SUM - Summerset Group

[Joshuatree]

Excellent sleuthing Vaygor ; great to see some fact uncovering some fiction, thanks

[MAC]

Here is the actual website for the organisation that operate the industry awards for those who may be interested in the real facts about the facts.

http://www.seniors-housing.net/

The awards have been operating for 14 years with 80 retirement village companies entering covering 1,200 villages in Australia and New Zealand. The judges apparently have 28 year’s experience within the industry.

Vaygor, it was actually Morningstar that independently provided that opinion of Ryman, not the industry magazine that published and ran the story, although the magazine seems to somewhat agree as do I and probably many others.

“MELBOURNE: Morningstar has issued an equity research report on Ryman Healthcare Limited (RYM) which raises the spectre of its promulgated Australian foray being a drag on its future results. This journal has long held the view that Ryman's proposed Wheelers Hill Continous Care Retirement Community is a financial 'suicide mission.' Ryman management has been blindsided”

Having moved from Victoria to New Zealand shortly after Ryman announced their Wheelers Hill initiative I was equally perplexed as to why Ryman would ever want to enter Victoria of all states, I’m not sure I would go as far as to say it was financial suicide, maybe naive and under researched perhaps.

Still I think Ryman will make it profitable because they have too, it just is quite unlikely to be nearly as profitable as if they had invested that same cash in the New Zealand market.

[Xerof]

Personally I'd find your sleuthing more believable if you can document the alleged 'link'. You are accusing them of self nomination, and parochial judging, without any evidence, (so far). I think you owe us proof.

there are many sector awards handed out, where nominations are made by industry peers, with judging performed by an 'independent' judge.

Just one example is our local finance industry, the INFINZ annual awards. Nice recognition but would you change bank or broker on that basis?

In any event, I personally put no weight on industry awards anymore, just look at who have won the Exporter of the year, and CEO of the year awards in the past. Remember Fortex?

[Beagle]

Vaygor1 - Yes I see you've made that unsubstantiated claim about an alleged tie up
before and have been grinding that axe for a while now without proof. Yes it appears the website of Housing Care Aged weekly needs updating on that point alone I agree with you.
Frankly unless you can back you assertion of a tie-up with facts its nothing more than
a slanderous and baseless allegation.

[couta1]

Vaygor1 has a clear preference for Ryman when you read all his posts and he's entitled to it but this is a Summerset party here so get the drinks lined up ready for tomorrow,price has already started to creep up while Rym is heading down

[Vaygor1]

Hi all.

Your reaction in the last few posts is not unexpected given your interests in Summerset, but what I have given you is the truth.
I do not favour SUM, RYM, MET over each other and there is no slander in my post. I have stuck to the facts. I would like to see the last two years of these awards if they exist, but I can't find them. Surely if they existed they would be well publicised, or at least updated on their own website.

I shall see if I can find the connection I found back in July last year and report back.

There are a couple of other things you should know about this award:

• Only those villages nominated by someone are 'evaluated'
• I can't find an historical campaign aimed at attracting nominations except this one website which I find to be discrete
• There is no stated evaluation criteria
• There is no judges named.
• There is no documented decision making process
• The website itself, any of their publications, and awards themselves do not name a single person, manager, or organiser who you can contact.

I mean, click on http://www.seniors-housing.net and select 'Awards 2012' on the left. Who is this judge? Any committee of such a prestigious award would want the judges name with all his experience up in lights wouldn't they? Something doesn't add up.

As for just how bona fide the independency if this award is doesn't bother me an iota except for one thing and that is it calls into question just how much the CEO or board of Summerset are prepared to bend the truth on whatever they report, and this in turn impacts my level of investment in them.

If there is a rat here, and I certainly smell one, then we should all be aware of it. I have tried to get to the bottom of it and I can't.

MAC, the reason RYM entered Victoria is a simple one… Melbourne demographics.

[winner69]

Leo Campbell won the 2013 Architecture Award at a ceremony last November - from the publication linked.

