IFT - Infratil

**kiora** · 14-05-2024, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by mfd

These grid batteries seem to only have capacity to run full throttle for 2-3 hours once fully charged. Useful for smoothing out demand and production over the day (maybe would have been useful last week?) or as fast response but pretty useless over any longer timeframe.

So they would need to be in series?

**LaserEyeKiwi** · 14-05-2024, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by mfd

These grid batteries seem to only have capacity to run full throttle for 2-3 hours once fully charged. Useful for smoothing out demand and production over the day (maybe would have been useful last week?) or as fast response but pretty useless over any longer timeframe.

yes - that is the exact purpose!

Charge during periods of excess production & low prices, and discharge during periods of peak demand and high prices.

The large battery farms in Australia have both stabilized their grids and also paid for themselves in a few short years due to the massive price arbitrage opportunities.

**warthog** · 14-05-2024, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by LaserEyeKiwi

yes - that is the exact purpose!

Charge during periods of excess production & low prices, and discharge during periods of peak demand and high prices.

The large battery farms in Australia have both stabilized their grids and also paid for themselves in a few short years due to the massive price arbitrage opportunities.

If there are such massive price arbitrage profits, that's great from a supplier perspective but is basically the equivalent for consumers of surge pricing but for power no?

**RTM** · 14-05-2024, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by LaserEyeKiwi

yes - that is the exact purpose!

Charge during periods of excess production & low prices, and discharge during periods of peak demand and high prices.

The large battery farms in Australia have both stabilized their grids and also paid for themselves in a few short years due to the massive price arbitrage opportunities.

Curious, being a boat owner and constantly chasing one tail with batteries, how long do the batteries last do you know ?

**mfd** · 14-05-2024, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by warthog

If there are such massive price arbitrage profits, that's great from a supplier perspective but is basically the equivalent for consumers of surge pricing but for power no?

The arbitrage is doing the opposite of surge pricing. They will bid when supply is cheap (making it a little pricier) and offer when supply is pricey (making it a little cheaper). Acts as a smoothing function on price and supply.

Means that those really expensive bids from, say, a factory with contacted supply deciding to close for a shift and selling back the power, are no longer needed.

**warthog** · 14-05-2024, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by mfd

The arbitrage is doing the opposite of surge pricing. They will bid when supply is cheap (making it a little pricier) and offer when supply is pricey (making it a little cheaper). Acts as a smoothing function on price and supply.

Means that those really expensive bids from, say, a factory with contacted supply deciding to close for a shift and selling back the power, are no longer needed.

Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

A classic arbitrage will take advantage of pricing differences, geographic or time-based for example, in order to purchase low and sell at market. The hog is just wondering if there are periods of significant demand the pricing benefit for consumers (i.e. lower prices) are substantially dictated by competition between those able to remove duration/timing discrepancies. If there is limited competition from these players, the improvement in market efficiency will also be limited, no?

**Ggcc** · 14-05-2024, 04:58 PM

Whatever the discussion in regards to power supply for NZ and storage, this share, right now is a good opportunity for a longterm hold. Their primary future source of income right now is CDC, which coincidentally uses lots of power. I was just talking with people today who find our power expensive. They really need to go to Europe where Gas and Power is fricken expensive. Some good discussions to bring up at the roadshow coming up. I will be going to the one in Napier and will ask a question or two if Necessary.