Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Entrep]

Would giving one race either the North or South Island, and "the others" the remaining island work?

Just trying to come up with solutions to match thinking that all people of New Zealand are not equal.

[dobby41]

You have missed the point entirely. Europeans wrote the Te Reo version.....as a translation of what they had already written in english. There was no confusion. The insult piled on the signatories that they didn't understand what they signed is extraordinary. It certainly wasn't a position supported by Sir Apirana Ngata who is also being crapped upon by the new so called more knowledgeable Maori elites and fawning pakeha.

I don't think I missed the point.
I agree that the English wrote the Te Reo version - the one that most Maori signed - so that's the one that counts!

[mistaTea]

I don't think I missed the point.
I agree that the English wrote the Te Reo version - the one that most Maori signed - so that's the one that counts!

Yeah and even though it is clear that England intended full sovereignty etc…

But that is not what the Te Reo contract says.

And my understanding is that this is what led to the NZ Wars. Some tribes had a very different understanding to what the 3 key articles meant.

And we have to separate what we believe about TOW from what we actually know.

I have been quick to jump on the bandwagon about Maori knowing damn well they were ceding sovereignty and didn’t think they were getting a 50/50 JV with Queen Vic etc etc.

C*ck sure of myself as usual of course.

Yet all of those statements are just beliefs.

I don’t actually KNOW it to be true.

And this is the feeling of unease developing in me. I need to know more about it, not just rely on beliefs I have largely inherited.

How else are we to move forward as a nation and develop enduring solutions? Instead of repeating the cycle.

[Balance]

So why are the Māoris so scared of a debate and discussion on the TOW?

Our way or else violence & civil war is their stance & message.

17% against the rest of NZ - so be it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yeah and even though it is clear that England intended full sovereignty etc…

But that is not what the Te Reo contract says.

And my understanding is that this is what led to the NZ Wars. Some tribes had a very different understanding to what the 3 key articles meant.

And we have to separate what we believe about TOW from what we actually know.

I have been quick to jump on the bandwagon about Maori knowing damn well they were ceding sovereignty and didn’t think they were getting a 50/50 JV with Queen Vic etc etc.

C*ck sure of myself as usual of course.

Yet all of those statements are just beliefs.

I don’t actually KNOW it to be true.

And this is the feeling of unease developing in me. I need to know more about it, not just rely on beliefs I have largely inherited.

How else are we to move forward as a nation and develop enduring solutions? Instead of repeating the cycle.

Have a read of the explanation of Sir Apirana Ngata which he set down in 1922, then consider the reinterpretation that goes on daily by modern day Maori separatists & radicals.

https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scho...-t1-g1-t1.html

[Bjauck]

So why are the Māoris so scared of a debate and discussion on the TOW?

Our way or else violence & civil war is their stance & message.

17% against the rest of NZ - so be it.

The possibility of tyranny from the majority? The majority may be willing to "forget" previous injustices and "happy" for the minority to continue to have worse social outcomes compared to the majority, blaming the minority for their predicament.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yeah and even though it is clear that England intended full sovereignty etc…

But that is not what the Te Reo contract says.

And my understanding is that this is what led to the NZ Wars. Some tribes had a very different understanding to what the 3 key articles meant.

And we have to separate what we believe about TOW from what we actually know.

I have been quick to jump on the bandwagon about Maori knowing damn well they were ceding sovereignty and didn’t think they were getting a 50/50 JV with Queen Vic etc etc.

C*ck sure of myself as usual of course.

Yet all of those statements are just beliefs.

I don’t actually KNOW it to be true.

And this is the feeling of unease developing in me. I need to know more about it, not just rely on beliefs I have largely inherited.

How else are we to move forward as a nation and develop enduring solutions? Instead of repeating the cycle.

1860 – Kohimarama Conference

'The Kohimarama Conference was held in Auckland in July 1860 and was attended by over 200 chiefs mainly from the North Island. It was one of the largest and the most influential Maori gatherings ever held. The conference revealed the nature of Maori comprehension of the Treaty signed 20 years earlier; in fact it was referred to as a covenant between Maori and European, not Maori and the Crown. Some chiefs were afraid the government might use the King Movement in the Waikato to abrogate the Treaty, a threat that had been made by the Governor and argued in favour of a renewed commitment to the Treaty. “Do not consent that the Treaty should be for the Europeans alone, but let us take it for ourselves. Let this meeting be joined to the Treaty of Waitangi, let us urge upon the Government not to withhold it from us”.

The Conference finished with a resolution passed unanimously at the last session. “That this conference takes cognisance of the fact that several chiefs, members thereof, are pledged to each other to do nothing inconsistent with their declared recognition of the Queen’s sovereignty, and of the unions of the two races”. (No partnership with Crown).'

[Logen Ninefingers]

The possibility of tyranny from the majority? The majority may be willing to "forget" previous injustices and "happy" for the minority to continue to have worse social outcomes compared to the majority, blaming the minority for their predicament.

I know the Leftist mindset: when we elect a new right of centre government that is the 'tyranny of the majority', and when we elect a new left of centre government that is 'a glorious demonstration of the miracle that is democracy'.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The possibility of tyranny from the majority? The majority may be willing to "forget" previous injustices and "happy" for the minority to continue to have worse social outcomes compared to the majority, blaming the minority for their predicament.

You've failed to explain how your new 'Maori - Crown co-governance of Aotearoa New Zealand / separatist systems for Maori' arrangement is guaranteed to improve Maori social outcomes. It's just a daft assumption, like how the Ardern government would "do it!", the USSR would be a utopia on earth, communism will be the greatest thing ever if only it's done on a global basis.....the Left are willing to tear down and destroy based on their gut feeling, and it's "oops" if anarchy and / or totalitarianism eventuate instead.

The other head scratcher is how separate systems for Maori would be funded. No doubt from tribal revenues?

[Balance]

The possibility of tyranny from the majority? The majority may be willing to "forget" previous injustices and "happy" for the minority to continue to have worse social outcomes compared to the majority, blaming the minority for their predicament.

What were the treaty settlements about then? And the Waitangi Tribunal?

I do not see any abrogation on the part of the majority in NZ of their responsibilities to redress past wrongs against Maoris. And I believe all fair minded NZers are in total agreement that grevious wrongs and harm had been done against Māoris.

What I do see however is the continuous attempts of Maoris, led by the fat cat Maori elites, to broaden the scope of the Treaty towards separatism. And who are the biggest beneficiaries of the separatism push? The fat cats Maori elite who could not care a stuff about general Maori wellbeing.

They happened to hit the jackpot with Clueless Ardern and now expect all governments to behave like her.