If National wins ...

[elZorro]

"Andrew "Cut the Crap" Little is shaping up really well. He's completed a proper politically-centred apprenticeship, unlike Key, and he's still 'one of the people' in man"

Mate, he was head of our union and pretty much everyone in it would find the last bit factually incorrect. And as for a political apprenticeship, people generally can't stand a politician who hasn't actually had a real job. John Key was successful in his, and did well. People don't hate that anymore, they want to be it. Labour needs to cop onto this to grab any of the center.

I think that in the end, quite a few people would be pleased to see Helen Clark and Michael Cullen back running the government, instead of the current Joyce and Key. The former are true politicians and academics, whereas the latter are private sector people who have made their money, and are now playing around at something that amuses them. And not doing too good a job of it.

Andrew Little appears to have very little baggage or large assets, a modest home, he still often catches a bus home after work.

Over in Aussie, they've given up on balancing the books for the moment, they're a bit more behind than we are, and I like the new ideas to boost the economy. It is known that business confidence (if it's real) is a great help. Like being able to write off up to $20,000 of each new asset in the first year of purchase, and not stick them on the books to be painfully depreciated. The deal is only for two years, but that's clever.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia...ss-and-parents

[winner69]

EZ, did you hear the guy on the radio this morning who said Prince Harry's visit was a resounding success .... and by following Harry around (and the photo opportunities) it has given John Keys profile a boost .... esp in the eyes of National supporters who get the warm fuzzies seeing their leader doing a good job.

Winning in 2017 isn't about policy differences or that sort of stuff .... its about who is perceived to be best

[BlackPeter]

I think that in the end, quite a few people would be pleased to see Helen Clark and Michael Cullen back running the government, instead of the current Joyce and Key. The former are true politicians and academics, whereas the latter are private sector people who have made their money, and are now playing around at something that amuses them. And not doing too good a job of it.

...

Oh dear ... well, if you mean with "quite a few people" the 20 plus percent voting last time for Labour, than you might be right. Though Clarks arrogance in her third term annoyed even many Labour voters (but people tend to forget). Didn't however yet get the sense that the people are thirsty for career politicians and academics running the show ... as well not sure why you think that an academic who never had to make their hands dirty to make a living can best represent the interests of Kiwis from battle street (including your beloved Workers)?

I didn't realise that Labour is by now that far off its base - but yes, this explains a thing or two.

Personally I would want to see a government representing all walks of life in this country - and given that all the career politicians are anyway in parliament do I think that they are clearly overrepresented - get rid of them!

[winner69]

The clock is ticking and less than 30 months to the next election

I fear Labour wont have sorted out / agreed internally what their narrative will be by then ..... so we are stuck with National for another 3 years at least ..... bugger

[elZorro]

Oh dear ... well, if you mean with "quite a few people" the 20 plus percent voting last time for Labour, than you might be right. Though Clarks arrogance in her third term annoyed even many Labour voters (but people tend to forget). Didn't however yet get the sense that the people are thirsty for career politicians and academics running the show ... as well not sure why you think that an academic who never had to make their hands dirty to make a living can best represent the interests of Kiwis from battle street (including your beloved Workers)?

I didn't realise that Labour is by now that far off its base - but yes, this explains a thing or two.

Personally I would want to see a government representing all walks of life in this country - and given that all the career politicians are anyway in parliament do I think that they are clearly overrepresented - get rid of them!

Yes, I agree BP. Following your argument to its logical conclusion, there would be room for about one National MP who had independent means, maybe only half an MP if they were multi-millionaires. A lot of male MPs would have to go to make way for women MPs, there would be more of asian, maori descent etc. One in 20 MPs would have to be recruited off the dole queue, etc.

W69, yes, interesting that for once John Key wasn't the main star, he was like the moon and was bathed in a small amount of light from the real star, Prince Harry.

[BlackPeter]

Yes, I agree BP. Following your argument to its logical conclusion, there would be room for about one National MP who had independent means, maybe only half an MP if they were multi-millionaires. A lot of male MPs would have to go to make way for women MPs, there would be more of asian, maori descent etc. One in 20 MPs would have to be recruited off the dole queue, etc.