No mention f other winners in this publication but we know Summerset won the supreme award

Vayoger ....you should know better than to piss off the believers ...it does seem to rile them even if there is some truth in your outrageous claims. Must admit Summerset seem to get good coverage in this publication

[Banksie]

If there is a rat here, and I certainly smell one, then we should all be aware of it. I have tried to get to the bottom of it and I can't.

I did a little research on who owns the domain and who owns the domain of the parent company. I found similar sites in the UK, US and Canada (http://www.seniorshousingcanada.com, http://www.seniorshousing.co.uk, http://www.seniorshousing.us/).

Domain and or company names all seem to be related - Bevan Crowley, Ann Crowley or Liam Crowley...and the expert who does the judging, editing and public speaking is Edmonde Crawley (http://www.seniorshousing.co.uk/core...erProfile.html).

Edit: Oops mistype it is Esmonde Crawley

[MAC]

MAC, the reason RYM entered Victoria is a simple one… Melbourne demographics.

I think you are correct Vaygor, too simple;

Victoria compared to New Zealand:

Very aggressive unions
Higher construction costs
Longer construction times, working capital tied up for longer
Higher operational labour costs
Lower labour productivity

I’ve first hand experience with union negotiations in Vic and I can assure you they will fire and at a time of their choosing to achieve a maximum return for their members. Even Australian companies entering Victoria get burned badly let alone a company from New Zealand where we have little cognisant exposure.

The closest analogy I have, for those of us long enough in the tooth, is a comparison to the industrial relations we had here in NZ in the 1980’s. They don’t have compulsory unionism like we did here in NZ, but in Victoria they effectively may as well have.

Of key importance for Ryman is to ensure that the site employment bargaining agreement they have for construction does not roll over into the operation of the village. This could occur immediately or at any time after.

I would also be interested in some feedback from Ryman as to whether the build was on time and budget. Projects in Vic have a history of being over, often 50% over is not at all unusual. Construction labour productivity is often only 30% of that in other states.

The risks are enormous in such a labour dependent sector as aged care, and this is what the analysts and industry commentators are referring too.

I’m very pleased actually that Norah Barlow looked at the Australian market and strategically decided against it. Until proven otherwise my anticipation is that gross margins will be lower in Vic than NZ, either way, Julian Cook will have a good zero cost guinea pig to study at Wheelers Hill.

[BlackPeter]

Hi all.

Your reaction in the last few posts is not unexpected given your interests in Summerset, but what I have given you is the truth.
I do not favour SUM, RYM, MET over each other and there is no slander in my post. I have stuck to the facts. I would like to see the last two years of these awards if they exist, but I can't find them. Surely if they existed they would be well publicised, or at least updated on their own website.

I shall see if I can find the connection I found back in July last year and report back.

There are a couple of other things you should know about this award:

• Only those villages nominated by someone are 'evaluated'
• I can't find an historical campaign aimed at attracting nominations except this one website which I find to be discrete
• There is no stated evaluation criteria
• There is no judges named.
• There is no documented decision making process
• The website itself, any of their publications, and awards themselves do not name a single person, manager, or organiser who you can contact.

I mean, click on http://www.seniors-housing.net and select 'Awards 2012' on the left. Who is this judge? Any committee of such a prestigious award would want the judges name with all his experience up in lights wouldn't they? Something doesn't add up.

As for just how bona fide the independency if this award is doesn't bother me an iota except for one thing and that is it calls into question just how much the CEO or board of Summerset are prepared to bend the truth on whatever they report, and this in turn impacts my level of investment in them.

If there is a rat here, and I certainly smell one, then we should all be aware of it. I have tried to get to the bottom of it and I can't.

MAC, the reason RYM entered Victoria is a simple one… Melbourne demographics.

Interesting allegations. Just fired off emails to seniors-housing as well as to Summerset and asked them for comment. Will share with you if & when I get a response.

discl: hold SUM