our woke left. me to. The dems if they get their way will destroy America, but you are fine with that.

[Balance]

You detested Jacinda. me to. You appear to have serious concerns for our woke left. me to. The dems if they get their way will destroy America, but you are fine with that.

I don’t care too much about America - it’s already fxxked. The country is a war mongering parasite with only two main exports - US$ and weapons.

The dems may destroy America but Trump will more than destroy America. That’s where I sit with my view.

[Bjauck]

…

Hey but it's OK for a make candidate to grab em by the p&%%@.

Please don't tell me you don't understand what she is saying when questioning her intelligence.
That takes the cake.
Like a Hollywood Horror Film’s antagonist, he will probably rise again for a second stab. Unfortunately it will embolden those who think misogynist attacks are ok, if a woman in a position of power gets into trouble, or has disagreeable politics.

[Panda-NZ-]

If Biden or Harris don't run then by law the dem's cannot use their +/- $1b USD campaign war chest. They would need new donations from somewhere.

$1b vs the optics of kamala harris. Even with $10b can she win?

Newsom I think is well positioned to fundraise the needed money (good connections, innovative mindset and can rally the silicon valley economic machine).

The trump campaign is spending his donations on legal fees rather than the campaign.

[Getty]

SS. Mr President, we have located a gunman on the roof at Trump's rally, do we have permission to shoot!?

B. Now wait, things like that don't happen everyday.
Hold fire till we get every news channel in the country connected with a live feed!

15 minutes later.

SS. Mr President, the geek looks like he's
about to start firing!!!

B. That's the first time I've heard Trump called a geek, but I want the goddamm SOB wiped off the face of the planet!
What have l been saying all along, Trump is unfit to be President of the most coherent nation on Earth!

[Getty]

So, has Joey got Covid or Convid?

I smell a political sidestep.

With 14 + swing states going Trumps way, the wily Demos are manufacturing a process where Joey can step aside due to 'complications'.

He has already prepared the way, by giving a very recent interview saying the only thing that would make him step aside is a medical event.

UPDATE.
CNN has just announced Joey is "receptive to a change of candidacy"

Never...

[Daytr]

I don’t care too much about America - it’s already fxxked. The country is a war mongering parasite with only two main exports - US$ and weapons.

The dems may destroy America but Trump will more than destroy America. That’s where I sit with my view.

How are the Dems going to destroy America?
You make a lot of broad sweeping claims without substance.

The only person who has possibly come close to destroying America was Trump inciting the Capitol Riots. That truly could have gotten very ugly indeed.

[Daytr]

It seems like the heat on Biden from within the Dems camp to step down is growing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/17/joe-biden-democrats-candidacy

[Panda-NZ-]

How are the Dems going to destroy America?
You make a lot of broad sweeping claims without substance.

The only person who has possibly come close to destroying America was Trump inciting the Capitol Riots. That truly could have gotten very ugly indeed.

China is likely going to be brought down by their aging population.
Russia is a third rate power with a lot of problems (in some ways its in a worse state than during the soviet era).

America wins by default... unless it becomes internally divided and trump excels in fanning the flames of social divison.

[Getty]

Urgent MEMO to Schindler Lifts.

Please manufacture urgently an anti embarrassment device.
Namely a lift that can drop down the side of Airforce One, so President Biden won't have to stagger up and down the stairs.
Price irrelevant.

Thanks.

US Airforce.

[Getty]

Quote of the day.

A bullet could not stop Trump.

A virus just stopped Biden!

[ynot]

Quote of the day.

A bullet could not stop Trump.

A virus just stopped Biden!

Trump has hit the Jack pot, Absolutely nailed it.

Love those moments in life when everything just falls into place.

[Balance]

Trump has hit the Jack pot, Absolutely nailed it.

Love those moments in life when everything just falls into place.

Like he ‘nailed’ Stormy and got nailed?

[Daytr]

I heard Joe was told not to bother bring his lunch to work today.
Seriously though I'd say he'll be gone by the end of the weekend.

No wonder the misogynistic rhetoric against Harris is building as the Republicans don't want to see a change.

[Bjauck]

It looks like some Republican MAGAs did not like the Sikh prayer, given by a leading Trump lawyer, at the Republican convention. Trumpism is exclusionary.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/republican-national-convention-prayer-harmeet-dhillon

[ynot]

It looks like some Republican MAGAs did not like the Sikh prayer, given by a leading Trump lawyer, at the Republican convention. Trumpism is exclusionary.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/republican-national-convention-prayer-harmeet-dhillon

This is always going to be contentious. It is no way straightforward and is one of the fundamental problems of today's world. The alternative to the Democrats is a vote for Trump. It is time for America to decide.

[Daytr]

This is always going to be contentious. It is no way straightforward and is one of the fundamental problems of today's world. The alternative to the Democrats is a vote for Trump. It is time for America to decide.

At least you have a sense of humour. 🤣🤣🤣

[Panda-NZ-]

Will you pray for Trump, ynot?

The bloke who has had three divorces, run a casino business and dislikes war veterans and the poor.

[ynot]

Will you pray for Trump, ynot?

The bloke who has had three divorces, run a casino business and dislikes war veterans and the poor.

God works in mysterious ways. Even the wicked can be saved.

[Bjauck]

God works in mysterious ways. Even the wicked can be saved.
However, blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

[Balance]

The lying Fornicator after the bravado - can’t even handle a little nick on his ear?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/media/images/9Tzi8ywRz924XE3uHaD6DZ3Ef+IdbOiYlvIROR5vlqUeRrexTo cZGobKRJ9od%2Fgnk3B%2FCeKTmTAsIjj6Q0YaYaNNBHyB4AYW j9PdBzFgAGqzkd9WMPC7nC6%2FXSX%2FGAWfnEZYbXX73ohmc5 9yqDmaTC5eFMmxV19fXo8Jfl+rhfoV93eR%2FYuUwITIZ%2FRM 1G55nrG5gprX5Tn4PdnbU%2F0mGQ==?resolution=620x350