Hi EZ, great we found a subject we agree on.

I would love a more colourful parliament. Different races, multi coloured, different genders, even different nationalities? Oops - no this obviously doesn't work, people with just PR are not allowed to stand. Ah, well.

Given that Labour claims to represent the downtrodden and the beneficiaries - why isn't Labour sending more of them into parliament, instead of career politicians who only (if at all) learned from books what a workers or beneficiaries life might look like?

[elZorro]

Hi EZ, great we found a subject we agree on.

I would love a more colourful parliament. Different races, multi coloured, different genders, even different nationalities? Oops - no this obviously doesn't work, people with just PR are not allowed to stand. Ah, well.

Given that Labour claims to represent the downtrodden and the beneficiaries - why isn't Labour sending more of them into parliament, instead of career politicians who only (if at all) learned from books what a workers or beneficiaries life might look like?

BP, you'll need to vote Green, they have a perfect split of Male/Female, 7MPs of each, and the Maori Party have one of each. United Future and ACT are 100% male, NZ First is 75% male (12MPs total) and National is 73% male (59 MPs total now). Labour is doing OK, 62.5% male, and they try to keep the list 50:50 (32 MPs).

You can get an idea of who the MPs are from this govt website. Looks fairly colourful already, some of these people aren't in the news very often.

http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/mpp/m...arty&Search=Go

Just one question for you BP, who do you think get chosen for candidacy in the electorates? They're going to have to work, unpaid, as many hours as they can, for at least 12 months before an election. They'll only do that if they are very keen to become an MP.

[artemis]

..... Just one question for you BP, who do you think get chosen for candidacy in the electorates? They're going to have to work, unpaid, as many hours as they can, for at least 12 months before an election. They'll only do that if they are very keen to become an MP.

Beneficiaries or over 65s then? Mind you, WINZ might consider beneficiaries work ready if they are putting in those long hours as a candidate.

[craic]

You're all missing the point - the most effective representative system exists - the Swiss system. Every contentious issue is put before the voters in a referendum. Before any "side"can expect to win the vote, they must put forward a convincing argument, on every topic. There is no black or white or male or female bias. Referenda are every few months and you just go to your local booth or postoffice or whatever and cast your vote on several issues at a time. If you're too lazy or tired to vote - well that applies here too. We see politicians from every grubby little patchof dirt on the planet regularly, but the Swiss? I've never come across any of their leaders on the news. I know there will be some corrections from those who use Google but I didn't - Near enough is good enough for me in this summation of the Yodelers Republic.

[BlackPeter]

BP, you'll need to vote Green, they have a perfect split of Male/Female, 7MPs of each

I would - if it wouldn't be for their policies and political bias ...

Just one question for you BP, who do you think get chosen for candidacy in the electorates? They're going to have to work, unpaid, as many hours as they can, for at least 12 months before an election. They'll only do that if they are very keen to become an MP.

Fair enough ... though if this means that mainly middle aged white career politicians are keen to become MP's, than our system might need some improvement. Maybe its just that the others feel they have no chances anyway?

Originally posted by Craic
You're all missing the point - the most effective representative system exists - the Swiss system. Every contentious issue is put before the voters in a referendum. Before any "side"can expect to win the vote, they must put forward a convincing argument, on every topic. There is no black or white or male or female bias. Referenda are every few months and you just go to your local booth or postoffice or whatever and cast your vote on several issues at a time. If you're too lazy or tired to vote - well that applies here too. We see politicians from every grubby little patchof dirt on the planet regularly, but the Swiss? I've never come across any of their leaders on the news. I know there will be some corrections from those who use Google but I didn't - Near enough is good enough for me in this summation of the Yodelers Republic.

Might be worth a thought. It does work in Switzerland - and NZ is comparable in population size. Major obstacle I would see is that most Swiss people are interested in politics (and know what's going on), while the many (not all) New Zealanders appear to be politically quite passive and uninterested but easy to influence by populists (obviously excluding posters and viewers on this thread ) .. Decisions tend to be better, if the decision makers (i.e. in this case the people) care and if they have good information.